Any experience with hiring offline salesmen?

42 replies
I know one of my weaknesses is selling, that's why I've given a lot of thought to hiring offline salesmen.
I'm thinking of hiring them as independent contractors, provide the 1099 at the end of the year, etc. Strictly commission based. They can earn whatever they work.

Anyone have any experience with this, suggestions, etc.?
#experience #hiring #offline #salesmen
  • Profile picture of the author sunbros
    Banned
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    • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
      # 1: Instead of trying to hire salespeople on commission it often works better if you find sales people or businesses already selling products and services to the businesses you want to target.

      Examples might be business brokers, various kinds of sales people who regularly service businesses etc etc.


      # 2: Be realistic.

      It's going to be very difficult to find or train a large group of sales people on the ins and outs of internet marketing enough that they can explain it to a client.

      More important the best sales people and business people in contact with business owners from day to day simply don't fit the model of people willing to learn complicated internet marketing strategies.

      The solution is to use that to your advantage.

      To get highly qualified prospects all you need to do is to have these people recommend you.

      If you have a lead generating report, audio, video or gift consultation (or even a paid consultation) then these people can give that to the business owners they come in contact with.

      Then you speak to the qualified prospect yourself...already arriving as an established expert.

      When your "salespeople" get asked questions about you they can just say they really don't understand all that technical internet stuff...that's why they highly recommend you.


      Kindest regards,
      Andrew Cavanagh
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    I always like to hire my own so I can drive my own production, as opposed to outsourcing. That way you can hold them accountable for their numbers and produce consistent numbers that you can make projections on. Always as independent contractors wether you pay them hourly or not.

    Im not to fond of sales strategies that you cant control or predict the results consistently. I like to be able to control my outcomes by enforcing quotas and being able to motivate my own team.

    Having your own team that you manage is what works best IMHO.

    Just put an ad in the paper on on salesgravy.com or craigslist... and start interviewing is my best advice.

    If you hire people you cant manage, or if you take on a strategy that is dependent on others... not your own team, you can never produce predictable results that you can count on like clockwork, which means you cant make growth projections and are left at the whims of whatever.

    "Grow your own"!!!
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    • Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      I always like to hire my own so I can drive my own production, as opposed to outsourcing. That way you can hold them accountable for their numbers and produce consistent numbers that you can make projections on. Always as independent contractors wether you pay them hourly or not.

      Im not to fond of sales strategies that you cant control or predict the results consistently. I like to be able to control my outcomes by enforcing quotas and being able to motivate my own team.

      Having your own team that you manage is what works best IMHO.

      Just put an ad in the paper on on salesgravy.com or craigslist... and start interviewing is my best advice.

      If you hire people you cant manage, or if you take on a strategy that is dependent on others... not your own team, you can never produce predictable results that you can count on like clockwork, which means you cant make growth projections and are left at the whims of whatever.

      "Grow your own"!!!
      Questions for you :

      This team you have are the 1099's/ independent contractors?
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      Millions Forever LLC

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  • Profile picture of the author vndnbrgj
    I have only hired sales reps locally.
    I have yet to hire reps nationally. That is mu next endevour.
    I would lile one of my sales reps to the point that they can manage a group, so I don't have to.
    What I did was just start them all out with one product. Once they have proven themselves, then and only then, do I allow them to offer additional services. I pay purely comissiom, as I like to pay for performance. I also only hired reps with existing business contacts, like stated above.
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  • Profile picture of the author TimD
    I've tried several times to hire sales people. I've found it very challenging. Most of the good sales people I've found are very familiar with companies who want to pay them commission to sell websites, seo and such.

    On the other hand, I"ve found appointment setters plentiful. It's easy to find lots of experienced people who will work for 10-12 an hour setting appointments. So you can try that route and at least get lots of appointments.

    I've been trying lately to hire appointment setters on salary (10-12 an hour) and then hire sales people to close the warm leads.

    But, ultimately, I'm with Andrew. Finding businesses to send your offers to their customer lists is probably more efficient.
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    • Profile picture of the author jasonthewebmaster
      Banned
      yep, and training them is a pain. anyone working on 1099 is also many times un-reliable. attrition rates in direct commission-only sales is like 90%

      basically that means you will spend most of your time recruiting and training

      now with appt setters that is different, you can pay them min. wage with small $1-$2 bonus per appt they set that actually sells or like $.25 cents per appt that doesn't cancel
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by jasonthewebmaster View Post

        yep, and training them is a pain. anyone working on 1099 is also many times un-reliable. attrition rates in direct commission-only sales is like 90%

        basically that means you will spend most of your time recruiting and training

        now with appt setters that is different, you can pay them min. wage with small $1-$2 bonus per appt they set that actually sells or like $.25 cents per appt that doesn't cancel
        Totally agree. Appointment setters are easy, but its hard to train up a good sales force from scratch.

