timpears

Personally I think that is pretty low. In my thinking along these lines, I was thinking in the 25% to 35% commission. Starting off lower and giving a bonus for selling the whole card. Remember that you make nothing unless the sale is made, so the sale is the most important part.

How long do you figure it will take to sell a client? If they only close a couple a day, that is only $100 a day. Not much for a sales man to make them feel like they are accomplishing anything of substance. And once they figure out what you are doing, they will just take your business away from you. This isn't rocket science. Pitching the prospects is the hardest part. My theory is that if I can make as much, or close to it, as the sales person, I would be happy. I can always hire more sales people.

Just my $0.02 and worth exactly what you paid for it.

Tim Pears

timpears

I would love to know how you went about hiring this sales person. I think you are getting a bargain at 10%, but good for you. I hate selling, but know nothing about hiring sales people. I was thinking of asking my son-in-law as he is a marketing director and deals with this all the time. But I don't think he has time.

I am worried about them thinking I am a start up and they can just take over if they like it and it works well for them. But I am interested in how you found this person and what things you were looking for or asked them in an interview?

Tim Pears

timpears

Nice site Gregg, I am going to steal some ideas from it. Hope you don't mind.

Tim Pears

jrod014

Looks awesome! Glad you are taking action. I should be done with my website tonight.

How is the prospecting going? Sold all of your slots yet?

Jerry

RedShifted

@jgsketch thanks for the advice thats exactly what I was looking for. Sometimes the simplest things can be the hardest for me to figure out.

Ok now I have a pretty basic graphics editing question. I know how to use photoshop and am pretty good as far as manipulating graphics come. Except now I'm realizing why people pay graphic designers to get this stuff done. Not really the images/deals I'm having problems with. Its one thing mainly which is the company name.

Every business I go into obviously has their own way of writing their name. In a certain color/font/style and what not.
I've got most my graphics laid out but now I'm trying to copy names (of places I will be going into) and am at a crossroad here.

I can go about it in 2 ways.
1 - scan their name and import it into photoshop, which means I need to get a faster scanner lol.

2 - try to copy the company name matching the font/style/color etc. My main issue is the font companies use for their name. I'd rather be able to create their name in photoshop vs scanning it as it allows me more control over the name and tends to look better too from experience.

So my question is - is there any easier way to go about getting company names on the coupon? How would a professional graphic designer go about it? Scan? Or make from scratch/trial and error?

Thanks guys!
edit: ooook to make matters even more complicated.

I have a pizzaria I'm working on. Using their menu to make a mockup coupon. On the menu their name appears red and in script, reading Chiafullos.
I decided maybe they have a facebook with the name and then I can just swipe it off their facebook which would be faster. Find their facebook and get excited. See however the name on their faceboo is written in a TOTALLY different style and color, but for the same business?

What gives? I guess for mockups its not the biggest deal and I can figure this stuff out as I sell spots but this does kinda annoy me not knowing how to go about this.

bob ross

On the live teleseminar tomorrow I'm going to go over this in detail! I've been in direct sales a long time and I know what works for salespeople to be happy yet still make you profitable.

jrod014

I would assume scanning it then making it a vector so it can be scaled to any size.

mrfriend

Hard to believe that one can make such a big money doing offline marketing, well thanks for sharing the method, i would like to give it a shot.

RedShifted

Yeh I just wasn't sure if there was a smarter way to go about it.
Scanning for sure seems the quickest I think I honestly just need a new scanner. The images don't seem to come in perfectly and I'm getting these small grainy offsets on the lines of the name its got to be the scanner doing it I think.

RedShifted

Well the reality is that TONS & TONS of companies use valpak/community coupon/discount mailers/etc so the money is already there if you ask me.

All Bob did was create a simpler more effective system that is better than what those biz's are doing... and selling it for around the same/a bit more maybe. Either way the money is absolutely there you just have to not be a social recluse to get that money.

jrobconsult

IMHO, Tim you would be paying way too much. If a salesperson, does this full time and can only sell 2 a day, that isn't much a salesperson.

I have 15 ads for sale and it brings in $7,200 and takes them 2 weeks. If I pay them 10% which is $720 and a bonus of $400 that would be over $550 a week for a mediocre salesperson at best. What about the next month, how hard would it be to sell to the same people and offer 5-10% commission on repeat sales.

