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Unread 21st Apr 2011, 11:20 AM   #601
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Why go after these type of businesses if you keep getting the same results.

Plus every man and his dog who is putting out a course are saying to target these industries. Don't follow the crowd.

There are thousands of businesses other than spas, restaurants, real estate and saloons.

We have just got a client who puts on trade shows and they order a different mobile websites for each different show they put on and this can be 4 or 5 a month. We are starting to build mobile sites for next years program.

Try some of these.

Mechanics, sign writers, plumbers, sheds, garages, patios, builders, home handymen or women, furniture, architects, clubs and social clubs like soccer and football, makeup, local theater groups, small franchises, car or flight charter, recreational equipments, tours, personal development, trainers, accountants, cleaners in all different fields, painters, seniors, reconditioning, renovators, restorers, green and organic business, solar panels, wind generators, printers, children's clothing, children's site, food production, food wholesale, cafe, events and trade shows, elderly care, massage, therapist, film and video editing, mediators, translators, writers, poets, bands, graphics designers, couriers, drivers, ditch diggers, bakers, pet sitting, house sitters, catering services, duplication services, software suppliers, paint ball, camps, restaraunt suppliers, saloon suppliers, spa suppliers, boutique businesses, computer repairs in fact any repairers, ink jet and laser re fillers, landscapers, rentals, trainers, yoga, martial arts, music, dance sudios etc,

These are just a few of the people we target and don't get negative responses from.

You will find a gold mine where you do one for a particular industry then you seem to get 4 or 5 more because they are all watching each other.

Make a good site then go for referrals.

Quentin

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Unread 21st Apr 2011, 12:35 PM   #602
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great information thanks for all
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Unread 21st Apr 2011, 12:55 PM   #603
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Originally Posted by soharox View Post

great information thanks for all
Fantastic you have gotten good information here...since I started this thread I have had several people implement the info here and done well for themselves...plus since implementing mobile design its now scaled out to SMS marketing which if you do the numbers there mind blowing the long term residual you can get is crazy.

ScottH

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Unread 22nd Apr 2011, 05:58 AM   #604
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Thanks guys.

I now have a smart phone myself so will be able to go to networking events and meet business owners in person to show them what I'm talking about.

I'll expand the niches I'm targeting.
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Unread 22nd Apr 2011, 07:37 AM   #605
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So, I get that scott is selling mobile websites in his local area and setting up appointments...but what if you are not selling in your area and cannot meet up with business owners? How can you tell them more about how mobile websites can help their business, showing them the difference between their regular site and the mockup home page and transitioning them to a close? How do other people here do it?
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Unread 22nd Apr 2011, 05:06 PM   #606
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how wide do you design your websites? im a designer and ive tried researching more into designing templates for mobile sites but havent had any luck.

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Unread 22nd Apr 2011, 05:51 PM   #607
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Originally Posted by allegrity View Post

So, I get that scott is selling mobile websites in his local area and setting up appointments...but what if you are not selling in your area and cannot meet up with business owners? How can you tell them more about how mobile websites can help their business, showing them the difference between their regular site and the mockup home page and transitioning them to a close? How do other people here do it?
I would cold call the client and tell them about the services you offer.
If the client is interested ask for their email address and send them a mock up of their website.

Give them the options to view the site.

- Mobi URL so they can check it out on their smart phone.
- Send them to an iphone emulator.
- QR Code ( with instructions on how to use then)

Follow up with phone call.
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Unread 22nd Apr 2011, 09:25 PM   #608
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Originally Posted by kvnkane View Post

how wide do you design your websites? im a designer and ive tried researching more into designing templates for mobile sites but havent had any luck.
Most mobile websites will reduce to a minimum width of 320 pixels. They also need to be coded in a way that they will stretch to fit phones that have wider screens than that.

There are in fact a ton of mobile web best practices you should look over before you start coding a mobile website. You can find the official W3C standards here:

http://www.w3.org/TR/mobile-bp/

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Unread 22nd Apr 2011, 10:29 PM   #609
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I had great luck yesterday. Went to a nice restaurant in town for lunch yesterday with my husband. Took ten minutes before we left to make a mock up for the restaurant, and after we finished lunch, showed one of the managers their mobile website - and walked out of there with a sale for three of their franchises. I am not strong on cold calling, so this made it much easier - started by saying how great the lunch was and went from there!
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Unread 22nd Apr 2011, 10:57 PM   #610
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Thats some great news and a franchise making it even more sweet.

