Food for thought, so to speak.

17 replies
Offline marketing is traditional marketing that is done outside of the Internet. Typically, offline marketing involves presentations, flyers, telephone sales, face to face meetings and television, newspaper and magazine advertisements.

In the Warrior Forum Offline Marketing forum, you'll learn effective offline marketing techniques and strategies to reach and gain more customers through conventional marketing. You'll learn how to make money with offline marketing and how to help offline businesses become online businesses.


Just in case you've never read what this sub forum is about. Although today, almost all offline marketing has an online component and growing bigger daily.

We have had a fairly traditional conversation here about our offline marketing efforts, but today, I'd like to dive a little deeper into some of the lesser known ways and shine some light on some hidden in plain site opportunities. OK?

It begins with exposure. Because if you haven't been exposed to things, you wouldn't even consider them. I'll start with a story of two men.

Two men, Joe Karbo and Harvey Brody, friends I believe back in the day.

Joe wrote a famous book, THE LAZY MAN'S WAY TO RICHES. Harvey wrote a course on HOW TO BECOME FINANCIALLY AND PERSONALLY INDEPENDENT.

Joe's book sold for 10 bux. Harvey's course for several hundred dollars.

I was a student at Golden West College when I met Joe, and he exposed me to the publishing business/mail order biz and introduced me to other mail order mavens of the day.

Joe exposed me to HOTSHEETS, and I was hooked. Some guy in S. CA was selling 200 copies of a one page sales sheet (on boats and yachts) and was collecting 4k bux a week to publish it. He charged 20 dollars for that single piece of paper and guys like Joe Karbo willingly paid for it.

Many years later, having bought the Harvey Brody course I was exposed to TOLL POSITIONS and that was a real game changer.

I have two other people to tell you about, a bit later, who did totally different things, one selling to DOD (Department of Defense) and the other owning patents. But for now, consider the business models of Joe and Harvey.

Both were publishers, both had other business interests. Harvey was an inventor and created the ZOOM SPOUT oiler, with sales these past 50+ years of over a couple hundred million units. He owns the patent, formulas, and has about 125 customers.

Joe sold tens of thousands of his book and had thousands of customers.

Once you bought Joe's book, he had some back ends, but you wouldn't buy the book every month, see?

But oil is consumed. It gets used up and then it gets reordered. And some of those orders can be for thousands of units at a time, like what Walmart or Home Depot might do, order by the pallet and have it on auto resupply.

So, for something different to discuss, if anyone is willing, how about we talk about consumables (I know supplements are popular, I used to sell them) and/or TOLL positions as it relates to offline (and now online) marketing?

Do you have examples or questions? Maybe it could be an interesting topic, maybe not, but at least it is something a tad bit different, eh?

GordonJ
#food #speak #thought
Avatar of Unregistered
  • Profile picture of the author StevenTylerPjs
    As far as consumables, from what I've observed, it's a commodity based on price. Even adding "additional value" costs money.
    ie including a free shaker bottle with a tub of protein. So it seems to be a race to the bottom. The guy with the lowest price gets the biggest volume of sales, especially when you're competing online. Any face-to-face value you could add, is lost.

    I'm not sure what a toll position is, but would like to hear more examples on it.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11603179].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author myob
      Originally Posted by StevenTylerPjs View Post

      I'm not sure what a toll position is, but would like to hear more examples on it.
      It's a rehash of a classic marketing concept. Here are some examples of Toll Position marketing (coined and marketed by Harvey Brody in the 1970's)

      Product ownership
      Control over a product (for example through licensing, resale rights or distributorships)
      Patents
      Trademarks
      Real estate
      Chemical formulas
      Trade secrets

      Early legends of direct response marketing like Gary Halbert, Ben Suarez , Joe Karbo, Joe Sugarman, Jay Abraham, Dan Kennedy, Bud Weckesser and Jerry Buchanan were perhaps the most notable entrepreneurs who were influenced by Brody's seminars.

