I have two appointments this week for my rent-a-site business. Add your opinion!!

28 replies
Hey guys,

I have secured myself two appointments for this week with another 1 or 2 potential ones as well. I have one tomorrow, and one the day after.

With the rent a site model, I already have the websites ranking high in organic. All of them are on the first page, and for the two meetings, I have a website for each of the respective areas ranking high. The sites look a little better than they used to look, as I have modified their appearance as per instructions from warriors via another thread. You can see my site at ***Website Removed***

Anyway, I have a rough idea of what I might talk about in the appointment - but tell me guys, what would YOU say or do or talk about. I might steal some of your ideas to hopefully secure my first client!

PS: I Won't be asking for their payment yet, I want to set up a Google Places for them (under their address) as part of my arsenal to ensure I do really provide good results/benefits for them. So payment won't be taken till I start delivering leads steadily. Should I be making the pricing structure clear yet? As I really want to wait and see how many clients I am sending their way before giving out pricing details.

ANY and ALL input is appreciated!
#add #appointments #business #opinion #rentasite #week
  • Profile picture of the author WPMaker
    Originally Posted by krzysiek View Post

    Hey guys,

    I have secured myself two appointments for this week with another 1 or 2 potential ones as well. I have one tomorrow, and one the day after.

    With the rent a site model, I already have the websites ranking high in organic. All of them are on the first page, and for the two meetings, I have a website for each of the respective areas ranking high. The sites look a little better than they used to look, as I have modified their appearance as per instructions from warriors via another thread. You can see my site at ...

    Anyway, I have a rough idea of what I might talk about in the appointment - but tell me guys, what would YOU say or do or talk about. I might steal some of your ideas to hopefully secure my first client!

    PS: I Won't be asking for their payment yet, I want to set up a Google Places for them (under their address) as part of my arsenal to ensure I do really provide good results/benefits for them. So payment won't be taken till I start delivering leads steadily. Should I be making the pricing structure clear yet? As I really want to wait and see how many clients I am sending their way before giving out pricing details.

    ANY and ALL input is appreciated!
    Talk about what they will get
    I mean benefits like new clients, more money etc.

    Also keep in mind one important thing, most people don't know anything about online marketing so you need to explain even the basic things. One of my client told me that and he was right. What is easy for you can be really hard for them to understand.

    Also I must say it's a nice website. Better then most business have
    I don't work in rent a site model but I must say it could bring some nice profits.

    Do you have more of this websites? Also do you outsource the creation part? I would really like to know that If you don't want to answer on public forum than please PM me.

    And offtopic question, that name "krzysiek" sounds like polish one, am I right?
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    • Profile picture of the author krzysiek
      Hi Marek, you are right it is Polish!

      I do have other websites. They all look IDENTICAL minus different map locations, addresses and phone number. But for the most part, they look identical.

      The reason is: I am not "selling" these websites and thus they do not need to be unique. I am renting them out, and I am only targetting dentists.

      Thus, I can work on how well the site looks and how well optimised it is at converting visitors into callers easily, as all of my websites are in the same industry. So it really lets me concentrate as much as I need to on perfecting it - and then all changes to one site are carried over to my other sites to ensure all of them are looking great!

      I have outsourced parts of that website, such as the logo and some other design stuff. But the website is a WP website with a nice theme which I have just modified over time to look as good as I could make it look!

      Originally Posted by Art_Marks View Post

      Talk about what they will get
      I mean benefits like new clients, more money etc.

      Also keep in mind one important thing, most people don't know anything about online marketing so you need to explain even the basic things. One of my client told me that and he was right. What is easy for you can be really hard for them to understand.

      Also I must say it's a nice website. Better then most business have
      I don't work in rent a site model but I must say it could bring some nice profits.

      Do you have more of this websites? Also do you outsource the creation part? I would really like to know that If you don't want to answer on public forum than please PM me.

      And offtopic question, that name "krzysiek" sounds like polish one, am I right?
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  • Profile picture of the author Big Gee
    looks good ! the new picture makes a big improvement, and no more pop ups. If you dont mind me asking, are you just renting this website to just one or multiple dentist for each specialty ?
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    • Profile picture of the author Menno Marketing
      Great topic! I'd like to get some answers too on your strategy :-)
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    • Profile picture of the author krzysiek
      Originally Posted by Big Gee View Post

      looks good ! the new picture makes a big improvement, and no more pop ups. If you dont mind me asking, are you just renting this website to just one or multiple dentist for each specialty ?
      Hey Big Gee!

