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Any IM which is NOT direct response?

by GordonJ
19 replies
Are Netflix, HBO and other membership sites not on the DR spectrum? Software?

Maybe, Remote Direct Response would be more accurate. Now, there may be some rules or guidelines or just held on to definitions we have about Direct Response...some would argue, it is a Stimulus/Response model and the marketer has to push the Stimulus onto the target's awareness plate.

That makes DR different from searching for a product on Amazon. Or from retail where the prospect goes shopping.

Being old school I was taught (but now question) that a Remote Direct Marketer has to initiate the contact, via some media.

And then it begins. The process, the funnel, the LTV (lifetime value), the cost of acquisition and all that jazz.

This was different than shoppers, at the mall, looking for stuff. Or getting the aroma of Mrs. Fields Cookies wafting their way, and were pulled toward it magnetically, like the popcorn cart too.

The reason I am asking here, is, because I've been approached by a someone who claims ALL Internet Marketing is DIRECT RESPONSE. Even Amazon and Facebook Marketplace, it is a stimulus/response model of a transaction.

IF it were even somewhat to mostly true, then the old rules of finding buyers could be applied.

Target the hungry man (Halbertism) with money to spend, who has bought before and will buy again. Make him an offer he can't refuse (Godfather style?)...sell him a freezer and then sell him a cow, cut up and ready to freeze, and then sell him an oven to cook it in, and sell him the condiments, accouterments, spices and side dishes. Get him to give you names for a reward, some extra ribs...and then start in on his referral.

That sort of thing was the process of many a successful Remote Direct Markter.

Today, influencers, as they are called, deliver numbers of eyeballs. The eyeballs are not solicited or stimulated per se, but find and follow the influencer via social media.

What is beating Remote Direct Response in 2019 in IM?

Any ideas?

GordonJ
#direct #response
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  • Profile picture of the author DABK
    AdSense (when you are the blogger trying to make money by having people click on links). It's still response, but, at least the way I did it, they were clicking to get more info not to buy (or, better said, not to buy from whoever's page they got on by clicking on a link on my site). Yes, those people were trying to sell, but I was not.



    As a matter of fact, the vaguer I was, the more people clicked on links that made me money. When I was setting pages based on direct response (as much as Google allows), I made less money.


    Keep in mind that Google kicks you out if you, in any direct way, encourage people to click on the ads or links.


    (I do concede that the ads, those were made for direct response kind of thing; just not my in-text links. And, no, Google said I could in no way tell people to click on an ad. The ad had to make them do that on its own.)


    And, yes, there was no funnel, no process to do anything with them after they got to my site.
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  • Profile picture of the author savidge4
    Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

    Are Netflix, HBO and other membership sites not on the DR spectrum? Software?

    Maybe, Remote Direct Response would be more accurate. Now, there may be some rules or guidelines or just held on to definitions we have about Direct Response...some would argue, it is a Stimulus/Response model and the marketer has to push the Stimulus onto the target's awareness plate.

    That makes DR different from searching for a product on Amazon. Or from retail where the prospect goes shopping.

    Being old school I was taught (but now question) that a Remote Direct Marketer has to initiate the contact, via some media.

    And then it begins. The process, the funnel, the LTV (lifetime value), the cost of acquisition and all that jazz.

    This was different than shoppers, at the mall, looking for stuff. Or getting the aroma of Mrs. Fields Cookies wafting their way, and were pulled toward it magnetically, like the popcorn cart too.

    The reason I am asking here, is, because I've been approached by a someone who claims ALL Internet Marketing is DIRECT RESPONSE. Even Amazon and Facebook Marketplace, it is a stimulus/response model of a transaction.

    IF it were even somewhat to mostly true, then the old rules of finding buyers could be applied.

    Target the hungry man (Halbertism) with money to spend, who has bought before and will buy again. Make him an offer he can't refuse (Godfather style?)...sell him a freezer and then sell him a cow, cut up and ready to freeze, and then sell him an oven to cook it in, and sell him the condiments, accouterments, spices and side dishes. Get him to give you names for a reward, some extra ribs...and then start in on his referral.

    That sort of thing was the process of many a successful Remote Direct Markter.

    Today, influencers, as they are called, deliver numbers of eyeballs. The eyeballs are not solicited or stimulated per se, but find and follow the influencer via social media.

    What is beating Remote Direct Response in 2019 in IM?

    Any ideas?

    GordonJ
    THIS is interesting... I am wanting to throw a wrench in some of this... I think to some extent it depends on the platform? eBay as an example... people come to eBay knowing what they want, and they do a search. The SELLER is then left with understanding how to increase their products search rank, and how to influence a click with the Title Price, and Image presented - NONE of this requires drawing outside traffic.

    Facebook Marketplace is very much the same thing. Items are listed by "Popular" AND by date listed ( or updated - only once every 7 days ) And again Title, Price, and Picture help influence a click.

    Amazon is different. Position is dependent apon the ability of the SELLER to produce sales. IE to get a top 5 position you have to create traffic to YOUR listing and create sales. With increase sales you get better increased position in search rank - creating the more direct search and click based on Title, Price, and Image.

    I can tell you even with the eBay model you CAN use direct marketing and throw outside traffic towards your item, and if the buyer that clicks your link ( specific link ) outside of eBay BUYS... you are rewarded with no eBay sales fee. ( 10% )

    Now to go so far as to say that the Title, Price, and Picture would be "Remote Direct Marketing" Im not so sure about that... If the buyer wants Nike <insert model> mens size 10 shoes and your Title, Price, and Picture create the click is that really the result of marketing? I still think the "Marketing" aspect of this falls to the initial search, and then Optimizing for Click thru rate is YES, marketing, but at that point it is a captive audience -

    So I would call this more "Intent Based Marketing" than I would "Remote Direct marketing".

    So where things get interesting is Platforms where you are not subject to built in traffic. YOU the Seller have to create the traffic. The SELLER has to create content to gain rank in search engines. The SELLER has to create and run ads. The SELLER has to create a social presents to push traffic from etc etc etc. Even the use of an influencer is the SELLER reaching out to reach a group of people, and THIS is advertising.

    The eBay and Marketplace examples, are the opposite. You are listing within a platform that has existing traffic with some amount of fair play - or at least a not so known, but learnable set of rules that assists in Listing higher in search to increase the odds of selling your products.

    So now let me throw this at you.. my Wife sells items on Amazon. I personally go and search for affiliate sites that COULD be listing her products but don't. I actually offer incentives to the site owners to include our products on their sites.

    And now lets look at all of this as a whole. What is the commonality of all of it? Basically having your product / service in the right place at the right time. Products are without question easier to work with. The buyer cycle is far wider - 7 steps. Vs a Service related buyers cycle that may be 3 or 4 steps.

    Service have a tendency of being strictly Direct sales or Direct Response, and there are STILL cases in the modern world where branding is effective. With Products... Being in a position to sell what is already branded is Optimal - and then you are only having to match a buyers intent. OR if you decide to bring a product to market - it wont be found by "Brand" but can still draw traffic based on "Intent"

    The GREATEST take away from MY perspective in selling in 2019 and beyond is understanding INTENT - and how best to match / optimize your offerings to the buyer. One thing to keep in mind here... Be it Amazon, or eBay, or Facebook, or Etsy, or AliExpress or Craigslist for that matter... they ALL are search engines first and for most.

    SEO ( bad acronym I know ) and a marketers understanding of it is REALLY a big deal. How each of these platforms work, and how to increase your position is CRITICAL in current day success.
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

      THIS is interesting... I am wanting to throw a wrench in some of this... I think to some extent it depends on the platform? eBay as an example... people come to eBay knowing what they want, and they do a search. The SELLER is then left with understanding how to increase their products search rank, and how to influence a click with the Title Price, and Image presented - NONE of this requires drawing outside traffic.

      Facebook Marketplace is very much the same thing. Items are listed by "Popular" AND by date listed ( or updated - only once every 7 days ) And again Title, Price, and Picture help influence a click.

      Amazon is different. Position is dependent apon the ability of the SELLER to produce sales. IE to get a top 5 position you have to create traffic to YOUR listing and create sales. With increase sales you get better increased position in search rank - creating the more direct search and click based on Title, Price, and Image.

      I can tell you even with the eBay model you CAN use direct marketing and throw outside traffic towards your item, and if the buyer that clicks your link ( specific link ) outside of eBay BUYS... you are rewarded with no eBay sales fee. ( 10% )

      Now to go so far as to say that the Title, Price, and Picture would be "Remote Direct Marketing" Im not so sure about that... If the buyer wants Nike <insert model> mens size 10 shoes and your Title, Price, and Picture create the click is that really the result of marketing? I still think the "Marketing" aspect of this falls to the initial search, and then Optimizing for Click thru rate is YES, marketing, but at that point it is a captive audience -

      So I would call this more "Intent Based Marketing" than I would "Remote Direct marketing".

      So where things get interesting is Platforms where you are not subject to built in traffic. YOU the Seller have to create the traffic. The SELLER has to create content to gain rank in search engines. The SELLER has to create and run ads. The SELLER has to create a social presents to push traffic from etc etc etc. Even the use of an influencer is the SELLER reaching out to reach a group of people, and THIS is advertising.

      The eBay and Marketplace examples, are the opposite. You are listing within a platform that has existing traffic with some amount of fair play - or at least a not so known, but learnable set of rules that assists in Listing higher in search to increase the odds of selling your products.

      So now let me throw this at you.. my Wife sells items on Amazon. I personally go and search for affiliate sites that COULD be listing her products but don't. I actually offer incentives to the site owners to include our products on their sites.

      And now lets look at all of this as a whole. What is the commonality of all of it? Basically having your product / service in the right place at the right time. Products are without question easier to work with. The buyer cycle is far wider - 7 steps. Vs a Service related buyers cycle that may be 3 or 4 steps.

      Service have a tendency of being strictly Direct sales or Direct Response, and there are STILL cases in the modern world where branding is effective. With Products... Being in a position to sell what is already branded is Optimal - and then you are only having to match a buyers intent. OR if you decide to bring a product to market - it wont be found by "Brand" but can still draw traffic based on "Intent"

      The GREATEST take away from MY perspective in selling in 2019 and beyond is understanding INTENT - and how best to match / optimize your offerings to the buyer. One thing to keep in mind here... Be it Amazon, or eBay, or Facebook, or Etsy, or AliExpress or Craigslist for that matter... they ALL are search engines first and for most.

