OFFLINE GOLDRUSH: RED-HOT or just a MIRAGE? Reality check.

by qwqw
62 replies
I'm not really involved in offline thing but I still managed to do a few offline projects for some businesses.

Seeing all this craze in this offline and WSO section about offliners selling the "how to make a killing with local businesses" makes me wonder whether this opportunity is a real gold or it's just selling hype to make it look like one.


In my personal experience I did not find that a few biz owners I talked to are crazy about that "online thing".

Many do not even understand why they need google, adwords, mobile, etc, if the business is going well without this stuff.

Some others would not mind to have a "webpage" or "something but they do not want to pay for it.

Since I do not do this often I can't really approve or disapprove what is going on but despite of believing that its an good opportunity I still had some doubts about this "offline" thing being on high demand .



We all know that in order to make money you have to sell what people want to buy. Right?

So is it a really that thing people (biz owners) want to buy badly?




But what was a bit a shocking for me is the story I learned recently from a guy I know.


Here is the story as he told me.



-- STORY START--

I started getting into offline marketing at the end of 2011. Got quite a few courses on that stuff. All proposed different approach how to find the clients.

The bottom line was is to find those who already understand the Internet. The other thing was to look for business who currently advertise (YP, papers, flyers, etc.).

I ran two tests.

Test #1.

My approach was is to get to YP's popular biz niches and collect biz info from there.

The thinking was that the first thing any business would do is to get listed in YP by tradition. So YP must have the most of any other biz listings. That, obviously, would include those who advertises somewhere else.

I started from Canada. So I collected biz info. Total was about 6,000 contacts.

I sent e-mails to all those contacts just playing the number game as we all know it.

Each e-mail was individualized with business Name, address, and website so it, obviously, was not looking like mass emailing.


Nothing in the e-mail offered to buy anything.



The e-mail consisted from three parts.

First part was an invitation for the interview if a business was marketing online.

The second part of the e-mail was a brief report about biz website issues with the offer to provide a more detailed free report.

The third part of the e-mail was a no-obligation offer for a free $100 Google adwords voucher as a gift for reading the e-mail.

So each part of the e-mail could produce some leads be it an an interview, or a report or a voucher.

Result of this 6,000 biz emailing campaign:

- 2 phone calls with an hour spend on each with no further action from biz owners.

- 5 responses for the interview from those who do not have any interest in marketing online

- 15 responses for a free report. Non of them ever came back despite a few follow ups

- 1 request for adwords voucher ( to do it by themselves).

Final result: 0 clients.



Test #2.

Second test was conducted by using local online popular classifieds site.

I was running an ad for requesting contractor for a home renovation project. Of course, I got over 800 responses from local contractors.

What I did is I setup an autoresponder and each contractor would get it after replying the ad.

In the autoresponder message along with the renovation project details I set up an advertisement offering those contractors to find more clients for them online for free.

Result: 0 ( zero) interest. No one took on the offer.




My general conclusion is:

- If I was doing something wrong but in "boom" times (if it's real boom) when the services are really-really HOT indeed even a bad offer will bring some business. it's a well known fact.

-while there is a market for those services and obviously, some marketers are making money with it the market is not really big and, of course, it is not hot at all. Otherwise, you would not have to push the envelope so hard just to land one client.

- Despite of "millions of businesses out there" only minority of businesses in any niche are going for online services. That is demand is very limited. Just look at any niche advertising on Google adwords in your city and you will see only handful businesses there while there are hundreds of businesses in the area in that niche. Despite Google pushing hard by giving away adwords vouchers.

- With all that offline craze when every Joe and his brother is trying to get in to this offline gold rush the supply of such services is very high. Due to high supply and low demand the value of such services is down. The value is down and it is hard to make good money in it (until the supply will decrease and demand will increase).


- The value of those "make money offline" courses is close to 0 because I truly believe that 99.9% of those authors have not made a dime in real offline world. It's all based on just speculation and theory or, possibly, a single incident of getting a client without a proven long term record.


I may stick around offline for a little bit more before I get completely back to my "old online routine" but now I become a more believer that majority of those who is trying to get in "offline" has never succeeded in "online".

That is where I remember a phrase by a 90s famous direct marketing guy Brad Richdale that the only reason people become business consultants is because they are not capable to run their own business.


--- STORY END ----



the point of the story is that offline gold is not that shiny as many say.

So what you think of this? Anybody who, actually, know for sure from the real experience wants to prove otherwise without trying to sell the stuff? Is offline consulting a really HOT stuff?




Thanks
#check #goldrush #mirage #offline #reality #redhot
  • Profile picture of the author racso316
    First of all, congrats on taking action. Although not the right action, at least you and your friend are getting their feet wet.

    Also, thanks for the statistics on cold emailing, nothing new there.

    I see 2 things wrong here.

    1. Selling a commodity and bad positioning.

    2. Horrible media to deliver message. Cold emailing should be at the bottom of your list. Actually it shouldn't even be there.

    At least follow up with a phone call. Always follow up.

    Most advise here is to start with cold calling and I think you should do that. If anything, send direct mail pieces and then warm call. With regards to the ad on newspaper, maybe send them to an 800 number educating and qualifying even deeper.

    Keep on going man. Field is wide open. Don't give up.
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    • Profile picture of the author David Miller
      This isn't really a matter of "proving otherwise" about the worth of the offline world. To me, it sounds like what you are trying to do is convert an offline business to an online business.

      That's not really the goal. I read your post a couple of times trying to get an understanding of what it is you were marketing, and I have no idea what it may have been.

      You're coming to a conclusion about "offline" by comparing it to online. Offline isn't necessarily about converting the corner candy store into an e-commerce site. To work with offline business effectively you have to have somewhat of an understanding about how their business functions. From that point, you need to determine what services you can offer to enhance their position in the marketplace.
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      • Profile picture of the author qwqw
        If you're talking about the 6,000 emailing than it was not a sale pitch at all.

        from the story I understand It was a soft lead generation strategy along with testing the water how hot the "online marketing" is in local biz owners eyes and how businesses respond to this "offline to online things".

