its been 2 weeks and no sales reps hired yet.

50 replies
I posted a ad on craigslist and I have gotten many people interested in the spot but when I send all the (training) information they do not reply back. I do not know if they are taking action or they just dropped it, however it would of been nice to let me know.

I really can see how sales rep's will help my business and I am waiting with my fingers in my mouth for one.

any advice on getting some and keeping the interested?
#hired #reps #sales #weeks
  • Profile picture of the author sparro
    Hiring commissioned reps can be frustrating. They need a lot of hand holding in the beginning. They can be sort of like clients. If you make an initial contact with a client then send them all your info many times they will not call you back. I would send them a teaser of some kind and set a call to discuss training. 5 minutes prior to the call send them the information and review on the call, that way you have an opportunity to get a feel for their excitement and set up another progress call. Keep them on a short leash until they make their first sale. Then they will be convinced that the possibilities are endless.
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    • Profile picture of the author Bruce NewMedia
      Originally Posted by sparro View Post

      Hiring commissioned reps can be frustrating. They need a lot of hand holding in the beginning. They can be sort of like clients. If you make an initial contact with a client then send them all your info many times they will not call you back. I would send them a teaser of some kind and set a call to discuss training. 5 minutes prior to the call send them the information and review on the call, that way you have an opportunity to get a feel for their excitement and set up another progress call. Keep them on a short leash until they make their first sale. Then they will be convinced that the possibilities are endless.
      Matthew, this is awesome advice!....years ago I had a client in the lecture business who was always in a state of 'recruiting' for sales reps. Everything Sparro has said, she (my client), found to be true. Many on wf will suggest/imply getting commissioned sales reps is easy -- it's not if you want good ones.
      _____
      Bruce
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      • Profile picture of the author Shea
        I've had the exact same issue. Literally probably 75 or so have been interested and it seems like I'll have no problem having about 5 or so calling at any given time..yet it somehow never ends up happening. They say they're calling a day or two if I'm lucky then are never heard from again. They also have a very high instance of amazing emergencies making them disappear for days.
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        • Profile picture of the author jimbo13
          You are both trying to go a cheap route.

          This does not pay in the long term.

          You both need a professional appt setter or pre-sales person who is unlikely to be hanging around something like Craigslist if it is anything like Gumtree in the UK.

          Your additional costs will be more than offset by the time you will save chasing, interviewing, re-recruiting etcc etc unless you value your time at $0

          Dan
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          • Profile picture of the author dmramirez
            Originally Posted by jimbo13 View Post

            You are both trying to go a cheap route.

            This does not pay in the long term.

            You both need a professional appt setter or pre-sales person who is unlikely to be hanging around something like Craigslist if it is anything like Gumtree in the UK.

            Your additional costs will be more than offset by the time you will save chasing, interviewing, re-recruiting etcc etc unless you value your time at $0

            Dan
            Dan is right. Appointment setting by phone covers more ground than leaving them to their own devices. If they get slapped in the face the first day, they might not try again. BUT if they know they have appointments to go to AND the people they talk to know they're coming, they'll have a higher chance of success which will keep the carrot on the stick.
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            • Profile picture of the author dericks3
              100% correct if you give these sales reps a direction to go in by setting up appointments for them with local businesses in their area you will have alot more success than just leaving it up to them to get the leads and book their own appointments.

              I had great success for over 18 years going this route in my own business.

              My sales guys were commission based only,we would telemarket for the customers and provide the sales guys with the leads.

              The only job they had was to go on the appointment and close the sale.

              My advice would be to supply the leads, you will have guys lining up in my experience.

              Hope this helps

              Doug
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              • Profile picture of the author dmramirez
                This is a preemptive statement, as I'm not sure if you're worried about expense or not when it comes to having an appointment setting service or doing it on your own.

                PM me if you're in need of a service. There's a billion out there, but it's hard to find a good one with guarantees that doesn't cost too much.
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by brucerby View Post

        Matthew, this is awesome advice!....years ago I had a client in the lecture business who was always in a state of 'recruiting' for sales reps. Everything Sparro has said, she (my client), found to be true. Many on wf will suggest/imply getting commissioned sales reps is easy -- it's not if you want good ones.
        _____
        Bruce
        I second this! Awesome advice!

        On another note...

        I dont think anyone suggests that hiring commission sales reps is easy... in fact I personally TOTALLY support the hourly idea for best results unless you are "selling" a work opportunity like Amway, or many others... There are legal terms for "Opportunity sales" it truly is its own category.

        If you are hiring on commission... then maybe this post will have benefit...

        Sales organizations keeps ad running and stay hiring at all time. Most Sales managers jobs are half about training and keeping up quota, and half about hiring people because thats another aspect of keeping the quota.

        ALL sales, jobs are like a swinging door... Just because we are on the internet doesnt change the natural laws you see all around you.

        It takes more effort than just putting an ad on craglists and expecting magic to happen. In all business, you have to really mean business and go full force getting your ad all over the place... you are gonna hire about 1 out of 5-10 applicants , so you need more than 3-4 applicants per month coming in... you need at least that many per DAY> Even in the call centers I have managed through the years, some of them established 25 year old companies with a hundred employees... We tried to keep a minimum of 100-200 applicants per month coming in.

        Your sales people are more valuable than your product itself... to prove that: You can change products, and your sales people will still do well without your current product offering being necessary.

        Your sales people and ability to hire and train are even more valuable than your BUSINESS MODEL. If you have a good sales force you can live without the business model, no matter how proud you are of it... without them, it doesnt work... but WITH them it works... and without IT, they still work.

        But yes, commission jobs are a swinging door...

        Someone will make a couple of sales then fall off, another will never make a sale, another will be hot for a month then fall off...

        Your salespeople have a fulltime job selling your product, and you have a full time job keeping people selling and hiring, until you have worked to the place where you can afford someone else to do that for you.

        At one point your job is to create a company, and at the next point your job is to create a sales organization for your company. It wont be any easier or harder for an internet marketer than it is for an offline business owner...

        If someone is going to Ask me to work on straight commission in the offline world, they had better have a nice office with successful people in it... I need to be convinced if you arent offering any kind of advance...

