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Using Paypal As Your Payment Processor or Merchant? BE CAREFUL!

by iAmNameLess
87 replies
This thread is not meant to start a debate... this is just a friendly warning for those of you wanting to get started, and those of you that are processing a lot of your payments through paypal.

I have always stuck up for PayPal when people would complain and say that they limit or hold funds in the accounts. The truth is, paypal was right in many cases, and the horror stories you have heard about were not always very accurate.

HOWEVER!!!!!!!

PayPal is changing. Are you offering products or services? If products you will likely be safer. If services, or intangible items, you're going to be experiencing some problems within the next 6 months.

Newer accounts are more likely to experience 21 day holds on funds, the same applies for older accounts who don't provide shipping information on products, services will be out of luck.

If you are running an offline business and using paypal as a way to process most of your payments, I would suggest moving to a REAL merchant account ASAP.

One of my paypal accounts, one that made them over $8,000 through transaction fees, was placed on a 21 day hold earlier this week. Spoke with a manager in the Risk Management Department of paypal and he said there was nothing I did wrong, just changing their policies and it will be reevaluated every 35-40 days.

Anyway.. start looking for a merchant processing service, there are many out there that are great. iPayment is a decent one and they include a gateway with authorize.net, would recommend checking them out!
#careful #merchant #payment #paypal #processor
  • Profile picture of the author Deidra Renee
    Thanks for the heads up! I use an alternative anyway, unless the client REALLY wants to use Paypal.

    Also for anyone with a smartphone, squareup.com is still giving away free card readers. If you go on meetings, it's perfect. You can swipe their card then and there and you can enter the card info manually.
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  • Profile picture of the author rambo9600
    Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

    This thread is not meant to start a debate... this is just a friendly warning for those of you wanting to get started, and those of you that are processing a lot of your payments through paypal.

    I have always stuck up for PayPal when people would complain and say that they limit or hold funds in the accounts. The truth is, paypal was right in many cases, and the horror stories you have heard about were not always very accurate.

    HOWEVER!!!!!!!

    PayPal is changing. Are you offering products or services? If products you will likely be safer. If services, or intangible items, you're going to be experiencing some problems within the next 6 months.

    Newer accounts are more likely to experience 21 day holds on funds, the same applies for older accounts who don't provide shipping information on products, services will be out of luck.

    If you are running an offline business and using paypal as a way to process most of your payments, I would suggest moving to a REAL merchant account ASAP.

    One of my paypal accounts, one that made them over $8,000 through transaction fees, was placed on a 21 day hold earlier this week. Spoke with a manager in the Risk Management Department of paypal and he said there was nothing I did wrong, just changing their policies and it will be reevaluated every 35-40 days.

    Anyway.. start looking for a merchant processing service, there are many out there that are great. iPayment is a decent one and they include a gateway with authorize.net, would recommend checking them out!
    PayPal sucks.

    An account rep called me and started asking stupid azz questions. "How do you perform these services for your offline customers. What does Offline mean? We don't like SEO services. Is there any way to provide details of how you delivered your service?

    I hope they burn in hell.

    The rep told me PP hates digital downloads, they prefer Proof of delivery for a physical product.
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    • Profile picture of the author link82
      Damn, just signed up for Squaredup. Not sure how to use it yet, will read up more on it over the weekend. Guess Paypal is changing? $8k-$10k on hold? *gasp*
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      • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
        Originally Posted by link82 View Post

        Damn, just signed up for Squaredup. Not sure how to use it yet, will read up more on it over the weekend. Guess Paypal is changing? $8k-$10k on hold? *gasp*

        Yep.. squaredup is good but requires signatures on the transactions I think. I can't do that since a lot of my people are in other states.

        Paypal is definitely changing, luckily I withdrew most of the funds from my paypal, but had a couple payments after I got the 21 day hold notice, so I have about 3K locked up for about another 18 days. Opened up a new one in a friends name through a different IP, and his got locked after the first payment went through and it was only for $200.
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        • Profile picture of the author rambo9600
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          • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
            Originally Posted by rambo9600 View Post

            It takes a lot more than a new name and IP address. You can not use the same computer to log in and create a new account. In fact, you can never log in using the old computer, PP monitors this.
            I know this... I have 5 static IPs and different computers. The one we signed him up on was on a completely different IP, IP block, ISP, and computer.
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            • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
              A 100% REAL merchant account is the way to go.

              Preferably through the bank you have a business account registered with.

              With that said. It appears as if a lot of people do not understand, that even with a merchant account, you will have a LOT of the SAME issues people have with paypal.

              Including. Monthly ceilings.

              Payment holds.

              High risk processing fees.

              2% 3.5% charge backs of your over all monthly and BAMM
              account frozen.

              ALL merchant accounts, assume internet sales and phone sales are
              HIGH RISK.

              People love putting paypal down, and yeah, they def pull some BS
              ( as they all do ) but in reality. they are one of the easiest
              to work with. And it just looks like the easy ride is over.