        Thats what people dont get... hiring a salesman is about as hard as selling yourself.

        If you want to succeed at anything you have to work for it....or 6 months from now still be looking for an easy way out while people who are willing to work are doing well and making money.

        It takes work to hire and train a sales force... thats why not everyone has one.

        But hey, if it comforts people to day dream, then let them be comforted. great sales teams dont happen by themselves and they are valuable for a reason, because its rare to find a person with the dedication to develop one.

        "Web Specialists"? Well honestly, I can pay someone 50 bucks to put up and optimized google listing. Believe it.

        This isnt meant for Sardent though, I know he's not coming from the lazy place... just got passionate on a tangent there.

        I would try salesgravy.com Sardent!

        Here's my point. Dont jump to another idea just because something is hard... you will never succeed that way... be willing to develop.

        Within 4-6 moths you can develop a few salespeople that produce 50k per month like clockwork.

        But it may take you the first whole two months to get them even get them to produce the first 5k.. You have to get some momentum.

        Getting on the phone yourself, or out shaking hands though with your own motivation you might just make it the first WEEK! I have seen alot of people do it. From right here in this forum.

        Then you will have a workable system to train others by.

        It can work not doing it yourself at all, but if you expect a salesman to figure out how to do it for you, you might go through quite a few before it starts getting traction.

        It will work, but you will too, dont doubt it.

        Either way, you have to be willing to do the hard stuff that failures refuse to do. One of those things is "sticking with the plan", even when its not working like you want... keep tweaking.

        Wow it hurts to say this stuff... I wish I could be mellower and not say it... but as a pro sales trainer, and as a person who wants to see others do well...I know the truth, and this is it.

        Sure wont help me sell any reports lol, but thats not what this is about! This is about selling YOU into becoming your own success story.

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        • Profile picture of the author ADukes81
          Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

          Totally agree. Appointment setters are easy, but its hard to train up a good sales force from scratch.

          Thats what people dont get... hiring a salesman is about as hard as selling yourself.

          If you want to succeed at anything you have to work for it....or 6 months from now still be looking for an easy way out while people who are willing to work are doing well and making money.

          It takes work to hire and train a sales force... thats why not everyone has one.

          But hey, if it comforts people to day dream, then let them be comforted. great sales teams dont happen by themselves and they are valuable for a reason, because its rare to find a person with the dedication to develop one.

          "Web Specialists"? Well honestly, I can pay someone 50 bucks to put up and optimized google listing. Believe it.

          This isnt meant for Sardent though, I know he's not coming from the lazy place... just got passionate on a tangent there.

          I would try salesgravy.com Sardent!

          Here's my point. Dont jump to another idea just because something is hard... you will never succeed that way... be willing to develop.

          Within6 moths you can develop a few salespeople that produce 50k per month like clockwork.

          But it may take you the first whole two months to get them even get them to produce the first 5k., its worht it though. You have to get some momentum.

          Getting on the phone yourself, or out shaking hands though with your own motivation you might just make it the first WEEK! Then you will have a workable syustem to train others by.

          It can work not doing it yourself at all, but if you expect a salesman to figure out how to do it for you, you might go through quiote a few before it starts getting traction.It will work, but you will too, dont doubt it.

          Either way, you have to be willing to do the hard stuff that failures refuse to do.

          Amen!

          I spent the whole month of November looking for a sales team (Craigslist, Odesk, Elance, friends & family, etc.) I realized last week I was wasting my time. I was doing this because I was afraid of making calls, until last week. I finally got on the phones and I have a few good leads to follow up with this week. All weekend I thought, "I can't wait till Monday to get back on the phones". If you would have told me I would have said that a week ago I would have asked for your dealers' number.

          The first of the month is here; along with the mortgage, car payment, insurance and o yeah, Christmas is 20 days away. I HAD to take action, and I did!

          This is going to be a BIG week! I'll keep everyone posted.
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          • Originally Posted by ADukes81 View Post

            Amen!

            I spent the whole month of November looking for a sales team (Craigslist, Odesk, Elance, friends & family, etc.) I realized last week I was wasting my time. I was doing this because I was afraid of making calls, until last week. I finally got on the phones and I have a few good leads to follow up with this week. All weekend I thought, "I can't wait till Monday to get back on the phones". If you would have told me I would have said that a week ago I would have asked for your dealers' number.

            The first of the month is here; along with the mortgage, car payment, insurance and o yeah, Christmas is 20 days away. I HAD to take action, and I did!

            This is going to be a BIG week! I'll keep everyone posted.