        The result appeared not being that bright shiny.

        And that is the purpose of this post is to see if anybody can put a real proven positive light on offline/online things.



        Originally Posted by David Miller View Post

        This isn't really a matter of "proving otherwise" about the worth of the offline world. To me, it sounds like what you are trying to do is convert an offline business to an online business.

        That's not really the goal. I read your post a couple of times trying to get an understanding of what it is you were marketing, and I have no idea what it may have been.

        You're coming to a conclusion about "offline" by comparing it to online. Offline isn't necessarily about converting the corner candy store into an e-commerce site. To work with offline business effectively you have to have somewhat of an understanding about how their business functions. From that point, you need to determine what services you can offer to enhance their position in the marketplace.
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        • Profile picture of the author David Miller
          Was Brad Richdale the guy that had an infomercial years ago selling some kind of make a zillion online kit.

          Gave you a website and all kinds of garbage then had some upsell
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          The big lesson in life, baby, is never be scared of anyone or anything.
          -- FRANK SINATRA, quoted in The Way You Wear Your Hat
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          • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
            Originally Posted by David Miller View Post

            Was Brad Richdale the guy that had an infomercial years ago selling some kind of make a zillion online kit.

            Gave you a website and all kinds of garbage then had some upsell
            he had a 89.99 infomercial selling info on how to sell info.

            then he had a back end machine ... sold all kinds of stuff
            priced from 499. - 25,000.

            one of the things was selling websites to business ... when businesses
            did not even know the internet existed, and most of them did NOT even have computers.

            That's how i cut my teeth,

            So many people think its hard selling websites, and mobile sites now....

            Well at least now everyone knows what the internet is, and has a computer and a cell phone.

            He was also a great proponent of the K.I.S.S. method, specially
            as it pertained to selling tech wares.

            which i have to admit, works wonders.... all these years later.
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  • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
    Originally Posted by qwqw View Post

    That is where I remember a phrase by a 90s famous direct marketing guy Brad Richdale that the only reason people become business consultants is because they are not capable to run their own business.

    Thanks
    That's the guy who tought me how to really, really sell on the phone.
    i don't mean through some course.

    I worked FOR and WITH him for years.

    Before i met him, i THOUGHT i new how to sell. I was wrong.

    Brad was one BAD MOFO on the phone.

    His understanding of how to get and retain a customer was amazing.
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    Selling Ain't for Sissies!
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  • Profile picture of the author payoman
    Was the entire point of this post something alone these lines...

    "Offline isn't as good as people say it is"

    ?

    Because I thought I'd chime in here, if you look at the offline forum, I recently wrote a post about my first sale in offline marketing. To give you an idea of what it took to land my first sale, roughly :

    - Between 30-40 cold calls
    - Interest from about 10% of those
    - Meetings with 2 out of 40
    - Landed 1 out of 2 meetings so far.

    Not bad statistics in my opinion, only 40 calls per client means at least a client per week easily, with only 7 or 8 calls per day if you were lazy.

    I believe cold calling is king for this reason :

    - You can instantly answer any specific question the prospect has
    - You can use persuasion to encourage the client

    Why I believe cold-emailing (and even emailing in general) won't work :

    - Ask yourself, do you even get cold email to your inbox? It is filtered probably 80% of the time
    - Would you even have time to read the dozens of junk emails you get as a business owner? Business owners wouldn't receieve nearly as many cold calls as cold emails.
    - I believe we automatically regard any email from a company as spammy at best. A cold call brings connection, as my first client said, he was impressed from the call. It's rare to be 'impressed' by an email
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  • Profile picture of the author djv1120
    I think local marketing is a huge opportunity, but it is hard to convince business owners to spend the money unless you can show them concrete ROI. After you get a few clients in a local area, you should be able to build some momentum.

    I am far from highly successful in the offline world, but have found some clients and the key is to get them to see the potential pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. If you can follow that up with a delivered customer that can be tied to the internet, you are in.

    The thing I would recommend is to focus on the needs of the business and I just don't think you can really do that when you are sending out 6000 emails. That is too much like a form letter. I think you need to do something to make yourself stand out from the crowd.
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  • Profile picture of the author farkry
    Originally Posted by qwqw View Post


    Some others would not mind to have a "webpage" or "something but they do not want to pay for it.

    Thanks
    This is exactly what I'm seeing at the moment, I'm not even getting into sophisticated online services at the moment, just professional websites for traders and local companies, very much in the vein of small local web designer. They really would rather wait 6 months for their mate at the pub to do it for free (and never deliver).

    http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-...ml#post5817296
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  • Profile picture of the author ryanmckinney
    Originally Posted by qwqw View Post


    So what you think of this? Anybody who, actually, know for sure from the real experience wants to prove otherwise without trying to sell the stuff? Is offline consulting a really HOT stuff?

    Offline consulting is "hot" stuff now in the IM world, simply because marketers are marketing info products around the buzz.

    I to saw the "trend" in October/November.

    I grabbed a couple of WSOs, took action, and have paying clients that are making money from my efforts. Prior to November, I had never ran a successful SEO campaign, nor sold 1 thing to anyone, outside of selling M&Ms to my neighbors during middle school (well parents did most of the selling).

    So is it a viable business model? Yes. Is it the trend for marketers to push to would be "marketers" looking for financial freedom? Yes.

    A small percentage will take action to some degree. Even smaller percentage will actually do it "effectively" and land clients, and I would assume even a smaller percentage of these "percentages" will create a business out of it.

    I intend to be the smallest of the small percentages.