      Thanks for your response. Glad to hear you like it much better now. I liked it before, but now I like it a lot better. I assume there are still improvements to be made, but I do feel it is a much better & more efficient website now.

      I am renting this website only to one dentist per area. So the site given above is for the "Essendon" area and only one dentist will get it. I will change the logo to reflect their business name, and then add some content pertaining specifically to their dental practice (about us page will be changed to suit their clinic) and the rest for the most part will be left the same.

      The idea is to give the impression to a visitor that they have actually visited the website OF the clinic, not just some lead generating site. So that is what the dental clinic will be paying for. Additionally, since the on and off page SEO is good, and the competition for Google Places quite low: I anticipate I can get a Google Places listing on the first page of Google quite easily.

      Additionally to that, I also want to get a YouTube video (already uploaded one) onto the first page as well for the keywords, for added exposure. All of this together should work out to provide really good results.

      The only problem I have, is, I don't think the dental clinic owner will agree to the 'free check up' so I am going to need to think of something else which will still entice people to CALL instead of just read the website. I might do a FREE toothbrush and FREE floss (I supply) as part of the incentive.
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  • Profile picture of the author bobbobson
    In my opinion - Quantify it as much as possible. Business people love numbers. You don't want to back yourself into a corner with promises that you can't deliver on, but as you already have the websites ranking high in the organic listings, you have the added advantage of being able to give 'exact' numbers.

    Think outside the box a bit - Do some of your own research and find out what your clients would charge for some of the treatments associated with your most popular keywords. So let's say your organic listings are bringing you a lot of 'teeth whitening' clients. How much would a teeth whitening run the customer at each of your client's operations? Work out some rough conversion figures (if 1% convert, 5%, 10% etc etc) and present them to the clients.

    How do you get a Warrior excited in your business proposal? Show them the money! It's the same with your clients!

    (Oh and great looking site btw!)

    Mark
    Signature
    [Offliners!] Newbie Friendly Method = Easy Clients Paying $200 - $500 per month [AMAZING Reviews]

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    • Profile picture of the author martyJames
      Great thread and good luck with the sales call. I agree with the above post- quantify where possible. I checked the google keyword tool for Australia "Dentist Essendon" supposedly gets 110 exact match searches per month , so if you are in position 5 or 6 say you might only get 10 or so visitors to the site per month. Say if that converts to 1 new customer per month , whats that worth to a dentist? Say $500 (Minimum) per year , could be a LOT more. So over a year maybe he would get minimum $500 x 12= $6000 (minimum) extra business. Thats for 1 keyword , presumably it will be optimised for other keywords that will also generate customers??
      If you can get an idea as to potential increase in business for the client , say $100kpa , you can charge 5-10% of that i would think?

      Have you checked with google analytics how many visitors per month the site gets??

      Anyhow , this is one approach (the numbers are rubbery but you get the idea)

      anyway- let us know how you go

      cheers

      Marty
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  • Profile picture of the author dilnaj
    The website looks awesome. Can you share the theme you're using?

    I know you don't want to but I would charge $200-500 upfront so you have something to walk away with and they see you as valuable otherwise it's common they won't appreciate your work.

    Explain to them the benefits of having your website on the page 1 listings and more specifically the top 3.

    Ask them in the beginning how much is their average customer is worth.

    Then be sure to emphasize that all they need is do is get 1-3 customers (or however much their average customer is worth) for ROI. It'll be an easily investment for them if they know what you know.
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    • Profile picture of the author midasman09
      Banned
      Here's a VERY SUCCESSFUL page that gets LOTS of LEADS for a dentist.

      The guy doing this for the dentist was getting $75 per Lead (Call in appt)...and gets MANY Appts a month. He's probably charging more now, since it's a PROVEN WINNER!

      (Sorry....had to remove the link to the url.....because the last time I showed the actual page...the dentist's office was deluged with calls from a Forum. I will remove actual names and numbers and make up a JPG so you can see how it is done)

      ( Krz....send me a pm and I'll give you the link)

      Don Alm
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      • Profile picture of the author Menno Marketing
        Krzysiek, nice looking website!

        I was wondering how you managed to get the appointments. By cold calling or an email... And what whas your approach, I mean what did you tell them?