Quentin

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Unread 23rd Apr 2011, 02:29 AM   #611
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YouTube - 50 Mobile Youth Facts 2011 by mobileYouth.org
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Unread 23rd Apr 2011, 03:18 AM   #612
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Originally Posted by WillR View Post

Most mobile websites will reduce to a minimum width of 320 pixels. They also need to be coded in a way that they will stretch to fit phones that have wider screens than that.

There are in fact a ton of mobile web best practices you should look over before you start coding a mobile website. You can find the official W3C standards here:

Mobile Web Best Practices 1.0
thanks willR, for some reason i didnt even think of checking out w3.

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Unread 23rd Apr 2011, 08:23 AM   #613
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You should also take a look at this which expands on the w3c standards and was developed by dotmobi

dotMobi Mobile Web Developer's Guide | mobiForge

HTH

Jay
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Unread 23rd Apr 2011, 10:14 AM   #614
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Thats quite a good report Jay

I like what it says:

"User-centered design is a popular and smart way to approach interaction design. Understanding the needs of users helps humanize the process and keeps your project in check with their goals. Users know best and will cast their vote by giving their attention to your site – or not."

Do users care if the mobile website is compliant. Not really they just want it to work and provide the information they are looking for.

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Unread 23rd Apr 2011, 09:13 PM   #615
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Originally Posted by Quentin View Post

Thats quite a good report Jay

I like what it says:

"User-centered design is a popular and smart way to approach interaction design. Understanding the needs of users helps humanize the process and keeps your project in check with their goals. Users know best and will cast their vote by giving their attention to your site – or not."

Do users care if the mobile website is compliant. Not really they just want it to work and provide the information they are looking for.

Quentin
The mobile web standards are there for a reason and yes, if you are following the standards correctly then your customers won't even be aware of them. It is when your website does NOT follow the standards that your customers become aware because the site may not function correctly on their mobile device.

It is also important to follow the mobile web standards as much as possible as they are the standards developers keep in mind when they are updating browsers, designing new mobile browsers, etc. That's what the standards are there for.

Yes, they can be ignored, however the simple fact is a website that does not follow as many of the web standards as possible will not work as well on as many devices and mobile web browsers as one that does follow the standards.

A mobile website that follows the standards can still look nice, be easy to use, and provide the customer with all the information they need.

I guess it depends what you want to get out of your site. I want a nice clean looking, easy to use, fast loading template that looks the same on as many mobile devices as possible.

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Unread 23rd Apr 2011, 09:18 PM   #616
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Originally Posted by ukescuba View Post

You should also take a look at this which expands on the w3c standards and was developed by dotmobi

dotMobi Mobile Web Developer's Guide | mobiForge

HTH

Jay
Just bear in mind that guide was posted 4 years ago.

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Unread 24th Apr 2011, 09:21 AM   #617
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Originally Posted by WillR View Post

Just bear in mind that guide was posted 4 years ago.
true you should look at both though as the dotmobi goes over and beyond in some areas of W3 - actually the dotmobi website in general has a lot more up to date guides and information covering subjects specifically for smartphones too - its a good resource if you wanting to get more involved with mobile web development and design.

really though both should be updated to acknowledge smartphone browsers - mobile browser technology has advanced a lot, sticking to either of those guides in some areas is actually limiting what you can and cant do with a mobile site, if i where to be 100% compliant with some of things i do i wouldn't be able to publish or deploy mobile web apps... despite being non compliant my web apps still work perfectly and render uniformly across the major smart phone browsers they are intended for.
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Unread 24th Apr 2011, 10:24 AM   #618
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Standards are good but I think if you compare one of my sites with one of your compliant ones you will not see much difference as we have done the tests.

As for compatibility we cover all phones so thats pretty good.

Quentin

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Unread 24th Apr 2011, 10:37 AM   #619
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Originally Posted by ukescuba View Post

if i where to be 100% compliant with some of things i do i wouldn't be able to publish or deploy mobile web apps... despite being non compliant my web apps still work perfectly and render uniformly across the major smart phone browsers they are intended for.
Originally Posted by Quentin View Post

Standards are good but I think if you compare one of my sites with one of your compliant ones you will not see much difference as we have done the tests.

