I think you might keep this in mind when "sharing" what and how you do Local Stuff.

10 replies
posted this over on the main discussion.

http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...z-decades.html

this is something like what I posted about awhile ago to someone who was about to teach a bunch of people, realtors I think, "how to" do local SEO etc.

It isn't the realtors, it's the guy with big bucks who can snatch your niche away from you ... so, sharing here is cool, but blabbing about how easy this biz is (which it isn't, of course, if done well) in your home town, or region, is just short sighted, at best.

Offline marketing is a reputation, skill and results thing. You don't want others doing it, and giving "local search opt" a bad name by picking the low hanging fruit, and then doing a half-assed job of helping that local merchant.

People who are new to self-employment, NOOBS, don't get this side of biz. Biz is vicious most of the time. But you can't tell a noobie anything when he believes he owns the rainbow. Rainbows tend to vanish quickly, don't they?

That just makes it harder for you. Like... some of the stories about what YP has done to some people I know.

TB

This attack against affiliates isn't a huge problem yet, but a camel's nose under your tent, needs attention.
#local #mind #sharing #stuff
  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    Local search for small market businesseses already has a bad name for exactly the reasons you've discussed.

    And to gain any kind of sustainable traction, it requires far more than technical SEO skills. I've been discussing this for quite a long time, and have really hacked off a few people around here because I don't promote the BS utopian dream.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Originally Posted by teaball View Post

    Offline marketing is a reputation, skill and results thing. You don't want others doing it, and giving "local search opt" a bad name by picking the low hanging fruit, and then doing a half-assed job of helping that local merchant.
    Exactly, some people dont want Noobs doing this. Fact is most of these huge companies have been doing it for YEARS using newbs, and they are still in BIZ. Alot of the guys they have selling this dont even know how to send an email... they arent rooms full of 100's of seo specialists selling this... yet without these ignorants the seo pros would have no job.

    There is a sector who wants to keep opportunity to themselves only... and have vested interest in others believing they are too dumb to even try.

    Your post here nails this home for me.

    To me this is a scarcity mindest. Just MHO. Its not like all the business is gonna dry up tomorrow. With companies like YP who have been making thousands of sales per month for years on end. You would think it would have dried up 10 years ago... but still every month they make thousands more sales ten years later.

    Thinking little noobs trying to get started from where they are is gonna destroy a whole industry or take all of your opportunity is scarcity mindset at its best.


    Originally Posted by teaball View Post

    People who are new to self-employment, NOOBS, don't get this side of biz. Biz is vicious most of the time. But you can't tell a noobie anything when he believes he owns the rainbow. Rainbows tend to vanish quickly, don't they?
    Everyone is new to self employment at one point or another... any noob I know personally who is succeeding and making sales knows its hard and it takes hundreds of calls to get one client... their success is well deserved...they worked hard for it and it wasnt easy... nothing "rainbow" about that.

    In the USA we call it pursueing "The American Dream", the desire to work for ones self and maybe even create opportunity for others.

    Its considered noble to chase your rainbows here... especially against the odds of a bunch of bigger smarter entities telling you you are too dumb to do it...

    Reminds me of a small group of people coming over on the mayflower with a whole big "established" country laughing behind them saying they were too small and ignorant to make it work... then when they did, that country came after them and started a war, and got their ass wooped by the ignorant people...the people who proved that the big countries way wasnt the only way.

    Later the ignorant small group of people showed their grace and mercy to the big country that wanted them to think they were too dumb, small and ignorant to bring any real value to the world!!

    I think peoples attitude toward newbs selling offline services is the same. Dont hate someone for trying to succeed...

    Some people remind me of that little guy in Lord of the Rings running around saying "My precious, my preciious"...

    Not mentioning anyone particular, seriously.

    The day when newbs are discouraged by the people they look up to is sad.

    Why not create for them a wso that shows them how to do it right instead of discouraging them from trying... or discouraging good hearted people from "Sharing"?