    Ryan
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    • Profile picture of the author link82
      Originally Posted by ryanmckinney View Post

      Offline consulting is "hot" stuff now in the IM world, simply because marketers are marketing info products around the buzz.

      I to saw the "trend" in October/November.

      I grabbed a couple of WSOs, took action, and have paying clients that are making money from my efforts. Prior to November, I had never ran a successful SEO campaign, nor sold 1 thing to anyone, outside of selling M&Ms to my neighbors during middle school (well parents did most of the selling).

      So is it a viable business model? Yes. Is it the trend for marketers to push to would be "marketers" looking for financial freedom? Yes.

      A small percentage will take action to some degree. Even smaller percentage will actually do it "effectively" and land clients, and I would assume even a smaller percentage of these "percentages" will create a business out of it.

      I intend to be the smallest of the small percentages.

      Ryan
      Well put Ryan! Last year, I was just f***ing around and just wanted to make money without having to put in much effort as some WSOs lead you to believe. However, I have realized I really like doing this stuff and that I'm going to build a real business out of it.

      With that said, I am sending out personalized mailers and following up by phone (that's tomorrow). After two weeks of trying to get **** together, this week, I'll finally be sending 50 mailers out. It seems like getting my first few clients is going to be tough--but it's cool. That's how most businesses (small) gets started! Especially when you're a 1 man team [or 2]...

      I did read you sent out cold emails. I get plenty a day telling me how they'll rank my niche sites, blahblahblah, and they all end up deleted or in spam. I got my first client by sending about 7 dentists personalized videos. I think I got lucky. Since then, I recorded 30 and didn't get much of a response. I had to wonder how many went into spam...

      I think you should try various strategies and commit yourself. Not try something, see if it's a gold mine and then dig in. Like anything, this is (or may not be) your business.

      It will require sweat and tears. That reminds me, it's time for me to shed a few
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      • Profile picture of the author ryanmckinney
        Originally Posted by link82 View Post

        Well put Ryan! Last year, I was just f***ing around and just wanted to make money without having to put in much effort as some WSOs lead you to believe. However, I have realized I really like doing this stuff and that I'm going to build a real business out of it.

        With that said, I am sending out personalized mailers and following up by phone (that's tomorrow). After two weeks of trying to get **** together, this week, I'll finally be sending 50 mailers out. It seems like getting my first few clients is going to be tough--but it's cool. That's how most businesses (small) gets started! Especially when you're a 1 man team [or 2]...

        I did read you sent out cold emails. I get plenty a day telling me how they'll rank my niche sites, blahblahblah, and they all end up deleted or in spam. I got my first client by sending about 7 dentists personalized videos. I think I got lucky. Since then, I recorded 30 and didn't get much of a response. I had to wonder how many went into spam...

        I think you should try various strategies and commit yourself. Not try something, see if it's a gold mine and then dig in. Like anything, this is (or may not be) your business.

        It will require sweat and tears. That reminds me, it's time for me to shed a few

        Link,

        It is harder than sales copy will lead you to believe, but I was not dumb to this fact going in.

        Once you get a few clients, do a good job, they will refer you out rather easily (at least mine did). Then when they gave me referrals that I did not solicit for, I said great, I'll take off %50 of your monthly payment, so they started referring me EVEN more. 1 client has 2 free months coming up! (I take off alot if I close the deal, and I give a discount if I don't).
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  • Profile picture of the author MaxReferrals
    Nice case study.

    Let's not forget: It's not about blindly contacting people, although that can indeed work... but it's a long-shot. It's about identifying others needs, and helping them solve those needs.

    The problem offline, however, is the majority of business owners (including the contractors), don't understand online... nor have communicated what needs they have.

    Typically it is two things:

    1. To attract more clients and customers (to make more money)
    2. To work less, and have more freedom in their lives.

    Approach it from this angle, I it from this perspective and you can easily marry offline-to-online, help others, and make a lot of money for everyone.

    --Max
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  • Profile picture of the author tdorland
    offline and mobile seem to be really hot in the WSO world. Whatever is hot in the WSO world is not always hot in the real world. Remember, most WSO's are over hyped, over promising, and over simplified methods.

    Also remember how small of a community the warrior forum really is in relation to the rest of the world. If you spend a lot of time on this forum, you tend to get a warped view of the world - thinking that just because people on this forum are talking about it, it must be mainstream...I can tell you that unequivocally, that is NOT the case.

    There may be a few more consultants trying it as a result of reading a WSO or 2, but like ryanmckinney said above:
    "A small percentage will take action to some degree. Even smaller percentage will actually do it "effectively" and land clients, and I would assume even a smaller percentage of these "percentages" will create a business out of it."

    Of the small percentage that takes action, most will do it wrong, and of the ones that do it right, most will quit before making enough money to do it long term because they can't take rejection, or hate cold calling, or some other BS reason. Some won't understand that there's a hell of a lot of sales involved in being a consultant, and when they realize that they can't hide behind their computer and actually have to communicate with people in the real world, they fold and look for the next "easy" way to make money...

    So in my opinion, there is a hell of a lot of money to be made if it's done right and treated like a real business, and not "easy money."
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  • Profile picture of the author DWolfe
    Originally Posted by qwqw View Post


    I learned recently from a guy I know.

    I sent e-mails to 6,000 biz

    So what you think of this?


    Thanks
    How many wound up in the spam folder should be one question

    How many were never opened or just deleted.

    With the number of emails containing "Trojan horse virus" out there. Even leigimate looking ones will end up in a spam folder or deleted. I wonder if the guy that instructed you to do this method, ever tried it.
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  • Profile picture of the author RentItNow
    Just like any other business, if you are not seeing profit, you are not attracting the correct customers. If they dont see the value in marketing, they are not your customers. If they dont want to pay more than $100 for a website, they are not your customers. If they want to not give you half up front for work, they are not your customers....list goes on. When you weed all those out, YES THERE IS GOLD! And it is the same gold you can give your client. Show them how to weed out their "non-customers". Tell them it is a change in their thinking but if they are willing, it works.