As for compatibility we cover all phones so thats pretty good.

Quentin
Yeah, I agree that 100% compliancy is a little out of reach, even for my sites, simply because some of those validators don't take into account such things as if using a script on your page, as long as your page still works without the script then there is no problem.

Also sometimes you will need to use images that are larger in file size than the web standards recommend but more often than not it's impossible to show a detailed map with an image less than 20kb - and so on and so on.

But a lot of the mobile standards are very easy to employ and should be things you are doing when making a mobile site anyway. I'm not saying you have to follow the standards step by step however I am saying they shouldn't be ignored and we shouldn't be giving people the impression that they are not important.

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Unread 24th Apr 2011, 11:45 AM   #620
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I guess the thing is that nearly none of the desktop websites have ever validated so why such a push for mobile sites.

It seems that purists get really concerned but in the end most sites work fine and chasing validating can take quite a lot of work.

We have done quite extensive research on the major makes of phones and all our sites work fine.

We have asked this before Will about showing us one of your sites so we can see what you are talking about but it seems you are willing to imply our sites are crap while yours are just fantastic.

Why not put up for once and let us see your work.

quentin

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Unread 24th Apr 2011, 12:29 PM   #621
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What is a mobile site ???
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Unread 24th Apr 2011, 12:42 PM   #622
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Originally Posted by Quentin View Post

We have asked this before Will about showing us one of your sites so we can see what you are talking about but it seems you are willing to imply our sites are crap while yours are just fantastic.

Why not put up for once and let us see your work.

quentin
You musta read my mind :p
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Unread 24th Apr 2011, 01:01 PM   #623
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What is mobile sites for marketing
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Unread 24th Apr 2011, 01:26 PM   #624
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hi guys - i figured this was a good time as any to showcase some of my mobile sites that i have created...

this is one of the older mobile sites i created that's still live lmpoker.mobi

i built it using joomla about 4yrs ago, its one of the first to utilize the flexibility of joomla as a dynamic cms and port it over to a mobile device, everything can be updated via joomla by the client

its actually featured on the mobiReady - dotMobi compliance & mobileOK checker site there is a screenshot of it in the slideshow header, as it was amongst one of the first sites to get a full 5/5 rating when it was designed specifically for feature phones - back then the iphone was just a twinkle in steve jobs' eye! lol

this site oakridgebellows.com was developed specifically for smartphones ie android, iphone, blackberry

it gives you an idea what i do when designing specifically for smartphone layouts - it also has video and gallery and the mobile detection option to redirect

if you look at the mobile version of oakridge bellows in a regular browser it will most likely not render properly and look weird as its not meant for that.

hopefully others will share their mobile sites - willr?

hth

jay
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Unread 24th Apr 2011, 02:05 PM   #625
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Originally Posted by ukescuba View Post

hi guys - i figured this was a good time as any to showcase some of my mobile sites that i have created...

this is one of the older mobile sites i created that's still live lmpoker.mobi

i built it using joomla about 4yrs ago, its one of the first to utilize the flexibility of joomla as a dynamic cms and port it over to a mobile device, everything can be updated via joomla by the client

its actually featured on the mobiReady - dotMobi compliance & mobileOK checker site there is a screenshot of it in the slideshow header, as it was amongst one of the first sites to get a full 5/5 rating when it was designed specifically for feature phones - back then the iphone was just a twinkle in steve jobs' eye! lol

this site oakridgebellows.com was developed specifically for smartphones ie android, iphone, blackberry

it gives you an idea what i do when designing specifically for smartphone layouts - it also has video and gallery and the mobile detection option to redirect

if you look at the mobile version of oakridge bellows in a regular browser it will most likely not render properly and look weird as its not meant for that.

hopefully others will share their mobile sites - willr?

hth

jay
Nice work Jay...here is a one page mock I am doing for a client...Glucalite.com

I like using table below the header for my links to pages.

