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Mobile Smackdown: Long Codes vs Short Codes

by Joshua N. Rabon
50 replies
Most people are touting short codes over long codes. Only a few people think like I think.

1. 5 extra numbers couldn't possibly limit response if the offer is great.
2. Short codes severely limit keyword usage.
3. For some reason short codes cost more on most platforms.
4. A provider can change or discontinue short codes causing
albeit minor but annoying hiccups.
5. More keywords allows you to organize & track campaigns better (not sure if this is true it just seems logical).
6. A long code would be better for branding because people see multiple companies using the same short code and might be confused.
7. Maybe (just thought of this) a 5 digit number is a lot easier for people to remember ( I don't know ) but since one sends out the prompt to text for a discount, memorizing the # isn't that important.

What are your thoughts on this?
#code #codes #long #longcode #mobile #short #smackdown
  • Profile picture of the author byte
    Well the big difference from my understanding is the text blast. Most long codes you can only send so many texts in a certain amount of time. And as a short code you can blast them all with out limits.

    For example, if you look at yeez.com/sms_package.php, they tell you. ( ** Max throughput 600 msgs per hour) So if you have a list of 1,200 people, it will take 2 hours to msg them all. Not good for instant traffic, but good if you know a few hours in advance.
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    • Profile picture of the author Nick Surran
      Originally Posted by byte View Post

      Well the big difference from my understanding is the text blast. Most long codes you can only send so many texts in a certain amount of time. And as a short code you can blast them all with out limits.

      For example, if you look at yeez.com/sms_package.php, they tell you. ( ** Max throughput 600 msgs per hour) So if you have a list of 1,200 people, it will take 2 hours to msg them all. Not good for instant traffic, but good if you know a few hours in advance.
      I debated a long time because each has pros and cons. I chose a short code for exactly the reason stated by byte. I want my clients to have the option to send time-sensitive offers.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jay Moreno
    Don't forget with long codes you also have the added value of "voice" as well - tied in with openvbx or your own custom setup it's an extremely powerful marketing tool

    Am also onboard with long codes too
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    • Profile picture of the author GerryLee
      Originally Posted by Jay Moreno View Post

      Don't forget with long codes you also have the added value of "voice" as well - tied in with openvbx or your own custom setup it's an extremely powerful marketing tool

      Am also onboard with long codes too
      Mr. Moreno,
      Wass up Sir?

      Expand on what you were saying, please. I'm intrigued by what I've learned about long codes too. I'd like to know more.

      Thanks,
      GerryLee

      P.S. Closing in on those PMs, Man!
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  • Profile picture of the author Joshua N. Rabon
    Thanks Byte, I'll look into that, but I hope your mistaken.

    And Jay, I didn't know that, one more point for Long codes
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    • Profile picture of the author Howard88
      Why not just use shortcodes and long codes for different purposes?

      I can see how shortcodes give less friction to the person signing up on a 'vip' list, or whatever sms list you're signing them up on. Why? Because of the inherent psychology of it.

      Example... If you are dialing a number, or texting a certain word to a full phone number, you are going to automatically feel like you are giving your number away to somebody. I know I would. You may think "Maybe I shouldn't call/text this number, because then they have my number."

      Try to pick up a girl "way out of your league" and see how this works out. Never happens to me, but you should try. Not only that...

      How many people who voted for their favorite American Idol last year felt like American Idol was then going to call them back and offer them a $25 coffee mug with Scotty McCreery's (i.e. Alfred E. Neuman's) stupid face on it?!

      One... but that was because I was a bit tipsy and also a marketer, and also felt that Scott's smooth southern drawl was somehow autotuned to sound THAT GOOD!

      Anyway, what I'm getting at is simple.

      Shortcodes are easier to build lists because people don't feel like they are giving their personal number away. Long Codes are better for other things like backend phone stuff that the business doesn't want to deal with... *can anybody say "upsell"?

      Example - "press 2 to hear about our specials", "press 3 to hear about why we don't serve Pandas in our establishment." I assume this can all be done with twilio's OpenVBX. I'm new to this so please don't quote me. But it just seems obvious if you actually think about where the customer is at in this situation.

      This is all my humble, just getting started opinion by the way. And I'm very glad to be getting into this wide open market!

      For all of you guys using long codes with no problem, that's awesome! And if it's working I would say keep doing that. Short codes do have many drawbacks that I've already read about on the forum. I just feel like it's probably easier to build a list with a short code.

      My idea is to set up mine and my client's businesses with a short code to build up a list of customers, and then offer a total phone solution, using twilio's OpenVBX for long codes with voice.

      I know several small restaurant owners who get phone calls all the time and I feel like they would love to use a long code for their normal everyday calls, plus build a database of loyal customers with a short code.

      The most important thing though, and the reason for this post, is that we have to know where we stand before going out and talking to businesses.

      If you're all for shortcodes all the way, great. If you're gung-ho for long codes and see all the benefits there, then do that. But IF they happen to know about this stuff, probably not, but if they do, you want to be the authority on it.

      Just my 10 cents
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      • Profile picture of the author Joshua N. Rabon
        Originally Posted by Howard88 View Post

        Why not just use shortcodes and long codes for different purposes?

        I can see how shortcodes give less friction to the person signing up on a 'vip' list, or whatever sms list you're signing them up on. Why? Because of the inherent psychology of it.

        Example... If you are dialing a number, or texting a certain word to a full phone number, you are going to automatically feel like you are giving your number away to somebody. I know I would. You may think "Maybe I shouldn't call/text this number, because then they have my number."

        Try to pick up a girl "way out of your league" and see how this works out. Never happens to me, but you should try. Not only that...