    Just because people want to buy something and you are selling that something does not mean they are going to buy it from you. There could be a million reasons they just dont click with you. They are not your customers, move on. (coming from someone without any WSO or agenda). I still make more online without lifting a finger but I see no harm in chasing that offline gold and helping businesses prosper.

    You are correct in saying most of the WSO type info is of no use because the only system I have seen work is hitting the pavement, talking to people, learning business is about helping people and having them help you (pay you for your valuable services). Sure you are going to get stepped on a few times but hold out for the gold...because my friend, it is there.
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    I have no agenda but to help those in the same situation. This I feel will pay the bills.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    "Success PERIOD in ANY undertaking", just a mirage, or available for everyone?

    In offline, the playing field is equal.... There is equal opportunity. Just make the calls instead of asking whether or not it can be done. It CAN be and "is" everyday.

    We all reap whatever we sow, good or bad, negative or positive,the laws are perfect and always work the same. Negative reaping isnt punishment, its just the way the universe works. Its the measure of what we sowed... it doesnt judge, it only disperses the appropriate outcomes for whatever vibe we put out in that season.

    There are offline millionaires and hundred aires... whichever one you sow to become is what you receive.

    The good news is that everyday is the beginning of a new season.
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    • Profile picture of the author Centurian
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      "Success PERIOD in ANY undertaking", just a mirage, or available for everyone?

      In offline, the playing field is equal.... There is equal opportunity. Just make the calls instead of asking whether or not it can be done. It CAN be and "is" everyday.

      We all reap whatever we sow, good or bad, negative or positive,the laws are perfect and always work the same. Negative reaping isnt punishment, its just the way the universe works. Its the measure of what we sowed... it doesnt judge, it only disperses the appropriate outcomes for whatever vibe we put out in that season.

      There are offline millionaires and hundred aires... whichever one you sow to become is what you receive.

      The good news is that everyday is the beginning of a new season.
      Well said.

      Using email blasts is not the most profitable way to work offline. You'd be better off just dialing for dollars or even getting in the car and going door to door.
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      • Profile picture of the author qwqw
        Originally Posted by Centurian View Post

        Well said.

        Using email blasts is not the most profitable way to work offline. You'd be better off just dialing for dollars or even getting in the car and going door to door.
        It makes me think once again that going so hard is not a sign of a "hot" market.
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        • Profile picture of the author iInvent
          Originally Posted by qwqw View Post

          It makes me think once again that going so hard is not a sign of a "hot" market.
          Hard is relative...there is so MANY factors to consider... The vehicle, the salesman, the techniques, the products, the price, etc... Why does one business flourish while another perishes...in the same line of business, same model...

          And also, how many times did Einstein fail again...or even Henry Ford? It was hard for them too... Just saying
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          "Before you try to satisfy the client, understand and satisfy the person."

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          • Profile picture of the author qwqw
            Originally Posted by iInvent View Post

            Hard is relative...there is so MANY factors to consider... The vehicle, the salesman, the techniques, the products, the price, etc... Why does one business flourish while another perishes...in the same line of business, same model...

            And also, how many times did Einstein fail again...or even Henry Ford? It was hard for them too... Just saying
            True. but once again, the question "Hot or not too hot" still remains.
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            • Profile picture of the author Doug Slaton
              @qwqw

              Guess I've been lucky and also have more to sell than some. My first jobs were computer repair jobs and came within 2 or 3 visits to weekly meetings. With so many slow & virus-ed machines it's been easy for me to sell computer repair rather than SEO or Web Design. Once I get my foot in the door with computer tech stuff then the better paying and more residual money has a chance to head my way.

              You are too right about the time line taking time for sure with 'networking' as a marketing strategy. For me though the exciting part is every web design/hosting customer I get typically stays with me (especially since they know me) so that monthly hosting income continues to build, albeit slowly I don't mind the snails pace so much as long as I'm able to keep heading in a plus direction.

              A big benefit with this strategy is the trust and strong bond I develop with my clients. Offering them something beyond computer repair isn't a hard sell or cold call, it's just a friend offering to help them extend their reach on the internet to help them with their business.

              I feel like I'm succeeding in my own way but with all the offline enthusiasm that's about I'm still not seeing a Goldrush but not a mirage either.
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              • Profile picture of the author qwqw
                Originally Posted by Doug Slaton View Post

                @qwqw

                Guess I've been lucky and also have more to sell than some. My first jobs were computer repair jobs and came within 2 or 3 visits to weekly meetings. With so many slow & virus-ed machines it's been easy for me to sell computer repair rather than SEO or Web Design. Once I get my foot in the door with computer tech stuff then the better paying and more residual money has a chance to head my way.

                You are too right about the time line taking time for sure with 'networking' as a marketing strategy. For me though the exciting part is every web design/hosting customer I get typically stays with me (especially since they know me) so that monthly hosting income continues to build, albeit slowly I don't mind the snails pace so much as long as I'm able to keep heading in a plus direction.

                A big benefit with this strategy is the trust and strong bond I develop with my clients. Offering them something beyond computer repair isn't a hard sell or cold call, it's just a friend offering to help them extend their reach on the internet to help them with their business.

                I feel like I'm succeeding in my own way but with all the offline enthusiasm that's about I'm still not seeing a Goldrush but not a mirage either.
                Basically, you confirm my statement that there is a market for offliners but you have to work it one step at a time.

                So far nobody could prove that this market is really-really hot.
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                • Profile picture of the author iInvent
                  Originally Posted by qwqw View Post

                  Basically, you confirm my statement that there is a market for offliners but you have to work it one step at a time.

                  So far nobody could prove that this market is really-really hot.
                  Hmm ok, how would qualify a business for it to be really-really hot??

