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Unread 23rd Mar 2011, 10:45 AM   #151
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Re: Mobile Ready Websites big business in our local market!
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Love how Simple your Script is Quentin. Best one I have seen out there!

Scott, I really like how you did your mobile site, very clean and professional. How did you get the flash to work? (if you don't mind me asking).
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Unread 23rd Mar 2011, 11:44 AM   #152
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Originally Posted by Luvfoxy7 View Post

Love how Simple your Script is Quentin. Best one I have seen out there!

Scott, I really like how you did your mobile site, very clean and professional. How did you get the flash to work? (if you don't mind me asking).
I am not sure which site you saw...I do not use flash on mobile phones.

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Unread 23rd Mar 2011, 11:54 AM   #153
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Hmmm.... Didn't youdoom m.tyleralberti(dot) com or was I reading the wrong post lol.
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Unread 23rd Mar 2011, 11:57 AM   #154
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Or maybe it's not flash. Well whatever it is it looks really good with the rotating images.
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Unread 23rd Mar 2011, 11:59 AM   #155
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Wow Scott. How could I have missed this. Quite a thread you have going here. You deserve it too! Payin it forward man!

I have to say guys and gals that scott has the most amazing attitude, right from the beginning he was not only set out to succeed but also be a light to those around him and carve a way forward.

Many props to you Scott. You are a good man.
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Unread 23rd Mar 2011, 12:17 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

Wow Scott. How could I have missed this. Quite a thread you have going here. You deserve it too! Payin it forward man!

I have to say guys and gals that scott has the most amazing attitude, right from the beginning he was not only set out to succeed but also be a light to those around him and carve a way forward.

Many props to you Scott. You are a good man.
Thanks John, Not to sound to cheesy...it all changed for me when I got involved on your forum...and took action even though I was intimidated to make cold calls..now I am addicted to it...it has been without doubt the fastest way for me to increase my income very quickly!

ScottH

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Unread 23rd Mar 2011, 12:23 PM   #157
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I just appreciate the fact that since you started, your success has been the success of everyone around you as you have not only shared but encouraged others with your success, you were one of those guys who made this look easy, and you just relaxed your way into it...so people around you felt less tense about trying too as they observed!

I think a major difference is that it takes time for some peoples mental road blocks to get moved out of the way... but you seem like you just decided to not come with any from the beginning and just "did it" and enjoyed the process. Instead of being afraid of it, you embraced the experience and looked at each obstacle objectively, and just went merrily back on your way saying "Okay, see you guys after my call session, I still gotta get one more sale today...".

Truly a breath of fresh air at the forum, where you see people worrying over every little thing...

You are an inspiration man.

EDIT:

Scott, I just noticed your sig... you are doing that for us and not even making any money?

I just made you an honorary gold member. Money cant buy that kind of community devotion.
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Unread 23rd Mar 2011, 02:36 PM   #158
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Originally Posted by scotth View Post

I am having success with my mobile design business to my local market. There is so much business in this niche...Thanks to the The Telemarketing Forum I have been able to get some strong momentum in this market by calling local business owners and sharing the value to them why they need and should have a mobile ready website...getting to meet with them has been at least for me easy...and once I walk in after they know the value for them having a mobile website and show them my one page mock-up of their mobile website they are sold.

I just wanted to briefly share a niche that is very easy to start up and getting positive response from business owners.

ScottH
VEry neat idea... the time has come.... for mobile mrktg to take over...
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Unread 23rd Mar 2011, 05:04 PM   #159
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Hi Scotth,
Besides the fact that a business appeared on a site such as groupon or living social, do you have additional criteria that you consider before selecting a company to call on?
Thanks
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Unread 23rd Mar 2011, 05:13 PM   #160
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Originally Posted by tyrabelle View Post

Hi Scotth,
Besides the fact that a business appeared on a site such as groupon or living social, do you have additional criteria that you consider before selecting a company to call on?
Thanks
Every business with a website needs a mobile website...eventually.

Right now I would go after places you search on your mobile;
-locksmiths
-restaurants/bars (over 3,000 in this town so I'll probably just stick with them)
-pizzerias
-dentists

Just look in the Google Keyword Tool and go to advanced settings and hit the drop down for mobile and start typing industries in. I thought locksmiths would be the most popular for obvious reasons, but I was wrong...SUSHI!! At least in Vegas that is the most searched for mobile term that I have found.