        Thanks!
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        • Profile picture of the author krzysiek
          Originally Posted by Menno Marketing View Post

          Krzysiek, nice looking website!

          I was wondering how you managed to get the appointments. By cold calling or an email... And what whas your approach, I mean what did you tell them?

          Thanks!
          I called up about 6 businesses. I got 2 appointments immediately, I got 1 guy calling me back to make an appointment, I got 2 emails to send further info (din't hear back yet) and I got 1 that politely said that they already have too many clients!

          I just tried to find the 'hardest' to find dental clinics, so that they were probably less attacked by telemarketers due to their lower online visibility. They are the people I want to help most, anyway. Win-win.
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      • Profile picture of the author Ehsan_am
        Originally Posted by midasman09 View Post

        Here's a VERY SUCCESSFUL page that gets LOTS of LEADS for a dentist.

        The guy doing this for the dentist was getting $75 per Lead (Call in appt)...and gets MANY Appts a month. He's probably charging more now, since it's a PROVEN WINNER!

        (Sorry....had to remove the link to the url.....because the last time I showed the actual page...the dentist's office was deluged with calls from a Forum. I will remove actual names and numbers and make up a JPG so you can see how it is done)

        ( Krz....send me a pm and I'll give you the link)

        Don Alm
        Hey,

        I would be interested to have a look that website or at least a screen shot of it.

        Thanks
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  • Talk benefits, cite specific numbers, avg and longterm potential
    Signature




    Have a Wonderful Day!

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  • Profile picture of the author krzysiek
    * * * * * UPDATE * * * * *

    Just got back from my first appointment. This was actually me 'second' appointment because I have sold a website to a lawyer previously, but this was the first for my rent a site model business that I am working on.

    The meeting seemed to have went well. But no doubt, there are room for improvements.

    NOTES:
    - I presented well, I was friendly and generally quite calm throughout the whole thing. I was quite pleased with myself. Perhaps the first 20 or so seconds I could have eased up a bit more, but I pretty much transitioned into an informative-conversation quite quickly. I was pleased with myself overall.

    - I didn't have the whole "WOW" factor. Or at least, I feel like I didn't create one. I said I will get them 5-10 leads/month. Seemed interested, but something on my part was still lacking to convince. I need to work on it.

    - Near the end, I was asked for a proposal. I didn't have one. I was planning on working and providing the service for free until I am generating regular leads and at the level of 5-10 per month. At that point, I would start charging. I made this clear, but I guess there was still a need for a proposal.

    - I was asked for a business card. I did not have one as I have not set up a website for my service. I much rather come in, have a meeting & chat and explain and visually show what I do than leave it up to a website. At least, that is my current reasoning. Thus, I didn't make a business card either. I have since bought 1000 business card labels and I am going to make a business cards with my home-kit today.

    - I informed that YellowPages is not the most cost effective advertising portal. I did this reasonably well but did not obviously perform well enough as I did not have the lady agreeing with me fully. I did get some agreement, but I could have done a better job at illustrating how Yellow Pages is not the most cost effective. I did point out that while she believes she might be getting a lot of results, she might only be getting a lot of 'visits'. I explained that each 'visit' does not turn out to be a caller, and that she could expect maybe 10% of those visits to be customers from Yellow Pages.

    - She asked that "so all I need to do is increase my rank" and then she would have what I am offering. I politely explained that just because you rank high does not mean you will make money. I outlined that my sites are made to try and maximise conversions and that that would need to be done for their current site. I also said that SEO will incur a recurring fee as well. I also noted that I would be doing Google Places (could have explained this better than I did). In the end, I think the lady believes all she would need to do is SEO and that is it. I should have illustrated better that there is more to it, ie - google places, keeping the ranking high, conversion rates, maintenance etc. I did tell her that she could definitely do it as well (since I am doing it, why couldn't she) but I told her I will provide the clients hassle free and they won't need to do anything but take the calls, whereas they would need to try and look after the site if they were going with anyone else.

    - She said she will consider the offer but she has had several identical proposals (I doubt it, but could be true). I was very friendly, she was too: I will follow up with a short SMS in about a weeks time as I told her I would not be bugging her, but I did tell her I would follow up.

    - Overall, I have a chance of closing this one but I do not have a 'certain' feeling. I guess there is maybe a 20% chance I may close her on this deal.


    I must say, I have really made it out like I did a crap job. I was friendly, I was smiling and I was not spreading BS. I did a pretty good job if you ask me. Room for improvement? YES. But I still feel I did a good job.

