My system gets me 90% of meetings with owners and a 50%+ closing rate.

70 replies
Hey guys! My name is Geoffrey Williams and a friend told me about this site. I've got some good advice off this forum so I decided to give back and share my system.


I've been making money online and offline for awhile and after lurking on here for awhile I decided to let you guys see my system that makes me a majority of my money (thousands a month) and gets me high conversion rates in both meetings and closing. Anyone can do this, I'm a college student so I don't have any crazy accolades that make people want to talk to me. Also, a good way to make great friends and contacts in the business world.

By the way, I've done this without a webiste, twitter, facebook page, and business cards. When trying to sell to offline business this just seems useless.

The Strategy
I know that relationships sell better than any advertising in the world (case in point: relatives or friends are usually most people's first sale)

So I need to contact cold leads and make them friends, dig for their problems, show value, and then close.
I call this a "set". To complete a set you must get "ok" from all four points listed above.

I break every year into 12 quarters (each month is a quarter), In each quarter there are 4 weeks. In those 4 weeks I run this one "set" on about 15-20 business; sometimes less, sometimes more.

This can work with anything your trying to sell and is very flexible. Meaning you can sell anything you want and not have to shove your one product or service down someone's throat ( more on this in a second week).

Week 1: Getting 90% of the meetings I go after
Contacting possible leadsI've always hated cold calling because you can't see the reactions of someone on the phone; also, its very easy for someone just hang up, lie, or just say no.

Since in week one we just want to build report this is how I get 90% of the meetings I'm after.

Dress nice, walk in to the business with one sheet of blank paper ( this brings stress levels down, if someone sees you with a briefcase or folder and in a suite they start thinking "oh great, a salesman, how fast can we get this guy out"). Then to further disarm I will say this to the front desk clerk or hostess

"Hey, is the owner in I would like to talk to him about important issues"

Make sure this is quick and strong (be sure to smile of course). The longer you talk the lower your precived value is and you want to make yourself look important enough to not look like a salesman. (the whole point is to position yourself as a non-salesman)

Quick point: make sure you be a stealth ninja and know his/her name beforehand. If you can't find it online when you walk in be extra observant.

Then the Boss/Owner will come out and I will follow it up like this:

"Hey Mr. Smith, my name is Geoffrey Williams I'm starting a business soon helping (whatever, it doesn't really matter at this point) can I ask you three (always odd number questions 3 or 5. Even numbers make it sound longer) questions it will take 5 mins of your time."

This gets me a meeting atleast 90% of the time. Usually the only time it doesn't work is if he/she isn't there in which if that's the case I come back when he/she will be there.

Ok, so your sitting with the owner/boss have three very broad questions that have everything to do about him and his business and (this is the most important part) NOTHING ABOUT YOU OR YOUR BUSINESS SERVICES OR YOUR LIFE. He/she doesn't care nor should he/she. Your questions should be report building questions, making the owner feel amazing, respected, and admired. The more you make it about him and his accomplishments the more the owner will like you.

Examples of questions I ask:

"So, Mr Smith the first thing I have to ask is you've been is business for x years, that's amazing, whats your secret to being successful for this long?"

"What was your proudest moment in business?"

"How does your family like having a (italin chef, plumber, bartender(if he owns a liqour store) around the house?" -----} this is usually said in jest trying to get him to talk about his/her family. If you can get the owner so comfortable that he starts talking about his kids your golden!

Finally, you say this exactly:

"Thank you so much for being friendly Mr. Smith, starting a business can be hard and its good to see you doing good, its great motivation. Do you have an email address so I can ask you some follow-up questions?"

I have never got a "No" from this. Then you send the owner a short email a day later saying this:

Hey Mr. Smith

Thanks for the great talk yesterday, I'm going to keep your words in my mind as I move forward and keep you updated. No response needed, just wanted to say thanks.

Thanks again
Geoffrey Williams.

Boom! A cold contact is now a warm lead. Estimated time frame 3-5 days.
Week 1 is done!

Week 2: Digging for information
The ninja work

OK, now in week two you will basically do the same as week 1 to get another meeting except this time its more detailed questions. Again, you need to do this right and not step into "salesman" territory".

You walk in and do them same as week 1. It should be easier and less stressful this week. Now you have to ask him detailed questions about his business without sounding like your setting him up to sale him something. A good strategy here is to make him feel like he is discovering the answers while you are having a conversation.

Some of the questions I ask:

"So, Mr Smith I see your doing yellow page ads are they good for getting leads/customers?" ---) trying to see what he spends on marketing

The rest of the questions should be aimed at trying to find problems you can solve. This is what I mean by flexible, instead of shoving your ideas and products you have to sell in his face that the client doesn't need; you on the other hand will be vigilant and look for common problems he is having and note the way he talks about these problems. Here are some questions that usually get those problems out:

"What are two things about your business that keep you up at night?"

"If you could change two things about your business what would they be"

"What would a perfect "enter business name" look like?"

Some possible answers you should be looking for

An actual conversation I had with a restaurant owner (paraphrasing)
"Well Geoffrey, I'm always worried about administrative costs, and I guess just making the restaurant nicer"

Me: "Nicer? how so?"

"just fancier, make us look legit..umm..our sign and menus. Things like that"
BING BING BING -- I hear easy money!

Me: "So you really worried about looking fancy. That makes total sense, in this day and age you have to look the part to get the clients"

"Yeah, Its just one of those things. You have to look like money to get money. Atmosphere is everything, I mean starbucks sucks but there atmosphere brings people in"

You should be taking everything he is saying down because you will come back and use his exact words to close him in week 4.

Some will say "but I don't know menu design I only know xyz". Stop being lazy and go on odesk, elance and craigslist and try to get as many quotes as you can.

Again, thank him for being friendly and send him a thank you email like above.

Week 3: Showing value
The hard work week.

Trust doesn't come easy, and to this point you and the owners should be very good acquaintances. Now to build trust and show your value to him you will be giving the owner something free.

This depends on you and what it sounded like the owner needed; however, it can be twisted into something your good at. Example: I'm good at facebook pages so what I did for the restaurant is make a very fancy facebook page with nice pictures and a online menu that looked ten times better than the one he had. Now he already had a facebook page, but I made a dummy one and went to show him.

Again, no calls, just head over there with a big smile and say "Mr. Smith I think your going to like what I have for you"

Show them the work you've done and make sure you show value. Don't let him think you just go around doing this for free. Example of what to say:

"Well, Mr. Smith I usually charge $280 for a fanpage but you've been so helpful these past weeks that I would be happy for you to have it as a token of my appreciation"

The look on there face is usually priceless and I usually get a free meal out of it (if its a restaurant).

Boom! You have now shown amazing value; not only doing $300 of work but then giving it away to a friend. Honestly, by now you should be able to sell them chewed gum.

A day later, send a email telling him you will keep up with the fanpage and if he liked the layout. Not really expecting a reply just something I want the owner to think about.

Week 4: The Close
Cha-Ching!

Here it is, the end of the "set". You are in week 4 and it is now time to close the deal. You SHOULD have been researching solutions to the owners problems and found a way to profit off of it. Example:

I my case it was obvious that he wanted a new image for his restuarant. Menus, Logo, Facebook (free work), and possibly website. I found a person on odesk that is good at menu design and logos and then contacted a online company that can take the designs and make it and ship it for pretty cheap. Then I design a quick mock up of how the website would look a and host it on a domain that I already own.

My final price for the whole package $1,600. Then broken down if they only want a couple of the services.

Note: That sometimes they only need something simple, if that's the case don't feel bad about making a small sale. I've made $100-$200 sales that have taken this much work just because I know that If they bought from me once they will do it again, and possibly for more money. Just be happy that money is coming in and you can convert them to a paying client.

Then you go in as a friend and tell him what you can do for him. I could seriously write a whole other post on closing because I have three favorite ones and I might If I get good feedback from this.


So, that is my system. If anyone asks what I sell, I just say "solutions" because it should be about the client and not about you. With elance, odesk and others there should be no reason not to solve the problems they NEED solved just because you don't have the skills. Find someone and find a way to make a profit off of it.

Thanks guys, I hope a fraction of this is helpful. Let me know if you have questions!

