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Would this be morally wrong or at worst, illegal?

by mrcouchpotato
44 replies
After an appointment, I always end up forgetting some of the details and/or questions that the business owner may have had. I also wonder if I could have said things differently or explained my services better.

So I was thinking of using the voice recorder on my cell phone to record the audio of my appointments. This would only be for my benefit as a learning tool and I wouldn't mention it to the business owner (he/she would probably get creeped out if they knew I was recording the appointment).

But, my state has a law that both parties need to know that they are being recorded. Both parties being me and the business owner in this case. So I'm sure if I recorded the appointment and posted it on youtube or in a forum or somewhere in public, I'd be toast. But what about if I simply record it for my own personal use?

Mike
#illegal #morally #worse #wrong
  • Profile picture of the author FreeBird85
    Still illegal. However, if nobody but you ever hears it, you have nothing to worry about unless you're gonna turn yourself in
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Thorsett
    Perhaps you could approach it differently. Let the business owner know that you're creating sales training materials (they're for your training, right?) and let them know that you'd be grateful for their assistance, if they wouldn't mind.
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  • Profile picture of the author SiSmart01
    I've done this with clients in a different business a couple of times and they were fine with it.

    "Mr. Client, I'm constantly striving to become more effective and to provide ever better service to my clients - with that in mind would it be okay if I recorded this meeting so that I can review it later?"

    I think most people will be fine if you set it up this way - after all, if they're going to be dealing with you, it's in their interest that you develop better and better performance.
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  • Profile picture of the author Fiona603
    Mine think our mind should be fast at the time of client appoint .I don't feel need voice recorder .
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  • Profile picture of the author powerspike
    Let them know, most will be fine with it.

    Why not take an a5 notebook with you to take bulletpoint style notes?
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    • Profile picture of the author edakehurst
      I have in the past used both of the suggestions above (telling them I like to review things afterwards to make sure I have't missed anything for them, and that I am creating material to help my sales people out). They can be effective, and depending how you ask, most people will be fine with it.

      Do not record it without their permission. You can get in a lot of trouble, and it's not worth it.
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  • Profile picture of the author vndnbrgj
    I don't mean to be redundant, but don't do it without their permission.

    Just tell them you like to record the consultation so you can refer back to it when creating their project, or creating their custom quote, or something similar.

    You don't like to take notes because it distracts you... However, you still like to be able to refer back to the consultation so that you can make sure all their needs get addressed.
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    • Profile picture of the author mrcouchpotato
      Thanks everyone.

      I like the ideas about telling the owner that I'm recording it to refer back to it at a later time to make sure I haven't missed anything.
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      • Profile picture of the author ShayB
        Don't do it without their permission (yes, I know you've heard that a zillion times already).

        I don't see the client objecting if you are up front and say it's for training purposes.
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  • Profile picture of the author TrumpiaTim
    Yes, just be upfront and tell them that the conversation will be recorded seems to be the easiest route
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  • Profile picture of the author Evita
    Glad you will tell them.

    It is not ever a great idea to knowingly break the law ('cept when driving...) it can
    get you into a boat load of trouble even though your intent is benign.

    Evita


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    • Profile picture of the author Summertime Dress
      Another reason to give for the recording is that you want to make sure you and the prospect are "on the same page". Listening is a skill...what I hear is not often what is said because I'm too busy thinking about the next thing I'm going to ask or say. By recording the conversation, you can go back and clarify points that aren't clear.
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  • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
    WTF!?!?

    Okay, I guess it depends on the state that you live in, but you aren't a cop. You are allowed to record audio, whenever you want. Only one party needs to agree to audio tap, and that is you. I don't know where all of you are getting your information from?

    Video is a different story... you can only record your home, or in public domain, or with someones permission.

    When posting the audio, yes it is 100% legal in every US state, you need to not have the clients name or personal information listed in that audio recording if you post it online.