                  I don't understand what you mean by "work it one step at a time"...all types of businesses have to work it...step by step... Am I missing something? :confused:
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                  Chantal
                  "Before you try to satisfy the client, understand and satisfy the person."

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                  • Profile picture of the author qwqw
                    Originally Posted by iInvent View Post

                    Hmm ok, how would qualify a business for it to be really-really hot??
                    By HOT I mean it's when you do not have to convince biz owners that they need your service because majority of them understand and want this service.

                    In real life it appears that majority of them do not understand the Internet and why they need your service. That is not a hot market at all.
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                    • Profile picture of the author gandrews711
                      Originally Posted by qwqw View Post

                      By HOT I mean it's when you do not have to convince biz owners that they need your service because majority of them understand and want this service.

                      In real life it appears that majority of them do not understand the Internet and why they need your service. That is not a hot market at all.
                      qwqw:

                      In my opinion, the market you want to find does NOT exist. If "the majority of them understand or want this service," you'd have the problem of your competition eating you alive, beating down your prices, and stealing your business.

                      The phone company meets your criterion, but I doubt any of us want to start a telecommunications firm. If what you want is to sell a ubiquitous service or a commodity, many opportunities exist. However, few of them are highly entrepreneurial. What sort of business do you really want?

                      For a market to be "hot," it seems to me the true value lies in how easy it is to educate prospects and how quickly you can fulfill their expectations. If they already wanted your service, wouldn't they unilaterally investigate and take action? If they are good businesspeople, certainly they would.

                      The opportunity is in making a reasonable case to a prospect that taking action is an urgent necessity, and that you have a high-quality, low-risk solution.

                      For example, it's easy to bring up countless Web sites for local businesses that are not mobile-optimized. If you show the business owner or manager the problem in person, using your smartphone, the pain is obvious. "OMG, look at your site! Google *hates* sites like this. This is costing you money every day!"

                      If you can then show an affordable and effective solution, you can close that sale as often as not--or at least often enough to make it a viable business. That's my definition of a "hot" market. And it's no mirage.

                      However, this does involve more than sending spam email or dialing for dollars. Of course, once you have the order, you also must execute as promised. Luckily, you'll find more than a few mobile site solutions here as WSOs that will help you get that done.

                      Stand up, walk away from the sofa, and look outside. If you don't perceive opportunity, just squint. It's there, I promise. . .



                      --George
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                      • Profile picture of the author qwqw
                        Originally Posted by gandrews711 View Post

                        qwqw:

                        Stand up, walk away from the sofa, and look outside. If you don't perceive opportunity, just squint. It's there, I promise. . .



                        --George
                        What is your guarantee policy?
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                        • Profile picture of the author gandrews711
                          Originally Posted by qwqw View Post

                          What is your guarantee policy?
                          The only guarantee is Ben Franklin's, "Nothing ventured; nothing gained."

                          I fail to see the purpose of this thread. Do you wish to challenge the intent of a WSO? Do you feel it incumbent upon you to introduce a "healthy" skepticism into the forum? Perhaps you see all the well-intentioned folks here as simply naive and unrealistic? (Note, this is not to say that all the people here are "well-intentioned.")

                          Sturgeon's Law applies: "90% of everything is crap." The rest, however, is useful, and some of it is pure gold. You need to decide which for yourself.

                          The point of my statement was not, however, to offer you any guarantee. I have no knowledge of your skills, education, or motivation. It was merely to suggest to you that negativity WILL guarantee failure.

                          Is the mobile market "hot?" Certainly. You have but to stand on any busy street corner and watch the many in the throng with their noses in their mobile phones, some of them so heedless of anything else that they wander into traffic. I can attest that the world is now much different from what it was ten years ago, twenty years ago, and thirty years ago.

                          Can I guarantee your success in this, or any, market? Nope. I don't know a thing about you: male or female, old or young, savvy or--hmm--shall we say "challenged." I do feel, however, that you are expending energy needlessly baiting this community and attempting to prove a negative.

                          If a market is extolled as "hot" by others, and you fail to perceive it so, just move on and find something else that kindles your enthusiasm. Perhaps you are fully correct that the Emperor Has No Clothes. Don't waste your time on thoughts of fatuous superiority, "zig" while others "zag." Maybe you see personalized milk crates or mattress advertising as the next big thing: go for it!

                          The measure of a person's success in life is certainly to roll with the punches and hang in there, not to avoid ever entering the ring. There's the bell. Defend yourself at all times and make it a good, clean fight.

                          --George
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    • Profile picture of the author sandalwood
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      "Success PERIOD in ANY undertaking", just a mirage, or available for everyone?

      In offline, the playing field is equal.... There is equal opportunity. Just make the calls instead of asking whether or not it can be done. It CAN be and "is" everyday.

      We all reap whatever we sow, good or bad, negative or positive,the laws are perfect and always work the same. Negative reaping isnt punishment, its just the way the universe works. Its the measure of what we sowed... it doesnt judge, it only disperses the appropriate outcomes for whatever vibe we put out in that season.

      There are offline millionaires and hundred aires... whichever one you sow to become is what you receive.

      The good news is that everyday is the beginning of a new season.
      I bolded (I hope) what I think is absolutely spot on in John's post. MAKE THE CALLS cuz I can guarantee you someone else is...
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      • Profile picture of the author qwqw
        Originally Posted by sandalwood View Post

        I bolded (I hope) what I think is absolutely spot on in John's post. MAKE THE CALLS cuz I can guarantee you someone else is...
        I understand that before you become a local business consultant you have to become a professional telemarketer first. Correct?
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        • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
          Originally Posted by qwqw View Post

          I understand that before you become a local business consultant you have to become a professional telemarketer first. Correct?
          In a word... no.

