BIG HUGE question.

13 years ago

I think I'd try to partner up with her, if you can. You have skills that she obviously doesn't have but she has the client list you want - could be a great deal for both of you.

Tina

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Amber Jalink

13 years ago

They may have paid for website design packages but not paid for SEO (although to me they should be done at the same time when it comes to design)...

You could potentially contact HER and offer to JV together.

Or, if she's not willing - then go to her clients and offer it directly as you were thinking.

Just my thoughts. The fact is, you ARE in business for yourself, and while you don't want to take away from her sales - she's getting them from the design aspect, but obviously not from the other. There's nothing wrong with showing people what can be fixed by you.

If she starts to get complaints or realize that she's messed up, maybe then she will work with you

Amber

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Rus Sells

13 years ago

Lisa,

You might not like my opinion...

First contact her as a possible new client. Find out what she "really" knows about SEO if anything. Get as much info from her as possible about pricing, etc. etc.

Just because her sites are not seo'd does not mean she doesn't know how to do it. Her clients might have refused based on her pricing, you don't know so find out.

If she's just clueless which I imagine she is you have the ace.

Go to her clients and take them.

Business is war and there is no mercy for ones who are clueless.

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Adam Richardson

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Rus Sells

Lisa,

You might not like my opinion...

First contact her as a possible new client. Find out what she "really" knows about SEO if anything. Get as much info from her as possible about pricing, etc. etc.

Just because her sites are not seo'd does not mean she doesn't know how to do it. Her clients might have refused based on her pricing, you don't know so find out.

If she's just clueless which I imagine she is you have the ace.

Go to her clients and take them.

Business is war and there is no mercy for ones who are clueless.

Rus Sells is an animal! It's time for battle! Awesome thread.

Lisa, what is your approach when targeting the biz's with yellowbook ads? (Also, do have any idea what they are paying for the yellowbook? monthly? yearly?)
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Lisa Gergets

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Adam Richardson

Lisa, what is your approach when targeting the biz's with yellowbook ads? (Also, do have any idea what they are paying for the yellowbook? monthly? yearly?)
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I'm sending them a letter basically asking them to go to a computer, and look up a couple of keyword terms they SHOULD be ranking for...and then asking them if they see their site on the first page. Second page? Third page?

You get the idea. Don't know if this is the right approach, but it's all a learning experience at this point.

I don't know what they pay, but I'm going to find out.

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PaulintheSticks

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Lisa Gergets

Okay...I've been online all morning researching businesses that need my services. Found a bunch, letters are going out tomorrow morning. Now, here's my conundrum:

I've found a website developer in the area who creates visually stunning sites that work really well...and she also claims in her website copy that she does SEO.

The problem is that none of her sites are ranking for the keywords that would actually bring customers in the door to these businesses.

What do I do? Do I target some of her current design clients, and let them know that they're not actually showing up for the keywords that they should be? Will they then go back to her and say "hey why aren't I ranking for these terms?"

Looking at the code for her sites, they're not even effectively SEO'd for on-site...let alone off-site.

She has dozens of these sites she's created, and the links are all right there on her site...so I'm seeing the potential for a LOT of money to be made, but I don't want to do it at the expense of her business. That's not how I roll. But there has to be a middle ground...a way to make this work.

What do you guys think? You're the experts here and I really value your opinions...

I have to admit that is one BIG HUGE question

My $.02, I would talk to her first and let her know your idea before contacting her clients. If she's not "down with it" (hate that phrase), you might just go ahead any way and at least you tried. Don't want to burn bridges if you don't need to though.

PS I hate when people post the same thing as the three previous posters and I just realized that's pretty much what I did. Sorry!

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redlegrich

13 years ago

I like Rus and Pauls approach. Ask her first what's up and if she is in fact clueless have at it! I will tell you this, I suspect about 80% or more of the web designers out there do not know doodly about SEO. Their own sites are invisible and so are their customer's sites.

Also, check out the designer's site. I always do a Websitegrader check. Now, that's not the definitive answer but I've seen web designers with scores in the 20's. That is poor no matter how you slice it ;-) If the designer has a high score and their clients don't then the clients might be cheap!