      SEO ( bad acronym I know ) and a marketers understanding of it is REALLY a big deal. How each of these platforms work, and how to increase your position is CRITICAL in current day success.
      Originally Posted by DABK View Post

      AdSense (when you are the blogger trying to make money by having people click on links). It's still response, but, at least the way I did it, they were clicking to get more info not to buy (or, better said, not to buy from whoever's page they got on by clicking on a link on my site). Yes, those people were trying to sell, but I was not.



      As a matter of fact, the vaguer I was, the more people clicked on links that made me money. When I was setting pages based on direct response (as much as Google allows), I made less money.


      Keep in mind that Google kicks you out if you, in any direct way, encourage people to click on the ads or links.


      (I do concede that the ads, those were made for direct response kind of thing; just not my in-text links. And, no, Google said I could in no way tell people to click on an ad. The ad had to make them do that on its own.)


      And, yes, there was no funnel, no process to do anything with them after they got to my site.
      Thank you both for responding. I'm just throwing mud against the wall, and you both have given a lot of food for thought.

      Let me give you my two old world analogies. The Mall and the Yellow Pages. And of course this is a very simplistic view of things, seeing as I'm an old simpleton to begin with. So, the mall is where we used to go to shop, either for a specific thing or to browse.

      The Yellow Pages would be our first SEARCH for services or other things we might want or need.

      I see Facebook Marketplace, eBay, Craigslist, and local sites as the Mall type of "shopping". Around the malls of yesteryear, a strip of shopping and eateries would spring up and all was well with the world of commerce. Just as those retailers had to compete so do the sellers on these sites. Branding was a big deal, SEARS, JC Penney, Macy's etc. were anchors, but many smaller stores competed successfully.

      Today, shoppers probably use the big four, Amazon, Google Shopping (or Bing), eBay and Facebook Marketplace, those anchor the Internet and are the first destination of the guy wanting the latest Nike shoe or cell phone. There are boutique shops, so to speak, like Etsy and Pinterest, where smaller more customized products are sold, these akin to the specialty stores or kiosks in the mall.

      Google and Bing, maybe Yahoo, are the Yellow Pages, where we would go to find the plumber, the dentist, or the lawyer. And instead of full page ads, the FIRST PAGE of service providers will probably get the most business.

      But for the wrenches, and there may come a many flying into this idea, which is good, I'm trying to flesh out an idea.

      Yes, I agree with the idea it is ALL about INTENT and Search, except where there is the click which was stumbled upon, this like Mrs. Fields cookies fresh from the oven at the mall or the popcorn stand, both of which were magnetic, and the popcorn stand was to me, the IDEAL absentee owned business. So too thought the mall owner, who owned the popcorn stand, employed one person a shift and sold only one item, he confessed it was a real CASH cow. I said, I knew it was cause it sucked dollars from my pocket like a Claude sold vacuum cleaner.

      What would be that popcorn machine equivalent online? It is the one thing I'm looking for.

      There is at the root of it all a transaction, an exchange of value between two or more entities. Advertising and marketing, be it branding or active, is for bringing them into the store, there still has to be a transaction after that.

      If they are actively shopping or searching for something specific, then you have to get their attention, and maybe like Old SEARS having a sale will attract them into your store, or maybe being the only game in town, the way Sam Walton built Walmart, is a viable way too. I don't know, but the Internet is a fun and affordable way to test out platforms, be it building an anchor store or a specialty shop, or selling popcorn...

      Or maybe, like Old Man Buchholzer did, build the mall, and lease it out and cherry pick the good spots for yourself.

      A younger person today has so much opportunity and so much to work with, you all should be excited, and to have the people like savidge4 and DABK and the other 26 here at the WF, offline forum is a blessing.

      NOW, as a demo specialist, and giving out samples as a model, if I stood next to the popcorn stand and handed out little sample bags, would that increase profits?

      AND, as part of the discussion, would it be worth five years of time to go in a totally different direction, more toward a TOLL position, where one owns the product and has buyers who simply REORDER because you have NO competition, if they need your product, and you are the only supply of it, would that be an alternative to the funnel building of the beginner?

      Is it because IM has such a low cost entry point that millions take to it, and most, or at least many of them (WF being the mirror) struggle for years before making any substantial money? KNOWLEDGE takes time to acquire and money can accelerate that somewhat, but then, it goes to the INTENT of the seller, the intent of the marketer before any of the platforms or strategies or techniques can be used.

      I just want to make money. Says the masses.

      And the IM gurus were born. But the successful marketers begin with their own intent or purpose and choose a path which best suits them.

      GordonJ
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  • Profile picture of the author savidge4
    Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

    like Mrs. Fields cookies fresh from the oven at the mall or the popcorn stand, both of which were magnetic, and the popcorn stand was to me, the IDEAL absentee owned business. So too thought the mall owner, who owned the popcorn stand, employed one person a shift and sold only one item, he confessed it was a real CASH cow.
    Look at your examples and these can not be duplicated online.. the sense of smell has been removed from the equation. Enter the answer to this using the example of Cologne and Perfume. En mass people are no longer going to the malls of yesteryear... but yet they want to know what something smells like before they buy - enter product services like SCENTBOX. Get a new scent every month, and then order the one or ones you like.

    Because it is what I do best... let me throw some data your way. Last year, 87% of online purchases began with search. 28% of that 87% started specifically on a sales platform IE eBay or Amazon. The 28% was a HUGE increase from the year before. ( here in lies my push on this forum and in life for using eBay as a sales platform.

    To go even a bit deeper in this 46% of shoppers still prefer physically buying the item. And then breaking down the additional percentages you have 35% that prefer desktop / laptop to make online purchases and only 18% buying mobile. ( there is a 3% +/- on these numbers )

    Where things get REAL interesting is something in the magnitude of 71% ( on average ) of buyers use mobile devices in stores. ( I'm not a big fan of this number - I don't see it in real time in stores myself ) This mobile use in the brick and mortar world increases dramatically in the 18 to 44 age bracket, jumping to 83%. ( I agree, that within this age group there is a in store increase that I have seen, but still don't exactly agree with the numbers )

    Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

    What would be that popcorn machine equivalent online? It is the one thing I'm looking for.
    I think the simple answer is there isn't one. Well, let me rephrase that, there is the opportunity, it is a matter of watching and matching trends. Not so much a set it and forget it type of business model. This becomes more of a being in the right place at the right time with the right product - OR less by chance oriented, understanding the markets current INTENT and matching the intent with an offer.

    Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

    Is it because IM has such a low cost entry point that millions take to it, and most, or at least many of them (WF being the mirror) struggle for years before making any substantial money?
    Using WF as the mirror... figuring there is 1,000,000 member here - 999,900 of them are trying to sell "information" Im going to be frank with my opinion here.. I think that's flat out stupid in 999,800 of those cases. We literally are living in the information age.. Information is every where and its FREE.

    I don' need to buy a course on Keto ( yes, i know people will buy it ) I can search everything I need to know without buying anything. I don't need to buy a course on SEO, I can search anything I need to know. I don't need to buy a course on how to build a WordPress website, I can search everything I need to know. SELLING information does NOT meet the end users INTENT - in a world that has information at our fingertips.

    I toy with the idea of creating an information based product. I could easily develop a course on eBay... or Creating Content... or SEO... or CRO and leverage my authority that I have built on this forum. But lets be honest here, how much would I sell? 1000 units? at what $29?

    The contrast... I made $6000 as in profited $6000 in one month selling used items on eBay expending 60 hours of my time. So I made $100 per hour ( and the education for my son is literally priceless ) How much time would be involved in selling an information product? The site, the content, the funnel, the after purchase support the this the that and the other. Information is simply not a smart business model.

    And with that bold statement, there are the exceptions... Claude's "Last" effort in life ( LOL ) IS worth the effort, and well worth the final price. BUT, I can work I 730 hours in a year to Net over $100,000 - how much time will be involved in Claude creating and then selling 500 units? I think there comes a point as an entrepreneur, you have to look at things like this.

    And please don't confuse me as saying Claude is headed in the wrong direction... I mention he is an exception. His product is the result of his lifes work - it matches his INTENT and as a sale person it is a matter of finding the buyers with the same intent.

    Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

    AND, as part of the discussion, would it be worth five years of time to go in a totally different direction, more toward a TOLL position, where one owns the product and has buyers who simply REORDER because you have NO competition, if they need your product, and you are the only supply of it, would that be an alternative to the funnel building of the beginner?
    Is it worth the time? I suggest the answer is NO. "NO competition" is a red flag in a INTENT based market. And let me soften that up a bit, for ME the answer would be no. My "Lifes Work" has been a combination of selling product and services, and I prefer services that are product centric - meaning I get paid to provide services that sell other peoples products. My years have found that competition is actually your friend, and not your enemy. I don't think there is such things as to much, but there is without question a point where there is to little.

    Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

    I just want to make money. Says the masses.
    My answer to this is to stop trying to invent wheels... Start paying attention to Buyers Intent... and then buy low and sell high. BASIC economics. and regardless of platform this is a business model that has worked since the beginning of time, and will continue to work until the end of time.
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

      Look at your examples and these can not be duplicated online.. the sense of smell has been removed from the equation. Enter the answer to this using the example of Cologne and Perfume. En mass people are no longer going to the malls of yesteryear... but yet they want to know what something smells like before they buy - enter product services like SCENTBOX. Get a new scent every month, and then order the one or ones you like.

      Because it is what I do best... let me throw some data your way. Last year, 87% of online purchases began with search. 28% of that 87% started specifically on a sales platform IE eBay or Amazon. The 28% was a HUGE increase from the year before. ( here in lies my push on this forum and in life for using eBay as a sales platform.