If you are worry about them stealing your idea, have them sign a non-compete for 3 years. I doubt it would happen and they don't have all the tricks we do.

I am working on a compensation plan, but will wait until what Bob suggests. You will get plenty of replies from Craigslist, but most are not qualified. I would meet with them at least twice in person. This will weed out the ones looking for money and no work. I know from past experience.

One last note, I saw on Craigslist a UPS store was promoting the EDDM program for 38 Cents. I did not see a minimum and that price would give us a $1,000 or more profit on a solo mailing.

San Antonio Estate Liquidators
Estate Sales San Antonio

timpears

Could you share the URL of this listing? I would like to maybe reference this in my prospecting.

Tim Pears

jrobconsult

Every Door Direct Mail

San Antonio Estate Liquidators
Estate Sales San Antonio

Vagabond 007

I just got my postcards in the mail that Bob sent me. WOW these things are awesome looking!!

Seriously, they are very impressive! I felt this way all along, but after seeing them in person, I'm even more convinced...I HIGHLY suggest you get a demo made to use when selling the ads. It will go a long way in helping you sell if the biz owner can see how impressive these postcards look in person.

InVizion

Just bought the WSO, awesome! Thanks Bob, I look forward to putting this into action.

rolltide

how much were the postcards vagabond

keldog

Ran into the two different logos/nameplates situation often. It was a small pain doing the search to rectify but usually faster than relying on the advertiser.

First off, can they email you their most recent version of their logo?

Try an images search using their name. Many times I've found usable logos this way.

Use a scan of the logo as a template to remake it (depending on the difficulty/time involved)

Here's what I might do: check to see if their facebook page has been recently updated. My guess is "no" and what you find on their website is the most recent version. I could be wrong, and you might be able to extrapolate that once you dig a little further.

Go to their website and look for any downloadable material they might provide. In the case of a pizzaria it's hopefully a menu in pdf format.

Look to see if any of the downloadable material has their logo on it. By the way, if it doesn't look good in the pdf to start with don't use it. In other words if the pdf wasn't created correctly to start with it won't do you much good.

If it does look good, download that to your desktop. Open that pdf with photoshop at 300dpi, cmyk. Crop down to the logo (getting rid of everything else) and save. Now you have a fairly decent copy of their logo that you can save other copies from for other work too. Not ideal, but a quick, down and dirty way I've used many times for decent mock-ups.

Rarely will the logo swiped (for a good reason) from their website work either. I know you weren't mentioning it but someone else might be wondering. The resolution is too low and should not be used for printing purposes. This is your product. You want it to look good. Especially if you are trying to sell a new advertiser. You don't want them looking at a crappy logo, or crappy anything else for that matter.

In the end don't worry to much if it is the wrong logo. It has been my experience that if they like the offer they see (the offer you are making) they will quickly supply the correct logo. It suddenly becomes much more important to them. That's a good thing.

You may be wondering why I am making a big deal about this seemingly little thing. Believe me it isn't a little thing to the business owner. They want to look good. Make your mock-up look good. Used a "mock-up" technique many times to get deals and close deals.

Better looking mock-ups perform way better! Take the little extra time to make it look good. Whatever you do try to avoid scanning and using that.

[Conversely if you are waiting on a particular advertiser to provide a "quality" logo before going to print, you could send a proof with a terrible looking logo (pixelated or some other flaw) that usually gets them in motion. Used it to great effect at times]

Having said all that I wonder how important mock-ups will really be after selling out the first card and getting it printed. That should be all the mock-up you need. From what I understand they look awesome.

By the way I would recommend getting their approval, in writing, on the ad before going to print. I haven't seen this written about yet in this thread and the reason I bring it up is that it is very important to cover your butt now that some are getting out there and doing this. Get them (every one of the advertisers) to sign off on a "proof". Very important. Can't stress it enough. If something is printed incorrectly they will want their money back. If they signed off on the proof with it that way, it is their problem. Your mistake = your problem.

I suggest email (or fax) for proofing as snail mail is cumbersome and slow. Fax is also very good and a faxed signature is perfectly legal as far as courts accepting the validity of the approval. Started in the ad business before email was even a choice. When it came along things moved much faster. Take advantage. Out of the 3, faxes were most used. Most everyone had a fax machine and your proof didn't end up in the spam folder.

