Offline Marketing To Ostriches... (a.k.a. Mungo)

31 replies
Right.. I am starting to get frustrated.

I keep coming up against people with their head in the sand.

These people tell me that they need more business and they are currently getting zero enquiries from their website.

So I say to them I will use my skills to get a site to top of google for <service> <area>, I won't take any money upfront, I will just take money by referred business. There is no risk on their part, I will just provide them extra business and they will pay me a refferral fee.

IT IS LIKE I AM SPEAKING A FOREIGN LANGUAGE!!!

"Do you want extra customers and more business?"

"Yes."

"Is your current advertising working very well?"

"No."

"Would you like to get more business from the internet with no upfront development or marketing fees?"

"Urrrghhh... mungo no undestand!!"

I am not new to sales and I explain the whole process. "Joe Bloggs wants a <service>, so he goes to google and types <keyword>. If we are there at #1 then we will get all the business. Usually that is very expensive to achieve but I am happy to work purely on performance and on refferred custom" Derrrr.

I can't get at an objection other than they are too f-ing stupid to understand what I am talking about. It seems to me a high percentage of business owners have never used a computer in the life, not even to get onto google. It's like strange magic they do not want to dabble in.

I am struggling getting on their wavelength, and to be honest after going round in circles a few times I start to lose my patience.

The thing is, I know Mungo is my ideal client. He will take the business, love the extra money and not be interested in how it works or finding someone else who can do it cheaper.

Any ideas on how to crack this particular customer type with zero tech knowledge or marketing savvy (i.e. the people who really need my help)?
#marketing #offline #ostriches
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    • Profile picture of the author 1960Texan
      Originally Posted by DogScout View Post

      Try charging
      He's right. Not being new to sales, you've probably heard the old saw, "perception is reality." Mungo doesn't put any value on your service because you're giving it away. Forget Mungo. Start fresh with someone new, and ask them how many thousands of dollars it would be worth to them to be ranked #1 in Google. Then charge them whatever with the assuarance that you won't do the same for one of their competitors. Then ask for referrals.

      Will
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    • Profile picture of the author Riz
      Totally agree.

      From the outset you are devaluing your service by working for FREE, even if on a %age of sales basis. That model rarely works.

      How are you approaching these prospects?

      Cold calling?
      Direct Mail?

      Riz

      Originally Posted by DogScout View Post

      Try charging
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      • Profile picture of the author GuerrillaIM
        Originally Posted by Riz View Post

        From the outset you are devaluing your service by working for FREE, even if on a %age of sales basis. That model rarely works.
        I don't work on percentage of sale. I certainly don't work for FREE. I'm not going to share my pricing method because it is part of my USP. It generally works well, I just find it hard to sell to people who don't have a clue. Typically the more clued up someone is, the easier I find it to relate to them and the easier to close and work out a good deal. For me it is all about lifetime value. That is not to say there aren't front end profits, but I have made myself different from everyone else for a reason.
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    • Profile picture of the author GuerrillaIM
      Originally Posted by DogScout View Post

      Try charging
      Thanks for the input. However, I am getting great response and the system is working well from other customer types. It is just a certain type of customer I cannot get through to, even though they are the ones who need me the most and will work out great long term partners.

      I can't see how saying "give me £2,000 upfront" will cure a technofobe and make them understand the internet is not a scary place. In any case, I have no interest in charging a flat fee and working on someone elses property. I would rather build the site first, list it and then sell it.
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  • Profile picture of the author GoGetta
    2 Things:

    Dogscout is write, offering for free is like one of those "too good to be true" things, and he/she will have probably heard what your saying many times before.

    Ok, now for what I would do:

    Either arrange to go and see him/her and get them in front of a PC with an internet connection. If you can't meet, arrange a phone convo where you are both in front of a PC.

    Then walk through what you are explaining.

    Show them stats (Keyword Tools etc.)


