89 replies
Let's get it together guys, the big competition is moving in. I was fortunate enough to sit in on Frank Kern's 10k a seat "Millionaire Marketing Formulas" farewell ;-) ;-) seminar and near the end Frank was candid about his new ventures. One was him partnering with Jordon Belford working with offline clients. He bought a list of 34,000 independent plumbers for a mailing for his services which includes a website and more. ( this was confidential, sorry Frank). Just trying to get my warriors to take ACTION before it's too late.
#kern #offline
  • Profile picture of the author Chad Heffelfinger
    It is true, the more people realize the potential in this market the more people and big names or big businesses will jump in. That's why those of us who can, need to act now and get all we can out of this while the window is open.

    I am not saying the window is already closing, but we shouldn't wait and lose any opportunity that is sitting right in front of us.
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    • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
      Originally Posted by Chad Heffelfinger View Post

      It is true, the more people realize the potential in this market the more people and big names or big businesses will jump in. That's why those of us who can, need to act now and get all we can out of this while the window is open.

      I am not saying the window is already closing, but we shouldn't wait and lose any opportunity that is sitting right in front of us.
      I don't buy the whole get in now stuff, never have bought into hype, people work with people and anybody with the skill set and ability to form a relationship with business will be able to build their business.

      To many people focus on what other people are doing rather than building and worrying about they need to be doing.
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    • Profile picture of the author wbinst2
      You've hit the nail on the head right here. Why else would he do it.

      But i ain't buying a $2K Offline course no matter who's behind it.



      Originally Posted by healymedia View Post

      Unless of course he's only doing it to get some case studies under his belt for his next big online launch teaching IMers how to do the offline thing.
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    • Profile picture of the author BrainCopy
      Originally Posted by healymedia View Post

      Does anyone else see this as a WTF move?

      Kern is a guru in the IM community. Everyone knows his name and he could literally make a PDF of pictures of his craps and he'd have no problem getting people to buy it for $2k.

      Now he's going offline to target plumbers?

      Let's just say that Kern's "online" reputation does carry over to these plumbers and Kern stands out above the rest. What is he going to sell these plumbers? How much does he think he can pull in off of them? Or any other similarly sized local business for that matter?

      Either Kern is going to end up making far less than he does with his online launches and business or there are going to be a whole lot of plumbers and small local business massively over paying for things they don't need.

      Won't be long until we see videos of Bob Shumpawitz the local plumber driving around by the beach in his plumbing van and talking directly to the camera about how his toilet was clogged once too, but he found the cure, and now you can too!

      The most valuable asset Kern has is his name-recognition. And that only has value to one market and one set of customers. It ain't plumbers. To me, this seems like a big step in the wrong direction for Kern.

      Unless of course he's only doing it to get some case studies under his belt for his next big online launch teaching IMers how to do the offline thing.
      I really wouldn't say that the only thing he has is "Name Recognition" He's a smart dude. I wouldn't doubt that he is moving over to licensing marketing campaigns like Bob Serling. That's the only thing I could think of right now.

      Best Regards,
      Anthony La Tour
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      • Profile picture of the author WildGale
        Thank you for the discussion everyone. I am about to scale an idea and I am checking myself based on some of the experiences in this thread. It sure is easy to think something will work, go whole hog, and lose a lot of money. I've done that a time or two. I'm hoping the "time or two" help me with "three."
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  • Profile picture of the author Gladiator
    Plumbers are not IM people they don't care about Frank Kern! In the real biz world you can't just email hype and close a deal.

    I'm sure he will get a bunch of telemarketers to try and close these deals so there is allot of work and headaches to come!

    What does Frank Kern offer these plumbers that you can't offer? The brick and mortar biz owners don't take bull like we do here!! They might also run into some Frank Kern videos that I have seen that doesn't make him look very good with what he says!
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  • Profile picture of the author Boolade
    yea, it may seem like this market is super saturated, but its not by a long shot. people dont realize that there are much more prospects offline than online.
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    • Profile picture of the author TimCastleman
      I could care less what Frank does offline.

      He can't compete with me and what I offer.

      I'm local

      I'm known locally

      I have a track record


      Frank will get there eventually but my guess is Frank is interested in bigger fish.

      Either way stop worrying about Frank does and worry about what you do.

      Tim
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      • Profile picture of the author Bronwyn and Keith
        Hey Tim

        Well put.

        Plus he is likely to "target" the BIG end of town so that he pulls in the $1Million dollar paydays.

        And then sell a mass course to the uninitiated for 1000's.

        Let's just keep on doing what we do best - creating relationships and actually HELPING people.

        Regards

        Bronwyn and Keith

        Originally Posted by TimCastleman View Post

        I could care less what Frank does offline.

        He can't compete with me and what I offer.

        I'm local

        I'm known locally

        I have a track record


        Frank will get there eventually but my guess is Frank is interested in bigger fish.

        Either way stop worrying about Frank does and worry about what you do.

        Tim
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      • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
        Frank is looking to sell his product for thousands of dollars to a very small percentage of plumbers on that list.

        It won't be a Google Places listing for 500 to set up and a monthly promotion fee in the hundreds of dollars. I suspect he's going to offer the whole "whale" and charge lots for it.

        Right Frank?

        PS: Google alerts for the win, aye Frank?


        Originally Posted by TimCastleman View Post

        I could care less what Frank does offline.

        He can't compete with me and what I offer.

        I'm local

        I'm known locally

        I have a track record


        Frank will get there eventually but my guess is Frank is interested in bigger fish.

        Either way stop worrying about Frank does and worry about what you do.

        Tim
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  • Profile picture of the author V12
    I'm not going to lose any sleep over this. Even 100,000 Frank Kerns can't even begin to scratch the surface of the 'offline' part of the net.

    Abdul.
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  • Profile picture of the author MWGrubb58
    If you've got a name locally, you're going to do better than anyone coming in.
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    • Profile picture of the author Robert Domino
      Frank Kern isn't competition.

      He's not going to target 500k-2million companies like most offline consultants here do.

      Even if he did, it would be through a million subcontractors which means he has no competitive edge. What does "Frank Kern Marketing" mean to a plumber in Wyoming?

      As some people mentioned, his main asset is his name in the IM industry. Unless he meets them personally, they aren't going to hire his company any more than yours. And I doubt he's going to fly all over the US for 5-10k setup fees

      At most, he's going to sell some websites with auto-responders.
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  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    Frank Kern is a big dog in the world of internet marketing. He's a pipsqueak in the world of traditional marketing consulting.

    The #1 segment of business in this past year's Inc. 500 list was... marketing.

