Lead Site Rental Thoughts

16 years ago

Originally Posted by dimeco

I know there are some lead site rental wso's out there, I've bought a few, and they all give different approaches and different pricing. (i.e., "like shooting fish in a barrel...", Peters WSO etc).

Looking at the concept of web design/rental vs. "lead" site rental for local businesses...

i.e., "we'll design your site and host it for /mo"
vs
"HairSalonInYourCity.com - you can rent this site for /mo"

Has anyone tried both and which is better to offer? (and which pays more?)

I have a concept in mind, that would utilize either of the above, but deciding between preparing the site (i.e., hair salon in your city) and trying to rent it out or just doing a custom site (if they need it) is where I'm kinda undecided.

(Oh and when I mean "lead" site - I DON'T mean the opt in kind, more like filling in content for that company specifically unless they stop paying).

Ideas?

Amber

Hi Amber,

the concept of setting up an offlince niche business site and then leasing is fine,.. BUT,... who's actually going to be interested in renting it from you unless it's going to deliver (or already is delivering quantifiable results)? ANSWER: Not very many people,.. in fact you'll probably find it as hard as trying to flog a dead horse!

On the other hand,.. if you do your homework on a particular niche and find one that has a relatively high CPC (Cost Per Click) and has some other local businesses buying adwords ads then you would have a leasing site opportunity if you did your keyword phrase research properly and then populated the site with worthwhile keyword phrase content that gets your site into the top 4 spots of the Google Page 1 organic results,... THEN,.. you have a real sales proposition that you could lease out. Such sites in my experience can be leased for an average of about $300 to $400 per month (i.e. $3.6k to $4.8k PA). You may even get some offers to buy the site outright for $3k to $5k which would be very cheap in such circumstances.

My advice is not so much to focus on "we'll design/redesign your site" but one of "we'll drive more real customers or clients to your site",.. don't even talk about SEO and Landing pages and all that technical stuff,.. just offer them results that they can relate to and you won't need to work up a hard-sell or have to overcome any objections. What business owner will object to more leads or more customers?

Hope that helps

Cheers,
Russ :-)

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vndnbrgj

16 years ago

I am setting up a niche website as well.
I am very familiar with the niche, and researched it well.
In my area, there are 400+ people a day entering a specific keyword that I will be targeting.
I don't like the idea of renting out my site for any amount of money.
I prefer to give the leads to a trusted business, and get paid a commission on the results....which translates in $10,000/month. By getting 2 customers per day, out of the 400+ people searching per day. I like the idea of $10k vs. $500.
It is a seasonal niche, but can be adjusted depending on the seasons.
And this will allow it to become extremely scalable.
Consider this when considering renting out the site.

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DennisM

16 years ago

Originally Posted by vndnbrgj

I am setting up a niche website as well.
I am very familiar with the niche, and researched it well.
In my area, there are 400+ people a day entering a specific keyword that I will be targeting.
I don't like the idea of renting out my site for any amount of money.
I prefer to give the leads to a trusted business, and get paid a commission on the results....which translates in $10,000/month. By getting 2 customers per day, out of the 400+ people searching per day. I like the idea of $10k vs. $500.
It is a seasonal niche, but can be adjusted depending on the seasons.
And this will allow it to become extremely scalable.
Consider this when considering renting out the site.

Listen...I OWN a brick and mortar business with 45 employees here in Chicago and I will tell you this. There's NO WAY I'm going to hand you $5 - 10K a month for a "commission" sale. For that kind of money I can hire one or two more employees.

"By getting 2 customers per day...."

Do you even realize what it takes to convert a lead to a SALE? Especially when you're selling a service? Great, you bring me two leads a day but there's a lot going on with the backend of the sale. Let me ask you? What is the sales cycle? For me (I'm in the training business) it could take 6+ weeks to close the sale because of the high cost. This kind of sale requires multiple follow ups, etc. All companies care about is the SALES LEAD. They're really not going to care how the lead is generated on the front end. For me, I would laugh if a business even suggested I "rent" a site for my niche. I would simply negotiate what I would pay per lead and that's it.

I've taken one of my sales reps and I have him calling ONLY the companies advertising in Google AdWords. Here's why....they're already spending money online so they get it!

Another reason I wouldn't rent a website is there's no proof on how well it converts besides the monthly search volume. To add to the mix, again, not interested in paying some ridiculous commission on a so called sale.

Dennis

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Russell Hall

16 years ago

Originally Posted by DennisM

Do you even realize what it takes to convert a lead to a SALE? Especially when you're selling a service?

I would laugh if a business even suggested I "rent" a site for my niche. I would simply negotiate what I would pay per lead and that's it.

I've taken one of my sales reps and I have him calling ONLY the companies advertising in Google AdWords. Here's why....they're already spending money online so they get it!

Another reason I wouldn't rent a website is there's no proof on how well it converts besides the monthly search volume. To add to the mix, again, not interested in paying some ridiculous commission on a so called sale.

Dennis

Good points Dennis,.. here's my view on them.

Yes it takes effort to convert a lead to a sale but the amount of effort is lessened to the extent that the lead has been prepared or qualified and as IM professionals we have many resources and funnel processes available to us to improve that with.