      To go even a bit deeper in this 46% of shoppers still prefer physically buying the item. And then breaking down the additional percentages you have 35% that prefer desktop / laptop to make online purchases and only 18% buying mobile. ( there is a 3% +/- on these numbers )

      Where things get REAL interesting is something in the magnitude of 71% ( on average ) of buyers use mobile devices in stores. ( I'm not a big fan of this number - I don't see it in real time in stores myself ) This mobile use in the brick and mortar world increases dramatically in the 18 to 44 age bracket, jumping to 83%. ( I agree, that within this age group there is a in store increase that I have seen, but still don't exactly agree with the numbers )

      I think the simple answer is there isn't one. Well, let me rephrase that, there is the opportunity, it is a matter of watching and matching trends. Not so much a set it and forget it type of business model. This becomes more of a being in the right place at the right time with the right product - OR less by chance oriented, understanding the markets current INTENT and matching the intent with an offer.

      Using WF as the mirror... figuring there is 1,000,000 member here - 999,900 of them are trying to sell "information" Im going to be frank with my opinion here.. I think that's flat out stupid in 999,800 of those cases. We literally are living in the information age.. Information is every where and its FREE.

      I don' need to buy a course on Keto ( yes, i know people will buy it ) I can search everything I need to know without buying anything. I don't need to buy a course on SEO, I can search anything I need to know. I don't need to buy a course on how to build a WordPress website, I can search everything I need to know. SELLING information does NOT meet the end users INTENT - in a world that has information at our fingertips.

      I toy with the idea of creating an information based product. I could easily develop a course on eBay... or Creating Content... or SEO... or CRO and leverage my authority that I have built on this forum. But lets be honest here, how much would I sell? 1000 units? at what $29?

      The contrast... I made $6000 as in profited $6000 in one month selling used items on eBay expending 60 hours of my time. So I made $100 per hour ( and the education for my son is literally priceless ) How much time would be involved in selling an information product? The site, the content, the funnel, the after purchase support the this the that and the other. Information is simply not a smart business model.

      And with that bold statement, there are the exceptions... Claude's "Last" effort in life ( LOL ) IS worth the effort, and well worth the final price. BUT, I can work I 730 hours in a year to Net over $100,000 - how much time will be involved in Claude creating and then selling 500 units? I think there comes a point as an entrepreneur, you have to look at things like this.

      And please don't confuse me as saying Claude is headed in the wrong direction... I mention he is an exception. His product is the result of his lifes work - it matches his INTENT and as a sale person it is a matter of finding the buyers with the same intent.

      Is it worth the time? I suggest the answer is NO. "NO competition" is a red flag in a INTENT based market. And let me soften that up a bit, for ME the answer would be no. My "Lifes Work" has been a combination of selling product and services, and I prefer services that are product centric - meaning I get paid to provide services that sell other peoples products. My years have found that competition is actually your friend, and not your enemy. I don't think there is such things as to much, but there is without question a point where there is to little.

      My answer to this is to stop trying to invent wheels... Start paying attention to Buyers Intent... and then buy low and sell high. BASIC economics. and regardless of platform this is a business model that has worked since the beginning of time, and will continue to work until the end of time.
      I wish you weren't so busy, and would offer a MasterClass so to speak on your data collecting and how to use it, pure gold man, pure gold. And a little math, cause a little is all I can do. 1000 people, looking for something. 870 of those began with a search.

      280 of those began their search on eBay or Facebook, leaving 590 who must have used one of the other search engines. And knowing this data, I would think gives the Remote Direct Marketer an advantage over those less schooled in the use of math to figure customer acquisition, lifetime value, break even, etc. The selling of any product or service will probably benefit an experienced Remote Direct Marketer, probably making the study of the subject a part of an overall education for one's business. And that is INFORMATION which can be easily and quickly created and sold on auto pilot or as close to an absentee business as the popcorn stand.

      As for WF, the 99.99% shouldn't do info products because they have nothing to say, nothing to add, they bring nothing to the table. Which makes affiliate marketing so popular in the beginner's game, where a ready made product is available, and that includes the Amazon affiliate types too, albeit the success has the experience and education, and probably bring some business experience with them.

      TIME and effort, as you point out, frequently gets left out of the bottom line equations and we see how a lifetime of work, more for the sake of legacy as much as an intended income, although it could be a bump and even quick cash...but up against the time it takes to create it, an hourly wage which most of us wouldn't accept.

      Choosing to create information for a given market still can be a fast way to quick cash. We took about 6 days to write and video the making of THE HEADLIGHT CLEANING MANUAL, and then grossed over 30,000 dollars in the first 27 days it was sold. So the time vs the Return On Time-Investment was decent enough.

      And if one has a list of buyers, selling lower cost info products becomes pretty automatic if you maintain respect for the list, and do NOT try to have a funnel. We've done OK with a small list of just over 5k buyers, who are offered 5 or 6 low cost products a year, and with a substantial % of knee jerk, automatic order results have proven to work and I think because we don't try to take them down a funnel, extract more from them and deliver value the buy rate is so significant. We whittled down a list of over 15k buyers to the golden 4k, who simply say yes to whatever we offer. I like that model it has worked for us for over 20 years.

      So, I still like information and paper and ink products, but it does help if you have something to say and a group to say it to.

      Now about spending TIME to get a toll position. Here are some interesting facts.

      From FORBES, the highest paid dead celebrities of 2018 were:

      Michael Jackson. 400M
      Elvis Presley. 40M
      Arnold Palmer 35M
      Charles Schulz 34M
      Bob Marley 23M
      Dr. Seuss 16M
      Hugh Hefner 15M
      Marilyn Monroe 14M
      Prince 13M
      John Lennon 12M
      XXXTentacion 11M
      Bettie Page 7 M.

      I think it safe to say that Bettie Page, who died in 2008 at 85 earned more than all but the elite Internet Marketers did in 2018. Having a TOLL position, although these based on TALENT, which most of us lack, is still possible via acquisition. Whomever controls the Intellectual Property in these cases did pretty well for themselves without doing too much, so they I think have the POPCORN stand as well.

      Outside of TALENT, here are 3 real life examples of TOLL POSITIONS, one an old timey Remote Direct Marketer that old guys know, HARVEY BRODY, who has sold over 125+ million units of one product he owns and controls, the ZOOM SPOUT OILER, over the last 55 years. He also has sold millions of units of an aerosol spray grip. Harvey has just over 100 customers, all on auto reorder.

      The next two I can't name, but a little search can tell you if interested.

      One a guy in Missouri, who has the TOLL position of control over a Brand Name and a specialty product. He obtained exclusive North American Rights, and then he licensed those to marketers, one in particular, who has sold over a BILLION dollars of the products under the license. The MO guy just collects his small % from every sale made, and has put several million into his bank account, whilst doing nothing more than reading sales reports. It may be the best example of a TOLL position any regular person could duplicate.

      Then, there is a local guy, I went to high school with. He's a chemist. Owns several patents on cleaning chemicals. Leases them out, and also helps run the family business, one of the largest cleaning supply companies in the country. Millions of urinals use urinal cakes, and there is a person behind the manufacturer, the distributor, and even the patent owner...and being all of those things, he has accumulated great wealth.

      Thanks for the discussion, we have such tremendous opportunity today and your son is getting a Harvard MBA education which he can use throughout his life.

      GordonJ
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  • Profile picture of the author max5ty
    Everything should be direct response. It could be wanting someone to contact you or creating an emotion.

    Change is good. The popcorn stands that used to be helped create the way for bigger and better businesses.

    If you can't appreciate change and the new opportunities, you'll still be stuck trying to sell websites to business owners.

    The '90s and early 2000s had every wannabe entrepreneur selling websites...then it was mobile websites. Now they're all begging for work.

    A small few now realize they don't want to sell websites. Actually they hope you have a site and they'll show you how with a simple little known twist you can make it work and outsell your bricks and mortar store.

    Email is all but dead...but there's some smart cookies that will show you how to add a secret move to it that will get you 80 plus percent open rates.

    Without change, new millionaires aren't made.

    We like change and embrace it.
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

      Everything should be direct response. It could be wanting someone to contact you or creating an emotion.

      Change is good. The popcorn stands that used to be helped create the way for bigger and better businesses.

      If you can't appreciate change and the new opportunities, you'll still be stuck trying to sell websites to business owners.

      The '90s and early 2000s had every wannabe entrepreneur selling websites...then it was mobile websites. Now they're all begging for work.

      A small few now realize they don't want to sell websites. Actually they hope you have a site and they'll show you how with a simple little known twist you can make it work and outsell your bricks and mortar store.

      Email is all but dead...but there's some smart cookies that will show you how to add a secret move to it that will get you 80 plus percent open rates.

      Without change, new millionaires aren't made.

      We like change and embrace it.
      Loves me some "secret moves" and "a simple little known twist", Max5ty, you're copywriting is shining through.

      I agree with the embracing of change, but at the same time, there are those things which don't change and can be still lucrative endeavors. We all eat. And snack foods are soaring, at an all time high reflected perhaps in the diabetes pandemic.

      Someone has to make the donuts. Because the desire and want isn't going to change. Little Debbie snacks have gone from a few feet of shelf space to it's very own end cap on thousands of convenience stores in the last decade alone. As great as Starbucks does, so too is the coffee counter at CircleK, 711, and convenient stores, gas stations getting their daily use.

      I totally agree with embracing change, tracking trends, knowing numbers and using data but I keep one old foot in the old world of the PARADE OF LIFE, where the journey doesn't change, just the gadgets and things of the time period. Birth, growth, death. All evergreen, and probably in our lifetime, not much change. If we get to the point, which is doubtful today, where life is extended by years and years, then maybe things will be different.

      But for now, I'll sell drapes and curtains for the nursery, posters for the teen walls, shoes to the high schooler and college crowd. Wedding dresses and entertainment, all the way to false teeth (dentures)...and every step along the way of that arc between the crib and the casket isn't going to change.

      So I like change, embrace it, have the latest gadgets ready, and AT THE SAME TIME, embrace the old tested and proven ways of the last millennium.

      GordonJ
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  • Profile picture of the author savidge4
    Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

    I wish you weren't so busy, and would offer a MasterClass so to speak on your data collecting and how to use it, pure gold man, pure gold. And a little math, cause a little is all I can do. 1000 people, looking for something. 870 of those began with a search.

    280 of those began their search on eBay or Facebook, leaving 590 who must have used one of the other search engines. And knowing this data, I would think gives the Remote Direct Marketer an advantage over those less schooled in the use of math to figure customer acquisition, lifetime value, break even, etc.
    But this is just the beginning of the math actually... lets go a step further shall we? Out of a 1000 as you mention we have 590 using search engines and 280 using sales platforms.