--Geoffrey Williams
#50% #90% #closing #meetings #owners #rate #system
  • Profile picture of the author Simoshere
    Wow. I'm Real Surprised No One HaS Replied Back To This But Man That's Some Awesome Advice For Antibody That Is Trying To Get Started. Offer A Solution And Your Golden...

    Nice Bro
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  • I am a big fan of the soft sale. We basically have the same approach even though we approach it different ways.

    I like call calling but I look at what is important to the business that will make them think I am not a sale man.

    But after a few week they ask me about my services and how much it is. Well funny you should ask...

    Respectfully,
    Chris Brown
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    • Profile picture of the author Zen Productions
      Originally Posted by prostarprofitsdotcom View Post

      I am a big fan of the soft sale. We basically have the same approach even though we approach it different ways.

      I like call calling but I look at what is important to the business that will make them think I am not a sale man.

      But after a few week they ask me about my services and how much it is. Well funny you should ask...

      Respectfully,
      Chris Brown
      I love the soft sale, because yes you get a sale upfront or maybe you don't but you position yourself as a friend with solutions in the online world. If that guy ever has a problem I've made it more than easy for him to contact me (I also keep up with the people I hit it off with every two months or so).

      Plus, if you make a friend in the restuarant world they are very generous with refilling beers for free
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  • Profile picture of the author KenL
    You say you're a college student. I call bullsht. I think you're the college professor. Heck, you're teaching a course in sale right here man.
    That's one helleva share, thanks.
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    • Profile picture of the author Zen Productions
      Originally Posted by KenL View Post

      You say you're a college student. I call bullsht. I think you're the college professor. Heck, you're teaching a course in sale right here man.
      That's one helleva share, thanks.

      haha, thanks Ken! Glad people are liking it. Honestly, I think its the best way to sell things.

      Thanks for your feedback
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      • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
        Originally Posted by David Miller View Post

        Thanks...I really needed a laugh this week......you need 4 weeks to make a sale, that's beyond pathetic.

        As I read this it takes you 3 weeks to build trust and another week to ask for the order. It's a good thing you work for yourself because I can't imagine a sales organization that would hire you. You're selling a 1600 dollar product and you drag it out like it's 160 thousand.
        I couldn't agree more. I don't even do the whole appointment setting thing that a lot of people here do, it's a waste of time. I don't like cold calling, but I like making money so I do it.

        I'd much rather have no meetings, a low closing rate and do 10X the sales.

        Your statistics are a bit meaningless. I don't know about other people here but I can't survive off of 1 sale a month.

        1 sale = 4 weeks for you

        1 sale = better not be more than 1 day for me or I get pissed. LOL.

        At least you're out there doing stuff, but this definitely isn't a system a business should be built around.
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        • Profile picture of the author Zen Productions
          Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

          I couldn't agree more. I don't even do the whole appointment setting thing that a lot of people here do, it's a waste of time. I don't like cold calling, but I like making money so I do it.

          I'd much rather have no meetings, a low closing rate and do 10X the sales.

          Your statistics are a bit meaningless. I don't know about other people here but I can't survive off of 1 sale a month.

          1 sale = 4 weeks for you

          1 sale = better not be more than 1 day for me or I get pissed. LOL.

          At least you're out there doing stuff, but this definitely isn't a system a business should be built around.
          Agreed, again as I said before I usually run a set on 15-20 business a month.

          Now the sales are often times small but I'm investing in the fact that I can blossom a relationship out of it. At this juncture in my life money is not a #1 priority. Learning and making good connections are, money will come later; however, just being me and making enough to live happy is doing me just fine.
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  • Profile picture of the author maxrezn
    Damn.......you go man. Can you send me an e-mail at maksym.reznichenko at me.com? I could use your services.
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  • Profile picture of the author xlfutur1
    Really good stuff, and if you are young, this should be a pretty easy way in the door without having to worry about your age and how you are perceived. After all, what established business owner wouldn't want to help out a young up and coming entreprenuer?

    This methodology is all about putting the business owner's needs and wants first without being perceived as a salesperson at the outset. In the case with the fanpage, you did the work first, then simply showed them what you had done and it worked perfectly, but you had established trust first. Most of us should be able to come up with a variety of twists on this type of approach. Well done and thanks for posting!
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    • Profile picture of the author Zen Productions
      Originally Posted by xlfutur1 View Post

      Really good stuff, and if you are young, this should be a pretty easy way in the door without having to worry about your age and how you are perceived. After all, what established business owner wouldn't want to help out a young up and coming entreprenuer?

      This methodology is all about putting the business owner's needs and wants first without being perceived as a salesperson at the outset. In the case with the fanpage, you did the work first, then simply showed them what you had done and it worked perfectly, but you had established trust first. Most of us should be able to come up with a variety of twists on this type of approach. Well done and thanks for posting!
      You know I was thinking that the other day, that they see me as a young guy that needs guidance. haha, it does help out a lot to say the least.

      Yes, I do like putting someones needs first. I think it has something to do with me being insanely shy. If I was told to go use sales techniques to sell a product someone doesn't need I would literally shake with fear. I like the friend method just because it makes me feel better in the process.

      Thanks for the feedback
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  • Profile picture of the author Tsarina
    Very good approach. You can ask them questions for your article/directory/book, etc.
    I wounder if my VA can request the interview for an article (for example) over the phone (looking legit and grown up) to book appointment first. At the appointment ask needed questions, if the "article" is on restaurant marketing for example you can gather all info needed to prepare the offer and save one set.
    If I decide to give it a try (and I might) I will also try to wrap it up in two meeting. 1st - interview that let me build relationship, position myself as an expert and the "pains" I can cure. On the second I might have an article draft (if I did write something of course ) , the gift for his help (something with my logo and phone) , and a "growth mindmap" I will prepare based on his pains and my solutions (my personal sales leave behind material) and in a very casual way say that I have a package that will cure all the pains. By now I'm an "insider", "bribed" my way with gifts, show my knowledge of his business and solutions on the mindmap and I'm an expert. It seems like the guy is in my pocket. I would mention that I do have a package I prepared for him with deep discount for his help and hope to use him in further research (he has to understand reason for the bargain). Perhaps I can even say that the package is prepared to use his business on case studies hence the discount. This will also open doors for further calls and visits, in case I did not close on the 2nd meeting.
    What do you think?
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    • Profile picture of the author David Miller
      Thanks...I really needed a laugh this week......you need 4 weeks to make a sale, that's beyond pathetic.

      As I read this it takes you 3 weeks to build trust and another week to ask for the order. It's a good thing you work for yourself because I can't imagine a sales organization that would hire you. You're selling a 1600 dollar product and you drag it out like it's 160 thousand.
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      • Profile picture of the author Zen Productions
        Originally Posted by David Miller View Post

        Thanks...I really needed a laugh this week......you need 4 weeks to make a sale, that's beyond pathetic.

        As I read this it takes you 3 weeks to build trust and another week to ask for the order. It's a good thing you work for yourself because I can't imagine a sales organization that would hire you. You're selling a 1600 dollar product and you drag it out like it's 160 thousand.

        Sorry you didn't like my system, as I said in the opener I usually run a set on 15-20 business in one month. So yes it takes 1 month to close a sell and make a friend but I run it on as many as I can put through in a week.

        So in week 1 I'll go to 4-5 business on monday, 4-5 business on tuesday etc etc.

        I don't really know if I would ever want to join a sales organization I'm having fun building relationships and making money so I dont have to work at a retail store.

        Thanks for the feedback
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      • Profile picture of the author xlfutur1
        Originally Posted by David Miller View Post

        Thanks...I really needed a laugh this week......you need 4 weeks to make a sale, that's beyond pathetic.

        As I read this it takes you 3 weeks to build trust and another week to ask for the order. It's a good thing you work for yourself because I can't imagine a sales organization that would hire you. You're selling a 1600 dollar product and you drag it out like it's 160 thousand.
        He's not taking 4 weeks to make a sale so much as he is taking some time to develop a relationship so sales come easily, and continually for many years from the same people. i.e. lifetime value

        There are many industries where sales cycles that take months and even years to come to fruition. I know because my day job is one of those industries.

        Sure he could probably make some sales working the numbers but it sounds like his goal is to develop a trusting relationship with a select number of local business owners, then help them with their continual needs. 20 business owners paying $300 per month for stuff is a nice living. If he took a couple of months to get there, what is so bad about that? I would guess 90% of the people on this forum don't have those kinds of sales results so quickly.