OK,.. so you may laugh at the prospect of renting a site, but many people think that getting 15 qualified calls or clicks through per week is a better idea than paying $3+ per click via adwords. In the greater perspective that can convert to either paying $500 per month on adwords or $250 for an organically positioned GP1 site.
Having said that,.. I can understand you or anyone preferring to pay $X dollars per lead as that's certainly more quantifiable overall.

Agreed,... those businesses already paying for adwords on the GP1 pages that you're targeting are the best prospects as they're already sold on the concept.

As for the comment that "there's no proof on how well it converts besides the monthly search volume" ,... really? What about site stats, sales funnel stats, account records from Vumber showing how many calls (also how many were and were not answered) duration of call, call location, name of caller etc? So I've got to disagree with you there. If the site has been properly set up with all the backend filtering mechanisms and admin stats then you have undeniable facts as to how that site is performing and delivering.
I agree that its a big ask to expect a large commission on a "so called sale" (i.e. a lead) but what about an arrangement where you only get paid when the lead converts,?.. this happens in real estate all the time and the commissions or introduction fees can be very handsome.

Cheers,
Russ

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Mike Grant

16 years ago

Originally Posted by DennisM

Another reason I wouldn't rent a website is there's no proof on how well it converts besides the monthly search volume. To add to the mix, again, not interested in paying some ridiculous commission on a so called sale.

Dennis

Then you're not tracking correctly.

EVERYTHING from a website can be tracked, all the way down to phone calls.

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DennisM 16 years ago

Originally Posted by mgtarheels

Then you're not tracking correctly.

EVERYTHING from a website can be tracked, all the way down to phone calls.

Mg,

I agree with your statement but what I meant by that comment was if someone approached me to sell or rent a site to ME.

I guess if someone came to me with all of these metrics including calls then I would consider purchasing/renting the site. I'm assuming the only way to get the call tracking too is if the site was sold/rented to my competitor and they no longer wanted the leads?

Dennis
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- Mike Grant 16 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by DennisM
  
  I'm assuming the only way to get the call tracking too is if the site was sold/rented to my competitor and they no longer wanted the leads?
  
  Dennis
  
  I rent some websites currently, and I already have call tracking implemented before approaching a company. It's very cheap to do.
  
  I use those metrics, along with my form submissions from the website, to approach businesses to show I'm not blowing smoke. I typically wait about a month of steady leads coming in so as not to rip off a business owner nor myself.
  
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Steve Solem

16 years ago

Originally Posted by vndnbrgj

I am setting up a niche website as well.
I am very familiar with the niche, and researched it well.
In my area, there are 400+ people a day entering a specific keyword that I will be targeting.
I don't like the idea of renting out my site for any amount of money.
I prefer to give the leads to a trusted business, and get paid a commission on the results....which translates in $10,000/month. By getting 2 customers per day, out of the 400+ people searching per day. I like the idea of $10k vs. $500.
It is a seasonal niche, but can be adjusted depending on the seasons.
And this will allow it to become extremely scalable.
Consider this when considering renting out the site.

I must be reading this differently than most here, because what I'm seeing says he plans to GIVE the leads and get paid a commission on RESULTS.

If he can make 10k a month from 2 customers a day, that's about $166 per sale. Sounds like a lot, but depending on the industry and products being sold, that might be quite reasonable based on the lifetime value of the new client and lot less that what it costs them to currently get a new client.

Now, not knowing any of the specifics all any of us can do here is guess, but I was just re-reading Shoemoney's local affiliate report tonight and he had no problem getting $75 per new customer for a dentist and making over $14k in a month...and I believe that was mostly all Facebook advertising.

Steve

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zoro

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Steve Solem

I must be reading this differently than most here, because what I'm seeing says he plans to GIVE the leads and get paid a commission on RESULTS.

If he can make 10k a month from 2 customers a day, that's about $166 per sale. Sounds like a lot, but depending on the industry and products being sold, that might be quite reasonable based on the lifetime value of the new client and lot less that what it costs them to currently get a new client.

Now, not knowing any of the specifics all any of us can do here is guess, but I was just re-reading Shoemoney's local affiliate report tonight and he had no problem getting $75 per new customer for a dentist and making over $14k in a month...and I believe that was mostly all Facebook advertising.

Steve

$75 per customer ? ... you must mean per lead sold to the denist, right?

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Vincenzo Oliva

16 years ago

If you're planning on creating the site and flipping it then customize it to them.
If you want to lease out a lead gen site then keep it generic so you can lease to a new tenant if needed :-)

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zoro

16 years ago

I prefer to sell the leads to a suitable business. For instance, I currently sell leads to a Laser Eye Clinic. Their average life time value per client is approx $3000, so I charge them 3% = $90 per lead. I invoice at 7 days. They aleays pay on time because they know if they don't, I will on sell the leads to their opposition.

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SubUrbanHype

16 years ago

If you design the site for the business and you charge them per month for hosting and maintaince, and throw in some seo work you might be able to get like $100-300 per month on a deal like that as a alternative.