            Why did you spend the whole month of November looking for reps online? What was the problem you were running into finding them?
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            Richard Saperstein
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    While I think Andrew is no doubt brilliant and an admirable teacher... I will say this,

    While you are trying to be efficient and waiting for results through some grand passive scheme...a cold caller will have already closed 5 deals.

    I would say if you go that route with Andrews idea which Im sure is workable to some degree...the business you approach needs to be a business that caters to other businesses, and not residents.

    Og mandino says "I will call on ten prospect while the failure makes grand plans to call on his first".

    Now if your prospects are businesses who are gonna pass word of your services onto other businesses...then call on 100 of them and have 20 businesses doing it for you...then it would work no doubt. But you still have to approach it like a salesman either way. You are just selling a different idea now. its not gonna be set and forget, and you will go through 10 different business owners before you find one that really produces significant referrals for you.

    When you market passively you have to deal with BIG numbers.

    Example; 5,000 impressions to get 100 clicks to get 10 sales... is how it works with IM...or thereabouts...

    To find ONE business who will produce significant referrals for you, even though ten might commit, ...you will have to cold call as many businesses as you would customers in the first place... and spend 2 hours per day cold calling businesses to pass on your services and set up those deals... half of them will commit and not follow through, the other half will follow through then fall off if it doesnt make them money the first time around...

    Not worth it to me... just quit trying to get around it and sell someone a website.

    You dont have to believe what Im saying, but a person who does is gonna make 5 sales to your one.

    Im serious. but try it anyway you like.

    We have about 20 people on my forum which is only about 3 months old who are consistently making 1k per per week and some even per DAY... most of them started with all their bills due and no money, which is why they came there...

    They are succeeding instead of theorizing, because they quit trying to take the passive route and just took the bull by the balls while alll their friends were still pondering hypothetical possibilities and will be for the next 6 months.

    Working hard as all get out and having cash in your pocket is better than trying different ideas every week and being broke every week, or making a sale once every two months.

    Sorry bro's Im just spitting the unpopular truth. Do something proven. Now other ideas might be proven too...Im sure they work on some level, and a "combination" of them might work even on a grander level...

    But if you want to guarantee your results do what works for SURE, and go out and SELL!!! Wether its door to door as Andrew teaches , which is DEFINITELY effective, or telemarketing which is also effective.

    This is the reason why webdesigners work jobs alot of times instead of becoming true entreprenuers. Guess who they work for?

    People who SELL!

    I can hire a programmer or designer by the hour all day long, they need work more than I need them to work for me... I dont have to look far to hire another one...but a SALESMAN....?

    They can be an entrepreneur for themselves just fine. I need them more than they need me.

    Just the facts.

    I use to have webdesigners threaten to leave because they were "specialized talent" or whatever... and I would just say "walk then", because there are more of them out of work than ones who make even $300 per month.

    Its true.

    But if my top "salesman" tried to push me for a raise...then Im in a position! They are simply more valuable.

    The point Im making is this.... if you think "hardcore" and not try to find ways around selling... you will make more money.

    Either sell or manage some salesman. This isnt meant to be a cocky post...just TRUE.

    Take it or leave it. Your bank account not mine. Im just tryin to help.
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  • Profile picture of the author Amir Luis
    There is a lot of information to digest in the above posts... I want to respond soooo bad....

    but I think it has all been covered.

    It is really not that hard to just do it... I have spent more time in my life trying to do things the easy way. I finally figured out. If I would have just done it along time ago.... I would have been done before now.

    I see Dukes getting that same experience.

    I love it....
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by Amir Luis View Post

      There is a lot of information to digest in the above posts... I want to respond soooo bad....

      but I think it has all been covered.

      It is really not that hard to just do it... I have spent more time in my life trying to do things the easy way. I finally figured out. If I would have just done it along time ago.... I would have been done before now.

      I see Dukes getting that same experience.

      I love it....
      You know and I know that Adam is gonna have a sale this coming week. Because techniques sometimes fail but principles dont fail.

      Originally Posted by panket View Post

      How long is the work time?
      Til you have a check in your hand.
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  • Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

    You know and I know that Adam is gonna have a sale this coming week. Because techniques sometimes fail but principles dont fail.



    Til you have a check in your hand.
    Originally Posted by Amir Luis View Post

    There is a lot of information to digest in the above posts... I want to respond soooo bad....

    but I think it has all been covered.

    It is really not that hard to just do it... I have spent more time in my life trying to do things the easy way. I finally figured out. If I would have just done it along time ago.... I would have been done before now.

    I see Dukes getting that same experience.

    I love it....
    Originally Posted by ADukes81 View Post

    Amen!