          Not in the least... despite what a lot of the popular discussion is here on this forum.
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          • Profile picture of the author qwqw
            Originally Posted by MichaelHiles View Post

            In a word... no.

            Not in the least... despite what a lot of the popular discussion is here on this forum.
            Cold calling ( aka telemarketing) appears to be the most successful technique to get the clients.

            What are the others successful then?
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            • Profile picture of the author PvPGuy
              Originally Posted by qwqw

              ...Seeing all this craze in this offline and WSO section about offliners selling the "how to make a killing with local businesses" makes me wonder whether this opportunity is a real gold or it's just selling hype to make it look like one.
              You are in a marketing forum where marketers sell stuff, and you're complaining about hype? :rolleyes:


              Originally Posted by qwqw

              In my personal experience I did not find that a few biz owners I talked to are crazy about that "online thing".

              Many do not even understand why they need google, adwords, mobile, etc, if the business is going well without this stuff.
              This would be the oft-mentioned "opportunity" that you believe is so terribly over-hyped.

              Originally Posted by qwqw

              We all know that in order to make money you have to sell what people want to buy. Right?

              So is it a really that thing people (biz owners) want to buy badly?
              Let's ask your question in a less self-serving way:
              Do business owners want more money?
              Do business owners want more customers?
              Do business owners want more brand recognition?
              Do business owners want to build a rabid community of loyal, proselytizing fans who continually patronize, refer, and defend their business?

              The unanimous answer is yes. Without getting too long-winded, all services from offline consulting result in a ROI that is usually significantly greater than any other form of advertising. Increasing profits while potentially reducing marketing expenses is every local business owners fantasy.

              And because providing these results is so incredibly easy for YOU the consultant, this "offline goldmine" should be YOUR fantasy - if you are inclined to offline! Maybe you're not...nothing wrong with that, just leave your local goldmine to someone else.


              Originally Posted by qwqw

              --- STORY END ----

              the point of the story is that offline gold is not that shiny as many say.
              The story merely indicates that this guy was digging in the wrong places and/or with the wrong tools.

              Originally Posted by qwqw

              I understand that before you become a local business consultant you have to become a professional telemarketer first. Correct?
              If you want to pan for gold, you have to be willing to bend your back and get your hands wet. If you think its too much work for you, then you're right
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              • Profile picture of the author qwqw
                Originally Posted by PvPGuy View Post

                You are in a marketing forum where marketers sell stuff, and you're complaining about hype? :rolleyes:
                Hmm, I'm not sure if I buy this theory. "Selling hype" has a dangerous relevance to another meaning which can be interpreted as scam.
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  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    In general, it's a consultative sale (aka requires education).

    This means a longer sales cycle, so you'd better be prepared to actually charge for the effort after the fact. If you have to spend 2 months educating a prospect for a $600 website, you're losing money.
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    • Profile picture of the author Lee M
      Originally Posted by MichaelHiles View Post

      In general, it's a consultative sale (aka requires education).

      This means a longer sales cycle, so you'd better be prepared to actually charge for the effort after the fact. If you have to spend 2 months educating a prospect for a $600 website, you're losing money.
      So true!! The sales cycle for business to business is much longer. Even at the Mom & Pop business level. A business has many things to consider and there are multiple phases of selling.
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      • Profile picture of the author qwqw
        Originally Posted by Lee M View Post

        So true!! The sales cycle for business to business is much longer. Even at the Mom & Pop business level. A business has many things to consider and there are multiple phases of selling.

        Basically I understand you have to educate biz owners before you can sell to them?

        If so it goes against numerous WSo's about how "easy" it is to make money in offline.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    True dat.

    Edumacation?

    Darn! I always get surpassed by the edumacated people!


    Even more Arkansas style = "edgumikated".

    "Edjookaydid"?

    I am sofa king, we tall did?
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    • Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      True dat.

      Edumacation?

      Darn! I always get surpassed by the edumacated people!


      Even more Arkansas style = "edgumikated".

      "Edjookaydid"?

      I am sofa king, we tall did?
      LMAO!

      You know, John, I'm only about 1.5 hours west of you, in the hills of Okie. I know these people!!!
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  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    Boys, I live in Indiana, where most of the settlers were people who were so dumb their Kentucky kinfolk kicked them to the curb.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by MichaelHiles View Post

      Boys, I live in Indiana, where most of the settlers were people who were so dumb their Kentucky kinfolk kicked them to the curb.
      I was actually born South Bend Indiana Micheal.... Gosh why would anyone want to live on that God forsaken ball of ICE!!!!

      Thats how it feels in the Looooooooooong winter, but summer is really cool there. One of my fave towns in the world is Louisville BTW. I love that place. Really nice classy southern vibe.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ikon
    i did over 300 targetted emails and used readnotify

    its realistically the only way to do email marketing so you know whats happening with your emails..

    The reality was from my 300 emails though... most ended up being read on a iphone or similar device taking away the chance of it being reopened or action being taken on it.

    a high % where simply not read

    I ended up with 3 clients who never closed the deal, but 1 is still on the books..... eventually they may pay..

    I think of cold email marketing as similar to ppc you wanna fire it out in bulk and test test test. Then eventually youll get ROI on your time as opposed to money

    Its all about the right people the right time the right medium

    Because I thought I'd chime in here, if you look at the offline forum, I recently wrote a post about my first sale in offline marketing. To give you an idea of what it took to land my first sale, roughly :

    - Between 30-40 cold calls
    - Interest from about 10% of those
    - Meetings with 2 out of 40
    - Landed 1 out of 2 meetings so far.

    Not bad statistics in my opinion, only 40 calls per client means at least a client per week easily, with only 7 or 8 calls per day if you were lazy.
    I think you need to re evaluate this 40 cold calls at a minimum of 10 minutes each is 8 hours then you physically when and meet with 2 companys and ultimately you landed 1 client.