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Unread 23rd Mar 2011, 05:29 PM   #161
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Thanks so much ADukes81
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Unread 23rd Mar 2011, 06:59 PM   #162
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An excellent article posted on Mashable earlier today

Mobile By the Numbers

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Unread 23rd Mar 2011, 08:10 PM   #163
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Hi Guys,

I'm a 15+ yr web-developer - I can put mobile sites together in no time at all. If anyone is great at sales and wants to maybe work together, I'd love to hear from you! There is Serious Money involved for sure. It's just a matter of reaching out to those customers and getting them to say "Do it up man!" But if you're positive and informational - it's money in the bank!
Drop me a line! Let's talk!

My e-mail is Vanfenix1 at gmail.com

Thanks!
VanFenix
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Unread 23rd Mar 2011, 08:32 PM   #164
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Originally Posted by tyrabelle View Post

Hi Scotth,
Besides the fact that a business appeared on a site such as groupon or living social, do you have additional criteria that you consider before selecting a company to call on?
Thanks
Yea make sure they dont have mobile ready site already...other than that nope...I pick up the phone and talk to biz owners until I have set 2-3 10 min meetings.

There is no criteria...if they want their clients to have a positive experience while looking at their site on a smartphone...and if they care about their business their going buy the mobile version.

ScottH

Based in Costa Rica Living my life on my terms a expat lifestyle and traveling the world at will. Time Freedom is True Freedom!
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Unread 23rd Mar 2011, 10:19 PM   #165
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Thanks so much Scott and ADukes. I truly appreciate your insight and support. I purchased Quentin's WSO earlier today and started the training. I even made two phone calls to restaurant owners using the Groupon idea but both were out...but that's okay I will get right on it tomorrow.
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Unread 23rd Mar 2011, 10:25 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by tyrabelle View Post

Thanks so much Scott and ADukes. I truly appreciate your insight and support. I purchased Quentin's WSO earlier today and started the training. I even made two phone calls to restaurant owners using the Groupon idea but both were out...but that's okay I will get right on it tomorrow.
Tyrabelle,

Fantastic your taking action...you will see success!

Based in Costa Rica Living my life on my terms a expat lifestyle and traveling the world at will. Time Freedom is True Freedom!
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Unread 23rd Mar 2011, 11:05 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by tyrabelle View Post

Thanks so much Scott and ADukes. I truly appreciate your insight and support. I purchased Quentin's WSO earlier today and started the training. I even made two phone calls to restaurant owners using the Groupon idea but both were out...but that's okay I will get right on it tomorrow.
Your ahead of me!

I bought Quentin's course about a month ago and have yet to make a call. Tomorrow is MY day!

I did have my friend make me up a nice flier though.

Want to race to the first sale, Tyrabelle?

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Unread 23rd Mar 2011, 11:20 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by scotth View Post

Hi Jay,

I take a invoice with me made out to the business owner..If I dont get the sale first time around I leave them with the invoice which has all the info on what they are getting and I have business owners call me back from the invoice ready to move forward..its just filling that pipeline full of 10 min meetings...next thing you know you have plenty of business.

Once I get some of the small talk out of the way and have his or her full attention I explain the value of having a mobile ready site and why this will bring new business to to them..then I pull out iphone and first show them their site which does not look good on a smart phone then show my one page mock up of their site they are taken back.
Hi Scott,
I have another question...What forms of payment do you currently accept? Paypal? Checks?

Thanks,

~Tyra
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Unread 23rd Mar 2011, 11:44 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by tyrabelle View Post

Hi Scott,
I have another question...What forms of payment do you currently accept? Paypal? Checks?

Thanks,

~Tyra
I can accept PayPal if need be...but so far the business owners have written me checks..I ask for half up front other half on delivery. I use invoices from freshbooks.com.

Based in Costa Rica Living my life on my terms a expat lifestyle and traveling the world at will. Time Freedom is True Freedom!
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Unread 24th Mar 2011, 12:16 AM   #170
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The job of Mobile design in local market is very nice and easy.Thanks for the information of this job.