              They aren't a real merchant account any way. So they were nothing more then a temp bandaid, that does not require, legal papers and good credit.
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              • Profile picture of the author rambo9600
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                • Profile picture of the author XponentSYS
                  Originally Posted by rambo9600 View Post

                  They are not the easiest to work with, they are scum. They lure you in by making it easy to accept money. Do any type of big launch and then they hit you with 1 Million forms to complete. This after being with them for 10 freakin years and running hundreds of thousands through thier system. Now you want documents, are you freakin serious?

                  I told PP I don't mind having money being held back, I understand they have risk also. But the *******s just brushed me off. Sorry but we at PP have changed our "risk profile and we don't like Internet Marketers."

                  I offered to hold all my money for 30+ days, and only pay a percentage of that, etc... but NO, these *******s set the rules and **** you.

                  10 years, never one dispute, refunds were nil. No notice, no 30 or 60 days to make the transiton for your business, just **** you.

                  It's embarrasing when clients try to pay you and your PayPal account no longer works. It ruins your credibility with your clients. Does PP freakin care one bit?

                  BTW, they will ask you for tons of Legal papers once you have significant funds in your account and you try to withdraw.
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              • Profile picture of the author HypeText
                Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

                A 100% REAL merchant account is the way to go.

                Preferably through the bank you have a business account registered with.

                With that said. It appears as if a lot of people do not understand, that even with a merchant account, you will have a LOT of the SAME issues people have with paypal.

                Including. Monthly ceilings.

                Payment holds.

                High risk processing fees.

                2% 3.5% charge backs of your over all monthly and BAMM
                account frozen.

                ALL merchant accounts, assume internet sales and phone sales are
                HIGH RISK.

                People love putting paypal down, and yeah, they def pull some BS
                ( as they all do ) but in reality. they are one of the easiest
                to work with. And it just looks like the easy ride is over.

                They aren't a real merchant account any way. So they were nothing more then a temp bandaid, that does not require, legal papers and good credit.
                I spent 15 yrs in payment processing and can fell you:

                1) Per MC/V Guidelines...Chargeback Threshold is 1%...NOT 2 TO 3.5%

                2) Having to have Excellent...or Even Good Credit is not necessary to obtain a Merchant Account. So long as you havent had a BK in the last 2 yrs (Discharged) you can easily get one.

                3) If your credit is questionable, keep your average ticket under 1k on your application and expected volume under 10k on your application as well...this will trigger auto approval with most Processors.

                It is much easier to increase your limits once you have begun processing than it iss to try to get high limits at time of Application.

                4) If a customer wants to cancel and there is no convincing them otherwise...give a refund. It will greatly reduce Chargebacks.

                5) Have Customers sign Credit Card Authorization forms and job completion forms. That way if they do try to Chargeback you have proof of order and order completion if a Retrieval Request is triggered.
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            • Profile picture of the author Pierre!
              I agree 100%

              One of my Holiday launch sites got locked up right after we opened it... I am certain the withdrawals were too much too soon, and that probably triggered it...

              The account still has $60 in it, but hasn't released... probably because payments have stopped because the Co-Founder switched the payments from the new site to another PayPal profile.

              On the other hand - I also read the SquareUp.com review here... and signed up! It certainly works, and I intend to use it for local computer service work.

              I read that not having the card in your hand will put your funds into a 30 day hold, but I believe I read that after a period of 'probation' you may be able to get Square to work with you on the $$$ hold thing...

              When in doubt, call em!

              I have signed up for Dwolla, but haven't had a chance to use it yet.

              Hope that helps someone out...

              Patrick
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            • Profile picture of the author ryanmckinney
              Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

              I know this... I have 5 static IPs and different computers. The one we signed him up on was on a completely different IP, IP block, ISP, and computer.

              AHHH!

              I have a client, who sucks at anything on a computer. So he wanted to add some more services to what I am already performing, and I invoiced him. He called me and asked if I could just log into his paypal account and pay my self, because he tried twice and can't figure it out (lol). So from my own computer, I logged into his account, and paid my self. NOW Paypal did send me through a litany of questions that I know about him anyways, as he is very candid with me, and pays me extra do to do anything for him on the computer. I figured paypal read the same ip and was just making sure.

              Now I am concerned my account is on the chopping block after reading this ..

              Ryan
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        • Profile picture of the author bob ross
          Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

          Yep.. squaredup is good but requires signatures on the transactions I think. I can't do that since a lot of my people are in other states.

          Paypal is definitely changing, luckily I withdrew most of the funds from my paypal, but had a couple payments after I got the 21 day hold notice, so I have about 3K locked up for about another 18 days. Opened up a new one in a friends name through a different IP, and his got locked after the first payment went through and it was only for $200.
          I'm 99% sure that squaredup says to actually write "over phone" or something similar for the signature, that's what I've been doing for a year now. Obviously check their policy to verify this but I'm pretty sure I've been doing it because they specifically mention in it in their FAQ or something.


          thanks for the heads up on paypal!
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          • Profile picture of the author ryanmckinney
            Originally Posted by bob ross View Post

            I'm 99% sure that squaredup says to actually write "over phone" or something similar for the signature, that's what I've been doing for a year now. Obviously check their policy to verify this but I'm pretty sure I've been doing it because they specifically mention in it in their FAQ or something.


            thanks for the heads up on paypal!