        I personally would rather have 25-50 local business owners with whom I have complete trust with and that call me to take care of anything and everything, than be hammering the phone for months and years on end trying to make one shot sales with people who could care less if I called or not. Just my 2 cents.
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        • Profile picture of the author Zen Productions
          Originally Posted by xlfutur1 View Post

          He's not taking 4 weeks to make a sale so much as he is taking some time to develop a relationship so sales come easily, and continually for many years from the same people. i.e. lifetime value

          There are many industries where sales cycles that take months and even years to come to fruition. I know because my day job is one of those industries.

          Sure he could probably make some sales working the numbers but it sounds like his goal is to develop a trusting relationship with a select number of local business owners, then help them with their continual needs. 20 business owners paying $300 per month for stuff is a nice living. If he took a couple of months to get there, what is so bad about that? I would guess 90% of the people on this forum don't have those kinds of sales results so quickly.

          I personally would rather have 25-50 local business owners with whom I have complete trust with and that call me to take care of anything and everything, than be hammering the phone for months and years on end trying to make one shot sales with people who could care less if I called or not. Just my 2 cents.
          Not only that but if you position yourself as a friend and not a salesman then this can benefit you in other areas.

          My dad was really good at this when he sold IT services. He perfected the soft sell in my opinion. He helped a guy out gave him a discount and he was off and on working for him for about a year. Then, the client had a friend that needed an IT position filled, it payed really good money....guess who he recommended for the job
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          • Profile picture of the author xlfutur1
            Originally Posted by Zen Productions View Post

            Not only that but if you position yourself as a friend and not a salesman then this can benefit you in other areas.

            My dad was really good at this when he sold IT services. He perfected the soft sell in my opinion. He helped a guy out gave him a discount and he was off and on working for him for about a year. Then, the client had a friend that needed an IT position filled, it payed really good money....guess who he recommended for the job
            Exactly...referrals is another aspect that totally comes into play here. You basically leverage your time with this method because referrals can come so easily down the road. 25 business owners referring you to just one person each year is another 25 new clients that know and trust you based on their friend's recommendation.
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            • Profile picture of the author Zen Productions
              Originally Posted by xlfutur1 View Post

              Exactly...referrals is another aspect that totally comes into play here. You basically leverage your time with this method because referrals can come so easily down the road. 25 business owners referring you to just one person each year is another 25 new clients that know and trust you based on their friend's recommendation.

              It is a good business model. In fact Brian Tracey swears by the referral method.

              I think he said something like cold call 100 business and do the whole sales process and once your done you could ride those out for a year. I haven't done his method but who am I to question Brain Tracey lol.
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      • Profile picture of the author Eddie Spangler
        Originally Posted by David Miller View Post

        Thanks...I really needed a laugh this week......you need 4 weeks to make a sale, that's beyond pathetic.

        As I read this it takes you 3 weeks to build trust and another week to ask for the order. It's a good thing you work for yourself because I can't imagine a sales organization that would hire you. You're selling a 1600 dollar product and you drag it out like it's 160 thousand.

        I feel like IM reading a script for a new version of the STING, except
        the big score in this one is a vending machine.
        BTW What type of system do you have with to close the sale with the ladies?:confused:

        Hey its Sat night and Im just having a little fun

        Seriously though young man I applaud you for doing something positive and Im sure that these biz owners love you. I know I would if I were in their position.
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        • Profile picture of the author Zen Productions
          Originally Posted by Eddie Spangler View Post

          I feel like IM reading a script for a new version of the STING, except
          the big score in this one is a vending machine.
          BTW What type of system do you have with to close the sale with the ladies?:confused:

          Hey its Sat night and Im just having a little fun

          Seriously though young man I applaud you for doing something positive and Im sure that these biz owners love you. I know I would if I were in their position.

          Its really funny that you ask me about how I pick up ladies because I made my system with the inspiration of my dads soft skills and the pick up artists mastery of picking up women.

          Weird how getting girls and clients usually go hand in hand.

          Having said that I now realize im 23 and on a saturday night i'm talking about selling online instead of going out to meet girls. What a life lol
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          • Profile picture of the author Eddie Spangler
            [QUOTE=

            Having said that I now realize im 23 and on a saturday night i'm talking about selling online instead of going out to meet girls. What a life lol[/QUOTE]


            Well here is a tip for you, the next time you are out on a date with a lady DO NOT talk about sales!!
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            • Profile picture of the author Zen Productions
              Originally Posted by Eddie Spangler View Post

              Well here is a tip for you, the next time you are out on a date with a lady DO NOT talk about sales!!

              Oh Man! I have honestly made that mistake with a girl I'm seeing now. Lets just say it would be like her talking to me about why Kim kardasian shouldn't have broken up with that one dude .... {eyes glaze over} lol
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      • Profile picture of the author MaverickUK
        Originally Posted by David Miller View Post

        Thanks...I really needed a laugh this week......you need 4 weeks to make a sale, that's beyond pathetic.

        As I read this it takes you 3 weeks to build trust and another week to ask for the order. It's a good thing you work for yourself because I can't imagine a sales organization that would hire you. You're selling a 1600 dollar product and you drag it out like it's 160 thousand.
        And I couldn't see anyone hiring an arrogant little prat who hasn't even got it in him to put a space after his overuse of full stops. Grow up or shut up, the latter being the preferred choice.
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        • Profile picture of the author Zen Productions
          Originally Posted by MaverickUK View Post

          And I couldn't see anyone hiring an arrogant little prat who hasn't even got it in him to put a space after his overuse of full stops. Grow up or shut up, the latter being the preferred choice.

          Thanks for the support Maverick! I can understand where he is coming from though. Being on the Warrior forums for about a 8 months before posting and just reading has taught that some are trying to find ways to maximize profits in exchange for relationship building. I get it, its more money and its tempting. My whole stance is build a network before you need it. Have you ever read a book called "Never Eat Alone"?
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        • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
          Originally Posted by MaverickUK View Post

          And I couldn't see anyone hiring an arrogant little prat who hasn't even got it in him to put a space after his overuse of full stops. Grow up or shut up, the latter being the preferred choice.
          I'd actually be honored to be able to hire David. That is what is wrong with you people. You guys think too small and just want something that seems less invasive. Maybe not you specifically, and maybe not the OP, but it seems so many people just want to avoid the cold calling thing. Even though it is tested and proven to work wonderfully for businesses.

          If it works for the OP, great.. I just don't have the patience to wait 4 weeks. I want a few sales every day of the month.

          Job opening available if you want it David. LOL.
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          • Profile picture of the author MaverickUK
            Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

            I'd actually be honored to be able to hire David. That is what is wrong with you people. You guys think too small and just want something that seems less invasive. Maybe not you specifically, and maybe not the OP, but it seems so many people just want to avoid the cold calling thing. Even though it is tested and proven to work wonderfully for businesses.

            If it works for the OP, great.. I just don't have the patience to wait 4 weeks. I want a few sales every day of the month.

            Job opening available if you want it David. LOL.
            Personally I wouldn't wait 4 weeks before closing a deal however each to their own and all that and I have no doubts that Zen's steps work for him and will definitely work for others, however come across as a total moron isn't a way to conduct yourself if you want to keep the respect your portraying you have.

            David needs a lesson in manners 101, that is all.
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            • Profile picture of the author David Miller
              Originally Posted by MaverickUK View Post

              Personally I wouldn't wait 4 weeks before closing a deal however each to their own and all that and I have no doubts that Zen's steps work for him and will definitely work for others, however come across as a total moron isn't a way to conduct yourself if you want to keep the respect your portraying you have.

              David needs a lesson in manners 101, that is all.
              And you have the temerity to comment about my grammar! There are so many errors in those few lines it's not worth a comment.

              I've just gone through this thread one more time and noticed you had the nerve to suggest I shut up!

              This is a forum, in other words, a vehicle to express and exchange ideas. If all you can bring to the conversation are insults and corrections to what you believe to be grammatical errors I wouldn't suggest you to shut up. I would suggest that you think about offering something of value in the future.

