Synergy - Could we become THE MONSTER?

Phil, I can assure you that SEO and internet marketing in general has a terrible reputation in the non-IM business community. SEO hawkers are considered relentless pests with the repetitious harranguing... every cold caller thinks they're the first guy that day? Try hour.

By repositioning your business so that you're a sales improvement specialist, and focus on the strategy, not the tactics, you immediately shift the perception of what you do in the market.

Well having been active on this community for a while now, it seems that the largest segment of visitors fall into the following categories:

1. get rich quick seekers who want to make a lot of money but don't want to have to actually work to do it

2. techie types who might be good at a certain aspect of web or SEO processes, but have no earthly idea about the bigger picture of marketing as a strategic system within an operating business, and aren't necessarily interested in learning or doing more than the tech stuff. We're talking about an offline forum where people have actually posted stuff like, "how can i be successful in offline marketing and not actually have to go out and talk to people?" Ummm... yeah.

3. scammers looking to exploit the previous two categories by pretending to be marketing experts, but really just having an expertise in slick talk and fooling those less informed than themselves


There is a very significant minority who are actually working to build a real, sustainable business around more than a ghetto street hustle.

I've talked to enough legit WSO promoters who have followed the success rates of their buyers to understand why the less than 1% rule is very real.

On the outset, it might appear that the WF has a plethora of business-minded folks who want more than what I have outlined. But as I have observed and conversed with other legit players, some of which have abandoned this place, it's the scammy make money online biz op stuff that people really want - which is why the forum continues to be saturated with scammers and circus clowns trying to pass themselves off as real marketing experts.

I find myself caught in the continued paradox of believing that there's some kernel of real opportunity somewhere in all of this vs. being sucked into the muck of scammy bizop.

I can't answer whether or not it's a waste of time for you.

Some people have asked why am I here if I am so openly critical and think it's so scammy?

Well I spent most of my time on WF keeping tabs on the latest internet marketing trends from that technical side. I test stuff, and then what appears to work I will scrub the affiliate marketing scammy stench out of it and repackage it for corporate/business approval and use.

That's the answer.

I have met a few really good folks that have become solid business associates. Occasionally there are some solid marketing conversations and good debates about best practices that are engaging.

But after I realized that trying to change the current away from scamishness simply isn't going to happen, even in being helpful it's a very quixotic effort to assist people who ask lots of questions, but aren't really doing anything with the answers in the end.

So I decided to move most of my own discussion off to a different venue.

I've shifted my attitude towards WF and will further stop pushing the current in a different direction. I am going to start running WSOs like everyone else, and just go with the flow.

My own experience is that people look way too long for that silver-bullet and search and buy and search and buy and never end up creating any value in the market they want to be in.

I would not place the participants on this forum into 3 simple categories (get rich seekers, techies, and scammers).

There are complex issues and complex paths people follow to get where they are. Yeah, everyone is trying to make money in their own way - some succeed and some don't in creating value. And creating lasting sustainable, value is the only way to true success.

My experience is that people simply miss the mark more often than they hit it because they don't understand how to create outstanding value for their customers. Instead of creating exceptional value they fall into the trap of short-term, quick-cash thinking that is neither sustainable as a business model nor helpful to their market. They spin their wheels and in the end have to go on to the next bizopp thing... that gets tired after a while and many people stop searching and stop trying to be entrepreneurial.

I think what you're seeing Michael is that most people lack the discipline needed to build a real, sustainable business and that is the key to getting off the bizopp merry-go-round. So they spin their wheels and never follow-through with anything. That can be fixed, if someone really wants to fix it.

Phil I think you're on the right track and I support your idea. Standardization, a code of ethics and industry self-regulation will help everyone who markets IM and SEO services locally.

Hi Phil, the sentiment is admirable, but it's a black hole for time (your time). What will happen is that legislation will be introduced to curb the excesses. Unfortunately it will also mean huge amounts of red tape for everyone who operates legitimately and honestly.

It happens in every industry. It's a double edged sword really, it means we can currently run with ideas very quickly as we don't have to jump through hoops to get things done, but it also allows the cowboys to proliferate. I think all we can do is set an example and have a clear conscience.

Tony

I agree with everything in this thread. Our industry is saturated with fly-by-night amateurs. I think a trade association might be a good way to go.

Let me introduce you to... http://www.the-dma.org/


And it's corporate responsibility site... http://www.dmaresponsibility.org/

Better...even crazy idea, here: Start a "company"! Who's up for this? We all have our own companies...if your selling to small business owners, you should, anyway. Why not pool our resources to sell and perform everywhere! I think I'll start a new thread with this concept.

I think that's the interest you were looking for from your opening post, AdBankPro.

Are you prepared to take on an endeavor like that?

Yes to most comments above. The industry suffers from a lack of regulation from web design to internet marketing. Part of the problem is so much is gray, not black and white. And everyone is in the game trying to get a piece of the pie. For some, like newspaper, media and advertising publishers it's to stay relevant and in business.

A number of people have come up with their own credibility tricks, groups and seals which does and doesn't help overall. The unsuspecting business owner can't tell the difference until it's too late.

Look forward to seeing your new thread.

I see this thread has been inactive for sometime now, however it has great sentiment.

Phil: I would be very intersted in collaborating in a "Mastermind" group, to cover topics as discussed in the thread. Im based in the UK and have a number of local offline clients whom I consult.

Cannot PM just yet (Not enough posts), but PM me your email address if interested and I will contact you.

Thanks