            I am waiting on my square app reader deal right now. I was under impression you can make manual entries for a higher % fee, or take a swipe in person for smaller % fee.
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            • Profile picture of the author bob ross
              Originally Posted by ryanmckinney View Post

              I am waiting on my square app reader deal right now. I was under impression you can make manual entries for a higher % fee, or take a swipe in person for smaller % fee.
              You definitely can, but it still comes up with a signature screen, so I can see how that might freak people out.
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              • Profile picture of the author ryanmckinney
                Originally Posted by bob ross View Post

                You definitely can, but it still comes up with a signature screen, so I can see how that might freak people out.

                Ahhh, gotcha. Still waiting on my reader, then I am going to mess with it and pay my self

                Ryan
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                • Profile picture of the author DennisM
                  Originally Posted by ryanmckinney View Post

                  Ahhh, gotcha. Still waiting on my reader, then I am going to mess with it and pay my self

                  Ryan
                  Ryan,

                  You can buy the Square reader at the Apple retail store for $10. You then get a $10 credit for opening the account so you only theoretically pay around a dollar for the sales tax.

                  So, anyone who wants the reader NOW just go visit your local Apple store.

                  Dennis
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          • Profile picture of the author ADukes81
            Originally Posted by bob ross View Post

            I'm 99% sure that squaredup says to actually write "over phone" or something similar for the signature, that's what I've been doing for a year now. Obviously check their policy to verify this but I'm pretty sure I've been doing it because they specifically mention in it in their FAQ or something.


            thanks for the heads up on paypal!
            Yes, I write "web order" when I run a card. I was scared of this a few months back, but did find on the site that this is how they prefer to have it done if the person isn't physically there. I just ran one yesterday like this.

            Square is the way to go
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            • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
              So do you manually enter their CC number if you they aren't present then?

              Originally Posted by ADukes81 View Post

              Yes, I write "web order" when I run a card. I was scared of this a few months back, but did find on the site that this is how they prefer to have it done if the person isn't physically there. I just ran one yesterday like this.

              Square is the way to go
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              • Profile picture of the author David Stewart
                Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

                So do you manually enter their CC number if you they aren't present then?
                Yes. You need the card number, exp. date, CV code and billing zip and your good to go.

                If you take offsite payments there is a $1,000 per week limit. Anything over 1k per week gets a 30 day hold. However, you can request a limit increase for them to review your business. In that case I'd just opt for a REAL merchant account.

                Onsite payments I'm pretty sure there's no transaction limit and the fees are slightly lower.

                So far I haven't had any issues with Square.
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              • Profile picture of the author MegaC
                Have anyone ever used Intuit Payments? You can do online processing as well as mobile. They also give you a free card reader, with 2.70% swipe rate for their pay as you go option.

                Payment Processing, accept credit cards solutions - Intuit Payments
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                • Profile picture of the author PattC
                  The trouble for me is that PP is so easy to use, and so many customers prefer PP. I also have a Google Checkout, so thanks for the heads up.
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              • Profile picture of the author ADukes81
                Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

                So do you manually enter their CC number if you they aren't present then?
                Hi Russ,

                yes, I get the CC #, CVV, exp and the billing zip code. I then (with my 7-year like handwriting) write out "web order" and then email then the receipt.
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                • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
                  Yeah that's why I am moving to CD fulfillment of my products. Customers will still be able to get an immediate download as well but they will be getting a tangible product via email.

                  Another thing to point out is abiding by all PP terms on your web site. So many marketers don't bother with this and it just makes you more reputable as a concern. One should have a TOS, Privacy Policy, Refund Policy, and I even link to PP UTA page as well.

                  Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

                  Yeah, basically anything that isn't SHIPPED and confirmed with a tracking number is placed as high risk. If you have a history of intangible items, doesn't matter if you had disputes or not, they may place a hold, but if you ship the item, you may be able to get them to release funds after a week.

                  To stop the hold, or have early access to the money, you will need to perform the service, ship a CD like you said, wait 3 days after they have received it, and if there is no dispute then the money can be released.
                  ------------------------------------------------

                  Yeah, I'll have to look further into using squared up then! Thanks for the info.

                  Originally Posted by ADukes81 View Post

                  Hi Russ,

                  yes, I get the CC #, CVV, exp and the billing zip code. I then (with my 7-year like handwriting) write out "web order" and then email then the receipt.
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  • Profile picture of the author TyErickson
    If there's any doubt...

    http://anthonyaires.com/PayPalcall.mp3
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    • Profile picture of the author David Stewart
      Originally Posted by TyErickson View Post

      That recording just got my blood boiling

      Also, I just got off of the phone with a hostgator rep and I asked him if they ever have problems with paypal holding their funds considering they have such a large client base and lots of their customers pay them through paypal (including myself) and the guy laughed and said, "Oh yeah, Everyday".