              Your comment corrected:

              Personally I wouldn't wait 4 weeks before closing a deal. However, each to their own. I have no doubts that Zen's steps work for him and will definitely work for others. However coming across as a total moron isn't a way to conduct yourself if you want to keep respect.
              Signature
              The big lesson in life, baby, is never be scared of anyone or anything.
              -- FRANK SINATRA, quoted in The Way You Wear Your Hat
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          • Profile picture of the author Zen Productions
            Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

            I'd actually be honored to be able to hire David. That is what is wrong with you people. You guys think too small and just want something that seems less invasive. Maybe not you specifically, and maybe not the OP, but it seems so many people just want to avoid the cold calling thing. Even though it is tested and proven to work wonderfully for businesses.

            If it works for the OP, great.. I just don't have the patience to wait 4 weeks. I want a few sales every day of the month.

            Job opening available if you want it David. LOL.

            Again, I agree. It really is whatever works. As I have said beofre I noticed something about myself that just couldn't go in a make a cold sale, I get to shy. My solution was to make them a friend and then sell him something he needs. It works for me.

            But for some its a waste of time, cold calling will always be a good method; for me though, I felt I could better articulate myself in person. I have better in person skills than over the phone (and internet it seems lol).

            Thanks for the feedback
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      • Profile picture of the author wilder1047
        Originally Posted by David Miller View Post

        Thanks...I really needed a laugh this week......you need 4 weeks to make a sale, that's beyond pathetic.

        As I read this it takes you 3 weeks to build trust and another week to ask for the order. It's a good thing you work for yourself because I can't imagine a sales organization that would hire you. You're selling a 1600 dollar product and you drag it out like it's 160 thousand.
        What are your percentages?
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      • Profile picture of the author Zeal4Life
        frankly, I started wondering where THOSE types of biz owner live.

        Cos, in these parts of the country... The "friendly" gatekeeper wants to know who you are, where you're from, what you're selling, what your mother's blood type is, who in your first grade class you wish you had married ... BEFORE, you get to speak with the owner (of course she won't tell you the owner's name, cos that's something you should have known before calling - that's if she really wants to be "protective" of her boss).

        Once you can get past all that...

        THEN, I guess you can "interview" the owner (because, he's so giddy about sharing all this info about his business), without knowing why you're asking ALL these questions.

        ...and here comes the BIG BUUUUTTT!

        If it works for you, by golly, who am I to stop you from doing what works for you?

        Originally Posted by David Miller View Post

        Thanks...I really needed a laugh this week......you need 4 weeks to make a sale, that's beyond pathetic.

        As I read this it takes you 3 weeks to build trust and another week to ask for the order. It's a good thing you work for yourself because I can't imagine a sales organization that would hire you. You're selling a 1600 dollar product and you drag it out like it's 160 thousand.
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    • Profile picture of the author rjhartl
      Wow. This is really helpful. I know one of my biggest weaknesses is the "followup", which is probably the most important part of building a relationship. It's cool because your method actually puts everything on a schedule. I'm going to incorporate that into my current strategy. Thanks for the post
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      • Profile picture of the author Zen Productions
        Originally Posted by rjhartl View Post

        Wow. This is really helpful. I know one of my biggest weaknesses is the "followup", which is probably the most important part of building a relationship. It's cool because your method actually puts everything on a schedule. I'm going to incorporate that into my current strategy. Thanks for the post
        I'm majoring in IT at college and one thing they drill in my head is "tust the system" reasearch - code -check -test -repeat!

        If you just keep going with the system you know where you messed up and where you can improve.

        thanks for the feedback i'm glad you liked it
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    • Profile picture of the author Zen Productions
      Originally Posted by Tsarina View Post

      Very good approach. You can ask them questions for your article/directory/book, etc.
      I wounder if my VA can request the interview for an article (for example) over the phone (looking legit and grown up) to book appointment first. At the appointment ask needed questions, if the "article" is on restaurant marketing for example you can gather all info needed to prepare the offer and save one set.
      If I decide to give it a try (and I might) I will also try to wrap it up in two meeting. 1st - interview that let me build relationship, position myself as an expert and the "pains" I can cure. On the second I might have an article draft (if I did write something of course ) , the gift for his help (something with my logo and phone) , and a "growth mindmap" I will prepare based on his pains and my solutions (my personal sales leave behind material) and in a very casual way say that I have a package that will cure all the pains. By now I'm an "insider", "bribed" my way with gifts, show my knowledge of his business and solutions on the mindmap and I'm an expert. It seems like the guy is in my pocket. I would mention that I do have a package I prepared for him with deep discount for his help and hope to use him in further research (he has to understand reason for the bargain). Perhaps I can even say that the package is prepared to use his business on case studies hence the discount. This will also open doors for further calls and visits, in case I did not close on the 2nd meeting.
      What do you think?
      I like it, how has it been working out so far?
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    • Profile picture of the author Excel Fields
      Originally Posted by Tsarina View Post

      Very good approach. You can ask them questions for your article/directory/book, etc.
      I wounder if my VA can request the interview for an article (for example) over the phone (looking legit and grown up) to book appointment first. At the appointment ask needed questions, if the "article" is on restaurant marketing for example you can gather all info needed to prepare the offer and save one set.
      If I decide to give it a try (and I might) I will also try to wrap it up in two meeting. 1st - interview that let me build relationship, position myself as an expert and the "pains" I can cure. On the second I might have an article draft (if I did write something of course ) , the gift for his help (something with my logo and phone) , and a "growth mindmap" I will prepare based on his pains and my solutions (my personal sales leave behind material) and in a very casual way say that I have a package that will cure all the pains. By now I'm an "insider", "bribed" my way with gifts, show my knowledge of his business and solutions on the mindmap and I'm an expert. It seems like the guy is in my pocket. I would mention that I do have a package I prepared for him with deep discount for his help and hope to use him in further research (he has to understand reason for the bargain). Perhaps I can even say that the package is prepared to use his business on case studies hence the discount. This will also open doors for further calls and visits, in case I did not close on the 2nd meeting.
      What do you think?

      Tsarina,

      What kinds of gifts do you typically leave? (i.e. Advertising Pens?)

      I love your idea of creating a "growth mindmap", great way to point out
      how your services can satisfy his/her needs for growth in the future, and
      definitely will have them thinking about retaining your services.
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      • Profile picture of the author Excel Fields
        David,

        I just finished reading this entire thread, and I must say that i've had both some laughs, and some "Ah-ha's"!

        I totally agree with Tsarina, that you can probably cut your sales cycle
        down to two visits, and still build meaningful relationships with your potential clients/prospects.

        Here are some suggestions that I feel with help you speed/tighten up
        your learning curve.

        1) Create a compelling website/facebook that lists the services that you currently offer. (Provided that you don't already have one.)

        2) Don't be afraid to tell the person that you're a "marketing consultant"
        (I say that because based on what i read in your first post, you seem to find a way to fulfill whatever their lacking) Tell them that you'll only need say 5-10 mins of their time to ask a few specific questions so that you can create a customized marketing plan to help them grow their business larger and faster.

        3) After identifying their needs per your discussion, fulfill them as you've already been doing.

        4) Call back, set the appointment to show them what you've designed for them.

        5) On the second appointment, show them your plan and close the sale. Being efficient will take you a lot further on your road to success my friend. I wish you the best!

        Excel
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      • Profile picture of the author Tsarina
        Originally Posted by whodeeni View Post

        Tsarina,

        What kinds of gifts do you typically leave? (i.e. Advertising Pens?)

        I love your idea of creating a "growth mindmap", great way to point out
        how your services can satisfy his/her needs for growth in the future, and
        definitely will have them thinking about retaining your services.
        I don't leave behind any marketing stuff like pens. My growth map is the best sale tool and I do leave it behind. I print it on 11x17 mounted poster (staples) and it's something businesses proud to keep.
        Signature
        Dream like you will live forever, live like you will die tomorrow
        NEEDED: virtual assistant (VA)
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        • Profile picture of the author reactiontm
          Assuming the OP is actually closing sales here, the lesson is that so long as you're willing to get out there and do SOMETHING, nearly any approach will work on occasion.

          The concern I have is if trying this doesn't make your skin crawl, what's that saying about you?

          The other thing I keep seeing is this talk about how "relationships make sales." If your only purpose in forming the relationship is to get a sale, why not just be up front and offer to solve problems?

          Are you okay with being hoodwinked by someone whom you thought was a genuine friend, only to find out that they just wanted your money?