    Recording audio for your own personal use, is not illegal nor unethical. People must be confusing prosecuting testimonies and evidence, but even then, audio taps are legal, lol.
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    • Profile picture of the author edakehurst
      Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

      Okay, I guess it depends on the state that you live in, but you aren't a cop. You are allowed to record audio, whenever you want. Only one party needs to agree to audio tap, and that is you. I don't know where all of you are getting your information from?
      Please be careful of the advice you are giving. There are at least 12 States that I am aware of (California, Connecticut, Florida, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, and Washington) that require consent from all parties to any private conversation if it is to be recorded. It is a crime to do otherwise.
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      • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
        Originally Posted by edakehurst View Post

        Please be careful of the advice you are giving. There are at least 12 States that I am aware of (California, Connecticut, Florida, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, and Washington) that require consent from all parties to any private conversation if it is to be recorded. It is a crime to do otherwise.
        You are misinformed... it is not illegal to record a conversation, only one person needs to know about it. It is illegal to record a conversation to submit as evidence in any criminal or civil court case. What is funny, is that the states you listed, even allow video recording. California, Illinois, Michigan, and Maryland, for a fact, it is legal. In public domain it is 100% legal, in your own home, 100% legal, in someones business, the identity of the person, and perhaps the business(not sure will have to check) needs to be protected in video recording as well as audio. I remember doing a report on this a year and a half ago for ethics in law and there was a similar subject. There are many contingencies regarding this but the OP can legally do this.

        What I have a feeling you did, was do a quick search and found misleading information or maybe you misread something somewhere. The only thing that is illegal in the states you listed is criminal wire tapping through the phone. He is going to appointments to record, not over the phone so there are really no laws stopping this.

        The biggest thing to keep in mind, you can't reveal the business, or the business owner/individual. You can't submit recordings as evidence for court, even though there are many exceptions to that as well. Most laws in place are for call centers and corporations. So... if you want to record incoming calls, then yes you do need to let them know since it is related to business. If you want to record calls that are personal, it is legal. Meetings, it is legal to record. In fact, there are many agents that infiltrate corporate environments and record meetings, board meetings, etc. in order to get incriminating evidence.

        There are many contingencies, like I said. However, the OP is perfect clear, and legal if he wishes to do this in meetings. If he wishes to post audio for advice on how he handled the meeting, he will have to edit the audio to not include information of the business, business name or owner of the business.

        There ya go...

        Now since I need to be "careful with advice". If anyone is wanting to do this in a different situation, that hasn't been covered here, or if you live somewhere other than the USA, then be careful and consult with your attorney first.

        If you wish to be safe in phone recordings, mention it, don't ask for consent, you don't need consent. Federal law states that only one person needs to be aware of any recording... when it comes to criminal evidence, I believe a court needs to approve it in order for it to be submitted in a case. Wire tapping, is not the same thing as recording a conversation, LOL.
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      • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
        Originally Posted by edakehurst View Post

        Please be careful of the advice you are giving. There are at least 12 States that I am aware of (California, Connecticut, Florida, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, and Washington) that require consent from all parties to any private conversation if it is to be recorded. It is a crime to do otherwise.

        AHH now I see, you went to wikipedia and didn't read, you just copied without reading what it was referring to. Next time you try to get involved in something you don't know anything about, and search for something just so you can disagree with me, make sure you read it first!
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    • Profile picture of the author ShayB
      Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

      WTF!?!?

      Okay, I guess it depends on the state that you live in, but you aren't a cop. You are allowed to record audio, whenever you want. Only one party needs to agree to audio tap, and that is you. I don't know where all of you are getting your information from?

      Video is a different story... you can only record your home, or in public domain, or with someones permission.

      When posting the audio, yes it is 100% legal in every US state, you need to not have the clients name or personal information listed in that audio recording if you post it online.

      Recording audio for your own personal use, is not illegal nor unethical. People must be confusing prosecuting testimonies and evidence, but even then, audio taps are legal, lol.
      It depends on your state.

      Some states require the consent of both parties.
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      • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
        Originally Posted by ShayRockhold View Post

        It depends on your state.