        How many people who voted for their favorite American Idol last year felt like American Idol was then going to call them back and offer them a $25 coffee mug with Scotty McCreery's (i.e. Alfred E. Neuman's) stupid face on it?!

        One... but that was because I was a bit tipsy and also a marketer, and also felt that Scott's smooth southern drawl was somehow autotuned to sound THAT GOOD!

        Anyway, what I'm getting at is simple.

        Shortcodes are easier to build lists because people don't feel like they are giving their personal number away. Long Codes are better for other things like backend phone stuff that the business doesn't want to deal with... *can anybody say "upsell"?

        Example - "press 2 to hear about our specials", "press 3 to hear about why we don't serve Pandas in our establishment." I assume this can all be done with twilio's OpenVBX. I'm new to this so please don't quote me. But it just seems obvious if you actually think about where the customer is at in this situation.

        This is all my humble, just getting started opinion by the way. And I'm very glad to be getting into this wide open market!

        For all of you guys using long codes with no problem, that's awesome! And if it's working I would say keep doing that. Short codes do have many drawbacks that I've already read about on the forum. I just feel like it's probably easier to build a list with a short code.

        My idea is to set up mine and my client's businesses with a short code to build up a list of customers, and then offer a total phone solution, using twilio's OpenVBX for long codes with voice.

        I know several small restaurant owners who get phone calls all the time and I feel like they would love to use a long code for their normal everyday calls, plus build a database of loyal customers with a short code.

        The most important thing though, and the reason for this post, is that we have to know where we stand before going out and talking to businesses.

        If you're all for shortcodes all the way, great. If you're gung-ho for long codes and see all the benefits there, then do that. But IF they happen to know about this stuff, probably not, but if they do, you want to be the authority on it.

        Just my 10 cents


        Very, very strong point about the list-building. And since the money is in the list, this one single point might have swayed me. Not the part about ppl not wanting to give out their #, but just the impact it could hvae on building the list.

        I was focused on what happens when they are already on the list.

        Ok, I've sat back and remembered (just now) when Payless got me on their list. It was with a shortcode offering a 30% discount. Now although I would have joined with a long code for 30%, I probably would be resistant to join at all if the discount was smaller.

        I point that out because I'm targeting businesses that would probably only be comfortable offering small freebies or 5-10% discounts.

        Being a copywriter I believe in the "Greased Chute" principle, and I think you might be right about it gumming up the works.

        Thanks Howard88
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  • Profile picture of the author allegrity
    They both have their uses. Short codes I imagine are better for national/large area campaigns and long codes are better for local/small businesses.
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  • Profile picture of the author byte
    The only reason I posted that one con, is because that is the ONLY reason I am going short over long. But like everyone said its really hard to say what is the best one to use. BOTH do have pros and cons. But I want to be able to get INSTANT traffic in a emergency for my clients.

    But just remember what my fav. radio station says...
    "Its not the SIZE of the bone, its where you bury it!"

    So just look at what YOU think would work out best for you and your clients! The easier sale doesn't hurt. So if you really want to, offer both!
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  • Profile picture of the author redlegrich
    If you have the problem of a lot of messages to sent that they need to be staged then good for you! The other advantage of long codes (using Twilio in this case with OpenVBX) is they are so cheap you can get a different number for each establishment in a chain and each can have the same keyword. Good keywords go fast with shared short codes.

    Also, in a large bar or restaurant each server can have their own long code and use it to recruit into the system and you can have a contest. A good way to see who is kicking butt. However, be nice reward them for success!

    Like everything else in life there are tradeoffs on either side. I think the key aspect for long codes is the very low cost of entry and ownership. That, is a big deal.
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    • Profile picture of the author TheLocalCoach
      Good discussion. Long Codes are rapidly gaining popularity for many of the reasons mentioned. While it hasn't been brought up yet on this thread, there are Short Code sellers out there telling people that Long Codes use an SMTP protocol, which is not true. Some of these same people are telling people that there are deliverabilty issues with Long Codes, which is exactly the opposite of true. Long codes offer the best deliverability. Every short code has to be registered with every wireless carrier, an expensive and time-consuming process. Even some of the "big" Short Code providers don't set up on carriers like Cricket and MetroPCS, let alone the other 50-60 smaller, regional carriers.

      This thread has come closest to hitting the nail on the head. There's a place and time for both. Most small businesses don't need huge throughout, but when they do, a short code is best. Need opt-ins from a verbal cue (radio/tv), then a vanity short code works best. Same if you need to broadcast an eminent weather alert. But with the keyword expense and limitations, long codes work better in most cases for small business. Not to mention the ability to use different Keywords to both track your ROI, and to segment your lists so your text marketing remains relevant to customers' interests (men don't want promos from a salon for specials on manicures and hair color). The idea of 1-2 Keywords per business, building one big list and blasting every message to everyone (one-to-many marketing) is dangerous. Irrelevant messages equal lower response and higher opt-outs.
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      • Profile picture of the author Joshua N. Rabon
        Originally Posted by EatDrinkTextJay View Post

        Good discussion. Long Codes are rapidly gaining popularity for many of the reasons mentioned. While it hasn't been brought up yet on this thread, there are Short Code sellers out there telling people that Long Codes use an SMTP protocol, which is not true. Some of these same people are telling people that there are deliverabilty issues with Long Codes, which is exactly the opposite of true. Long codes offer the best deliverability. Every short code has to be registered with every wireless carrier, an expensive and time-consuming process. Even some of the "big" Short Code providers don't set up on carriers like Cricket and MetroPCS, let alone the other 50-60 smaller, regional carriers.

