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Need Advice on Dealing with Prospect

by MzThing
14 replies
So, I have this one potential client. I'm trying to close the deal, but he's got some questions I just can't answer well. I'm looking for some advice on how to deal with this, or if I just need to cut this guy loose.

I'm not new to marketing, but I am new to having my own business and dealing with my own clients vs corporate people. I do small business marketing.

1. He keeps saying "hmmm but you don't have product marketing experience"

It's true that I have more experience in the service and nonprofit sector, but I do have some experience with product marketing, specifically financial products and a software system. When I say this, he just says "No I mean like similar to this..." - he is wanting to sell a dog accessory. I have tried explaining that a sound marketing strategy is based on research and doing well isn't necessarily tied to having experience in that exact niche, but no dice.

2. He basically keeps telling me he wants to know what his results will be before paying me to launch this product.

This guy has done zero product research before forming a factory and churning out this accessory - so he doesn't know what kind of sales to expect. But the thing is, neither do I, since I haven't done any market research yet. I don't know what demand is like or where that demand will be coming from (aside from the obvious). I don't know the target market yet and thus don't know their spending habits/demand for a product like this.

How can I even begin to approach this aspect? All I would have to compare to in terms of past products are very, very different campaigns involving heavy public relations efforts (not really appropriate for his business) and the financial products I mentioned that are apparently not product-y enough. How do you respond to "what results will I get?" type questions before you've even identified a target market? Am I expected to do the introductory strategy stuff before getting paid to "prove" I know how to get results?

I am feeling very lost and disheartened. Is my inexperience with pitches showing or is this client asking too much by wanting to know expected results?
#advice #dealing #prospect
  • Profile picture of the author Warrior Ben
    So what exactly are you trying to sell him?

    From my perspective, it sounds like you haven't done enough in terms of figuring out exactly what he wants. How did you come about this prospect and why did he meet with you?

    It seems to be that it is too early in the sales process to expect a sale because both of you are unsure about the market and the opportunities available.

    Here is what I would recommend: Sit down with the business owner and really understand what he is looking for. Does he need a webpage? SEO services? A social media presence? Ask him what is goals are for the company and product. Is he looking to primarily sell online or in retail outlets? You need to really figure out what is vision is for the product and then fit your services in accordingly.

    The reason you are getting the pushback on not having enough "experience" is because you haven't built the confidence that he needs to buy from you. To build that confidence you need to show him that you are about HIS needs and not about just landing the deal. By asking intelligent questions you will show him that you are interested in helping him and more importantly you will figure out exactly what it is that he will want to buy from you. You can then tailor your pitch accordingly.

    I hope this helps, but feel free to ask more questions if anything is unclear.

    -Ben
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    • Profile picture of the author MzThing
      Hi Ben,

      Thanks! I've actually spoken to him in depth about his needs; he will be selling this accessory exclusively online and will definitely need at the bare minimum a website, branding elements and SEO. This is his only product, although he hopes to expand in the future to other similar goods. What they're looking for is a strategy for launch, including market research, and concentrated marketing efforts to build sales in the months after launch (for starters) - what this part looks like would depend on the research and strategy phase.

      I suggested beginning with the strategy/marketing research and website aspect since we know that at minimum he needs a place to sell and people to sell to. He wants to commit to implementation right now, even without knowing what the strategy will look like. And he wants a guarantee there will be results and for me to tell him what results to expect.

      I have communicated that I can absolutely deliver the website/SEO/branding aspect and the research piece for them, and once we have that done I'll be able to help him set goals and proceed with a launch strategy and implementation. I guess I'm just not sure how to proceed with this client constantly asking what the results will be! I keep saying "I can't know that right now, what your business needs is some solid research first and that will inform where we go from there. Right now, you want to know who your market is so you can form better goals and tactics to reach those goals. I am absolutely available to help you with that when we get there."

      I feel like I'm trying to give him a solid Phase 1 and he wants me to report what results will be in Phase 2. Does that make sense? Am I being unclear to him?
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  • Profile picture of the author Warrior Ben
    So is this guy already producing the product? If so, I would recommend not pursuing him as a client.

    Here's why:

    You mentioned that he already formed a factory without doing any market research. Anybody who is willing to spend all this money on product development before doing any market research is an idiot. How can he possibly know what his return on investment will be if he has no idea how popular this product could be or what the market reach is? If he just thinks there are a ton of dog owners out there so selling dog collars must be a good business idea, and then doesn't do any further research, he probably won't be in business very long, if at all.

    Another scenario that crossed my mind is that maybe he is still in the planning phase of the business himself. He could be trying to get information from you for free before deciding whether to proceed. Do you know if he has a prototype even built? If so, has he started manufacturing yet? How big is his inventory?

    I get the feeling that this guy might be a big hassle of a client. If you do decide to proceed, I would be blunt with him and further explain that he has a lot of work to do. Give him a proposal and outline the different phases of market research, product development, product launch, etc. and have him hire you as a consultant.