        Some states require the consent of both parties.
        In wire taps, yes... but only in certain situations. This is not telemarketing related... it is 100% legal as long as you don't do something stupid that I mentioned in a previous post. I encourage the OP to research it as well, or consult with an attorney. Telemarketing, is different than meeting with someone face to face.
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        • Profile picture of the author bretski
          Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

          In wire taps, yes... but only in certain situations. This is not telemarketing related... it is 100% legal as long as you don't do something stupid that I mentioned in a previous post. I encourage the OP to research it as well, or consult with an attorney. Telemarketing, is different than meeting with someone face to face.
          You are absolutely 100% wrong. Not only is it illegal to record a conversation without the other person's permission in some states it is illegal to posess the recordings. Check your facts Jack before you go off half cocked giving legal advice. There is absolutely no difference in recording a conversation in person according to the legal system.

          Try recording a conversation with your ex and bring it into court in one of the states that doesn't allow recording without both parties permission and see where it lands you. A judge doesn't give a flying fak if it was over the phone or in person.

          As far as the OP... I would suggest that you ask permission no matter what. How embarassing would it be if something happened accidentally and the recording started to play and your client didn't know you were recording the conversation?
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          • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
            Originally Posted by bretski View Post

            You are absolutely 100% wrong. Not only is it illegal to record a conversation without the other person's permission in some states it is illegal to posess the recordings. Check your facts Jack before you go off half cocked giving legal advice. There is absolutely no difference in recording a conversation in person according to the legal system.

            Try recording a conversation with your ex and bring it into court in one of the states that doesn't allow recording without both parties permission and see where it lands you. A judge doesn't give a flying fak if it was over the phone or in person.

            As far as the OP... I would suggest that you ask permission no matter what. How embarassing would it be if something happened accidentally and the recording started to play and your client didn't know you were recording the conversation?
            Read what I posted. Telemarketing, you need to notify the other party, mainly because of what you mentioned, you don't know what state they are in.

            HMMM, according to federal law, one person needs to know about it. There IS a difference between telemarketing and live meetings. 2 party consent states blah blah blah, you aren't wiretapping, you aren't recording as a party not involved, you aren't eaves dropping. In fact, I live in a "2 party consent state" and there was a case not too long ago where Fox 2 news was going into businesses recording and trying to get answers for certain things, one was a hidden cam they had... well one business was mad about it. Not only did they air it on the news but they video recorded and everything. So the business was mad, and tried suing. The judge favored in the defense. Laws that have been passed are very specific to wire tapping, eavesdropping and so on.

            The eavesdropping laws, aren't to protect people you are calling when telemarketing, they are to protect your company!!

            According to the open meetings act, it IS legal!!!!!

            conversations that occur at any public gathering where one could expect to be overheard, including any legislative, judicial or executive proceeding open to the public, are not covered by the statute. For example, when a television network used a hidden camera to videotape a conversation that took place at a business lunch meeting on a crowded outdoor patio of a public restaurant, the conduct did not violate the Penal Code’s prohibition against eavesdropping because it was not a “confidential communication.” Wilkins v. NBC, Inc., 71 Cal. App. 4th 1066 (Cal. Ct. App. 1999).
            In Illinois, an eavesdropping device cannot be used to record or overhear another conversation without the consent of all parties to the conversation. 720 Ill. Compiled Stat. Ann. 5/14-1, -2.



            Standard radio scanners are not eavesdropping devices, according to a 1990 decision from an intermediate appellate court. Illinois v. Wilson, 554 N.E.2d 545 (Ill. App. Ct. 1990). A camera is not an eavesdropping device. Cassidy v. ABC, 377 N.E. 2d 126 (Ill. App. Ct. 1978).


            It is also for any person to “videotape, photograph, or film another person without that person’s consent in a restroom, tanning bed or tanning salon, locker room, changing room or hotel bedroom,” 720 Ill. Compiled Stat. Ann. 5/26-4(a).


            The eavesdropping provisions do not prohibit citizens from electronically recording the proceedings of any meeting subject to the Open Meetings Act.
            Let me know if you need more... no matter what state it is, salesman, even in the privacy of your own home, are allowed to record whether you know about it or not(audio that is), because there is no expectation of privacy. ALSO, if you are in a public place, you do not need consent.

            You guys can argue all you want, this isn't telemarketing, it is an open meeting. The OP is not breaking any laws...