        This thread has come closest to hitting the nail on the head. There's a place and time for both. Most small businesses don't need huge throughout, but when they do, a short code is best. Need opt-ins from a verbal cue (radio/tv), then a vanity short code works best. Same if you need to broadcast an eminent weather alert. But with the keyword expense and limitations, long codes work better in most cases for small business. Not to mention the ability to use different Keywords to both track your ROI, and to segment your lists so your text marketing remains relevant to customers' interests (men don't want promos from a salon for specials on manicures and hair color). The idea of 1-2 Keywords per business, building one big list and blasting every message to everyone (one-to-many marketing) is dangerous. Irrelevant messages equal lower response and higher opt-outs.


        Yes, I'm seeing that there isn't a clear winner and I will have to plan on using both and of course doing some testing. BTW does Yeez offer both, it looks likes you don't.
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        • Profile picture of the author zenyatta
          There is definitely ways to work with both the long codes and the short codes. The actual opt-in can be made easy for either one by using a QR Code that goes to your keyword and short or long code and then the customer only has to click send once scanned so they don't even have to type a code or keyword.

          I looked at 30+ suppliers before choosing my white label and I went short code because I work with restaurants a lot that need to send 1000s of messages out immediately, but there are a few more reasons as well.

          If the text is being routed through smtp it is not supposed to be used for commercial purposes. Also think about why these companies are limiting your texts. They do this to fly under the radar because the phone carriers watch those channels and will block them or change domains to stop the activity. So it is a cat and mouse game since the carriers aren't paid to provide the service you might not get good delivery or delivery at all. What happens to your clients list you have been works months building if your messages are blocked or the domain is changed?

          Your right TextJay is does take a long time for true SMS providers to get their codes because there is a thorough screening and licensing process that happens. I sure wouldn't want to get hooked up with a shady long code supplier since they just setup shop one day without any licensing let alone a background check. I will pay .01-.015 for the "true" blast delivery of my short code provider and also because I know who I am in bed with.
          Not to mention a very robust platform with mobile coupons, mobile ads, qr code generator, polling, sweepstakes, appt setter, and everything is integrated with Facebook to help spread clients offers virally.
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          • Profile picture of the author TheLocalCoach
            Originally Posted by zenyatta View Post

            There is definitely ways to work with both the long codes and the short codes. The actual opt-in can be made easy for either one by using a QR Code that goes to your keyword and short or long code and then the customer only has to click send once scanned so they don't even have to type a code or keyword.

            I looked at 30+ suppliers before choosing my white label and I went short code because I work with restaurants a lot that need to send 1000s of messages out immediately, but there are a few more reasons as well.

            If the text is being routed through smtp it is not supposed to be used for commercial purposes. Also think about why these companies are limiting your texts. They do this to fly under the radar because the phone carriers watch those channels and will block them or change domains to stop the activity. So it is a cat and mouse game since the carriers aren't paid to provide the service you might not get good delivery or delivery at all. What happens to your clients list you have been works months building if your messages are blocked or the domain is changed?

            Your right TextJay is does take a long time for true SMS providers to get their codes because there is a thorough screening and licensing process that happens. I sure wouldn't want to get hooked up with a shady long code supplier since they just setup shop one day without any licensing let alone a background check. I will pay .01-.015 for the "true" blast delivery of my short code provider and also because I know who I am in bed with.
            Not to mention a very robust platform with mobile coupons, mobile ads, qr code generator, polling, sweepstakes, appt setter, and everything is integrated with Facebook to help spread clients offers virally.
            Zenyatta,
            Please check your facts. YeeZ Mobile does NOT use, and never has, SMTP technology (nor would we). We have been offering SMS Long Codes for 2 years in the U.S. (now Canada too). So we agree that SMTP is not a good protocol.

            Our customers have the option of using Short or Long Codes from our integrated platform, but 98% of our customers CHOOSE never to use a Short Code because they don't need it. There are a few circumstances where a Short Code makes more sense, but most small businesses do not need it, and enjoy the lower prices, much better deliverability and most importantly, having unlimited, free and premium keywords (free, enter, win, vip) for every single business. Not to mention its cost prohibitive to do any segmentation with Short Codes if you're paying a monthly charge for every keyword.

            If you're only building one big list for your clients (one Keyword), and blasting every message to every person, lets talk a year from now when your list shrinks from all the opt-outs. One-to-many (one-to-all) marketing isn't nearly as effective or very smart.
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        • Profile picture of the author TheLocalCoach
          YeeZ Mobile offers the ability to integrate Short and Long Codes within our platform. We have several clients who mix the two very successfully. 98% of our clients, however, never choose to integrate Short Codes, as they don't need it.
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          • Profile picture of the author TWalker
            Unfortunately it still doesn't work so back to the drawing board. If it doesn't work on my phone how could I in good conscience sell it to my clients?

            This service I was going to offer my real estate clients was very slick, it had everything I needed.

            Unfortunately it uses short codes. The fact that I never got subscribed was the worst but there are other issues:

            Since they use shorties and they have limited keywords you also have to use a prefix "goto mykeyword".

            Which only complicates it. Whats the point in shortening the number but lengthening the keywords?

            Normal length local numbers rock!
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    • Profile picture of the author SendCards
      Originally Posted by redlegrich View Post

      Also, in a large bar or restaurant each server can have their own long code and use it to recruit into the system and you can have a contest. A good way to see who is kicking butt. However, be nice reward them for success!
      This is pretty huge, almost like having an SMS army! Great idea..

      Cheers!

      Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author jasonthewebmaster
    Banned
    Long Numbers vs. Short Codes

    Both Long numbers and Short codes have its advantages and disadvantages.[1]
    International accessibility is the ideal solution for global players who wish to run international campaigns. Limited to national borders, short codes have to be activated in each country where the campaign will take place, which might be expensive and time consuming. For long term campaigns or any other assignment, long numbers are also a good solution, as the number can be assigned exclusively for a long term. The Long Numbers option can be obtained directly from an SMS provider with SS7access, which is the shortest way possible to have an SMS reception option. To have access to a short code, service providers must enter a bilateral agreement with the mobile network operator that actually owns the number. This process can take time, and potentially cause delays in implementing campaigns. Alternatively, service providers can rent short codes from aggregators, creating another middleman in the value-chain. Premium messaging services are not possible on Long Codes, they require Short codes and operator agreements.


    Long number - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



    Also, this is cool but totally inaccurate
    http://shortcodesvslongcodes.com/
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  • Profile picture of the author tjkirgin
    Here is my 2 cents on short codes vs. long codes. Both work well for small advertisers, however it IS easier to recall a 5 or 6 digit "catchy" short code like 32020 that a long code like 3145812423. Also, long codes are nothing more than mobile phone numbers and usually are connected to the carriers via a hosted SIM card or GSM modem. These solutions although inexpensive are low volume, high latency. A common short code can push through 2400-12000 sms per minute with a tier one MT SMPP bind. Common short codes through a reputable aggregator also allow for confirmation of delivery receipts from the carrier which can come in handy in reporting or customer service issues.

    It takes 3-4 months to provision a common short code in most countries because the carriers spend alot of time scoping you out and making sure you are not another spammer.

    We have 9 common short codes live in the US, Canada, Mexico, Brazil, Argentia & Columbia. We are looking for premier resellers to host, manage and sell resellers in other nations.

    We are Anchor Mobile
    TJ
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    US, Canada, & Latin America | Tier 1 SMPP Shared Short Codes | QR Bar Codes | Mobile Website | Enterprise SMS Software | White Label Reseller Availability | Extreme Customer Service | Text WARRIOR to 94932 White Label SMS Reseller

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    • Profile picture of the author zenyatta
      Hi Tjkirgin,

      Anchor Mobile has a good product and is very reputable. What is their text pricing for white label resellers? I want to compare them against Lime Cellular. If anyone else is talking to Lime ask for Yuval and tell him Zenyatta sent you to get GREAT pricing.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joshua N. Rabon
    Zenyata & tjkirgin, you guys are teaching me some important stuff. I've read the websites of about a dozen providers and I didn't get any of this.
    Thanks

    BTW Zenyata, can you divulge who you have a Whitelabel with.
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    • Profile picture of the author zenyatta
      Originally Posted by Joshua N. Rabon View Post

      Zenyata & tjkirgin, you guys are teaching me some important stuff. I've read the websites of about a dozen providers and I didn't get any of this.
      Thanks

      BTW Zenyata, can you divulge who you have a Whitelabel with.

      Sure I am with Lime. After looking at 30+ providers I found that they had the most robust platform, 1.0-1.5 cent texts, and fantastic support. This is "true" SMS also not long code or smtp based. Talk with Yuval (UV) and tell him Zenyatta sent you for a great total package.
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      • Profile picture of the author scarab
        Long codes started quite a few years ago and only those with ultra deep pockets and those looking national exposure used them. Very expensive and still very expensive today.

        Think of it like a person in business of doing SMS, they started 8 years ago and got in early, sold a bunch of programs to business people and charged a damned fortune. Today eight years later they are very rich and each of the small SMS stratups now have CEO's, CTO,CIO and sales staffs of 50 or more.

        Now why in the world would they scrap the golden calf and offer lower prices without the need for expensive keywords and expensive shortcodes. There really is no incentive for them to tell a client "I can now do the work for you at 1/10 the price".

        I bet I have read about 20 different articles in the past 2 weeks saying that the short codes are dead. I doubt that really because the big corporations will continue to use them because we all know how slow they are to react to anything. Once the big corporations start using low cost messaging then maybe short codes will go away.

        Right now the Telco's and the SMS gateway folks like what is happening right now. Handing out virtual phone numbers and letting SMS be available to everyone is bringing in more bucks than the corporations ever spent in this market.
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  • Profile picture of the author FrozenTundra
    Why not look at what is actually being used in the market place instead of throwing out philosophical ideas on what works?

    I can show you 500 companies successfully using shortcodes within my niche. Longcodes? Zero.

    Mind you this is a random sampling. If you have a list of 500 companies successfully using longcodes and zero shortcodes - we need to talk. I really missed something.
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    • Profile picture of the author TheLocalCoach
      Originally Posted by zenyatta View Post

      There is definitely ways to work with both the long codes and the short codes. The actual opt-in can be made easy for either one by using a QR Code that goes to your keyword and short or long code and then the customer only has to click send once scanned so they don't even have to type a code or keyword.

      I looked at 30+ suppliers before choosing my white label and I went short code because I work with restaurants a lot that need to send 1000s of messages out immediately, but there are a few more reasons as well.

      If the text is being routed through smtp it is not supposed to be used for commercial purposes. Also think about why these companies are limiting your texts. They do this to fly under the radar because the phone carriers watch those channels and will block them or change domains to stop the activity. So it is a cat and mouse game since the carriers aren't paid to provide the service you might not get good delivery or delivery at all. What happens to your clients list you have been works months building if your messages are blocked or the domain is changed?