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Lisa Gergets

13 years ago

Originally Posted by redlegrich

Also, check out the designer's site. I always do a Websitegrader check. Now, that's not the definitive answer but I've seen web designers with scores in the 20's. That is poor no matter how you slice it ;-) If the designer has a high score and their clients don't then the clients might be cheap!

Just took your advice - her site got 45/100 - I would imagine she's clueless as none of her images have alt text, etc.

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Rus Sells 13 years ago

Then you know what to do, and she's definitely not partner material either.

Originally Posted by Lisa Gergets

Just took your advice - her site got 45/100 - I would imagine she's clueless as none of her images have alt text, etc.
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- PaulintheSticks 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Rus Sells
  
  Then you know what to do, and she's definitely not partner material either.
  
  I was under the impression that you were going to have her build websites for you/your clients.
  
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Rus Sells

13 years ago

I would never give my competition a heads up that I was going to take there clients away.

You think Coca Cola called up Pepsi and said, hey your drink sucks we plan on taking your clients if you don't partner with us. Yeah right! lol

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PaulintheSticks 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Rus Sells

I would never give my competition a heads up that I was going to take there clients away.

Sure, unless you want to partner with them.
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- Rus Sells 13 years ago
  
  Personally, If I felt that I had to pull along or bring some one up to my level as a business partner then they don't qualify as a business partner.
  
  Building sites is a skill set but its not like there is scarcity of site designers.
  
  Originally Posted by PaulintheSticks
  
  Sure, unless you want to partner with them.
  
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Lisa Gergets

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Rus Sells

I would never give my competition a heads up that I was going to take there clients away.

You think Coca Cola called up Pepsi and said, hey your drink sucks we plan on taking your clients if you don't partner with us. Yeah right! lol

See, but I can't create the stunning sites like she can...that's where the real problem lies...

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Rus Sells 13 years ago

That problem is only a perception in your own mind.

Would you mind PM'n me her site so I can look at it?

Curious about something.

Originally Posted by Lisa Gergets

See, but I can't create the stunning sites like she can...that's where the real problem lies...
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- Vanessa Reece 13 years ago
  
  Hey Lisa,
  
  People get caught up in pretty sites all the time but you've just proved fantastically how a pretty site doesn't always get the job did as they say.
  
  I personally would source out this task if you're not comfortable with it and then move forward with your empire.
  
  Good Luck!
  
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MWGrubb58

13 years ago

Lisa,

A lot of good points here.

However, I have seen a lot of great looking sites that led nowhere. One business I went to had one of the most gorgeous sites I ever saw as well as top notch print materials, high quality goods, etc. BUT THEY WERE OUT OF BUSINESS IN THREE MONTHS.

Would good SEO, a free report, an autoresponder, etc., saved them? I don't know.

But when talking with the owner, she said she knew everything there was to know about selling her stuff and had EVERYTHING under control. She was THE expert.

The point I'm making is that it doesn't matter if they site looks good, the business may not know what's going on.

Go after them!

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Hugh Thyer 13 years ago

Rus makes a great point. Contact her as a potential client first to get a feel for her.

Then ring her up and tell her what you can do for her, and what she can do for her. Tell her you're able to offer her clients something of value that she currently isn't offering. It makes her business stronger.

The next step is critical.

-> Take her out for coffee. <-

Hugh
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Lisa Gergets

13 years ago

Well, in looking at her sites, and looking at her own business website, I'm not sure it's a good match for business partners.

I am presently constructing a letter to go out to each of the websites she has in her portfolio, though. LOL

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John Durham

13 years ago

Dont forget to call them after you email and ask "Did you get my email"?

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Lisa Gergets 13 years ago

Originally Posted by John Durham

Dont forget to call them after you email and ask "Did you get my email"?

I'm actually sending out print letters in 9x11 manilla envelopes marked "confidential". And I mention at the end of the letter that I'll be calling to follow up, or that they can call me.
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betsyanne

13 years ago

I learned a lot from this posting. Thanks for the question, AND the answers. There are many ways to making money, I think, and it's worth it to really think before acting sometimes. You don't want to be ruthless, but at the same time it really IS OK to tell people what you do, and do well.

I will be going to the Websitegrader site to check on my sites. I am a beginning SEO and web design person, so I am always looking to improve.