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Unread 24th Mar 2011, 02:02 AM   #171
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Although there are currently a few 'obsticles' for the niche marketers who want to take advantage of 'mobile' in terms of keeping the whole experience mobile it's an absolutely huge opportunity for those of us who grab the mobile marketing bull by the horns and run with it...
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Unread 24th Mar 2011, 06:14 AM   #172
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Re: Mobile Ready Websites big business in our local market!
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Hi Quentin..

I'm based in the UK. Would I be able to use your script here too?

..Ronica
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Unread 24th Mar 2011, 07:52 AM   #173
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Yes Quentin script works anywhere..

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Unread 24th Mar 2011, 09:08 AM   #174
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Thanks ScottH, that will definite compliment the website service I want to start.
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Unread 24th Mar 2011, 11:25 AM   #175
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Originally Posted by scotth View Post

Tyrabelle,

Fantastic your taking action...you will see success!
Thanks so much Scott and I receive your words of encouragement. I am very excited about this new venture and I plan to crush it.
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Unread 24th Mar 2011, 11:31 AM   #176
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Originally Posted by ADukes81 View Post

Your ahead of me!

I bought Quentin's course about a month ago and have yet to make a call. Tomorrow is MY day!

I did have my friend make me up a nice flier though.

Want to race to the first sale, Tyrabelle?
You're on ADukes. I figure this "race"will keep me motivated. I am not a sore loser but I hate losing (LOL). I am curious though...is your flyer part of your marketing strategy?
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Unread 24th Mar 2011, 11:51 AM   #177
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Originally Posted by tyrabelle View Post

You're on ADukes. I figure this "race"will keep me motivated. I am not a sore loser but I hate losing (LOL). I am curious though...is your flyer part of your marketing strategy?
Well, I plan to call today and maybe hand out fliers tomorrow. PM me your email and I'll send you the flier my friend (a fellow Warrior) did.

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Unread 24th Mar 2011, 11:54 AM   #178
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ADukes, can I check that too? I will race ya to get first client..

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Unread 24th Mar 2011, 12:09 PM   #179
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I tried attaching it here, but it's too big (THAT'S WHAT SHE SAID!)

Email me at adam AT amdwebservices.com

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Unread 24th Mar 2011, 12:24 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by ADukes81 View Post

Well, I plan to call today and maybe hand out fliers tomorrow. PM me your email and I'll send you the flier my friend (a fellow Warrior) did.
Hi ADukes,
I do not have enough posts to send PM's but I did send you an email.

Thanks again
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Unread 24th Mar 2011, 12:24 PM   #181
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A little food for thought. I was told by a mobile website company that Google is in the process of separating mobile from traditional sites when doing a search on a smart phone. So any business without a mobile friendly site will not show up when doing a mobile search. May or may not be true.
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Unread 24th Mar 2011, 09:14 PM   #182
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Can I get the flyer too? Thanks.

I can PM you or send you my email address.

Sam
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Unread 24th Mar 2011, 10:02 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by scotth View Post

This is my exact approach...you need to get the leads from Living Social or any flash-sale-site....I make 10 phone calls 2 meetings consistently.

I am finding some very receptive business owners who use Gilt City, Groupon, Bloomspot, Living Social...my successful pitch for getting meetings and interested business owners.

"Hi my name is Scott I am a local business owner, I saw your offer on Gilt City today, but noticed you don't have a mobile website. I'm interested in sharing with you how a mobile website could enhance promotions like these..."

Opens the door for further conversation..I then proceed to tell the biz owner.."I will create a Home page of your current site for you that is mobile ready all I ask is for a 10 minute meeting to share the value of having a mobile ready site."
Hi Scott,
I made some calls today (4 to be exact) and each person that I spoke with asked me to email my information to them. I attempted to use your script but I found myself skipping around the subject matter and I feel that I came across as a confused bumbling idiot. I honestly would have wanted to get off the phone with myself if I were on the receiving end (LOL). I am okay with that for right now because I am still in training mode. I was wondering if you had other suggestions on how I could go about approaching potential clients.
Thanks so much
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Unread 24th Mar 2011, 10:51 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by tyrabelle View Post

Hi Scott,
I made some calls today (4 to be exact) and each person that I spoke with asked me to email my information to them. I attempted to use your script but I found myself skipping around the subject matter and I feel that I came across as a confused bumbling idiot. I honestly would have wanted to get off the phone with myself if I were on the receiving end (LOL). I am okay with that for right now because I am still in training mode. I was wondering if you had other suggestions on how I could go about approaching potential clients.
Thanks so much
Hi,

First good for you for picking up the phone 4 times and taking action..I applaud you!!