      He couldn't get into the numbers, (he said he didn't really know that much anyway) but they have an in house team set up that works specifically with paypal for this reason. Total BS!
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  • Profile picture of the author SEOLee
    I try to use a mix of Paypal, Moneybookers, Google Checkout. Payoneer as much as possible!
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  • Profile picture of the author BlogDiva
    OMG..I hate Paypal too. I have been using WePay.com for the past 8 months and it's going great. However, the co-founder and founder of Youtube supposedly started this company so I'm not sure how long this greatness is going to last.
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    • Profile picture of the author Deidra Renee
      Originally Posted by BlogDiva View Post

      OMG..I hate Paypal too. I have been using WePay.com for the past 8 months and it's going great. However, the co-founder and founder of Youtube supposedly started this company so I'm not sure how long this greatness is going to last.
      I LOVE Wepay. I Found out about it while watching Millionaire Matchmaker..the founder was trying to get hooked up lol I didn't know he was associated with YouTube though, but this is a great way to accept checks via email too! You just send an invoice the same way you would with paypal, but they enter their check info instead of credit card.
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      • Profile picture of the author SirThomas
        Originally Posted by Deidra Renee View Post

        I LOVE Wepay. I Found out about it while watching Millionaire Matchmaker..the founder was trying to get hooked up lol I didn't know he was associated with YouTube though, but this is a great way to accept checks via email too! You just send an invoice the same way you would with paypal, but they enter their check info instead of credit card.
        Hi Deidra, can you send invoices that only allow for payments by check?


        Thomas
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        • Profile picture of the author TheCG
          Originally Posted by SirThomas View Post

          Hi Deidra, can you send invoices that only allow for payments by check?


          Thomas

          Not Deidra but maybe I can help.

          The invoices you send allow the client to pay with either a credit card or a check. I can find no way to only allow one or the other.

          You might be able to encourage them to pay with a check by requiring the client pay the fees and showing them that the fee for a check is fixed at .50 while the credit card is 3.5%.

          I have to say again that I am blown away by both the customer service I have seen with them today with all of my questions and all the features they offer.
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          • Profile picture of the author SirThomas
            Originally Posted by TheCG View Post

            Not Deidra but maybe I can help.

            The invoices you send allow the client to pay with either a credit card or a check. I can find no way to only allow one or the other.

            You might be able to encourage them to pay with a check by requiring the client pay the fees and showing them that the fee for a check is fixed at .50 while the credit card is 3.5%.

            I have to say again that I am blown away by both the customer service I have seen with them today with all of my questions and all the features they offer.
            Thanks for the answer. When you send an invoice, do you know what process the payor has to go through? if they want to pay by check, do they have to sign up for the service?

            I am trying to compare WePay with Intuit system and they give you the opportunity to offer only check option. Fees are the same.


            Thomas
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            • Profile picture of the author TheCG
              Originally Posted by SirThomas View Post

              Thanks for the answer. When you send an invoice, do you know what process the payor has to go through? if they want to pay by check, do they have to sign up for the service?

              I am trying to compare WePay with Intuit system and they give you the opportunity to offer only check option. Fees are the same.


              Thomas
              No, the customer does not have to sign up. If they do sign up they can save their preferred method of payment (and you get a one time, $20 credit to your account while they get a $10 credit).

              So far, it looks as though what one of their people told me yesterday is true. They want to make the whole process as simple and easy as possible.
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      • Profile picture of the author BlogDiva
        Originally Posted by Deidra Renee View Post

        I LOVE Wepay. I Found out about it while watching Millionaire Matchmaker..the founder was trying to get hooked up lol I didn't know he was associated with YouTube though, but this is a great way to accept checks via email too! You just send an invoice the same way you would with paypal, but they enter their check info instead of credit card.
        Yes Deidra..I love Wepay too. I really like the fact that when I do a withdrawal I get my money the next day in my bank account. They are strictly for collecting money and their payment process is so smooth. They still have more features to implement but so far so good!
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  • Profile picture of the author SEOLee
    My experiance with Paypal is hold funds recieved for a week atleast and don't withdraw everything and make a withdrawel every week, not like every day.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
    Sorry but we at PP have changed our "risk profile and we don't like Internet Marketers."
    That statement isn't exactly truthful.

    Any business selling any type of product online is an internet marketer. If this statement was true then they'd have to hate themselves because they own ebay which is nothing but marketing online.

    A more accurate definition is, they don't like the make money online marketers and its outrageous income claims, and the ill-informed we'll get you the 1# spot on Google SEO providers who make guarantees about rankings they are in NO CONTROL over. They also don't like people acting like a business but don't operate like one.
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    • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
      Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

      That statement isn't exactly truthful.

      Any business selling any type of product online is an internet marketer. If this statement was true then they'd have to hate themselves because they own ebay which is nothing but marketing online.

      A more accurate definition is, they don't like the make money online marketers and its outrageous income claims, and the ill-informed we'll get you the 1# spot on Google SEO providers who make guarantees about rankings they are in NO CONTROL over. They also don't like people acting like a business but don't operate like one.
      Steve who is a manager in the Risk Management Department said straight up, they are rebranding and have a new profiling algorithm for those who sell intangible items. SEO, Web Design, Services, ebooks, are all included.

      I think it's safe to say that any real business, that may have made the mistake of not having a backup processor, needs to take an extra step to build a safety net right now.
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      • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
        So you are basically saying that they will be more closely examining accounts that process intangible things like, SEO, reports, services, etc. but won't necessarily discontinue taking payments for these?