            What state do you live in? I'll drop in the exact laws pertaining to your state so it will end this confusion.
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  • Profile picture of the author LastWarrior
    I say go ahead and record it without the owner's knowledge or consent. When
    you get caught and end up in court, you can you plead the 5th as to not incriminate
    yourself, then you can consult that move with you, as you'll be representing yourself
    as the lead attorney... who then you won't like and you will make a move to dismiss
    your attorney and then you can pack up your brief case and leave the court room.
    Problem solved.

    LastWarrior
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  • Profile picture of the author LastWarrior
    "Mr. Business Owner, I wanted to know if you could do me a favor?"

    Biz owner says: "What is it?"

    You say: "Sometimes my memory isn't that great and I don't write very fast, but I'd
    like to keep as many notes as possible from our meeting so I don't forget anything.
    Would you mind if I took this little recorder here and record the conversation so I can
    keep track of the details for us? That way I won't be preoccupied with trying to
    write all the info down."

    That's an idea. It's called the Straight Honest Truth.

    LastWarrior
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  • Profile picture of the author DocReed
    Have you tried asking a client if it would be okay with them if you recorded? You could explain to them that it's your way of making sure that you don't miss a point that can benefit them.

    I'm an offline consultant and use to do that with certain clients at the beginning of my career.

    Doc Reed
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    • Profile picture of the author LastWarrior
      Originally Posted by DocReed View Post

      Have you tried asking a client if it would be okay with them if you recorded? You could explain to
      them that it's your way of making sure that you don't miss a point that can benefit them.
      That's Genius right there. That's the 2nd best answer here. I love it!

      Great advice.

      LastWarrior
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  • Profile picture of the author diondevelopment
    Originally Posted by mrcouchpotato View Post

    After an appointment, I always end up forgetting some of the details and/or questions that the business owner may have had. I also wonder if I could have said things differently or explained my services better.

    So I was thinking of using the voice recorder on my cell phone to record the audio of my appointments. This would only be for my benefit as a learning tool and I wouldn't mention it to the business owner (he/she would probably get creeped out if they knew I was recording the appointment).

    But, my state has a law that both parties need to know that they are being recorded. Both parties being me and the business owner in this case. So I'm sure if I recorded the appointment and posted it on youtube or in a forum or somewhere in public, I'd be toast. But what about if I simply record it for my own personal use?

    Mike
    Just tell them, "this conversation may be recorded for quality control purposes" or something along those lines. I know every single big company uses this phrase for their tech support departments.
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  • Profile picture of the author BH_Winchester
    Originally Posted by mrcouchpotato View Post

    After an appointment, I always end up forgetting some of the details and/or questions that the business owner may have had. I also wonder if I could have said things differently or explained my services better.

    So I was thinking of using the voice recorder on my cell phone to record the audio of my appointments. This would only be for my benefit as a learning tool and I wouldn't mention it to the business owner (he/she would probably get creeped out if they knew I was recording the appointment).

    But, my state has a law that both parties need to know that they are being recorded. Both parties being me and the business owner in this case. So I'm sure if I recorded the appointment and posted it on youtube or in a forum or somewhere in public, I'd be toast. But what about if I simply record it for my own personal use?

    Mike
    It is still technically illegal where you are, in fact in most places it is, Canadian business owners are real lucky in their one-party system. But have you ever thought of just asking the business owner if you can record the meeting to ensure you have a detailed record of all his needs? I'm sure he wouldn't object!
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    • Profile picture of the author Kevin01736
      From a "client" point of view- I think that if I was having a meeting with a guy who came straight out with the reason (he didn't want to miss any important points) and asked in plenty of time before the meeting, I'd be quite impressed, doubly impressed if the recorder was accompanied by a notebook and pen to reinforce the impression of an eye for detail.
      You see, I have a crummy memory, as do a lot of people, and would completely understand. You'd have me "on side" in a flash, I'd know where you were coming from.

      But if someone covertly recorded me, I would be pretty angry about it, regardless of the legality.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    I recorded some audios for my forum and was going to post until Darren reminded me that its illegal to record (I knew that) without consent... So, dont do it.