    Lets break down the sales platforms first. eBay as an example has 20% ( +/- ) market share. that leaves 56 users per 1000 are using eBay.

    Now let separate the 590 search traffic. Google as an example has 90% ( +/- ) market share. that leaves 530 users per 1000 using Google.

    Now lets throw in some historical knowledge / data. In 2015 eBay sold PayPal. Until early 2019 PayPal was the only option for payment on the eBay system. eBay went to what they call their "Managed Payment" system which now includes PayPal as well as Google Pay, Apple Pay, and direct credit / debit card payments.

    Basically what has happened is eBay has separated from an exclusive payment system to a fairly inclusive payment system. Amazon as an example is still on the exclusive side.

    So how does this translate in the "real world"? Payments options are payment options right? uh wrong... Look at the players eBay has set in motion... Lets look specifically at Google pay ( 530 users per 1000 buying searches ) NOW, look at the money flow - and then do a search on Google for say " Salvatore Ferragamo dress shirt "

    Here is what you will notice... eBay no longer pays for listings in the paid "shopping" section. eBay in general will list at the least one listing in the top 10 on most item specific searches ( buyer keyword )

    It is in Googles best interest to point traffic towards eBay in an effort to collect a percentage of sales using Google Pay. So to #1 understand the numbers, #2 Understand the history as a whole, #3 follow the money, and #4 understand where there is a point of leverage - turns splitting traffic 530 for a Google search and 56 for a eBay search to an overall 58.6% ( +/- ) opportunity your listing will be seen. Mathematically making the combo of eBay and Google the best bet in selling product on the internet.

    And the BEST part in this... NO EFFORT on your part as a seller to create the traffic. May not be a "Toll Position" but it is without question a position anyone selling anything online that they can get their little physical hands on should be placing themselves in.

    In terms of a master class... hmmm I could find the time LOL BUT, its really not that complicated. Some pointed search on Google can provide a lot more than one thinks.

    Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

    As for WF, the 99.99% shouldn't do info products because they have nothing to say, nothing to add, they bring nothing to the table. Which makes affiliate marketing so popular in the beginner's game, where a ready made product is available
    I understand what you are saying, but is one option really better than the other? What may be "Popular" doesn't make it "Right" nor does it make it successful. The statement " shouldn't do info products because they have nothing to say, nothing to add, they bring nothing to the table " Actually applies in both instances.

    Anyone can say ok I know nothing about X and then decide ok I will go onto whatever affiliate program site and pick a product based more on its "Numbers" than the knowledge one might have on the topic. They build a site and oh.. wait they now have to create content to put on there.. and then they have to build a funnel to sell the item and have a piece of content to give away.. and then they have to create a mailing sequence that sells the item ( more content )

    99.9% never buy the product they are going to sell. They have no clue what is actually in the program they are selling. They have no clue what appropriate pre selling content may look like. They have no business in creating content on the topic or even selling a product based on the topic. Experience / a Story goes a L O N G way in selling products, be it physical or information based.

    I say " Education is the Foundation to Success " And as I have stated above Information / educational material is plentiful beyond our wildest imagination. There is no reason in todays information age that anyone should be down right stupid on a topic they are trying to sell - NONE. The ONLY reason that I can think of is out right laziness ( not something I am fond of LOL )

    Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

    TOLL POSITION
    Now that I better understand the term... I have 3 to 4 such pillars. Real Estate and The Stock Market are my biggest 2. Literally making money while I sleep - The money is now working for me, and I am not working for the money.

    #3 and reaching into #4 for me is the development of startup business'. I have been working a few years now on a Medical start-up that is making some great strides and we are getting to a point of buy out ( that was the end goal from inception ) At this point its not a matter of IF, but when, and for how much - which sitting in my seat is a very good thing.

    #4 falls on a bucket list goal I have of creating and taking a business to IPO. At 50 Something I have realized that I am personally not going to get there. I have realized that I don't have the "Complete" foundation to do this.. but have key elements needed to do this within a partnership. I very much dislike saying this here on the forum, but I invest ( Angel ) in concepts, Ideas, and business' I see the potential in.

    I am involved in 3 right now that truly have some amount of potential. 2 of them are AI based type ventures and the other is a product based venture. The obvious long term of this type of thing falls in line with what you are suggesting. - but the buy out model has its merits as well.

    And the end of the day its about money - doing what you love in obtaining it always helps - and with that there is the rub. Chasing Dollars will only get you so far. Chasing what is of interest for you - that translates to dollars is key.
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      savidge4,
      One of the best things you have offered to us is the BUILD IT TO SELL it model, and you speak from experience too. You are appreciated, and I have more to say on this, but I'm going to do some eBay homework and take Veteran's Day to contact some old Submarine buddies I served with, we're getting up there now, and tomorrow isn't promised to any of us.

      Thank you savidge4 for your thoughtful replies and for giving us, in effect, a Master Class in understanding the math of search and profit.

      GordonJ

      PS. Veteran's Day in USA, here is my playlist, only one.
      https://youtu.be/PFCekeoSTwg
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

      But this is just the beginning of the math actually...
      savidge4,

      Feel free to disregard this, but, it would be appreciated if you could give us an idea about the math of creating a business to sell it off, quickly, one to two years, and would net 1M dollars. It isn't overly ambitious, I know, but put your investor hat on and play Mark Cuban or any of the sharks for a moment. Please?

      So, today, starting from scratch I want to start a business, the goal is in 24 months to sell it off for a 1M net. Can it be done? What would the numbers look like, monthly sales, number of customers, etc.

      We know you are developing a medical product, but that is probably a field that takes a lot of time, isn't it? We've seen some fast growing APPS and "kids" like Nick D'Aloisio who sold his app to Yahoo for 30 million, and other fast sold apps.

      Is that a field you would look into with the above goals in mind?

      There are a reported number of over 220 publishers on Apple and Android who have done over a million dollars, and some of those in months.

      Do you have any ideas, or input on the idea of a fast start-up to sell off in 2 years with a 1M net? Or even if we DOWN scale it, and sell it off for a measly 250k, or am I thinking too small?

      GordonJ
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      • Profile picture of the author savidge4
        Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

        savidge4,

        Feel free to disregard this, but, it would be appreciated if you could give us an idea about the math of creating a business to sell it off, quickly, one to two years, and would net 1M dollars. It isn't overly ambitious, I know, but put your investor hat on and play Mark Cuban or any of the sharks for a moment. Please?

        So, today, starting from scratch I want to start a business, the goal is in 24 months to sell it off for a 1M net. Can it be done? What would the numbers look like, monthly sales, number of customers, etc.

        We know you are developing a medical product, but that is probably a field that takes a lot of time, isn't it? We've seen some fast growing APPS and "kids" like Nick D'Aloisio who sold his app to Yahoo for 30 million, and other fast sold apps.

        Is that a field you would look into with the above goals in mind?

        There are a reported number of over 220 publishers on Apple and Android who have done over a million dollars, and some of those in months.

        Do you have any ideas, or input on the idea of a fast start-up to sell off in 2 years with a 1M net? Or even if we DOWN scale it, and sell it off for a measly 250k, or am I thinking too small?

        GordonJ
        I have wondered when you were going to slip this in lol. With a lot of things that I do, they are very easy / borderline simple... but can be a pain in the tail end to keep up with. In this case the hardest part is the amount of control needed to follow through with this.

        So to select a business.. Services work VERY well with this. Be it SEO / Lead Gen, or Web design, or Large Format printing or whatever else.

        Onboarding is the absolute secret - there is a bit more to it than just that and Ill get there, but creating a just short of fail proof onboarding process and dedicating the time to do it, even when things get to scale is critical.

        A GREAT example this thread: https://www.warriorforum.com/offline...-seo-work.html the young man is talking about doing local SEO work. 4 hours a month per client ( which in this case is about right ) so the work itself is scalable - you could grow this to down right silly numbers of clients with minimal employment base.

        Look specifically at the numbers I propose to the OP as Possible vs the Numbers I provide for the same service I am doing right now and have been for approaching a 2 year period. 15K a month vs 300K+ THIS is incremental growth at scale.

        So the "Secret" is incremental growth - down at the MONTH level. you want 10% growth month over month over month over month. At the end of a years time ( once the numbers scale a bit ) you end up with 100% ( +/- ) growth YEAR over YEAR. Repeat this for 2 years.. and then put your business up for sale.. value increases dramatically

        A 2 year history of 10% growth by month and 100% year over year says what to value across the next 4 to 5 years? In 2 years time you develop a business that Grosses $100,000 the following year to $200,000, At this point valuation would look something like 400,000 to 800,000 to 1,600,000 to 3,200,000 across 4 years of growth. and we could be generous and depreciate 50% of that number and you are left with a business that very plausibly could be evaluated at 1.6 Million dollars - For a SERVICE no less.

        The largest hurdle in his model is the desire to grow grow and grow. 100% month over month this month, and then 10% the next and then a dry spell the month after that.. etc.

        Controlling Growth is counter intuitive. Once you reach a months cap, you STOP. You then start stacking work for the following month and the month after and so on to a point where you are BOOKED 2 and 3 months out for NEW onboards - Consistently growing 10% a month - NO more and NO less.

        Bring this into Internet marketing of a product... Things get a bit more complicated. As much as you are controlling sales... your not. But even with this you have say a landing page that performs well vs one that does not. IE faucet on to get to your 10% in a month vs faucet off when you have reached your limit - tanking sales for the sake of numbers ( hard concept to swallow for most )

        Understanding this you can see where a short term contract service plays very well. Like I suggested in the other thread I implement 3 month contracts. I do this with My CRO service as well. Turn over allows for a greater amount of control.. more work onboarding but less threat of losing clients and basically screwing your needed growth direction.

        To start the incremental growth is shear number of clients, But as you gain traction you can actually start reducing client base in trade for an increase in the cost of service provided - still giving you the desired 10% increase.

        THIS model I don't think works well in the APP world. Apps selling out for big $$$ are not your average concept to working model in 10 days type APPS. I would venture to say an App that is selling in the 7 and and 8 digit realm is years in development.

        IF I was an App developer... I would be looking at ( https://www.warriorforum.com/warrior...l#post11556966 ) and seeing the pain in the Arse eBay has made tracking product sales.

