GET BIGGER DEALS!!! Sell Your Services To Larger Companies!

57 replies
I know that this may conflict with some of the philosophies of even some of my good friends here on Warrior Forum. I want to first make it clear that my scope in selling to business is not the "small market", which really seems to be the focus of a lot of offline efforts. I focus on larger companies in the SMB market.

"Small market" refers to the smallest of small businesses... micro enterprises, usually at or under $1 million per year in sales - but could be as high as $2-5 million. Mostly retail-oriented or small, private practice service providers.

Now there's nothing wrong with those companies at all. They're great businesses, and many are extremely savvy and profitable. But they are characterized by owner-operators who typically run the business out of a checkbook. They typically have little long-term planning, budgeting, etc...

I'm not trying to belittle these tiny businesses at all. They're the backbone of our economy, and ALL businesses started out as small enterprises. But small businesses that stay small do so for lots of reasons - many spelled out in the book E-Myth, by Michael Gerber.

The problem with selling to small markets is they're under-capitalized, fickle, want far more hand holding, and are ultimately the most competitive market space for other service providers looking to convert them to paying clients. This translates into downward pressure on price, limited ability to engage, and a higher demand for more services for the money.

Do you really want to compete in that space forever?

Well, maybe you do. Maybe you thrive on it. I know a lot of my Warrior Forum friends love that sort of deal.

There's nothing wrong with it!

I've done lots of business in the small market space - millions of dollars worth of direct marketing and online marketing campaigns actually.

But I really experienced a SIGNIFICANT jump in income when I started focusing on larger businesses. I would rather invest the time and effort into creating relationships with larger companies that have the money, the resources, and the longer-term planning ability (long term = STABLE REVENUE FOR ME).

The differences are numerous, but when it comes to actually making a sale to the bigger accounts, the number one selling difference is:

SELLING IS NOT AN EVENT, IT'S A PROCESS.

The patience required to manage a large account and navigate through the process is certainly a lot more than a lot of professionals are interested in exhibiting. Again, that's not a shortcoming - it's simply a difference.

So what does this process look like?

Well, it's a multiple step, series of "phases", where different kinds of activity happen to further along the prospective client towards a close.

There can be many steps involved, depending on the size and complexity of the organization, the kind of deal, etc... which brings us to another concept:

EVERY DEAL IS UNIQUE.

There literally is no such thing as a "template" or "script" that a lot of my contemporary small market friends rely upon for selling.

The sales professional becomes an entrepreneur all over again each time they're presented with a new client engagement opportunity. Presenting the benefits of a customized solution that fits the particular needs of a client literally becomes a business unit - in fact, in large consulting firms, a single large account can literally become a standalone "practice", where the sales rep becomes a sort of mini-CEO over the entire relationship.

The Phases of a Large Sale

While each deal is unique, and may have many steps to reach a contract, a lot of the activity falls into these phases or categories:

1. Generating the initial interest

This is, of course, lead generation. There's a lot of discussion about all the kinds of tactics involved in creating that interest - everything from cold calling, to event speaking, to social media. There's no "right" or "wrong" answer to any tactic - just effort and ROI. Some markets may respond better to a particular kind of tactic than others. Some kinds of services may be sold in a fashion more efficiently than another.

The interest generated could be extremely intense on the front end, which is where a lot of inexperienced professionals may fall short in the large sale process. They assume that because an individual might express a lot of interest right off the bat, that the prospect is ready to close. Even the owner of the company might be super excited, and after all, they're the ultimate decisionmaker. Right?

Except for one thing - larger organizations involve many people in making decisions. Even the owner or CEO who expresses interest will almost always hand off the project to a lieutenant or some evaluation committee to recommend a decision. Yes, getting the CEO excited is a surefire way to fast track a deal. But I've seen it time and again where the newbie sales pro starts reaching for the deal signing pen, and the CEO tosses them over to a manager. This usually leaves the inexperienced seller dejected, deflated, and uninterested in following through with a longer process because they were emotionally invested in the idea of a fast close.

2. Initial Follow Up

This phase follows the initial interest expressed by a prospect. The follow-up is to do a whole bunch of things like qualify the prospect further as a real candidate for your services, figuring out what the decisionmaking process is within the company to help map a gameplan, etc...

This is the phase to help determine whether or not there's a good match for each party in the relationship. This is a two way street here. A sales pro should be attempting to evaluate the relationship as much as the prospect. A novice might get enamored with the idea of landing a big whale of an account, but fall short because they were blinded to all kinds of trouble spots that could develop into disagreements and tension down the road.

There may be multiple follow-up activities that take place before actually getting into the the door for an initial meeting or presentation. It could require phone conversations, sending marketing materials, demos, etc... and actually require coordinating multiple people and schedules to get to a presentation.

3. The Initial Presentation

This is ultimately the goal of the last phase. This is the sales meeting, or meetings, that have a single purpose - convincing a prospect to sign a contract with you - or "closing the deal".

This could be a single meeting, or actually involve many steps again, such as an initial presentation, an analysis or needs assessment, a demo, etc... It could also involve just a single meeting with a single person - but more likely it will be a series of engagements with multiple constituents that may be affected by the decision to secure your services.

For example, there may be an operations manager, an accounting person, a customer service representative, etc... who are all affected in different ways by the services that you provide - and the promised outcome of that service (increased sales, more customers, etc...). Being able to relate to the individual perspectives is very important here - and requires an understanding of a business operation beyond just the narrow view of your own area of expertise.

The operations manager isn't just thinking about getting more visits to the website. They're thinking about how many additional staff members will be required to support the influx of new business. Being able to translate the outcomes of the services provided into the worldview of each constituent will further help a consultant move the deal towards a close.

Failing to secure the support of the influencers of the decision-maker will be one of the biggest failings of the inexperienced professional. This could be anything from failing to address the needs of the client, failing to articulate the benefits in a manner that is understood and accepted, and so on. Most deals are made or broken in this phase.

Of course, the ultimate goal of this phase is landing the deal, getting the assignment, closing the sale, whatever you want to call the act of getting a signed commitment by an authorized decisionmaker.

4. Closing The Deal

This involves securing a signed agreement, purchase order, or contract, which invariably means negotiating. This is another phase where a lot of different kinds of activity goes on. This is also a killer phase where a lot of hard work goes down the tubes at the last minute - which is always a real crusher because it got so far, only to be sunk 100 feet before the finish line.

That's why it's important to "dot your i's and cross your t's" in every step to this point. Deals can unravel quickly - literally in minutes.

Having everything in order to move towards a close involves a lot of mutual understanding, give and take, and clear articulation and acceptance of the expectations of each party. If you require a deposit, don't spring it on them buried somewhere in some article 26-D of the contract. The closing phase is NOT the place for surprises.

5. Keeping The Deal

This is, of course, paramount. This means that you are actually delivering based on the expectations that were established. Contracts can be cancelled and consultants invited into the street - so that means the deal isn't really done until the job has been fully completed and accepted by the client to their satisfaction.

THE CONTRACT IS THE ULTIMATE GUIDEPOST!

This is why I cringe when I see shoddy work being performed with no contract. That contract is your saving grace when a question arises about the work being performed. If it isn't covered in the contract, you are flapping in the breeze. You're a clay pigeon, sailing through the air, waiting for the shotgun pellets to blast you apart.

However, when the contract is completed according to expectations, everyone is paid in full and happy, a bigger company usually results in a lot more future business, lots of referral opportunities, heavyweight testimonials, and other career-skyrocketing things that everyone needs to do the next deal, and the next one, and the next one.



Okay, that should be plenty to get your gears turning.

Don't be afraid of a big deal. Just be sure to have your act together, and understand that it's a PROCESS, not an EVENT.

Now go find a $50,000 contract.
#company #intermediate #larger #level #process #selling #services
  • Profile picture of the author Nathan Alexander
    And THAT's why I love you here. You're an invaluable asset here Michael. Thank you. And please, if ever you're in my neck of the woods, please let me buy you dinner.

    (I just re-read some other posts of yours and they're gold. That's another reason I'm on a MHH--"Michael Hiles High")

    You know, I might just have to get a t-shirt with your face on it. (My wife won't let me where Dan Kennedy's, but she doesn't know who you are so it might work for a bit...)
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    I like this post alot because you are bridging the gap between two seemingly opposing philosophy's... and bringing clarity.

    There are different types of Markets and customers.

    There is the type of customer who pays 5k down and 3k per month for intense marketing services.

    There are also those who pay 10 million down for HUGE contracts and massive services...

    Then there are those who will never pay ANY of those kinds of prices... Mom and Pop people... who just want a website and they want to just stick their toes in with $500 or $1000

    They only want maybe a static website with a form...

    I think newbs should focus on the last guys, and develop themselves onto pro's who can do the 10k sites and charge 3k per month if that is their desire... or even 10 Million dollar clients if thats their dream...

    There is a difference in Markets and a difference in the level of professionalism required for each.

    When you are a newb who wants to get in, there is an "entry level"....

    But here's the kicker: You may know enough to sell to a mom and pop and deliver what they want... but you DONT know enough to take on a client like Coca Cola and deliver what they want.

    People pay their dues and grow... there is a message for pro's and there is an entry level message for newbs, who are trying to become pro's.

    I can teach any newb how to get $1,000 client in the mom and pop world within 5 days, and how to repeat the process, and/or scale it out... but the kind of sales Michael talks about will require a different and more advanced process and or skill set.

    There is a time and place for all teaching...

    So, as a friend... I have to tell you this one (friend) is fine Hiles!!!

    I like the way you have created distinction, and polarity for the issue!!

    This post is an advancement to what has been becoming a stagnate issue...

    Bravo.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
    Michael,

    As always great post, an invaluable contribution.

    I know I spout off a lot about being a closer and closing the deal yet everything you mentioned in your post is what being a closer is "ALL" about!