      Jefferey Lant's classics such as "The Unabashed Self-Promoter's Guide" (still available on amazon) perhaps are the most detailed guides ever assembled on this topic, which predates Harvey Brody by several decades.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11603187].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author StevenTylerPjs
        I've looked into licensing and really like the idea. "One Simple Idea" by Stephen Key is an excellent book on the topic with lots of examples and ways to come up with ideas. He helped launch Teddy Ruxpin back in the 80's.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11603190].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
          Originally Posted by StevenTylerPjs View Post

          I've looked into licensing and really like the idea. "One Simple Idea" by Stephen Key is an excellent book on the topic with lots of examples and ways to come up with ideas. He helped launch Teddy Ruxpin back in the 80's.
          Harvey Reese, Greg Battersby, Richard Stim, all have good work on the nuts and bolts of doing it. We have several very good IP lawyers here in Akron, OH area, the remnants of the heyday of Rubber...more chemical patents than any other city its size.

          I have known a few, very few, copywriters who have licensed their ads, and I can only guess, that has a pretty short life span (although I could be wrong). I do know some guys who have licensed their cleaning compounds and collect royalties.

          My uncle used to license his hanging plants, had 5 guys who each paid 30k a year for the rights. All of these guys made 5 times that by offering them to corporate locales.

          Ever been in a big building where you see all those beautiful hanging plants all over, somebody had to grow them, and somebody sold, or leased them. Hanging money trees they be to someone.

          GordonJ
          Signature
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11603204].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
        Originally Posted by myob View Post

        Here are some examples of Toll Position marketing (coined and marketed by Harvey Brody in the 1970's)

        Product ownership
        Control over a product (for example through licensing, resale rights or distributorships)
        Patents
        Trademarks
        Real estate
        Chemical formulas
        Trade secrets

        Early legends of direct response marketing like Gary Halbert, Ben Suarez , Joe Karbo, Joe Sugarman, Jay Abraham, Dan Kennedy, Bud Weckesser and Jerry Buchanan were perhaps the most notable entrepreneurs who were influenced by Brody's seminars.

        Jefferey Lant's classics such as "The Unabashed Self-Promoter's Guide" (still available on amazon) perhaps are the most detailed guides ever assembled on this topic, which predates Harvey Brody by several decades. It's not a new concept.
        Lant's work is great. Just a small time frame correction here, Lant was born in 1947 and was 10 years old when Harvey Brody patented the ZOOM spout oiler. By the time Lant had finished college, the Brody seminars, including those folks you mentioned had already rec'd the toll position information.

        Brody actually shut down his publishing when Lant was just getting fired up. I think the Lant work on fundraising is seminal, and one of the best books ever written.

        GordonJ
        Signature
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11603195].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author myob
          Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

          Lant's work is great. Just a small time frame correction here, Lant was born in 1947 and was 10 years old when Harvey Brody patented the ZOOM spout oiler. By the time Lant had finished college, the Brody seminars, including those folks you mentioned had already rec'd the toll position information.

          Brody actually shut down his publishing when Lant was just getting fired up. I think the Lant work on fundraising is seminal, and one of the best books ever written.

          GordonJ
          I stand corrected.

          I actually got my baby teeth in marketing through Jefferey Lant's books and seminars, especially "The Unabashed Self-Promoter's Guide: What Every Man, Woman, Child and Organization in America Needs to Know About Getting Ahead by Exploiting the Media".

          I just never heard of this as "Toll Position Marketing" until I got Harvey Brody's "Toll Position Secrets' Report" back in the 1980's.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11603198].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
            Originally Posted by myob View Post

            I stand corrected.

            I actually got my baby teeth in marketing through Jefferey Lant's books and seminars, especially "The Unabashed Self-Promoter's Guide: What Every Man, Woman, Child and Organization in America Needs to Know About Getting Ahead by Exploiting the Media".

            I just never heard of this as "Toll Position Marketing" until I got Harvey Brody's "Toll Position Secrets' Report" back in the 1980's.
            My problem, and this is just MY problem, is Lant isn't very likeable, if you have had dealings with him, (but then, the same could be said about me)...