        An app that accepts a photo of the item. the COG of the selling price, the sold price, Cost of business ( boxes tape etc ) the Shipping Cost, the date was sold, The shipping date, the date the bank transfer was made, and then a method to confirm the record has been reconciled would be a $10.00 app that MANY would buy.

        Just sayin! LOL

        Getting back to the original topic again the KEY is dead on consistent increase with no wobbles. A year is good, 2 years is far better. Then you get in touch with a business broker.
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        • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
          Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

          I have wondered when you were going to slip this in lol. With a lot of things that I do, they are very easy / borderline simple... but can be a pain in the tail end to keep up with. In this case the hardest part is the amount of control needed to follow through with this.

          So to select a business.. Services work VERY well with this. Be it SEO / Lead Gen, or Web design, or Large Format printing or whatever else.

          Onboarding is the absolute secret - there is a bit more to it than just that and Ill get there, but creating a just short of fail proof onboarding process and dedicating the time to do it, even when things get to scale is critical.

          A GREAT example this thread: https://www.warriorforum.com/offline...-seo-work.html the young man is talking about doing local SEO work. 4 hours a month per client ( which in this case is about right ) so the work itself is scalable - you could grow this to down right silly numbers of clients with minimal employment base.

          Look specifically at the numbers I propose to the OP as Possible vs the Numbers I provide for the same service I am doing right now and have been for approaching a 2 year period. 15K a month vs 300K+ THIS is incremental growth at scale.

          So the "Secret" is incremental growth - down at the MONTH level. you want 10% growth month over month over month over month. At the end of a years time ( once the numbers scale a bit ) you end up with 100% ( +/- ) growth YEAR over YEAR. Repeat this for 2 years.. and then put your business up for sale.. value increases dramatically

          A 2 year history of 10% growth by month and 100% year over year says what to value across the next 4 to 5 years? In 2 years time you develop a business that Grosses $100,000 the following year to $200,000, At this point valuation would look something like 400,000 to 800,000 to 1,600,000 to 3,200,000 across 4 years of growth. and we could be generous and depreciate 50% of that number and you are left with a business that very plausibly could be evaluated at 1.6 Million dollars - For a SERVICE no less.

          The largest hurdle in his model is the desire to grow grow and grow. 100% month over month this month, and then 10% the next and then a dry spell the month after that.. etc.

          Controlling Growth is counter intuitive. Once you reach a months cap, you STOP. You then start stacking work for the following month and the month after and so on to a point where you are BOOKED 2 and 3 months out for NEW onboards - Consistently growing 10% a month - NO more and NO less.

          Bring this into Internet marketing of a product... Things get a bit more complicated. As much as you are controlling sales... your not. But even with this you have say a landing page that performs well vs one that does not. IE faucet on to get to your 10% in a month vs faucet off when you have reached your limit - tanking sales for the sake of numbers ( hard concept to swallow for most )

          Understanding this you can see where a short term contract service plays very well. Like I suggested in the other thread I implement 3 month contracts. I do this with My CRO service as well. Turn over allows for a greater amount of control.. more work onboarding but less threat of losing clients and basically screwing your needed growth direction.

          To start the incremental growth is shear number of clients, But as you gain traction you can actually start reducing client base in trade for an increase in the cost of service provided - still giving you the desired 10% increase.

          THIS model I don't think works well in the APP world. Apps selling out for big $$$ are not your average concept to working model in 10 days type APPS. I would venture to say an App that is selling in the 7 and and 8 digit realm is years in development.

          IF I was an App developer... I would be looking at ( https://www.warriorforum.com/warrior...l#post11556966 ) and seeing the pain in the Arse eBay has made tracking product sales.

          An app that accepts a photo of the item. the COG of the selling price, the sold price, Cost of business ( boxes tape etc ) the Shipping Cost, the date was sold, The shipping date, the date the bank transfer was made, and then a method to confirm the record has been reconciled would be a $10.00 app that MANY would buy.

          Just sayin! LOL

          Getting back to the original topic again the KEY is dead on consistent increase with no wobbles. A year is good, 2 years is far better. Then you get in touch with a business broker.
          The original topic of this thread was IM being Direct Marketing, or something like that, I had to check myself to see what I was even talking about (pretty common these days).

          OK. Using a combo of old world Remote Direct Marketing stimulus/response plus the advantages of CRO, data mining, keyword...all that finding a qualified target...then having something to offer.

          And I hope many Warriors will find this discussion beneficial to their ideas of building their IM business, and give serious thought to what is being said.

          So, the story goes: I have a goal. To build a business and sell it off in two years for a million bux, but would be happy to get a quarter of that.

          In order to do that, I need something to offer to people, perhaps a service like SEO or Websites or something. In my case, say a personal development plan.

          I need to have a system which onboards a select number of customers on a monthly basis. For this example, I'll use a price point of 500 dollars and a short 3 month contract. It is far less than what savidge4 gets, and in line with what other web enhancement or SEO guys might get at the lower end of things. Nothing dramatic with this example.

          I feel confident I can onboard 1 new customer a week during the first 12 weeks, at 500 per month for 3 months each, and then having perfected the fulfillment process, proceed with CONTROLLED growth at 10% a month. Like a website might need maintenance and a small ongoing fee to take care of that, a small monthly fee, say a members site, at 50 bux a month might work too, so you stay in constant contact with your customer.

          According to Psychology Today, Personal Development is an 11 Billion dollar growth industry. That may be small next to SEO or Website growth, but it is a steady and an evegreen market.

          We know people will spend 500 a month on SEO, and some businesses, 7500 bux plus ongoing fees too. Wide range of services to offer businesses in the whole website marketplace. But will people spend 500 a month on Personal Development (for my example).

          Well, sure they do. From Tony Robbins who commands thousands of dollars to attend one of his exclusive events, to Bob Proctor of ProctorGallagher, to Les Brown and 1001 other companies in the industry.

          IF the 500 a month included the ability to USE the Personal Development in a profitable way, perhaps as a certified type, like what ProctorGallagher does or the EOS (Entrepreneurial Operating System as taught by Gino Wickman) has levels, and just as comparison an EOS Consultant gets 50k to 75k per client, so it doesn't take many of them a year {they spend about 6 days a year per client}...

          So, if I onboard one new customer a week the first 12 weeks, and then increase that to a manageable 2 a week, and then cross the critical mass threshold in month 10 or 11, then it would be easy to roll this into a business doing several thousand dollars a month with a valuation of at least a quarter of a million by year two, and the sell off, could include an ongoing licensing fee for the use of the materials developed, then we have a blueprint to follow.

          The critical idea I got from this is having an ONBOARDING process which works, this being customer acquisition in my old DM mind, a service/product targeted toward those who want and can afford it, and a continuous and controlled growth of 10% a month and VOILA, we've arrived at the destination.

          A TARGET group of people with the money to spend.

          A PRODUCT/SERVICE in demand.

          A PROCESS to get them onboard, to become customers.

          Controlled GROWTH which is manageable.

          Continuous FULFILLMENT, referrals, and ongoing contact.

          An eye open for potential buyers, possible bigger competitors.

          And either a sell off for a substantial profit or a holding onto a cash cow, with a lot of outsourcing and elimination of hands on so as to move onto other things.

          I think it is an excellent blueprint. And two years of continuous effort, coupled with a PLANNED outcome, would work for any Warrior who actually wanted to achieve some freedom and independence, as opposed to struggling for 5+ years as we so often read about here.

          Savidge4, you have opened many an eye to possibilities we don't often see here, albeit, doing exactly what so many would be Warrior Entrepreneurs want to do, but go about it without the planning, the Math, THE END game in mind.

          So, let's hope some will take this and use it, including myself. Thank you for taking the time to answer all of these questions.

          GordonJ

          PS. There is an old saying, if you want something done quickly give it to a busy man and I doubt there are few Warriors who are busier than you are.
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  • Profile picture of the author savidge4
    GordonJ...

    So lets break this down a bit. what exactly is "Personal Development"? The money is there, the interest is obviously there, but WHAT is it? When all else fails enter Google: ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_development ) Nice and wide topic - meaning there are many verticals to pull together over time.

    Best line in the Article " As a field of practice, personal development includes personal-development methods, learning programs, assessment systems, tools, and techniques. "

    So now we can understand WHAT it is, and WHAT would be the objective of a business as it relates to "Personal Development"

    So as I was reading your post earlier this morning... I was going to kinda slam the idea on a number of points...
    1. What happens when you goto sell and YOU are taken out of the picture?
    2. A sided from a minimal sized client list what exactly would you be selling?
    3. Is there any "Assets" in this model of Business?

    Obviously I refrained from the comment... I had to take some time and educate myself on the idea I can now see the opportunity of assets ( REALLY Critical ) I have an idea of what your selling. The critical question is STILL can you remove YOU from the equation?

    So the development of a Personal Development Center would be something I would look at. To the extent that you could Franchise the concept.

    I honestly would use the Wikipedia page as a MAP in creating this center - right down to Topics of improvement, and developing " learning programs, assessment systems, tools, and techniques "

    I am cheating a bit here because I KNOW Gordon has an amount of this in place already - and if not in place outlined to the point it could be developed.

    The Primary ASSET(s) would be the "learning programs, assessment systems, tools, and techniques " The secondary asset would be the client list and the ability to onboard Consistantly

    The concept of creating a "Center" is how you can remove YOU from the equation. YOU can then be replaced by anyone, anywhere. ( with the right documentation )
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

      GordonJ...

      So lets break this down a bit. what exactly is "Personal Development"? The money is there, the interest is obviously there, but WHAT is it? When all else fails enter Google: ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_development ) Nice and wide topic - meaning there are many verticals to pull together over time.

      Best line in the Article " As a field of practice, personal development includes personal-development methods, learning programs, assessment systems, tools, and techniques. "

      So now we can understand WHAT it is, and WHAT would be the objective of a business as it relates to "Personal Development"

      So as I was reading your post earlier this morning... I was going to kinda slam the idea on a number of points...
      1. What happens when you goto sell and YOU are taken out of the picture?
      2. A sided from a minimal sized client list what exactly would you be selling?
      3. Is there any "Assets" in this model of Business?