    Your costs are 15 hours personal time and probably $20 in fuel/calls/other efforts

    Then you got back and forward emailing...

    Already that 1 client would owe me nealy $400 on a cheap hourly rate... if you then outsource the job itself youll probably make a few $100 out of that client..

    yes you could outsource but we all know your conversions are going plumpet if you get someone to call for you, they just dont know what you know what you want to say.
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  • Profile picture of the author emrom
    A lot more small guys are getting their local market. Websites, SEO mobile websites..etc. It is working.
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    • Profile picture of the author qwqw
      Originally Posted by emrom View Post

      A lot more small guys are getting their local market. Websites, SEO mobile websites..etc. It is working.
      Nobody is saying it is not working. There is a market for this. The point of this discussion is clarify whether the real offline marketing demand is the same as what many IM world insiders say.

      FOr example,Iphone is a true hot market. You post an ad for Iphone or whatever is related to it especially if you offer a good deal and you may consider it sold.


      On the other hand, You post and ad for offline marketing (which is supposedly hot too according to gazillion WSOs) and you may wait for weeks if any local business ever responds.

      So hot or not hot that is the question.
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  • Profile picture of the author ChristianBerg
    There is a reason why some people are successful ONLINE and an other bunch is successful OFFLINE.
    Both worlds do not mix well.

    A good friend of mine started selling websites to Local Businesses like Lawyers, indipendent junk food shops back in 2006! but failed as he didnt get any sales at all. And he was (and is) a top noch website designer. But then he changed tactics. He partnered up with an oldschool offline salesman that was in the insurance business and they agreed to split profits 50:50.

    This is when things have changed for him. The salesman got so much PAYING clients the poor guy couldn't keep up with the orders and had to work nightshifts. I guess the served at least 2000+ clients up to today, and their rate was 800$ thats 400$ each. Thats some serious money.
    Back then there wasn't Wordpress around with that many Themes, but I believe it is still possible to succeed.

    My advice:

    1.Partner Up

    or if you dont want to

    1. Look for Businesses with a crappy 1990 Webpage and no facebook account

    2. Call them in order to get a real life meeting (or write a letter ->takes more time & money thats why I like the old telephone much more)

    3. YOU NEED (AND THIS IS ESSENTIAL) A PERSONALIZED OFFER!
    -> Show the clients the great Webpages that his comeptition is using
    -> Show the client a PREVIEW: A personalized webpage with his Logo! (better show him 5 Versions)
    Show him what he will get for his hard earned bucks


    It doesnt take much time to create these "preview" themes, there a plenty of Wordpress themes around. Further you only have to change the Logo of the Theme and you are ready to show it another prospect.

    If you want OFFLINERS you have to go out in the bright sun or partner up with a sales professional.

    How to partner up?

    Well thats easy as pie. Simple pretend to be someone interessed in buying some insurence on craigslist and meet up with the salesforce. In the conversation you could offer them your Business proposition and evaluate the salesman.

    But why the salesman (you also can take some MLM Guy)?

    1.They are desperate for leads.

    2.In order to survive in this industry they need to speak with atleast 3 clients a day. Most of them are also talking to corporate clients. So they already have an established connection with YOUR prospect.


    All the Best

    Christian
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    • Profile picture of the author qwqw
      Thanks Christian

      That is another way of approaching businesses.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
    Without seeing the content of what the OP sent, it's difficult to say why it failed.

    6,000 emails would seem to be enough to get something going. Not sure why you were able to talk to people for an hour and they didn't buy anything, too. How do you qualify your prospects? Did you end up giving them a free education about what you do and how you do it?

    For the contractor offer, I've worked as one and don't know how people would react to the idea of hiring a contractor over the web. Not that you're offering precisely that, but people could view it that way--especially if they didn't follow the sequence the whole way though. There have been so many contractor horror stories. I might offer that as basic lead generation to initiate a phone conversation.
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  • Profile picture of the author Hugh
    When trying to sell to local biz guys, don't lose sight of the fact that,
    if he is a good biz man/woman, it's a BUSINESS DECISION. He doesn't
    care about the bells and whistles. He is not interested in being "The
    First On The Block.... He is looking at ROI. Will it help his business.
    And can you supply enough FACTS for him to make a business decision.

    Hugh
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    "Some see private enterprise as a predatory target to be shot, others as a cow to be milked, but few are those who see it as a sturdy horse pulling the wagon." -- Winston Churchill

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    • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
      Originally Posted by Hugh View Post

      When trying to sell to local biz guys, don't lose sight of the fact that,
      if he is a good biz man/woman, it's a BUSINESS DECISION. He doesn't
      care about the bells and whistles. He is not interested in being "The
      First On The Block.... He is looking at ROI. Will it help his business.
      And can you supply enough FACTS for him to make a business decision.

      Hugh
      Actually, some people DO care about being the first on the block. In the DISC profile, those are the I's...which are very common in society (most people are S's or I's). The high I's want to be first just to be first.

      A high D might be interested in being first on the block as well, if you can show them why.

      Facts, again, have relative importance based on the individual. High I's don't care much about facts. And we're talking about 20-odd % of the population. D's will get bored with intense, monotonous factoids being thrown at them.

      Don't make the error of assuming that everyone is like YOU. It's an easy mistake to make. I'll give you an example:

      I was invited in by the people who have hired me for a product manager role starting April 2. It's a $15 Million a year company right now and I'll be choosing what products to offer and the message to sell them with. So I was talking with the top guy and we've met before a few times. He's always telling me how interested in process he is, but I know he's a high I.

      At one point, I ask: so after a year has gone by, how do we know whether this role has been a success or not?

      Now I'm a high C. I expect organized facts and figures, in detail. So I expect an answer like, "Divisions grown by X%...so many new products on the shelves...so many removed for poor performance..."; numbers like that.