    Don't get me wrong, Frank is a smart guy and transitioning his business base is probably a good idea for him. But the reality is that in the giant world of B2B marketing consulting, the entire marketplace is hundreds of billions annually. There's room for many multiple players in a single vertical. If Frank gets some massive percentage of the US market share of plumbers, say... 5-10%... giant 400 pound gorilla market share... that means he has 3-4K clients, and will be completely covered up for the rest of his life.

    Delivering marketing services is very different than promoting digital products and shipping DVDs to people. It requires a real organization with real service delivery. That means a lot more limitation in the number of deals and amount of service that you provide.

    A lot of people are figuring out that outsourcing your social media posts to some offshore VA is a hell of a lot different than actually managing a project delivery team that meets consistent benchmarks of service for an ongoing client.

    It's not competition. It's validation that there's a massive market out there. But it will require a real business with real infrastruction and a real plan. If you think that you're going to sit back and do business with your monitor, you're going to be very disappointed in your career decision.

    A lot of "offliners" are also going to quickly figure out that there's deeply entrenched, very experienced players that have existed for a long time, and will require a lot more than some shady pitch to land customers. Just because someone discovers the market for themselves doesn't mean that it hasn't been around for a very long time. It's not new. It's old, and there are a lot of serious players.
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    • Profile picture of the author Robert Domino
      Originally Posted by MichaelHiles View Post

      A lot of "offliners" are also going to quickly figure out that there's deeply entrenched, very experienced players that have existed for a long time, and will require a lot more than some shady pitch to land customers. Just because someone discovers the market for themselves doesn't mean that it hasn't been around for a very long time. It's not new. It's old, and there are a lot of serious players.
      I like this golden nugget.

      As people who follow IM, we should know a whole lot more than the average Joe the plumber about IM and marketing in general.

      But just like every other industry, we suffer from path dependency. A quick but significant example is the importance of Clickbank on this forum. In the grand scheme of things, Clickbank is a very minor player on internet, but it looks important from within the info-product centric WF.

      I was watching some videos by Jay Abraham, the ones Dexx listed a while ago, and it's extremely similar to what Frank Kern's 2000$ courses are about.

      Same for Joel Bauer for example (the famous your business card is crap marketer).

      They all use the exact same concepts and strategies, except these guys have been around for decades longer than Frank Kern.

      In other words, it's pretty obvious that there are way bigger fishes than him out there already. It's not an attack on Frank Kern at all, I'm just noting, as Michael did, that from within a certain community things are magnified.

      Since I realized the path dependency problem a while back, it really helped me widen up my knowledge base by reading what people do in other industries.
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      • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
        Originally Posted by Robert Domino View Post

        I like this golden nugget.

        As people who follow IM, we should know a whole lot more than the average Joe the plumber about IM and marketing in general.

        But just like every other industry, we suffer from path dependency. A quick but significant example is the importance of Clickbank on this forum. In the grand scheme of things, Clickbank is a very minor player on internet, but it looks important from within the info-product centric WF.

        I was watching some videos by Jay Abraham, the ones Dexx listed a while ago, and it's extremely similar to what Frank Kern's 2000$ courses are about.

        Same for Joel Bauer for example (the famous your business card is crap marketer).

        They all use the exact same concepts and strategies, except these guys have been around for decades longer than Frank Kern.

        In other words, it's pretty obvious that there are way bigger fishes than him out there already. It's not an attack on Frank Kern at all, I'm just noting, as Michael did, that from within a certain community things are magnified.

        Since I realized the path dependency problem a while back, it really helped me widen up my knowledge base by reading what people do in other industries.

        And there are still traditional agencies to contend with as well!

        They aren't rolling over and playing dead. In fact, many of them are quite internet marketing and direct marketing savvy.

        I am a big fan of Gapingvoid | "Hugh MacLeod" Cartoons drawn on the back of business cards

        Then there's the web dev companies that have been in business since the 90s. They're not necessarily idiots either.

        One surefire way to get your behind handed to you in the market is to underestimate who is out there doing what.

        There IS a TON of opportunity. But people have to get out there and hustle... including Frank Kern.

        Selling to a plumber, where the big daddy in a market MIGHT be what? $2 million a year in sales? That's a heck of a lot different than selling to a bigger company. At that level, the sale is really not much different than selling to individuals, because even at $2 million, the company is probably pretty horizontal staffwise. You're dealing direct with the owner. That's an emotional sale a la "mom & pop". Not to far afield from where Frank has been selling already.

        Now if he were going to all of a sudden try to apply the direct sales letter approach with hard sales copy stuff in a more complex sales setting, I'd suggest that he's going to learn an expensive lesson and should start spending time with folks like Jill Konrath and Neil Rackham.
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  • Profile picture of the author J Bold
    Watch out for Kern's $2000+ course on Offline Mass Control next year.

    You really think he won't make one?
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  • Profile picture of the author davemiz
    c'mon guys... who cares?

    really.

    is any of this gonna help you make more money?

    The lesson here is to try sending offline sales letters to your customers and see if its profitable for you. (my guess is it could be).
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  • Profile picture of the author Quentin
    Hey we have been doing offline marketing for years and there are bigger players than him who have come into the market over the years.

    You can look at it as either a problem or an opportunity.

    As a smaller operator you can offer more personalized services as these big players often offer less for more.

    You can easily go in and offer more for less. They will provide you with the leads.

    For example in Australia True Local is an offshute of one of the big newspaper conglomerates and provide us with a lot of great leads as we can provide a whole website and services for almost the same price they provide one listing.

    Quentin
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  • Profile picture of the author TonyD
    Brunson's at it too... Maybe they are going offline because they know there's a lot of money in it and they also realise that the IM crowd are getting a tad fed up with their games.

    dotcomsecretslocal.com/go/
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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgeO7
    If Kern goes offline... Does this mean I will no longer be SPAMMED about Kern's product launches?
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  • Profile picture of the author John Callaghan
    Here's my theory....

    I don't think that Frank is really interested in selling marketing services to plumbers all over the country. He'll dabble in it just to build up a few good case studies but as far as a long term business focus I think he'd be bored stiff.

    I also don't think Frank is doing this just to sell another $2k package to internet marketers. That's chump change to him and if he wanted to do it he would already have his package on the market.

    My guess is that Frank and Jordan will be selling a consulting franchise opportunity to the millions of laid off business managers, executives and sales professionals. There are a lot of laid off business people who can't find a job and see self-employment as their best option. The market for consulting franchises is booming right now and it's very lucrative.

    From around 2000 to 2006 a company called Y2Marketing sold a marketing consulting business opportunity (basically a franchise). Their target market....laid off business people. When someone signed up they were told to target....local business owners who needed to reengineer their marketing. Sound familiar?

    Y2Marketing eventually self-destructed but not before selling roughly 1,400 franchises at $25,000 each. If my math is correct....that's $35,000,000. They also took between 10% and 30% of each consultants revenues as a royalty fee.