      Obviously I refrained from the comment... I had to take some time and educate myself on the idea I can now see the opportunity of assets ( REALLY Critical ) I have an idea of what your selling. The critical question is STILL can you remove YOU from the equation?

      So the development of a Personal Development Center would be something I would look at. To the extent that you could Franchise the concept.

      I honestly would use the Wikipedia page as a MAP in creating this center - right down to Topics of improvement, and developing " learning programs, assessment systems, tools, and techniques "

      I am cheating a bit here because I KNOW Gordon has an amount of this in place already - and if not in place outlined to the point it could be developed.

      The Primary ASSET(s) would be the "learning programs, assessment systems, tools, and techniques " The secondary asset would be the client list and the ability to onboard Consistantly

      The concept of creating a "Center" is how you can remove YOU from the equation. YOU can then be replaced by anyone, anywhere. ( with the right documentation )
      First thing, transparency...and I haven't hid the fact of my thinking of developing a training center, targeted toward self development and so I have more interest than maybe the avg. Warrior, but the process, including the fully fleshing out of any idea, is where our conversation has taken us.

      This reply can be used for most assessments of a business idea, in particular, one which quickly grows assets with an idea of selling those off in a short period of time.

      Dale Carnegie died in 1955, and today the Dale Carnegie Centers (DCC) still operate around the world, and give a pretty good overview of how one type of Personal Development Center operates.

      Trained (certified) Instructors who can earn a living teaching others.
      Franchise. Could be a distributorship, or licensing program, say to use the BRAND.
      Two distinct markets: corporate and individuals.

      DCC has a program which is at the core of all their teaching, this is a PROPRIETARY asset, and one they protect.

      Another model, is the workshop or seminar model.

      But, as you noted, all of these can be broken down. Assessment is one tool that many existing programs lack or the tools they use are very general, non-specific.

      I think a tool needs to be personalized, a one of a kind developed by and for the ONE participant. In past lives, as a Job Developer and a Job Coach I've had to use and rely on the off the shelf tools which come standard in certain fields. From Myers-Briggs to Disc or one of several off the shelf job or career aptitude tests.

      So PROPRIETARY assessment tools would be an asset. And the wall of protection would include Copyrights, Trademarks.

      Which is also the Achille's heel of most Self Development Programs, they have ONE way, more like a FUNNEL, as opposed to a self driven binary choice option, more like a Pachinko machine.

      A Wall St. firm may send a new executive to a Public Speaking/Presentation workshop, and they do (my daughter teaches these in NYC) and there is a curriculum. All students receive the same training, however, the same workshop could be custom tailored to match a personality type, say Introverts. Or any number of variations which would offer a more personalized service.

      TOOLS come along with and are used after the core of whatever training has been provided, again, the problem with the training centers are they all use similar tools. But if someone left a seminar, or a class with customized tool, which would only be for them, I hope there would be some value in that as an asset too.

      There are time models too, Dale Carnegie may be spread out over 12 weeks, one day a week, or like Toastmasters, going through their first book takes maybe a year.

      There are the Career Seminars, like Fred Pryor (which ate up all the competition) and they do a one short day for low cost, 99 dollars and can take either corporate or individuals with a public seminar or offer onsite corporate training too.

      At the higher end of these seminars, like the McGrane 2 day seminar, which goes for 895 dollars, or even the Leadership Development for Women, a 2 day deal for 2345. And these get booked up pretty quickly.

      So, as per the Wiki, Personal Development can be offered to Business, Corp.
      or to
      Individuals.

      Current models are mostly one and done be they B2B or B2C, then have to offer other classes, workshops and seminars or some ongoing training.

      Within the training, a person can develop their own path, which could be put into the new C to C (consumer to consumer) concept, when during their assessment they discover they have stored value, which can be taken to the direct to the marketplace and turned into cold hard cash. Like finding a box of unopened comics in Grandpa's attic.

      To answer the questions.

      NO personality need be attached to a training or workshop which offers self improvement. The BRAND would be in it's one-of-a-kind custom made training.

      Assets are the Copyrighted, Trademarked and Trade Secrets and in the Training of Instructors, be it via a Franchise, or a home office, which licenses either territories, or levels.

      And Fred Pryor spun off SkillPath and National, which were bought by a University, while Fred Pryor took over CareerTrak, and they too were purchased for several million dollars. These two are big players in the self development SEMINAR game, but there are many others and more getting into it every day.

      Franchise opportunities include
      Duct Tape Marketing
      eMyth
      Action Coach
      The Growth Coach
      WSI (We Simplify the Internet)
      AdviCoach

      are among the top of several dozen such opportunities, which cost from 10k to over 100k to get in on this field.

      NOW, for the avg Warrior.

      I have sought answers from an experienced marketer whom I know to have had success in doing what I am thinking of doing.

      Selling a business. Only thing is I want to know how fast can I do it? Or what would be that process, what steps would that have?

      So many Warriors just want to make a little money, and because they come here in want and need, and all too often broke, they get caught up and waste time and money trying to find something.

      I have for over a decade here, asked about the PLAN, the thinking which goes into your idea, your business if you really want to have one. And most Warriors in my opinion are not suited to have a business, they need a money making opportunity, which makes the thread in the WARRIOR PATH sub forum about ebay, also by savidge4 so valuable to many a Warrior.

      But, if you really want to have a business, and understand it takes time to get educated on it, it is really to your benefit, again...my opinion, to have a goal, a plan, even if sketchy at first and to ask EXPERIENCED people to help you flesh it out.

      By participating in these discussions, you will often find ideas you never thought about or concerns you have not considered.

      I have a Remote Direct Marketing background, have sold two businesses, and in my retirement would like to consider a legacy operation, seems to be a theme amongst us old timers. But I rely on the opinions and advice of others, just as you do, to make sure my thinking isn't cloudy, that I haven't fallen in love with an idea and waste what little precious time I have chasing after cars I can't catch.

      Thanks to the participation in this thread and others here, I now have a very clearer idea of what I "might" do, and can see a lot of obstacles, sticking points, or detours in my path and I hope you will get some good ideas from this and other discussions here.

      GordonJ
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      • Profile picture of the author savidge4
        It is very clear this is very well thought out and researched. At this point I suggest allowing "Form Follows Function" to guide the way in terms of the business model, and focus entirely on the function.

        Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

        I think a tool needs to be personalized, a one of a kind developed by and for the ONE participant. In past lives, as a Job Developer and a Job Coach I've had to use and rely on the off the shelf tools which come standard in certain fields. From Myers-Briggs to Disc or one of several off the shelf job or career aptitude tests.

        So PROPRIETARY assessment tools would be an asset. And the wall of protection would include Copyrights, Trademarks.

        Which is also the Achille's heel of most Self Development Programs, they have ONE way, more like a FUNNEL, as opposed to a self driven binary choice option, more like a Pachinko machine.
        The teaching method is pretty defined... UNKNOWN but defined. As I see it there are 2 going on 3 paths to look at. Starting with the easiest in my opinion would be breaking down learning styles...

        ( https://www.learning-styles-online.com/overview/ ) would be a good start. A set of learning materials that is developed based on each of the Learning styles. In terms of say web content I actually only use 4. #1 Reading Text, #2 Visual - the use of diagrams and charts etc. #3 Video and #4 Audio

        A quick test up front for the student to identify the best learning method, and then handing over the appropriate material. Thinking foot steps here I DO understand this is really NOT what you have envisioned.. but again its a start in the right direction, and probably actionable today. In terms of USP the question needs to be asked is this ENOUGH separation from the competition.. and it very well might be.

        The next method is for me only a "model" of learning.. I know somethings about it, but not a lot. That would the "Montessori Learning" model. ( https://montessori-nw.org/what-is-montessori-education ) I think this is probably the most accurate in terms of models to your vision. How this is created, I at this point have NO CLUE.

        The 3rd more outlandish method would be developing an APP of sorts and maybe something a bit more robust in terms of say a video game that teaches these aspects and principles of Development. Microsoft of all Companies might be the inspiration point for this, More specifically Minecraft. ( https://education.minecraft.net/ ) or even looking at:

        https://www.youtube.com/embed/q_TrDncFs_Q

        To hear your 10 year old playing video games with his friends asking about what "Isotope" he needs to separate to get X is straight up mind blowing - Just watch the video and you will understand LOL

        So back to the issue ( Achille's heel ) at hand.. which direction would you follow?
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        • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
          Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

          It is very clear this is very well thought out and researched. At this point I suggest allowing "Form Follows Function" to guide the way in terms of the business model, and focus entirely on the function.



          The teaching method is pretty defined... UNKNOWN but defined. As I see it there are 2 going on 3 paths to look at. Starting with the easiest in my opinion would be breaking down learning styles...

          ( https://www.learning-styles-online.com/overview/ ) would be a good start. A set of learning materials that is developed based on each of the Learning styles. In terms of say web content I actually only use 4. #1 Reading Text, #2 Visual - the use of diagrams and charts etc. #3 Video and #4 Audio

          A quick test up front for the student to identify the best learning method, and then handing over the appropriate material. Thinking foot steps here I DO understand this is really NOT what you have envisioned.. but again its a start in the right direction, and probably actionable today. In terms of USP the question needs to be asked is this ENOUGH separation from the competition.. and it very well might be.

          The next method is for me only a "model" of learning.. I know somethings about it, but not a lot. That would the "Montessori Learning" model. ( https://montessori-nw.org/what-is-montessori-education ) I think this is probably the most accurate in terms of models to your vision. How this is created, I at this point have NO CLUE.

          The 3rd more outlandish method would be developing an APP of sorts and maybe something a bit more robust in terms of say a video game that teaches these aspects and principles of Development. Microsoft of all Companies might be the inspiration point for this, More specifically Minecraft. ( https://education.minecraft.net/ ) or even looking at:

          https://www.youtube.com/embed/q_TrDncFs_Q

          To hear your 10 year old playing video games with his friends asking about what "Isotope" he needs to separate to get X is straight up mind blowing - Just watch the video and you will understand LOL

          So back to the issue ( Achille's heel ) at hand.. which direction would you follow?
          The current industry default teaching model is a classroom or online. They both are basic and wrapped around a TIME frame. Dale Carnegie taking 12 weeks of in the classroom, with instructor present. Or an online webinar, simply the same thing only done remotely.