        So alot of hiring people is this: "How convincing are you"?

        Does your presentation inspire confidence? Is there anything about your opportunity that would make a person feel shady? Are you offering the appropriate commission structure?

        Think of your "self"... Would YOU respond to your opportunity... Would you feel confident about taking a job with yourself?

        Here's how I learned this...

        As a young phone salesperson, I have walked into job interviews where they didnt have anything but a card table and some index cards sitting there... and then I walked into other job interviews where the office was plush and beautiful and people looked successful, and I felt much more confident about working for them...

        Now, Im not assuming thats the case here at all... Just talking about something I have learned while the opportunity is here...

        Later when I started my own company with my brother... I insisted that we have one of the nicest offices we could find with the most plush surroundings... and I took average telemarketers who didnt think too highly of themselves, and I sat them in the middle of a plush business complex where they saw people in suits going by everyday, and there was a common area with cafes... and really gave them the "Business Atmosphere..."...

        Guess what? Those telemarketer could not be run off from their job with wild horses. They were proud to show their families where they worked. Their confidence was sky high because of the surrounding and how they "saw" themselves working for me. The surroundings were as good as the pay, and the pride of coming to a place you are proud to associate with everyday.

        In short, they felt they had moved up in the world. I had them working on STRAIGHT commission at phones, and they upheld themselves like such professionals, just BEAMING with pride.

        So we grew...prosperous, VERY... and I decided to open another office across town... Only this time, I didnt go for "Plush"... and I got a cheap office in a cheap office building, in a cheap area of town. Most of the other offices in the building were vacant... I started hiring people, but I couldnt keep anyone, and people werent performing... and here and there I would send someone to the plush office for training by the successful TMS...and they would come back to me all excited about their with sales in hand...

        You get the picture...

        Basically the cheap office sucked alot of money because no one was succeeding and their confidence wasnt as high, or self image...

        Here's my point:

        "You have to know that the impression you make on your prospects, even HIREE's, is important'.

        Again Im not saying there is an issue here, just sharing my experience.

        "I" can personally work at a kitchen table, but I cant hire people and ask them to do it and perform for me with full confidence.

        Internet marketers tend to think they shouldnt have to work as hard at hiring as offline people... But its not true.

        Here's the difference, it doesnt COST as much to make a big impression on the internet... But be sure "You still have to make a big impression".

        If you are just thinking you can throw an opportunity out there and people are just stupid if they dont take it... then thats the wrong approach, commission salesman dont owe you anything, and their talent is in demand.

        So, again, that may not be anything relevant to your problem but very relevant to the subject here...

        Its important to ask "Is there anything about my hiring system that would make a person feel shady, and what can I do to create a presentation that instills more confidence"?

        If people arent running to your opportunity like wild horses, there must be a reason... What is it?

        In short... Make as good an impression (as was brilliantly stated in another post above) on your employees as you would a customer.

        Your employees have to have confidence in you...so do the people reading your hiring material and ads... The internet isnt a magic button.

        Now on the other hand...again, it doesnt take a $10,000 down payment on a plush o0ffice to make an internet presentation look good... it just takes a good web designer and some good ad copy that looks professional... and a good follow up email package that lets them know you are serious about business.

        Remember, when hiring someone, before they prove themselves to you, you have to prove yourself to them first, and earn their respect.

        That doesnt mean you have to be flashy ... you have to do two things

        A: Turn them on
        B: Then simply "Just dont let them see anything that turns them back off". Lol

        As stated above, once they realize they can do it, and they get PAID, then its a different ballgame. You have to be as professional hiring them as any other business person out there has to be, and the challenge you face is also the same.

        On another note... Im not sure Craigslist is the best place to find serious people... but I may be wrong.

        This is not meant to discourage and make you think its got to be hard... Its rather to prepare you that working from the internet isnt a magic bullet that gets you around all the timeless principles... Just think of it as if YOU were being approached by YOU.

        Another question... Does your system work? Or are you hiring people and basically wanting them to prove your system for you?

        One sided energy comes across loud and clear. If your employees ever think that you are expecting THEM to make your business work, as opposed to having a working business and offering them an opportunity in it... you are sunk.

        I say this because its rampant, the belief that people should just knock your door down... they will if you do it right... but if you arent doing it right... Its not gonna happen. Would you entrust your families mortgage to the guy thats emailing you based on what you see?

        Thats the question in their mind.

        Lots of psychological factors that are covered in several reports around here...

        You have to make a person feel like its a privileged to participate in your opportunity... and I personally can draw a ton of traffic with these things... but I have more realistic expectations than most. I understand that I have to bet on myself and invest in myself, if not money then time and hard work to get the result I want. I understand that I have to check and double check my system... and make sure that all the elements are there...

        Most peoples hiring issues are because they come across as shady... and they take job seekers and opportunity seekers for granted, throwing just any ole work opportunity out there, most of the time they havent even made any sales themselves off the system they are trying to sell others...

        Thats shady if you arent paying something up front you cant expect people to test your system and make your business work, its energetically not even karmically correct.

        Now I have hired people and taped 50 dollar bills to the wall, on a pitch I knew would work but hadnt even tried.

        I hired them all to start the same day and I gave them a pep talk and the pitch and I taped some 50's to the wall and said the first person to get a sale gets to take a 50 off the wall... and it worked and everyone learned the pitch that day and the room was humming... BUT, I wasnt bargaining with empty pockets either... I had something to show.

        Now think, this is human nature... Im not saying you cant do it otherwise... but it will be a rough shoe string start... and you should expect that it isnt going to be easy at first, as it isnt...

        You can draw ALL kinds of talent... But what are they seeing when they get there?

        So in short, make sure all the elements of your system look good and there's nothing about your plan that could turn a person off...

        Last note; Trust me, if people respond to your ad, they are turned on already... so if they arent responding back...it means whatever you sent them didnt perpetuate that feeling...

        So what do you do?

        You do what we all do... You tweak it.

        Anybody who wants to be a "boss"... has to "be" it. Just because we are on the internet doesnt mean you dont have to be just as talented as any other hiring manager and have you elements flowing together. Anything "choppy" about your presentation and a person wont waste their time.