          Are you okay with being like that?

          Speaks volumes... "friend!"
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  • Profile picture of the author Zen Productions
    By the way just to clear up confusion at the begging of my first post I said I run this on about 15-20 business a month. I just simplified it down to one in particular to get a point across.

    So, that would mean in week 4 I would usually close on 15-20 business a month.
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    • Profile picture of the author nickhumph
      It's a method that looks like it can take in $5,000+ per month if he's closing down 15 - 20 sales + more sales in later months. It takes a long time, but builds better relationships then of that you make in one or two days.

      And some of you guys completely dissing his idea and not even acknowledging the time he's taken to write this post and not even asking for anything in return.. shows what kind of people you are.
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      • Profile picture of the author Zen Productions
        Originally Posted by nickhumph View Post

        It's a method that looks like it can take in $5,000+ per month if he's closing down 15 - 20 sales + more sales in later months. It takes a long time, but builds better relationships then of that you make in one or two days.

        And some of you guys completely dissing his idea and not even acknowledging the time he's taken to write this post and not even asking for anything in return.. shows what kind of people you are.
        I have hit that; however, most my sales go around 100$-300$ range. I really am a believer in building relationships with the successful business owners. Not just for the money but honestly it makes you feel better knowing that If I walk into the guys business we can talk a lot deeper than just "weather is nice". They give great advice and have some amazing stories. Really it feel pretty good.
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        • Profile picture of the author David Miller
          Let me put this as clearly as I can. I take offense to the characterization that I am some grumpy old guy that has a quota and a family to feed. That has nothing to do with sales or any other profession.

          I'm sick and tired of threads with comments like:

          Dress nice, walk in to the business with one sheet of blank paper ( this brings stress levels down, if someone sees you with a briefcase or folder and in a suite they start thinking "oh great, a salesman, how fast can we get this guy out").

          If you're so afraid to be labeled as a sales person, than odds are that it's because you stink at it. You can't possibly be good at something that you so clearly think very little of.

          And here's another piece of stupiditiy:

          "Hey, is the owner in I would like to talk to him about important issues"

          So rather than be labeled as a salesman, you prefer to start off your relationship with a blatant lie! Salespeople don't give themselves bad names and reputations, but crap like that does!

          Make sure this is quick and strong (be sure to smile of course). The longer you talk the lower your precived value is and you want to make yourself look important enough to not look like a salesman. (the whole point is to position yourself as a non-salesman)

          More immature nonsense. You think you're going to intimidate someone because you have a suit on? Your strong voice is going to make someone quiver in their boots. Let me tell you something young man, professionals hire professionals and if you think this approach is going to win you points, think again. I doubt that you've ever walked into an office, or if you have, I doubt that this got you anywhere but the same door you came in.


          Then the Boss/Owner will come out and I will follow it up like this:

          Most likely he would tell his front office person to call 911

          Here's what you don't understand and likely never will. Business professionals who are SUCCESSFUL don't have a desire, need, or the inclination to make friends with people who walk in the door. They don't have time for BS "interviews" with people that have nothing to offer....and since you think it's good practice to not let on you're selling something, you have nothing to offer.

          Business people who are successful aren't afraid of salespeople who know what they're doing. They expect a salesperson to be direct and to the point. They expect a salesperson to know why he wants a meeting and to show him how he can be of help to their business.

          Good salespeople understand this and don't go out of their way to pretend they are there to "make friends" and "build relationships", they're there to do business.
          A good salesperson is always a respecter of time. Both his or her own and the time of their prospect. For those of you who think thats just some bottom line old grouch kind of thinking, you don't understand business or sales. Sales is business!

          Now there are going to be a lot of people calling me all kinds of names and saying that they know better and sales is about making friends and building relationships and blah blah blah....

          And people are going to love your system because it gets them off the hook of having to close a deal and make something happen.

          With your system, you're busy making friends while some stupid ol' salesman' who doesn't have your alleged people skills is making the sale. I guarantee that if there's a shred of truth to your system or your numbers, that there have been many occassions where your new FRIEND has purchased what you haven't had the guts to sell from someone else. While you're busy baking him cookies, he's writing a check to someone else for what you should have sold.


          Signature
          The big lesson in life, baby, is never be scared of anyone or anything.
          -- FRANK SINATRA, quoted in The Way You Wear Your Hat
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          • Profile picture of the author Zen Productions
            Originally Posted by David Miller View Post

            Let me put this as clearly as I can. I take offense to the characterization that I am some grumpy old guy that has a quota and a family to feed. That has nothing to do with sales or any other profession.

            I'm sick and tired of threads with comments like:

            Dress nice, walk in to the business with one sheet of blank paper ( this brings stress levels down, if someone sees you with a briefcase or folder and in a suite they start thinking "oh great, a salesman, how fast can we get this guy out").

            If you're so afraid to be labeled as a sales person, than odds are that it's because you stink at it. You can't possibly be good at something that you so clearly think very little of.

            And here's another piece of stupiditiy:

            "Hey, is the owner in I would like to talk to him about important issues"

            So rather than be labeled as a salesman, you prefer to start off your relationship with a blatant lie! Salespeople don't give themselves bad names and reputations, but crap like that does!

            Make sure this is quick and strong (be sure to smile of course). The longer you talk the lower your precived value is and you want to make yourself look important enough to not look like a salesman. (the whole point is to position yourself as a non-salesman)

            More immature nonsense. You think you're going to intimidate someone because you have a suit on? Your strong voice is going to make someone quiver in their boots. Let me tell you something young man, professionals hire professionals and if you think this approach is going to win you points, think again. I doubt that you've ever walked into an office, or if you have, I doubt that this got you anywhere but the same door you came in.


            Then the Boss/Owner will come out and I will follow it up like this:

            Most likely he would tell his front office person to call 911

            Here's what you don't understand and likely never will. Business professionals who are SUCCESSFUL don't have a desire, need, or the inclination to make friends with people who walk in the door. They don't have time for BS "interviews" with people that have nothing to offer....and since you think it's good practice to not let on you're selling something, you have nothing to offer.

            Business people who are successful aren't afraid of salespeople who know what they're doing. They expect a salesperson to be direct and to the point. They expect a salesperson to know why he wants a meeting and to show him how he can be of help to their business.

            Good salespeople understand this and don't go out of their way to pretend they are there to "make friends" and "build relationships", they're there to do business.
            A good salesperson is always a respecter of time. Both his or her own and the time of their prospect. For those of you who think thats just some bottom line old grouch kind of thinking, you don't understand business or sales. Sales is business!

            Now there are going to be a lot of people calling me all kinds of names and saying that they know better and sales is about making friends and building relationships and blah blah blah....

            And people are going to love your system because it gets them off the hook of having to close a deal and make something happen.

            With your system, you're busy making friends while some stupid ol' salesman' who doesn't have your alleged people skills is making the sale. I guarantee that if there's a shred of truth to your system or your numbers, that there have been many occassions where your new FRIEND has purchased what you haven't had the guts to sell from someone else. While you're busy baking him cookies, he's writing a check to someone else for what you should have sold.


            Dude, I've tried to be honest and see your side of the story; and honestly, I get it. You've been in it for a long time, you've seen people come and go with new "systems" and who knows maybe you have been burned before on a "system. I honestly don't understand your hostility, this works for me and maybe your right. I COULD be better just make an appointment and sell sell sell; but try and see it from my point of view. Most businesses I talk to have been burned before in the IM area (go figure), they see a 23 year old kid walk in and they think screw this kid.

            If you think I don't want to be labeled a salesman YOUR RIGHT! I've already pointed out that I'm shy and it takes a bit of me knowing someone before I can go into a sales pitch. I found a way to make it WORK.

            Man, don't feel bad, honestly. I run into this all the time. People come up to me all the time (mostly people of my elders) and ask me when I'm gonna get a real job and stop messing around online.

            The thing I want you to understand is that I came here (member since last june) to learn. I have a system going and is it perfect, HELL NO. Does it work around my shyness and timidness HELL YES. So, until I change or find another profession I will continue to do it and tweak it along the way.

            If your sooo worried about protecting the sacred name of the "salesman" go get a knife and start hacking at the car salesmen.

            I offered my system that I made with the influence of Keith Ferrazzi and Ramit Sethi for absolutely FREE. If I were charging money (like half the horrid WSO) then maybe your crazed anger is warrented.