          The latest Internet add-on is self paced, on-demand and these are limited to the visual and auditory teaching models.

          Montessori is more of a learning model, and you are right, more akin to what I'm thinking. Information, as in 90% of Personal Development offers can be made available in all the main ways, video, audio, touch, but it is still about how one PRESENTS the information and less about how the information is taken in, absorbed, or retained. Let alone how it might be personalized.

          An engaging app would be left for the next generation to develop. beyond our desire and capabilities.

          ONE big breakthrough in the last couple of years is the 3D printer, and that would give a student a hands on opportunity to create their own tools, again, one of a kind.

          As the Wiki points out, there are so many areas of Personal Development, so after an initial assessment, customized, and only for the student, THEY would choose the next path. The either or.

          Depending on where they are at, where they want to go, and what they need to know or do to get there. The information for any given path can be put into a teaching process which bests match the learner. Some may opt to take a DVD, others listen to a Podcast, still others attend a class with others.

          I haven't found anything Montessori like in the Personal Development field, although there may be some mirrors in cults and some religions.

          One of my irritating questions (so I've been told) here at WF is about getting to intent, and what is wanted. Here, the people are all on the GOLD track, about money matters and financial things.

          At other places, their concerns are about love, dating, sex, or food, or diet, or health.

          We see everyday questions asking us to tell people what they should do, which is impossible without knowing more, and even then, we still know their motivation or Intent, they just seek simple answers.

          So the starting point has to be WANT. Or desire. What does one want in Peresonal Development and why?

          This is like standing in front of elevators in a high rise with dedicated elevators only going to certain floors. If you want the Penthouse, you can't take the floors 1 to 10 elevator.

          What sort of PD Personal Development? This means we begin with an ACTIVE student, which is different from having a business send their employee somewhere for training. The might come to us in that way, a broker might need for his people to be able to make group presentations.

          Or maybe Mark Z. feels it might be time to be able to talk to people in a group.

          The teaching method, would be part of their learning preference. Mark Z. would prefer to sit in a sound proof room of his mansion and watch political porn while learning how to speak without twitching himself to death, for instance.

          There is a PARADE already marching, between 8B and 15 Billion dollars, depending on what is included in PD. We want to get into the parade, work our way up to the front of it, and have the leaders pay us to leave. Bad analogy, but you get the point.

          The fundamental difference is, we don't KNOW what to offer a given customer. They are our product.

          The prospect is our product, we're like a rock tumbler for some, to smooth the edges out, or a compounding lab taking different elements of a personality and recombining them to get a NEW and IMPROVED product, in their minds.

          Whereas the current suppliers offer a given path, track, or very specific training, and then are usually done, we have a longer term involvement, for example if I helped a Warrior to get to that seemingly magical 6 figure a year for some pat time effort, then he might want to do something about living in mom's basement or actually meeting someone, another path, one which we have services available to HIM because he designed the course.

          As it stands today, we know the workshop and seminars work, albeit require a physical presence. I see something like this:

          A one day, two hour or so INTRODUCTION, which can be chosen to match any learning preference, but a basic CREATE YOUR PLAN, then, the binary choices begin.

          If it is about money, or finances, the person would choose that path. And within that, a process of discovery about which method would most suit that person. Again, it is a PERSONALIZED Program, as opposed to an off the rack solution which is what constitutes the 11 Billion dollar market today. But people can be attracted to it, by some pretty standard and ordinary methods of marketing.

          I DOUBT if any Warriors come here to find their soul mate, true love or booty call of the day, do they?

          We do know they come here to learn about making money with IM, and there are so many choices within that, and so many experts to choose from...and tons of courses to take let alone the scores of WSO's. But dang few ever take the time to tell us what they bring to the table, what they have to offer to us, what STORED VALUE they might have in their experiences.

          They want to make money.

          But they don't have a clue as to the how. And the choices become overwhelming and we see a guy asking the same question he did 2 years ago, or sadder still, 5 years ago and this because they don't know what they want, or how to get it.

          Anyhow, in other lakes of the Net, desperate men are spending thousands of dollars on seminars on how to get laid, how to become a pick-up artist, how to find true love,

          and that barely scratches the surface of Personal Development.

          In my 2 year goal, it would look something like TESTING the "center", whatever that would be, finding out what the proprietary instruments would look like, being able to duplicate results, taking personality out of the equation, and in the second year, rapid yet controlled expansion via licensing and certifications.

          A "center" could be a Co-Op work space, a small office, or a woman with a briefcase.

          The PRODUCT is Personal Development and Self Improvement customized for a customer. And there are prospects from low hanging fruit all the way to those who spend 25k to 50k to go to a retreat, or a business spending 75k for their marketing improvement.

          The FUNCTION is to give the Prospect what she wants. The FORM can be traditional, or fluid, on location, NO location, with any learning preference they might choose.

          I consider the WF to be a place of Personal Development on the MONEY lane of life, not the only lane, but for all intents and purposes, the only one Warriors care about.

          You have given us a lot to think about, and it is all appreciated. I think much of what we've discovered could be easily adapted to just about any Money Making IM path one chooses to go down.

          GordonJ
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          • Profile picture of the author savidge4
            Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

            The current industry default teaching model is a classroom or online. They both are basic and wrapped around a TIME frame. Dale Carnegie taking 12 weeks of in the classroom, with instructor present. Or an online webinar, simply the same thing only done remotely.

            The latest Internet add-on is self paced, on-demand and these are limited to the visual and auditory teaching models.
            Says who? Reading type education is a book no? Visual a video and Auditory a sound file. So immediately you have 3 pieces of content created from a single VIDEO.. the audio is pulled, and the words are transcribed.

            Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

            Montessori is more of a learning model, and you are right, more akin to what I'm thinking. Information, as in 90% of Personal Development offers can be made available in all the main ways, video, audio, touch, but it is still about how one PRESENTS the information and less about how the information is taken in, absorbed, or retained. Let alone how it might be personalized.
            I would suggest it is one in the same... FORM FOLLOWS FUNCTION.

            As I look at this.. I would suggest it is MORE important that the Lesson taught is actually internalized by the student - so how it is taken in BY THE STUDENT - is what should dictate how it is presented. The more I think about this the more I am pretty sure THIS would be the great divide in the market space. a TRUE USP in the PD space.

            A personal example.. my son is damn near a 100% visual learner... Having young children in the house you have those slip on Baby door knob things that you have to press in to open a door right? We would literally block his view with our body so he would not see HOW to make it work. All it took was ONCE, and the door knob covers came off the next day.. they were useless. YES he is that visual.

            When I was teaching him to write letter and his name... it was a struggle.. until I figured out that holding the pen / pencil / crayon with my hand was actually blocking his view. Something as simple as a drawing app on an iPad and then displaying the tablet screen on to a TV.. removed the hand, and he learned to write in days after literally years of struggling. I would then argue that the HOW one learns is the GREATEST variable.

            Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

            I haven't found anything Montessori like in the Personal Development field
            Not that I have seen. .nor is there one based on ones ability to learn. We have to keep in mind of the end goal in much of this is $. Really has nothing to do with actually teaching something.. yes there are programs out there that may teach something but in the END, that is not the end goal. the $ is the end Goal. Flip that on its ear and $ becomes a waterfall vs a faucet..

            Look at Claude as an example.. is he doing it for $ or in Perpetuity? Money is targeting a Pain... Perpetuity is a whole other ball game. I would suggest Perpetuity in the end creates more $. Ask Dan Kennedy - his last few months I am sure have been the most profitable of his entire carreer.

            Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

            As the Wiki points out, there are so many areas of Personal Development, so after an initial assessment, customized, and only for the student, THEY would choose the next path. The either or.

            One of my irritating questions (so I've been told) here at WF is about getting to intent, and what is wanted. Here, the people are all on the GOLD track, about money matters and financial things.

            At other places, their concerns are about love, dating, sex, or food, or diet, or health.

            We see everyday questions asking us to tell people what they should do, which is impossible without knowing more, and even then, we still know their motivation or Intent, they just seek simple answers.

            So the starting point has to be WANT. Or desire. What does one want in Personal Development and why?
            And all of THIS is what I see as the stumbling stones of the idea. I am thinking you want it all.. instead of asking where do I start. You simply cant develop all of the content you would need to cover ALL of these areas of PD. But one at a time - wash rinse repeat... and you end up with more and more and more.

            Read this: https://sapientiamontessori.com/mont...ssori-at-home/ I see this as being a very solid foundation to start with. What the learning environment should look and feel like. What behavior activities that should take place "Everything has a place" to "Use a Bowl, wash a bowl"

            Some wicked cool blogs that were on the above linked page:

            https://www.howwemontessori.com/ The photos of Otis's spaces are WOW inspiring LOL I have actually after reading over this last night have already employed much of this in my sons life, and without question in my own.

            https://livingmontessorinow.com/ A teacher and school owner ( previously maybe ) Pretty in depth sections here

            If you were to use loosely or otherwise the below quote as a basis for a Mission statement

            "Education should no longer be mostly imparting of knowledge, but must take a new path, seeking the release of human potentialities."- Maria Montessori

            You then need only decide on a direction the content / learning material should take in form and function and simply start1 topic at a time and produce. It clearly is not an overnight process - a full path of PD could literally take a lifetime - or in our cases what's left of our lifetime.

            NOT starting anywhere... somewhere leaves the idea at that... an IDEA. Picking a topic... any topic and moving forward is what turns the corner from an idea to a working model of learning.

            --- Insert the statement below ---
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  • Profile picture of the author savidge4
    So I have had a weekend for this to roll around my head a bit...

    Have to say I am still rather stuck on the idea of entrance be it online or offline in taking a test to determine a personal learning style. This is clearly a well defined USP in the space. I happened to come across a ad for a vertical jump program with kind of the same thing.. personalizing the program for your jumping style Running 1 foot or 2 foot jump and then standing 2 foot jump. Have spent a little time trying to find it again and been unsuccessful ):

    So what my little brain came up with keeping in line with the Montessori theme was a intro set of core lessons that would develop a clean learning space. Basic organization skills and other things along that line. So maybe 3 lessons in total.. Core 1, 2, and 3.