        UNLESS.... you are working the numbers and doing alot of advertising and drawing applicants by the hundreds, which you can do...

        So just "do it". I had to, anyone else who does it has to...

        Last note:

        Again, I dont think this is the case here necessarily... but with MOST would be hiring managers on the internet... They take the applicants for granted and think you can hand them a handful of __________ and they will still work for you just because you have a company or an idea...

        No, you have to earn their respect through your correspondence and make them WANT to work for you.

        Thats just one aspect... there are alot of things that could be talked about on this subject...

        Also my opinions here are subjective as well to the different variables people experience, overall though this is good advice I think, and will be beneficial to read... sorry about the long post.

        In a nutshell - Hiring is possible.... hiring HUNDREDS of people is possible- but you just cant take it for granted - you have to put in the same blood sweat and tears any business person does to grow your business , and endure the same hiring frustrations... and you have to hold yourself to the same standards you would a hiring manager.

        a hiring manager might say "Im having this issue or that issue" - But the point to YOU is this "Look guy , can you do whatever it takes to get the job done or not"?

        You have to ask YOURSELF that, and if you want to have a successful sales organization then you have to be willing to answer "Yes Sir" and dig in and place 50 more ads if you have to. Whatever it takes to succeed.

        Its not that these business models around here dont work, its that people expect that its supposed to be easy.

        Listen, starting a brick laying business WORKS... No need to prove that to anybody, but that doesnt mean YOU are going to make it work. You have to have every bit as much Balls as the guy who gave you the business plan had to have.

        In short, hiring can be frustrating and it can also be victorious, but you have to settle yourself in for the long haul because it isnt something you turn on and off, you have to be dedicated to being a good recruiter and developing your mastery of hiring... Just like playing guitar, it may take some discipline to learn - but it PAYS better!!!

        This post isnt necessarily to you Matthew, if it came across as hardcore - the subject you brought up though inspired some passion here.

        Im out.

        Hope this helps someone.

        -JD
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  • Profile picture of the author Matthewgen
    Thanks I will keep that in mind.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
    Hiring sales people for commission positions isn't easy for sure. Personally I have hired and fired over 200 people in my brick and mortar career and I've learned a few things along the way.

    1. If they need hand holding don't hire them.
    2. If they show any shred of doubt don't hire them.
    3. If they can't or don't want to get off their asses and come for an interview don't hire them.
    4. Don't send them anything about the position via emails.
    5. Don't tell them anything over the phone, you don't get hired for a job in the real world over the phone.
    6. Don't make it easy to get hired to work for you.

    That's just a start and should help you weed out the losers.
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    • Profile picture of the author rsteadm2
      Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

      Hiring sales people for commission positions isn't easy for sure. Personally I have hired and fired over 200 people in my brick and mortar career and I've learned a few things along the way.

      1. If they need hand holding don't hire them.
      2. If they show any shred of doubt don't hire them.
      3. If they can't or don't want to get off their asses and come for an interview don't hire them.
      4. Don't send them anything about the position via emails.
      5. Don't tell them anything over the phone, you don't get hired for a job in the real world over the phone.
      6. Don't make it easy to get hired to work for you.

      That's just a start and should help you weed out the losers.
      I couldn't agree more. Sometimes people call themselves sales people but have no real experience selling.

      If the person is hungry and trained, they will be pushing you for what the need. Unfortunately, you can not train desire. The one thing that a LOT of 'sales people' lack.

      Ray
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      • Profile picture of the author BaySocial
        Folks, I can not PM, do to my building posts, but if anyone has appointment setting services to recommend, I would love to talk to them. Please PM me if that is possible on your end I would really appreciate it!

        Thanks
        Mike
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        • Profile picture of the author BaySocial
          As for the commission side of things, I tend to agree with IdeaFool. I have heard from many that hiring commission only, you get what you pay for. That is why the financial companies have the worst record with sales reps because they pay them nothing with the promise to get to six figures in a few years, yet they burn through 98% of reps using this method to find that 2% that can sell. However, I believe that most in this business don't have the money to pay Base+. So what is the commission structure to best bridge this gap? I think I will start another thread on this subject, but thoughts would be great!
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          • Profile picture of the author mrbueno
            Originally Posted by termn8er View Post

            As for the commission side of things, I tend to agree with IdeaFool. I have heard from many that hiring commission only, you get what you pay for. That is why the financial companies have the worst record with sales reps because they pay them nothing with the promise to get to six figures in a few years, yet they burn through 98% of reps using this method to find that 2% that can sell. However, I believe that most in this business don't have the money to pay Base+. So what is the commission structure to best bridge this gap? I think I will start another thread on this subject, but thoughts would be great!
            We are paying a $1200/mo guaranteed draw. It isn't the worlds greatest pay, but it lets my people focus on sales rather than worry about bills. At a 20% commission for all sales with a $50/sale bonus once they meet their draw level it adds up to good money for most people.

            Basically, you need to figure out your profit margins before you can setup your pay structure. I try to keep all my services at least 60% margin. That means I set my base prices a bit higher so my sales staff has room to negotiate.

            So, let's say I want to pay a $250 commission and it costs me $175 for a site design and I want this product to have a 60% profit margin. So my selling price will be $1062. I move up to $1200 to give my staff room to deal down to $1000 at most (yes I know this is a little less than 60% margin but hosting fees will offset it). This gives me $575 profit/site worst case scenario not including hosting fees. Two sites sold is almost break even on the sales persons draw for me, but they must sell 6 sites to make more than the $1200 draw. Which is $3500 profit to the company.

            A bit off topic after here:

            Need to figure out your profit margins? I could bore you with math, but here is a simple calc you can use instead. Profit Margin Calculator - Financial Calculators from Dinkytown.net Add your cost for site design to the commission you plan on paying and put that in Wholesale Cost. Now put 60% in gross margin and hit enter. This is what you should charge to make yourself a decent profit while figuring out a good commission for your team.
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        • Profile picture of the author mrbueno
          We have been using appointment setters for quite a while for a much higher priced product (starting around $1000/mo on a 36 month contract) than our Web Development services for micro-businesses (starting around $500 - $4000 one time and $30/mo).