    Telemarketing companies who record DO tell the prospect they are being recorded.
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    • Profile picture of the author bretski
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      Telemarketing companies who record DO tell the prospect they are being recorded.
      Telemarketing companies do this because there is no way of telling what state the person on the other end of the line is from. This is their way of covering their azz.
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by bretski View Post

        Telemarketing companies do this because there is no way of telling what state the person on the other end of the line is from. This is their way of covering their azz.
        No doubt. I've seen em "save" a call center owners ass a time or two... Just goes to show another point, most business owners try to do the right thing; its usually the customer who is not being reasonable... or has overlooked something... like download pages for instance.

        Customers will swear up and down you didnt send them something when your buy button leads straight to the download page.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tim Dini
    Originally Posted by mrcouchpotato View Post

    After an appointment, I always end up forgetting some of the details and/or questions that the business owner may have had. I also wonder if I could have said things differently or explained my services better. So I was thinking of using the voice recorder...
    Why a voice recorder instead of a pad of paper and pencil?

    Your presentation should be personal, and specifically designed to your clients personal needs. The best way to serve your client is to know as much as possible or necessary about their needs, and the best way to collect the information is through an interview.

    Think of yourself as a reporter that's gathering information about your client, and write down the information you collect. Use a pencil with an erasure instead of a pen.

    Do this in front of the client and involve them in the reporting process.

    People love to see written information, especially information about themselves. Have the client help you to write the best report about them as you can, together.

    When your client is involved in the creation of the report, they feel a sense of ownership in the process as well as the result. This is a giant step toward developing a trust relationship.

    There are a host of other benefits to this process; enough to fill volumes of psychological resource text books.

    Be honest, ask questions, listen to the answers, and write down both the questions and answers on a pad of paper. I prefer a legal sized pad of yellow paper, and a regular pencil (old school style).

    Always over deliver!
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    • Profile picture of the author creative producer
      Hey Mike,
      Just wanted to chime in here with a couple of points I haven't seen mentioned. First off, this is a relationship that's built on trust. Should you choose not to tell the other person you are recording, you are breaching that trust. What difference does it make if the other person never finds out? The point is, you will know you are hiding something. Most people would have a hard time presenting themselves as authentic and forthcoming when they know they're hiding something. Its amazing how people pick up on things like this. We tend to telegraph these things subconsciously. Have you ever come away from a conversation with the feeling that something was "off" that you couldn't quite put your finger on? Impossible to make a sale under those circumstances. Not the impression you want to risk leaving.
      Secondly, you may be asking owners to share closely held information about their business. Using a recorder (even if they've agree to it) may cause them to hold back on what they tell you, given that they don't know you and vice versa. Competition is fierce in some niches. How honest do you think they'll be about sharing the nitty gritty of what's not working well for them if they know you're walking out the door with a recording? Either way, you may be reducing the effects of your presentation and the time you're spending. Something to consider.
      -CP
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Any Telemarketing company that has been in business for awhile has no issues, because they look after quality control and fire people who dont comply with federal and state regualtions or mislead...

    I said "Once they have been in business for awhile", because it only takes a call center owner about 4 or 5 times of having to pay a $10,000 fine over something stupid a telemarketers said, that they wise up... and start watching qc with an iron fist... Thats when you see them start developing qc tactics...and departments.

    Its also much of the reason why verbatim pitches are required, aside from their predictable results.
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    • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      Any Telemarketing company that has been in business for awhile has no issues, because they look after quality control and fire people who dont comply with federal and state regualtions or mislead...

      I said "Once they have been in business for awhile", because it only takes a call center owner about 4 or 5 times of having to pay a $10,000 fine over something stupid a telemarketers said, that they wise up... and start watching qc with an iron fist... Thats when you see them start developing qc tactics...and departments.

      Its also much of the reason why verbatim pitches are required, aside from their predictable results.
      John, I agree with you completely... all I am trying to say, is the OP can record the conversation in a face-to-face meeting. But he can not upload it to share. Telemarketing is obviously a totally different game.
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

        John, I agree with you completely... all I am trying to say, is the OP can record the conversation in a face-to-face meeting. But he can not upload it to share. Telemarketing is obviously a totally different game.
        Indeed, I wasnt debating , just adding another point or two...

        Originally Posted by David Chambless View Post

        Wow!

        From the number of "Lawyers" posting on the WF, you'd think the law profession is in a serious decline!!!