    As for the specific words to say to get him to sign on, I'm kind of at a loss. It sounds like on one hand this guy is gung-ho on his business, but on the other he seems completely new to entrepreneurship by not at least scoping the size of the opportunity. Maybe you need to give him time to further develop his product and approach him when he is actually ready to launch. If he is ready to launch, then start giving him ideas for the launch (website, SEO, PPC, JV's with Dog Bloggers, etc...) and show him how much work it will actually be. Hopefully he will want to use you to do that work rather than do it himself.

    -Ben
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    • Profile picture of the author MzThing
      Originally Posted by Warrior Ben View Post

      If he just thinks there are a ton of dog owners out there so selling dog collars must be a good business idea, and then doesn't do any further research, he probably won't be in business very long, if at all.
      This seems to be pretty much the case! He has a factory and they're still working out the kinks in a couple things but he's going down there over Christmas to buy more machines and getting a 50,000 piece order in March. He's already sunk $50K+ into this.

      Originally Posted by Warrior Ben View Post

      I get the feeling that this guy might be a big hassle of a client. If you do decide to proceed, I would be blunt with him and further explain that he has a lot of work to do. Give him a proposal and outline the different phases of market research, product development, product launch, etc. and have him hire you as a consultant.
      You're absolutely right. I think because I have very little pitch experience I was doubting my instinct which was a flashing red alarm going "this is not a sound business plan!" I was supposed to write him a proposal anyway, so I think I will return the detailed phases of the project and stress that we're really starting from less than zero and this will take time and money (and after the market research phase he may even find there's no market! The perils of cart before the horse.)

      Thanks to both of you for your advice. It was such a relief to talk about this with people who understand the core issues instead of friends who can offer support but not much advice or direction. You confirmed for me that I wasn't being crazy to have qualms about this guy and it's okay to act in MY best interest and be more direct with my concerns and what it will take to get on track. I can't thank you both enough!
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  • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
    This is an "Eat That Frog!" issue--an up front objection. You must adopt the "Let's get real or let's not play" attitude. First, be ready to walk away--sounds like you are.

    Second, next time you and he sit down, say (and this is going to take guts: be tough, you're a 10!), "<his name><sigh>, I think we have a problem. You seem to find talking with me valuable, but every time we sit down I keep hearing you say 'Hmm but you don't have product marketing experience.' We need to talk about this. I mean, is this going to be a stumbling block for us? What is there that I can say or do to show you that I have the expertise to help you?"

    and be quiet and do not say a thing. Sit there silently and make him talk. It will be a bit uncomfortable, but this is how progress is made.

    He will either tell you that there's no way you can convince him, in which case you'll be happy to know it and not waste any more energy on this prospect; or, he'll drop it or give you proof criteria on how to show him you can do it. If he tries the "I want to see for free" line, stand your ground. He could be trying to grind you down. Be tough. "I don't work for free. Would you work for free?" You have value, you bring value to the table and that doesn't come for free.
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  • Profile picture of the author Warrior Ben
    Jason nailed it here and got to the point that I was attempting to by being blunt with him. Great job on sharing Jason! (Btw, I got your PM about the Webinar today, but obviously wasn't able to make it.)

    -Ben
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  • Profile picture of the author mjbmedia
    So if youre expecting a valuable long term relationship with this bozo then youd best do some work upfront for him to show you know what youre doing.

    Dog accessories huh? so get into some FB groups re dog owners, ditto forums and show them the product say to them its a trial version we are looking to commercialise it but we need to know is this something youd use, is it soemthing youd be prepared to buy and if so how much for?

    say you will give the respondees (by all means limit the number to a reasonable amount) the accessory for free (the bozo pays for that) and keep in touch with them and they can also be the R&D contacts (reasearch and development ) to improve the product and discover what they want next.

    if that doesnt impress him then he can go chew on a bone and it wont take you that much to do it (hardest part will be to get him to agree to give some freebies up but you can do that Im sure)
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    • Profile picture of the author deepestblue
      Originally Posted by mjbmedia View Post

      So if youre expecting a valuable long term relationship with this bozo then youd best do some work upfront for him to show you know what youre doing.

      Dog accessories huh? so get into some FB groups re dog owners, ditto forums and show them the product say to them its a trial version we are looking to commercialise it but we need to know is this something youd use, is it soemthing youd be prepared to buy and if so how much for?

      say you will give the respondees (by all means limit the number to a reasonable amount) the accessory for free (the bozo pays for that) and keep in touch with them and they can also be the R&D contacts (reasearch and development ) to improve the product and discover what they want next.

      if that doesnt impress him then he can go chew on a bone and it wont take you that much to do it (hardest part will be to get him to agree to give some freebies up but you can do that Im sure)
      Ding ding ding and we have a winner! This is precisely what the factoryman should have done from day one and he could have not only saved himself $50,000 but also could have tweaked the product to make it *exactly* what the target market is looking for.

