just had my head chewed off by offline biz owners!

which wso was it?

i suggest putting an honest review in the thread of the wso to help others avoid the same fate.

many here complain about the wso market and how it has went to sh*t. but the best way to clean it up is for us to police ourselves and leave honest reviews.

This is interesting however what was the offer?

Why were they so annoyed?

If needs be you don't have to reveal the WSO but what did you email them initially and then what was the 2nd part that annoyed them?

Chris

Yep you should give us more details. You don't have to spell everything out if you don't want to.

I bet that I know which one it is as it has been re-posted a few times over the past 1-2 years. Does it have to do with a "publishing" bait-and-switch? If so, it's a really bad/deceptive method...

MMmmmm, interesting....

It's probably not a good idea to annoy new prospect business owners with some intrusive e-mail. First of all, you where lucky that they replied to your e-mail, but that's probably because the method used was maybe kind of rude and they just wanted too say something back .

Let us know if you want to share the WSO...

Yes....I'd rather just leave it there. I guess they were annoyed as it comes across like you are a reporter wanting to publish a story..then you switch to a service...The thing I leanred is getting them to answer email nnd reply isn't the end all be all. If it's not done right you get angry replies.

well it showed it was fantastic and getting replies...but then failed I.M.H.O.

I think I know the WSO you are referring to. I tried it for a couple of months but eventually dropped it because It felt increasingly uncomfortable getting an ear bashing from business owners, who felt there was a strong element of deception in the initial email contact.

I am thinking of dropping some feedback in the WSO thread, especially as the last Google update, in my opinion, significantly devalued the service that I was offering.

It's pretty bad that two people knew what you were referring to with such a vague description..lol.

I feel like you should have a level of trust between you and your clients..and this method totally destroys that right out of the gate. To be offering this over and over (for the length of time that they have) they must be making good sales. I might post some comments on the thread later since it could possibly save someone money and trouble.

Dear Sir

With all due respect your reply indicates that you are now looking to write ********* on the internet, rather than to quote your own words…." ******** **** ******"

You are actually misrepresenting what you are offering and I suspect you will be looking to be paid at some point later on despite your assurances to the contrary.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Hello,

I find your offer very deceiving. Please remove us form your email list.


Thank you


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 of the nicer replies I received.... Damm....what a crock of B*S* this is.

to be fair i spent a lot of time asking if this was right and of buisness did go for it..i was told "just do it 100% as i do..." So I did.. against my gut feeling and well. ^^ I shouldn't have bothered with it.

I'll be dumping it form now. What a waste of time. Still maybe I learned something?

Yes I said in the post I agreed with it..... Thx ^^^

I would leave a review on the WSO thread. Can't believe an 'Expert' would teach about deceptive methods that would obviously rarely work.

Yes I said in the post I agreed with it..... Thx ^^^

this thread will probably get moved to the product review section soon, but i really would like to see more people start adding the honest reviews to the wso threads so that others know what they are getting into.

i know if feels good to rant, but your story could help save someone else a lot of time, money, energy and effort by avoiding a system that is based heavily on deception.

some warriors who spend a lot of time on here, may know the product, but most who land on the wso sales page have no idea your story exists.

Well yeah that's exactly it. I am still getting replies but I will not be bothering any more with it.

It's like emialng someone to say "you have just won $1m on the lott..only to try and sell them a service when they reply.." What's the point?

Often people are blinded by the fools gold on offer. If it smells and looks like ..... then it usually is ..... / who are you really mad at, the peddler of promises of riches, or yourself for not trusting your own gut.

Well it's very similiar but there's no doubt it's deceptive. I mean proofs in the pudding with my replies today from 30 sent. Yes it is a freebie..but it's not quite what they are replying for and end of the day you are trying to get them to pay for a service later on. + I see very little value for the bizz actually in this service....I just do not see it.

not angry just a little annoyed with my-self for going through with it against my "gut instinct."

me:

Sorry to hear about this... Business owners are in business for a reason (well most of them) they are SMART.

Trying to deceive them with fancy tactics is normally NOT the best approach.

I'm sure you will resolve this and end up with an awesome offline business.

Take this one on the chin and learn from it but please "keep on keeping" on :-)

Yeah now you mention it....There are a lot of them

I really do NOT understand why you posted this here?