            BUT, YOU are right, his work is head and shoulders above most of what is considered classic, and he never felt the need to talk down to you, that so called third grade reading level crap. He never hid his intelligence, and UNABASHED has to be one of the top 10 marketing books ever.

            By the time in the 80's Brody was closing down, he had enough of employees...and one of his partners, a brilliant man named Sherman Hunter, has also brought out a lot of information about tolls...Brody was an engineer working with E. Joseph Cossman, who also had one of the classic courses.

            Cossman was also responsible for early infomercials, before they got banned, as was Joe Karbo, who had his own late night tv show, one of the first Home shopping network type shows.

            GordonJ
            Signature
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11603202].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author myob
              Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

              My problem, and this is just MY problem, is Lant isn't very likeable, if you have had dealings with him
              I've never dealt with Lant personally, but certainly he has a reputation for being abrasive, to put it mildly. That's not necessarily a negative quality in getting publicity in a noisy marketing environment, however.

              His marketing style and personality fits quite well for exploiting the media (including all offline and online channels) for dominating major distribution verticals. Toll Position Marketing concepts slide in nicely.
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11603223].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
                Originally Posted by myob View Post

                I've never dealt with Lant personally, but certainly he has a reputation for being abrasive, to put it mildly. That's not necessarily a negative quality in getting publicity in a noisy marketing environment, however.

                His marketing style and personality fits quite well for exploiting the media (including all offline and online channels) for dominating major distribution verticals. Toll Position Marketing concepts slide in nicely.
                Being abrasive, as you rightfully state, isn't always a negative quality, in fact, it comes in quite handy sometimes.

                In retrospect, maybe my interactions caught him at a bad time, or maybe I deserved the rudeness, and with the last few years under our belt, we can all see how being abrasive, crude, rude and even .nasty, can elevate people to guru (or at least high paid talking heads) status.

                Glad I sold my TV,

                But now that I think about it, a revisit to UNABASHED Self Promoter, with a highlighter in hand and a couple of hours of TV, Redditt, News...some of his stuff will set off an Ah Ha moment, again.

                Dang, now I have o buy a TV (but probably won't).

                GordonJ
                Signature
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11603389].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
        Originally Posted by myob View Post


        <snipped for the point>

        Product ownership
        Control over a product (for example through licensing, resale rights or distributorships)

        Patents
        Trademarks
        Real estate
        Chemical formulas
        Trade secrets
        .
        Like in most areas of business, you can BUY your way in, or you can learn, study, bootstrap and Joint Venture.

        So unless you have some Xtra cash on hand, the last 5 on this list will probably be off limits for you, or for most Warriors.

        But, PRODUCT OWNERSHIP and

        CONTROL over a product are strategies which can be executed quickly. Here's how:

        Two basic models.

        YOU as the product. This is seen a lot in IM, the person, be they a guru, expert, influencer or whatever is what is first marketed. Keeping up with the Kardashians is better than keeping up with the Alexander's of Hog Holler.

        Most of you can recognize the NAMES of many of the top people in IM, chances are your inbox is filled with stuff you signed up for.

        So, YOU can be the product or the face of the product, but for those of us too fugly to put our faces out there...

        YOUR EXPERTISE can be the product. This includes your education, training, life experiences, skills, knowledge. All the things that make you one of a kind in this world.

        THAT can also be a PRODUCT which you can control, and either way affords the chance to create TOLL positions. Here are a few examples.

        Tony Robbins. Both a product and the face of his own products. To the tune of over a 100M a year, anyone NOT heard of Tony???

        We live and many thrive in this culture of personality. Be OUT THERE, be outspoken, and be seen and heard. One way to go about it, and if you do, and find your tribe, that is all there is to it, just keep hammerin and yammmerin away. You can be a cult leader with just your ideas and opinions, lots of talking heads and voices on the radio and podcasts only offer up their opinions as the product OR front face of a back end.