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Unread 24th Apr 2011, 02:25 PM   #626
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hi scott,

just pulled up the site on my android took liberty to shorten url for you

Glucalite Call To Order 1-888-994-5822

You probably know this already but some of your wording is corrupt and showing weird characters at end of some the words - ie GlucALiteâ„¢

i think once you have your product images aligned you should be pretty streamlined - right now its causing me to scroll left and right

what are you using for testing? also is this using Quentins mobile script?

cheers

jay

PS hope everyone is having a good easter!
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Unread 24th Apr 2011, 04:10 PM   #627
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Originally Posted by ukescuba View Post

hi scott,

just pulled up the site on my android took liberty to shorten url for you

Glucalite Call To Order 1-888-994-5822

You probably know this already but some of your wording is corrupt and showing weird characters at end of some the words - ie GlucALiteâ„¢

i think once you have your product images aligned you should be pretty streamlined - right now its causing me to scroll left and right

what are you using for testing? also is this using Quentins mobile script?

cheers

jay

PS hope everyone is having a good easter!
Hi Jay,

Yea that character is a trademark "tm" I forgot to remove it. Yea it works fine on my IPhone. I am using Quentins script.

Based in Costa Rica Living my life on my terms a expat lifestyle and traveling the world at will. Time Freedom is True Freedom!
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Unread 24th Apr 2011, 05:15 PM   #628
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Originally Posted by Quentin View Post

Why go after these type of businesses if you keep getting the same results.

Plus every man and his dog who is putting out a course are saying to target these industries. Don't follow the crowd.

There are thousands of businesses other than spas, restaurants, real estate and saloons.

We have just got a client who puts on trade shows and they order a different mobile websites for each different show they put on and this can be 4 or 5 a month. We are starting to build mobile sites for next years program.

Try some of these.

Mechanics, sign writers, plumbers, sheds, garages, patios, builders, home handymen or women, furniture, architects, clubs and social clubs like soccer and football, makeup, local theater groups, small franchises, car or flight charter, recreational equipments, tours, personal development, trainers, accountants, cleaners in all different fields, painters, seniors, reconditioning, renovators, restorers, green and organic business, solar panels, wind generators, printers, children's clothing, children's site, food production, food wholesale, cafe, events and trade shows, elderly care, massage, therapist, film and video editing, mediators, translators, writers, poets, bands, graphics designers, couriers, drivers, ditch diggers, bakers, pet sitting, house sitters, catering services, duplication services, software suppliers, paint ball, camps, restaraunt suppliers, saloon suppliers, spa suppliers, boutique businesses, computer repairs in fact any repairers, ink jet and laser re fillers, landscapers, rentals, trainers, yoga, martial arts, music, dance sudios etc,

These are just a few of the people we target and don't get negative responses from.

You will find a gold mine where you do one for a particular industry then you seem to get 4 or 5 more because they are all watching each other.

Make a good site then go for referrals.

Quentin
Hey Quentin,

I have an idea.

Create a wso selling those templates as shown on your list... i'll be the first one to buy your wso.

Just an idea.

Juan
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Unread 24th Apr 2011, 05:20 PM   #629
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Originally Posted by scotth View Post

Hi Jay,

Yea that character is a trademark "tm" I forgot to remove it. Yea it works fine on my IPhone. I am using Quentins script.
I see you don't use tables, am I correct?

One question is using CSS tables better than using HTML tables or are they the same but configured differently?
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Unread 24th Apr 2011, 05:27 PM   #630
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Hey Scott

You have not removed the sizes for the larger graphics on the bottom. I have gone through and redone it for you and email if you want the file.

Nice looking and boots up fine on my android Wildfire.

Iphone mobile simulator emulator

Quentin

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Unread 24th Apr 2011, 05:36 PM   #631
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Wow just read this thread from start to finish! I've been looking to get into local Mobile and the information in this thread has been both inspiring and thoroughly educational.

Thanks for everyone who contributed but a special shoutout to Scott, Quentin & WillR you guys are the best! You reduced my learning curve by days if not weeks.

Can't wait to get started!
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Unread 24th Apr 2011, 06:04 PM   #632
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Just a quick update on what I have been doing with Quentin's script, nothing fancy but I do have appointments and have built two of my sites as a mobile ready sites.

A small learning curve on Quentin's script and method. My first stab at it took about 5 hours. Quentin was very supportive and timely of my questions. My second stab took an hour to build the actual site. I took his template and instructions,modified the template.

The site that took an hour,
blog.charmasterusa.com

This is my site and is NOT a shameless plug but rather showing what I did. Enter the url from the laptop and you get the full blown site, enter the url in your mobile and you get the mobile site.