    I spent the whole month of November looking for a sales team (Craigslist, Odesk, Elance, friends & family, etc.) I realized last week I was wasting my time. I was doing this because I was afraid of making calls, until last week. I finally got on the phones and I have a few good leads to follow up with this week. All weekend I thought, "I can't wait till Monday to get back on the phones". If you would have told me I would have said that a week ago I would have asked for your dealers' number.

    The first of the month is here; along with the mortgage, car payment, insurance and o yeah, Christmas is 20 days away. I HAD to take action, and I did!

    This is going to be a BIG week! I'll keep everyone posted.
    Originally Posted by Sardent View Post

    I know one of my weaknesses is selling, that's why I've given a lot of thought to hiring offline salesmen.
    I'm thinking of hiring them as independent contractors, provide the 1099 at the end of the year, etc. Strictly commission based. They can earn whatever they work.

    Anyone have any experience with this, suggestions, etc.?


    I don't even know where to begin. I have read this thread and disagree with some many things in it. I also agree with some things as well.

    I have been in sales for 17 years. Take my advice for what it is..an opinion.

    Im going to ask you some questions Sardent to help you find the proper sales reps.

    1. What are you selling? I do not want a 5 page essay on it. I need to know what it is within 3 seconds then you have 5 seconds to tell me why I should listen to you any further.

    2. As a salesmen I love working for commission. WHat that says to me is "Im in charge". However, what is the pay structure? What do I get for the long term being with you and selling your products? What am I going to get if I make you a million dollars in one year?

    3. If sales is your weak point then I suggest you pick up " The Sales Bible" by Gitomer. This is a tremendous book that will walk you through everything step by step in the sales world. Once again it is a starting point in the right direction. You can't expect to hire sales reps and be taken seriously when you yourself have not been in their shoes.



    Plenty more coming...im starting with this post and working down.
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    Richard Saperstein
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    • Finding sales reps:
      Craigslist and all those other sites are garbage for finding legitimate sales reps.I'm not talking phone reps ( two different worlds).
      The best place to find commission sales reps is at networkign meetings. places like toastmasters, Chamber events, social functions, etc.

      Why? Simple...these are the guys who work on commission most likely. The ones you want and the ones that arent afraid to stand in front of large groups and speak. most likely you will not find anyone online for straight commission. If you do they will be the bottom of the barrel and have no experience what so ever. This is why you would need to spend countless hours training them.

      If you want Phone Sales Reps they are a dime a dozen online. Finding a good phone rep is tough as well. You need someone who can take the constant rejection on the phone. Also, you need someone who can develop a solid phone script and objection responses since you are not familiar with those areas.

      Now if you plan on having phone reps you need to formulate a plan of action. If they do steps a then what is step B? What's step C?

      As you see it's goign to take time to build all of that.
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      • Sales reluctance:


        This is an unnecessary fear a lot of people have built up in their head. Now before anyone flames me and says I don't understand...I do.

        I was in the same spot. I would look at the phone as it was "DEATH". I had these crazy ideas of people and that they were going to go nuts on me because I felt I interrupted their day.

        How did I get over it?

        Pretty simple..Here are some steps:

        1. They are saying "no" to your product not "You".
        2. Understand your product in and out. Then right down 10 ways it is going to benefit that customer.

        3. When you call upon someone understand that you are offering them a service to improve their business and lives. They need you and have been waiting for you , just make them realize it

        4. Bottom line...whats in it for the customer.

        5. If you feel that you're interrupting their day change your thinking. You are helping them by making that call. Once again they should be thanking you because you are going to show them how you can make them XXX,XXX per a year in additional revenue.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Have to disagree millions llc... I am a pro salesperson, even trainer... but if I needed a job the first place I would look was career builder. It doesnt make sense that you couldnt find good reps online... the numbers alone would indicate that it would be the place where you could find the MOST.

    A sales person knows the law of numbers... Im surprised you would say this.
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    • Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      Have to disagree millions llc... I am a pro salesperson, even trainer... but if I needed a job the first place I would look was career builder. It doesnt make sense that you couldnt find good reps online... the numbers alone would indicate that it would be the place where you could find the MOST.

      A sales person knows the law of numbers... Im surprised you would say this.
      The rule of numbers is generally applied to "SALES" not finding good sales reps.

      ( i'm not saying it doesnt apply here )


      There are better places to find them then online. There is a huge difference between career builder and craigslist. Let's be real.
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  • Rule of numbers:


    If your selling online or face to face there is a formula you must have. It helps you determine your sales ratio. Let me give you an example:



    example:


    Calls Made: 100
    Decision Makers talked to : 10
    Appointments made: 5
    Sales made : 1


    So now you can see a pattern starting to form. You can start to see what areas your weak in regarding the sales process. This is a standard for online and face to face sales. If you dont understand your numbers you dont understand where your failing and where your money is going.