Now I can tell you if you continue to take action by calling, you will get better at what your saying...your start to get some success..what I mean is a biz. owner will say yes on a 10 min meeting...confidence will rise...you be bolder...then when you go out and meet a biz owner for 10 min to show them their site and the one you designed...biz owner wants to move forward...then nothing will stop you...b/c once you get 1 you can 100!

Another way is the section in Quentins website on how he has used email successfully, go check it out...

email route works just takes a little longer...I have not tried Quentins method but looks pretty good...

let me give you a tip if you go the email route, I have used these two real simple tips successfully in all of my email campaigns....when sending out a email to a business owner in the subject line always use "Re:Business owners name"huge open rate when done this way..reason they think its a reply to one of their emails...so they open it...no business owner has never expressed to me being put off from it...the second one is I put this invisible code in the email body..so when they open the email I get notified by email its been open...It will give me the heads up...I call them right away important you call them...that has turn into business using it.

the site I use for the invisible code is and its free...spypig.com NOT A AFFILIATE LINK

Hope this helps,

ScottH

Based in Costa Rica Living my life on my terms a expat lifestyle and traveling the world at will. Time Freedom is True Freedom!
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Unread 25th Mar 2011, 01:12 AM   #185
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Originally Posted by scotth View Post

Hi,

First good for you for picking up the phone 4 times and taking action..I applaud you!!

Now I can tell you if you continue to take action by calling, you will get better at what your saying...your start to get some success..what I mean is a biz. owner will say yes on a 10 min meeting...confidence will rise...you be bolder...then when you go out and meet a biz owner for 10 min to show them their site and the one you designed...biz owner wants to move forward...then nothing will stop you...b/c once you get 1 you can 100!

Another way is the section in Quentins website on how he has used email successfully, go check it out...

email route works just takes a little longer...I have not tried Quentins method but looks pretty good...

let me give you a tip if you go the email route, I have used these two real simple tips successfully in all of my email campaigns....when sending out a email to a business owner in the subject line always use "Re:Business owners name"huge open rate when done this way..reason they think its a reply to one of their emails...so they open it...no business owner has never expressed to me being put off from it...the second one is I put this invisible code in the email body..so when they open the email I get notified by email its been open...It will give me the heads up...I call them right away important you call them...that has turn into business using it.

the site I use for the invisible code is and its free...spypig.com NOT A AFFILIATE LINK

Hope this helps,

ScottH
Scott, thanks for sharing these tips about the email title and the invisible code. I've never used this type of title before when sending out emails, so all you do is put the business owner's name after the "RE:", and nothing else at all? (i.e. if the business owner's name is John Carlton, then your subject title just reads "Re: John Carlton"?)

Paul

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Unread 25th Mar 2011, 07:50 AM   #186
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Originally Posted by paulie888 View Post

Scott, thanks for sharing these tips about the email title and the invisible code. I've never used this type of title before when sending out emails, so all you do is put the business owner's name after the "RE:", and nothing else at all? (i.e. if the business owner's name is John Carlton, then your subject title just reads "Re: John Carlton"?)

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Yes Paulie exactly like that.

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Unread 25th Mar 2011, 05:29 PM   #187
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Re: Mobile Ready Websites big business in our local market!
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Originally Posted by scotth View Post

Hi,

First good for you for picking up the phone 4 times and taking action..I applaud you!!

Now I can tell you if you continue to take action by calling, you will get better at what your saying...your start to get some success..what I mean is a biz. owner will say yes on a 10 min meeting...confidence will rise...you be bolder...then when you go out and meet a biz owner for 10 min to show them their site and the one you designed...biz owner wants to move forward...then nothing will stop you...b/c once you get 1 you can 100!