Instead, as a few people suggested, you should have posted directly in the WSO's thread. As a paying customer you have the right to post your experience with the product and warn other potential buyers about the pitfalls.

Don't attack the author of the thing, just stay calm, objective and describe the facts about the product.

Here in the main forum this thread is useless... and the mods will not like it very much.
However, in the WSO thread it could be an eye-opener for many.

I earn the majority of my living from working with small businesses, their computer equipment and their web presence.

I am, if you look, noticeable by my absence from ALL the threads on this forum related to this area of businesses.

A while back there were several threads here, along the lines of "I've been asked to design a website for a local business, how much should I charge" received replies along the lines of "charge them $5k" (with no explanation given about why).

I decided early on that some of the **** here relating to offline business working shouldn't even be dignified with an answer.

(No offence intended to people here offering sensible advice on how to work with offline businesses.)

Remember, if you work with local businesses you are working with local people. People who know you, or will get to know you.

well it wasn't to even mention the WSO it was to merely state what some offliners thought about the tactics.. Everyone else then chimed in about posting it on the WSO section..which I cannot find.

Thank you

Well after reading this thread I for one would like a little more clue as to what this wso was about so I can steer clear of the rocks!
Bad advice is something that should only be repeated as a warning -

How and why did they feel so deceived?
You offered them something for free that wasn't free, had a trial, or subscription? Or ???
Excuse me for seeming clueless...but sometimes reading thru many posts in a WSO, and finding only one or two negatives does not drive home the point it should be avoided like the plague...

And now you say it can't be found - but it has apparently "popped up" a few times already like a weed.

* I for one would rather spend my bloody time searching for WSO's that can help me rather than wasting time searching on those that can't - is that not the purpose of this forum and of our discourse?

If this thread has lasted this long without getting moved or removed, somebody should at least post a link to the WSO to keep others from buying or using these tactics.

Personally, I find it a dis-service to all the fellow warriors who read this thread not to have that information posted.

I thought we were here to help each other?

It is doing a dis-service to everyone here by not identifying the method used.

It sounds like it could be the Jobless Dad technique where you offer an interview to business owners in exchange you talk to them about marketing.

It doesn't seem deceptive to me in the least, infact I am working on it now.

The thread is mostly useless unless you identify the technique used.

Can someone out the WSO or at least the technique?

Hi All,

Well I can share that this is definitely not the Jobless Dad method as I have never told or mentioned emailing a business regarding an interview and doing some bait and switch.

I have been doing offline marketing for over 3 years, that's all that I personally do is work with offline businesses and they LOVE talking to me because I give first.

I give them a ton of information that the law of reciprocity takes over and they want to do business with me month in and month out.

I meet with the business owners face to face, I never tried the emailing route because I know they get tons of spam every day and a number of these folks just delete their emails without even opening them.

In fact a few of my invoices get deleted, I don't know if by mistake or what but I know that the email route is an extremely difficult road to take starting a relationship with a business.

I am not saying that it can't be done, I am just saying I don't use that method myself.

Lying to the businesses in order to just get to their wallets will always get you an earful, remember that the business owners don't care how much you know until they know how much you care and in this marketplace they are looking for alternative solutions to bringing in customers.

John was spot on that these business owners are to smart and don't have time for fluff, if you can help them then they are all ears if not then you need to move on because they have to much work and not enough time.

To your success,
John

John: I was hoping you would show up.

Agreed the email part was making me wonder.

And again if one is upfront about being a webmaster or expert in the field then there is no deception especially if one is genuinely offering help.

Thanks

@JohnSpangler,
Your reply reinforces what many said about the OP. To allude to a product being deceptive with no details really isn't appropriate in the open forum. It belongs in the WSO thread as a review. There's too much unreliable speculation that isn't too helpful.

I've also seen this WSO (bought it). But I would never do it, like that guy said in his reply it's deceptive. Even if I could get clients by deceiving them I would choose not to (basically the worst possible way to start a conversation/business relationship).

Instead why not send them an email with a video explaining how they can get more leads from their website (e.g. give them value not a bs story about publishing them).

I think that I have a similar WSO, but didn't find it deceptive. It was a soft sell approach, you did the work up front. They assumption was they would contact you or you would follow up after they're getting some traffic from the ranking.

I'm just not a fan of the work for free leads or models.

Exactly. Small business owners get hit up all the time, ALL THE TIME, for internet related services.