    So what does that formula above tell me. it tells me we have a lot of work to do heres why:

    100 Calls were made ( this is a good thing and bad ) . If hes calling that many leads he better have a minimum of 10 appointments.


    10 decision makers ( this is not a good sign. This shows me he is having trouble going from the opening to getting the person with the money on the phone - RED FLAG )


    5 Appointments ( while this may seem good its not. Why did he have 90 other people hang up on him? However 5 appointments is better then none- RED FLAG )

    1 Sales - ( yes a sale is a sale however you should have a lot more of these- most likely you are lacing on the closing process, finding the customers true needs and desires. This needs to be worked on as well.)


    As you can see you can build a whole story just by keeping track of the numbers.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    okay... you win. The law of large numbers only applies to sales... not finding sales people.
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    • Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      okay... you win. The law of large numbers only applies to sales... not finding sales people.


      See this is how I can tell you don't pay attention to your prospects. You obviously didn't read what I just stated above.


      I said "generally". Sure the law of numbers applies to everything in life. I use it in the sales world to define a specific outcome for sales, setting appointments, etc. Not finding the right sales person.


      Please re-read my statement before you make comments like that above. I did not state that the law of numbers doesnt apply to finding sales reps.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Independent contractors. However thats for my own convenience, not because its better necessarily. Always. I have actually hired and fired 1000 sales people in my time and every ounce of it is verifiable... believe me you dont want to open this up. and YES I have telemarketers that work for me NOW. In fact I have 20 people on this very forum who I have trained to make their first sales, some of them making up to $1000 per day now.

    Like I said, testing my metal as far as sales experience or knowledge will only have you wishing you could change your username in the morning. You dont want to do it.

    You win the law of large numbers only applies to sales.
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    • Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      Independent contractors. However thats for my own convenience, not because its better necessarily. Always. I have actually hired and fired 1000 sales people in my time and every ounce of it is verifiable... believe me you dont want to open this up. and YES I have telemarketers that work for me NOW. In fact I have 20 people on this very forum who I have trained to make their first sales, some of them making up to $1000 per day now.

      Like I said, testing my metal as far as sales experience or knowledge will only have you wishing you could change your username in the morning. You dont want to do it.

      You win the law of large numbers only applies to sales.
      I'm not sure if you know this but as independent contractors/1099's you can't require them to work specific times. This follows under the labor laws. If you force them to work specific times they are considered "employees" . Something you may want to check on if you haven't already.

      Im always for good debates but I never want to see anyone get in trouble.
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by Millions Forever LLC View Post

        I'm not sure if you know this but as independent contractors/1099's you can't require them to work specific times.
        Technically... there are unspoken rules. You dont have the right to "make" a contractor work any certain hours... but you also dont have to retain them as a contractor either if you are unhappy with the way they perform... some things are unspoken and yet understood by all.

        You obviously have a firm grip on this though , so I am gonna spare myself from the embarrassment of arguing with such an obvious authority, and go to bed. You win.

        Much prosperity to you.

        -John

        Ps. Seems to me that a person so successful wouldnt have trouble believing such a small feat could be accomplished. you make my claim sound so huge and unbelievable.
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        • Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

          Technically... there are unspoken rules. You dont have the right to "make" a contractor work any certain hours... but you also dont have to retain them as a contractor either if I am unhappy with the way they perform... some things are unspoken and yet understood by all.

          You obviously have a firm grip on this though , so I am gonna spare myself from the embarrassment of arguing with such an obvious authority, and go to bed. You win.

          Much prosperity to you.

          -John
          Glad you see it my way. Have a wonderful evening !
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          • Profile picture of the author John Durham
            Originally Posted by Millions Forever LLC View Post

            Glad you see it my way. Have a wonderful evening !
            Of course. Im humbled, your level of experience shines through so obviously...
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            • Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

              Of course. Im humbled, your level of experience shines through so obviously...
              I didn't realize you were still awake. Did you have anymore questions? If not maybe we could discuss labor laws, workers compensation, employee benefits, taxes ( my favorite subject ) .

              Im always up for sharing information.
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          • Also for anyone reviewing this thread during this discussion please visit:

            Independent Contractor (Self-Employed) or Employee?



            If you have any questions regarding independent contractors the IRS website should clarify them for you.
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    • Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      Independent contractors. However thats for my own convenience, not because its better necessarily. Always. I have actually hired and fired 1000 sales people in my time and every ounce of it is verifiable... believe me you dont want to open this up. and YES I have telemarketers that work for me NOW. In fact I have 20 people on this very forum who I have trained to make their first sales, some of them making up to $1000 per day now.