    Wouldnt that make you a better human than one who makes fun of people for "chasing rainbows"?
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  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    Just make sure your E&O policy is in force when you start chasing those rainbows.



    John, I wish any and all who enter the business great success. There is indeed much opportunity to go around.

    However, I keep tripping across one disaster area after another, with screwed over business owners that have been taken advantage of and sold a total pig in a poke. Some of those dream chasers have really done a number.

    I actually care about the business owner. In addition to being a marketing consultant, I also have owned multiple small businesses. I know what kinds of garbage get promoted. It's horrible the sheer volume of phone calls and annoyances that a business owner gets from online marketers.... all selling the same crap the same way.

    I think there are a lot of people smart enough to do it. I also think that there's a large number of opportunist sham artists who can talk a great game.

    It's THOSE people who I am discouraging from getting involved. Business owners are getting very wise, very quickly. In fact, I just attended a local chamber of commerce briefing about internet marketing scam artists selling offline services.

    Now why do you suppose that organizations like chambers of commerce are actually even having those kinds of presentations for their members?

    Probably for the same reason that the FTC is hammering the practices of the internet marketing business.

    If there wasn't a problem in the mine shaft, the canary wouldn't be dead.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by MichaelHiles View Post

      Just make sure your E&O policy is in force when you start chasing those rainbows.



      John, I wish any and all who enter the business great success. There is indeed much opportunity to go around.

      However, I keep tripping across one disaster area after another, with screwed over business owners that have been taken advantage of and sold a total pig in a poke.

      I actually care about the business owner.
      I wasnt meaning you Michael ... you have been a big encouragement to me with my own dreams personally, and have even taken personal time to help me and even pray for me ... I appreciate the HECK out of you!

      I think that even some of the old schoolers, who have now learned alot of lessons about the nature of helping a small biz created some disasters when they first started out... ... which resulted in the crash of the dot com boom... some of those guys are well qualified from their failures now and have learned with time.

      Everyone Im sure cares about the business owners...

      My point is, why not give them a step by step on how to help biz owners instead of saying "You arent qualified" and bashing them for trying.
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      • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
        Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

        I wasnt meaning you Michael ... you have been a big encouragement to me with my own dreams personally, and have even taken personal time to help me and even pray for me ... I appreciate the HECK out of you!

        I think that even some of the old schoolers, who have now learned alot of lessons about the nature of helping a small biz created some disasters when they first started out... nobody has a 100% successs rate at helping biz opwners... which resulted in the crash of the dot com boom...

        Everyone Im sure cares about the business owners...

        My point is, why not give them a step by step on how to help biz owners instead of saying "You arent qualified" and bashing them for trying.
        I just try to balance the pie in the sky with reality. I'm not trying to be a dream stealer or Mr. Negativity.

        When we consult with business owners, we're actually tampering with their entire lives. It's not a freewheeling, flippant numbers game to be taken lightly when someone places their trust in you.

        As for helping more people, after much deliberation for quite a long time, I've decided to go forward with the B2B marketing program.
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        • Profile picture of the author John Durham
          Originally Posted by MichaelHiles View Post

          After much deliberation for quite a long time, I've decided to go forward with the B2B marketing program.
          You should. People need your knowledge. I know you feel its self promotional, or have in the past... but it REALLY REALLY helps people. You could really change some peoples lives and help them do it right.
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          • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
            Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

            You should. People need your knowledge. I know you feel its self promotional, or have in the past... but it REALLY REALLY helps people. You could really change some peoples lives and help them do it right.
            I don't mind being self-promotional.

            My biggest hurdle has been getting over the idea that 1/10th of 1% will actually ever do anything substantial with what they've paid me to learn.
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            • Profile picture of the author John Durham
              Originally Posted by MichaelHiles View Post

              I don't mind being self-promotional.

              My biggest hurdle has been getting over the idea that 1/10th of 1% will actually ever do anything substantial with what they've paid me to learn.
              JF Straw told me, that that 1% is worth it, to help someone change their life for the better.