I'm holding my first one back because I'll probably do it over, ha ha.

The one listed looks good and runs quite well. I included a way to draw the latest post from the WordPress site. Pretty slick. It's some php code that a blind boy could copy and paste and make work, if necessary I am willing to share it and the resource of where I found it.

Thanks ScottH and Quentin. good luck to the rest of you.
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Unread 24th Apr 2011, 07:55 PM   #633
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Re: Mobile Website Design big business in our local market!
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Originally Posted by jpeguero View Post

Create a wso selling those templates as shown on your list... i'll be the first one to buy your wso.
He already does offer his templates in his mobile marketing course you can pick up in his signature.

Originally Posted by ukescuba View Post

this is one of the older mobile sites i created that's still live lmpoker.mobi

it gives you an idea what i do when designing specifically for smartphone layouts - it also has video and gallery and the mobile detection option to redirect

if you look at the mobile version of oakridge bellows in a regular browser it will most likely not render properly and look weird as its not meant for that.

hopefully others will share their mobile sites - willr?
That example site you gave is actually not very well built for touch screen smart phones etc as all the links are far too close together and too small. One thing you need to keep in mind when designing the sites is to keep all links nice and big and lots of space between them so people can easily click on the links they want to click on. With that site people with larger fingers would have a very hard time trying to click on specific links.

Originally Posted by Quentin View Post

We have asked this before Will about showing us one of your sites so we can see what you are talking about but it seems you are willing to imply our sites are crap while yours are just fantastic.
I never said your sites were crap all I did was point out things that are not very mobile friendly about them - there's a big difference. An example would be the site listed above by ukescuba. Most of you would agree and say wow, what a great mobile site, it looks fine on all phones. But in terms of user-friendliness it is not a good mobile site at all for the reason I mentioned.

I've seen quite a bit of incorrect advice about mobile website design in this thread and other threads/forums. It seems people don't seem to take into account all the reasons WHY a mobile website is needed in the first place and it leads to poorly designed and user-unfriendly mobile sites. A mobile site is not simply a small website that fits on screens of various widths. There are lost of other things you need to consider when designing and putting together the site.

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Unread 24th Apr 2011, 09:25 PM   #634
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@willr which site are you talking about with regards to spacing? the lmpoker site? i said it wasnt for smartphone and was built 4 years ago in fact its actual navigation was if i recall doubled up to use access keys on your mobile device - it was never meant for touchscreen as at the time they where not even available.

my quote you gave in your post has parts missing and looks misleading the way its been presented... the quote you gave about me building the site for smartphones was in reference to the oakridge site but your misquote makes it look like i designed the 4yr old lmpoker site for the smartphone which it clearly not the case if you read my full post. I am thinking you have misinterpreted my original explanation...

if you are talking about mis-spacings for the oakridge site what device are you using as its specification is virtually the same as the iphone/itouch GUI with regards to height/width etc of the IOS interface - if its too close so is all of apples user interface? We figured if there specs are good enough for apple they are good enough for us...

so to clarify

lmpoker.mobi is a site that was built 4yrs ago and was never meant for smartphones since they didnt exist back then

oakridgebellows.com - is specifically designed for the iphone/android and specifically detects those devices when you try and open it in your iphone/android browser

as you can see there is a big difference in the design approach in the past 4yrs between the two sites - the oakridge site more than addresses the pointers that willr was making
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Unread 24th Apr 2011, 09:44 PM   #635
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Originally Posted by ukescuba View Post

@willr which site are you talking about with regards to spacing? the lmpoker site? i said it wasnt for smartphone and was built 4 years ago infact its actual navigation was if i recall doubled up to use accesskeys on your mobile device - it was never meant for touchscreen as at the time they where not available.
I was talking about the impoker site. My mistake. I saw you said it was still featured on the mobiReady mobileOK checker so I just assumed you meant they were using it as an example of a well designed mobile site. Yes, those are the types of sites that were fine for mobiles before all the smart phones arrived.

In regards to the oakridgebellows.com mobile site, it's very similar to the type of mobile sites I use and looks nice. I think I've seen this exact template offered elsewhere. However there are a few problems I noticed.

I notice your images page uses all javascript - does that page still function properly for users with javascript disabled?