      Like I said, testing my metal as far as sales experience or knowledge will only have you wishing you could change your username in the morning. You dont want to do it.

      You win the law of large numbers only applies to sales.
      lol...you know im all for debating but when you start throwing snide remarks in it's uncalled for.

      If you want me to know about me let me explain:

      Collectively with my family we own 200 properties across the United States. We own over 5000 domains that produce over $1 million annually in income. Don't believe me...go check out my profile. I posted a screen shot of my parked account.

      I highly doubt you have several employees making 1000.000 plus a day. That would equate to 5k a week, 20,000 a month (based on a 5 day work week), $240,000 a year. Now if you can show me proof I will rescind my comments.
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      Richard Saperstein
      Director of Sales & Marketing
      Millions Forever LLC

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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
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    • Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      No you go on 'sales director"... I dont have wikipedia so theres no way I could argue with such an authority. Also, I dont have "screen shots" so I obviously couldn't compare to you.
      Sorry, didn't realize the IRS.gov website was Wikipedia. I guess I should check my facts a little closer next time.

      Thanks for the heads up.
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      Richard Saperstein
      Director of Sales & Marketing
      Millions Forever LLC

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    • Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      No you go on 'sales director"... I dont have wikipedia so theres no way I could argue with such an authority. Also, I dont have "screen shots" so I obviously couldn't compare to you.

      Anyways... im off to bed now. I concede, you are a phenomenal sales rep, business owner, and entrepreneur. I'm glad you are able to look at others opinions, without judgment, and critique them in a positive and constructive manner.I look forward to learning from a leader such as yourself and can't wait for our future discussion.

      Have a wonderful evening.
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      Richard Saperstein
      Director of Sales & Marketing
      Millions Forever LLC

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  • Profile picture of the author ShawnPeter
    Hi Sardent,

    I work with existing salespeople I know or used to work/deal with. I have a Real Estate agent, Inserance agent & Tv Ads Sales lady working with me on commissions. They already have a network of clients. Many need websites & social media, especially growing their brand.

    Working with them for 3 mths now. Each of them closes a client a mth. They help me sell a $1,500 package to clients. They get $300 for each client closed. $200 recurring commissions each mth for a client closed - for 12 mths. Outsourced work for each client costs me about $150. So my take - $1K.

    If they closed 5 deals they get the full $1,500 for each client (total of $7,500) - of the 1st mth & $500 mthly for 12 mths.

    I will be having more clients & looking forward to increasing the package for each client.

    Definitely want to use the tactics in Mr John Durham's 'Million Dollar Idea'.

    My salespeople only know what the packages are about, to market to clients. Not how to do the services. Everyones happy...at least up till now.

    Here is a video for inspiration.


    I believe in focusing on what works rather than worrying on what doesn't work.
    We become what we focus on.

    Cheers!
    Shawn
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    • Originally Posted by ShawnPeter View Post

      Hi Sardent,

      I work with existing salespeople I know or used to work/deal with. I have a Real Estate agent, Inserance agent & Tv Ads Sales lady working with me on commissions. They already have a network of clients. Many need websites & social media, especially growing their brand.

      Working with them for 3 mths now. Each of them closes a client a mth. They help me sell a $1,500 package to clients. They get $300 for each client closed. $200 recurring commissions each mth for a client closed - for 12 mths. Outsourced work for each client costs me about $150. So my take - $1K.

      If they closed 5 deals they get the full $1,500 for each client (total of $7,500) - of the 1st mth & $500 mthly for 12 mths.

      I will be having more clients & looking forward to increasing the package for each client.

      Definitely want to use the tactics in Mr John Durham's 'Million Dollar Idea'.

      My salespeople only know what the packages are about, to market to clients. Not how to do the services. Everyones happy...at least up till now.

      Here is a video for inspiration.

      YouTube - Alec Baldwin - Best performance

      I believe in focusing on what works rather than worrying on what doesn't work.
      We become what we focus on.

      Cheers!
      Shawn


      Shawn if your open to constructive criticism I would like to share my opinion with you.

      I think it is great you focus on what works rather than worrying on what doesn't work.

      Let me ask you this... If you spent a little bit of time focusing on what isn't working ( if its not working, its affecting your business, bottom line and your employees earnings) wouldn't that be a benefit to you an your company?


      I'm all for using someones best talents and focusing on them ( thats what you should do) but you still can't sweep the flaws under the rug and you must find a way to constructively work on those.

      I think any business owner would want to know the flaws of their business so that way they can make the best corrections to benefit themselves. Wouldn't you agree?