    Closing in its purest form is getting a clean deal, on paper, for the right price, for the right services the company needs, setting expectations, and clearly defining the rules, boundaries, and future for the relationship. Then fulfilling your obligations and getting paid!

    Yeah, its usually pretty easy to get in and shut down a business that is run by the owner because they are the only decision maker, but the process you have outlined is still the same if your doing it "RIGHT", except the follow up if your like me. = )
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    • Profile picture of the author sdentrepreneur
      Great Post Michael, I went through those growing pains with smaller clients and still have a few lingering around. I work with a start social media company and we are looking and have the ability to maintain Internet Marketing and Social Media for small to large corporations.
      We should talk shop sometime, will PM you.
      Signature

      Learn to become Digital, Internet and Social Media Marketing Consultant to Business Owners
      Click here to learn more - Internet, Digital and Social Media Marketing Training Course

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    • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
      Originally Posted by Nathan Alexander View Post

      And THAT's why I love you here. You're an invaluable asset here Michael. Thank you. And please, if ever you're in my neck of the woods, please let me buy you dinner.

      (I just re-read some other posts of yours and they're gold. That's another reason I'm on a MHH—"Michael Hiles High")

      You know, I might just have to get a t-shirt with your face on it. (My wife won't let me where Dan Kennedy's, but she doesn't know who you are so it might work for a bit…)
      Thanks for the kind words Nathan. I don't get to Minneapolis much in January.

      I don't think that your wife would much appreciate a t-shirt with my pic on it either. Dan has far more hair than myself, although I could shave just one of Dan's lambchops off and use it as a hairpiece.

      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      I like this post alot because you are bridging the gap between two seemingly opposing philosophy's... and bringing clarity.

      There are different types of Markets and customers.

      There is the type of customer who pays 5k down and 3k per month for intense marketing services.

      There are also those who pay 10 million down for HUGE contracts and massive services...

      Then there are those who will never pay ANY of those kinds of prices... Mom and Pop people... who just want a website and they want to just stick their toes in with $500 or $1000

      They only want maybe a static website with a form...

      I think newbs should focus on the last guys, and develop themselves onto pro's who can do the 10k sites and charge 3k per month if that is their desire... or even 10 Million dollar clients if thats their dream...

      There is a difference in Markets and a difference in the level of professionalism required for each.

      When you are a newb who wants to get in, there is an "entry level"....

      But here's the kicker: You may know enough to sell to a mom and pop and deliver what they want... but you DONT know enough to take on a client like Coca Cola and deliver what they want.

      People pay their dues and grow... there is a message for pro's and there is an entry level message for newbs, who are trying to become pro's.

      I can teach any newb how to get $1,000 client in the mom and pop world within 5 days, and how to repeat the process, and/or scale it out... but the kind of sales Michael talks about will require a different and more advanced process and or skill set.

      There is a time and place for all teaching...

      So, as a friend... I have to tell you this one (friend) is fine Hiles!!!

      I like the way you have created distinction, and polarity for the issue!!

      This post is an advancement to what has been becoming a stagnate issue...

      Bravo.

      Bingo.

      I realized that most of the posts in this forum are geared towards Mom & Pop shops - once call close sort of thing. Ultra small micro enterprise where the selling is not a lot more advanced than a consumer sale.

      HOWEVER

      That being said, the principles are very much the same. All those steps in the complex sale process have meaning, and the decision process is very much the same, just involving fewer people.

      I think the big transition for most people is getting away from EMOTIONAL selling, and shifting to an ROI-driven VALUE-BASED selling method.

      While someone can certainly establish a small business of their own selling $500 deals, and even be quite comfortable, eventually they will run into the issue of dealing with a larger company.

      Now I don't want people to think that I am solely talking about the Coca-Cola's or other Global 3000 multinational companies here either. There are millions and millions of businesses in the $3 million to $100 million per year range. The average office park is full of these kinds of companies.

      In fact, when you master selling at the intermediate level, moving to the giant companies is really not any big deal at all because you don't even sell all of Coca-Cola at once. You sell ONE DIVISION AT A TIME, which is smaller, more manageable.

      I think the reality is that if they stay at it, each and every offliner will eventually run into this kind of opportunity. Knowing the differences in the game will certainly help them expand their awareness and understanding of the bigger world of B2B selling.

      Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

      Michael,

      As always great post, an invaluable contribution.

      I know I spout off a lot about being a closer and closing the deal yet everything you mentioned in your post is what being a closer is "ALL" about!

      Closing in its purest form is getting a clean deal, on paper, for the right price, for the right services the company needs, setting expectations, and clearly defining the rules, boundaries, and future for the relationship. Then fulfilling your obligations and getting paid!

      Yeah, its usually pretty easy to get in and shut down a business that is run by the owner because they are the only decision maker, but the process you have outlined is still the same if your doing it "RIGHT", except the follow up if your like me. = )
      Indeed Rus. There's really no substantive difference with B2B selling when it's done this way. The decision-making steps are all there. In the small market, it might happen faster and involve a lot fewer people - even just one, the owner.

      I think this really confuses a lot of people because selling to small market owners a la the hard, one-call close is a lot closer to B2C selling - trying to identify the emotional triggers, etc... which clearly does work on many small business owners.

      BUT, the reality is that any experienced business owner that has been around for any length of time will have likely transitioned away from reactionary decisionmaking for their business, and shifted into an ROI mode of thinking. When a business-owner makes a bad emotional decision that sets their business back a couple years because they bought into some slick sales pitch for a deal that went south... well that business owner will quickly resolve themselves to place all kinds of stop gaps between themselves and the decision... gatekeepers, influencers, purchasing agents, evaluation committees, etc...

      They become fairly resistant to the AIDA kinds of structures, which is why even copywriters will tell you how different B2B copywriting is for selling.

      This means that the seasoned business owner is probably far less receptive to the telemarketing scripting or one-call hard closing techniques. Again, doesn't mean those methods of selling are bad or invalid - just specific to a particular kind of target prospect profile.

      That's where we get into the idea of the numbers game vs. developing relationships and lead nurturing. The one-call closing game is based on finding that needle in a haystack, where we go through a whole bunch of people on a list to find the one that is receptive to the message and ready to buy right this very second.

      This is a very "seller-focused" approach - because it jams the prospect into the seller's format of selling. Which is great for tiny businesses and/or fairly unsophisticated businessowners.

      That's where the philosophy is simply that of sheer volume. Make up the difference by calling on more people to find the ones who are receptive to the pitch and approach. If you ask enough people to buy something right that second, a few of them actually will.

      When I was a young and single, several of us guys would make a game out of just going up to random girls in nightclubs and asking them to give us a kiss right there on the spot. If you can endure getting smacked, threatened by boyfriends, etc... you'll actually get one.

      But what about all those businesses that were contacted where they weren't ready to buy right that moment - but actually might buy at some point if the marketing and selling approach were structured and broken into process steps aligned with that company's internal decisionmaking processes that take place regardless of the intention of the seller?

      Most businesses have some form of established decision-making. They have a process that exists outside of the sales person's intentions. It's up to that sales person to uncover the process for the organization, and work within that program - because you aren't going to jam them into your program.

      Again - no right or wrong answer per se - just a different level of selling that dictates different rules of the road.

      My own opinion is that the small market is the proverbial "low hanging fruit", which means they're extremely accessible. But as a result of the low barrier to entry into that size of market, the money is tight and the competition is so heavy. That's why we see discussions like lowering price to beat a competitor. BOO HISS!!

      Ultimately, I think that it comes down to people finding a level that they're comfortable with, and adapt to whatever the success protocol is for that tier of business selling.

      NOW... just because someone is young or inexperienced doesn't mean they can't clean up, dress professionally, and go out knocking on big doors.

      I WAS DOING THIS STUFF AT 17 YEARS OLD.

      I am proof that even an inexperienced, young person can learn to sell even complex business solutions. I was selling PC-based MCBA accounting systems to small business owners when I was in high school. I was the only 17 year old in my entire county earning $60K a year in commissions - in the mid-1980s.

      Selling a $30,000 PC network and accounting installation is very much a complex sale that involves multiple meetings and discussions to get the deals.

      An important thing to remember is that because these kinds of sales take time, the solution for newbies starting out is to BALANCE YOUR PIPELINE.

      A consultant has to mix up the size of deals so they have immediate-term income to eat on while chasing a couple of larger deals at a time. As you land more and more bigger contracts, you can afford to shift your cash flow around and eliminate the small potatoes. If you fill up your pipeline with nothing but large deals, you might not eat a whole lot for 3-6 months.

      This gets into the idea of having a pipeline of prospects at various stages, and working multiple deals at at time instead of the synchronous, linear approach of one deal, one close at a time. Of course this requires some sort of tracking system and good multi-tasking and management skill sets. Knowing where the conversation is at with each person in each deal requires some discipline and tracking with good notes, etc...

      It does require some "polish" and an understanding of business decision process, but like any other skill set - those can be learned and mastered.

      The key point here is that it is a very doable thing.

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      • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
        I agree with you Michael!

        At this point in my life I have the luxury of having pitched 1000's of people behind me.

        From high powered government officials (federal level), even the General of the Army for Egypt, (great guy), GSA, VA, small and large businesses, all they way down to the public school janitor.

        One thing that they all have in common is that they are people who all have wants, desires and needs.

        Our jobs are to pin those down within the frame work of how their company is structured and show them how what you have meets them all with a nice ROI to boot.

        Sometimes we have to address the wants, desires, and needs of several different people filling different roles within a company too reach the desired outcome. That can take more then one meeting in most cases but sometimes you can get a deal sewn up on the first meet.

        Sometimes we are addressing the roles that several different people fill when speaking to just one person, the small business owner who wears all those hats him/herself. We still have to address the same things, and if it happens that we fail in one area we may still loose the "deal".

        The ability that I have which enables me to close almost every one "I" want as a customer has come with many many years of learning how to find out quickly what each persons wants, desires, and needs are; and then showing them how what I have meets those in each case for each department of their business.