    Show them there competitors


    Show them examples of others you have done this for.


    By showing them on screen they see how it works, they understand what you are saying and they see there competitors doing it, and examples of you doing it for others!

    This works most of the time, and the close is easy once you do this. It is all about trust, at the moment, there is none. Taking the time out to show them and walk them through it on screen will plant the trust and show you know what you are talking about.

    Hope that helps!

    GoGetta


    P.S Try it, and see what happens!

    P.P.S Even though you may think he/she doesn't want to understand the process, you will find the sale/conversion is easy if you help them understand the process of what you are talking about. Showing them on screen helps to do this and makes things SUPER EASY for you!

    P.P.P.S I have been using this tactic for years. When I cold call, my aim is to setup a meeting to get them infront of the PC. Once I get the meeting, its simple from there regardless of how much the potential client understands!
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    • Profile picture of the author GuerrillaIM
      Originally Posted by GoGetta View Post

      Ok, now for what I would do:

      Either arrange to go and see him/her and get them in front of a PC with an internet connection. If you can't meet, arrange a phone convo where you are both in front of a PC.
      I tried that, it doesn't work. This isn't the majority of people I pitch, but it is surprisingly high. PC's, the internet, websites completely baffle them. They grew up without computers and have had no interest in them... Ever.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jagged
      Originally Posted by GoGetta View Post

      2 Things:

      Dogscout is write, offering for free is like one of those "too good to be true" things, and he/she will have probably heard what your saying many times before.

      Ok, now for what I would do:

      Either arrange to go and see him/her and get them in front of a PC with an internet connection. If you can't meet, arrange a phone convo where you are both in front of a PC.

      Then walk through what you are explaining.

      Show them stats (Keyword Tools etc.)

      Show them there competitors

      Show them examples of others you have done this for.

      By showing them on screen they see how it works, they understand what you are saying and they see there competitors doing it, and examples of you doing it for others!

      This works most of the time, and the close is easy once you do this. It is all about trust, at the moment, there is none. Taking the time out to show them and walk them through it on screen will plant the trust and show you know what you are talking about.
      This is exactly what I do on a regular basis. Education = confidence....confidence = trust & with you providing the education, the business owner's trust in you comes naturally.

      One other step I always show them is to "think like a customer would think when trying to find a business like his/hers"....what keywords & search terms would customers use most....have the owner briefly describe his/her business....from that basic description....highlight at least 4 - 5 keywords or phrases from that.....have the owner actually do a search using those keywords...if their business is not showing well in Google Places or in organic search results....explain to them...if you can not find your business....how do you expect customers to find you?

      Most times this is the "Ah-Haaa" moment for them...the moment when they realize that we need to talk...
      A lot of business owners have told me afterwards that they spoke with other marketing / local seo companies before.....no one explained in those terms before...so they can understand it all...

      Good luck,
      ~Ken
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  • Profile picture of the author GuerrillaIM
    I dont work for free by any means. I am having no trouble selling this to anyone who has the slightest clue how the internet works.

    I won't go into my exact pricing method but that is something that is negotiated in the close. With Mungo's, when I try to close them they crap their pants.

    If I can't find a way to get through to them, I will just develop a way to identify them quickly so I can move on. It just strikes me that there should be a good way to break through to computer illiterate people that I am missing.
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  • Profile picture of the author Shane N
    Ohhh the irony...

    I help offline businesses make more money from their websites and CHARGE them upfront (or half upfront) for specific services that are designed to increase their search engine rankings...

    However, most of them end up asking me if I would be willing to do the work for free and then earn a percentage of the new revenue... Basically if they make money, I'll make money. :confused:

    I guess you can't win! LOL. The people who you offer it to for free want to pay... and the people you want to charge want it for free... I might as well go try to pick up a few ostrich clients after all. They might actually get it!

    Best,
    Shane

    P.S. - Seriously though. I have much more success with paying clients.
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    • Profile picture of the author GuerrillaIM
      Originally Posted by Shane Natan View Post

      Ohhh the irony...