    WHATS NEXT?
    - Appointment tomorrow. Calling them to confirm it is still going ahead in a few minutes.
    - I called up another dentist who was meant to call me back yesterday to set an appointment. They were busy, so they said they will call me back today still as they are still interested. So that should be another appointment.
    - Will try and set another appointment or two or get some interest from another couple of dental clinics to try and keep myself filled in.

    - Got 3 x Google Postcards in the mail today with the verification PIN CODES for the Google Places I have set up. Might start working on them!
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  • Profile picture of the author krzysiek
    Any other tips or hints before my next appointment, which is < 10 hours away!?
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  • Profile picture of the author Dr Dan
    Just remember that you are speaking to someone that doesnt know anything about SEO, rankings, etc.

    They could care less about those things and only want one thing... More business..

    You must stand out from the crowd.

    People buy from those they like and trust. That is more important than sharing figures and facts.

    When you meet with the next appointment, be sure to talk to them more about how you will get them more business, leads, and a bigger and better presence on the web.

    Also I stopped handing out business cards and started using a flyer so that I really stood out. It had 2 screenshots of my clients that owned Googles First pages.

    Pictures of results are worth more than a catchy slogan and your contact details.

    Make it happen!


    I use 2 screenshots like this one below. But they are not blurred obviously.

    I have my logo on the flyer and my contact info as well.

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  • Profile picture of the author krzysiek
    * * * * * UPDATE * * * * *

    Just had my second meeting. This one was much better. The dentist was much more down to earth, and everything went smoothly. Talking to him was like a talk with one of my friends. No sweat!

    Got him interested. I said we only start charging once I am offering leads steadily and he seemed quite interested. It is now time to write up a brief proposal and present it to his wife via email but he seemed quite interested. He said money is not so much of an issue (ie - how much I charge) as long as I am providing the results. Potentially a high paying client right here guys.

    So all is well. Need to write up that proposal!

    ****BUT****

    When I got home, about 15 minutes after getting back, I got a call. From another dentist in the same area. They LOVE my site and how it looks. They wanted to buy it, but I politely informed that I am doing a lead generating service. I told them, based on around 10 leads/month it would be around $500/month. I normally wouldn't go out and say my price, but hey... they seem hooked.

    Now I don't know what to do. Go for the lead generating, or offer them a $6K or so buy out price (cost of 10/ leads/month for a whole year) to just take over and own the site. Difficult choice. I am not sure if they would bite at $6K, but they know that my site is much better than their current site and they absolutely love it. They even asked if I could re-design their website but I turned the work down because I want to be concentrated on one business model, not all over the place (can't do everything well all at once, right).

    What are your thoughts?
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  • Profile picture of the author Ehsan_am
    That is awesome results man.

    Why not sell them the website? You can always create another website and outrank them unless they agree to pay you a recurring fee for the SEO on the website they buy from you.
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  • Profile picture of the author aaallday2010
    Great Job!!

    That is one nice looking website for sure. To answer your question about charging $6000 for the outright sale of the website, I really dont see the problem in that. Some web developers charge more for a website that not only doesn't look as good as yours, but also doesnt rank as high as yours either.

    All you need to do is justify the price by showing them numbers (as mentioned above). If a dentist could get an extra 6 to 8 more patients per month with this website then YES, they would gladly pay you $6000 for it. I believe (here in the US at least) that the average dental patient over the life of visiting a dentist would be around $1500 to $2000 in profit. Of course that all depends on the procedure being done. Cosmetic surgery would obviously be much, much higher in profit potential for the dentist.

    So yes, you could easily charge $6000 plus a few hundred more per month for maintenance, hosting, seo and other fees associated with making sure the website maintains its page one ranking.

    I have a few questions for you if you dont mind :-)

    1. How long did it take for the website to get ranked on the first page?


    2. Who did your website? If you outsourced it, to whom did you outsource it to? Oh, and what theme is that?

    3. How did you initially contact the dentists? Phone, email...?

    So far, I think you've done a great job. Keep up the good work and please keep us posted.
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  • Profile picture of the author deckman
    Great Job krzysiek !

    I really enjoyed this thread.

    I have been envisioning similar scenarios. I have been a contractor for over thirty years selling and installing my services and have made quite a few contacts with other contractors and find it very easy to talk business (so to speak) with them.