        There is no set scripting, there is no exact precise way to do it. Each person is an individual and will respond based on their experiences, and in some cases as you mentioned experiences with previous salespeople that have set them back.

        So in the end, I use ROI and meet the wants, desires and needs of the people who make the decision, or who contribute to making the decision to get the job done.




        Originally Posted by MichaelHiles View Post

        Thanks for the kind words Nathan. I don't get to Minneapolis much in January.

        I don't think that your wife would much appreciate a t-shirt with my pic on it either. Dan has far more hair than myself, although I could shave just one of Dan's lambchops off and use it as a hairpiece.




        Bingo.

        I realized that most of the posts in this forum are geared towards Mom & Pop shops - once call close sort of thing. Ultra small micro enterprise where the selling is not a lot more advanced than a consumer sale.

        HOWEVER

        That being said, the principles are very much the same. All those steps in the complex sale process have meaning, and the decision process is very much the same, just involving fewer people.

        I think the big transition for most people is getting away from EMOTIONAL selling, and shifting to an ROI-driven VALUE-BASED selling method.

        While someone can certainly establish a small business of their own selling $500 deals, and even be quite comfortable, eventually they will run into the issue of dealing with a larger company.

        Now I don't want people to think that I am solely talking about the Coca-Cola's or other Global 3000 multinational companies here either. There are millions and millions of businesses in the $3 million to $100 million per year range. The average office park is full of these kinds of companies.

        In fact, when you master selling at the intermediate level, moving to the giant companies is really not any big deal at all because you don't even sell all of Coca-Cola at once. You sell ONE DIVISION AT A TIME, which is smaller, more manageable.

        I think the reality is that if they stay at it, each and every offliner will eventually run into this kind of opportunity. Knowing the differences in the game will certainly help them expand their awareness and understanding of the bigger world of B2B selling.



        Indeed Rus. There's really no substantive difference with B2B selling when it's done this way. The decision-making steps are all there. In the small market, it might happen faster and involve a lot fewer people - even just one, the owner.

        I think this really confuses a lot of people because selling to small market owners a la the hard, one-call close is a lot closer to B2C selling - trying to identify the emotional triggers, etc... which clearly does work on many small business owners.

        BUT, the reality is that any experienced business owner that has been around for any length of time will have likely transitioned away from reactionary decisionmaking for their business, and shifted into an ROI mode of thinking. When a business-owner makes a bad emotional decision that sets their business back a couple years because they bought into some slick sales pitch for a deal that went south... well that business owner will quickly resolve themselves to place all kinds of stop gaps between themselves and the decision... gatekeepers, influencers, purchasing agents, evaluation committees, etc...

        They become fairly resistant to the AIDA kinds of structures, which is why even copywriters will tell you how different B2B copywriting is for selling.

        This means that the seasoned business owner is probably far less receptive to the telemarketing scripting or one-call hard closing techniques. Again, doesn't mean those methods of selling are bad or invalid - just specific to a particular kind of target prospect profile.

        That's where we get into the idea of the numbers game vs. developing relationships and lead nurturing. The one-call closing game is based on finding that needle in a haystack, where we go through a whole bunch of people on a list to find the one that is receptive to the message and ready to buy right this very second.

        This is a very "seller-focused" approach - because it jams the prospect into the seller's format of selling. Which is great for tiny businesses and/or fairly unsophisticated businessowners.

        That's where the philosophy is simply that of sheer volume. Make up the difference by calling on more people to find the ones who are receptive to the pitch and approach. If you ask enough people to buy something right that second, a few of them actually will.

        When I was a young and single, several of us guys would make a game out of just going up to random girls in nightclubs and asking them to give us a kiss right there on the spot. If you can endure getting smacked, threatened by boyfriends, etc... you'll actually get one.

        But what about all those businesses that were contacted where they weren't ready to buy right that moment - but actually might buy at some point if the marketing and selling approach were structured and broken into process steps aligned with that company's internal decisionmaking processes that take place regardless of the intention of the seller?

        Most businesses have some form of established decision-making. They have a process that exists outside of the sales person's intentions. It's up to that sales person to uncover the process for the organization, and work within that program - because you aren't going to jam them into your program.

        Again - no right or wrong answer per se - just a different level of selling that dictates different rules of the road.

        My own opinion is that the small market is the proverbial "low hanging fruit", which means they're extremely accessible. But as a result of the low barrier to entry into that size of market, the money is tight and the competition is so heavy. That's why we see discussions like lowering price to beat a competitor. BOO HISS!!

        Ultimately, I think that it comes down to people finding a level that they're comfortable with, and adapt to whatever the success protocol is for that tier of business selling.

        NOW... just because someone is young or inexperienced doesn't mean they can't clean up, dress professionally, and go out knocking on big doors.

        I WAS DOING THIS STUFF AT 17 YEARS OLD.

        I am proof that even an inexperienced, young person can learn to sell even complex business solutions. I was selling PC-based MCBA accounting systems to small business owners when I was in high school. I was the only 17 year old in my entire county earning $60K a year in commissions - in the mid-1980s.

        Selling a $30,000 PC network and accounting installation is very much a complex sale that involves multiple meetings and discussions to get the deals.

        An important thing to remember is that because these kinds of sales take time, the solution for newbies starting out is to BALANCE YOUR PIPELINE.

        A consultant has to mix up the size of deals so they have immediate-term income to eat on while chasing a couple of larger deals at a time. As you land more and more bigger contracts, you can afford to shift your cash flow around and eliminate the small potatoes. If you fill up your pipeline with nothing but large deals, you might not eat a whole lot for 3-6 months.

        This gets into the idea of having a pipeline of prospects at various stages, and working multiple deals at at time instead of the synchronous, linear approach of one deal, one close at a time. Of course this requires some sort of tracking system and good multi-tasking and management skill sets. Knowing where the conversation is at with each person in each deal requires some discipline and tracking with good notes, etc...

        It does require some "polish" and an understanding of business decision process, but like any other skill set - those can be learned and mastered.

        The key point here is that it is a very doable thing.

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  • Profile picture of the author Chloe Sloane
    Michael I own an administrative services company. I promote my "offline" business via the web. Your message is consistent and reflects a lot of experience. I don't post on Warrior Forum much but I do read a lot.

    My observation is this forum is filled with people who are more interested in being quick buck artists and not serious about building a real business. I am not sure that your experience is really understood or valued. But rest assured that some of us are really taking notes and paying attention.
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    • Profile picture of the author blackstone
      Michael, what you, Vagabond 007 and John Durham are sharing is real value.
      This is marketing.

      I notice that you and Vagabond's stuff doesn't get a ton of replies.
      I'm guessing it's because it's not as "cool" as selling SEO services or social media (just examples) or a lot of stuff.
      Probably because it's work and requires producing real measured results.

      I know this is an IM forum, primarily, and we tend to look at IM as a solution to all problems.
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      • Profile picture of the author Vagabond 007
        Originally Posted by blackstone View Post

        Michael, what you, Vagabond 007 and John Durham are sharing is real value.
        This is marketing.

        I notice that you and Vagabond's stuff doesn't get a ton of replies.
        I'm guessing it's because it's not as "cool" as selling SEO services or social media (just examples) or a lot of stuff.
        Probably because it's work and requires producing real measured results.
        You noticed that too. Funny how that works huh? Most people respond better to the "Make $42,958 today using this simple 1, 2, 3 formula" type of stuff.

        Anyway, Michael....GREAT posts!! Very informative. Thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge and experience. It is appreciated.
        Signature
        The Ultimate Sales & Marketing Mind Map (Just updated - now twice as big!) - scott_krech - "Quite possibly one of the BEST WSO's ever."

        www.UltimateMindMap.com


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        • Profile picture of the author John Durham
          Originally Posted by Vagabond 007 View Post

          You noticed that too. Funny how that works huh? Most people respond better to the "Make $42,958 today using this simple 1, 2, 3 formula" type of stuff.

          Anyway, Michael....GREAT posts!! Very informative. Thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge and experience. It is appreciated.
          Its not over till the fat lady sings I have a feeling this thread is gonna grow as people do and be around for a long time. It will see many many moons!
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        • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
          I noticed it also, but its the mindset that has been fostered here on the forum. Not saying its a bad or negative thing, just a fact.

          The reason why we are finding his post a complete gem is because it would be just as great on any business forum where the members are business owners or people who aren't exposed to the, "Make $34,091.01 in 30 days" stuff.

          Originally Posted by Vagabond 007 View Post

          You noticed that too. Funny how that works huh? Most people respond better to the "Make $42,958 today using this simple 1, 2, 3 formula" type of stuff.

          Anyway, Michael....GREAT posts!! Very informative. Thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge and experience. It is appreciated.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Man, if only people will listen, Michael Hiles is one of the most amazing teachers here!

    He is like in a whole other LEAGUE Period!

    This guy has got some of the most successful sites on the net... and yet is wayyy more humble about it than you would guess from his cynical exterior.

    There is ALOT behind this mans posts...

    Michael is one guy that there is more to than meets the eye. He is really really successful at what he does... like BIG TIME!

    Many really successful warriors will end up looking UP to him when the truth of what he is comes out... Genius!! He's very humble in comparison to his actual accomplishments, and he speaks ALOT of straight pure concentrated undiluted truth!

    Def has my ultimate respect as both a marketer and HUMAN!
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    • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
      I'll agree with you on that buddy!

      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      Man, if only people will listen, Michael Hiles is one of the most amazing teachers here!

      He is like in a whole other LEAGUE Period!

      This guy has got some of the most successful sites on the net... and yet is wayyy more humble about it than you would guess from his cynical exterior.

      There is ALOT behind this mans posts...

      Michael is one guy that there is more to than meets the eye. He is really really successful at what he does... like BIG TIME!

      Many really successful warriors will end up looking UP to him when the truth of what he is comes out... Genius!! He's very humble in comparison to his actual accomplishments, and he speaks ALOT of straight pure concentrated undiluted truth!