Good luck on your business, Lisa! :-)

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Lisa Gergets

13 years ago

Originally Posted by betsyanne

I learned a lot from this posting. Thanks for the question, AND the answers. There are many ways to making money, I think, and it's worth it to really think before acting sometimes. You don't want to be ruthless, but at the same time it really IS OK to tell people what you do, and do well.

I will be going to the Websitegrader site to check on my sites. I am a beginning SEO and web design person, so I am always looking to improve.

Good luck on your business, Lisa! :-)

Thanks Betsyanne! I've got ten letters going out each day for the next...well, however long it takes!

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Lisa Gergets

13 years ago

ZOMG I'm totally freaking out!

I just found another company...they do great websites but ZERO promotion on them...AND, they have a HUGE portfolio! WOOT WOOT!!!!

Hey, I'm gonna need more envelopes.

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RichardHK

13 years ago

There's another message in this forum somewhere suggesting the same strategy to find clients: Find local web designers, check their portfolio, and nine times out of ten, you will find exactly what you did. Great designers. Clueless on SEO/etc.

Do what Rus and others say. Go to her for web design. Go to her clients for SEO. Easy.

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MWGrubb58

13 years ago

RichardHK,

You said EVERYTHING with just a few words!

Cheers,

Millard

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Lisa Gergets

13 years ago

Like I said guys, at least ten letter going out every day! Right now we're targeting these portolios, and also crappy YellowBook websites that aren't ranking for anything.

(Off topic - I am AMAZED at what people are paying for with YellowBook...and NOT getting. Kinda p!sses me off because these businesses are completely getting taken advantage of.)

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PaulintheSticks

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Lisa Gergets

YellowBook...and NOT getting. Kinda p!sses me off because these businesses are completely getting taken advantage of.)

How can you blame YellowBook? The only thing they promise is the ad. If businesses are not smart enough to track, its their own fault. They are taking advantage of themselves.

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Lisa Gergets

13 years ago

Originally Posted by PaulintheSticks

How can you blame YellowBook? The only thing they promise is the ad. If businesses are not smart enough to track, its their own fault. They are taking advantage of themselves.

True...though I wonder if their sales pitch includes something like "once you have a website, you'll get a lot more business!"

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Trivum

13 years ago

In my opinion, you may be over-thinking all this. Just because this woman is in the same area as you doesn't make her any different than anyone else. There is somebody behind EVERY website you find online. I'm not sure how she qualifies as being special. Everyone is "local" in their own locale.

Also, I wouldn't count on her clients being any more receptive than anyone else's clients. In fact, if she makes really nice sites, there's a chance they cost a fair amount. When these businesses put good money into a website that's supposed bring them traffic, and then it doesn't, that only makes them LESS likely to be open to others promising essentially the same thing.

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Riz

13 years ago

Here's another take on when you find web designers that have a large portfolio yet no promotion.

This works best with Web Designers that do not advertise SEO or any other website promotional strategies.

There are loads of them. It can also work with the ones that do offer SEO on their site but from your research obviously don't, just like in your case here Lisa.

(Side Note to Lisa: Don't worry about not being able to be as good a designer. A direct response site is a thousand times better than a well designed site. You can have both, a well designed site and a direct response site at the same time. There is no shortage of outsourcers if you feel you lack the neccessary design skills)

Anyway back to what i was discussing.........I have done this on a few occassions.

JV with the web designer. Remember they already have a relationship with their clients and more than likely their clients are happy with their designs. They are happy with their sites as they don't know they are not performing for them and just like the ego of a well designed web presence.

The JV with the web designer (who knows nothing about SEO or other IM techniques) is to offer a seminar to their current clients.

From there you decide how to split either the upfront fee (if you decide to have one) and/or the backend sales.

Seminars are a very easy way to secure clients and this is a very easy way to get the bums on seats.

Riz

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contentment1st

13 years ago

I would operate my business as though this person does not exist. I would approach any potential lead, including businesses who are using her services all in the same manner. Market your business consistently and don't worry about the competition. I don't think I've ever even looked to see who's doing something similar to me in my area. It's irrelevant. I'm going to go about my business without a second thought to what others are doing and do so with the confidence that what I have to offer is useful and effective for any business owner. Would recommend that you do the same. Best of luck to you. Greg

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BIG HUGE question.

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