Many of the owners will ask when they will see a proof. Most have done some sort of print advertising before and will want to see a proof for their "OK". In fact, you will be surprised at the relieved reaction you'll get when you inform them they will be seeing a proof before you "go to print". It seems after they hear that, the questions stop and the check writing starts. Make this part of your routine. Get all advertisers to sign off. You'll avoid problems later. Trust me.

Get them to sign off fast too, before it goes to the back burner or buyer's remorse sets in. Come back 9 days later to get their approval and you might find many of them trying to back out/cancel. My experience.

Oops:
As I am re-reading the question I realize I may have a terminology issue here and instead of re-writing all my blather I will just clarify something (as I know it).

-Typically in the printing industry a "mock-up" will be used to help sell a deal. To show a potential client what the ad might look like "if" we were to transact business.

-Whereas a "proof" is after the transaction, but before printing. The deal has been made, the money paid. A signature on the proof of the actual ad is all that's needed to be sure everything is correct on the ad they paid for.

My response may have seemed odd. Sorry if I misunderstood. I do stand by what I wrote, though it was a little off course, it applies.

Still, get the proof signed off

I've attached a sample of one we've used in the past. Would need to be reworked for this, but you get the idea.

Attached Files

proof_sample.pdf (325.1 KB, 380 views)

secoff

Thanks for this. It's good information - all of it. And I really appreciate the sample proof. It will come in handy and I think it should be considered "critical" to anyone who is serious about this type of business model.

RedShifted

Awesome! Keldog that was REALLY helpful I can't thank these forums enough.

I don't think that part about the proof is in the WSO unless I skipped over it but I just don't remember seeing anything about that.

At least I know now what its suppose to look like that would have been another question a week from today but now I don't have to ask. =]

SirThomas

I'll just add to clarify the above.

Your piece needs to exceed only ONE of the MAX dimensions to qualify as a flat. If your card is 8.5"x11", it exceeds the 6-1/8" height and therefore it is considered a flat. As a matter of fact even 8.5"x8.5" would also be a flat.

I hope everything is clear now.


Thomas

greggorio28

Getting 100 fresh 14pt UV coated samples printed up from my local guy for cheap...not a necessity but DEF adds some extra appeal when you leave a sample mailer with each new prospect.

Pumped up for Bob's seminar tonight! Lots of great info will be discussed for sure

Professional graphic designer and entrepreneurial Jedi Knight in training...check out my portfolio

timpears

Bottom line, the 9x12 that we are going to be sending out does qualify, and nothing else really matters I think. Unless we want to start folding them, which will take away from part of the selling point.

Tim Pears

jrod014

Thats at 6pm PST correct? I archived all my emails, lol. I'll have to sift through them to find the info.


Greg,

Did you ever start another DBA for the postcard brand? Or, are you just adding it as a service to your existing design business?

Jerry

greggorio28

Hey Jerry, yes its 6pm PST but honestly I forget if he emailed us the link/details....Ill have to follow up with that

And I am branding & distributing the mailer as its own entity, but producing it under my sole proprietorship design business.....maybe that will change down the road but for now it makes complete sense to keep it simple

Professional graphic designer and entrepreneurial Jedi Knight in training...check out my portfolio

jrod014

I found the link. I actually replied to it and purchased the demo postcards.

I'm going to do the same. Right now I have a DBA and will trademark ("TM") the branded postcard until I can LLC it.

greggorio28

Jerry can I pick your brain about what you just wrote? I am also considering an LLC for 2012 since I am handling more work, income (hopefully) and multiple businesses and wanna make sure I am protected from personal liability. I was also thinking of TM'ing the postcard because as far as I know....its the only one with that name and I may wanna branch this out statewide down the road. So....whats involved with TM'ing and would I still need to have a TM if I decide to upgrade my design business to an LLC?

Thanks man,
Gregg

Professional graphic designer and entrepreneurial Jedi Knight in training...check out my portfolio

jrod014

Sure, no problem.

I just want to say that I'm no lawyer but this is what I plan on doing personally.

"Anyone who claims rights in a mark may use the TM (trademark) or SM (service mark) designation to alert the public to the claim, regardless of whether they have filed an application with the USPTO."

Source:How do I use the TM, SM and Registered symbols?