      He says: "Well, Jason...let's say you come into my office after a year and say you want to resign. I'm gonna ask myself, 'Does this hurt the company?'"

      Now that's a high I answer!! All about people. See any facts or figures in there?!

      So we have to identify who we're talking to...otherwise, we'll sell them wrong. Their eyes will glaze over and they'll nice us out the door--and we'll wonder what the heck went wrong because they were so interested at the start.
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      • Profile picture of the author qwqw
        Originally Posted by kaniganj View Post

        Actually, some people DO care about being the first on the block. In the DISC profile, those are the I's...which are very common in society (most people are S's or I's). The high I's want to be first just to be first.
        I would agree with this one. Not everything businesses are buying is for making profits. for example The rusty truck will make as much money for the biz owners as the new one. But many still spend big buck to buy new ones. Just to look and feel on top.



        Many local businesses provides feel/look good services for people and biz owners are part of those as well.

        So look/feel good applies to biz owners as well without "how much" I get out of it mentality.
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        • Profile picture of the author LBspeaks
          Originally Posted by qwqw View Post

          I would agree with this one. Not everything businesses are buying is for making profits. for example The rusty truck will make as much money for the biz owners as the new one. But many still spend big buck to buy new ones. Just to look and feel on top.



          Many local businesses provides feel/look good services for people and biz owners are part of those as well.

          So look/feel good applies to biz owners as well without "how much" I get out of it mentality.
          The real reason why people buy new trucks is because the old truck is costing them business (by hurting their reputation) and money (in repairs, low mileage, and high maintenance costs).

          If only offline consultants knew how to position their offer as the OBVIOUS cost effective method, they would end up selling a lot more.
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  • Profile picture of the author Doug Slaton
    Offline Goldrush???

    For me yes, I think the opportunity is solid. Connecting with prospects is the challenge of course. For me simple networking is key. I go to Chamber meetings, networking meetings, open house events, etc. I collect biz cards and ask if I can send 'em an invite to my free weekly email newsletter - everyone says yes to the email.

    Now I'm in their inbox and can offer more - like a free workshop on Facebook or Craigslist or ...

    I get to know them, they get to know me, trust is built and offers (by me) are made.

    I believe I'm seen as a fellow business owner and not some salesman just trying to make a sale. I typically lead with just one product then extend into others as the relationship develops. Doing this is good & bad. Good because I only have to work with a few companies to make some decent money but bad because if 1 should quit I lose a good chunk of change.

    And finally my sales philosophy is to take the easy ones and skip the rest - I only want business owners who get 'it' (the internet that is). No arm twisting needed. I go for businesses that know they need to expand to the net. Someone else can convince the others that the internet is in their best interest. Sales is sorting and finding the easy ones makes for fast sorting.

    Each to his own though. I have colleagues that are terrific at massaging prospects and making sales and at the end of the month we're usually within 10% of each other in sales.

    So not a goldrush but also not a mirage.
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    • Profile picture of the author qwqw
      Originally Posted by Doug Slaton View Post

      Offline Goldrush???

      For me yes, I think the opportunity is solid. Connecting with prospects is the challenge of course. For me simple networking is key. I go to Chamber meetings, networking meetings, open house events, etc. I collect biz cards and ask if I can send 'em an invite to my free weekly email newsletter - everyone says yes to the email.
      I wonder how long did it take to land a first client. Networking the way you described it normally takes time before anything happens. What was your case?
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  • Profile picture of the author cypherslock
    Don't friggin do email blasts that won't work. Just talk to them. My first client was a health food store that is opening up a full service (RMT etc) 2nd location and expanding their first one. I shop there, and the gent and I talk business. He was pissed at his web guy and finally fired him and paid me $1500 to redo, host and set up the site properly. And this is recurring monthly as well. He's also been promoting me about town as well. The key is to diversify: I do SEO but I also do web design, advertising and pure phone lead generation. It's about positioning yourself right, having confidence in your skills and not treating them like just a number in your bank. Slow burn is best.
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  • Profile picture of the author LBspeaks
    I just finished cold calling 50 people today. I have 7 appointments on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday. Not bad, eh?

    If my past stats are anything to go by, I will end up closing at least 3-4 of these people for $3000 front end.
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    • Profile picture of the author qwqw
      Originally Posted by LBspeaks View Post

      I just finished cold calling 50 people today. I have 7 appointments on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday. Not bad, eh?

      If my past stats are anything to go by, I will end up closing at least 3-4 of these people for $3000 front end.

      How did they end up? Any money ( not appointments) made from those activities?
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  • Profile picture of the author cypherslock
    You're looking for the easy way it seems. Any business owner will want to have meetings with you and such. It's very rare that they're already pre-sold. But, with the right amount of research, that is quite easy. What has helped me is showing them where their competitors are, and where they are NOT. Also, you're building relationships here for the long-term. They are not just a number.
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  • Profile picture of the author cypherslock
    qwqw, GO and DO, and report back as to what works for you. All the talk in the world won't help you get clients. "Forget easiness."
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  • Profile picture of the author sloanjim
    i think the key is quality over quantity. Rather have 10+ businesses where you make $1k+ month off than go for 200 where you make $50 profit off. I.M.H.O.

    Yeah 99.99% of WSO's are hype. That's what sells.
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    • Profile picture of the author qwqw
      Originally Posted by sloanjim View Post


      Yeah 99.99% of WSO's are hype. That's what sells.
      It's right. But the hype misleading many people who still trust those WSo.
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      • Profile picture of the author StevieJK
        Originally Posted by qwqw View Post

        It's right. But the hype misleading many people who still trust those WSo.
        Too true - that's what I was saying my other thread
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  • Profile picture of the author sloanjim
    1st time i have ever heard that....


    I understand that before you become a local business consultant you have to become a professional telemarketer first. Correct?
    Maybe running afew successful online campaigns might have been better?
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