      I help offline businesses make more money from their websites and CHARGE them upfront (or half upfront) for specific services that are designed to increase their search engine rankings...

      However, most of them end up asking me if I would be willing to do the work for free and then earn a percentage of the new revenue... Basically if they make money, I'll make money. :confused:

      I guess you can't win! LOL. The people who you offer it to for free want to pay... and the people you want to charge want it for free... I might as well go try to pick up a few ostrich clients after all. They might actually get it!

      Best,
      Shane

      P.S. - Seriously though. I have much more success with paying clients.
      I have designed website/software for clients for the past 8 years. I always worked on a fee. The fact that after 8 years of working that way I decide to work this way might give you a hint that I am not a complete newbie and I am doing this for a reason.

      People seem to read my posts and have a little chuckle to themselves, "ooh, and here is me charging loads of money for my work, gosh aren't I stupid". Thanks for the sarcasm guys

      You don't know exactly how I charge, because I haven't told you. Yes, it is based on referrals (I havent said how referrals are measured) but it is working out well for me.

      I know that in this case it is not the money thats the issue. It's trying to explain the process to someone who can barely operate a TV, let alone understand internet marketing. These guys own high ticket businesses, but are more manual type people who have never used a PC and dont really want to either.
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  • Profile picture of the author DogScout
    Don't tell them the new customers are coming from the computer
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    • Profile picture of the author GuerrillaIM
      Originally Posted by DogScout View Post

      Don't tell them the new customers are coming from the computer
      Where would I say they are coming from?
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      • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
        Originally Posted by GuerrillaIM View Post

        Where would I say they are coming from?
        Why would Mungo care where they come from?

        In my opinion... based solely on what you've posted... you're
        pitching the wrong thing to the wrong people.

        Mungo is unsophisticated and not tech savvy. He will
        NEVER understand nor will he ever have any interest in
        learning. All Mungo wants is more business.

        The only answer I need from Mungo is how much he's willing
        to pay me for each referral I bring him. How I generate that
        referral isn't important to Mungo as long as it's legal.

        Pitch the result... not the method.

        Tsnyder
        Signature
        If you knew what I know you'd be doing what I do...
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  • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
    I'd suggest that you take a breather, and come back fresh. Careful about your attitude toward the prospect. It is NEVER the prospects fault they don't "get" your vision-you need to find a way to make it more tangible to them. As others suggested, you may have a credibility issue with them.

    I say, never, ever use words like "stupid", or "mungo" in describing the customer to yourself, or phrases like "get through to them". Much better to ask "how can I make my vision more real, more concrete to them?
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    • Profile picture of the author GuerrillaIM
      Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

      I say never, ever waste your time trying to sell morons. There are too many bright people to talk to. If I wanted to sell things to morons, I'd go to work at Walmart or some other hell hole where the customer is always right.

      Good sales people qualify their customers.
      I am not sure if you are suggesting I don't qualify the leads, but that is not the case I assure you.

      I always check they can handle the extra business, they are actively advertising and I only pick industries with a decent markup so I know they can afford to pay me and my backend system will work.

      I was perhaps a bit harsh. I meant to say people with zero computer knowledge and zero interest in computers, but running a business. I just had an extremely annoying presentation today with a guy who really did not have much going on upstairs which made me think of the name Mungo.

      I have had some clients in the past with zero computer knowledge that I managed to get through to somehow and they turned out to be the best clients you could ever ask for. Never asked questions, never complained, just told me what end result they wanted and let me go about it however I liked.

      I find them really tough nuts to crack, but because I have had some good experiences in past I want to keep trying.

      Reading back over my first post I was really just venting at the last presentation I did, most people are not stupid, just struggle to understand and lose interest as it is not their field. I get the same thing when my builder mates spend half an hour talking about cement.
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  • Profile picture of the author JustMint
    Mate, there are soooo many good potential customers/clients out there, I wouldn't obsess about getting through to one particular group. They clearly are not ideal for you, and therefore are not a good prospect.