      Your right TextJay is does take a long time for true SMS providers to get their codes because there is a thorough screening and licensing process that happens. I sure wouldn't want to get hooked up with a shady long code supplier since they just setup shop one day without any licensing let alone a background check. I will pay .01-.015 for the "true" blast delivery of my short code provider and also because I know who I am in bed with.
      Not to mention a very robust platform with mobile coupons, mobile ads, qr code generator, polling, sweepstakes, appt setter, and everything is integrated with Facebook to help spread clients offers virally.
      Originally Posted by FrozenTundra View Post

      Why not look at what is actually being used in the market place instead of throwing out philosophical ideas on what works?

      I can show you 500 companies successfully using shortcodes within my niche. Longcodes? Zero.

      Mind you this is a random sampling. If you have a list of 500 companies successfully using longcodes and zero shortcodes - we need to talk. I really missed something.
      OK Frozen let's talk!

      ps- There's a reason that Twilio and several other large mobile players have jumped onto the Long Code bandwagon in the past 4-6 months.... Again, Long Codes do NOT equal SMTP.
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      • Profile picture of the author zenyatta
        Originally Posted by EatDrinkTextJay View Post

        OK Frozen let's talk!

        ps- There's a reason that Twilio and several other large mobile players have jumped onto the Long Code bandwagon in the past 4-6 months.... Again, Long Codes do NOT equal SMTP.

        Hi Jay,

        I am curious about your long code non SMTP text service. Are there any limitations or can I send a text to 5000 customers in say 1 minute? Do I also get verification that all of my texts were delivered or what percentage failed? What is your per text pricing? Thanks for the info!!
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        • Profile picture of the author TheLocalCoach
          Originally Posted by zenyatta View Post

          Hi Jay,

          I am curious about your long code non SMTP text service. Are there any limitations or can I send a text to 5000 customers in say 1 minute? Do I also get verification that all of my texts were delivered or what percentage failed? What is your per text pricing? Thanks for the info!!
          The only limitations, as have been stated on the thread, are the throughput. So Short Codes are better for situations that require thousands of messages in minutes (which are rare). Since Long Codes are not carrier dependent, they have the best deliverability. Our system provides a complete audit trail of incoming and outgoing traffic. We don't ever need a "percentage failed" statistic!

          PM me for pricing details.
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          • Profile picture of the author zenyatta
            Originally Posted by EatDrinkTextJay View Post

            The only limitations, as have been stated on the thread, are the throughput. So Short Codes are better for situations that require thousands of messages in minutes (which are rare). Since Long Codes are not carrier dependent, they have the best deliverability. Our system provides a complete audit trail of incoming and outgoing traffic. We don't ever need a "percentage failed" statistic!

            PM me for pricing details.
            Hi Jay,

            I noticed on the Yeez website it shows 600 texts per hour max. Is that something Yeez limits or the actual carriers receiving the texts are limiting?
            Why is it being limited on either the delivering or receiving side? Just trying to learn more about the whole texting process behind the scenes.

            Thanks,
            Zen
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  • Profile picture of the author TWalker
    Nobody mentioned the local trust factor. This is the #1 reason I would use long code local numbers through say Twilio/OpenVBX. What consumer isnt wary of SPAM? I would hesitate to send my number through to some "unknown" destination.

    A local number is 100x more warm and friendly. IMO

    Not to mention lets say your selling to real estate companies in an area. They all want the same keywords so how ya gonna use shorties? . Its a no brainer for that scenario.
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  • Profile picture of the author TWalker
    One more reason I don't like short codes:

    I'm on a customer service help line right now trying to get a specific short code activated for my phone account.

    In case you didn't know short codes don't necessarilly work by default with all carriers and must be activated. Or sometimes 6 digit codes work and 5 digit codes don't or vice versa etc etc.

    So I just now hung up and it is supposedly activated but they warned me that that this shortcode will likely charge 9.95 to my account (not my phone account).

    So my distaste for short codes only grows. I see little to no advantage to them and local numbers are best. Too bad this new service uses short codes and they have what I need to offer my real estate clients.

    If I wasn't going to make money off offering this service to my clients I wouldnt use it nor would I even take the time to call my cell company. I can only imagine how many subscribers my clients will lose simply because this service thinks "short codes are cool".
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  • Profile picture of the author Jay Moreno
    @zenyatta - i know your question was aimed at EatDrinkTextJay but i just wanted to add my 2 cents...

    Bulk sending of sms from a longcode sms is really its biggest drawback that i have seen - long code text services that i know of dont really facilitate txting to large numbers of recipients, unlike a shortcode that can do a blast upward of 400/second. However services like Twilio the output is just 1/second - now i am unsure if its Twilio that is throttling the service or if its actually the limitation of the technology and whether that will change or not. I hope it does as sending out to 5000 recipients is going to take over an hour! That's providing you have a system in place that doesnt time out whilst trying to complete this...

    It seems shortcodes are without a doubt better for much larger group of recipients whereas long codes are suitable for small blasts or sporadic messaging. If i am not mistaken Twilio caps each longcode to 1000 recipients. The alternative would be to use multiple long codes... but that would be a custom approach in itself.

    Both long code and short code have pros and cons, as well as major cost differences and pricing structures - however each have their place and i think being a mobile marketer and offering these type of services its really your job to act as a consultant and make the call as to which would be more beneficial to the client - like with everything i cant stress enough how important it is to know just not the tip of the iceberg, or enough to "just get by", but instead to fully understand what you are selling as well as the the alternatives - i find too many people get themselves in a bind because really they don't know what they are doing or selling. Taking the time to research these types of services will in the long run be more beneficial to you and your customer.