      I believe it was Ed Dale who when speaking about market research said something to the effect of in the age of the internet, there is simply no excuse for failure in business. He was right, and the process outlined by mjbmedia explains exactly why.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
    To the 2 posters above me: Why would you give away free expertise in the vague, undefined hope that you can somehow impress this person into paying you for it eventually?

    There's no criteria for success in this situation--when will you have "proven" to this person that you are valuable to them? You haven't determined if you're a 'fit'. What if the guy has no money, and is using you? And do you like spending all your time doing work for free? I don't and I won't.

    This could be a situation where a monkey's paw is valuable--a small investment at the start, to be deducted from the larger fee later.

    If you, on the other hand, are so desperate for business that you'll get involved with anybody, you are going to get into trouble. You will end up in bed with customers who can't pay you, want the moon, and complain loudly in public about you. Being tough and asking the uncomfortable question to qualify your prospect is the very best next step.

    Now I do agree with the research process defined by mjbmedia: but if you're going to implement it, you must charge for it. You and the work you do are valuable!
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    • Profile picture of the author mjbmedia
      Originally Posted by kaniganj View Post

      To the 2 posters above me: Why would you give away free expertise in the vague, undefined hope that you can somehow impress this person into paying you for it eventually?
      Nowhere have I said I would do it for free.

      The OP seemed to be desperate to hold onto this potential client and IMO this is a good way of him being able to do that, that does not mean that I would do it though.
      The initial work really wouldnt take that many hours of time as it would mostly be waiting for responses to a few well positioned and worded feelers.

      Now if the OP done this, then went to the prospect with it ready to present he would be in a position of massive power and could likely negotiate far better long term terms as the OP would have all the information (or majority of it) that the prospect really wants and needs.

      We dont have to charge for every bit of work we do, it depends on the benefits of the long term relationship that will come from it, the long term value of each client, if this prospect does make a success (mainly in part down to the work the OP does upfront and continuing) and goes onto make many more products then the LTV could be massive and well worth giving 3-10 hours up at the beginning.

      At the moment it seems like the prospect isnt biting so unless things change its either move on and lose him or do something like I suggested. Now if the OP moves on and then in 3 years time reads this guy has multi productised his business the OP would be a bit pissed off.

      In business you have to take risks, if you dont you're unlikely to grow much, to me this wouldnt be much of a risk as the OP would be giving the prospect exactly what he needs (even though he may not know it yet) turn up with multiple ways to contact his target market , know who they are, where they are, know what they want, what theyre prepared to pay for it etc etc and thats powerful info that the business owner will HAVE to take onboard, but the only way he gets access to it is by singing up to a long term agreement with the OP.

      Even if he's a complete moron and says no I'll do it myself, the OP can contact other such product manufacturers with the info for a price.
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      • Profile picture of the author MzThing
        Originally Posted by mjbmedia View Post

        Nowhere have I said I would do it for free.

        The OP seemed to be desperate to hold onto this potential client and IMO this is a good way of him being able to do that, that does not mean that I would do it though.

        ....

        Now if the OP done this, then went to the prospect with it ready to present he would be in a position of massive power and could likely negotiate far better long term terms as the OP would have all the information (or majority of it) that the prospect really wants and needs.
        Well, first, I just want to say I'm not desperate for this guy's business, sorry if I gave that impression. I was more wondering if other people's prospects ever had similar objections and if I was right to move on if the prospect could not see the value in doing some sort of research before deciding on a sales goal. (In this case it seems more like he wants me to guarantee sales right this minute, which makes me uncomfortable for obvious reasons.)

        I like your idea very much, and I think I would be willing to do that for a prospect in the future. I don't think it's a good fit for this guy because I don't think he even understands that his business is a no-go without this kind of data. His initial response to everything seems to be "yes but how many can you sell! tell me right now!"

        What I ended up doing was sending a proposal stressing that, without any business research ever having been done, the market research was a vital first step that couldn't be glossed over in favour of random projections for "down the line". They don't even know if they have "down the line" to project for, since they never bothered to look into the market before setting up the business. If they don't buy that and are still demanding sales projections at this point I just have to wash my hands, I think.
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  • Profile picture of the author Aaron Doud
    Yeah honestly I am not sure I would even continue on with this guy. He clearly has money to burn but no plan. If I could make the plan and he would pay me for it then might take the chance.

    But this business seems like it has one foot in the grave before it has even got off the ground.
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  • Profile picture of the author RentItNow
    Pay you $100 and get a $100 google adword credit. Run test ads for a ton of ideas and concepts and see what sticks. This way he and you will know there is even a market for it. Maybe try a bit of facebook as well. Once he sees the results then sell more and more services. Always start with that relationship building service and work your way up.
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    I have no agenda but to help those in the same situation. This I feel will pay the bills.
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