Another way is the section in Quentins website on how he has used email successfully, go check it out...

email route works just takes a little longer...I have not tried Quentins method but looks pretty good...

let me give you a tip if you go the email route, I have used these two real simple tips successfully in all of my email campaigns....when sending out a email to a business owner in the subject line always use "Re:Business owners name"huge open rate when done this way..reason they think its a reply to one of their emails...so they open it...no business owner has never expressed to me being put off from it...the second one is I put this invisible code in the email body..so when they open the email I get notified by email its been open...It will give me the heads up...I call them right away important you call them...that has turn into business using it.

the site I use for the invisible code is and its free...spypig.com NOT A AFFILIATE LINK

Hope this helps,

ScottH
Hi Scotth,
Thank you , thank you , thank you for sharing. I checked out Quentin's email strategy and I will implement it over the weekend. I will also incorporate your email subject line strategy as well as using the spying.com code. I will let you know how it all turns out. Thanks again!
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Unread 25th Mar 2011, 11:14 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by tyrabelle View Post

Hi Scotth,
Thank you , thank you , thank you for sharing. I checked out Quentin's email strategy and I will implement it over the weekend. I will also incorporate your email subject line strategy as well as using the spying.com code. I will let you know how it all turns out. Thanks again!
I feel I've done a thorough search however can someone point me to Quentins email strategy mentioned in a couple post on this thread? Is it part of a WSO or simply a section on a website?

Thanks in advance

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Unread 26th Mar 2011, 09:41 AM   #189
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Originally Posted by ballanrk View Post

I feel I've done a thorough search however can someone point me to Quentins email strategy mentioned in a couple post on this thread? Is it part of a WSO or simply a section on a website?

Thanks in advance
Hi, you can get the email strategy from Quentin WSO

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Unread 26th Mar 2011, 01:08 PM   #190
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Well, I have a meeting with an auto repair guy next week and he needs a mobile site and SEO. Scott, I may need some help on the backend for the mobile site.

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Unread 26th Mar 2011, 01:46 PM   #191
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Originally Posted by ADukes81 View Post

Well, I have a meeting with an auto repair guy next week and he needs a mobile site and SEO. Scott, I may need some help on the backend for the mobile site.
Whatever you need bro. let me know..

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Unread 26th Mar 2011, 05:13 PM   #192
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Scott thank you for this Amazing thread! I am planning my Offline Consulting "arsenal" and I want mobile sites and SMS services to be a part of it. But I am WAY over my WSO budget for the month lol. Any free learning resources you can suggest? Should I just start off outsourcing this part and then learn as I go along? Thanks!
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Unread 27th Mar 2011, 09:50 AM   #193
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Originally Posted by Just Jarius View Post

Scott thank you for this Amazing thread! I am planning my Offline Consulting "arsenal" and I want mobile sites and SMS services to be a part of it. But I am WAY over my WSO budget for the month lol. Any free learning resources you can suggest? Should I just start off outsourcing this part and then learn as I go along? Thanks!
You can get custom mobile design for $150 sell for $497. You can use templates of their work...to show demo purposes.

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Unread 27th Mar 2011, 03:15 PM   #194
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Originally Posted by ADukes81 View Post

Well, I have a meeting with an auto repair guy next week and he needs a mobile site and SEO. Scott, I may need some help on the backend for the mobile site.
How exciting ADukes. Wishing you the best
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Unread 27th Mar 2011, 06:50 PM   #195
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Originally Posted by MKBridge View Post

I am using Quentin's product with Kompozer, but I am not sure how to link the phone number so it makes the call.
For the telephone links to work I believe you just use something like this:

<a href="tel:123456789">604-568-3110</a>

Originally Posted by hilear View Post

Say you have XYZ hair salon, xyzhairsalon.com. You create m.xyzhairsalon.com. People are driving around and Google "hairsalon" Do 2 websites come up in the search? xyz.com and m.xyz.com?

Is there something in the software that differentiates the searching device, mobile, laptop etc. to decide which page to display.
If you do a search using Google mobile you will notice that those listings that have a mobile version of their website have a little green phone icon next to them. Obviously these listings are going to get more clicks than the regular ones as people know those sites are mobile optimized.

There is a simple script which you place in the main index page of your website and it will determine the screen size of the device accessing your website. If the screensize is below a certain width it will then redirect that user to your mobile website.

The script is:

<script type="text/javascript">
<!--
if (screen.width <= 699) {
document.location = "mobile.html";
}
//-->
</script>
I wouldn't waste your time with all the complicated php scripts that detect all the different mobile browsers etc. Another reason for this is that some of your customers may not have web hosts that support php which will create problems for you.