I also ran your page through the web page speed report and found out it is nearly 70kb in size and has 33 requests to the server just to load the page! That's far too big for a mobile website. It means the page is going to take longer and cost more for people to download and view. The mobile standards recommend pages stay under 20kb per page. When using a logo or map image that can be difficult and even I go over that limit sometimes, but your CSS file is 25kb which is just far too large for a mobile site. Your CSS file is bigger than the whole page should be.

You can still have a site that looks nice but is much smaller in size. It's all about how the site is coded and put together. At the end of the day the main concern is the loading time of the pages. If it takes too long to load then no one is ever going to see your pretty design anyway. I think you need to try and get rid of all those css images that are killing your page load times by using a simpler design. One of the biggest rules for mobile websites is to keep image use to an absolute minimum.

You should also run your page through http://validator.w3.org/ as there are a couple of bits of your code that are being used but are not actually supported by the document type you are using. That should be rectified.

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Unread 24th Apr 2011, 10:01 PM   #636
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loads just fine on AT&T 3G network here in the US which is what the majority of iphones are on and i have had zero complaints from anyone else using any of our sites

perhaps you have slower networks? also you are dealing with latency as well.. But I'll take another look and fine tune it

the main purpose of the site is for business users who are less bothered about bandwidth and cost.. you also have to remember a lot of users also use wireless too... in this instance i dont personally see 70kb being an issue 700kb then perhaps yes... also remember in this instance especially when there are technical videos of 10mb+ on there lol

the javascript on the gallery i dont see as a major issue - show me a person who has javascript disabled on their smartphone... Or even knows how to disable it for that matter lol in most cases they wouldnt ever get to any mobile site let alone the gallery as a lot of people rely on javascript redirects to detect the mobile browser in the first place, if it was disabled it wouldn't redirect to the mobile site.... the gallery uses finger swipe motions so natually it does need javascript but actually i need a fall back plan to say if javascript isnt enabled to enable it - thanks for that

but its cool i am always open for feedback its the only way you can improve your products

for anyone out there who doesnt have a droid/iphone i am attaching a snap shot so you can see what we are talking about...



since we have being celebrating the birth of my baby girl with family and a couple of bottles of moet - i will wait till tomorrow and see what we can do to compress the site more

Cheers willr

Jay

Ps

The layout isn't exactly a template it's a very customized version of iwebkit right now I have a version that works with joomla and have recently integrated it with community builder and docman with some cool results
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Unread 24th Apr 2011, 10:17 PM   #637
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Originally Posted by ukescuba View Post

loads just fine on AT&T 3G network here in the US which is what the majority of iphones are on and i have had zero complaints from anyone else using any of our sites

perhaps you have slower networks? also you are dealing with latency as well..

the main purpose of the site is for business users who are less bothered about bandwidth... you also have to remember a lot of users also use wireless too... in this instance i dont personally see 70kb being an issue 700kb then perhaps yes... also remember in this instance especially when there are technical videos of 10mb+ on there lol

the javascript on the gallery i dont see as an - show me a person who has javascript disabled on their smartphone... in most cases they wouldnt ever get to any mobile site let alone the gallery as a lot of people rely on javascript redirects, if it was disabled it wouldn't redirect.... the gallery uses finger swipe motions so natually it does need javascript but actually i need a fall back plan to say if javascript isnt enabled to enable it - thanks for that

but its cool i am always open for feedback its the only way you can improve your products

for anyone out there who doesnt have a droid/iphone i am attaching a snap shot so you can see what we are talking about...

since we have being celebrating the birth of my baby girl with family and a couple of bottles of moet - i will wait till tomorrow and see what we can do to compress the site more
Don't get me wrong, I think the site looks great, but I do think it could be reduced in size by just making some simple changes that wouldn't detract from the design too much.

To say it loads fine for you and you haven't heard of any complaints isn't the issue here. We should always be trying to optimize our sites to get them loading as fast as possible, especially for mobile sites.

On wifi it loads ok for me but as soon as I'm on regular 3G it takes a while. Once you've loaded it once it is always going to load faster for you because you have the css and css images stored in your cache. But for first time visitors I feel it is going to be a little too slow. Better than a normal website, yes, but still not as fast as it could be for a mobile website.

As for the javascript image galley, I'm not saying don't have it. I also use javascript on my sites for things such as google analytics and even the redirect code as you say, but for things like the redirect code I also make sure I have a message that displays to those people who do not have javascript enabled.