          I have been in business for 17 years and I still like to go out on my own and sell. It is a rush that is hard to beat. I can say from experience as a team leader and sales person, being able to focus purely on sales and not appointment settings is incredibly freeing.

          Having appointment setters that are different than your sales staff also has the benefit of making you look like a larger organization and thereby a safer company to work with.

          I am currently looking into hiring appointment setters for my micro-business side, but I am not sure of the compensation I should be offering. Also, I would like to know of any appointment setting service that someone here has had success with. Thanks for the advice in advance.
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          • Profile picture of the author PatrickP
            Originally Posted by mrbueno View Post


            I have been in business for 17 years and I still like to go out on my own and sell. It is a rush that is hard to beat. I can say from experience as a team leader and sales person, being able to focus purely on sales and not appointment settings is incredibly freeing.

            THIS is the sort of person you need. He loves what he does, of course he isn't available but most people hate having to sell and are horrible at it.

            Most employees dislike sales people so there is no way they are going to be good at it. A good salesperson either already has a job and if they don't they mostly likely will be scooped up very quickly by someone who is willing to pay base plus commission.
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    • Profile picture of the author Bennette
      Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

      Hiring sales people for commission positions isn't easy for sure. Personally I have hired and fired over 200 people in my brick and mortar career and I've learned a few things along the way.

      1. If they need hand holding don't hire them.
      2. If they show any shred of doubt don't hire them.
      3. If they can't or don't want to get off their asses and come for an interview don't hire them.
      4. Don't send them anything about the position via emails.
      5. Don't tell them anything over the phone, you don't get hired for a job in the real world over the phone.
      6. Don't make it easy to get hired to work for you.

      That's just a start and should help you weed out the losers.
      I agree Russ.

      I've worked in sales with all pay structures; draw +commission, salary +commission and commission only, before owning my own businesses.

      What I've seen in all the companies I worked with is you normally have 20% of the sales force making 80% of the money.

      I think if a person is in sales and you give them enough to cover their basic living expenses most would be content with that and not be as hungry (hence salary+commission).

      If I was to ever consider a draw + commission structure it would be a small amount for 90 days and would decline each month. By month 4 it would be commission only.

      I prefer commission only and I'll tell you why.
      Aren't we on commission only when we start our companies?
      If it's good enough for us, then it's good enough for sales reps.

      Just my .02
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      • Profile picture of the author mrbueno
        Originally Posted by Bennette;4507697
        I prefer commission only and I'll tell you why.
        [B

        Aren't we on commission only when we start our companies?
        [/B]If it's good enough for us, then it's good enough for sales reps.

        Just my .02
        If it was good enough for our sales reps, why would they need us?
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  • Profile picture of the author atrbiz
    I'll tell you from experience it's better to pay an appt setter to generate appts and you close the deal.

    I have 2 appt setters that work for me and I will run the appt and close the deal. I'm looking to add more appt setters to my team (hopefully up to 50 by next summer) and I'll have a few solid sales closers run the appts and close the deals (and pay them a %).

    But I'm definitely having great success with paying appt setters hourly. My revenue is over $10,000 per month now! It took me a a year to get setup and create a game plan (the same plan that's making me $10k+ per month). Now I'm riding that momentum.

    Good luck,
    Ahmad
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    • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
      Artbiz,

      That model will work for people who have no plans to scale their business. What will eventually happen to you is your business will be running you instead of you running your business.
      Its not sustainable for you to grow if your always the one making the sales. I know an SEO firm going through this right now.

      It might work for you now and that's ok but the moment you want to scale up you'll be forced to duplicate yourself and hire a sales force.

      Originally Posted by atrbiz View Post

      I'll tell you from experience it's better to pay an appt setter to generate appts and you close the deal.

      I have 2 appt setters that work for me and I will run the appt and close the deal. I'm looking to add more appt setters to my team (hopefully up to 50 by next summer) and I'll have a few solid sales closers run the appts and close the deals (and pay them a %).

      But I'm definitely having great success with paying appt setters hourly. My revenue is over $10,000 per month now! It took me a a year to get setup and create a game plan (the same plan that's making me $10k+ per month). Now I'm riding that momentum.

      Good luck,
      Ahmad
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      • Profile picture of the author atrbiz
        Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

        Artbiz,

        That model will work for people who have no plans to scale their business. What will eventually happen to you is your business will be running you instead of you running your business.
        Its not sustainable for you to grow if your always the one making the sales. I know an SEO firm going through this right now.

        It might work for you now and that's ok but the moment you want to scale up you'll be forced to duplicate yourself and hire a sales force.
        I agree, but this model has been working for me and bringing in new business. I'm also testing out other stuff and I do plan on hiring a few sales reps in the next few weeks because I want to grow my business to $100k+/mo and I know I can't do it all.

        - Ahmad
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  • Profile picture of the author IdeaFool
    I'm afraid I must respectfully disagree in part with Rus Sells in his post at #10. I recently left a position wherein I was asked to build and train a commission-only sales team using only free job posting sites such as kijiji, craigslist and the like. I failed miserably, and I HATE failing. Here is what I experienced:

    1. I was told NOT to give the name of the company or exactly what the company did in the ads I posted.
    2. I was not to be descriptive in the ad. I was only supposed to "tease" the prospect and then sell them when (and if) he came in for an interview.
    3. I was not supposed to explain what the company did or what the position entailed over the phone or via email. Again, I was supposed to get them in and then sell them.
    4. I was supposed to hire EVERYONE whom I happened to convince to interview, because the turn-over was so damned high. Most were high-schoolers who were too naive to know not to trust sensationalist ads.
    5. IF I was able to get the prospect in, and IF I was able to convince them to work for the company, and IF they actually reported for work, then I was supposed to train them to be sales pros. (Try teaching Spike the Multi-Pierced Wonder to sell to business owners and rural homeowners! But, hey, I was required to hire good ole' Spike!)

    The funny thing is I went outside the company and put up ads that broke practically all of these rules, as an experiment. I listed the company name, what the company did and sold, the commission structure and what to expect. I got VERY few calls, BUT the ones who did call were pros who knew the drill and actually did extremely well.