      Def has my ultimate respect as both a marketer and HUMAN!
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      • Profile picture of the author BrashImpact
        Michael,
        a much needed and well presented approach for warriors. This was hands down a fantastic Post. It should really allow warriors to understand the multiple dynamics of business and how important it is to be well rounded. Well rounded pipeline, well rounded in sales, well rounded in ROI and definately identifying wants needs and desires of potential clients.

        As for me, i cant say enough, You are hands down the most humble man i have had the pleasure to meet in any business arena. I value your words, thoughts and ideas...Most importantly i Value you as a Person above and beyond everything.

        Your mind is briliant and your heart true. Thanks again for taking the time to post up another Incredible Nugget in the WF. Warriors, take advantage of Michaels Knowledge, its powerful and Empowering.

        This one goes in that Thing ... we were talking about. Copy Paste!!!

        To your continued success Mr. Hiles
        Robert
        Signature

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    • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
      Originally Posted by Chloe Sloane View Post

      Michael I own an administrative services company. I promote my "offline" business via the web. Your message is consistent and reflects a lot of experience. I don't post on Warrior Forum much but I do read a lot.

      My observation is this forum is filled with people who are more interested in being quick buck artists and not serious about building a real business. I am not sure that your experience is really understood or valued. But rest assured that some of us are really taking notes and paying attention.
      Thank you Chloe. Yes there's a large contingency of people who are out for the fast bang. I also think there are a whole lot of really young people who aren't seasoned in business as a general theme. But not all. I've also encountered some really wonderful folks who actually "get it" on the Warrior Forum - some of which are posting in this topic, others who don't come around as much but are superstars.

      Originally Posted by blackstone View Post

      Michael, what you, Vagabond 007 and John Durham are sharing is real value.
      This is marketing.

      I notice that you and Vagabond's stuff doesn't get a ton of replies.
      I'm guessing it's because it's not as "cool" as selling SEO services or social media (just examples) or a lot of stuff.
      Probably because it's work and requires producing real measured results.

      I know this is an IM forum, primarily, and we tend to look at IM as a solution to all problems.
      Yeh, the funny thing is that SEO and social media IS real marketing, and rests in the marketing and selling food chain in the right places (almost all in the "Getting Attention" phase above - but there's a massive world that takes place beyond "Getting Attention". Understanding the whole process of marketing as it pertains to the function of a commercial business is a science unto itself. And ultimately, whether or not a person's focus is just SEO or social media.... actually selling SEO and social media to traditional business IS real work, and puts a person right back into that traditional marketing role.

      How ironic, huh?

      Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

      I agree with you Michael!

      At this point in my life I have the luxury of having pitched 1000's of people behind me.

      From high powered government officials (federal level), even the General of the Army for Egypt, (great guy), GSA, VA, small and large businesses, all they way down to the public school janitor.

      One thing that they all have in common is that they are people who all have wants, desires and needs.

      Our jobs are to pin those down within the frame work of how their company is structured and show them how what you have meets them all with a nice ROI to boot.

      Sometimes we have to address the wants, desires, and needs of several different people filling different roles within a company too reach the desired outcome. That can take more then one meeting in most cases but sometimes you can get a deal sewn up on the first meet.

      Sometimes we are addressing the roles that several different people fill when speaking to just one person, the small business owner who wears all those hats him/herself. We still have to address the same things, and if it happens that we fail in one area we may still loose the "deal".

      The ability that I have which enables me to close almost every one "I" want as a customer has come with many many years of learning how to find out quickly what each persons wants, desires, and needs are; and then showing them how what I have meets those in each case for each department of their business.

      There is no set scripting, there is no exact precise way to do it. Each person is an individual and will respond based on their experiences, and in some cases as you mentioned experiences with previous salespeople that have set them back.

      So in the end, I use ROI and meet the wants, desires and needs of the people who make the decision, or who contribute to making the decision to get the job done.
      Yep, everyone does have needs and wants, even in business. And the funny thing is the reverse case drives so many decisions in business purchasing... what people DON'T WANT.

      Namely... they don't want to get fired for making a bad decision. They don't want to lose money because they bet on the wrong pony when choosing a service provider. Etc...

      It is indeed a bit of an artform in uncovering those "hidden" desires, which are much deeper on the B2B side than in a direct, personal B2C sale. But the one idea that people can take away is that BUSINESSES WANT TO BUY. They NEED to buy! I mean... some companies have ENTIRE DEPARTMENTS DEDICATED TO PURCHASING!

      It's not magic. It's just learning to identify the company's decision process, and then pressing the right buttons with the right people involved WITHIN the framework of that decision process.


      Originally Posted by Nathan Alexander View Post

      I'm not going to lie. This is difficult for me as I know we're supposed to share, give back and not "hold in" when it comes to knowledge and helping others out.

      But that being said, I frankly don't want guys like Michael and Vagabond saying too much. Why? It's because they DO know what they're talking about.

      They "get" it because they do it. And frankly, I know, I know…there's enough work for all of us. But I'm selfish.

      (Fine, fine. We can share.)

      But the truth is the "real" money is in a combination of two things: 1) being a flexible, knowledgeable solutions provider while creating more, (sometimes) immediate measurable revenue (however that happens to be) for a company or business and 2) doing so for folks with the ability to pay whatever you wish.

      It does not take any more work to sell something for $20,000 than it does for $2000. And if you tell me otherwise, you're either charging too little or choosing the wrong clients.

      There are plenty of examples of the above. Period. (And I say that knowing it while still not living it myself.)

      But back to this discussion, I appreciate both of these guys' advice as well as the others who contribute here. Nobody has to do so, so it's privilege for us all.
      No there really is no more work involved in selling a $20,000 deal than a $2,000 one. Cost justification, ROI, etc... these all exist outside of the price tag.

      Nathan, there is so much opportunity. There's so many subset areas that a person could focus upon and never get out of within the marketing arena. We tend to get tunnel vision, and also think that we have more ability than we all really do to reach more people and service more deals than we could ever possibly manage. Our tendency as marketers is to want to think in terms of the broadest possible numbers in the market...

      "There are 3,000,000 companies that fit this profile who could benefit from my services..."

      ... when in reality, I have roughly 40 solid, decent-sized clients that generate 7 figures a year in steady gross revenue for me.

      Abundance my friend!!! That is indeed one aspect of the otherwise completely fruball manifestation self-help silliness that I actually DO agree with.



      Originally Posted by abrandt View Post

      Hi Michael:

      I just found your post which reflects some of the conversations you and I have previously had.

      In a previous life, I designed, presented and closed company CEO's, presidents and senior research scientists, etc: high-volt atmospheric ionic anti-contamination systems to multiple divisions of HP, Lockheed, Sperry Univac, Data General, etc. Most transactions took upwards of 6-months to close, so I can appreciate the tenor of your brief and concise treatise within the Offline Marketing Discussions section of WF.

      I appreciate your clear definitions and discussion regarding the pros and cons of approaching small vs. larger commercial markets.

      To prospect, close and deliver larger companies requires high-level skill sets in competence, organization, discipline, sophistication, communication and credibility... which for the most part, are a rare combination of skills that few have.

      It was enjoyable finding your thread.

      Positively,

      Alan
      Alan Brandt Consulting
      Hey Alan! Thanks for jumping in here. You should contribute more often! You've got a whole lot of stuff to add to the conversation yourself.

      This level of skill is indeed found fewer and further between. That's why I persist in trying to push the envelope of the conversation here at Warrior Forum - sometimes it's like pushing water uphill. But this is a place full of people who want to succeed at this stuff - and the only way they will ever get beyond the $200 hustle is to learn and master the rules of the game.

      Everyone posting in this topic has experience, and a lot to contribute to the discussion beyond the entry-level phase.


      Originally Posted by BrashImpact View Post

      Michael,
      a much needed and well presented approach for warriors. This was hands down a fantastic Post. It should really allow warriors to understand the multiple dynamics of business and how important it is to be well rounded. Well rounded pipeline, well rounded in sales, well rounded in ROI and definately identifying wants needs and desires of potential clients.

      As for me, i cant say enough, You are hands down the most humble man i have had the pleasure to meet in any business arena. I value your words, thoughts and ideas...Most importantly i Value you as a Person above and beyond everything.

      Your mind is briliant and your heart true. Thanks again for taking the time to post up another Incredible Nugget in the WF. Warriors, take advantage of Michaels Knowledge, its powerful and Empowering.

      This one goes in that Thing ... we were talking about. Copy Paste!!!

      To your continued success Mr. Hiles
      Robert

      Thank you Robert. I really appreciate your input, and I enjoyed the time we've spent talking. I hope that you make it a point to contribute your own experiences here as well. You also have a lot to offer.



      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      Man, if only people will listen, Michael Hiles is one of the most amazing teachers here!

      He is like in a whole other LEAGUE Period!

      This guy has got some of the most successful sites on the net... and yet is wayyy more humble about it than you would guess from his cynical exterior.

      There is ALOT behind this mans posts...

      Michael is one guy that there is more to than meets the eye. He is really really successful at what he does... like BIG TIME!

      Many really successful warriors will end up looking UP to him when the truth of what he is comes out... Genius!! He's very humble in comparison to his actual accomplishments, and he speaks ALOT of straight pure concentrated undiluted truth!

      Def has my ultimate respect as both a marketer and HUMAN!
      John, thank you for your kindest of words. We've spent a lot of time talking and I know that you also have a lot to offer yourself. Even though it might be at a different level or perspective, you're as earnest and passionate about business and marketing as I am, and that shows in your own contributions. We live and breathe this stuff. When I am not actually working, I am reading, learning, talking, or even just thinking about strategic marketing, selling and business. It's truly my passion.

      I have to say that it was your encouragement that pushed me towards contributing more at a deeper level here, so whatever acknowledgement that I receive for my effort can only be passed along to those who have pushed me to teach, even if nobody is listening.