    Hope that helps

    Jay
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  • Profile picture of the author Quentin
    Working with lots of different businesses it seems like a lot of the discussion is about "might be" situations.

    Looking at my stats most of my clients have between 200 to 700 on their lists so can easily get out a message quickly.

    A short code is really for bulk SMS like football games, voting etc where you need to blast a lot at once. Having said this it is like having one list unless you want to buy a lot of different short codes.

    Longcodes on the other hand will allow you to segment your lists into a number of different elements like for a restaurant you could have one longcode but use different keywords and create a breakfast, lunch and dinner list.

    You could have a newspaper add, magazine,radio add and flyer add all using the same longcode but different keywords which will help the business work out their ROI off the different campaigns.

    Its already been stated that longcodes are pure sms and have best delivery rate as short codes all have to be registers and you may get a lot of non deliverable messages.

    As with everything in marketing it is not one or the other but using the right system for your client.

    Quentin
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    • Profile picture of the author zenyatta
      Originally Posted by Quentin View Post

      Working with lots of different businesses it seems like a lot of the discussion is about "might be" situations.

      Looking at my stats most of my clients have between 200 to 700 on their lists so can easily get out a message quickly.

      A short code is really for bulk SMS like football games, voting etc where you need to blast a lot at once. Having said this it is like having one list unless you want to buy a lot of different short codes.

      Longcodes on the other hand will allow you to segment your lists into a number of different elements like for a restaurant you could have one longcode but use different keywords and create a breakfast, lunch and dinner list.

      You could have a newspaper add, magazine,radio add and flyer add all using the same longcode but different keywords which will help the business work out their ROI off the different campaigns.

      Its already been stated that longcodes are pure sms and have best delivery rate as short codes all have to be registers and you may get a lot of non deliverable messages.

      As with everything in marketing it is not one or the other but using the right system for your client.

      Quentin

      Hi Quentin,

      Do you use Yeez? How does their delivery rate compare with Twilio. If it is also 1/text per second then it would take 2 hours to send to your customers with a 700 person list. I work with a lot of restaurants and if it takes 2 hours to cover my list I have missed the dinner rush.

      Regarding the longcodes and using extra keywords - is there a reason you can't use extra keywords with the short codes to accomplish the same thing?

      Can you please elaborate on your statement "all have to be registers and you may get a lot of non deliverable messages" I don't understand what you mean or why the short code would have more undelivered messages.
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      • Profile picture of the author scarab
        Originally Posted by zenyatta View Post

        Hi Quentin,

        Do you use Yeez? How does their delivery rate compare with Twilio. If it is also 1/text per second then it would take 2 hours to send to your customers with a 700 person list. I work with a lot of restaurants and if it takes 2 hours to cover my list I have missed the dinner rush.

        Regarding the longcodes and using extra keywords - is there a reason you can't use extra keywords with the short codes to accomplish the same thing?

        Can you please elaborate on your statement "all have to be registers and you may get a lot of non deliverable messages" I don't understand what you mean or why the short code would have more undelivered messages.
        Is the math right on this? I might be wrong(quite often I am) but my division shows that is 60 messages a minute, it would take 11.7 minutes to sent 700 text messages on Twilio.
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        • Profile picture of the author zenyatta
          Originally Posted by scarab View Post

          Is the math right on this? I might be wrong(quite often I am) but my division shows that is 60 messages a minute, it would take 11.7 minutes to sent 700 text messages on Twilio.
          Hi Scarab,

          Sorry about that, you are right - my bad. I should stop trying to do math late at night. I could work with Twilio's 11.7 minutes, but the hour+ delivery rate wouldn't work for the strategies that most of my clients are using.

          PS Next time I will use a calculator.

          Zen
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  • Profile picture of the author ASUService
    GREAT Thread! I think the debate on this will be around for a long long time ... remember "Should I send html emails or not?"

    IMHO the cost and time to get everything setup is the main downfall of short codes. I can have a client setup and ready to send in hours at the most and the cost is really nothing worth mentioning. Additionally the keywords are virtually endless.

    I'll also hazard a guess that over the long term short code reputation will fall. IMHO long codes will not suffer this issue.

    Just my $.02 and based more on gut feeling than actual facts.
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    The LAST SMS Platform You'll Ever Need! Easy Money!

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  • Profile picture of the author Sebulba
    Originally Posted by Joshua N. Rabon View Post

    Most people are touting short codes over long codes. Only a few people think like I think.

    1. 5 extra numbers couldn't possibly limit response if the offer is great.
    Agreed. And if you offer a Dial the number and press one it is easier than a short code.
    2. Short codes severely limit keyword usage.
    Super agreed
    3. For some reason short codes cost more on most platforms.
    Cuz it cost over $1000 a month for a short code
    4. A provider can change or discontinue short codes causing
    albeit minor but annoying hiccups.
    Yes, and someone can abuse the shortcode and get it banned form a carrier, Ouch for your client ,and you were not at fault
    5. More keywords allows you to organize & track campaigns better (not sure if this is true it just seems logical).
    Yes
    6. A long code would be better for branding because people see multiple companies using the same short code and might be confused.
    True
    7. Maybe (just thought of this) a 5 digit number is a lot easier for people to remember ( I don't know ) but since one sends out the prompt to text for a discount, memorizing the # isn't that important.
    Absolutely, they only use it once, and again if you just do a "Call XXX.XXX.XXXX and press one" it's way easier that texting a message to a shortcode.

    What are your thoughts on this?
    My thoughts,
    Seb
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  • Profile picture of the author Quentin
    Hi zenyatta

    Before I start I am not SMS expert so I will just put it out there first.

    We use a few different systems and yes Yeez is the one we use for US and Canada.