    This business is very much as much about choosing your clients as much as them choosing you. Move on......next!
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    • Profile picture of the author ExRat
      Hi GuerrilllaIM,

      Use the 'human nature never lets you down' approach.

      Turn the PC on, fire up the browser, go to Google, punch in the keywords, then show them their competitors ranking high.

      They'll understand everything from there on in without any further explanation.
      Signature


      Roger Davis

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  • Profile picture of the author GuerrillaIM
    Hmmm, some great points guys.

    I have tried coming in from the angle of just talking about referrals, and usually they ask me "where would referrals be coming from". When I hear this I know its a buying sign and when I start to explain the process, if they understand it they start to get interested and ask more questions leading me into a close. I think if I didn't tell them where they are coming from I think I would lose all trust and credibility, and it would be hard to explain my pricing method.

    The last few posts have given me some good points to think on. I need to come more from an educational angle I think. In my opening questions at the moment I base it mainly on what marketing they are doing and if they are already making many enquiries from their website. I think I should alter this to ask them what exactly they know about the whole process and then on any points they are unsure on offer to explain a few things that can get them extra business. Will have to work out some careful wording here.

    It's rough workings but I think I am on right track. I had wrong attitude with them indeed and probably broke rapport soon as I started talking about things they didn't understand.

    Honestly, great advice! Thanks Guys
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    • Profile picture of the author ExRat
      Hi GuerrillaIM,

      I think I should alter this to ask them what exactly they know about the whole process
      Yes, do that but find out if they want to know about the process. You'll know this when you start explaining it and they glaze over, interrupt and change subject.

      If they want to know more, tell them (get them excited about it - not difficult usually).

      If they dont, go straight to talking about the results/benefits and how you track the referrals etc (again, get them excited about it).
      Signature


      Roger Davis

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  • Profile picture of the author GuerrillaIM
    Yeah good points Exrat. I will work in lots of questions to the explanations to make sure they are following and actually give a damn.

    Testing scripts is not the most fun thing in the world but after 50 or so presentations it should evolve
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  • Profile picture of the author Tom B
    Banned
    Originally Posted by GuerrillaIM View Post


    "Do you want extra customers and more business?"

    "Yes."

    "Is your current advertising working very well?"

    "No."

    "Would you like to get more business from the internet with no upfront development or marketing fees?"

    "Urrrghhh... mungo no undestand!!"
    Your talking over their heads with your last question.


    What are upfront development costs? Does that mean there might be development costs later?

    I don't want to be on the hook for development costs down the road.

    I heard it was expensive to get on the internet.


    What if I could get you more business at no cost to you? Would you be interested?

    I work based on how well I do for you.

    If I don't bring in more customers and more sales I don't get paid. It is in my best interest to make you more money so I make money.

    This is just off the top of my head here...

    I do know I got the same blind stares when I was into real estate investing. If I talked about the different ways I could purchase their house they froze, got scared and just said they would think about it.

    That meant I lost them because I got too technical.
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  • Profile picture of the author Cryp
    Hey Guerilla, try using different words. The model you are using DOES work. No results no fees - I like it. You are offering real value for your service. Try to not use the word "FREE" and replace it with "CONTINGENCY".

    "I will work on a contingency basis and for every dollar I make you, you pay me 25cents. Does that sound fair Mr Prospect?"

    Also, you have to make them see the benefit. Non internet folk are the hardest to sell, because they don't have the desire already for this type of service (even though you know how much it can do for them). Don't beat yourself up about this.