If it's not some failed IM'er that bought the lastest WSO and thinks hitting up offline businesses will be easier, it's Yellow Pages, Yellow Book, and every other online marketing service out there.

I was just talking to a business owner that said he gets between 5 to 10 calls a week from people trying to sell him something.

I like getting ideas from people here and seeing what everyone is doing, but one thing that really kind of annoys me is the mentality that small business owners are clueless and are an easy touch.

They are out there busting their butts every day trying to keep the doors open in this crappy economy. They may not be experts in online marketing, but that's not their business. It doesn't mean they are stupid.

The very LAST thing they need is some jackass that really doesn't know what they are doing selling them services without the slightest concept of whether or not it fits well with their business, or even if it's what they really need at that particular moment.

I can't tell you how many times I've had someone come to me and show me what they've paid good money for and it is worse than worthless, because they have to pay me to fix the damage that was done.

Maybe three years ago, launching into offline services was easier because everyone and their brother wasn't trying to get a piece of the action.

Now? I think the best way is to get out and actually meet the business owners, participate in the community, build rapport, build your list, and develop trust.

No, it's not a quick fix. But rather than having to run bait and switch tactics that tick people off, you instead have people calling you when another online peddler contacts them to get your opinion because they know they can trust you.

sloanjim,

This is a general rant, not against you personally. It sounds like that WSO absolutely sucks. Especially when you are working locally, it's really important to build relationships.

I have no idea what that WSO recommends, but from the comments made, it sounds like it is supposed to make them think you are offering some sort of free publicity?

If you want to try to salvage the contacts, my suggestion to you is to actually follow through on some free publicity for them.

Say, "Hey, I'll be honest with you. I'm just starting my business and I'm looking for some opportunities to prove what I can do. I would like to write a press release for your business, free of charge, and use it for a case study for my services."

Then actually do it. Find out what story will give them the most coverage, don't forget the online angle, and write it. Go and sit down with them, find out a more about their business, take some nice pictures, etc.

I don't know what you are offering, but a press release hits in several ways. The business gets the benefit of traditional publicity. It has much more credibility than an ad. It also has multiple benefits for them online: it can help with their Google Places rankings, backlinks, building authority in their niche, etc.

So that they actually realize what kind of benefit it has for them, you might want to consider getting a Google or other sort of number that you can track calls through to include in the press release. Check their rankings on relevant keywords prior to the submission, note their traffic stats and how many backlinks they have.

Then, find all the contacts for the papers for your immediate local papers and the closest metro areas. Try to actually get a real person that reviews and approves them. If you can, go and sit down with them and tell them what you are working on. If you have a connection and they know who you are, they are much more likely to run it.

If they know they can count on you to send them good stuff, your publish rate will be astronomical . . . trust me. I don't know if it's because my local papers always need content, or if it's because they know me and like me (I think they do at least,) or if it's because I also publish the press releases online, but I can't remember one press release that I've submitted that hasn't gotten published in at least one, if not all three, of my local papers.

Submit the press release to the local papers addressing your contact individually. Then submit the press release to a PR wire service.

If you want to do this, you're actually in luck because there is currently a crazy cheap WSO going on for a newswire submission service for $39 a month for unlimited submissions. This is slap-me-stupid introductory pricing.

Go look at any PR submission service and you'll see what I mean. PRweb charges something like $80 for a basic submission. Their premium submission, the one where you actually get links within the release, is $200. And they are the most affordable service. I'm talking about REAL newswires, not the glorified article directories that people try to claim are press release directories.

So this is something that has real value. Just the submission alone would cost $200, straight cost. Not including the writing of the release, which on the low end would be $75 to $200 for real writing the in the real world (forget about bargain basement prices on the WF.)

And then track the results. And show them. And ask for a testimonial and referrals.

And then YOU take those results and write a press release for YOUR business and submit it.

"Hey Im a new web designer in town, I Do___________ and _________. Just briefly, we are calling around trying to let everyone know who we are, and hopefully drum up some business....I wondered if you folks have any web projects in mind, or on the back burner, that I could help you with".

That's as straight forward as it comes, and if you say it to enough people you will get business. I guess once all the poser offline wso writers have run their course, we will get past all the made up tricks and back into real principles that work.