        There are also the Joint Ventures made available to these folks too.

        But there is another group. more quiet, less known, who offer up products other than what they think life should and ought to be...they sell STUFF, even electrons of an eBook.

        In my 33 years of online activity, I've sold over 67 information products I've either created or Joint Ventured with.

        And affiliate marketing COULD offer a toll position, IF YOU OWN THE PRODUCT which other people sell.

        So, today, right now, you can look in the mirror and see a potential TWO possible ready to be used and profited from Toll Positions...if you cringe (like I do) while looking in said mirror, then maybe you don't want to be the face of the product...but if what you see makes you as happy as clam (whoever came up with that one?)...then go forth with confidence in the direction of your goals and make stuff happen.

        GordonJ

        PS. There IS a whole sub-culture, or hidden way of acquiring TOLL positions of the last five types with no money out of your pocket, and each has its own methods and strategies too, just takes some time to learn. All depends what kind of a hurry are you in?
        Signature
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11603391].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author myob
          Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

          So, today, right now, you can look in the mirror and see a potential TWO possible ready to be used and profited from Toll Positions...if you cringe (like I do) while looking in said mirror, then maybe you don't want to be the face of the product...but if what you see makes you as happy as clam (whoever came up with that one?)...then go forth with confidence in the direction of your goals and make stuff happen.

          GordonJ

          PS. There IS a whole sub-culture, or hidden way of acquiring TOLL positions of the last five types with no money out of your pocket, and each has its own methods and strategies too, just takes some time to learn. All depends what kind of a hurry are you in?
          Being a simple kind of a guy I just call this branding. The term "TOLL position marketing" is just a branded term for brand marketing. Obfuscation is a powerful differentiation technique for quickly acquiring "TOLL positions" or more simply, "establishing your brand" in any market. Thanks for the demonstration.

          Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post

          But now that I think about it, a revisit to UNABASHED Self Promoter, with a highlighter in hand and a couple of hours of TV, Redditt, News...some of his stuff will set off an Ah Ha moment, again.
          You can build your very own "Toll Position" for free, just by unabashedly exploiting the media.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11603497].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author animal44
      Originally Posted by StevenTylerPjs View Post

      I'm not sure what a toll position is, but would like to hear more examples on it.
      Ever been on a toll road? Everyone who drives along it pays...

      Second business I created found manufacturers in one country and distributors in another country. I put the two together and received a fee for everything that was sold. That's an example of a toll position.

      Only reason most people buy on price is because they're not given any other compelling reason...
      Signature

      People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.
      What I do for a living

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11603188].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author StevenTylerPjs
        Free bonus items, partial proceeds going to a charitable cause, "Made in America"/ locally made, organic, etc. all these are compelling reasons, but all cost additional money to integrate, which takes away from your bottom line. The guy willing to work with the lowest margins seems to win, unless he creates a unique product himself - meaning he is the producer/manufacturer.

        Not saying it isn't possible and not being argumentative. I've had ideas before and it seems to often come down to losing profits. So I'd like to learn more.

        I've seen Claude mention he services his vacuums for free. That works well for in-person, but not as much online.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11603193].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author animal44
          Originally Posted by StevenTylerPjs View Post

          Free bonus items, partial proceeds going to a charitable cause, "Made in America"/ locally made, organic, etc. all these are compelling reasons, but all cost additional money to integrate, which takes away from your bottom line. The guy willing to work with the lowest margins seems to win, unless he creates a unique product himself - meaning he is the producer/manufacturer.
          I'm not so sure those are compelling reasons, unless you expand upon them.

          Example: "Made in America" tends to imply cheap and tacky to me. Maybe it'd appeal to the patriotic, but even then...

          I remember a while back there was something between Japan and UK, a trade deal or maybe it was some form of forgiveness for the war. Can't quite remember what it was. However, this old guy, who had been a Japanese POW, objected and he appeared on the news traveling to Downing St to register his protest. He hated the Japanese. Yet he was shown being driven up in a Japanese car!