              Look at YOU, you were that one percent at one time... later down the road the 1% multiplies and alot of people are better for it because of your influence... Even the failures learn from their failure, and if it takes 100 tries to succeed they only have 99 to go after attempting what you tried to teach them.

              Later that knowledge will serve them even if it doesnt now, in some way.

              What if your teaching only reaches 1% and that 1% is the next Frank Kern?

              I think you are an awesome teacher personally Michael... not everyone has what it takes to succeed, but they can all benefit from what you have to share.

              Im out lol. It would be easy for me to spend all of Monday on the WF... gotta watch that. lol
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  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    Sshhh... you're going to ruin my reputation for wearing cranky pants all the time.

    Seriously though. You're right. I should be helping more people, and I will.
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    • Profile picture of the author teaball
      John

      My comments above are accurate and real. I don't discourage anyone ... I encourage noobies to build a business, not some fly by night idea that lasts 15 minutes. Most people who are new to business have no idea what or where to start.

      So, they jump in and fail ... when failing was quite easy to avoid with a plan, some advice from an experienced person, etc.

      You see my signature file below. I mean it with my whole heart. I have been in biz with, and, without education, experience or mentors. "With" those 3 things is much better.

      Many of your posts are critical of somebody or something. You are good at twisting whats on the page into some passionate diatribe. Unfortunately, I would disagree with your sentimental views, but I don't say so.

      Yep, this is a free country where a person is free to try anything within the law. That's a pretty big and deep pool.

      I have helped and continue to help people all over the world in their businesses ... for free. Numerous have retired when they were 25 years younger than me because how much money and personal success they have had in a short time.

      All of the past and current associations came with rules. The rules kept them on track and focused on the basics of running a business. They aren't affiliates. They are partners. They all have one thing in common. They listened, asked the right questions, enacted a plan, followed the plan. They worked hard at what they wanted to do. I just showed them the short cut is the long cut.

      Forty years in biz and loving every single day, even the bad ones. Forty two people have partnered with me over the past 35 years. I did for them what several someones did for me, along the way.

      They told me the truth about how to succeed in biz, showed me, guided me and a few times financed me.

      I use the same darn rules found in any college entrepreneurship textbook. The last rule not in the textbook is mine and a requirement of the association. "Once you are successful for 5 years of growth, you must do the same that I have done for you - teach another new person to succeed at what they want to do, each year, a new one (That's all the retired ones do now). Then they can buy me out, but most have started well before 5 years is up ... hint: that's one of the secrets to their success.

      Like most new people in business, perhaps you presume too much, and conclude too soon.

      My first rule: Be patient and listen and ponder the idea or concept without emotion.

      That was the lesson I learned from the man I grew up 2 houses away. He was the most successful insurance agent in a mid-size city. I was 14 and he taught me how to dominate my market with patience, excellence through planning and execution.

      I found out years later, the he had 15 or so agents he had "grown" into their own agencies around the metro area. My activities for and with others is similar but with a twist.

      My concept was stolen from the popular TV show of my youth, "Mission Impossible". I kinda became a Mr. Phelps, to bring some people together to help a new guy, a NOOB. Some of the new guys and gals had some money, some had nothing but a job. But they had a dream to do something.

      A great and heart warming one, was the gal in Texas, now a Mom, who had been an orphan in her teens. She wanted to start an orphanage but saw it was better to recruit parents to adopt orphans in her area. She and her husband are still at it and hundreds of kids have had parents, instead of social services. And, totally self-funded.

      So, as I encouraged the other fellow to do his thing with local search, but don't mess with seminars, until he was an expert in performance, I encourage you to become better at not overreacting to words on a screen, as if you know everything you need to know to make a judgement about someone or some idea. That way, you won't miss the subtle lessons laid out before you.

      An old lesson from a wise woman: "What would you think, if you knew that one important/critical thing about that person, you don't now know?"

      Peace brother.

      TB
      Signature
      The short cut to success is always the long cut for lasting success.
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