You can use the TM symbol to claim the rights of your postcard brand without registering. I plan on using the TM until I get enough revenue and branch out to different counties and cities. Then I'll apply for a registered trademark. It's good to do your research and make sure the name is available not only in your local area but, make sure another business doen't have a registered trademark on a national level.

you can search trademarks here, click the "search marks" link:
Trademarks Home

So if your business is well established, then you file for a LLC and pay the franchise board tax ($800 here in CA) then the business would be legit in the public's eyes. So your business name would be an LLC but the actual logo/brand would only have a TM.

greggorio28

Gotcha, thanks man. Yeah, I'm going to go the LLC route first thing in January to protect the biz....then Ill register the name in a couple months to keep it safe

Professional graphic designer and entrepreneurial Jedi Knight in training...check out my portfolio

keldog

Hope I am not hijacking the thread by doing this but if you liked the proof sample I have a couple other things that might be helpful with this endeavor.

I have lurked long enough and this is a chance for me to give back a little.

Firstly...

You (or your designer) are going to need to get artwork from these advertisers. Again, do this asap, don't let them get cold feet. (By the way "artwork" and "ad copy" are technically two different things. "Artwork" = graphics/logos/photos. "Ad Copy" = the text/words/numbers on the ad)

Either pick the artwork up while you are there or make arrangements to get it, soon! Very normal in the print industry to be pressured by time too, so the advertisers are kind of used to it. Most understand "drop dead" dates. Has to happen by (this date), or it aint happenin'.

It's ok to get ad copy via fax (you are going to retype it anyway), not artwork. You'd be surprised how many advertisers thought they could fax me their logo and it would work ok. But I digress...

I attached an "Artwork Request" we used in the past. Again it needs a little reworking but it's close to what you could easily use.

Sometimes I would fax and email this request and make a phone call: "I'm sending over some info about getting your artwork to us". Simple. Also, if they already have a designer they want to use (some do), the designer will need to know the art requirements and you may need to send this to them.

Secondly... as I stated before, the fax system seemed to work best for sending and receiving proofs. You can get fax software for your computer and as soon as you create the ad paste it onto the template (the proof sheet) change the names and dates, and fax it. No need for a stand alone fax machine.

Also, the fax software will let you keep a digital copy of what you faxed to them and what they faxed back to you. And you'll always have record of when you sent the proof, too. Dates are important. And no need to print these and waste valuable ink

You may think the advertisers will need to see the proof in color, and some do. However the vast majority of them were fine with a fax of the proof. As long as they knew it was going to be printed in color, it was fine. They typically (not always) get it off the fax machine, check it over, sign off and fax it right back. Of course the 80/20 rule kicks in and they are not all that easy.

If they bring it up, tell them you'll be happy to email it to them (so they can see colors). I always made a phone call after the email though to see that they got it, or at least tell them I sent it. Tell them to check their spam folder too. Ends up there sometimes.

BTW, I think it would be a good idea to hire a designer that can design the ads and take care of the artwork request and proof approval process for you. It may cost a few bucks but worth it the end, I think.

Anyway, hope that helps. If I think of anything else to share I will.

EDIT: On further reflection, the full color ads being created for this postcard probably won't fax well. Our ads made liberal use of white space (no/few backgrounds) so were easier to proof through fax. Although quick and easy, faxing your proofs for this probably isn't going to work as well as it did for us (depending of course on the design)

Attached Files

artrequest_sample.pdf (192.0 KB, 262 views)

jrod014

Ok, I just got off chat with uprinting.com. I have used them in the past for my business cards and they are super fast. They deliver on time.

Best of all They price match!

Check out how the chat went.

Jane: Hi Jerry

Jane: Welcome to UPrinting Live Chat. How may I help you today?

jerry: do you price match?

Jane: Yes.

Jane: May I know what product is this please?

jerry: I received the following from gotprint.com

jerry: postcard 9x12 14pt gloss coated cover with UV (C2S) color both sides 10,000 $919.40 shipping $181.48 to zip 91311

Jane: I will send you a price match form and fill all the information needed, then email it back to me.

jerry: great!

Jane: I will forward it to my Manager for approval. She will send you an email regarding the price match.

Jane: May I have your email address please?

jerry: jerry@xxxxxx.com

Jane: Thank you.

Jane: I will send you the form in a short while. You can check your inbox in 5 minutes.

jerry: ok, thanks for your help!

Jane: You are welcome!


Just an FYI for those who want a back up option.