    You then would have topic based lessons A, B, C etc. At the base of each topic would be a piece of content related to WHAT IS < INSERT TOPIC >? So as an example A) would be Love, and B would be Internet Marketing and C would be Public speaking. each of these topics would have progressive modules. A1, A2, A3 etc and B and C1 B and C2 etc.

    At each of the 1 levels there would be a reinforcement of a core topic and then defining the topic and what the range of modules will include. At each increment of a topic there would be the re-enforcement of a Core as well as the lesson.

    After reading a bit of Montessori material there is a very underlying tone of Organization, and how that plays out at teaching that as a youngster and how it develops getting older. And truth be told Organization would be a pretty common trait of success.

    One of the other points that is brought up is starting and finishing. I draw from my Buddhist background and use the phrase "Use a bowl, clean a bowl" which very much falls in line with everything has a place, and a bowls place is NOT dirty and in the sink LOL ( this is used at my house a bit.. more towards the wife than the son - actually Even more so to the Mother-In-Law than the wife or son ( But I love her LOL )

    The part of this that still is floating a bit is the adaptation of content to the interest of the student. I grasp this in terms of doing it for my son... and in a moment ill share how its starting to take shape directed to an adult.

    I recently watched ( well listened and watched ) to the Netflicks Documentary "Decoding Bill Gates"


    There are only 3 episodes and worth the time. If you think about the "Core" as I have explained it.. you see it played out, in this series. Actually listening / watching to this series I had a bit of an epiphany... If you look at the Tai Lopeze's of the world, they make a big deal about reading... Bill Gates, if you watch the videos could easily make the same argument. I personally am in no way going to disagree with the idea... I really don't do books... I read online - at a pretty feverish pace.

    Anyways.. the "Awe" Moment - or the more like "Im Like Bill" moment came when I noticed Tai usually shows a stack of books and if you pay attention to the titles.. they tend to be self help in nature. Not that you could see the majority of Titles that Bill carried - literally, ( you have to watch the videos ) or those in his libraries... I would lay money that NOT A ONE was about Personal Development.

    Its not that Personal Development is a BAD thing - it directly relates to what Tai's path is. Bill on the other hand is all over the place ( like myself ) and reading to learn if not redefine the topic he has thrust himself apon.

    My learning behavior is simple. I get a client that is a Electrical Engineer, that works with Step Motors. In order for me to create content, and a site, and a funnel to assist him in selling Step motors.. I need to know more than I ever thought possible on the subject. Imagine this at scale.. 100 clients a year...

    There becomes patterns of overlap. knowledge is not exclusive it is inclusive. Meaning it is easy to draw from past learned experiences, and applying to a current application. I grasp step motors because it relates to my degree in Electronic Engineering. When I went and got my Contractors, Electrical, and Plumbing licenses.. I really didn't have to study all that much because I had been building websites on the topics for years.

    So the idea of the topic "Internet Marketing" becoming the common ground and the variable path as set forth in the ideals of the Montessori system becomes plausible. Things like Organization, Setting Priorities, Time Management, Public Speaking, Delivering a Sales Pitch, Relationships, Love, Health.

    So jumping back to the beginning of this post... You have Level 1 Core concepts - what learning / work space looks like. Level 2 Core Setting Priorities. Level 3 Core Time Management etc etc.

    You then drop to the Topic based Modules step by step breaking down Internet Marketing. Level A, "What Is Internet Marketing?" Internet marketing is going stuff on the internet. and then dropping in the reinforcement of CORE - Organization. Level B "Where to Get Started" dropping reinforcement of Setting Priorities. and so on and so on.

    boy I hope this made sense LOL
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    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

      So I have had a weekend for this to roll around my head a bit...

      Have to say I am still rather stuck on the idea of entrance be it online or offline in taking a test to determine a personal learning style. This is clearly a well defined USP in the space. I happened to come across a ad for a vertical jump program with kind of the same thing.. personalizing the program for your jumping style Running 1 foot or 2 foot jump and then standing 2 foot jump. Have spent a little time trying to find it again and been unsuccessful ):

      So what my little brain came up with keeping in line with the Montessori theme was a intro set of core lessons that would develop a clean learning space. Basic organization skills and other things along that line. So maybe 3 lessons in total.. Core 1, 2, and 3.

      You then would have topic based lessons A, B, C etc. At the base of each topic would be a piece of content related to WHAT IS < INSERT TOPIC >? So as an example A) would be Love, and B would be Internet Marketing and C would be Public speaking. each of these topics would have progressive modules. A1, A2, A3 etc and B and C1 B and C2 etc.

      At each of the 1 levels there would be a reinforcement of a core topic and then defining the topic and what the range of modules will include. At each increment of a topic there would be the re-enforcement of a Core as well as the lesson.

      After reading a bit of Montessori material there is a very underlying tone of Organization, and how that plays out at teaching that as a youngster and how it develops getting older. And truth be told Organization would be a pretty common trait of success.

      One of the other points that is brought up is starting and finishing. I draw from my Buddhist background and use the phrase "Use a bowl, clean a bowl" which very much falls in line with everything has a place, and a bowls place is NOT dirty and in the sink LOL ( this is used at my house a bit.. more towards the wife than the son - actually Even more so to the Mother-In-Law than the wife or son ( But I love her LOL )

      The part of this that still is floating a bit is the adaptation of content to the interest of the student. I grasp this in terms of doing it for my son... and in a moment ill share how its starting to take shape directed to an adult.

      I recently watched ( well listened and watched ) to the Netflicks Documentary "Decoding Bill Gates"

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCv29JKmHNY

      There are only 3 episodes and worth the time. If you think about the "Core" as I have explained it.. you see it played out, in this series. Actually listening / watching to this series I had a bit of an epiphany... If you look at the Tai Lopeze's of the world, they make a big deal about reading... Bill Gates, if you watch the videos could easily make the same argument. I personally am in no way going to disagree with the idea... I really don't do books... I read online - at a pretty feverish pace.

      Anyways.. the "Awe" Moment - or the more like "Im Like Bill" moment came when I noticed Tai usually shows a stack of books and if you pay attention to the titles.. they tend to be self help in nature. Not that you could see the majority of Titles that Bill carried - literally, ( you have to watch the videos ) or those in his libraries... I would lay money that NOT A ONE was about Personal Development.

      Its not that Personal Development is a BAD thing - it directly relates to what Tai's path is. Bill on the other hand is all over the place ( like myself ) and reading to learn if not redefine the topic he has thrust himself apon.

      My learning behavior is simple. I get a client that is a Electrical Engineer, that works with Step Motors. In order for me to create content, and a site, and a funnel to assist him in selling Step motors.. I need to know more than I ever thought possible on the subject. Imagine this at scale.. 100 clients a year...

      There becomes patterns of overlap. knowledge is not exclusive it is inclusive. Meaning it is easy to draw from past learned experiences, and applying to a current application. I grasp step motors because it relates to my degree in Electronic Engineering. When I went and got my Contractors, Electrical, and Plumbing licenses.. I really didn't have to study all that much because I had been building websites on the topics for years.

      So the idea of the topic "Internet Marketing" becoming the common ground and the variable path as set forth in the ideals of the Montessori system becomes plausible. Things like Organization, Setting Priorities, Time Management, Public Speaking, Delivering a Sales Pitch, Relationships, Love, Health.

      So jumping back to the beginning of this post... You have Level 1 Core concepts - what learning / work space looks like. Level 2 Core Setting Priorities. Level 3 Core Time Management etc etc.

      You then drop to the Topic based Modules step by step breaking down Internet Marketing. Level A, "What Is Internet Marketing?" Internet marketing is going stuff on the internet. and then dropping in the reinforcement of CORE - Organization. Level B "Where to Get Started" dropping reinforcement of Setting Priorities. and so on and so on.

      boy I hope this made sense LOL
      Ben Suarez was an engineer working for Babcock & Wilcox in Barberton, OH. He wanted a side hustle, and focused on Mail Order. He struggled for a few years, then hit upon a book of financial tables, showing interest rates, appreciation, etc. He printed a 1000 copies. He just LOVED the idea, and knew everyone would want one.

      He didn't sell a single copy.

      Enter Gary Halbert, a marketer, who told Ben to sell what people WANTED and were already buying. He suggested ASTROLOGY. Ben almost threw up at the idea. He hated it.

      But being on the brink of quitting and resigning himself to a job he hated because of how things were done at the company, he gave it one last go.

      The BREAKTHROUGH ad was ASTROLOGY TODAY, and ran a full page in the Sunday Comics section (youngsters may not know newspapers used to carry the Sunday Funnies).

      In his book, Winning Through Intimidation, Robert Ringer tells the story of avoiding lawyers, as consultants to business ideas. Confer with them only after the idea is fleshed out and only for their legal expertise. Likewise, ...

      In my 50+ years of business, Engineers have been my hardest "client", customer, or consumer. Probably because I am NOT of that ilk. And have found many of them just don't or can't keep things simple for the masses, and some have difficulty with understanding why people do either stupid or illogical things, especially when buying...and as a group of people, don't connect with the emotions of buying.

      Just anecdotal of course, but Engineers have a hard time with personal development and self improvement in general, they are more EDUCATION oriented... their education being of the factual, empirical and scientific sort. Many are not great with touchy-feely, or emotional. I understand this is a blanket statement, and doesn't cover all or every such engineer/scientific type.

      Personal Development is an 11 Billion Dollar industry. It has DEMAND. It is EVERGREEN. It has many niches within the market.

      Now, I AM a numbers guy, as it relates to Customer Acquisition and Lifetime Value, and figuring out how many of what needs to be done along with where and when.

      But, only as it relates to the marketing of a product or service.

      I truly appreciate all the feedback, great food for thought, lots to think about and consider, so please understand that all this is taken in and given attention.

      There are, however, 25 years in place for a lot of what I am considering, it has been started, tested, proven, and acted upon. Now, if I choose to share it and build it out, I have a pretty clear idea of what needs to be done.

      There is a yellow brick road, and a gold brick road, and standing at the fork, it doesn't matter to me which one I take...all get me to Oz.

      There are other people whom I have to consider, and that is what I'm doing. Either way I take works for me, but one of the paths is going to be better for a traveling companion.

      So, I hope this makes sense, and all the great ideas are helpful, now I must confer with those on the journey.

      Thanks for all this wonderful idea building.

      GordonJ
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