    I suspect Frank and Jordan will follow a similar model and sell an Internet Marketing Consulting franchise. They'll run their new franchise owners through an bootcamp style training program and then certify them as "IM Experts". Of course they won't know squat because they will have never done it.

    To pull this off they'll need to build a core team of people to deliver the technical aspects of the consulting work (websites, seo, etc). Then they'll sell the business opportunity to people saying "you sell it and manage the client relationship while our technical team delivers the results for you".

    That's my theory....he's not going to sell a $2k package to us...he's going to sell a $25k (or higher) business opportunity package to a bigger market and then take a slice of all revenues.

    Time will tell....

    John
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    • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
      This could be true but it does not jive with the statement that Franky bought a list of plumbers, if that's true.



      Originally Posted by John Callaghan View Post

      Here's my theory....

      I don't think that Frank is really interested in selling marketing services to plumbers all over the country. He'll dabble in it just to build up a few good case studies but as far as a long term business focus I think he'd be bored stiff.

      I also don't think Frank is doing this just to sell another $2k package to internet marketers. That's chump change to him and if he wanted to do it he would already have his package on the market.

      My guess is that Frank and Jordan will be selling a consulting franchise opportunity to the millions of laid off business managers, executives and sales professionals. There are a lot of laid off business people who can't find a job and see self-employment as their best option. The market for consulting franchises is booming right now and it's very lucrative.

      From around 2000 to 2006 a company called Y2Marketing sold a marketing consulting business opportunity (basically a franchise). Their target market....laid off business people. When someone signed up they were told to target....local business owners who needed to reengineer their marketing. Sound familiar?

      Y2Marketing eventually self-destructed but not before selling roughly 1,400 franchises at $25,000 each. If my math is correct....that's $35,000,000. They also took between 10% and 30% of each consultants revenues as a royalty fee.

      I suspect Frank and Jordan will follow a similar model and sell an Internet Marketing Consulting franchise. They'll run their new franchise owners through an bootcamp style training program and then certify them as "IM Experts". Of course they won't know squat because they will have never done it.

      To pull this off they'll need to build a core team of people to deliver the technical aspects of the consulting work (websites, seo, etc). Then they'll sell the business opportunity to people saying "you sell it and manage the client relationship while our technical team delivers the results for you".

      That's my theory....he's not going to sell a $2k package to us...he's going to sell a $25k (or higher) business opportunity package to a bigger market and then take a slice of all revenues.

      Time will tell....

      John
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      • Profile picture of the author Vincenzo Oliva
        Here is the mailer that he sent out, it's a newpaper insert with stocks on the back and the classic "kern" post it note from "J". Everyone knows a "J" right?

        It stresses the need and offers a solution. Starts with a free report and a call to a website.

        Under the postit it says "to Kill 7,164. 2010 But Free Report
        ....................................How Some Plumbers are Having the Best Year Ever"

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        • Profile picture of the author Robert Domino
          The address in question seems to be:

          http://www.plumbermoney.com/

          They do an A/B test so you will be redirected either to:

          http://www.plumbermoney.com/1.html
          or
          http://www.plumbermoney.com/2.html

          They're using the opt-in page Kern gave out in one of his courses.
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          • Profile picture of the author Vincenzo Oliva
            Originally Posted by Robert Domino View Post

            The address in question seems to be:

            Your Page Title

            They do an A/B test so you will be redirected either to:

            Warning!
            or
            Warning!

            They're using the opt-in page Kern gave out in one of his courses.
            Awesome Robert, I have that template from some course I must swipe the copy ;-) (Shucks, Kern himself admits he steals from Diess and Pagan).

            BTW, he also admitted that his mastermind (which happens to be the whos who..Diess, Pagen, Reese, Walker....) Schedule their launches up to 12 months in advance around each other so they can keep the suckers like me reaching for their wallet instead of becoming their competition. (well he didn't say that part but you get the picture.)
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    • Profile picture of the author Pauli7143
      That's actually a pretty good idea...I figure that is where the guys from TG are headed also

      Paul


      Originally Posted by John Callaghan View Post

      Here's my theory....

      I don't think that Frank is really interested in selling marketing services to plumbers all over the country. He'll dabble in it just to build up a few good case studies but as far as a long term business focus I think he'd be bored stiff.

      I also don't think Frank is doing this just to sell another $2k package to internet marketers. That's chump change to him and if he wanted to do it he would already have his package on the market.

      My guess is that Frank and Jordan will be selling a consulting franchise opportunity to the millions of laid off business managers, executives and sales professionals. There are a lot of laid off business people who can't find a job and see self-employment as their best option. The market for consulting franchises is booming right now and it's very lucrative.

      From around 2000 to 2006 a company called Y2Marketing sold a marketing consulting business opportunity (basically a franchise). Their target market....laid off business people. When someone signed up they were told to target....local business owners who needed to reengineer their marketing. Sound familiar?

      Y2Marketing eventually self-destructed but not before selling roughly 1,400 franchises at $25,000 each. If my math is correct....that's $35,000,000. They also took between 10% and 30% of each consultants revenues as a royalty fee.

      I suspect Frank and Jordan will follow a similar model and sell an Internet Marketing Consulting franchise. They'll run their new franchise owners through an bootcamp style training program and then certify them as "IM Experts". Of course they won't know squat because they will have never done it.

      To pull this off they'll need to build a core team of people to deliver the technical aspects of the consulting work (websites, seo, etc). Then they'll sell the business opportunity to people saying "you sell it and manage the client relationship while our technical team delivers the results for you".

      That's my theory....he's not going to sell a $2k package to us...he's going to sell a $25k (or higher) business opportunity package to a bigger market and then take a slice of all revenues.

      Time will tell....

      John
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  • Profile picture of the author sdentrepreneur
    Kern can keep the Plumbers, I will stick with the small to large corporations that don't bat an eye paying $2,500 to $10,000 per month.
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    • Profile picture of the author myob
      Originally Posted by sdentrepreneur View Post

      Kern can keep the Plumbers, I will stick with the small to large corporations that don't bat an eye paying $2,500 to $10,000 per month.
      LOL! Some of us have been working offline long before there even was an online!
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  • Profile picture of the author Shane Hale
    I bet he will have (insert creative name here) control 1st quarter of next year. He is working with Kevin Nations as well for offline and local marketing type stuff. I remember after mass control this rumor being started by him. I don't see him leaving anytime soon. He likes to promote scarcity with his man behind the curtain mystery tactics. He will be around trust me.
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  • Profile picture of the author Vincenzo Oliva
    I opted in for his "Plumbers Money Free Report" and it's basically a classic 22 page Kern sales letter. Promises promises Frank, where's the "cool valuable stuff" you always preach?
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  • Profile picture of the author Shane Hale
    I actually talked to Jim Garafolo (The Guy in the report) on the phone via a scheduled appointment with Kern's office. He works for Kern. He used to be a Ny stock broker back in the day. He now works in Kern's office on this project which is also tied to Kevin Nations.