            Please, tell me your method so maybe I can learn (I honestly mean this, no sarcasm). I'm here to learn like everyone else and wanted to bring my success (weather you think it is or not) to the discussion table
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  • Hi, everybody !

    It was interesting to see 2 opposite poles in the same thread - one: youthful, gregarious, affable, someone who at least 'poses' as someone who cares about other people and seemingly wanting to 'help' them 'solve their problems', while 'coincidentally' making some money while doing it... versus... the other: possibly older, more worldly-wise, more intent on just 'getting the job done...asap', without all that 'touchy-feely' stuff getting in the way of business, whose sole concern seems to be getting to the 'bottom line'.

    Geoffrey, I believe your 'model' is 'apparently' more in line with what Zig Ziglar is noted for saying, "If you 'help' enough people get what 'they' want, they will help you get what 'you' want".

    But, too, Geoffrey, in defense of the 'grizzled old prospector' who probably has a family to support and a lot more overhead than you do, he "has to" 'produce' or he and others may suffer.

    You, though, being a college student, have the luxury of time and, quite possibly, far fewer responsibilities than your counterpart.

    Your 'system'/approach undoubtedly works - at least 'for you' - so, "Bravo for you !" I mean that sincerely, Geoffrey.

    I do think, though, that David's approach is certainly more 'direct' and 'efficient', as he probably has time constraints and financial needs that you do not have.

    My hat is off to you, too, David, for your apparent diligence to your profession, and I mean that sincerely, too.

    I, myself, am a 'people person', just on the verge of entering the offline marketing world - a newbie through and through.

    I believe anyone who reads this thread can learn from 'both of you' - from one: youthful enthusiasm, casualness, affability, fun; from the other: knowledge of your business, experience, and efficiency.

    If only the two of you could 'team teach' - how great that would be for 'all of us' to learn from both of you

    Though I have some of the skills of each of you, I am now in a position where I need to be able to practice my 'people skills', but to do it efficiently and quickly, preferrably via phone and email - I can no longer 'do' physically as I was once able to.

    fyi - I want to thank you both for this interaction. In the process of writing this comment, I was able to 'accidentally' answer my own question to what had been vexing me... "Thank you, Geoffrey and David !"

    Much success to both of you - however you may define it

    Your friend in Christ,

    Hal Humphries
    Signature

    Your friend in Christ on the net,
    Hal Humphries
    http://www.iwanttogetmore.info (info portal)
    http://www.i-m-discounter (store and membership site)

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    • Profile picture of the author Zen Productions
      Originally Posted by YourFriendInChrist View Post

      Hi, everybody !

      It was interesting to see 2 opposite poles in the same thread - one: youthful, gregarious, affable, someone who at least 'poses' as someone who cares about other people and seemingly wanting to 'help' them 'solve their problems', while 'coincidentally' making some money while doing it... versus... the other: possibly older, more worldly-wise, more intent on just 'getting the job done...asap', without all that 'touchy-feely' stuff getting in the way of business, whose sole concern seems to be getting to the 'bottom line'.

      Geoffrey, I believe your 'model' is 'apparently' more in line with what Zig Ziglar is noted for saying, "If you 'help' enough people get what 'they' want, they will help you get what 'you' want".

      But, too, Geoffrey, in defense of the 'grizzled old prospector' who probably has a family to support and a lot more overhead than you do, he "has to" 'produce' or he and others may suffer.

      You, though, being a college student, have the luxury of time and, quite possibly, far fewer responsibilities than your counterpart.

      Your 'system'/approach undoubtedly works - at least 'for you' - so, "Bravo for you !" I mean that sincerely, Geoffrey.

      I do think, though, that David's approach is certainly more 'direct' and 'efficient', as he probably has time constraints and financial needs that you do not have.

      My hat is off to you, too, David, for your apparent diligence to your profession, and I mean that sincerely, too.

      I, myself, am a 'people person', just on the verge of entering the offline marketing world - a newbie through and through.

      I believe anyone who reads this thread can learn from 'both of you' - from one: youthful enthusiasm, casualness, affability, fun; from the other: knowledge of your business, experience, and efficiency.

      If only the two of you could 'team teach' - how great that would be for 'all of us' to learn from both of you

      Though I have some of the skills of each of you, I am now in a position where I need to be able to practice my 'people skills', but to do it efficiently and quickly, preferrably via phone and email - I can no longer 'do' physically as I was once able to.

      fyi - I want to thank you both for this interaction. In the process of writing this comment, I was able to 'accidentally' answer my own question to what had been vexing me... "Thank you, Geoffrey and David !"

      Much success to both of you - however you may define it

      Your friend in Christ,

      Hal Humphries
      Hey Hal,

      You are 100% right at the moment I'm sharing a apartment with a couple of friends who are also into the business thing. However, I do make enough money to live on my own and still be comfortable. You right though many people have different needs and can't afford to waste time; makes complete sense.

      Hope you all the best Hal
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  • Profile picture of the author Aaron Doud
    I'd like to offer some advice from the other side.

    Using myself and others in management and owner positions.

    A lot of us would be too busy for this. It's nice and all but he starts off acting like he wants a mentor and most people are going to turn him down because they don't know him and don't have the time.

    The system above will work if you find people who have time. But I very surprised by the 90% and 50% numbers. Just being honest.

    Also to me if someone approached me in this way I would assume they were a sales person honestly. Because few people would start a mentor relationship so randomly.

    But the basic idea of introducing yourself as a new business owner and asking if they have time for a few questions could work. See the jobless dad thread. I just think the way this is being done has two problems.

    1. In some ways it smacks of dishonesty.
    2. It is very drawn out compared to the sale. Your time is worth more. If you do the math how much per hour are you making?

    Now if you need to do this to get started do it. But I think the jobless dad thread shows a better way. This soft sell approach works but I think this is too strung out.
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    • Profile picture of the author Zen Productions
      Originally Posted by Aaron Doud View Post

      I'd like to offer some advice from the other side.

      Using myself and others in management and owner positions.

      A lot of us would be too busy for this. It's nice and all but he starts off acting like he wants a mentor and most people are going to turn him down because they don't know him and don't have the time.

      The system above will work if you find people who have time. But I very surprised by the 90% and 50% numbers. Just being honest.

      Also to me if someone approached me in this way I would assume they were a sales person honestly. Because few people would start a mentor relationship so randomly.

      But the basic idea of introducing yourself as a new business owner and asking if they have time for a few questions could work. See the jobless dad thread. I just think the way this is being done has two problems.

      1. In some ways it smacks of dishonesty.
      2. It is very drawn out compared to the sale. Your time is worth more. If you do the math how much per hour are you making?

      Now if you need to do this to get started do it. But I think the jobless dad thread shows a better way. This soft sell approach works but I think this is too strung out.
      Yes, I partly agree with this. I generally target restaurants and local retail stores (in Georgia we have a lot of little boutique shops). A majority of the owners I meet are already in "people mode".

      It is pretty drawn out, but to be honest I like it. It gets me in different modes every week. Who knows I might shorten it, but I love it the way it is right now.

      The jobless dad thread im interested in and I will be looking for that.

      Also, I would disagree that its dishonesty. I've never lead them to believe they needed a product they didn't need. In fact on many occasions, as I have said above, I only sold them what I know would work and told them I would not sell something I don't believe in (Like QR codes, I seriously hate QR codes). If they really want it then good I hope the next guy sells it to them and makes a pretty penny.

      I feel like Mr Miller is strictly in it for the money, which is fantastic! However, I'm having fun, I'm making friends, and who know I might just bake some of my clients some cookies
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      • Profile picture of the author Eddie Spangler
        I think that the more experienced people are shaking their heads because you are coming on here presenting your "system" as some type of real sales method when its really just a hobby about you making friends and picking up some work here and there.

        Even though it was free it amounts to nothing better that those crappy wso's that you talked about. I know that in your heart you felt like your were making a contribution but that doenst make it valuable.