      Clearly some people do "get it", and that is an incredibly encouraging thing.
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  • Profile picture of the author Nathan Alexander
    I'm not going to lie. This is difficult for me as I know we're supposed to share, give back and not "hold in" when it comes to knowledge and helping others out.

    But that being said, I frankly don't want guys like Michael and Vagabond saying too much. Why? It's because they DO know what they're talking about.

    They "get" it because they do it. And frankly, I know, I know…there's enough work for all of us. But I'm selfish.

    (Fine, fine. We can share.)

    But the truth is the "real" money is in a combination of two things: 1) being a flexible, knowledgeable solutions provider while creating more, (sometimes) immediate measurable revenue (however that happens to be) for a company or business and 2) doing so for folks with the ability to pay whatever you wish.

    It does not take any more work to sell something for $20,000 than it does for $2000. And if you tell me otherwise, you're either charging too little or choosing the wrong clients.

    There are plenty of examples of the above. Period. (And I say that knowing it while still not living it myself.)

    But back to this discussion, I appreciate both of these guys' advice as well as the others who contribute here. Nobody has to do so, so it's privilege for us all.
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    • Profile picture of the author MRomeo09
      Originally Posted by Nathan Alexander View Post

      It does not take any more work to sell something for $20,000 than it does for $2000. And if you tell me otherwise, you're either charging too little or choosing the wrong clients.

      There are plenty of examples of the above. Period. (And I say that knowing it while still not living it myself.)
      Bingo- someone finally got it. While not exactly right, it might take a little more work. I've found that whether the client paid me $500 or $50,000 it wasn't appreciably different the amount of work that took to get face to face.

      While I respect John greatly, I completely disagree with the premise of selling $500-800 websites. For the amount of effort required, you could be much more profitable selling $5k-10k services and I really don't think your closing ratio would be horribly affected by the higher prices. He and I have gone round and round on the subject.

      Mr Hiles as always is a voice of reason, and his posts are well appreciated. Good post.

      One other point I should make in how I disagree with most people on this board is that too often prospects are really spammed instead of marketed to.

      If you're sending a 1,000 postcards and hoping you get one client, you spammed.

      If you cold call a 100 prospects hoping to a get a client, you spammed.

      If you email 1,000 prospects hoping to get a client, you spammed.

      If you telemarketed to 1,000 prospects hoping to get a client, you spammed.

      If you sent postcards, long form letters, emailed, called, dropped in, now you're marketing.

      As Dan Kennedy says if you're only going to mail once, you might as well not bother mailing at all.

      I believe that too many people don't really CHOOSE their clients, they are like the guy who marries the first girl who says yes to him.

      I choose my clients. I decide who I want, and then I go after them, and after them until they finally say yes, or they say leave me alone.

      I can do that with full integrity because I know what I can do. My clients have seen 300-1,000 percent increases in their businesses. My clients have been featured in local news shows, in the paper and on national television shows like Dr Phil.

      So part of the process needs to start with choosing your clients. I personally like small business owners with multiple locations between 5-50. So that instead of selling once to get $1k a month, you can sell once and get $10-30k a month.

      And the next part of the process needs to be REALLY MARKETING to them until they say yes. I subscribe to Chet Holmes Dream 100. They are already my client even if they haven't sent me a single dime yet. If I have to contact them 20 times to get a face to face meeting I'm ok with that. Because I'd sure rather hear 20 no's from the same person who could possibly write me a check for $250k than bother with 20 no's from people not wanting a $500 website. I literally only quit when they beg me to leave them alone or they start sending me money.

      But I'm sure Mr Hiles already knows all of this. I'm sure of it.

      Marcos
      Signature
      We do not have to become heroes overnight. Just a step at a time, meeting each thing that comes up ... discovering we have the strength to stare it down. - Eleanor Roosevelt

      Your opinion of yourself becomes your reality. If you have all these doubts, then no one will believe in you and everything will go wrong. If you think the opposite, the opposite will happen. It’s that simple.-Curtis Jackson- 50 Cent
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  • Profile picture of the author abrandt
    Hi Michael:

    I just found your post which reflects some of the conversations you and I have previously had.

    In a previous life, I designed, presented and closed company CEO's, presidents and senior research scientists, etc: high-volt atmospheric ionic anti-contamination systems to multiple divisions of HP, Lockheed, Sperry Univac, Data General, etc. Most transactions took upwards of 6-months to close, so I can appreciate the tenor of your brief and concise treatise within the Offline Marketing Discussions section of WF.

    I appreciate your clear definitions and discussion regarding the pros and cons of approaching small vs. larger commercial markets.

    To prospect, close and deliver larger companies requires high-level skill sets in competence, organization, discipline, sophistication, communication and credibility... which for the most part, are a rare combination of skills that few have.

    It was enjoyable finding your thread.

    Positively,

    Alan
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  • Profile picture of the author Nathan Alexander
    Alan, I'm sure I speak for a lot of us when I say I'd love to hear your thoughts too. Thanks for sharing...

    Nathan
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    • Profile picture of the author abrandt
      Originally Posted by Nathan Alexander View Post

      Alan, I'm sure I speak for a lot of us when I say I'd love to hear your thoughts too. Thanks for sharing...
      Nathan
      Please see PM at your convenience.

      Alan
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  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    You bring up another strong point Marcos. Successful B2B selling of professional services relies upon serious targeting. Understanding your target profile, and going after them with a laser focus is paramount.

    I think my hit ratio is probably in the 90% range over the past 20 years for any large account that I target. That's because I know exactly what the story is, why it works, why I can help the company, exactly HOW I will help them, etc... I'm creating a client partnership - which is a completely different viewpoint than just trolling for the hustle.

    It's like the difference between the guys who cold call businesses slinging photocopier toner refills on a random basis vs. tracking a company in the news, knowing that they just bought a smaller company as a new division, knowing who the new division head is, knowing that your services solve a very specific problem, and creating an account entry strategy around that laser-targeted story.

    That being said, I don't necessarily DISAGREE with people who want to telemarket $500 or $800 website projects to smaller businesses. If you know what business you're in, and you're successful at it, who am I or anyone else to question or challenge the folks who are doing a couple deals a week? If you're comfortable doing that, then keep trucking!

    Everything has its place in the business food chain. By no means do I wish to DISCOURAGE anyone from playing at the small market level.

    I told a coaching student yesterday who was just starting out - START WHERE YOU'RE AT.

    You can't start climbing the ladder in the middle of the ladder.

    That student knows exactly where he wants to go with his business, and he realizes that he has to create a win... any win. He has to get a success story, because that story can then be used as a promotional reference point to go get the next story, then the next one.

    What differentiates this coaching client of mine is the fact that he's got a much bigger picture vision, and is working on building the bridge between where he's at (which is admittedly not very far down the road) and where he wants to be... which is a strategic-level marketing consultant pitching a comprehensive, model-driven approach to large corps at the C-level.

    Now it's a matter of simply putting together the plan and executing. He knows what he needs to learn and do to get there, which starts with getting his first deal doing what he knows - basic services. And he's going to do it for really cheap too - maybe even FREE in order to create that win. Once he has the win, even the small win, he can build the story.

    The history of B2B marketing of internet and web development services is interesting because in the very early 90's, when I first started out, the only companies who could actually afford a $100K or larger web dev initiative were very large ones.

    The only way web projects got sold at all were in the same fashion that large-scale marketing contracts or software development projects get pitched. There was no other way to be in the web business except to pitch large deals in the boardroom because it was seen as a very strategic decision.

    Then, as the technology became more popular, the volume of work allowed for a gradual reduction in prices as the middle to lower markets started waking up to the possibilities of web marketing. More business opportunties allowed for a greater volume of work. And the skills were more commonplace, which brought down the price in labor cost.

    As things progressed, and the technology gradually became accessible to more and more people, everyone with a fresh copy of Microsoft FrontPage started hanging out a shingle, calling themselves a web developer - complete with those snazzy FrontPage themes (that I still trip across every now and then!).

    When that happened, it was insane. The bottom literally fell out of the market for a while - and the bottom tier of small market business opportunity was overrun with all manner of well-meaning, but less than capable folks. Unfortunately a lot of those people made complete messes of a lot of small businesses.

    This really destroyed a lot of business owner's attitudes towards web - and I contend that's one of the factors that has left a gap in the small market to this day. The horror stories got around fast at the Chamber of Commerce meetings about the hucksters and the incompetents. Less knowledgable business owners just took a conservative view and slowed down the adoption.

    Now this has been a good thing in other ways because it HAS created a lot of new opportunity. The wave of social media, blogging, and internet marketing interest over the past few years has fueled this latter wave of gold rush for services opportunity in the SMB space. But instead of calling it web development, now it's "new media marketing" or "internet marketing" or "offline". Whatever. It's all the same stuff - using the web to sell stuff.

    The point is that there's plenty of opportunity at all levels of the market for internet marketers, web designers, creative services folks, media developers, copywriters, graphic artists, marketing consultants... lots of business services.

    You can be a big fish in a little pond and make money. You can be a little fish in a big pond and make money. The goal is to make money.

    My goal for 2011 is to really start helping service-related business owners move towards a bigger gameplan by selling more B2B solutions to bigger and bigger companies.
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  • Profile picture of the author mmastermetallica
    great post gonna read back over when i get more sleep =]
    reminds me of a good book, Go for No!
    it talks about not being afraid to go after the big client
    Signature
    you can sleep when your dead, carp diem!
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  • Profile picture of the author BUFFALOBT
    Excellent post! These are 2 distinct markets, with different approaches needed to be effective in either. I like to focus on the "little guy", because I feel that I can offer the most assistance.
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    • Profile picture of the author MRomeo09
      I come from the "Jay Abraham- Strategy of Preeminence" philosophy. It's been something I've instilled in my core for 20 years.