    My biggest question is with the scarcity. Make sure you call us before your region is taken. Are they just teaching Plumbers a info product on how to promote their business or a spot on some pre-designed web page that can get them local rankings.

    I got the appointment by a direct mail to me with a dollar bill on it. I was curious and paid the 97 dollars for a 1 on 1 coaching appointment. Which the whole conversation was a pitch to pay more money for marketing to plumbers offline. I never really got any specifics on this.
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert Domino
    The good thing is, by seeing the A/B test, we'll know which one wins

    The first one has longer copy, while the second one is almost only a headline.
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  • Profile picture of the author bonn
    Originally Posted by Vincenzo Oliva View Post

    Let's get it together guys, the big competition is moving in. I was fortunate enough to sit in on Frank Kern's 10k a seat "Millionaire Marketing Formulas" farewell ;-) ;-) seminar and near the end Frank was candid about his new ventures. One was him partnering with Jordon Belford working with offline clients. He bought a list of 34,000 independent plumbers for a mailing for his services which includes a website and more. ( this was confidential, sorry Frank). Just trying to get my warriors to take ACTION before it's too late.
    Wow --- i didnt have any idea who Kern was --- but now i do --- wow
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  • Profile picture of the author davemiz
    hate to break it to ya... actually that squeeze is mine. :-)
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    • Profile picture of the author frank-kern
      You guys have given me some great ideas in this thread, thank you! Believe it or not, I never thought to release a course on offline marketing.

      The boring truth is I've been working my way out of the IM market for some time and plan to be completely out in 2011.

      The reason why is I really enjoy working with non IM businesses. When you work with a company that has momentum, tiny shifts can yield big results and that's very exciting to take part in.

      Plus, I've been in IM for 11 years. I'd like to try something new for a while. See if I can make it offline ...and without using my name recognition.

      It's been going well so far.

      I just got to sit in a board meeting for one of the top 10 Realty companies in the world and that was amazing. (Even wore shoes!)

      As far as the plumbers go, that test was unsuccessful.

      The tearsheet that Vince shared did a great job of generating leads but sales conversions were fair but not great.

      As an aside, the version that was shared is an old version. The later version excluded the website and just listed a phone number.

      That worked a little better since the sale was made over the phone.

      I chose plumbers kind of at random - not the best approach to market research!

      Other offline tests have been better.

      Also - the service we were selling was a complete done-for-you Internet Marketing Package. We wrote the adwords ads, bought the traffic, managed it all, and so forth.

      Margins weren't nearly as good as selling consulting though :-)
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      • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
        There is a particular demographic with in the construction industry that does convert "VERY" well for services like you mentioned.

        Obviously the key is finding and talking to that sub niche within the industry.

        It is a great feeling to help a company make small changes and see outstanding results, being a retired brick and mortar business owner I would have killed for that myself!



        Originally Posted by frank-kern View Post

        You guys have given me some great ideas in this thread, thank you! Believe it or not, I never thought to release a course on offline marketing.

        The boring truth is I've been working my way out of the IM market for some time and plan to be completely out in 2011.

        The reason why is I really enjoy working with non IM businesses. When you work with a company that has momentum, tiny shifts can yield big results and that's very exciting to take part in.

        Plus, I've been in IM for 11 years. I'd like to try something new for a while. See if I can make it offline ...and without using my name recognition.

        It's been going well so far.

        I just got to sit in a board meeting for one of the top 10 Realty companies in the world and that was amazing. (Even wore shoes!)

        As far as the plumbers go, that test was unsuccessful.

        The tearsheet that Vince shared did a great job of generating leads but sales conversions were fair but not great.

        As an aside, the version that was shared is an old version. The later version excluded the website and just listed a phone number.

        That worked a little better since the sale was made over the phone.

        I chose plumbers kind of at random - not the best approach to market research!

        Other offline tests have been better.

        Also - the service we were selling was a complete done-for-you Internet Marketing Package. We wrote the adwords ads, bought the traffic, managed it all, and so forth.

        Margins weren't nearly as good as selling consulting though :-)
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      • Profile picture of the author Robert Domino
        Originally Posted by frank-kern View Post

        Plus, I've been in IM for 11 years. I'd like to try something new for a while. See if I can make it offline ...and without using my name recognition.

        It's been going well so far.
        Thanks Frank for clarifying, and if you read this, good luck with your offline stuff.

        I'm pretty sure everyone here knows the "wandering" syndrome most entrepreneurs have. Always thinking of new ideas and wanting to do something different.

        "Retiring" so suddenly rose a lot more questions than it should have though.
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      • Profile picture of the author Dwight Anthony
        Good to hear it from the source as opposed to all of these speculative guesses on here. I remember being in an offline seminar and the speaker mentioned Frank Kearn, a majority of the people started clapping so he's got a good reputation online as well as off.


        Originally Posted by frank-kern View Post

        You guys have given me some great ideas in this thread, thank you! Believe it or not, I never thought to release a course on offline marketing.

        The boring truth is I've been working my way out of the IM market for some time and plan to be completely out in 2011.

        The reason why is I really enjoy working with non IM businesses. When you work with a company that has momentum, tiny shifts can yield big results and that's very exciting to take part in.

        Plus, I've been in IM for 11 years. I'd like to try something new for a while. See if I can make it offline ...and without using my name recognition.

        It's been going well so far.

        I just got to sit in a board meeting for one of the top 10 Realty companies in the world and that was amazing. (Even wore shoes!)

        As far as the plumbers go, that test was unsuccessful.

        The tearsheet that Vince shared did a great job of generating leads but sales conversions were fair but not great.

        As an aside, the version that was shared is an old version. The later version excluded the website and just listed a phone number.

        That worked a little better since the sale was made over the phone.

        I chose plumbers kind of at random - not the best approach to market research!

        Other offline tests have been better.

        Also - the service we were selling was a complete done-for-you Internet Marketing Package. We wrote the adwords ads, bought the traffic, managed it all, and so forth.

        Margins weren't nearly as good as selling consulting though :-)
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        • Profile picture of the author Robert Domino
          Originally Posted by paulie888 View Post

          Unless this was a large plumbing services company with multiple branches, a small plumbing firm is most likely going to balk at a high priced continuity type service. Try to put yourself in their shoes - unless you could clearly justify your monthly fees to them in terms of ROI (not an easy task, in my opinion), I think you'd have a tough time selling them a $2000+ a month marketing service.
          Frank's buddy, Bob Serling, recommends doing the first customer almost free. That way, they have very limited risk so they have no reason to say no. Then you can leverage that ROI "our test plumber's business gained 25% in 2 months!" to future prospects.