      Just my opinion though.
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      Richard Saperstein
      Director of Sales & Marketing
      Millions Forever LLC

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  • Profile picture of the author ShawnPeter
    Hi Richard,

    Thanks for your advise. Indeed I'm open for criticism. I truly believe you know that I didn't mean it that way as to 'totally sweep the flaws' under the rug.

    Was highlighting the habitual 'analysis paralysis' of many. Many need to just do it, instead of worrying. If one doesn't make the mistakes, then no lessons to learn.

    Cheers!
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  • Profile picture of the author Sardent
    Hi ShawnPeter,

    How did you decide on your commission schedule?
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  • Profile picture of the author Sardent
    I want to thank everyone for their input into this thread, it's given me a lot to consider.

    I especially want to thank John and Millions Forever LLC for the breadth and variety of their knowledge.

    Where I'm coming from, John knows a little from a thread he started, is that I am 51 and basically starting life from scratch again.
    For the last decade I was the Northern California regional manager for a multi-state corporation.
    I've done it all, hiring, firing, training, HR, policy creation, and vendor/client relations.
    99% of the training manual used by this corp was developed and written by me. The upper level training, that of the training program training the trainers to train, was also developed and written by me.
    Training to do the job, training how to train, training how to interview...
    The operations/phone scripts and training were developed and written by me as well.

    I know about numbers. When it came to hiring people I would see a thousand or more applications of which I would interview 250.
    Twenty-five would be asked to return for a second interview.
    And I would have to offer 10 the job for 1 to actually show up and take it.
    I know about the numbers game.

    I ran my ass off for this company 24/7, and then the economy tanked, the company almost tanked, I was laid off, and now I'm 51, and three expensive funerals and a father of the bride bill later, and starting over from scratch.

    I simply cannot trade my time for money anymore. And certainly not for the mouses share.

    I understand my weaknesses, that's why I need to find good people to surround myself with.

    Before my wife passed away I was an artist/photographer/writer, she was the schmoozer. She was good at making the sales. Fact is, she schmoozed me into marrying her.:p

    I have an artist's passions, and if you reject my product you are rejecting me. I will probably be angry, indignant, and disgusted by your appalling lack of good taste.

    I'm a big (think grizzly adams) intimidating guy. People comment on my avatar, and in real life, and tell me to smile. I respond - I am smiling.

    If I have a forte, it's writing. The customer contact, followup, and upsell after the initial sale is no problem because I can do it by writing and no one is put off by my demeanor. I can make my writing live and breathe if necessary.

    I am apparently, also longwinded...

    Anyway, thanks for the GREAT advice guys!
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Much Love to you Sardent. I am an artist myself having been a fulltime staff songwriter for a publishing comopany for 6-7 years prior to my 30's, still love music... I understand you passion, and also how you want to leverage your time. I think offline is a great way to do that because you dont have to wait for the results... Hey you only need ONE good salesman to make yourself a KILLER income. Its well worth the effort of finding that one my friend...then you can spend your days doing what you love and keeping the fire burning!

    Hope you do just that!

    -John
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  • Profile picture of the author ShawnPeter
    Hi Sardent,

    Thank You for sharing with us. Its nice to know another artist. I do 2D animation & currently run a small '2D Animation Class' for kids.

    As for my 'Commission Schedule', I brokedown my costs and my margin into units of work - typically services and raw materials, then decided on how much I could afford
    commissions for my 'salespeople'. Some say I'm giving to much commission to my people, but I think its just fine.

    Looking forward to learning from you Sardent.

    Cheers!
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    • Profile picture of the author TK6863
      ShawnPeter,

      Sounds like you're making money while the guru's are goooooo-rrrrooooooooooooooooooing ...

      Where did you find these individuals or did you know them already?

      Sounds like your compensating them very well for their efforts.

      Great example of how to do it.

      Dd you have to cold call anyone to get your clients or go door-to-door?

      Great post ... we need more of them.

      Few things more powerful than joint ventures ha?

      Sounds like you're following Andrews recommendation ... sharp.
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      • Profile picture of the author ShawnPeter
        Hi TK6863, would just like to highlight that this is
        Sardent's Thread. I'm just happy to help answer questions, thats all.
        These methods are my 2 cents.

        Originally Posted by TK6863 View Post

        ShawnPeter,

        Sounds like you're making money while the guru's are goooooo-rrrrooooooooooooooooooing ...
        Thanks for the vote of confidence, but I'm not making any name for my self to compete with the Guru's.

        Where did you find these individuals or did you know them already?
        They are people I've known for some time. I knew the type of clients
        or companies they were dealing with. They already have a full time job.Great for my services.

        Sounds like your compensating them very well for their efforts.
        I wouldn't say - 'Very Well'. Its something I learnt from Perry Belcher.
        The reciprocal effect. Give them something of value & you will get value in return.