        I do know that they have been looking closely at SEO service because many people make guarantees about rankings of which they are truly not in control of, and also the make money online products which is pretty self explanatory.

        Regardless, I will be delivering all my products via CD in the near future which will require a confirmed paypal shipping address.

        Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

        Steve who is a manager in the Risk Management Department said straight up, they are rebranding and have a new profiling algorithm for those who sell intangible items. SEO, Web Design, Services, ebooks, are all included.

        I think it's safe to say that any real business, that may have made the mistake of not having a backup processor, needs to take an extra step to build a safety net right now.
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        • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
          Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

          So you are basically saying that they will be more closely examining accounts that process intangible things like, SEO, reports, services, etc. but won't necessarily discontinue taking payments for these?

          I do know that they have been looking closely at SEO service because many people make guarantees about rankings of which they are truly not in control of, and also the make money online products which is pretty self explanatory.

          Regardless, I will be delivering all my products via CD in the near future which will require a confirmed paypal shipping address.
          Yeah, basically anything that isn't SHIPPED and confirmed with a tracking number is placed as high risk. If you have a history of intangible items, doesn't matter if you had disputes or not, they may place a hold, but if you ship the item, you may be able to get them to release funds after a week.

          To stop the hold, or have early access to the money, you will need to perform the service, ship a CD like you said, wait 3 days after they have received it, and if there is no dispute then the money can be released.
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  • Profile picture of the author Quentin
    That recording shows why people loose their account. One mouth two ears. Which one was used the most?

    Justification will never get you anywhere in the real world.

    Having said this I am really sorry that you lost your account but an opportunity for something new.

    Q
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  • Profile picture of the author O0o0O
    It's the claims PayPal doesn't like. If your account is getting lots of unauthorized transaction claims, refunds and complaints, then that's what's going to shut down your account. Also your response time to claims has to be quick, or else they will flag your account for deactivation.
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    • Profile picture of the author Bruce NewMedia
      Originally Posted by O0o0O View Post

      It's the claims PayPal doesn't like. If your account is getting lots of unauthorized transaction claims, refunds and complaints, then that's what's going to shut down your account. Also your response time to claims has to be quick, or else they will flag your account for deactivation.
      I'm interested in what you are basing these comments on?

      Have you personally experienced this? How, for instance, is an "Unauthorized Transaction" claim any fault of the product seller?

      Also, PayPal allows 10 days to respond to claims, are you saying they are shutting sellers down because they don't respond sooner than 10 days?

      Just trying to understand whether these are provable facts, or just opinions.
      _____
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      • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
        Originally Posted by Bruce NewMedia View Post

        I'm interested in what you are basing these comments on?

        Have you personally experienced this? How, for instance, is an "Unauthorized Transaction" claim any fault of the product seller?

        Also, PayPal allows 10 days to respond to claims, are you saying they are shutting sellers down because they don't respond sooner than 10 days?

        Just trying to understand whether these are provable facts, or just opinions.
        _____
        Bruce
        They shut down sellers if they don't respond to claims. How fast you respond has nothing to do with it according to paypal. Depending on the amount of claims you have per transaction is another deciding factor.
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        • Profile picture of the author sprks79
          So how will this work with WSO's? Should be considered a product right? or will they find a way to dislike those as well?? Any thoughts?
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        • Profile picture of the author manu007
          When talking about online payment systems like pay pal or bank payment, the term fraud is expected to be related to the payer or the payee. A pay pal fraud could thus mean that the payer uses a bad credit card to fund his pay pal account. It could also mean that the payee (receiver) does not provide the merchandise or service for which he was paid through pay pal. However, the most dangerous pay pal frauds of today involve a fraudster who is neither the payer nor the payee. The pay pal frauds that we refer to are those where a third person (fraudster) steals the pay pal account of a person and then uses (or rather mis-uses) the funds in the pay pal account. For any online payment system, the most important information that would be required to access the account would be through a username and password to login to the account. A common pay pal fraud involves an attempt by a fraudster to get the username and password of pay pal accounts that belong to others.
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        • Profile picture of the author Edk
          Thanks up for the Heads Up guys. I'm just about to need a payment processor so this info is timely. It's nothing to do 'business model' or any such thing. They showed me their true colors one time when I bought a hundred dollar item and they hit bank account twice for the one payment. Did I have to jump through hoops to get re-credited? A word of apology from them would have been nice.

          When you buy online it used to be possible to pay by credit card even if you had a paypal account. I would do this after my experiences with them. They've handled things so you can't do that anymore. Nice company.
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  • Profile picture of the author Cocobrico
    Thanks for the heads up! I use an alternative anyway, unless the client REALLY wants to use Paypal.
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  • Profile picture of the author kymobilemedia
    I currently use freshbooks for invoicing through paypal, but I am going to switch to authorize.net and avoid paypal. I just don't trust them anymore after listening to that call.

    I will also be able to do auto bill with them for monthly payments, and be able to accepts cards over the phone.