      I know you're familiar with it Mr. Hiles but for those who don't know. Jay Abraham's Strategy of Preeminence dictates that you ALWAYS put the client first. You will do anything in your power to help your client get ahead. It also dictates that you change your terminology your prospects aren't your prospects or customers, they are your clients. And when you really embrace them as your clients, you'll do anything you can do to help them reach their goals.

      Of course what that means is that I don't stop until I'm able to help them reach their goals. That's why they don't get to tell me no, I don't allow it. While I'm not against telemarketing or postcards or direct mail or anything per se. I'm against using one tool, hearing a no or no response at all and crossing them off my list.

      Funny thing is I did a small WSO to pay for a nice dinner in New Orleans, which it did(barely). And I had to tone down the rhetoric because people couldn't believe that I was getting a 90% appointment rate. Truth is, I've only had one client ask me to leave them alone, so I'm probably close to a 99% appointment rate. But, that's out of the realm of most people's thinking.


      Since I adhere to the Strategy Of Preeminence and putting my clients first that pretty much rules against me selling a $500 website. If I really have their best interests in mind, how can I simply sell them a comodity which is what a $500-1,000 website is. I can't find out what they need, what their customers want, what causes them to buy, how to appeal to their hot buttons, I can't find their best sources of traffic/leads/clients, etc. Am I not doing them a disservice if I don't allow them to buy the whole package from me that should run $1-3k a month? Is the $500 website going to be any more useful to them than a pack of business cards from Kinko's? Versus the complete internet strategy using everything I know to help them reach their goals?

      Isn't selling the $500-1,000 website about the same as the Front Page Jockey's did in the late 90's? How for $500 can you deliver what the business really NEEDS versus what they want(which is usually something attractive and ego-boosting for the owner).

      I very rarely am the first internet/seo/sem consultant the client has used. In fact almost all of my clients have horror stories. Most of their money goes down a black hole and they have no idea where it went, and they rarely see any results from it. I'm usually the first person who actually delivered what they said they would.

      And lastly I still believe it comes down to this simple truth. It's not that much harder to sell a $10k client than it is a $500. It's definitely not 20 times harder. Probably not even twice as hard. It's only in your head if you think it is.

      My goal in 2011 is to do more licensing within verticals. It's like printing money out of air.

      Marcos
      Signature
      We do not have to become heroes overnight. Just a step at a time, meeting each thing that comes up ... discovering we have the strength to stare it down. - Eleanor Roosevelt

      Your opinion of yourself becomes your reality. If you have all these doubts, then no one will believe in you and everything will go wrong. If you think the opposite, the opposite will happen. It’s that simple.-Curtis Jackson- 50 Cent
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      • Profile picture of the author blackstone
        Thanks for the explanation of Jay's Preeminence strategy.
        It was concise.
        Being concise is not one of Jay's strong points

        You're right. If it's all about the client, you will never go wrong
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    • Profile picture of the author myob
      I used to also just go for the little guy, mostly because it seemed easiest. That all changed a couple of years ago when I landed a franchisee for a well-known fast food corp. The guy had 14 other franchises, and he wanted everything tied in together. With his recommendation, I got other multi-franchise accounts, and then continued on to branch out into larger companies. What I found is that the big deals really are not that much harder to get than the little ones.
      Signature
      “If I have seen further than others, it is by standing upon the shoulders of giants.” – Isaac Newton
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      • Profile picture of the author MRomeo09
        Here's an explanation of the Strategy of Preeminence from the man himself.

        I personally have had this on my MP3 player for the last 8 years and listen to it at least once a month. On occasion I'll listen to it every single morning. It only takes 8 minutes, but is about the most important thing to the success of my businesses.


        P.s. I know there are adverts in it, they aren't mine however.
        Signature
        We do not have to become heroes overnight. Just a step at a time, meeting each thing that comes up ... discovering we have the strength to stare it down. - Eleanor Roosevelt

        Your opinion of yourself becomes your reality. If you have all these doubts, then no one will believe in you and everything will go wrong. If you think the opposite, the opposite will happen. It’s that simple.-Curtis Jackson- 50 Cent
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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgeO7
    What a great thread!

    Thanks to all the contributors.

    (Just call me soaking it up on the sidelines)

    George
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  • Profile picture of the author humbledmarket
    Banned
    Wow Thanks for being so generous and one of the true Warriors who focus on sharing information.! With the amount of time you put into your thread you could hav eeasily made an WSO of this information like many profiteers would have done and as you like saying: "Nothing wrong with that" but it's great to see someone sharing such profitable information free. Not really in the offline market but still found it fairly interesting.
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    • Profile picture of the author DiamondPed
      @ Michael,
      I've not much more to add (other than my bolding) to the quote below ...

      Originally Posted by humbledmarket View Post

      Wow Thanks for being so generous and one of the true Warriors who focus on sharing information.! With the amount of time you put into your thread you could hav eeasily made an WSO of this information like many profiteers would have done....
      I've also added thanks to individual posts on this thread as well, no need for loads of quotes



      Read this thread ..... absorb the advice / info. in it ..... & start taking action !!


      Onwards & Upwards

      PeterC
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  • Profile picture of the author Creativegirl
    Great thread and information. It's hard sometimes to focus on the bigger fish when so many little ones are so hungry. But, like it or not, the small guys are awakening to the hard cold fact that today you need online authority, not a presence. Thanks again for the good information, it will help me not to lowball the proposal I'm writing right now.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kirrybows
      I keep reading this subforum and all I ever see is you "old timers" like John and whoever else saying how it's all very feasible and you guys are pitching it to each other back and forth how easy it is to do it and how all us "newbies" should get on it.

      I get the sense that this is just one massive and well-planned pre-sale just like an old user "AP" was running.

      He was saying "Ah I should sell this here valuable info in a WSO..you newbies better listen up and take notes...naw I'm not going to make a WSO" And then what happened? He made a WSO, sold it for a lot of money and never delivered. Fooled a lot of honest people.

      If you guys are all so good at this and are making large incomes, why aren't you driving your porsches and sailing on your boats? Why is it that a good part of your day consists of typing up posts here telling newbies how you happen to be very good at this and that we should all take action?



      You can approach my "check" two ways. "Moderate" the post hoping not many people saw it, or think of a good response.
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      • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
        This is a Marketing forum so you should expect that at some level people who post may also have a vested interest in why they post what they do.

        A very easy way is to see if the poster has a link to a product offering here on the forum that directly fits with the content or theme of the topic or post. When you find that, take what they post with a grain of salt.

        There are people on this forum that do make 6 figures plus and even 7, they are not all evil and making post's with some elaborate scheme to trick newbies.

        Your remarks about nice cars and bla bla is just that BLA BLA.

        Is your favorite movie conspiracy theory?





        Originally Posted by Kirrybows View Post

        I keep reading this subforum and all I ever see is you "old timers" like John and whoever else saying how it's all very feasible and you guys are pitching it to each other back and forth how easy it is to do it and how all us "newbies" should get on it.

        I get the sense that this is just one massive and well-planned pre-sale just like an old user "AP" was running.

        He was saying "Ah I should sell this here valuable info in a WSO..you newbies better listen up and take notes...naw I'm not going to make a WSO" And then what happened? He made a WSO, sold it for a lot of money and never delivered. Fooled a lot of honest people.

        If you guys are all so good at this and are making large incomes, why aren't you driving your porsches and sailing on your boats? Why is it that a good part of your day consists of typing up posts here telling newbies how you happen to be very good at this and that we should all take action?



        You can approach my "check" two ways. "Moderate" the post hoping not many people saw it, or think of a good response.
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      • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
        Originally Posted by Kirrybows View Post

        I keep reading this subforum and all I ever see is you "old timers" like John and whoever else saying how it's all very feasible and you guys are pitching it to each other back and forth how easy it is to do it and how all us "newbies" should get on it.

        I get the sense that this is just one massive and well-planned pre-sale just like an old user "AP" was running.

        He was saying "Ah I should sell this here valuable info in a WSO..you newbies better listen up and take notes...naw I'm not going to make a WSO" And then what happened? He made a WSO, sold it for a lot of money and never delivered. Fooled a lot of honest people.

        If you guys are all so good at this and are making large incomes, why aren't you driving your porsches and sailing on your boats? Why is it that a good part of your day consists of typing up posts here telling newbies how you happen to be very good at this and that we should all take action?



        You can approach my "check" two ways. "Moderate" the post hoping not many people saw it, or think of a good response.
        I use my real identity. That means people can find me... starting with my linkedin profile.

        That's more than I can say for you there Kirrybows. You can bet your fair ass that I won't ever send money to anyone who doesn't use their real identity and can't be located for a product that doesn't exist yet. That sort of fundamental reasoning got overlooked by the unfortunate folks who got shafted by "AP".

        Never once have I ever said this sort of thing was easy. In fact, I am the one who consistently says otherwise. It's NOT easy. But it can be learned and it can be done. And I encourage those who want to try to actually step out and do it. In fact, I was recently admonished by a few members because they were "sick of my negativity" over my lambasting the typical get rich quick bullshchitt artistry that has spilled over into the world of marketing consulting. Forgive me for trying to keep scam artists from pulling the wool over small business owner's eyes by selling them a pile of dog crap because they don't know any better. I realize that does conflict with a lot of the prevailing philosophy on Warrior Forum.

        As for Porsche's, I can't think of a single business contemporary that owns one. In fact, my wealthiest, personal good friend is worth about $60 million in straight up cash. He drives a 2004 Ford Thunderbird - although he did recently tell me a story about losing a $5K chip in Vegas that he found months later after forgetting about it. I tend to go for things a little more practical. I actually even have a crappy old 1983 Chevy C10 to haul wood and stuff around here on the farm because I don't want to buy anything decent that's just going to get beat up.

        I can go lean up against my Ford Taurus and take a pic with a smug look on my face if it would make you feel better. The only boat I own is a kayak I bought on sale at Dicks Sporting Goods... $400. I do use it quite a lot in the warm months, so it's kind of scraped up. I did have a beat up aluminum canoe that I kept in one of the barns, but it was a mess, so I let my brother-in-law haul it to the scrap yard because he was out of work and trying to drum up some cash.