        My humble advice is:

        Go ask the Lawyer you'd hire to get you out of trouble!

        David
        Why over complicate something that is a no brainer? Do you need to hire a lawyer to tell you not to rob a bank or run a redlight?

        This truth should be self evident. its a violation of peoples privacy... In truth, most people dont care and when you tell them they are being recorded you say it in a way that makes it easy for them to agree and move on anyway... Most telemarketing companies dont have the record button on until you get to the "closing" screen, then it automatically comes on...

        "Alrighty ma'am Im gonna just get a little information from you, and btw this portion of the call may be be recorded in compliance with state and federal law for quality control purposes... This is for your protection and ours is that okay?

        Okay, Great! Now if I understand correctly you are going with our gold package today is that right?

        okay and Have I got the correct spelling of your company name here________?

        Okay and....

        So on and so forth...

        They smoothly transition, it has to do with pace, and getting in your groove, once you get to talking a telemarketer learns to roll that stuff right by a person at 90 miles per hour...

        Easy peasy... one in 100 people actually say "Oh now way, Im not being recorded.... click...", the rest dont care... btw, if you are lucky enough to get them down to a close the repoire is there anyway, so its no big deal.
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  • Profile picture of the author genetaylor
    I call on businesses and do record the conversations......on a Kodak HD camera that looks like an iphone. I put it on a tripod and video the "interview". Only takes a minute to set up. Most people are kind of flattered to be interviewed on film and I have something later for analysis. Amazing what you can pick up in a filmed conversation that you missed in the live
    conversation.

    I wonder if the same telephone recording rules apply...
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  • Profile picture of the author EdmundDantes
    That's a tough one. But like everyone else has mentioned it is illegal. You can ask them if they don't mind being recorded, and if they say no you just don't do it.

    Most likely only people who are shady would mind being recorded. If that is the case you might save yourself some time and headache anyways.
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  • Profile picture of the author johnhoefer
    First, depending on what state you are in, I think you may be wrong about the laws.

    Both people have to know they are being recorded in order for the recording to be used in legal proceedings. Or, if you secretly record someone and then use that to embarrass them publically then you can be held liable. Otherwise, recording other people and then just putting it in your office desk is not illegal. I am not a lawyer, I just play one on the Warrior Forum so take that for what its worth.

    That being said. I would be fine with either way. Covertly or being straight up about it. You know you aren't going to do anything with it and you know that you will probably erase the recording after you are sure you have all the info off it. No reason to max out your cell phone with a bunch of old recordings.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Chambless
    Since I've worked into my second wind this evening, I thought I'd "kick over some traces" as some British friends say.

    --"Do you need to hire a lawyer to tell you not to rob a bank or run a redlight?"

    No, John, I don't need to hire a lawyer to tell me not to rob a bank or run a red light. Just happy I've got a good one if I ever do rob a bank or run a red light.

    --"Why over complicate something that is a no brainer?"

    When does operating your business from a position of legal strength become a complication? Getting a visit from the alphabet guys, or getting sued, now that's a complication.

    --"This truth should be self evident. its a violation of peoples privacy."

    Most self-evident truths are historically wrong.
    Like the people's "right" to privacy. It's not mentioned or guaranteed in the Constitution of this Republic.

    --"In truth, most people dont care and when you tell them they are being recorded you say it in a way that makes it easy for them to agree and move on anyway... Most telemarketing companies dont have the record button on until you get to the "closing" screen anyway."

    I do agree that when you have rapport, literally everyone will let you record the meeting. I've been recording my face to face pitches and closes with micro recorders, (tape, then digital) since the late '80s, with so little fuss I can't remember any real objections to it. Using the video cameras were the most fun.

    Oh, and the OP was asking about face to face meetings, not telemarketing.

    As for using recordings on the forum or something else, ask your attorney about talent releases and other forms of permission you can ask clients for.

    But, that might be too complicated . . .

    Peace,
    David
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by David Chambless View Post

      Since I’ve worked into my second wind this evening, I thought I’d “kick over some traces” as some British friends say.

      --"Do you need to hire a lawyer to tell you not to rob a bank or run a redlight?"