    I also have square as a backup if needed.
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  • Profile picture of the author Emmanuel Sopitan
    Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

    This thread is not meant to start a debate... this is just a friendly warning for those of you wanting to get started, and those of you that are processing a lot of your payments through paypal.

    I have always stuck up for PayPal when people would complain and say that they limit or hold funds in the accounts. The truth is, paypal was right in many cases, and the horror stories you have heard about were not always very accurate.

    HOWEVER!!!!!!!

    PayPal is changing. Are you offering products or services? If products you will likely be safer. If services, or intangible items, you're going to be experiencing some problems within the next 6 months.

    Newer accounts are more likely to experience 21 day holds on funds, the same applies for older accounts who don't provide shipping information on products, services will be out of luck.

    If you are running an offline business and using paypal as a way to process most of your payments, I would suggest moving to a REAL merchant account ASAP.

    One of my paypal accounts, one that made them over $8,000 through transaction fees, was placed on a 21 day hold earlier this week. Spoke with a manager in the Risk Management Department of paypal and he said there was nothing I did wrong, just changing their policies and it will be reevaluated every 35-40 days.

    Anyway.. start looking for a merchant processing service, there are many out there that are great. iPayment is a decent one and they include a gateway with authorize.net, would recommend checking them out!
    This is true. They just suspend mine, I use it entirely for my BMR writing service. I will be using 2CO now.
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  • Profile picture of the author Hugh
    Sorry for your troubles, but happy for the "Heads-Up."
    Was about to roll out a new service using PP for recurring
    payments, like I do on some of my rental sights. Really
    got my attention. Have heard good things about Merchant
    Express and will be chasing that TODAY!

    Hugh
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  • Profile picture of the author nathanjacobs
    One alternative that has gotten great press lately for not doing this to merchants is:

    http://www.stripe.com

    They have done well for me so far. No trouble whatsoever.
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  • Profile picture of the author Fawad Naseer
    so you got your money or not?
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    • Profile picture of the author TheCG
      I checked out Wepay and gave them a call. These guys sound too good to be true!
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      • Profile picture of the author BlogDiva
        Originally Posted by TheCG View Post

        I checked out Wepay and gave them a call. These guys sound too good to be true!
        WePay is the TRUTH! Trust me..I have been using them for a about 8 months now and their customer service is top notch. They have a instant chat service that pops up as soon as you visit their site, you can call and talk to someone and everyone is so nice and professional. You get a debit card as soon as you make your first $5.00 and you can get a debit card for each individual account so that you can keep events, businesses, whatever you have going on separate.
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        • Profile picture of the author TheCG
          Originally Posted by BlogDiva View Post

          WePay is the TRUTH! Trust me..I have been using them for a about 8 months now and their customer service is top notch. They have a instant chat service that pops up as soon as you visit their site, you can call and talk to someone and everyone is so nice and professional. You get a debit card as soon as you make your first $5.00 and you can get a debit card for each individual account so that you can keep events, businesses, whatever you have going on separate.
          I had several conversations and chats with them yesterday and I have to agree. All very friendly and helpful.

          If their service lives up to their customer relations promise, look out Paypal!
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          • Profile picture of the author BlogDiva
            Originally Posted by TheCG View Post

            I had several conversations and chats with them yesterday and I have to agree. All very friendly and helpful.

            If their service lives up to their customer relations promise, look out Paypal!
            Yes, they are definitely going to be a competition for Paypal once they implement more of the features that most of us are use to.
            The do offer a store option but not a buy now button yet.
            So far their service has lived up to what they say for me.
            I have used it for events, I invoice customers all the time; most of them pay by credit or debit card but check is an option but they have to confirm their bank account the first time they use a check.
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  • Profile picture of the author perfectpixel
    Banned
    I remember there was a WSO about the common pitfalls and potential hazards involving running your business with paypal
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  • Profile picture of the author kbrady
    I have read so much about Paypal closing account. Makes me nervous. Thanks for the information.
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  • Profile picture of the author HKSEO Jonbones
    Yes paypal can bone you pretty bad, but a lot of consumers out there don't trust other services...

    not to mention that lots of them have figured out ways to game paypal-get service, use it, and charge back.

    sux
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  • Profile picture of the author Seantrepreneur
    Umm I've never really used paypal for payment services. We use Intuit payment services and its been working pretty well so far. The recurring payments are easy to set up too. I have heard alll kinds of bad things about about paypal tho.

    Thanks for the heads up.

    Sean
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    • Profile picture of the author SirThomas
      Originally Posted by Seantrepreneur View Post

      Umm I've never really used paypal for payment services. We use Intuit payment services and its been working pretty well so far. The recurring payments are easy to set up too. I have heard alll kinds of bad things about about paypal tho.

      Thanks for the heads up.

      Sean
      Sean, do they make customers (payors) go through hoops when making a payment with check? I need to ask their support what's the actual flow for the payor. Whether they have to sign up or accept couple of micro-deposits to confirm their bank accounts etc...

      Unless, you know the answers? It would be appreciated!


      Thomas
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  • Profile picture of the author Jen Eick
    TheTG....Thanks for the info on WePay. I'd been planning to use PayPal (even though I've just heard so many negative things, and would prefer to avoid them at all costs), and so I will look into this as an alternative.