          Originally Posted by ktlasm View Post

          What amuses me about the mystery of what he is or isn't doing, and how it will or won't work is such a big deal.
          "Speculation about another mans opportunity makes an ass out of you"

          But, why the obsession per se of what any boss in the IM game does.
          It's part curiosity and part research. Frank Kern is simply one of the people that have set the standards in IM. Who DOESN'T want to have great video promos like he does, for example?

          One of the quickest ways to be successful is to model after already successful businesses.

          Sure, there are a lot of billionaire innovators (ie Gates, Zuckerberg, Jobs/Apple etc), but for most people like us the best bet is to copy/model after proven ventures. Frank Kern = proven IM venture = people want to reverse engineer the success.
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          • Profile picture of the author Bronwyn and Keith
            Hey Robert

            That is exactly the process we used initially - except we did 2 for free.

            What that did is expand the customers view and gave us an opportunity to make that first sale.

            Regards

            Bronwyn and Keith
            Originally Posted by Robert Domino View Post

            Frank's buddy, Bob Serling, recommends doing the first customer almost free. That way, they have very limited risk so they have no reason to say no. Then you can leverage that ROI "our test plumber's business gained 25% in 2 months!" to future prospects.
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          • Profile picture of the author paulie888
            Originally Posted by Robert Domino View Post

            Frank's buddy, Bob Serling, recommends doing the first customer almost free. That way, they have very limited risk so they have no reason to say no. Then you can leverage that ROI "our test plumber's business gained 25% in 2 months!" to future prospects.
            Well, I agree that doing free or almost free work in the beginning is a great way to build up awesome case studies. Plumbers may be great to use as free case studies initially, but I still feel that many will balk at the cost when you start marketing your regular full-cost services to them.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ryan Shaw
    Get on my list and you will make a billion dollars instantly. Frank Kern Internet Marketing
    Thanks Frank for this post! I'm glad you jumped in since this whole thread is about what you are doing.

    It shows that you are human too. I first jumped in trying to sell chiropractors and I had no idea what to offer and what to charge and I failed. Nice to know I wasn't the only one to start off targeting a group of prospects with disappointing results!
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  • Profile picture of the author Voasi
    It's funny, when pitching SEO to people, if you start talking about Danny Sullivan to anyone outside this space, they have no clue. We're just so hyper-funneled that we make a big deal about this type of stuff.

    There are tons of marketing companies out there, all the way up to agencies like RazorFish that are competing for big marketing budgets and everyone in-between. Just because Frank Kern is jumping in, doesn't mean the "Sky is Falling" and we better get in while the getting is good. Just means the market will get better and the services will get better for clients.

    Thanks Frank for actually swinging by and clarifying. It's a fun market and as I've always loved doing IM stuff, but I REALLY enjoy working with B2B/B2C clients. It's so fulfilling to help a business grow 50-100% (or more) from the work I did for them!
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    • Profile picture of the author frank-kern
      Dan Sullivan is awesome.

      Yeah - I think every member of WF could all go into the B2B market and we wouldn't overlap.

      (Damn, that would make for an amazing mastermind group!)

      Anyway - one main reason I like B2B is they actually DO what you tell them!

      Oh - and to further clarify - there's no way in a million years that I would sell someone a "Marketing Consultant" franchise. For any amount of money.
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      • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
        True DAT! The B2B market is cosmic its so huge!

        Isn't some one else promoting a Marketing Consultant franchise? Just recently I think.

        Originally Posted by frank-kern View Post

        Dan Sullivan is awesome.

        Yeah - I think every member of WF could all go into the B2B market and we wouldn't overlap.

        (Damn, that would make for an amazing mastermind group!)

        Anyway - one main reason I like B2B is they actually DO what you tell them!

        Oh - and to further clarify - there's no way in a million years that I would sell someone a "Marketing Consultant" franchise. For any amount of money.
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      • Profile picture of the author John Callaghan
        Originally Posted by frank-kern View Post


        Oh - and to further clarify - there's no way in a million years that I would sell someone a "Marketing Consultant" franchise. For any amount of money.
        Dang! There goes my theory....shot down already :-)

        Oh well...good luck Frank with your offline ventures. The B2B world will never be the same (and that's a good thing)
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      • Profile picture of the author Bronwyn and Keith
        Hey Frank

        Who let you in here...LOL

        By the way - agree totally with your comment that we highlighted below.

        Tons of room for everyone - especially given that less than 10% of people take [REAL] action.

        Regards

        Bronwyn and Keith


        Originally Posted by frank-kern View Post

        Dan Sullivan is awesome.

        Yeah - I think every member of WF could all go into the B2B market and we wouldn't overlap.

        (Damn, that would make for an amazing mastermind group!)

        Anyway - one main reason I like B2B is they actually DO what you tell them!

        Oh - and to further clarify - there's no way in a million years that I would sell someone a "Marketing Consultant" franchise. For any amount of money.
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        • Profile picture of the author Bronwyn and Keith
          Hi Jsamson

          Yep - got it in one.

          We do a [Minimum] of 5 pre-arranged face-to-face appointments each week.

          Funny thing is....IT WORKS.

          Regards

          Bronwyn and Keith
          Originally Posted by JsamsonNJ View Post

          No one should worry about any of this....

          You must stop doing business from your PC if you want to be successful in this business...You may have to actually visit someone!!!!
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          • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
            Hey I am so glad to hear that your meeting Face 2 Face. Don't if feel good to go in and shut them down and close them like a big dog?

            Originally Posted by bronke13 View Post

            Hi Jsamson

            Yep - got it in one.

            We do a [Minimum] of 5 pre-arranged face-to-face appointments each week.

            Funny thing is....IT WORKS.

            Regards

            Bronwyn and Keith
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            • Profile picture of the author Bronwyn and Keith
              Hey Rus

              In answer to your Question ---- WOOF.

              Regards

              Bronwyn and Keith
              Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

              Hey I am so glad to hear that your meeting Face 2 Face. Don't if feel good to go in and shut them down and close them like a big dog?
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      • Profile picture of the author Vagabond 007
        Originally Posted by frank-kern View Post

        Oh - and to further clarify - there's no way in a million years that I would sell someone a "Marketing Consultant" franchise. For any amount of money.
        Curious....why? Too much work?

        Also, you can take your tearsheet and turn it into an FSI (free standing insert). You probably know what that is, but just in case, your tearsheet gets printed on either a glossy type of paper (think magazine style) or goldenrod stock instead of newsprint.

        This then gets inserted into a newspaper or magazine so it "falls out" when a person is going through it.

        I'm sure there is some type of plumbing trade magazine/newsletter that you can test this in. I know that you know how to find them.