          People's patriotism only goes so far.

          However, if you expanded on these and showed them WIIFM, then maybe compelling. You have to sell bonuses just as much as the product. And the customer/prospect has to care about the bonus. Get it right and people will buy just to get the bonus.



          As for cost, a proper approach to other businesses can get you free giveaways.

          You might say something like:
          You spend a lot of time and money advertising and promoting your business to get new customers. I'd like to promote your business and at the same time have something of value to give to my customers.
          If you give me some free product or service, I'll give them to my customers and you'll access a new stream of customers for no promotional costs..."
          All it will cost them is their hard costs. For example, a $50 restaurant voucher costs, say, $15 in food costs. A cup of coffee costs pennies. A free Haircut costs maybe a couple of dollars at most.

          Not only will the people buy additional things, but they will come back as repeat customers.

          You might have to go through and lay it out for them, lifetime value of customer, cost of getting a customer, etc... Most businesses will go for some sort of deal such as this...

          And you potentially could do some reciprocal offer to their customers.

          And then there's suppliers. It's in their interests to help you increase your sales. Get your suppliers to help you by supplying free samples.

          In any business, I'd focus majority of my efforts on recurring customers. They're the ones who will make you the most profits. Send them educational material, VIP customer only offers, etc. Make them feel special and they'll keep coming back...

          Just a few random ideas... maybe get your creative juices going...
          Signature

          People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.
          What I do for a living

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11604196].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
            Originally Posted by animal44 View Post


            <snipped for brevity>



            In any business, I'd focus majority of my efforts on recurring customers. They're the ones who will make you the most profits.
            Thanks animal44,

            In the thread about AIDA, my contribution was to add an S to any formula, the S being for SATISFACTION.

            Nothing beats a satisfied customer, and the lifetime value should more than offset any acquisition costs.

            GordonJ
            Signature
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11604856].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
        Originally Posted by animal44 View Post

        Ever been on a toll road? Everyone who drives along it pays...

        Second business I created found manufacturers in one country and distributors in another country. I put the two together and received a fee for everything that was sold. That's an example of a toll position.

        Only reason most people buy on price is because they're not given any other compelling reason...
        I highlighted the whole idea, PUT TWO PEOPLE (or entities) together and collect a fee.

        Now, an ongoing toll can be found in the Music industry, apparently Elvis Presley's estate still collects millions of dollars from both licensing and royalties on music.

        Jerry Seinfeld and Larry David still rake in big bux from SEINFELD, a show long long gone from weekly TV production...but still a world wide fav.

        Put people together, collect the fee. One of the great business strategies out there, when you get away from one person to one person and go to one entity to millions.

        GordonJ
        Signature
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11603207].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author GordonJ
      Originally Posted by StevenTylerPjs View Post

      As far as consumables, from what I've observed, it's a commodity based on price. Even adding "additional value" costs money.
      ie including a free shaker bottle with a tub of protein. So it seems to be a race to the bottom. The guy with the lowest price gets the biggest volume of sales, especially when you're competing online. Any face-to-face value you could add, is lost.

      I'm not sure what a toll position is, but would like to hear more examples on it.
      Maybe for the consumer market. Consider Uncle Sam and his need for over 20,000,000 gallons of lubricating oil every year.

      The US Navy spends millions a year on special hydraulic oil for their nuclear subs.

      Cost is far less an issue than delivery...and in the supply chain, some of those companies have multi year contracts, into the tens of millions of dollars.

      When you take a macro look at what the world uses, and get away from seeing consumables by people, and look at consumables by organizations, Gov'ts, corporate and you see tons of opportunity.

      Consider the mundane cleaning supplies used aboard US Navy ships, and again, you see millions of dollars. Sure, there is a specialty knowledge, a learning curve, but thousands do it every day.

      A toll position is where any demand and supply meet. If you are there, like the toll road or toll bridge examples, you collect your dough coming and going.

      GordonJ
      Signature
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[11603199].message }}
Avatar of Unregistered

Trending Topics