    I also think it's awesome that Anthony recorded and has a link to that PayPal call.

    Thanks to everyone who's weighed in on this as well. Right now I'm basically of the opinion "Anyone but PayPal"!!

    It cracks me up in their (WePay's) video...when one of their customers, at the beginning of her testimonial on why she tried it, starts her explanation: "Paypal froze our accounts..." Sounds like she's definitely not alone!!
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  • Profile picture of the author jct226
    Thanks for the heads up
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  • Profile picture of the author Hugh
    OK. I did sign up with Merchant Express. They are an affiliate
    of AuthorizeNet. Good terms.

    Hugh
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    "Some see private enterprise as a predatory target to be shot, others as a cow to be milked, but few are those who see it as a sturdy horse pulling the wagon." -- Winston Churchill

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    • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
      Originally Posted by Hugh View Post

      OK. I did sign up with Merchant Express. They are an affiliate
      of AuthorizeNet. Good terms.

      Hugh
      Yep, good job! A real merchant account kind of establishes you as more professional too. Especially when you have someone on the phone wanting to give you their CC info right then and there, you don't want to say, okay I'll send you an invoice through paypal, you want to process that immediately!
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      • Profile picture of the author Lina T
        Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

        You want to process that immediately!
        Hands down I agree - before it ends up on a to-do list somewhere or enough time passes where minds are changed ... I love being able to get off the phone and having control over processing the payment ...
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  • Profile picture of the author Lina T
    Paypal has positioned themselves as such so as long as consumers (us) bend to work with their rules they will continue to operate with some of these crazy policies.

    I have my own merchant account - it is expensive, but so worth it - I know only use Paypal if absolutely necessary, which is still quite a bit because sometimes people just do not want to give you their credit card number in certain arenas (such as on here - can you imagine selling a $10 product here and asking people for a credit card number? It would not really work) ... but I still have more than 50% of my business transactions completed outside of Paypal ...
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  • Profile picture of the author imageworx
    I was interested in Wepay, so I checked out their TOS and it says using WePay to sell "Digital Goods" is prohibited... interesting
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    • Profile picture of the author SirThomas
      Originally Posted by imageworx View Post

      I was interested in Wepay, so I checked out their TOS and it says using WePay to sell "Digital Goods" is prohibited... interesting
      Yes, I found that too. This needs to be researched further. Websites, sms, seo, mobile sites, hosting or any other "internet" oriented service might fall into this category...


      Thomas
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  • Profile picture of the author maz1207
    Hi, i didn't know they have this policies. I like their services though, i have use Moneybookers before and have sent payment to a scammer. I contacted Moneybookers and all they can say is that i have to contact the scammer. I prefer to use Paypal since then but i think it's good to use Moneybookers to get payment.
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  • Profile picture of the author paul_1
    Thanks for the heads up... I've heard many good stories about authorize.net...
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  • Profile picture of the author echo3030
    Yea that sucks I got my PayPal account frozen a few years ago and it took several weeks before they would release my funds of $6,500. I think they are doing this because they are catching flack from the Credit Card companies but I was furious to say the least. I'm using another payment processor now I don't have time to play games with paypal.
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  • Profile picture of the author marketingstatic
    I was just discussing this very thing about how best to take payments as Im starting to hire outside sales team they asked how do we get payments set up. I currently only have PP so now I'm a little FREAKED thanks...lol--I may have to call my friends his wife works for paypal. There's a huge Paypal building about 35 miles from my home and they actually were going to offer me a job doing tech support but they said my bad credit made it so they cant extend the offer since their considered a financial institution. So I know a few people that work there and going to have to pick their brains a bit.

    To add to what was said above I have seen those Scanners to take payments VIA Iphones/Ipod Touch are also selling at Target and Walmart for the same 10.00.
    Lastly I cant recall which Bank but some huge bank like BofA I think advertises that commercial where the NBA or Sports guy gets a check and his Agent Scans it in with an Andriod App before his client gets injured and he loses the money.
    I found this link just now online: No Affiliate just a link with some people that posted about the banks that take scanned checks.
    http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/1070073/
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  • Profile picture of the author K Kumar
    Their's a reason I refer to them as Praypal.
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  • Profile picture of the author Teez
    Mannnnnnn that's upsetting I was going to use the Paypal Subscription service for month to month recurring payments as I've always used paypal.

    What about if you have proof of invoices i.e paper invoices for all reccurring transactions does anyone think that will serve as proof for the ''services''.


    So far I'm seeing

    Authorize.net
    Intuit payment services
    Fresh Books
    CD
    Moneybookers
    Google Checkout
    Payoneer
    wepay.com
    www.stripe.com


    But it seems people are swayed towards wepay?
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    • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
      Originally Posted by Teez View Post

      Mannnnnnn that's upsetting I was going to use the Paypal Subscription service for month to month recurring payments as I've always used paypal.

      What about if you have proof of invoices i.e paper invoices for all reccurring transactions does anyone think that will serve as proof for the ''services''.