      No, John, I don’t need to hire a lawyer to tell me not to rob a bank or run a red light. Just happy I’ve got a good one if I ever do rob a bank or run a red light.

      --"Why over complicate something that is a no brainer?"

      When does operating your business from a position of legal strength become a complication? Getting a visit from the alphabet guys, or getting sued, now that’s a complication.

      --"This truth should be self evident. its a violation of peoples privacy."

      Most self-evident truths are historically wrong.
      Like the people’s “right” to privacy. It’s not mentioned or guaranteed in the Constitution of this Republic.

      --"In truth, most people dont care and when you tell them they are being recorded you say it in a way that makes it easy for them to agree and move on anyway... Most telemarketing companies dont have the record button on until you get to the "closing" screen anyway."

      I do agree that when you have rapport, literally everyone will let you record the meeting. I’ve been recording my face to face pitches and closes with micro recorders, (tape, then digital) since the late ‘80s, with so little fuss I can’t remember any real objections to it. Using the video cameras were the most fun.

      Oh, and the OP was asking about face to face meetings, not telemarketing.

      As for using recordings on the forum or something else, ask your attorney about talent releases and other forms of permission you can ask clients for.

      But, that might be too complicated . . .

      Peace,
      David
      Again, most people dont have an issue with being recorded if you ask them, but you still have to ask, actually not ask, but rather let them know they are being recorded.

      As far as "record" buttons on the closing screen.... yeah back in the 80's we used digital pocket recorders, now auto and predictive dialers do it automatically in 50% of the calls centers all over America.

      Anyway, obviously you have a grip on it...

      Having a team of lawyers never hurts , thats correct, but empathy is understanding who you are talking to... and most of these people arent there, where they can do that at the drop of a hat... So, pardon me if its just more productive to tell them what I know from my personal experience, I have a wealth of it and it doesnt cost me anything to share.

      If I had I team of Lawyers on retainer though which I dont... I would call one of them up right now and ask for this guy... that would be above and beyond if I was looking for an idea to help.

      In retrospect this whole thread was a waste it looks like, and the op knows it...Who cant write notes at a meeting and remember what they agreed to with their customer?

      Thats not a bad thing but if its true, maybe your talents are better sutied for something else.

      Arent you purposely driving the sales conversation? Isnt there a system or an objective... you dont know your pitch, what you are offering?

      Dont have a systematic way of going in and pitching and taking control...

      As calculated as the process of closing a sale is, I find it hard to believe that a person isnt painfully aware of every shift in vibration or nuance in the prospects body language... I find it hard to believe that anyone considering a professional offline career would even be asking this question.

      If you are serious, Im gonna be serious and suggest perhaps a change of career. SUMBODY has to tell the truth around here.

      I think the issue may be more a change of businesses models being called for if this question is real.

      You want solid advice thats it. There are alot of things you can do and not be on your game, but closing offline sales isnt one.
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  • Profile picture of the author MarthaD.
    I agree with Tim Dini - use a notepad! I think it makes you look more interested, conscientious, and professional and people usually do tend to like it - makes them feel you're being thorough, which of course you want to be. Additionally, make some notes for yourself ahead of time so you won't be worry about forgetting something and/or keep you from really listening to the customer.
    Just short bullet point list - you'll get better at it as you use it.
    In fact, with each interview, you'll probably pick up some good points to add to your own list - also, there's nothing wrong with calling back - thank them for their time, tell them you just wanted to clarify some points or cover an add'l. point. Most people really don't mind this and even appreciate your wanting to be thorough.
    One thing you always want to have on your list - always end by summarizing what they've told you to be sure you have it right and also confirms in their mind what they want or expect - sort of like having them say "yes" to the sale before asking for it. Then just ask them if there's anything else their not sure of or any questions, doubts, etc. that you can help them with.
    If done right, it should pretty much end with a sale when you follow up - no guarantee of course, but in your initial interview you're sort of letting them sell themselves on what they want with the right questions, having them agree, anticipate and answer their doubts.
    All comes with time and experience - something I use to do but must admit, it's been a long time and still have to get myself back into too.
    Sorry, probably got off track here!!! Main point - use a note pad!
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    MarthaD.

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