        Just a thought.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
    By the way there is a different "phrase" for SEO/IM. When using this one phrase correctly and at the right time, you'll have a B&M owner hanging on your every word.
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  • Profile picture of the author Voasi
    Originally Posted by frank-kern

    Dan Sullivan is awesome.
    Yes, he IS! He works out at my gym in Orange County... Newport Beach. We got good surf here buddy... 52nd street...check it out!
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  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    The B2B market is indeed massive. Gargantuan. Ginormous even.

    There are also a lot of existing players already in the space that really, actually, truly do know what they're doing. They've also been doing it for a long time, and aren't just going to run away screaming like a school girl because an army of internet marketers, armed with the latest ebook WSO barge into the marketplace.

    So a lot of the folks dreaming of the "offline space" beyond their cousin's dwindling DVD rental shop should be aware of the reality vs. hogging down the dreamsauce like it's a faerieland nirvana of untapped riches.

    Frank, even you're already learning that it's a very different game. But you sound like you're up to the challenge - not to mention, able to come to the table with some resources and an organization.

    I've been preaching this gospel for a very long time now.

    There's a big gap between the picture painted with the intention of selling someone a how-to manual for becoming a marketing consultant (I know, I've bought a few WSOs... not offline gold... freaking comedy gold) and the reality of actually being in the market, doing exactly what everyone is talking about here for over 20 years.

    It's like a jungle sometimes it makes me wonder how I keep from going under...
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    • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
      Your right, there are a lot of players out there already entrenched if you will in the offline market.

      The ones I heard from the most were those calling and opening with a pathetic attempt at closing me with the....

      "We know your web site is not on the first page of Google, we GUARANTEE we will get you on the first page".

      .....one liner!

      There is a lot of stuff that gets purveyed that shows people methods to make money, what services to offer and so on...

      Sadly many folks with a dream will most likely fail at some point because one the most important ingredients to being successful in business is knowing what a business actually is and how to run it well.

      I know a couple who are multimillionaires over! 20 million plus a year as an insurance restoration contractor. The deal is that these great people don't really know who to run a business, its like which crises is most important and we'll focus all our efforts there today.

      They really are just one big huge marketing company who can sell their asses off which is really the only thing keeping them going. Its like a vicious cycle they are caught in!

      However, some of their peers who have mastered all other fundamentals of business are grossing 100 million a year plus in the same industry competing in the same cities.

      The offline market is huge and like you said there are a lot of products promoting the dream, and the reality is that the opportunity is assuredly there and the right people will make successful businesses working in person with some great local business owners.

      As a local business owner my very first criteria is to find another local business owner who provides the services I need. If I need my roof repaired I don't even think of calling a roofer the next state over!

      I firmly believe those who go out and establish business relationships with local business owners by seeing them in person will have the greatest measure of success at the local level.

      If I were off-lining as it were I'd be consulting business owners on the kinds of things that Schefren talks about.



      Originally Posted by MichaelHiles View Post

      The B2B market is indeed massive. Gargantuan. Ginormous even.

      There are also a lot of existing players already in the space that really, actually, truly do know what they're doing. They've also been doing it for a long time, and aren't just going to run away screaming like a school girl because an army of internet marketers, armed with the latest ebook WSO barge into the marketplace.

      So a lot of the folks dreaming of the "offline space" beyond their cousin's dwindling DVD rental shop should be aware of the reality vs. hogging down the dreamsauce like it's a faerieland nirvana of untapped riches.

      Frank, even you're already learning that it's a very different game. But you sound like you're up to the challenge - not to mention, able to come to the table with some resources and an organization.

      I've been preaching this gospel for a very long time now.

      There's a big gap between the picture painted with the intention of selling someone a how-to manual for becoming a marketing consultant (I know, I've bought a few WSOs... not offline gold... freaking comedy gold) and the reality of actually being in the market, doing exactly what everyone is talking about here for over 20 years.

      It's like a jungle sometimes it makes me wonder how I keep from going under...
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      • Profile picture of the author Shane Hale
        True, it is all about taking action. I have been doing IM for awhile and made some change here and there. The most money I have made has been providing seo services for offline companies.

        I just did one for a hvac company and it went well. Offline is huge and I think Frank is doing it right. I just got a cool secret report from Jay Styles aka Jose Rivera it was really decent most of the offline strategies are very similiar and powerful. You have to get the clients who can afford to pay you. If not you will be in the hole.

        Roofers,Dentist,Chiropractors,Massage therapists and anyone that can afford 350 to 1500 a month for marketing is what you want to target and build off of.
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        • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
          Glad I am not in the roofing business any longer! YAY!




          Originally Posted by Shane Hale View Post

          True, it is all about taking action. I have been doing IM for awhile and made some change here and there. The most money I have made has been providing seo services for offline companies.

          I just did one for a hvac company and it went well. Offline is huge and I think Frank is doing it right. I just got a cool secret report from Jay Styles aka Jose Rivera it was really decent most of the offline strategies are very similiar and powerful. You have to get the clients who can afford to pay you. If not you will be in the hole.

          Roofers,Dentist,Chiropractors,Massage therapists and anyone that can afford 350 to 1500 a month for marketing is what you want to target and build off of.
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        • Profile picture of the author ktlasm
          Maaaaaan look... Frank Kern is cool, and he's done his thing. For that, he's a boss player in the IM game.

          What amuses me about the mystery of what he is or isn't doing, and how it will or won't work is such a big deal. Now, I haven't been online for 11yrs as Frank has, but I've been online since 04 and was one of Corey Rudl's students. Had to chance to speak with him on more than several occasions. The point is, is that I'll never forget what Corey said that still reigns true today.

          "Speculation about another mans opportunity makes an ass out of you"

          I didn't really understand then, but understand it fully now. As I've grown in this game, and have done damn well for myself. I see it as clear as day more than ever.

          It's some pretty cool folks in this thread and by no means am I knocking any of you. We're all in the game together. But, why the obsession per se of what any boss in the IM game does. Hell, this is just my random rant insertion on a topic I feel is relevant for the cause.

          I don't care if Frank offered offline marketing to the ladies of the night(ho's)...All I know is what ever he's done has worked for him and damn sure created a following unmatched in the world of IM.

          I dig the dude, but I don't "d" ride... I appreciate the stuff I've learned from him and wish him well in whatever he does. Ok, I'm out-tee 5000.

          Peace, Team
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          I'm pretty cool if I say so myself...lol, and I know my stuff, folks. I'm 31 years old and I'm full, full, full time on the internet. No part timing around this way...I'm here because I simply enjoy spreading as much love & light as I possibly can. Check me out on facebook,& say Hi. http://www.facebook.com/kevingmadison or twitter http://www.twitter.com/kevinmadison

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      • Profile picture of the author MWGrubb58
        Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

        The offline market is huge and like you said there are a lot of products promoting the dream, and the reality is that the opportunity is assuredly there and the right people will make successful businesses working in person with some great local business owners.