    The company wasn't happy because I couldn't get 20 of these pros. However, the 6 pros I did get wrote more business in 6 months than the average 20 (who rarely lasted more than a couple of weeks) they had at any one time did collectively over 2 and a half years. AND, my time was freed up so that I could actually support the sales team with what they needed instead of chasing the latest loser who wasn't smart enough to see through the bait-and-switch ads I was forced to post.

    My wife, on the other hand, works for a flooring company that only sells to multi-family properties such as apartment complexes. Her company pays her a small draw against commission. Because my wife doesn't have to worry about paying bills because she KNOWS she will at least have some money, she sells like crazy.

    I'm a huge proponent of offering a base+commission or a draw against commission. I've heard arguments against these structures such as, "Don't do that or these salesmen will just pocket the base or draw and won't work." Well, to me that sounds like a manager who is not doing his job. If a person uses this argument, that person doesn't respect people who work for him. And he is someone for whom I would rather not spend my time, energy and loyalty.

    I've also heard, "If you pay a base instead of straight commission, then the salesperson won't be as motivated to work." Bovine feces! Anyone who has been in sales knows that selling when desperate is damn near impossible. It's like trying to find love by looking for it. You rarely, if ever, will. You'll find love when you quit looking for it, and you'll sell best when you don't need the money.

    I can promise you that if you offer a draw or base+commission AND provide pre-set appointments, you will have a happy, productive and loyal sales team. If you want to do an experiment, post an ad on craigslist saying that you offer base PLUS commission and that you give 3-5 preset appointments per day. Describe your company and what it does. Don't give your phone number; just ask that resumes be emailed to the craigslist cloaked email address. Highlight the "BASE" part. Then let us know how many resumes you receive in a 24 hour period. I think you'll be surprised. (You don't actually need to hire anyone, because you don't actually offer a base and may not offer pre-set appointments. You can always call the applicant and tell them you hired someone else, but that you'd like to keep their resume for later. It's a bit gray hat, but this is an experiment.)

    I hope you'll forgive my rant here, but I am passionate about this area. A very wise man once told me, "If a company is not willing to invest in YOU, than you don't need to be working for that company."

    Peace and good luck. I'm anxious to read what you decide to do.
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    • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
      My post is about weeding out the undesirables before more information is given. Read the last line please.

      1. I never a said don't give the company name.
      2. I never said don't be descriptive in the employment ad, which btw is illegal.
      3. I did not say don't say what the company does, I said, don't discuss it. What the company does is IN the employment ad in the first place.

      Now on another note, If one must convince some one to come work for your company then perhaps something about the company just isn't right in the first place.

      Every one wanted to work for my company because of the way i crafted my employment ads, but I didn't want just "everyone" I wanted who I wanted and that's that. = )

      Originally Posted by IdeaFool View Post

      I'm afraid I must respectfully disagree in part with Rus Sells in his post at #10. I recently left a position wherein I was asked to build and train a commission-only sales team using only free job posting sites such as kijiji, craigslist and the like. I failed miserably, and I HATE failing. Here is what I experienced:

      1. I was told NOT to give the name of the company or exactly what the company did in the ads I posted.
      2. I was not to be descriptive in the ad. I was only supposed to "tease" the prospect and then sell them when (and if) he came in for an interview.
      3. I was not supposed to explain what the company did or what the position entailed over the phone or via email. Again, I was supposed to get them in and then sell them.
      4. I was supposed to hire EVERYONE whom I happened to convince to interview, because the turn-over was so damned high. Most were high-schoolers who were too naive to know not to trust sensationalist ads.
      5. IF I was able to get the prospect in, and IF I was able to convince them to work for the company, and IF they actually reported for work, then I was supposed to train them to be sales pros. (Try teaching Spike the Multi-Pierced Wonder to sell to business owners and rural homeowners! But, hey, I was required to hire good ole' Spike!)

      The funny thing is I went outside the company and put up ads that broke practically all of these rules, as an experiment. I listed the company name, what the company did and sold, the commission structure and what to expect. I got VERY few calls, BUT the ones who did call were pros who knew the drill and actually did extremely well.

      The company wasn't happy because I couldn't get 20 of these pros. However, the 6 pros I did get wrote more business in 6 months than the average 20 (who rarely lasted more than a couple of weeks) they had at any one time did collectively over 2 and a half years. AND, my time was freed up so that I could actually support the sales team with what they needed instead of chasing the latest loser who wasn't smart enough to see through the bait-and-switch ads I was forced to post.

      My wife, on the other hand, works for a flooring company that only sells to multi-family properties such as apartment complexes. Her company pays her a small draw against commission. Because my wife doesn't have to worry about paying bills because she KNOWS she will at least have some money, she sells like crazy.

      I'm a huge proponent of offering a base+commission or a draw against commission. I've heard arguments against these structures such as, "Don't do that or these salesmen will just pocket the base or draw and won't work." Well, to me that sounds like a manager who is not doing his job. If a person uses this argument, that person doesn't respect people who work for him. And he is someone for whom I would rather not spend my time, energy and loyalty.

      I've also heard, "If you pay a base instead of straight commission, then the salesperson won't be as motivated to work." Bovine feces! Anyone who has been in sales knows that selling when desperate is damn near impossible. It's like trying to find love by looking for it. You rarely, if ever, will. You'll find love when you quit looking for it, and you'll sell best when you don't need the money.

      I can promise you that if you offer a draw or base+commission AND provide pre-set appointments, you will have a happy, productive and loyal sales team. If you want to do an experiment, post an ad on craigslist saying that you offer base PLUS commission and that you give 3-5 preset appointments per day. Describe your company and what it does. Don't give your phone number; just ask that resumes be emailed to the craigslist cloaked email address. Highlight the "BASE" part. Then let us know how many resumes you receive in a 24 hour period. I think you'll be surprised. (You don't actually need to hire anyone, because you don't actually offer a base and may not offer pre-set appointments. You can always call the applicant and tell them you hired someone else, but that you'd like to keep their resume for later. It's a bit gray hat, but this is an experiment.)