    I asked three of them point blank "What are you spending monthly on advertising, what type of advertising and how well is it working for you ?" The answers for the amount ranges from $1,300 to $4,000. Response has been very low mediocre at best It seems that most of them only know one type of advertising and that is Adpages, Valpak, Moneymailer or something similar that is either mailed or hung on doors.

    They take a valid interest when I tell them that for half of that monthly cost they could have leads from people that are actually searching for their service.

    When I finish a couple and have it up and running I think that this will be a easy sell. Give them something like the first ten leads for free just to show how well it works.

    5-6 of these providing monthly residual and I wont need to be busting my ass anymore!

    Gotta Love this Forum !
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  • Profile picture of the author krzysiek
    Hi guys,

    I was checking checking the traffic coming through to my site as of late, and noticed a few hits from this WF thread, so I thought I would check it out as I have not been in this thread for a while now!

    The net result after my first two appointments is 0. Nothing came of it. The first appointment as described above was quite bad, but it was my first ever and I am just happy I had the courage to go and learn.

    The second appointment went well. Something between the time of me leaving and following up went sour for the dentist as he has literally not spoken to me since. I have delivered them around 5-6 leads all up, and I even got them 3 appointments in ONE day (lucky) and the receptionist said she will definitely pass the information on to the dentist. No response. What the hell?

    Anyway, I have been working on related ideas but nothing has taken off for me. I really need to get started somewhere.
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    • Profile picture of the author mrtrance
      Originally Posted by krzysiek View Post

      Hi guys,

      I was checking checking the traffic coming through to my site as of late, and noticed a few hits from this WF thread, so I thought I would check it out as I have not been in this thread for a while now!

      The net result after my first two appointments is 0. Nothing came of it. The first appointment as described above was quite bad, but it was my first ever and I am just happy I had the courage to go and learn.

      The second appointment went well. Something between the time of me leaving and following up went sour for the dentist as he has literally not spoken to me since. I have delivered them around 5-6 leads all up, and I even got them 3 appointments in ONE day (lucky) and the receptionist said she will definitely pass the information on to the dentist. No response. What the hell?

      Anyway, I have been working on related ideas but nothing has taken off for me. I really need to get started somewhere.
      So no client for your dentist site yet? Are you still.tracking how many visitors you get to your site monthly? One thing you can always test to see if your site is actually converting people and making them call is to have a forwarding number on the site that forwards to one of the local dentists and that way you can see how many actual leads do cal the dentist and when you set up your next appointment you can have this data to backup your data to the dentist?

      By the way do you have a copy of thay site thay midasman talked about earlier in the threaf and how it was converting so well for the client? If you can PM me with it that would be highly appreciated.
      Signature

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      • Profile picture of the author jimbo13
        Originally Posted by mrtrance View Post

        By the way do you have a copy of thay site thay midasman talked about earlier in the threaf and how it was converting so well for the client? If you can PM me with it that would be highly appreciated.
        Perhaps you should ask midasman out of courtesy eh? I'm sure he would oblige.

        Krzysiek

        Sales is selling what you have got.

        Marketing is selling what the customer wants - or changing the customers perception to what they want as Sony did with the walkman for example.

        Your site shows no understanding of why someone chooses a dentist.
        It is not really aimed at anyone other than someone who just happens to live in Essendon.

        There is a video on it with some pop type music for some example.

        So that is what you have got and are trying to sell it.

        But that is not what the market wants from a dentists website.

        And that is just one example of what is wrong.

        Dan
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  • Profile picture of the author maricelu
    I like the look of the website/ It has clear call-to-action points and the colors are used great.
    I am working on developing this kind of websites myself and I can say I learned a bit from your site.
    Between, if anyone is interested for a free Lead Generating website -- Check my signature.

    Cheers
    Signature

    I have no signature.

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  • Profile picture of the author krzysiek
    Hi guys,

    Thanks a lot for your responses.

    @mrtrance: I do have the number forwarding set up. Currently, it was set to automatically redirect to voicemail, which is then collected and emailed to me. I usually get around 4-5 voicemails per month.

    The thing is though, I have a feeling that a few people would be hanging up before leaving a voice mail, as soon as they realise no one is picking up the phone. So I have just recently put it to call my mobile (which I won't pick up) to test how many of these calls will come through.