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zoro

16 years ago

Yeah, I agree with DennisM. I doubt that a business would share a commission with you unless they first convert the lead. That could take days, weeks, or months.
There's a big difference between getting a lead and converting a lead.

Also, If you want to try and sell rental sites you will need to show proof of traffic.

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Amber Jalink

16 years ago

Originally Posted by DennisM

Listen...I OWN a brick and mortar business with 45 employees here in Chicago and I will tell you this. There's NO WAY I'm going to hand you $5 - 10K a month for a "commission" sale. For that kind of money I can hire one or two more employees.

<snip>

Dennis

Yeah, I wouldn't do it for a commission either.

I basically asked because I want to do some places/seo stuff (alongside what my intention is), but I wasn't sure which way to go.

Put up a few sites that were "lead" generators.... they get some traffic, but not high enough ranked to get much and although there were a few leads, two were marketers :rolleyes:

Frankly I haven't bothered trying to rank them higher because I've been really busy with some other tactics.

@Russ - thanks - Guess I should rank those higher and take my concept and see what I can do with it. I'll probably push the leads, I just really hated calling around to see who wanted them LOL - one agent said "sure" they'd take them off my hands (free). EESH. The second was great to "try" them but as soon as we were to connect to take $, he never replied or returned calls, so I let them just sit wherever they are.

My concept is a twist, so maybe I should retry with those sites.

Amber

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vndnbrgj

16 years ago

All I can say is .... WOW!
It never ceases to amaze me how naive some people can be.

"I would never pay such a ludacris commission".. or whatever was said.

You see, this business owner and I are on the same playing field.
When I give him a solid customer that he sells, within 48 hours, he collects the payment.
Now, in return for a paying customer I receive a payment of $200.
He would rather have 90+% of something, than 100% of nothing.

He has a product that's in demand.
He offers a new flat screen to every customer that goes with him.
Now, he will save some money by not having to purchase Tv's for every customer.
Then he just redirects a portion of the money he would have been spending to me.

THIS IS CALLED AN INTELLIGENT JOINT VENTURE!

Look, you pick your niches, and I will pick mine! Lol! (..All the way to the bank)

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Russell Hall

16 years ago

Originally Posted by mgtarheels

I rent some websites currently, and I already have call tracking implemented before approaching a company. It's very cheap to do.

I use those metrics, along with my form submissions from the website, to approach businesses to show I'm not blowing smoke. I typically wait about a month of steady leads coming in so as not to rip off a business owner nor myself.

Agreed 100% that this is a great philosophy and method. That's the beautiful thing about Internet Marketing in that everything is so measurable. The old days of a business owner not knowing which 50% of his advertising/marketing budget were wasted is largely a thing of the past when the metrics you've spoken of are tracked, analysed and presented.

Originally Posted by DennisM

Mg,

I agree with your statement but what I meant by that comment was if someone approached me to sell or rent a site to ME.

I guess if someone came to me with all of these metrics including calls then I would consider purchasing/renting the site. I'm assuming the only way to get the call tracking too is if the site was sold/rented to my competitor and they no longer wanted the leads?

Dennis

I'm sure Dennis that there must be a busload of new offline "consultants" that are ringing around (or knocking on doors) trying to lease sites when in fact that site may be a very poor proposition and totally unproven to be a performer even though it might look like a million bucks and comes with an assurance of "expert SEO" from the "consultant".
After a while I think I too would just start to switch off whenever I got these guys calling me. On the other hand,.. when a smart and skilled consultant finds a way in which to connect with the business owner and then shows him/her undeniable, quantifiable facts and results then we're talking a whole new language and different ballgame.
Show a business owner how to make more money and he will be calling you asking if you have time for lunch or a coffee meeting!

Originally Posted by vndnbrgj

All I can say is .... WOW!
It never ceases to amaze me how naive some people can be.

"I would never pay such a ludacris commission".. or whatever was said.

You see, this business owner and I are on the same playing field.
When I give him a solid customer that he sells, within 48 hours, he collects the payment.
Now, in return for a paying customer I receive a payment of $200.
He would rather have 90+% of something, than 100% of nothing.

He has a product that's in demand.
He offers a new flat screen to every customer that goes with him.
Now, he will save some money by not having to purchase Tv's for every customer.
Then he just redirects a portion of the money he would have been spending to me.

THIS IS CALLED AN INTELLIGENT JOINT VENTURE!

Look, you pick your niches, and I will pick mine! Lol! (..All the way to the bank)

Agreed,... this business is a gold mine of niches, sub niches, micro niches. Just find one that works for you and then milk it for all its worth (and don't go blabbing to everyone about it nor give out your URL). Rinse/repeat,... keep the bank manager happy and the wife and family even happier!

Cheers guys
Russ

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peter.max

16 years ago

It also boils down to your ability to sell you service AND then deliver on your promise. I've had success with both rental and % of sale. The last one is harder to manage but more profitable.

I agree with Dennis on the effort that it takes to convert a lead into a sale. I've been owning offline businesses for more that 18 years now and the last thing you want is someone selling to marketing. You need to establish the real metrics around leads in a specific market before you decide on the rent vs pay per lead model.

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