    Good luck and post up your results!
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  • Profile picture of the author Dexx
    If you are getting a 'No' or any other type of rejection there's only 3 possible reasons:

    1) They aren't qualified enough for your service (which doesnt just mean the business, it means the person you are talking to as well -- if you feel like you are talking to a brick wall then this can be a primary reason)

    2) They are confused / don't understand exactly what you are offering as a solution

    3) They don't like and/or trust you (whether its your personality or presentation)

    If your presentation has worked for the majority of sales, then I'd be willing to bet its #1 and/or #3...and if you have a less than 50% closing ratio then I'd be willing to bet its #2...

    Cheers,

    ~Dexx
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  • Profile picture of the author freudianslip27
    One thing I found through my presentations was that it can be difficult for us internet marketers to talk to people that don't understand "online stuff". I found myself so grounded and use to talking to people online, that translating this stuff can be challenging.

    I've found it is best to cut out as much technical junk as you can, and really focus on the results that you can bring. Making it plain, simple, and compelling is what this is all about.

    Matt
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  • Profile picture of the author jamespitt
    I think I've had a lot of the same problems over the years. It is painful when you know you can do a great job for someone, but they just don't 'get it'.
    I think one of the hardest things is taking what works in the US, and trying to do the same in the UK. People in the UK just don't believe (trust) enough, and it makes the whole process a lot more painful. Selling to someone you don't know in the UK is almost impossible. It is much easier once you have clients to start referrals from them. But - it is a bit of a chicken & egg problem.
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    • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
      Why bother killing yourself with people who don't want what you have to offer?

      If a certain type of prospect is happily buying from you then focus on those prospects.

      And if a certain type of prospect are a pain in the rear end then avoid them.

      Kindest regards,
      Andrew Cavanagh
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  • Profile picture of the author global1967
    hey,
    i like you ran into that sort of probl;em when i first started. But what you got to understand is that some business owners to not know how internet marketing, SEO or PPC etc works. So you have to talk to them in lay man's terms.

    Ask the customer "Do you want more customers"? he will say yes. If he asks you how. Then you will say by getting his phone to ring and or foot traffic through the door.

    They do not care or are bothered about 1st page of google rankings. It means nothing to them. all they want is the end results i.e more phone call enquires and more foot traffic through the door. Sort that out for them (spare them the detail) and they will pay ya.
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  • Profile picture of the author GuerrillaIM
    I got good advice in this thread. I have pretty much stopped talking about how I generate the business in my opening pitch and just focus on the fact that I will get them extra business and get my guarantees in early to put them at rest.
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  • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
    I read some of your posts re certain people and not being able to bend it like beckham, when ever that happens / as suggested the more you work on trying to get there there more they pull away.

    It is a bit like walking a dog / (very true) the more you pull the lead to stop them the more they pull the other way / its just natural for them to do this and people can react in much the same way to as soon as you feel them tugging the other way on the lead / let them go do not try and struggle street them in.

    So when pitching and you get these people put your self in retreat mode not more push / ask them if they may know of others (in that industry who would like some targeted lead gen / sales), while moving away, take away from the client / start to walk away from them / close it down sharp.

    In most cases they will get exited and stop you then and ask for you to explain more / now on your terms as they have asked for it, or you walk away and stop wasting time.
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  • Profile picture of the author GuerrillaIM
    This thread was started a while ago and I have greatly improved since then.

    I identified the problem was that I was used to dealing with prospects that had already seen my marketing and responded to me so they were warmed up and had a grip of the basics and were eager to learn more. When I'm calling cold I need to adjust my pitch drasticly.

    As soon as I realised this I put together a little warm up info to send through once I got a bite and stripped my opening pitch down to bare essentials. I.e., "I will generate you extra business, no money upfront, full guarantee for quality, are you interested?"

    Then at the start I still don't talk about the guts of it, I talk mainly about who I am and why they should trust me. I have found the crucial thing is not to divulge any information on how it works until they ask. I just tell them the benefit they will get, and when they start asking me questions I reply with my own questions and open up the sale.

    In the end it was a small adjustment but makes a big difference.
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