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Unread 28th Mar 2011, 01:50 AM   #196
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Awesome thread Scott! Thanks for sharing your success. It totally makes me want to get off of my lazy butt and go make some sales. I have around 10 years of experience in telemarketing and phone interviewing so I should be able to setup some meetings youd think.

This is actually the first time I have ever laid eyes on any thread in this section of the WF...talk about great timing! I have been working towards building a passive income with Adsense and info products online, but selling mobile sites to offline businesses seems like a no brainer and Id be an idiot to pass up on this opportunity.

I have no experience in setting up mobile websites but I think I can manage as it seems easy enough.

So if I already have an html script to place in the subdomain or on a .mobi site, what is the redirect code I have to put on the website to get it to read whether or not it is a cell phone or a computer? And where do I place this code?

Do you ever upsell Google places updates or listings?

I listened to a webinar the other night talking about this same strategy. Only she was targeting LBOs that weren't listed on page 1 of Google places for their keywords and that did not have a mobile website. This way you would have two areas to help the business with right up front.

She suggested contacting these businesses via email with a link to a video explaining the importance of mobile websites. You could create 1 video for an entire vertical market i.e dentists, real estate, mechanics, plumbers, etc.

So the email would be personalized to the specific business and the video would be semi-personalized. Using this strategy you wouldn't be limited to businesses only in your area. I just wonder what kind of conversions one would get using this strategy.

Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks. I have been soaking up this information all weekend and now I am ready to get going! I am going to implement some kind of strategy to get the ball rolling first thing tomorrow morning. I figure the only way to see if it is going to work for me or not is to just take action.

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Unread 28th Mar 2011, 08:12 AM   #197
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Ok - just found this thread - GREAT stuff! Will probably grab the WSO today as I am hitting up local pretty hard with SMS marketing and this would be a great compliment. Here is my question:
What is the best way to see of a business has a mobile site already? Would a mockup show well on my Blackberry?

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Unread 28th Mar 2011, 08:40 AM   #198
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The best way to find out if they have a mobile site is visit it on your mobile but most don't.

You can do a mock up and show it on a website. You get a simulator in the wso.

http://mobilesimulator.info/?url=htt...m/themes/demo2

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Unread 28th Mar 2011, 09:18 AM   #199
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Originally Posted by Matt Helphrey View Post

Awesome thread Scott! Thanks for sharing your success. It totally makes me want to get off of my lazy butt and go make some sales. I have around 10 years of experience in telemarketing and phone interviewing so I should be able to setup some meetings youd think.

This is actually the first time I have ever laid eyes on any thread in this section of the WF...talk about great timing! I have been working towards building a passive income with Adsense and info products online, but selling mobile sites to offline businesses seems like a no brainer and Id be an idiot to pass up on this opportunity.

I have no experience in setting up mobile websites but I think I can manage as it seems easy enough.

So if I already have an html script to place in the subdomain or on a .mobi site, what is the redirect code I have to put on the website to get it to read whether or not it is a cell phone or a computer? And where do I place this code?

Do you ever upsell Google places updates or listings?

I listened to a webinar the other night talking about this same strategy. Only she was targeting LBOs that weren't listed on page 1 of Google places for their keywords and that did not have a mobile website. This way you would have two areas to help the business with right up front.

She suggested contacting these businesses via email with a link to a video explaining the importance of mobile websites. You could create 1 video for an entire vertical market i.e dentists, real estate, mechanics, plumbers, etc.

So the email would be personalized to the specific business and the video would be semi-personalized. Using this strategy you wouldn't be limited to businesses only in your area. I just wonder what kind of conversions one would get using this strategy.

Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks. I have been soaking up this information all weekend and now I am ready to get going! I am going to implement some kind of strategy to get the ball rolling first thing tomorrow morning. I figure the only way to see if it is going to work for me or not is to just take action.

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Hi Matt,

Nice glad you like the information here. Take action and it will work and you will make some good cash in the process plus it opens the door for SEO work for them.

ScottH

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Unread 28th Mar 2011, 09:39 AM   #200
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Originally Posted by Matt Helphrey View Post

Awesome thread Scott! ...She suggested contacting these businesses via email...
As much as we like email, if you put the same amount of time and energy into making phone calls and networking with business owners, you will get better results and a better return.

What a great thread!!
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