        Great example of how to do it.
        I don't believe its a great example, 'cos there are many ways to do it. Find whats good for you and just do it.

        Dd you have to cold call anyone to get your clients or go door-to-door?
        I cold call only if I really want that particular client. For 1 of my services, I do door to door. That is targetted at the restaurants & cafes. I do them over the weekend when I'm out with the family for brunch, teabreaks & dinners. But, you need to buy food from the menu before you present your package/s to the owners. Better still, eat there a couple of times to let them get familiar with you. (I have a new physical product that'll blow them away. It goes hand in hand with my services. Gearing it up for 2011.)

        Great post ... we need more of them. Thats what this forum is all about.
        I've had so much help from so many different Warriors. i'm sure i have much to learn from you, too.

        Few things more powerful than joint ventures ha? Not sure about that. But, if you include 'joint ventures' in your Offline services, i'm sure the potential is fantabulous (& unlimited).

        Sounds like you're following Andrews recommendation ... sharp.
        Well, I only got to know Andrew over this thread of Sardent. My Offline services was started a few mths back. I'm still NEW. LOL!
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  • Profile picture of the author Rocketguy
    I have two really successful sales people right now. They get 50% of the up front fees and 25% residual. It keeps them motivated and I still make great money.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Millions llc... thanks for the email. Im sorry man, dont know what got into me... looking forward to being friends!
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  • Profile picture of the author joshril
    There are several options when it comes to recruiting sales reps and leveraging other people to sell your product/service...

    I've been building commission-based sales teams for years, and the key to success with recruiting is to ABR... Always Be Recruiting.

    You can't throw an ad up on Craigslist one time and expect your sales allstar to come to you from the first ad. Can it happen? Yes, but it's normally going to take more than one recruiting ad to get there.

    You have to have resumes coming in regularly... even if you think you have enough sales people because you will have turnover. It's just the way it is with commission-only sales people.

    You also can't give up when a Craigslist ad doesn't work. There are a lot of other places to find sales reps. Some online... some offline. One of the best sales reps I ever recruited was a waiter at a restaurant. People in customer service jobs can make EXCELLENT sales people.

    In many cases, bringing people onboard that aren't 30 year sales veterans can make you a lot of money. Let's face it... if the 30 year sales veteran is good at selling, he/she's probably not looking for a job. And in many cases, the veteran may have bad habits and sense of entitlement. Not saying this is always the case, because I've had 60-70 year old guys working for me with 40+ years of sales experience that were awesome, but I've had a lot more that were the other way, and most of them talked about how great they were instead of actually showing it in their numbers.

    You also need to keep your training low-tech and start your reps on a simple product or service. When I first started my insurance agency several years ago, I recruited some commission-only reps and wanted them to sell multiple carriers, multiple products, etc. I learned quickly that was not the way to do it... Starting with a simple product or service that the rep can become an expert with and then adding more the mix later on makes a lot more sense.

    If you have a sales rep on salary, it's a different story, but if you're recruiting performance-based reps, then they probably can't go for several weeks or months without getting paid. They need something they can learn quickly and make money with fast. You can always add more later... Not to mention, if you focus too heavily on the tech-side of things then they'll spout off a bunch of FEATURES instead of BENEFITS to business owners... This will confuse the business owner and the business owner will say... "I want to think about it".

    Something else to point out... If you're bringing sales reps on-board on a commission-only basis, if they're involved with non-competing businesses, that's not a problem. In fact, there could be an advantage there as they will have some other contacts that they can talk to your product or service about.

    Now, there are things you can do instead of building a sales force or in conjunction with building a sales force:

    1. Find strategic partners that you send leads to that handle the selling and fulfillment while you take a cut. Basically you generate the leads or send your existing clients over to them and get paid on the ones that convert.

    Example: You or your sales force focuses on web design, but you see the need and get asked regularly if you could offer social media services. Instead of telling them no or trying to become the social media expert, you simply find a social media expert and send all of your web design clients to him/her. You get paid, and you're able to leverage the social media expert's knowledge, case studies, sales funnel, and fulfillment system.

    Obviously, this can be scaled like crazy.

    2. As someone mentioned earlier in this thread, you can get other businesses and B2B sales reps to essentially promote your stuff. You might end up having to close the sale (or have one of your seasoned sales reps do it), but you pay them a referral commission for drumming up the business for you.

    I'll end on this note... There are a lot of potential sales reps, strategic partnerships, and referral relationships out there that can really take your business to the next level. Setting these relationships up and/or recruiting sales reps does not happen on it's own. It takes action and tenacity to realize success in anything that you do.

    --Joshua
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