      I hope you'll forgive my rant here, but I am passionate about this area. A very wise man once told me, "If a company is not willing to invest in YOU, than you don't need to be working for that company."

      Peace and good luck. I'm anxious to read what you decide to do.
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      • Profile picture of the author IdeaFool
        Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

        My post is about weeding out the undesirables before more information is given. Read the last line please.

        1. I never a said don't give the company name.
        2. I never said don't be descriptive in the employment ad, which btw is illegal.
        3. I did not say don't say what the company does, I said, don't discuss it. What the company does is IN the employment ad in the first place.

        Now on another note, If one must convince some one to come work for your company then perhaps something about the company just isn't right in the first place.

        Every one wanted to work for my company because of the way i crafted my employment ads, but I didn't want just "everyone" I wanted who I wanted and that's that. = )
        Nor did I say that YOU said any of those things. ;-) Those were just the things that I had to do for that idiot company I worked for, and those were the things that contributed to my failure to produce.

        Can you please tell me why you wouldn't discuss what the company does? Perhaps it's a semantics thing, but I'm not following you here.

        Additionally, I am unaware of any law codifying the content of an employment ad. I am VERY interested in learning more about that. Is that federal or specific to some state?

        Thank you!

        PS: Please do not mistake my disagreement with your post as any sort of personal attack. I can assure you that I meant no disrespect.
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  • Profile picture of the author Morphius
    And then we cry why we have such a high unemployment, or why everything gets to be outsourced. People don't want to work. I had the same exact issue.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
    but it lets my people focus on sales rather than worry about bills.
    You bring up a point that makes me want to share something else.

    I look for people who are closers and not just sales people.

    I had a guy that I trained for another company I was working for a long time ago. I'll never forget this because of his situation.

    He had to relocate and leave his family back home and wasn't getting any sales. I took him aside and after a few minutes I figured out that he was worried about his bills all the time. The thing is there was business every where! It was like picking cherries off a cherry tree, all one had to do was stand up and start picking.

    I told him, that his worry was being projected onto this prospects and they instinctively picked up on his desperation. What he needed to do was leave his worries at the door when he walked out of the house for the day because carrying them with him all day was negative.

    As soon as he did that he could concentrate on what his job was and his sales started flowing and his worry about bills ended.

    I'm not saying I'm right and every one else is wrong, its just MY perspective that if some one has to have a base plus commission for a job where pretty much "any" business is a potential client I don't want them. They are merely leaving themselves room for the inevitable failure they will experience in selling. They are thinking of NOT making sales instead of MAKING sales and that's why they want a base +.
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  • Profile picture of the author Matthewgen
    I am still not having any luck with getting people,

    I just got my first client recently so I don't have the money to spend on paying a base/draw + commission rate.

    if anyone knows a way to jump start my business, you can PM me.

    I need this to take off and away reading things that might help.
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    • Profile picture of the author vic1
      To get your business going, I strongly suggest partnering up with a brick and mortar marketing/advertising company.

      I work with two who are big in advertising specialties and printing; brochures and such and do it in house.

      They farm out all of their SEO stuff and when I met them, their main business did fine, the SEO stuff was costing them clients.

      They were using fairly big outfits that mainly automated the SEO and GP stuff and really did an awful job.

      I took them on and I'm not giving them any discounts either and we are turning away business.

      I'm a lot older and really don't want to work full time, I'd rather golf, but hooking up with these guys was the best thing I ever did.

      To close the partnering deal I used testimonials and my own websites. It wasn't a 1 call close, I had to work it a little and I wouldn't talk discount and gave nothing away.

      They were impressed with the confidence (I'm good at what I do) and we have been happily married ever since. I get 50% up front and depending on the deal, I bill them at completion or monthly.

      I've talked to a few other advertising companies who do their own SEO stuff and believe me, they have no idea what they are doing. They don't understand the work involved and would rather charge a low fee for something doesn't work then charge a higher fee for a successful campaign.

      Thank God for those guys, they keep people like me in business!

      Nobody is better at it then an experienced affiliate marketer as far as I'm concerned.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by Matthewgen View Post

      I am still not having any luck with getting people,

      I just got my first client recently so I don't have the money to spend on paying a base/draw + commission rate.

      if anyone knows a way to jump start my business, you can PM me.

      I need this to take off and away reading things that might help.

      The answer is to close a few sales... A major hiring campaign is hard but getting one or two people to work with should be a breeze... Now, whats it going to take?

      As Tony Robbins would say "Massive action". If you want to make 4 sales per week, then hire two people... in order to do that you may have to tweak your presentation... or *go for higher numbers and place 50 ads... thats what I would do personally.

      I would go hard for 3 straight days and place an ad anywhere and everywhere I could until I had 50 or 1oo free ads out there, or else, if I had money I would invest in paid ads... You have to be extreme when its needed in order to make business work, even with a good plan.

      In either event you can increase the output by investing money or "concentrated" time and effort.

      In the end if you can land 2 sales people who each do 2 sales a week and you are profiting $575 per sales as was (again brilliantly) relayed above, then you have a decent income and much more possibilities...

      You may have to do what all self made successes have to be willing to do at one point or another, and crawl through the mud a bit... making it to the other side is worth it though. Good luck.
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  • Profile picture of the author pptmedia
    Do you have a dedicated website with a "Sales Pitch" of why they should sign up to be a rep for you? And then a call to action to get them to actually do it?

    PayProMedia
    Signature

    ----------------
    PayProMedia
    e: info@paypromedia.com
    www.sellpaypromedia.com

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  • Profile picture of the author Matthewgen
    not really I been doing that via e-mails, but not sure how to word things out the best. some people say do A and some people say to do B which are compeletly different. I just want to get 1 or 2 sales reps that can give me clients. I'm not asking to make 10k by next month. I just want to get a jump start at this and not idle no more.
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  • Profile picture of the author Warrior Ben
    Wow, John! Your post above needs to go in the Gold Category as well! Your story about having a nice office is spot on and shows how skimping on a lease just to have any office space at all can end up costing more in the end.