Since I am selling these sites to businesses I want to give them a site that not only looks good and works well today, but will still look good and work well in a couple of years time. I guess that is why I try so hard to follow the mobile standards and make the sites as good as they can be the first time around. This gives the sites the best possible chance of working on as many future devices and mobile web browsers as possible.

BTW, congrats on the birth! That's great news. Sort of puts all this mobile web standards into perspective :-)

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Unread 24th Apr 2011, 10:23 PM   #638
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The biggest mistake that many people make when developing mobile sites:

Viewing the mobile sites using on-screen emulators only, rather than trying them out on actual devices. Believe me, there can be a very big difference, and unless you're actually testing them on real devices, your site may not be functioning the way you want it to. There are plenty of links and buttons that look perfectly fine on your big desktop or laptop screen that just don't work very well on a real, live mobile device.

Just sharing a little bit of my experience.

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Unread 24th Apr 2011, 10:26 PM   #639
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Cheers will and yeah it does lol will look forward to seeing the template - that a wso?

Just curious is anyone else doing dynamic mobile sites ie using php/mysql or mobile web apps even? Or just static HTML ?

At SCK exactly if you try and view the oak ridge site in ff or ie it looks terrible lol as they can't handle css3 or render gradient CSS backgrounds like the mainstream smartphone browsers

Even feature phone browsers like open wave also handle images and tables differently some not at all but we are talking oooolllddd old browsers there lol

Checkout keynote MIT for a good free emulator I use that mobileone iPhone emulator, more for speed than anything, but also android, blackberry, iPhone 3GS and itouch4 to test things on to specially for final testing
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Unread 24th Apr 2011, 10:36 PM   #640
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Originally Posted by ukescuba View Post

Just curious is anyone else doing dynamic mobile sites ie using php/mysql or mobile web apps even? Or just static HTML?
Almost every one of our sites we develop are built on CF, even if they're designed to be static. We're developing apps now as well, but most of our clients are looking for mobile SITES rather than smartphone apps.

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Unread 24th Apr 2011, 10:40 PM   #641
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Originally Posted by Steven Carl Kelly View Post

The biggest mistake that many people make when developing mobile sites:

Viewing the mobile sites using on-screen emulators only, rather than trying them out on actual devices. Believe me, there can be a very big difference, and unless you're actually testing them on real devices, your site may not be functioning the way you want it to. There are plenty of links and buttons that look perfectly fine on your big desktop or laptop screen that just don't work very well on a real, live mobile device.
Very true. Or people not even using online emulators but online simulators that basically just iframe the page under an image of an iphone. As you say, nothing compares to the real thing.

I will always, at the very least, test mine on the iphone, a couple of different blackberries I have, and the ipad. You can never be sure how things will look on a device until you use the ACTUAL device.

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Unread 24th Apr 2011, 10:40 PM   #642
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Originally Posted by Steven Carl Kelly View Post

We're developing apps now as well, but most of our clients are looking for mobile SITES rather than smartphone apps.
prolly cos mob sites are 3/4 the price, app devs are thieves.
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Unread 24th Apr 2011, 11:06 PM   #643
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Am actually on an iPad right now - have been going backwards and forwards about designing for iPad... So far I'm not 100% convinced it's necessary if the main site is well designed and doesn't use flash, I was toying around with the side bar popping up and changing position/visibility similar to gmail, newsrack, etc but for the amount of effort unless it is a web app specifically for the iPad or other larger footprint tablets am not sure it's worth pursuing...

I guess will see as the tablet market battles it out

On the subject of apps most apps need not actually be an app at all, saying that I haven't tried it yet but you can use things like phonegap especially the more recent incarnation to convert your mobile site/web app into an app if you really have too
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Unread 24th Apr 2011, 11:10 PM   #644
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This is my favorite mobile site. The link buttons are in the middle. So navigation is easy. It also uses ajax and javascript to open up the "read more" sections.

I am considering getting rid of the script part even though it scored 85 on the W3C validator.

But it is a nice looking site and seems to work well.
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Unread 24th Apr 2011, 11:16 PM   #645
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Originally Posted by TWalker View Post

This is my favorite mobile site. The link buttons are in the middle. So navigation is easy. It also uses ajax and javascript to open up the "read more" sections.