Jerry

sandalwood

If you go to the usps every door direct site and follow their simple instrux you will see they lay it all out for you. It is a pick and click for the streets and carrier routes you want delivered. Don't over complicate the darned thing w/o visiting their site. It is that easy.

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nelsonbiglar

That is a very sweet thing... thanks for sharing!

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Abby Haukongo

Is it best to create my mock up exactly the size of the finished product or can I print it out in a smaller size.

dkbiz92

can you post a sample of your work? Id love to see it!

Marketing Mechanic- Online marketing and direct mail marketing

Abby Haukongo

Not done yet. In fact I am just starting, but wasn't sure whether I should print out in full size or not.

timpears

In order to make the impact that these cards show, you need to have the full sized cards. Either get some samples printed at a printer, or get the sample pack from Bob. It is only $17 and well worth it.

It doesn't matter how well you explain it to your prospect, they will not see it unless you show them the real cards. That is just the way people are. Spend the couple bucks that it takes to do this business and do it right.

Tim Pears

godinu

I also will attest to the power of large cards, not as a seller but recipient of them. Until recently, Bed, Bath & Beyond had the largest, most noticeable cards that were received in the mail. Lately a chocolate shop has been sending out huge ones that require folding to fit in a mailbox and there is NO WAY to miss these. It's a great business idea for sure.

You have exactly as much potential as you believe you do

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SirThomas

First page of this thread. Bob's work.

http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-...onth-hero.html

http://i41.tinypic.com/2ciecf9.jpg

Thomas

warrioradam

Sorry short update been really busy trying to get my spots filled up.

I have sold 7 spots in 8 days. My goal is to get this mailing out so I am lowering the prices of some of my ads I need to get it out so I can refine it and kill it in other towns.

Currently I have.....

A pizza place that bought two spots front/back-doing a buy one get one
a satellite company that bought two spots-free month of tv with new service
tobacco shop-20% off excludes cigarettes
tanning place-40% off
Spa/Salon-30% off


Still need a few more restaurants, an auto place, and a dentist or chiropractor, and a tax person.

bob ross

Great Job!

SirThomas

Great stuff Adam, congratulations! The first card is crucial. What do you mean by lower pricing?

Thomas

Daniel Evans

This is interesting and bang on time given that I've just began to explore this.

Do Post Offices in the UK offer the same kind of service?

Do you ever market online or are all the businesses who opt in sourced face to face?

rolltide

Congrats Adam. What price points did you sell the ads at?

warrioradam

I've offered huge incentive in buying two or more spaces by doing a buy one get one 100 dollars off.

I have also as an added incentive to my clients that have bought if they refer to a business they get a 100 off.

Because of those two things alone it accounts for 5 spaces of my business. The other two were just on the spot buyers.

rolltide

congrats adam. how much are you hoping to net on your first card?

greggorio28

Wow, congrats Adam....thats really freaking amazing! I sold 2 out of about 30 pitches so far. Kinda bummed out but not losing focus. I just need to re-evaluate my entire situation in regard to pitching. Got about 12 MAYBE's today. They all said they need to discuss this with other owners/management but Im still kinda bummed.

Any selling tips you can remember off the top of your head?

Professional graphic designer and entrepreneurial Jedi Knight in training...check out my portfolio

Katie C

I have a question.

Once you get these business's to agree to buy ad space, how do you form an agreement, or i guess contract, saying that they will pay you in exchange for the ad? Something saying that they can't back out once everything is printed.

secoff

Good question, Katie.

I recommend always getting a deposit of at least half of the payment (if not the whole thing) at the time of the commitment. The balance is due once they receive the proof of their ad and sign off on it. Nothing goes to print until all monies from all advertisers have been received. In my case, advertisers will forfeit the deposit if they don't pay the balance or change their minds. (Should that happen, I'll sell the ad space to someone else at a one-time deep discount.)

-Xavier

RedShifted

Katie this is called a "proof" I believe and has been talked about in this thread already.

I think people also posted examples but I'm too lazy to go look. Anyway you merely provide a picture of the final ad they are agreeing too on a simple contract saying this is what x agreed on what date and just have a sign box on the bottom or top. You can find samples just by searching for "proof" I believe or "post card proofs" and you can see how they're written.

And yes getting a deposit is a must otherwise when you try to collect payment you might get some indecisive ones trying to change their mind.

Sebulba

By the time everything is printed you have been payed, so they can't back out.

Seb

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