        Okay, I did run a WSO last year. It was free, I just wanted to test some stuff. It didn't work. This was the wrong market... ROFL

        Unless you own a $3 million or more annual company in the tech space that sells B2B solutions to other companies, you're not even really a candidate for my services. I'm trying to get rid of all my non-B2B clients. I'd love to talk to you if you're a Managed IT Services Provider, Software company, consulting services provider, Staff Aug provider, DBA services provider, etc...

        For the sake of pure transparency, I am still considering running something for the "offline" folks at some point and leave that option open for myself with no guilt or reservation. If that conflicts with your own agenda Kirrybows, well that's just too honkin' bad.

        At present though, I'm still straddling the fence, at times genuinely wanting to help people, but also realizing that this forum is a "mixed bag". Some folks keep asking me, but I keep running into people that I would rather first cut out my left nut than have any sort of business relationship with.

        Would you prefer it if I did charge for this kind of discussion?

        What do you think of this WSO title?

        "You TOO can be a practical, frugal business owner, who lives in a modest, debt-free home on a few acres and drives a 3 year old domestic sedan"
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        • Profile picture of the author blackstone
          Michael, why don't you say what you really mean without holding back?
          I guess I can't fault someone for being suspicious. But........

          All one has to do is search your posts. Or others here who give.

          And if you end up selling something, I'd be interested
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        • Profile picture of the author Kirrybows
          Originally Posted by Terry Gorry View Post

          This is one of the best, if not the best, posts I have read on the WF in a long, long time.

          Please don't give in to the camp who think that because they can
          1. build a Wordpress blog
          2. upload a video to YouTube
          3. build a Facebook page

          that they can set themselves up as "web consultants", "offline consultants" (take your pick) and offer anything of real value to real business owners in the real world.

          As an offline business owner since 1986 I must say that I enjoy reading some of the mindless crap that I read here daily..but only for entertainment purposes.

          It is easy to discern who actually knows their **** and who is migrating to "offline consulting" because they could not cut it online.

          And the first thing I look for when reading these posts is the signature link-when it links to a WSO that is going to set me back $7/$17/$27 to read about how the author is absolutely killing it offline I always ask the same question..
          "why is he wasting his time flogging $7 WSOs if he is making $10k a month?"

          You just have to love it

          Terry

          As you can note, I am not one such pretentious loser who talks about earning a 6 figure living, while having a $17 WSO in my signature. I do notice however that you're rocking some sweet backlinks to your confusingly worthless websites in your signature. I guess you're doing a test or something because you're not even selling anything there.

          I am a newbie.
          I came here to learn.
          I am learning a lot.

          But I can't help but notice that some of the older members here are providing way too much information, which just arms me as another competitor. They are also spending waay too much time here, given how valuable their time is judging from their costs.

          This is why I am pointing fingers and asking questions. Put yourself in my situation. Wouldn't you be puzzled at the inconsistency?
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          • Profile picture of the author Mike Grant
            Originally Posted by Kirrybows View Post

            As you can note, I am not one such pretentious loser who talks about earning a 6 figure living, while having a $17 WSO in my signature. I do notice however that you're rocking some sweet backlinks to your confusingly worthless websites in your signature. I guess you're doing a test or something because you're not even selling anything there.

            I am a newbie.
            I came here to learn.
            I am learning a lot.

            But I can't help but notice that some of the older members here are providing way too much information, which just arms me as another competitor. They are also spending waay too much time here, given how valuable their time is judging from their costs.

            This is why I am pointing fingers and asking questions. Put yourself in my situation. Wouldn't you be puzzled at the inconsistency?
            You first need to realize that one, few, or even many =/= all.

            You'll see there are some people that just truly enjoy helping others.

            Finally, if one is giving out consulting advice but doesn't have the amount of time to dedicate to helping others, then he shouldn't be a consultant. Leveraging and positioning are the very basics of entrepreneurialism one must grasp for scalability.

            You have to better pick and choose your battles, after doing your homework.
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            • Profile picture of the author Kirrybows
              I noticed "doing your homework" is a popular phrase here. In fact, it's so popular that you're using it in the wrong context where it just doesn't make sense.

              I don't notice a straight answer but I think I can infer that the general consensus is that the big talkers are just innocently helping us noobs out. So be it. I don't lose anything from that.
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              • Profile picture of the author Mike Grant
                Originally Posted by Kirrybows View Post

                I noticed "doing your homework" is a popular phrase here. In fact, it's so popular that you're using it in the wrong context where it just doesn't make sense.

                I don't notice a straight answer but I think I can infer that the general consensus is that the big talkers are just innocently helping us noobs out. So be it. I don't lose anything from that.
                It makes perfect sense.

                What you're failing to realize is that you're calling someone out questioning their motives when they've never put their motives in question. You need to remember you're the newbie attempting to call out and question others who have proven themselves valuable with the free information they share.

                Mike and I disagree on a lot of things, but he's never done anything to raise suspicion.
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                • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
                  Originally Posted by mgtarheels View Post

                  It makes perfect sense.

                  What you're failing to realize is that you're calling someone out questioning their motives when they've never put their motives in question. You need to remember you're the newbie attempting to call out and question others who have proven themselves valuable with the free information they share.

                  Mike and I disagree on a lot of things, but he's never done anything to raise suspicion.


                  Interesting how the complaints are 1) "big talkers" who, in his/her own opinion, spend too much time here, sharing too much free info; and 2) accusations of leading up to a launch of something (although the discussion is taking place on a marketing forum where it's commonplace and quite acceptable for people to sell information).

                  What are the odds that Kirrybows isn't here for any sort of real discussion, but likely attempting to troll for a conflict that will get this topic locked?
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          • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
            Originally Posted by Kirrybows View Post

            As you can note, I am not one such pretentious loser who talks about earning a 6 figure living, while having a $17 WSO in my signature. I do notice however that you're rocking some sweet backlinks to your confusingly worthless websites in your signature. I guess you're doing a test or something because you're not even selling anything there.

            I am a newbie.
            I came here to learn.
            I am learning a lot.

            But I can't help but notice that some of the older members here are providing way too much information, which just arms me as another competitor. They are also spending waay too much time here, given how valuable their time is judging from their costs.

            This is why I am pointing fingers and asking questions. Put yourself in my situation. Wouldn't you be puzzled at the inconsistency?
            In another topic, you balked at the notion that a business would pay $3K a month for services. Three grand a month wouldn't hire a competent administrative assistant, let alone a seasoned marketing exec. So clearly your perspective is one of incredible business inexperience if you can't fathom that a business would augment it's core skill set with contracted resources that it doesn't need 100% of the time.

            In my opinion, the real inconsistency is the paradox between someone calling themselves a newbie and flipping out over a low level employee salary vs. their delusional belief that they could possibly become my competition while having that kind of narrow view.

            So, why not start contributing something of value here instead of crap like trying to dictate how I spend my time? What I do, I do because I enjoy and I am good at it. For the most part, I can pick and choose what I want to do, and when I do it.

            Interesting how your complaint is "too much sharing" of solid information by seasoned folks. I sense that all is not what it seems here, and will be watching more closely.
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          • Profile picture of the author Jay Vikaz
            Michael,

            Thank you for your insights.

            You've given a very clear distinction between two B2B markets - the bigger boys and the mom & pop businesses (not official terminology... but work with me here).

            What drives them is different.

            The processes are different.

            The returns are different.

            As someone who has been involved in both markets (at different times) I learned that the mindset is different in both ...all the way from the clients to the service providers (Us?)

            Neither is right or wrong. Just different.

            This discussion certainly opens folks up to the possibilities of what is on the other side. It may not be for everybody. But, there are many who will thrive in that environment and for them this is certainly an eye opener.
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      • Profile picture of the author tanya7zhou
        Originally Posted by Kirrybows View Post

        I keep reading this subforum and all I ever see is you "old timers" like John and whoever else saying how it's all very feasible and you guys are pitching it to each other back and forth how easy it is to do it and how all us "newbies" should get on it.

        I get the sense that this is just one massive and well-planned pre-sale just like an old user "AP" was running.

        He was saying "Ah I should sell this here valuable info in a WSO..you newbies better listen up and take notes...naw I'm not going to make a WSO" And then what happened? He made a WSO, sold it for a lot of money and never delivered. Fooled a lot of honest people.

        If you guys are all so good at this and are making large incomes, why aren't you driving your porsches and sailing on your boats? Why is it that a good part of your day consists of typing up posts here telling newbies how you happen to be very good at this and that we should all take action?



        You can approach my "check" two ways. "Moderate" the post hoping not many people saw it, or think of a good response.
        If you have a problem with these guys and what they are saying, just stop coming to this forum.

        Just wanna say thank you to all of you guys for your contribution here. I am a consultant too and it is motivating to pick 2 or more pointers to continue building my business.

        Most of the staff here that other guys are sharing have been shared before by guys like Dan Kennedy, Jay Abraham, Chet Holmes, etc

        These principles never change and will always work. This forum doesn't consist of newbies who earn nothing, there are so many people here who are earning good money and they love to pour out their heart and share their methodologies, it's just human nature and it's good.

        Broke, busted and disgusted people have a problem in believing that someone can actually come to the forum and share invaluable information because they themselves can't do it. Maybe that's why they can't make it or haven't made it in life yet.

        Talking about AP, Yes he might have done a runner and bla bla bla. But as someone who has succeeded in offline consulting, I know that most of the staff AP shared on that free popular thread was good staff. if someone implemented what he was conveying on that thread, they would have made a lot of money to worry about him doing a runner. Even in business we also make a few losses.

        Some people say he was fake, he was copying Dan kennedy bla bla bla. It doesn't matter who he was copying it was still good stuff. He opened eyes of so many people and others like Dexx even began running their own forums because of what AP did.