Is this the WSO that mentions using a cellphone? If so, I thought it was rather clever... but as I was reading it, I kept trying to figure out ways to reword the "approach" so I would be more comfortable or maybe even "honest" with it. Maybe, for that reason, it's still rusting on my hard drive.

Love your style John. Nice. (Shame on me as I've got your training sitting on my desktop. I gotta crack that open.)

I could not hold this back.

I have seen a large number of people on this forum
and in there products talk about sending emails for
prospecting.

I even watched a video of a pretty well know guy
say that B2B emails are not covered by the Can-Spam laws.

I would highly suggest you type "can spam law business to business"
into your browser.

Here is a good place to start...

CAN-SPAM Act: A Compliance Guide for Business | BCP Business Center

Even if it wasn't illegal you are positioning yourself all wrong.

Bringing back an old thread but I am curious...are you referring to the "Private Practice" course or some other?

As with most things, when you invest in a WSO you should use it as a guide to complement your business and marketing model.

What works for one person isn't guaranteed to work 100% in the same way for another person, no matter what the WSO seller says.

Without being unfair to any product creator, they say the things that need to be said so people buy. The majority is truthful but more are embellished or no one will buy.

(We all know that to be a fact)

We live and learn and I'm confident you can do it because you have the right attitude.

Drop me a PM if you need specific help and I'll be happy to help if I can

BAYO

Why is everyone afraid to say what WSO it was?, I don't get it.

Was it this one?. start-earning-high-monthly-retainer-fees-now-start-legitimate-private-practice-today-75.html

This makes me nervous to buy anything through a WSO. Most of the reviews seem to be positive, yet I know everyone can't be thrilled with offers all the time. The only wso I've purchased didn't seem to match the sales copy posted, but seemed good information, just nothing that I could use..
coincidentally, I also got a piece of malware the same day (not connected at all, but coincidences make me nervous)
I look at some of the WSO's and unfortunately (maybe) one thing they have in common is compelling sales copy. lol
I agree with a lot of what's posted here. honest reviews would help. I don't expect to get "the overnight success secret" I only want great information to help me move forward..

I also know of the wso you speak of. I actually requested a refund because I thought the tactics were deceipful. I have been meaning to review that one

I was.lucky that when I started.getting into my offline busines, web developing at the time, I lived in a trendy neighborhood. I frequented the shops and got to know the business owners. Using my inner network and trust I started from here. I built a reputation and rarely ever cold called unless business was a complete drag.

So never lie, no bait and switches. Become an authority on what you know.

Dear Deidra, which word was it? Please tell! Use PM if needed.


Thomas

Business owners aren’t as dumb as some WSO creators would have you believe.

I did the exact same thing Diedra did with it. I changed a couple of others but that was the main one. I've had some success with that wso as well so I'm certainly not gonna rip on it. I spotted it right in my reading and thought alright that part isn't gonna work for me. But like I said I'm not gonna trash the whole wso just because of one small ethical judgement that is so stupid simple to fix. I know for a fact this service sells while being up front with business owners.

I would leave a bad review on that wso personally... Sounds rather shady

I also recently purchased this WSO and was hesitant about the "opening lines." Don't think there are any refunds on it and with it being more expensive than most at $27, I want to at least try it.

I'm also curious to know about any success others may have had with tweaking it.

Thanks for giving tips Deidra.

First of all, just because it was a WSO, doesn't mean that person is a Guru.
You should never have to deceive a business owner into using your services.
I have never sent a unsolicited email in the close to 4 years I have been doing offline marketing. I would say 95% of my clients, I had to build a relationship with them and it wasn't until the 4th or 5th connection that I even set and appointment. Then a few more to close the deal. If you want the $1,500 to $5,000 contracts, you have to put in the time.

Thought I'd chime in. I'm a bit of a skeptic when it comes to those WSOs but I have bought a couple (SEO and a plugin) but I don't believe that its a good idea to follow everything to a 'T'. Everyone's situation is unique.

If I do decide to buy a system such as the one mentioned, I'd definitely tweak it to my market, my business' positioning, my brand but then again, I'm building a business and not looking to become an overnight billionaire.

I really hate the cliches but I can't resist here - if someone told you to jump off a bridge would you ? This wso was NOT about how to write an enticing email to businesses. It is about building a practice based on a service that could benefit a business. In the end how you relay that message to the owner is your call. (insert common sense here)