        Lots of experienced people here enjoy helping and discussing REAL ways of making money and prospering offline and that the implication that what you are doing is professional is kinda insulting. Then other posters are hailing this "method" as something good and the old schoolers really start shaking their heads

        All that stuff about being shy is really BS, its just a story you have been telling yourself over and over, now you have identified with it. Thats just your ego protecting you from your overwhelming fear of rejection, your need to be liked. That way even if they dont buy from you then you wont be as hurt because at least you have a new "friend"

        You are actually outgoing and deceptive from the get go. YOu dont see it because you have justified your methods with your charade of trying to convince people you are NOT a salesperson when in fact that is what you are because after all you do want to SELL them something...

        But your belief that being a salesman is something less than honorable is holding you back. Just because scummy sales people exist as long as you are not one of them then you can hold your head up high and your clients that you help WILL hold you in high regard as well...

        Remember they are buying stuff from sales people all the time.,,it is not their immediate thought that saleman are bad, ITS YOUR convoluted belief that THEY are thinking this way and you need to be the good guy and liked...see how its all related.

        One small tip that might help your transition into a being a better service provider is to offer something FOR SALE by the second meeting, even if its a highly discounted introductory offer.

        Keep hanging around, there are a number of very smart people here and after a while you will know who the real players are.
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        • Profile picture of the author Zen Productions
          Originally Posted by Eddie Spangler View Post

          I think that the more experienced people are shaking their heads because you are coming on here presenting your "system" as some type of real sales method when its really just a hobby about you making friends and picking up some work here and there.

          Even though it was free it amounts to nothing better that those crappy wso's that you talked about. I know that in your heart you felt like your were making a contribution but that doenst make it valuable.

          Lots of experienced people here enjoy helping and discussing REAL ways of making money and prospering offline and that the implication that what you are doing is professional is kinda insulting. Then other posters are hailing this "method" as something good and the old schoolers really start shaking their heads

          All that stuff about being shy is really BS, its just a story you have been telling yourself over and over, now you have identified with it. Thats just your ego protecting you from your overwhelming fear of rejection, your need to be liked. That way even if they dont buy from you then you wont be as hurt because at least you have a new "friend"

          You are actually outgoing and deceptive from the get go. YOu dont see it because you have justified your methods with your charade of trying to convince people you are NOT a salesperson when in fact that is what you are because after all you do want to SELL them something...

          But your belief that being a salesman is something less than honorable is holding you back. Just because scummy sales people exist as long as you are not one of them then you can hold your head up high and your clients that you help WILL hold you in high regard as well...

          Remember they are buying stuff from sales people all the time.,,it is not their immediate thought that saleman are bad, ITS YOUR convoluted belief that THEY are thinking this way and you need to be the good guy and liked...see how its all related.

          One small tip that might help your transition into a being a better service provider is to offer something FOR SALE by the second meeting, even if its a highly discounted introductory offer.

          Keep hanging around, there are a number of very smart people here and after a while you will know who the real players are.
          Good response, you are right.

          I'll tell you what, for the month of march I'll jettison the method and research on here another one that is more direct.

          I report back with details.

          Remember they are buying stuff from sales people all the time.,,it is not their immediate thought that saleman are bad, ITS YOUR convoluted belief that THEY are thinking this way and you need to be the good guy and liked...see how its all related.
          That makes sense, we will also try a different view in march as well.


          Thanks for the feedback
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        • Profile picture of the author rushindo
          Originally Posted by Eddie Spangler View Post

          You are actually outgoing and deceptive from the get go. YOu dont see it because you have justified your methods with your charade of trying to convince people you are NOT a salesperson when in fact that is what you are because after all you do want to SELL them something...

          But your belief that being a salesman is something less than honorable is holding you back. Just because scummy sales people exist as long as you are not one of them then you can hold your head up high and your clients that you help WILL hold you in high regard as well...
          You pointed out a wonderful reality here. I only recently realized this myself and have been guilty of this. It is DECEPTIVE if you try to PRETEND you are not a salesperson. If you are a salesperson and you try to present yourself as anything else (e.g. customer, random person in the "neighborhood", friend, a person in need of a "mentor"), you are being deceptive, which can potentially hurt you.

          And how would you all feel if someone did all of this pretending to be your friend, your customer, a potential mentee, etc, and you discover that their true motive was to sell you something? Not a good feeling.

          Awesome post.

          @Zen Productions, I also see that you had a good intentions with your post. But hey, you are still learning, like most of us here. It's good that you posted this. I'm sure you will learn a lot from the responses that will make you more successful in the future.
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          • Profile picture of the author David Miller
            Sorry if I appear hostile, I'm just quite tired of post after post expressing a view that salespeople are about as welcome to business owners as Ted Kennedy would have been at an open bar.

            An intelligent, successful, and forward thinking business owner will almost always make time available to a professional salesperson that makes their purpose and value known quickly and concisely. Likewise, a professional salesperson will invariably welcome a valid rejection so he or she can move on to doing business with a more qualified business owner.

            A common thread seems to run through all these types of threads about systems of selling; and the common thread is a new way to be deceptive about your purpose. There's always some reference to "you don't want to look, speak, dress, smell like a salesperson."

            I understand that you are still in college and it's impressive that you recognize the value of business, and you're not busy occupying Wall Street. For this I commend you. However, I know quite a few people your age and younger who would be far more "hostile" about your approach than I. The fact that I made my first sale shortly after Lee surrendered to Grant at Appomatox, has little to do with the need to do business honestly and in a timely manner.

            If you think you are doing a business a service by delaying a buying decision for a full month, anyone with the slightest bit of business accumen would call you out on this.

            In almost every case, the primary reason a business owner makes a purchase is to either reduce costs or increase profits. If you are in this forum, there can be few other reasons to approach a business owner.
            If your product or service does either of those, that's nearly a month that the business owner could have been closer to one of those two goals.

            Now if you were that business owner, how would you feel about the person that essentially wasted your valuable time for a month and than said, "by the way, I can save you some money....or make you some money...." I'd be pretty annoyed, and I think most people would.
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      • Profile picture of the author rushindo
        Originally Posted by Zen Productions View Post

        Also, I would disagree that its dishonesty. I've never lead them to believe they needed a product they didn't need. In fact on many occasions, as I have said above, I only sold them what I know would work and told them I would not sell something I don't believe in (Like QR codes, I seriously hate QR codes). If they really want it then good I hope the next guy sells it to them and makes a pretty penny.
        @Zen Productions, Aaron said it "smacks of dishonesty" not because you try to sell something they don't need, but because you portray yourself as though you don't want to sell anything and just want to be mentored or to be their friend.

        You said the "whole point" is to "position yourself as a non-salesman".

        That is what he means by dishonesty.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
    Zen, I don't want you to feel bad. The fact is simply that your method takes a l-o-n-g time to get to a result. And anyone could tighten it up to a few minutes to get to a Yes or a No, if they just followed a decent, consistent sales process.

    So I'm not interested in jumping into the "pile-on." I read this post earlier today and have watched all the reactions to it. Is there a way you think you could tighten up your process so that it could credibly take a day or two instead of four weeks?
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    • Profile picture of the author Zen Productions
      Originally Posted by kaniganj View Post

      Zen, I don't want you to feel bad. The fact is simply that your method takes a l-o-n-g time to get to a result. And anyone could tighten it up to a few minutes to get to a Yes or a No, if they just followed a decent, consistent sales process.

      So I'm not interested in jumping into the "pile-on." I read this post earlier today and have watched all the reactions to it. Is there a way you think you could tighten up your process so that it could credibly take a day or two instead of four weeks?
      Understandable, as stated above I will try a different approach in March and see what comes of it.

      As always I'll keep everyone updated with the stats
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  • Profile picture of the author MorpheusMirror
    That was one of the best soft offline sales approaches I've read in a long time.
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  • Profile picture of the author stranger11
    wow. That was amazing. I am bookmarking this. When you ask for the owner, does anyone ever ask you what for?
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  • Profile picture of the author rushindo
    @David Miller, please stop calling Zen Productions' methods and ideas "pathetic" and "stupid" and saying stuff like "here's what you don't understand and likely never will".

    He is 23 years old for crying out loud, and he is LEARNING! I don't think us young people would get very far if we tried to be successful in life and wiser people such as yourself called us pathetic and stupid when we make mistakes.

    I'm 25 years old and I asked you for advice once via PM. I appreciate it. But please don't criticize the OP for not having a perfect mindset or a perfect method. Young people need encouragement and guidance, not criticism.

    Having said that, I believe the majority of your advice is on point. I love it.