I am considering getting rid of the script part even though it scored 85 on the W3C validator.

But it is a nice looking site and seems to work well.
The problem with sites like those are all the content for the website is loaded on that first page, it's just hidden until you click to 'read more' at which point that content is revealed. This means when someone visits just the homepage they are in fact having to load the whole sites content, even though it is all hidden.

On a mobile site each page should be on a separate url to keep page sizes down to an absolute minimum.

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Unread 24th Apr 2011, 11:35 PM   #646
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@twalker thanks for sharing - that looks very neat , is it like one long page I've seen it done like that before - and the menus slide up and down to reveal content? Basically Ajax or jquery sliding divs and toggling visibility... You can also use anchors for a similar effect

There really is so many different ways to put mobile sites together

I do like the slide effects you can do but I personally had problems trying to integrate that feature with joomla, am actually toying with the idea of doing a custom flat file based cms mobile site wondering if that would improve overall performance

If it does load everything on first visit to the site the rest of the user experience should be pretty fast though, would suck if there where a ton of images though..
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Unread 24th Apr 2011, 11:43 PM   #647
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Originally Posted by WillR View Post

The problem with sites like those are all the content for the website is loaded on that first page, it's just hidden until you click to 'read more' at which point that content is revealed. This means when someone visits just the homepage they are in fact having to load the whole sites content, even though it is all hidden.

On a mobile site each page should be on a separate url to keep page sizes down to an absolute minimum.

Actually...the advantage is that short info displays immediately while longer content is loading in the background. Very smart idea for mobile sites. It saves space and load times.

Therefore rather than going to a different page each time content is preloaded and slides open.

Useful for larger amounts of information as well.

This of course assumes the browser has the capability to use the scripts. I've only tested on my android but would welcome an Iphone or Blackberry test if someone has one.

This one has a form on the contact page, I'll try and get some more screenshots up later.
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Unread 24th Apr 2011, 11:55 PM   #648
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Originally Posted by TWalker View Post

Actually...the advantage is that short info displays immediately while longer content is loading in the background. Very smart idea for mobile sites. It saves space and load times.

Therefore rather than going to a different page each time content is preloaded and slides open.

Useful for larger amounts of information as well.

This of course assumes the browser has the capability to use the scripts. I've only tested on my android but would welcome an Iphone or Blackberry test if someone has one.

This one has a form on the contact page, I'll try and get some more screenshots up later.
Bear in mind it's not all JUST about the load time. It is also the cost to the end-user. Based on research there are still a lot of people who are very wary about how much information they are downloading from a website and will back out of a website if it's too large because of the cost involved. Mobile internet is still very expensive to a lot of people.

I'd much rather have a site with smaller pages where the user only has to visit and download the page or pages that have only the information they require, not the whole kitchen sink.

If you are planning on using any images or image galleries on your site then all those images are going to load, albeit in the background, for every visitor who comes to that home page. This really is not an ideal setup and it will definitely slow things down.

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Unread 25th Apr 2011, 12:09 AM   #649
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How much are you guys paying?

I pay $45/month for 4Gb + tethering to three other devices includes my itouch, ipad and laptop most days, but have yet to go over even 2gb in past 12 months that's with at&t my bill is around $150 for two phones

I know other providers are cheaper I think sprint is unlimited everything for like $60 which is pretty good

Not sure of costs outside the states
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Unread 25th Apr 2011, 12:18 AM   #650
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I just got my new Acer Iconia A500 to test mobile sites but I would not offer mobile sites for tablets as the resolution is just fine for a normal sites.

In fact I can see this forum fine so no need for a mobile version. I can watch the tutorial for my membership etc and everything that you would view on a desktop looks just fine on the Tablet.

Why didn't I get an Ipad?

Storage I like to keep stuff separate so like to have the ability to change the micro SD which I store different things on rather than using up onboard storage which is 32 gig but with SD I can have unlimited storage.

Flash I want to be able to watch camtasia videos and lots of other flash stuff people send me.

Updates and features I don't want to have to buy a new unit everytime they update features.

Development I want to be able to develop my own stuff of which some I don't want to go to the general marketplace and Android allows this.

I know the Apple purists will have something to say but I am committed now to Android with mobile and tablet and it seems millions of other people think the same way.


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