        He shared great stuff like what MichaelHiles, and company are doing. why are you worried about the cars and boats they should have? That's none of your business really. Some people don't like that sort of staff.

        It's all about the content. learn from these guys, and create your own system of selling your consulting business...... you will make it. Stop criticizing, or looking for faults, find the time to get the information you need, learn and own that info and go make some money.

        If a thread is informative like this one, it's important not to spoil it. If you just want to start a fight, start your own thread. Stop contaminating good threads because of your own low self esteem and doubts. You will confuse other people who genuinely want to learn and make it in life.

        I am not trying to be rude but just to say, stop being an ass!

        So guys, keep going sharing more to help others.

        Signature

        It's not over until it is Over!

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      • Profile picture of the author alanborcic
        Originally Posted by Kirrybows View Post

        I keep reading this subforum and all I ever see is you "old timers" like John and whoever else saying how it's all very feasible and you guys are pitching it to each other back and forth how easy it is to do it and how all us "newbies" should get on it.

        I get the sense that this is just one massive and well-planned pre-sale just like an old user "AP" was running.

        He was saying "Ah I should sell this here valuable info in a WSO..you newbies better listen up and take notes...naw I'm not going to make a WSO" And then what happened? He made a WSO, sold it for a lot of money and never delivered. Fooled a lot of honest people.

        If you guys are all so good at this and are making large incomes, why aren't you driving your porsches and sailing on your boats? Why is it that a good part of your day consists of typing up posts here telling newbies how you happen to be very good at this and that we should all take action?



        You can approach my "check" two ways. "Moderate" the post hoping not many people saw it, or think of a good response.
        When people says something is impossible, that is true, for them.
        There is reason why Buffet and Gates of this world are giving away billions of their hard earned dollars. These people are on next level of evolution, where selfishness does not exist.

        On that level, penis extenders are not needed anymore (if you haven't seen Frank Kern's Core Influence, that is must).

        Micheal, Gene, John and Co here are truly marketing experts and believe it or not, they like helping people and sharing their knowledge. I am sure they share their money since they are on next level.

        AP shared extremely great and precious knowledge here, Michael and Gene agreed with him more than once in his post, since his teaching was correct. He ended up doing bad thing, only he knows why. Regardless, his posts are golden.

        Michael is marketing strategist, big corporation type of guy. I personally think he is too harsh sometimes, but if you take emotions out of it, his information are golden. He is on of the best on this forum.

        Tonny Robbins said you got what you focus on. If you focus on bad in people, on principle that everybody is out there to trick you, that will happen to you, since you will attract it. Focus on what you want, not what you don't want.

        Michael, thank you sir from the bottom of my heart
        Signature

        Get Life You Deserve
        Alan Borcic
        www.alanborcic.tv

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  • Profile picture of the author WD Mino
    Go Mikey Go

    Hey folks Michael Hiles is probably one of the foremost experts in this field I would be paying close attention not smart assing back dude knows his stuff and has the portfolio to back it

    Good to chat with ya Michael
    Look forward to seeing how things go for you this year
    be well my friend
    -Will
    Signature

    "As a man thinks in his heart so is he-Proverbs 23:7"
    Coming Soon http://graphicsdon.com

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    • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
      Originally Posted by WD Mino View Post

      Go Mikey Go

      Hey folks Michael Hiles is probably one of the foremost experts in this field I would be paying close attention not smart assing back dude knows his stuff and has the portfolio to back it

      Good to chat with ya Michael
      Look forward to seeing how things go for you this year
      be well my friend
      -Will

      lol... I am not anything remotely close to being a "foremost expert" Will, but from time to time, I do run around with a few and buy them drinks.

      It's simply a matter of having real business experience. There's a lot of folks who are real players, and can offer a lot of insight. Many of them do.

      Guys like Chris Brogan and Seth Godin post free gems every day to their blogs. From time to time, they also sell stuff. Brogan spent years promoting local IT and computer trade shows. Godin used to be a corporate jockey, a product manager for Spinnaker Software (and a damn good one... he was the first person to come up with the idea to do deals with publishing companies and create PC games around literature classics... Farenheit 451 was his first launch).

      If you're passionate about what you do, you aren't afraid to talk about it, and you're good at it, you'll find an audience in your market.

      That's an important lesson for the offline market too... if you're in the local market - you should be writing press releases and getting articles into your local business news, speaking at business networking groups and Chamber events, basically, finding a platform to talk about what you do and love as often as possible.

      {trying to bring this topic back to something that resembles productive discussion}
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  • Profile picture of the author WD Mino
    Hey Michael,

    Yeah one thing that seem to be coming from people who actually do make successes of their business is they understand the principle of helping others.
    Like you mention people like Chris and Seth,I think also folks like Chris ferrel and others contribute to society in much more than just an economy sense, They actually take their knowledge and invest in people which is what you are speaking of .

    To me though Michael you have a way of presenting things that many would try and I would be lost, but maybe that is just because of the way you do it, or it is the way I process. But to me you are a major authority man but I know what you are saying too.
    Humility is honorable but you are up there too you are not some wet behind the ears marketer and Dude you know your stuff.

    For me I am actually considering stepping into local business marketing seminars. I figure with what I know how to do I should be expanding my market reach instead of just the few niches online. That is due to things I learn from you Mike so If I actually get off my But and do it I will let you know how it goes I live in a small town and the surrounding towns have small businesses etc they need to know what potential the online market has for their own little businesses.

    Always a pleasure man
    be well
    -Will
    Signature

    "As a man thinks in his heart so is he-Proverbs 23:7"
    Coming Soon http://graphicsdon.com

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  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    Exactly right - not right or wrong.

    It's just different. There are many distinctions between the marketing strategies needed for a medium or large company vs. a tiny one.

    In fact, I think there's a lot of disagreements in these offline discussions that are based on different "worldviews" between individuals, and the kinds of marketing they pursue for the kinds of businesses. When someone starts posting away about "XYZ is the way to do things...", it can quickly collide with the perspectives of others who are operating at a different level.

    I think this is where a few folks have run into the brick wall with me on Warrior Forum, because I come from a very different perspective and approach. I come from a world wherein if the average sales professional isn't generating a million per year in new business sales, they're kicked to the curb. One of my really good business friends and associates works for a fairly small tech company right now as a business development exec in the application development services space. He's personally responsible for generating an annual quota of $3 million dollars. But the perspective of the Warrior Forum Offline business folks view $500K or $1mm total in gross sales as something completely out of their league. Why... UNPOSSIBLE even!

    Getting there requires a radical shift in perspective, and an equally radical change in approach. That shift in perspective and the new approach is what I am all about.

    Indeed, small business marketing at the owner-operator level CAN be pursued on a very similar basis as that of consumer marketing. But even as Frank Kern tried and discovered with his plumber test (and probably with his now shuttered local marketing company Locella or whatever it was called), trying to press emotional buttons via a hot sales letter isn't how most business owners react - even small business owners.

    Of course you CAN sell this way, but that puts us back to the "finding a needle in a haystack approach" of "dialing for dollars". That's where you play the sheer numbers game, looking for the one prospect that's ready to BUY RIGHT NOW. It does work at the very lowest, smallest levels of business - and it can be an effective strategy for a consultant to generate business if they are under time constraints and have no other strategy.

    But as soon as you start involving any size of business that requires the input of multiple stakeholders (even employees), you're not going to get the hot button emotional press. Business owners know better than to ram rod things down their valued employee's throats - and experienced business owners will talk to their staff when it involves any decision that affects their daily operational duties.

    This is where the wham bam thank you ma'am approach fizzles like Pop Rocks candy in a glass of Pepsi, and having a structured marketing and sales approach to manage the longer term relationship-building process is essential.

    My contention is that even with mom & pops, there's never any harm in getting into the groove of the more professional, structured marketing and selling approach.

    In fact... and this will probably lift some eyebrows... having that kind of professional approach could even be viewed as a competitive distinction that sets you apart from the rest of the dialing for dollars guys in the small market arena.
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  • Profile picture of the author shikari
    company needs, setting expectations, and clearly defining the rules
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  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    Well now that it seems the trend is for people to start discovering that they can actually go out and land bigger deals.

    Maybe a few people have been listening after all.
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  • I've been doing this for years Michael as I am fairly sure you have. There are lots of ways to get involved in larger companies if you look for the opportunities - it doesn't always have to be the basics.

    Having said that, we accidentally postcard marketed a national chain of plumbers about Google Places, and actually got a call back. That was a bit of a surprise, I can tell you..
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  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    Indeed! Defining the solutions for a larger deal is a different sort of situation - because the needs are different. However, the needs are far more diverse, which presents far more opportunity to play at many levels far beyond the narrow scope of just building backlinks, etc...
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    • Originally Posted by MichaelHiles View Post

      Indeed! Defining the solutions for a larger deal is a different sort of situation - because the needs are different. However, the needs are far more diverse, which presents far more opportunity to play at many levels far beyond the narrow scope of just building backlinks, etc...

      That's a much better way to phrase it - diverse - that is so true. Often I've found that people feel they can never work with a larger company because all they require doing for them are the sort of things that only other big corporates will be taken on for!

      For instance, I know of one guy, who works for a very large corporation, who just looks at Google Alerts all day. A whole bunch of them. When he spots something interesting - he lets them know. That makes him £1000 a month.

      And I know that from the company - I don't know the guy - I saw his invoices and what he did. All from his bedroom at home, and he was 62 - and very well off.
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      • Profile picture of the author ericthered
        Hi Michael H, I for one have definitely been listening. Reading this thread and especially your original post has helped me make a tiny but fundamental shift in how I approach the consulting biz.

        So when can we see the photos with the hundred dollar bills flying through the air and you leaning against your old T'Bird - or better yet the kayak?

        Can't thank you enough - and the other folks who know their sh*t, you know who you are!

        Eric Niergarth
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  • Profile picture of the author clubrrr
    great post. Thank you!
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