    I would forward them to a dentist, but by forwarding it to my mobile I can gauge with 100% accuracy how many calls are coming through. With directing it to the dental site, my redirecting backend only shows calls made that were ANSWERED. So if not answered by the dentist, it won't show up and thus gives me the wrong reading for my little experiment.

    I just had a look at my traffic stats, in the least month: 42 visits all with relevant keywords (dentist+essendon in the search term).

    So going by my average of 5 leads (of which some might be hanging up due to voice mail) that is an approx. 10% conversion rate. I think if I actually don't have the voice mail, more calls would come through.

    In terms of the midasman website, sorry I don't have a link to that any longer. Please ask him

    @maricelu: thanks!

    @jimbo13 (Dan): Thanks a lot for your input. I'm all ears for improving. Can you tell me in 'laymans' terms what I am doing wrong. I understand how you said in the video for example there is pop music.

    What do you think I should have put instead? Perhaps a voice over talking to the viewers?

    When you say that the site is not aimed at anyone other than those who live in Essendon, can you elaborate?

    With that site I am strictly trying to target people looking for a dentist in the Essendon suburb (I am not looking to target any other suburbs, so that I can make a website in those other suburbs as well). Is that what you meant by your statement, or was it something different?

    Thanks a lot for your help so far guys!
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    • Profile picture of the author jimbo13
      K

      What I meant by no one inparticular is for example, People over 50 or young families or housewives wanting smile makeovers that sort thing.

      They all have different reasons for wanting a dentist.

      People over 50 are more likely to have denture work and don't want to sit in receptions full of kids with toys.

      And mothers with kids do want there to be toys and a dentist that stresses he/she is especially good with nervous kids.

      So if you set your site up for a specific demographic you would have higher conversions even if traffic was lower.

      I would set up a complete website overhaul for a dentist and cover 7 Ps

      Profile, People, Premises, Products, Prices, Promises,and Proof.

      Once you have done one dentist and got results you can then go to the dentist round the corner with a different profile.

      EG This is what I did for Mr Smith in Sesame Street, you probabaly know him and this is what happened to his sales.

      Now he deals with mainly elderly people and you deal with more younger families so I am going to do the same for you in your market etc etc.

      Don't know if that makes sense.

      Page 1 the profile page should have the strong headline and follow up copy. The other 6 pages should be supporting that page.

      Dan
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  • Profile picture of the author krzysiek
    Hi Dan,

    Thanks very much for your response and the email which you will probably be sending, too!

    I can see what you mean now. Target a super specific audience 'within' the niche to get conversions higher. This makes logical sense, without a doubt.

    However, I am afraid it may not work too well in the small town of Essendon. I have not looked at the stats, but it is probably around something like a 20K population town (much smaller compared to US towns I believe) so search terms are naturally lower.

    If I target people looking specifically for a childrens dentist in Essendon, for example, then I might only get around 10 or 15 searchers per month (I would say this is the absolute ceiling) and if my conversion then went to 50% (not sure how likely?) I would still see around 5 leads per month?

    I could have just asked this via PM, but I feel what you are saying is based on experience (and not just your ideas) so I post it publically so that perhaps others in the same scenario can benefit, too! Thaks again.
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    • Profile picture of the author jimbo13
      K

      Just for the record I am nothing to do with IM.

      I actually have no real idea of what most of you talk about.

      The problem with a forum is it is just a 'see what is written and try to answer' kind of place, but the answers are rarely based on anything.

      This is all forums.

      Why Marketing consultants charge £400 a day on average is because they go through quite a bit and determine the best strategy and what tactics can be used to support that strategy.

      This forum is really about tactics businesses can use and how you can sell them.

      So I have no idea what the search numbers would be in Essendon, only you can determine that by testing.

      But if I was to sell something to a dentist it wouldn't be just a website or Seo it would basically be me in charge of their fixed marketing budget and determining what is the best way I can use that to maximise their return.

      That is what brings in the money. This should be your long term goal.

      What many do here is try to get a lead in for future tactical upsells, but if you take over the marketing completely you don't need to upsell do you?

      You will probably find that a dentist is maybe allocating 5% per annum to marketing.

      Get yourself in charge of it. This will take you maybe one year to get to this position with smallish operations.

      Deal with one solid market which can afford to pay you and learn, implement and test.

      If you act the headless chicken going for all sorts of different client types you will find yourself with a) a headache and b) a problem getting rid of the ones you don't want in a year or two and c) no real reputation in any field so still on the finding more clients wheel.

      Dan
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