    From what I understand the cheaper SMS providers do not use true SMS but pass it through a server like an email so the deliverable rate is quite low though cheap.

    Also from what I understand is that a shortcode has to be registered with the individual carriers so a lot of the smaller carriers will not do this and they make up 40 to 60 percent of the market mainly non city carriers. Also shortcodes are not shared so like domain names you have to be good to get a good small one as the market increases.

    Short code - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The downside of longcodes is that they only send 1000 per hour however from what I have seen this would be a pretty decent list with more than a thousand.

    Shortcodes tend to be one big list however longcodes with keywords would probably break that 1000 into 3 or 4 smaller targeted lists.

    The other point is that it is just desperate marketing for smaller niches to text when you dont have enough customers. I don't know about you but I very rarely go to a restaurant on my own so to send me a text at say midday saying I can come in and get a free desert or something does not win me over.

    For my clients I usually go through the customers seating stats for the week and see the low times and send out a message either the day or afternoon before so they can organize a group, tell their wife ect.

    If they don't have these stats for their business then get them to start.

    Another thing we do is then segment their list with keywords into say lunch, dinner and casual or business.

    So for example we did a promotion with one the other day and promoted in between times for business people where we promoted times in between meals for coffee and cake with free wifi for their business meeting. It went quite well and should grow over time.

    SMS is all about marketing and this should all be planned not knee jerk reactions to low numbers. You want to build a responsive list for your clients and add different and interesting promotions for them.

    Hope this helps a bit and this is just what I have found out from my research.

    It seems there is a lot of mis information out there and bad marketing practices with people just trying to get the quick buck.

    Quentin
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    • Profile picture of the author zenyatta
      Originally Posted by Quentin View Post

      Hi zenyatta

      Before I start I am not SMS expert so I will just put it out there first.

      We use a few different systems and yes Yeez is the one we use for US and Canada.

      From what I understand the cheaper SMS providers do not use true SMS but pass it through a server like an email so the deliverable rate is quite low though cheap.

      Also from what I understand is that a shortcode has to be registered with the individual carriers so a lot of the smaller carriers will not do this and they make up 40 to 60 percent of the market mainly non city carriers. Also shortcodes are not shared so like domain names you have to be good to get a good small one as the market increases.

      Short code - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

      The downside of longcodes is that they only send 1000 per hour however from what I have seen this would be a pretty decent list with more than a thousand.

      Shortcodes tend to be one big list however longcodes with keywords would probably break that 1000 into 3 or 4 smaller targeted lists.

      The other point is that it is just desperate marketing for smaller niches to text when you dont have enough customers. I don't know about you but I very rarely go to a restaurant on my own so to send me a text at say midday saying I can come in and get a free desert or something does not win me over.

      For my clients I usually go through the customers seating stats for the week and see the low times and send out a message either the day or afternoon before so they can organize a group, tell their wife ect.

      If they don't have these stats for their business then get them to start.

      Another thing we do is then segment their list with keywords into say lunch, dinner and casual or business.

      So for example we did a promotion with one the other day and promoted in between times for business people where we promoted times in between meals for coffee and cake with free wifi for their business meeting. It went quite well and should grow over time.

      SMS is all about marketing and this should all be planned not knee jerk reactions to low numbers. You want to build a responsive list for your clients and add different and interesting promotions for them.

      Hope this helps a bit and this is just what I have found out from my research.

      It seems there is a lot of mis information out there and bad marketing practices with people just trying to get the quick buck.

      Quentin

      Thanks for the info Quentin!

      Regarding long vs short codes and keywords - you mention that with the long codes you use multiple keywords to segment lists - we do the same thing with short codes - so we have lists for lunch, dinner, and weekend customers.

      I agree with you that SMS is a powerful marketing tool that needs to be planned and used wisely. What I have found is that when it comes to people eating, especially for lunch it seems to be an emotionally driven decision. Its 11:30 and their stomach starts growling and they make a quick decision about what sounds good to eat at that moment.

      So to capture that potential business and also help the restaurant fill more tables this is how we approach it. Most restaurants are fine between 12-1 so we push out a broadcast text at 11:30 to say 500-1000 customers instantly. It has a mobile coupon or mobile ad linked to it in our "electronic wallet" so when the customer sees that juicy cheese burger their decision is drawn towards our client.

      Then we also offer 10% off for 1 person, 20% off for 2 people, or 30% off for 3 or more people. This helps with the viral nature of the offer and before you know it the whole office group is coming in at 1. We or the restaurant owner can also push the coupon out to Facebook to get new friends to optin as well.

      So the restaurant owner loves filling up all his tables between 1-3 and will gladly step over that dime to pick up that dollar by getting 3+ people instead of just 1 and also rewarding his loyal customer base with a 30% discount. 70% of 3+ diners is a lot better than 100% of 0 diners. This is why I believe having the ability to send 100s or thousands of texts immediately is such a huge benefit, especially with restaurant clients.

      The different types of offers are as endless as your creativity!!

      Zenyatta
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      • Profile picture of the author SirThomas
        Originally Posted by zenyatta View Post

        So the restaurant owner loves filling up all his tables between 1-3 and will gladly step over that dime to pick up that dollar by getting 3+ people instead of just 1 and also rewarding his loyal customer base with a 30% discount. 70% of 3+ diners is a lot better than 100% of 0 diners. This is why I believe having the ability to send 100s or thousands of texts immediately is such a huge benefit, especially with restaurant clients.

        The different types of offers are as endless as your creativity!!

        Zenyatta
        Two questions here:

        1. What types of restaurants are the best prospect for text service?
        2. What type gets the best results from text campaigns?