        As a local business owner my very first criteria is to find another local business owner who provides the services I need. If I need my roof repaired I don't even think of calling a roofer the next state over!

        I firmly believe those who go out and establish business relationships with local business owners by seeing them in person will have the greatest measure of success at the local level.
        Talking to folks face-to-face will get you more business fast , than ANYTHING I can think of. It's the relationship you are building.

        One of my students is going to town talking to local business owners, right and left... and making good progress.

        When it is all said and done, a person will buy because they believe in YOU and what they believe YOU can do. You can close wrong, dress wrong, talk wrong, and do a lot of things wrong.... BUT, if a person likes you and trusts you... they'll buy!

        Just get out and talk to some folks.

        Cheers,

        Millard
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        • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
          The wrong perspective is that we are selling "something", we are not.

          We are selling ourselves and once this is accomplished it won't matter what it is your offering.


          Originally Posted by MWGrubb58 View Post

          Talking to folks face-to-face will get you more business fast , than ANYTHING I can think of. It's the relationship you are building.

          One of my students is going to town talking to local business owners, right and left... and making good progress.

          When it is all said and done, a person will buy because they believe in YOU and what they believe YOU can do. You can close wrong, dress wrong, talk wrong, and do a lot of things wrong.... BUT, if a person likes you and trusts you... they'll buy!

          Just get out and talk to some folks.

          Cheers,

          Millard
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  • Profile picture of the author Vincenzo Oliva
    Sorry Frank, we're just trying steal as much of your stuff as possible. I should have known Frank Kern has a google alert set up for "Frank Kern". You're just getting some of us nervous with your crossover ventures. Don't worry, we won't go after your 100K Australian client. ;-)
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    • Profile picture of the author frank-kern
      Well dude - make sure it WORKS before you steal it! That lead gen piece did its job well. So steal that if you want.
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  • Profile picture of the author Vincenzo Oliva
    Fun and jokes aside, based on this post alone, there are youngsters who aren't familiar with Frank Kern. Just let me say, Frank is the best in the business by far (that's why we follow him and rip him off as much as possible ;-).

    Save your lunch money and buy "Mass Control". It is really the only course you will every need to become a world class successful Marketer. Frank let it all hang out in his teachings and the secrets to long term success are all clearly laid out in a step-by-step fashion.

    Back to the Plumbers, as Frank indicated, the conversions weren't all that good.
    When I think about plumbers and their business I don't see a high CLV. Think about it, how many times have you needed to call a plumber? There's also no continuity involved. I really don't believe plumbers are all that motivated to invest in their marketing as are not roofers. They want steady work but they really don't want to be inundated with customer backlog.
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  • Profile picture of the author paulie888
    As Frank has pointed out in this thread, he just randomly decided to target plumbers as a marketing test, but I already knew that the conversions weren't going to be the greatest especially with higher priced IM services (i.e. $2000+ per month and up).

    Unless this was a large plumbing services company with multiple branches, a small plumbing firm is most likely going to balk at a high priced continuity type service. Try to put yourself in their shoes - unless you could clearly justify your monthly fees to them in terms of ROI (not an easy task, in my opinion), I think you'd have a tough time selling them a $2000+ a month marketing service.
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  • Profile picture of the author CityCliq
    Whatever he ends up doing, I'm looking forward to hearing about Kern's offline adventures. Some of my colleagues have been enormously successful offline for over 10 years, and they know that there's always room for innovation.
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  • Profile picture of the author sb
    There's a whole boatload of misinformation here. I've been in this business since the early 90's so I know this for a fact.

    Be careful of what advice you take.
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    • Profile picture of the author Shane Hale
      Originally Posted by sb View Post

      There's a whole boatload of misinformation here. I've been in this business since the early 90's so I know this for a fact.

      Be careful of what advice you take.
      Welcome to the internet.
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    • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
      WOW! That was a great contribution! Why would any one take what you just said with any level of seriousness if you don't contribute. huh?

      Originally Posted by sb View Post

      There's a whole boatload of misinformation here. I've been in this business since the early 90's so I know this for a fact.

      Be careful of what advice you take.
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      • Profile picture of the author sb
        Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

        WOW! That was a great contribution! Why would any one take what you just said with any level of seriousness if you don't contribute. huh?
        WOW, yourself. I just read every post you made here and they're nothing more than filler along with cute little ":p" things and a couple of points that have been regurgitated over and over again for decades.

        I'm sorry if I hit your sensitive button but you weren't one of them I was talking about because you didn't say a whole lot that had much meaning in all of those posts you made.

        However, THIS is nonsensical: "We are selling ourselves and once this is accomplished it won't matter what it is your offering." Do you think those are words of wisdom or something? Oh, I know the point you're TRYING to make but it DOES matter what you're offering. It matters a whole lot.

        You see, I'm not here to push WSO's as is your intention.

        It's amusing to watch how some of you play the game of building up your post count with meaningless drivel and idle chit-chat that doesn't amount to a hill of beans, all in an attempt to draw attention to your very own, brand new, super exciting WSO.

        Carry on there, "guru"...
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        • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
          You know what? I was going to continue this "FLAME BAIT" but your not worth my time.

          Cary on there, "Mr. Look out every one there's a lot of misinformation being thrown around here but I don't care to offer anything of value to counter it"

          PS: You don't have any WSO's to sell because you've been busy buying them from gurus. haha


          Originally Posted by sb View Post

          WOW, yourself. I just read every post you made here and they're nothing more than filler along with cute little ":p" things and a couple of points that have been regurgitated over and over again for decades.

          I'm sorry if I hit your sensitive button but you weren't one of them I was talking about because you didn't say a whole lot that had much meaning in all of those posts you made.

          However, THIS is nonsensical: "We are selling ourselves and once this is accomplished it won't matter what it is your offering." Do you think those are words of wisdom or something? Oh, I know the point you're TRYING to make but it DOES matter what you're offering. It matters a whole lot.

          You see, I'm not here to push WSO's as is your intention.

          It's amusing to watch how some of you play the game of building up your post count with meaningless drivel and idle chit-chat that doesn't amount to a hill of beans, all in an attempt to draw attention to your very own, brand new, super exciting WSO.

          Carry on there, "guru"...
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        • Profile picture of the author Shane Hale
          Originally Posted by sb View Post

          WOW, yourself. I just read every post you made here and they're nothing more than filler along with cute little ":p" things and a couple of points that have been regurgitated over and over again for decades.

          I'm sorry if I hit your sensitive button but you weren't one of them I was talking about because you didn't say a whole lot that had much meaning in all of those posts you made.

          However, THIS is nonsensical: "We are selling ourselves and once this is accomplished it won't matter what it is your offering." Do you think those are words of wisdom or something? Oh, I know the point you're TRYING to make but it DOES matter what you're offering. It matters a whole lot.