      So far I'm seeing

      Authorize.net
      Intuit payment services
      Fresh Books
      CD
      Moneybookers
      Google Checkout
      Payoneer
      wepay.com
      www.stripe.com


      But it seems people are swayed towards wepay?
      Wepay still isn't a real merchant account. They're less known, not as trusted, but when you use a real merchant account with the authorize.net gateway, most people realize it is very secure. P

      As for copies of invoices, it's necessary in doing business, but PayPal doesn't care. One thing I noticed in the majority of account freezes with paypal, is that many of them had recurring payments. Be careful.
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      • Profile picture of the author Teez
        Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

        Wepay still isn't a real merchant account. They're less known, not as trusted, but when you use a real merchant account with the authorize.net gateway, most people realize it is very secure. P

        As for copies of invoices, it's necessary in doing business, but PayPal doesn't care. One thing I noticed in the majority of account freezes with paypal, is that many of them had recurring payments. Be careful.
        Thanks dude ok so in your experience lets say using the rent a site model what would you suggest as best means of taking recurring payments?

        Oh PS i'm referring to in the UK so if any other UK peeps have any info this would be much appreciated.
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        • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
          Originally Posted by Teez View Post

          Thanks dude ok so in your experience lets say using the rent a site model what would you suggest as best means of taking recurring payments?

          Oh PS i'm referring to in the UK so if any other UK peeps have any info this would be much appreciated.
          Well.. I am not a rent a site model expert, I actually learned the concept here and put it to work. I had my doubts about it but it has worked out well so far.

          As for taking payment, it depends if you're local or not with the client. If you're local? A check could work well, and keep them more loyal, longer. If they are not local, you can set up recurring payments in authorize.net
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  • Profile picture of the author robin lee
    Has anyone heard of Payoneer? Peerfly has just moved to them as their payment method. Perhaps they were having the same reservations or problems with paypal.

    "Enjoy the benefits of your Payoneer Prepaid MasterCard®

    • Commissions go immediately into your working capital
    • Immediate access to your money within two hours
    • No more waiting weeks to receive and clear checks
    • Spend and withdraw funds in ANY local currency
    • No bank account or credit checks are required
    • Your funds are secured. If your card is lost or stolen, we will provide a replacement card and transfer your balance (be sure to report it immediately!)"
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    • Profile picture of the author tdorland
      I use quickbooks online and therefore intuit now. I've had no problems with them so far. Their customer service is fantastic, and it's really easy to run transactions.

      In the past I used paypal when I was in top tier direct sales. This was 2008. I had string of GREAT months in a row where I ran 25k+ through paypal. A manager called me telling me that I had to establish a reserve acct of 50K if I wanted to keep processing through them AND they were holding 30K indefinitely. I never had a chargeback or any complaints, and no form of recourse. It took over 6 months to get my funds...paypal is f'ing garbage as a payment processor.

      I stopped running money through paypal that day and switched to cardservices international at that point and didn't have any problems with them after that.
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    • Profile picture of the author Nissim
      Originally Posted by robin lee View Post

      Has anyone heard of Payoneer? Peerfly has just moved to them as their payment method. Perhaps they were having the same reservations or problems with paypal.

      "Enjoy the benefits of your Payoneer Prepaid MasterCard®

      • Commissions go immediately into your working capital
      • Immediate access to your money within two hours
      • No more waiting weeks to receive and clear checks
      • Spend and withdraw funds in ANY local currency
      • No bank account or credit checks are required
      • Your funds are secured. If your card is lost or stolen, we will provide a replacement card and transfer your balance (be sure to report it immediately!)"
      Payoneer is a leading provider of global payout solutions, and we're happy to be an official payment method for Peerfly.

      As mentioned in their recent blog post, they're waiving the activation fee for anyone who applies for the card in the month of March.

      In addition to the prepaid card, you can also receive your Peerfly payments via Payoneer's local bank transfer service, which supports local bank transfers to 35+ countries and transfers to an additional 170+ countries via SWIFT.
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      Nissim
      Director of Community at Payoneer

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  • Profile picture of the author bob ross
    ..........
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  • Profile picture of the author befree22
    Everytime you turn around the big boys are looking to screw web-based companies.
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    The turtle always wins.

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  • Profile picture of the author almiller
    Thats a horror story if I ever read one. What if PayPal is your primary processor and they do that. How are you supposed to generate income?

    Alberto
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    • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
      Originally Posted by almiller View Post

      Thats a horror story if I ever read one. What if PayPal is your primary processor and they do that. How are you supposed to generate income?

      Alberto
      That is basically why I am trying to warn people to start having a backup. This thread isn't really JUST for paypal users, but perhaps everyone. I have 2 merchant accounts, my newest one has a 5k/mo limit which I keep it at perfectly and in good standing, I'll probably increase it to 10K/mo in the next week or so, just in case something happens with my CURRENT merchant account.

      Always have a back up... be diverse, and versatile. That is what you need in business... people are always talking about how to do this and this new form of lead generation and blah blah blah, but they never tell you how important it is to be safe, and PROTECT your business!
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  • Profile picture of the author twentyfivedollardesign
    Great information. im going to look into using some of these providers apart from paypal
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