        Thomas
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        • Profile picture of the author zenyatta
          Originally Posted by SirThomas View Post

          Two questions here:

          1. What types of restaurants are the best prospect for text service?
          2. What type gets the best results from text campaigns?


          Thomas
          Hi Thomas,

          The best restaurants to work with are ones that offer coupons or have worked with one of the daily deal sites previously. It really doesn't matter whether they are pizza joints or high end restaurants as long as they are willing to give their customers a deal. Since we can replicate a Groupon offer with our Facebook integrated platform without the restaurant owner having to pay 30-50% to Groupon they love us. So we teach them how to setup campaigns rewarding their loyal customers with a juicy offer that will get them to opt in and then we can market about once a week after that. Any business that has frequent repeat customers is ideal for SMS Marketing.

          Zenyatta
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  • Profile picture of the author Mary Wilhite
    Short codes are often associated with automated services.Long codes are phone numbers enabled to send and receive text messages.thanks
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  • Profile picture of the author Quentin
    That's another excellent strategy Zenyatta.

    I guess you have to test your market because when we did it that way did not get a great result but I guess it would also depend on the type of restaurant etc. The one we have been working with is a little up market.

    Quentin
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  • Profile picture of the author Jay Moreno
    it would take 11.7 minutes if using twilio direct since they limit the output to 1sms/second - but i think yeez is indicating they limit their output to 600/hr so that would be at least 1hr for first 600 messages and then whatever it takes for the other - 100messages @ 600/hr that works out around 10 a minute so that would be 1hr and 10 mins total theoretically for 700sms...
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  • Profile picture of the author SirThomas
    Originally Posted by Joshua N. Rabon View Post

    Most people are touting short codes over long codes. Only a few people think like I think.

    1. 5 extra numbers couldn't possibly limit response if the offer is great.

    What are your thoughts on this?
    If your ten digit phone number (longcode) is easy enough, there should be no problem at all. In reality, most phone numbers will be local, so people have no need to memorize the first three digits, because it's their own area code... You want to have those remaining 7 digits be somewhat memorable though :-)

    It really matters only when you advertise your number on radio or TV...


    Thomas
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  • Profile picture of the author TWalker
    Yes a local number is normally just 7 digits really. And in my area I also have some memory of what the typical 1st 3 digits (prefixes) normally are 937 and 808 is common. Most locals do.

    Now what is interesting is this: Im no memory expert here but I think it is easier to remember 2 shorter number than a long single string. (I've studied memory courses)

    Ex. 937-4221 is easier to remember than 9374221 or maybe even 937422 (6 digits)

    or even a 5 digit 93742

    Memory works in pictures and short bits of info. You start increasing numbers in a single string and it gets exponentialy hard for the typical person to remember.

    Why do you think we all use 10 digit phone numbers broken into 3 pieces? Its easier.

    2 short bits is better than one long bit of info. Especially if 1 or 2 of those short bits are already familiar such as the area code and prefixes of local numbers.

    So the assumption that short codes are easier to remember doesn't fly with me.

    Being a local long code lover I can still digress a bit and give the short coders some advice. Break your short codes into two pieces and it will be as easy or easier to remember.

    5 digit code: 94495 is not as good as 94 495 at least as far as I understand memory.
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  • Profile picture of the author SirThomas
    Thank you Zenyatta! One day, I will have to look into your Lime system. I just have too many project going on at the same time ;-)

    Restaurants/bars are probably the best prospects for SMS. My only problem is that I'm not too sure I'd like to work with restaurants. Constant changes, updates, teaching their staff, websites, social media, reputation... You really need to charge accordingly, but only few might be willing to pay?

    I might be wrong here, but that's what I remember from my dealings with bars, clubs and some restaurants. It seems like you always have to do something. You can never relax and just collect your money! LOL


    Thomas
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    • Profile picture of the author zenyatta
      Originally Posted by SirThomas View Post

      Thank you Zenyatta! One day, I will have to look into your Lime system. I just have too many project going on at the same time ;-)

      Restaurants/bars are probably the best prospects for SMS. My only problem is that I'm not too sure I'd like to work with restaurants. Constant changes, updates, teaching their staff, websites, social media, reputation... You really need to charge accordingly, but only few might be willing to pay?

      I might be wrong here, but that's what I remember from my dealings with bars, clubs and some restaurants. It seems like you always have to do something. You can never relax and just collect your money! LOL


      Thomas
      What I do is setup 12 campaigns/mobile coupons at the start that I schedule weekly for 3 months so I can try to set and forget. The owners can also send 1 or 2 special deals a month and with full video tutorials you can direct them there if you are too busy. When they see the traffic walking into there restaurant and coupons being redeemed they are happy to pay me since so far they see about 500-1000% ROI.
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  • Profile picture of the author zenyatta
    Other good SMS prospects are day spas. hair stylists, dentists, massage therapists, chiropractors, oil change/auto repair, nail salons, tanning salons, auto detail, tattoo shops, barbers, bowling alleys, paint ball places, those family fun centers with the go carts, amusement parks, carnivals, movie theaters, live theater, bands can use to notify fans, gyms, yoga studios, martial arts studios, pilates and any other exercise studios, boot camps, poetry slams, charity events, museums, golf courses, galleries, florists, doctors, dinner cruises, dry cleaners, wineries, ... Just to name a few off the top of my head. SMS Marketing and the use of mobile coupons can be useful to many businesses. If they use coupons, set appointments, or have repeat customers then they can be good candidates. SMS with mobile coupons is extremely flexible and profitable, limited only by your creativity.
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