    Brandon
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    • Profile picture of the author David Miller
      Originally Posted by rushindo View Post

      @David Miller, please stop calling Zen Productions' methods and ideas "pathetic" and "stupid" and saying stuff like "here's what you don't understand and likely never will".

      He is 23 years old for crying out loud, and he is LEARNING! I don't think us young people would get very far if we tried to be successful in life and wiser people such as yourself called us pathetic and stupid when we make mistakes.

      I'm 25 years old and I asked you for advice once via PM. I appreciate it. But please don't criticize the OP for not having a perfect mindset or a perfect method. Young people need encouragement and guidance, not criticism.

      Having said that, I believe the majority of your advice is on point. I love it.

      Brandon
      Sorry if I sound harsh Brandon, I'll try to temper my words in the future. Just don't ask me to "hug it out"

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      • Profile picture of the author rushindo
        Originally Posted by David Miller View Post

        Sorry if I sound harsh Brandon, I'll try to temper my words in the future. Just don't ask me to "hug it out"

        You have my word on that. ;-)

        Brandon
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  • Profile picture of the author genanovlis
    Good business strategy but first on cold prospects which are relatives maybe not all of them are with potentials but you can get referrals from them.2nd maybe from your list of prospects must be prioritize in order to get quality time for quality prospects.3rd maybe one week is to long to make follow up.. the earlier the client decides the better." strike the iron while it is hot" as the saying goes.4th with or without a sales the important thing there is tha they will consider you as potential business partner in the near future..you might be rejected but for for positive reasons...thank for sharing us your strategy..
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  • Profile picture of the author genanovlis
    Good business strategy but first on cold prospects which are relatives maybe not all of them are with potentials but you can get referrals from them.2nd maybe from your list of prospects must be prioritize in order to get quality time for quality prospects.3rd maybe one week is to long to make follow up.. the earlier the client decides the better." strike the iron while it is hot" as the saying goes.4th with or without a sales the important thing there is that they will consider you as potential business partner in the near future..you might be rejected but for for positive reasons...thank for sharing us your strategy.
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    • Profile picture of the author David Miller
      Removed by me....

      Sorry
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      -- FRANK SINATRA, quoted in The Way You Wear Your Hat
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  • Profile picture of the author Voasi
    I think this thread is a good reminder that relationships CAN and DO close sales. My sales reps biggest accounts have always been clients we meet face to face. Our lowest package is $1k/mo and so meeting clients face to face, we're closing $2k - $5k/mo contracts.

    Having said that, the system by the original poster, though deceptive, is effective. I'm not a fan of a deceptive sale, unless you're really interested in building a relationship with those business owners without getting or receiving anything in return.

    Let's breakdown the numbers though:

    1 Month = 15-20 sales a month (by the OP)

    For my sales reps, that's exactly what I expect from them: $10k-$20k/mo in new business.

    And in-fact, that's exactly what my sales staff does: they go out and close deals locally, but I'd rather have 10 clients, bringing in $10k/mo in business, rather then getting 20 clients at $500/mo. or 40 clients spending $250/mo. Further, I find that my clients that spend $1k/mo+ are the easiest clients to work with. They understand they need to spend money on marketing, so they have a set budget for it. Rather then the smaller clients, that are penny-pinching and expecting 200% work for the smaller rate.

    TO THE OP:

    There's no need to be deceptive. My sales reps make sales everyday with telling business owners that they need to be proactive with their marketing. These business owners are in dire need of companies that can ACTUALLY DO internet marketing effectively. There are too many companies that take money and never provide any results. Instead of wasting your time with the companies that don't buy or buy $100-$200, build relationships who you're already upfront with and know they need internet marketing services. In the end, you'll end up building relationships and making more money.
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    • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
      Originally Posted by Voasi View Post

      I think this thread is a good reminder that relationships CAN and DO close sales. My sales reps biggest accounts have always been clients we meet face to face. Our lowest package is $1k/mo and so meeting clients face to face, we're closing $2k - $5k/mo contracts.

      Having said that, the system by the original poster, though deceptive, is effective. I'm not a fan of a deceptive sale, unless you're really interested in building a relationship with those business owners without getting or receiving anything in return.

      Let's breakdown the numbers though:

      1 Month = 15-20 sales a month (by the OP)

      For my sales reps, that's exactly what I expect from them: $10k-$20k/mo in new business.

      And in-fact, that's exactly what my sales staff does: they go out and close deals locally, but I'd rather have 10 clients, bringing in $10k/mo in business, rather then getting 20 clients at $500/mo. or 40 clients spending $250/mo. Further, I find that my clients that spend $1k/mo+ are the easiest clients to work with. They understand they need to spend money on marketing, so they have a set budget for it. Rather then the smaller clients, that are penny-pinching and expecting 200% work for the smaller rate.

      TO THE OP:

      There's no need to be deceptive. My sales reps make sales everyday with telling business owners that they need to be proactive with their marketing. These business owners are in dire need of companies that can ACTUALLY DO internet marketing effectively. There are too many companies that take money and never provide any results. Instead of wasting your time with the companies that don't buy or buy $100-$200, build relationships who you're already upfront with and know they need internet marketing services. In the end, you'll end up building relationships and making more money.
      Voasi, how many reps do you have?
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  • Profile picture of the author stranger11
    What the CEOs and any business wants is to become more profitable and more productive. What David Miller is doing is finding out what they need done to achieve this, and shows them a way to do it. A salesperson is just someone who is trying to solve a problem, granted a lot of salespeople do push for things and try to convince people they need things that they don't necessarily need. But not all of them are like that and David is an example. He is giving them what they want.

    These CEOs are not stupid, they don't get all emotional about making new friends. If they see value they pay for it.

    As for not looking like a salesperson, its just a matter of making a first impression that doesn't put people off. As long as you don't lie, there should not be any ethical issues.
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  • My husband is thinking of starting his own business helping local businesses in our home towns. What you laid out is an amazing system. I'd love to have video tutorials on how you do it all. Sounds like a money-making product to me.

    Liz Tomey
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    • I don't mind the harsh tone or words. sales is a tough game and if this affects you how can you handle what decision-makers give you?

      think of this as training.


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      • Profile picture of the author Eddie Spangler
        Originally Posted by kirbymarketingconcierge View Post

        I don't mind the harsh tone or words. sales is a tough game and if this affects you how can you handle what decision-makers give you?

        think of this as training.


        Attachment 12146
        Very good point. Always cracks me up when someone asks a question or asks for a critique and then goes all defensive and upset when the answer wasnt to their liking.

        They are pretty doomed from the get go!
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  • Profile picture of the author massiveray
    Haha replace a couple of the words in the original post and you have a nice picking up girls article, social dynamics at its finest.
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  • Profile picture of the author Colm Whelan
    I have to say, if someone walked into my business (I have two successful offline service business for the last 14 and 3 years, respectively) and pulled this crap I'd throw him out and most small business owners I know would too. The first thing my secretary will do is say "What important issues?" If you divulge she'll tell you I'm busy and if you don't she'll call me out and I'll smell your bull**** line a mile off. I'm not special BTW, I've just had every bull**** line in the book thrown at me over the last 14 years and so has every other SME owner I've ever met. We don't respect, like or deal with people that try to bull**** us.

    You basically go in, lie to and mislead the client for the first two weeks, then expect him to trust you and buy from you in the second two. Yeah, that plan will definitely work.

    Don't anybody thinking of starting a business take this advice. You'll look like a conman by week three, if you ever get past week 1 that is. I personally don't believe this guy has ever done any such thing as he states here. From my perspective this is just another armchair warrior making up stuff to build his rep. or maybe test his budding WSO.

    If I'm wrong, I apologise, but I don't believe so.
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    • Profile picture of the author David Miller
      @Colm Whelan - I couldn't agree with you more. I also would toss anyone out if they tried this nonsense in my office and just about every business owner I know would do the same.

      There are many posts similar to this, people who have found methods that hide the fact that they are selling something. It seems the logic is their belief that there's something inherintly negative about selling or being labeled a salesperson.

      These people bloviate endlessly about how salespeople are deceptive and misleading in virtually every aspect of their business life. They then implement a system they feel good about because by using it, they believe no one will think they are a salesperson.

      In the final analysis they are correct, no one does think of them as a salesperson. They end up correctly defined as con men.
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