    I leased my first office space about 4 years ago and I remember being so excited just to have an office and my company's name on the door. Seriously, I thought it was the coolest thing ever! Problem was, I went for an inexpensive place with no windows to the outside and the novelty of having my own office wore off very quickly. Fortunately the lease was only 2 years so it was able to get out relatively quickly!

    -Ben
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  • Profile picture of the author Matthewgen
    Thanks alot for that long post.

    I just got someone applying for the spot and going to keep what you said in mind.

    yes it was a long post but I took the 5 minutes to read it and it was very helpful.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by Matthewgen View Post

      Thanks alot for that long post.

      I just got someone applying for the spot and going to keep what you said in mind.

      yes it was a long post but I took the 5 minutes to read it and it was very helpful.
      Sometimes I get on a rant Matthew, but only when someone posts something that inspires, so thanks for bringing out the passion.

      A work from home network is possible, and I was a little hardcore above on purpose. It doesn't have to be hard, but you have to prepare yourself for it to be...expectations management will help you excel above others.

      Im out.
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      • Profile picture of the author midasman09
        Banned
        I feel COMPELLED to toss in my 2c here to tell you what has worked for me with "Hiring Commission SalesPeople". Many "idea" people come up with what THEY THINK is a stupendous program that SHOULD "work".... HOWEVER....their "Idea" was never "Field-Tested"!

        THEY....the "Creator" of the program had NEVER GONE OUT TO SEE HOW THE TARGEY MARKET reacts to it or....WHETHER OR NOT ANYONE WOULD BUY IT!

        They just "FELT" it would sell for X....or, they BELIEVED...it would sell for X!

        Then....they NOT being sales oriented....THINK that...."Hey! I'll just run some ads for "Sales People"....pay them 20% Commission and I'll be set for life!

        Yeah!

        With EVERY SINGLE ONE OF MY MANY Products and Programs....I....little ol' ME....went out to my Target Market to get a "Feeling" about HOW to sell the things. If I couldn't sell them...HOW was I going to teach someone else?

        So....when I had sold a few of my items...I used an "Old-Fashioned" method of Getting Leads;
        1) I rented a Voice Mail # that had a 2 minute OutGoing Message (Nowadays...$10/mo)
        2) Ran newspaper ads that said; "FREE Recorded Message Reveals How To Make $1,000 A Week, Selling X! For more info, leave your Name & Phone # at the Sound of the Beep!"
        3) I'd phone those who left their name....found what they had sold and WHY they were looking for something else to sell.
        4) Then set up a meet and personal interview

        Also....I structured my Sales Pricing so that Commisions began at 30% and went up to 50%. I mean....geez-louise.....NOTHING MOVES UNLESS SOMETHING IS....SOLD!

        GIVE your Commisioned sales people some REAL INCENTIVES...otherwise they'll find some OTHER WAY to get paid for their TIME!

        Don Alm....Sales Guy
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  • Profile picture of the author HappyGayleen
    At one time I had 4 sales reps who worked leads set up by a appointment setter. I found this worked much better than just giving a rep leads. Even if they are good on an appointment, whether that be in person or by phone, they will make more calls. I also believe the close ratio is higher because an appointment appears more professional. I advise a very short leash also on new reps. I called them every day for the first couple of weeks to help with any questions that came up. Of course this also motivates them to actually make calls and not just "plan" to. I decided to do this because I had been a sales rep myself. Best of luck!
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  • Profile picture of the author HappyGayleen
    Another thought - Let them sell you on why they should sell your product - this keeps you in the power position as the "boss. Also, if you have to sell them on your product it's probably not a good fit.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by HappyGayleen View Post

      Another thought - Let them sell you on why they should sell your product - this keeps you in the power position as the "boss. Also, if you have to sell them on your product it's probably not a good fit.
      That works so well that they will even pay you for the opportunity if you set it up right... but its a different style of recruiting altogether.

      In order to make someone sell themselves to you, you have to impress them first... so your advertising system, web pages... whatever you are using has to inspire them to feel like you are someone to impress. Alot of people just throw stuff out there and expect people to bite... You have put some thought and creativity into it, and maybe even some practice... your first 5-10 interviews are just baby steps, you are still learning to walk.

      Now if someone walks in and you have a big office... then they are naturally going to be impressed enough with your operation that the obligation to sell ones self is on their lap for the most part, because the evidence demonstrates that you have your "stuff" together... and you are offering something , an office to come to everyday, so they know this isnt totally one sided. Also they can see that you have others working steadily...

      But on the internet... you have to 'prove" you have your stuff together to get people to work for you... you do that by having a professional online image, and offering a clearly outlined structured opportunity that doesnt leave anything to guess...

      If you sound like "you" are guessing... then how are they going to have confidence to work for you?

      There really are alot of nuances to hiring people remotely, not bragging (seriously... Im sorry if it sounds that way...) but I have had extensive experience in the "opportunity selling/recruiting" end of it... ie; creating an offline affiliate (sales people) network... Lots of different angles and approaches, most importantly... even more than turning them on is "not turning them off". If they respond, they are turned on... but the employment ad is just the first phase, not the end all be all...

      You have to prepare your system ahead of time so that it comes off flawlessly without a hitch... and that way you can come across as a professional who has it all together when you interview people. Because you "do".

      I dont claim to know it all, but this has been my experience.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
    There sure is a ton of input on this topic and after reading some more I thought I'd share a bit more about my experiences with running ads and interviewing prospective employees.

    Running an employment ad is like crafting a sales landing page. You want to entice the reader into thinking, "Hey! I can do this job!" or "Wow this company looks like they have a great product!"

    I have found over the last 20 years that the most effective ad style that brought ME the best results was ads that really highlighted the benefits of working for my company in bullet point style and also "POTENTIAL" income earnings. I would also and obviously put what my company is and does in the ad as well.

    Ad example layout:

    AD intro: This is just an opening paragraph that says a little info about the company. Descriptive adjectives portraying the type of personality traits I'm looking for and some prerequisites like, dependable transportation required, outside sales position. etc.

    AD Bullet points: Here is where I paint the nice fluffy dream job picture for the. It list's as many benefits as I can think of.

    • benefit
    • benefit
    • benefit
    • benefit
    • benefit
    • benefit
    • benefit
    • benefit
    • benefit

    AD ending: Call to action to call for an interview.