          You see, I'm not here to push WSO's as is your intention.

          It's amusing to watch how some of you play the game of building up your post count with meaningless drivel and idle chit-chat that doesn't amount to a hill of beans, all in an attempt to draw attention to your very own, brand new, super exciting WSO.

          Carry on there, "guru"...
          What is wrong with people wanting to promote their own WSO?

          Hell, if you have a signature use it for promotion and other things

          (Just don't abuse it.)

          What is useless chit chat to some elitist people, may not be for others.

          (Isn't that what a forum is for?)

          [An Internet forum, or message board, is an online discussion site where people can hold conversations in the form of posted messages.]

          Kind of ironical, spending time making a post griping about useless posts...
          Just saying...
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  • Profile picture of the author DaveMassingham
    Frank Kern is not just an IMer. He is a marketer! He knows how to trigger peoples subconscious into making purchases. I also believe that Frank is targeting the offline community because of the boom of mobile marketing and the effect that offline video marketing is experiencing. Frank knows how to convert!
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  • Profile picture of the author Apply Marketing
    Kern goin offline is a mistake?

    Did you guys forget about Joe Polish and Carpet Cleaners?
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    • Profile picture of the author wbinst2
      All Joe Polish did was teach carpet cleaners to market.

      He sold products in their niche, coached them etc. He started as a carpet cleaner who became a Dan Kennedy acolyte.

      Originally Posted by Apply Marketing View Post

      Kern goin offline is a mistake?

      Did you guys forget about Joe Polish and Carpet Cleaners?
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      • Profile picture of the author LouCyphre
        Hey guys,

        I came across this blog post the other day Locella - Frank Kern, Jordan Belfort - What Happened Here? | Brad Slavin and I had to comment here to hopefully help some of those starting or deciding to start out in what we call offline marketing.

        1- You shouldn't be afraid of big names entering an enormous market. Their entry lays credence to what you want to do, if it wasn't a good $ thing why would these guys making millions waste any time in it?

        2- Just because a big name enters a market doesn't mean they will dominate and take over as shown. Did Frank fail at Locella or was it just that he picked the wrong model of offline marketing or the wrong approach to his model of offline marketing? There are so many different facets of offline marketing from SEO services, client reactivation, website, Local on(off)line marketing, PPC management, Video, Mobile, full business coaching, etc.

        Businesses come and go all the time. We each have our own criteria of client selection, so one marketer's throwaway (not enough monthly $) might be another marketer's client entry point to freedom. That combined with the different facets, makes me believe, and as others have also stated, an opportunity like offline marketing will unlikely ever be fully saturated. Sure sometimes you might bump into a competitor, but then so what, you just expand your circle or criteria a little bit or offering expansion and no more bumping heads.

        3- Test, test, test, regardless of which guru's advice you are following. What can work for 99 marketers just might have the opposite effect for you, you never know unless you test and don't put forth into action blindly. The basic marketing and sales principles the gurus teach are always solid and time proven, but the specific actions of those principles are what I am referring to.

        4- Everything is an education and you should learn from. Try to look for mistakes and successes from any other marketer's ventures and how you can apply those items to your own marketing. For example if we stay with Locella, (this is what seems to be a good guess at what was provided) if PPC management was the main item after a website, which was then outsourced to another company with markup as profit, what could the problems have been?

        Not charging enough? The clients being selected wouldn't find it valuable enough in relation to their customer's value? The pool of prospective clients that would find it valuable wasn't large enough to make it enticing?

        Maybe they could have done the stuff internally, or offered other service on top of that which could have increased their profit margin? But the biggest item I think we need to breakdown here is relativity, meaning maybe they were seeing a potential of 20K a month profit, which for them is not appealing at all, one email will give them more than that, but for a lot of us that is a nice paycheck.

        5- Other than using it as a learning experience, don't get too absorbed into what someone else is doing in your market, don't let it get you discouraged when you see more people move into it. You cannot control what someone else does; you can only control what you yourself can do. Keep your focus, adapt, and most importantly keep on providing value to your clients.

        If you are showing value to your clients, it doesn't matter who comes into your market, your client has no reason to even entertain any other offers. I have seen it over the years in my computer consulting business. From all the Rescuecom, geek squad, vendor expansion (like Dell, HP), and countless competition coming into the market, I have yet to lose one client, in over 10 years. I even tried unsuccessfully to let two of my clients go a few years ago. Actually I get more service from these guys entering the markets. Why? I provide my clients value in what I do, treat them with respect, am not afraid to present something with a lower or no profit margin for me if it is better for the client, work on their systems as if they were my own, and everything I tell them is with complete conviction and honesty. Meanwhile these other guys only care about the bottom line, get in get out, get paid, and sacrificing tomorrow's paycheck for money today.


        Anyway, hope the above helps some of us out there. To me business growth marketing is and will be an opportunity for many to make money, and money that is honest. It is money that is being paid helping others make more money which helps the cycle of economics. Helping a business grow can possibly give them the ability to hire an individual, that's one less person on unemployment and one less person worrying about how to feed their family. You grow to the point where you need help and decide to hire some individuals yourself, again helping those who need work.

        Can you really feel bad about taking 1K a month from a client if you are showing him how to make 10x that more, and even if he hires someone for his growing business he is still ahead from where he was before you had helped him.

        OK, have to stop as the economics gets off topic from the main post.

        - Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author Instructor
    The real asset that he has that many here don't is piles of cash. Now you can use your imagination from there as to what impact that has on building a high powered offline consulting business.
    Couple that with his proven business acumen and ca-ching!
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  • Profile picture of the author sdentrepreneur
    I heard that the Kern Offline thing fell apart, he wasn't happy with his partner. I am in San Diego, where he lives, word of mouth travels fast :-)
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    • Profile picture of the author dsiomtw
      Originally Posted by sdentrepreneur View Post

      I heard that the Kern Offline thing fell apart, he wasn't happy with his partner. I am in San Diego, where he lives, word of mouth travels fast :-)
      Well Jordan Belfort IS one of the biggest slimeball crooks EVER so no surprise there. I WAS shocked to hear that Frank was partnering with him ... but not shocked when Locella shut down before it even got started.
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  • Profile picture of the author RBozemanAM
    You most definitely have to make moves in internet marketing before it is too lat. However, that doesn't mean that there will not always be places to enter new markets. The strong and original will survive
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  • Profile picture of the author eshber
    Guys, do u know that Franks offline business closed down?
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    You'd have to be a hell of alot bigger than Kern to tap out the offlline market lol.
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  • Profile picture of the author jackanderson1
    This is really very important to remember. It is true, the more people realize the potential in this market the more people and big names or big businesses will jump in. That's why those of us who can, need to act now and get all we can out of this while the window is open.
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