    First contact: This covers the initial call by some one interested in working for the company. I take this time to give just a very cursory explanation about the company and very little additional details about the job. I do not hire any one over the phone and my ONLY goal is to get them in to see me in person. One thing I always do is really build up how great the position is, the right people can literally change their lives financially, etc. I want them dreaming about the money, dreaming about working for my company, dreaming that "THEY" are "THAT" "RIGHT" person.

    Interview time!

    This is the best part for me because, well keep reading you'll see.

    So here's what happens next.

    I bring them into my office and sit them directly across from me on the other side of my desk. Next I ask to see their resume and I'm only looking for a couple of things. What prior sales experience they have and how many jobs they've had. If it appears they are what I call a job hopper I've already made my decision on the spot in "MOST" cases. Theirs always a chance I have a closer sitting across from me and they just haven't found the right company to work with yet. Other then that I'm not to concerned about education or any stuff like that.

    Next thing that happens is I simply ask them why they believe they'd be right for this position BUT I don't pay attention. Actually I act like I'm more concerned with some other task at hand and just give them the cursory, OK's and MM HMM's.

    However, during this time I'm monitoring their reaction to my display of rudeness.

    What do I look for?
    Did they make an effort to gain my attention?
    Did they stop or fade away a little when they realized I wasn't really paying attention

    I am gauging them to see what level of self esteem they have. I don't want any one with low self esteem. PERIOD!

    Next what happens is my favorite part and the part where I learn exactly what I want to know.

    Here's kind of how it goes after they've semi pitched me on themselves.

    OK Brent as you know..... ( resell the employment ad here by listing the bullet points you put in the ad, rebuild the position up ) Watch how they react because you want to get them excited about the position all over again.

    Then drop the HAMMER on them!

    Well Brent, you seem like a fine candidate for this position but I must tell you...

    This job is HARD! This job is going to be a job where you will get a TON of rejection! Yadda yadda yadda! You want to begin painting a negative picture of the position!

    During this time what your doing is really observing their reaction to you blasting the position.

    Do they shrink away in their chair? Do you see all the hope leave? What do they say, if anything? Do they give up right there and say, well this might not be for me while their shoulders droop down and away from you?

    or...

    Do they lean into you? Do they interject and retort with a comeback to your negative rant about how hard the position is? Do they rise to the occasion and attempt to resell you? Do they ignore your rant and sit their UN-phased?

    The psychology behind this is VERY important because we are all on our best behavior when on a job interview. We cover our personality flaws and we have our best foot forward because its a job interview.

    What I want to know is how they handle rejection and negativity so I act like a business owner that has no time for them and is a bit hostile and negative.

    How the interviewee reacts to me in this situation give me my most VALUABLE insight to how they'll act in the field when they run into this situation.

    I don't want to know how they handle the prospect that can't wait to get a pen in their hand and sign up for our services.

    I don't care what they've done in the past, I don't care how much or little experience they have in my field. What I care about is their personality traits and how they handle rejection and negativity.

    If they pass the test and I hire them, the rest is just a matter of training them on my system, products, and everything else required to sell the company and its services.

    This method I have learned on my own after hiring tons of looser sales people early on in my career as a small business owner. After going through the make nice nice interview process that I thought was the best or right way to interview.

    Once I started doing the above I quickly found out who I wanted working for me and who I didn't.

    I was able to hire million dollar a year gross sales producers with my interviewing methods, and not take forever to find them.
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  • Profile picture of the author WinXPrize
    You have to keep on trying
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    • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
      That is a major contribution to this forum. Thanks!

      Originally Posted by WinXPrize View Post

      You have to keep on trying
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      • Profile picture of the author dericks3
        Now that cracked me up Rus

        Thanks for that
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      • Profile picture of the author PatrickP
        Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

        That is a major contribution to this forum. Thanks!

        THIS was an even BETTER contribution :rolleyes::p
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

        That is a major contribution to this forum. Thanks!
        And so relevant... to EVERY THREAD ON THE WF... lol

        Ps. Remember when you just started on WF and all the seniors gave you a hard time? Or was that just me? lol

        Our turn!
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      • Profile picture of the author DWolfe
        Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

        That is a major contribution to this forum. Thanks!
        Dam I thought it was spam You guys proved me wrong :rolleyes:
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  • Profile picture of the author MKTNG
    Read E Myth Revisited then chapter 14 of the four hour work week. Then post an ad for outsourcing these tasks it will give you the opportunity to practice Rus' awesome advice above. Plus you will get 30-40 applicants within 24 hours. You can take their results and add them to your cl advertisement. Speaking of results is even mor effective than potential. Hope that helps at all, good luck keep at it
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  • Profile picture of the author BackLinkingNinja
    I've hired many sales teams over the years and one of the basic things I do at the beginning is to always get them to call me back - because if they won't call you and you're offering a job then the chances are they aren't go getters. I also find that splitting the function by having a telemarketer making appointments (and getting a % of the deals) works great as they focus on getting leads and your field team go and pitch/close. Likewise I always try and hire in groups - ideally getting to meet people face to face by hiring a meeting room at a local hotel. You need to hire in numbers if you're paying commission only as only 1/8-10 are likely to do much. If you're finding it hard to get started, I'd also back a second horse by contacting all the local seo firms and offering your sub-contracting services and I'd contact all the local accountants/CPA and offer them a commission on introductions. Give them some kind of special offer to their clients, especially start-ups and a cut on business. This can work so well! Good Luck!
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  • Profile picture of the author Matthewgen
    is there any good training videos out for sales reps?
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    • Profile picture of the author cscarpero
      Not surprised. It's a royal pain to get a good sales rep. I gave up on it myself. I've found that its a lot easier to outsource tasks like telemarketing and emailing and do my own follow up.
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      I'm an online marketer and mortgage loan officer.

      Connect with me at www.Scarpero.com

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    • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
      Matt,

      Get on my list below for my upcoming wso, the bonus is 2 webinars about selling i thinks its over 5 hours total.

      Originally Posted by Matthewgen View Post

      is there any good training videos out for sales reps?
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