Is this forum suffering from the 'Clickbank effect'?

26 replies
Hi all,

Just wanted to share my opinion in the hope that people see sense in what I am saying and save the WF forum from what I call the 'Clickbank effect'. I hope it's not, but just in case:

What do I mean by the 'Clickbank effect'?

When you first started, I expect that a lot of people like me started with affiliate marketing and Clickbank was always pushed in training due to the high commissions. All of the training programs for aff marketing like Blogging to the Bank, AutoPilot Profits etc - all geared up to convince poor, newbies like me that the internet was easy to make money on and you could make $256,172,278 with just 1 hour per week with no experience necessary. You probably know the sort of thing I am talking about :rolleyes:

Any one of us who has been there and done that know that it is all nonsense and you cannot build a business this way and it just doesn't work like that.

The sad thing is, that WSO's seem to be heading this way with the offline systems, often using the same kind of salesy copy and attention grabbing claims like 'get clients banging down your door' and 'making clients beg for you to work with them' etc. Whilst some of these WSO's *may* be genuine - I am sure a lot of them are not and are putting the Clickbank effect into the WF forum.

Heck, there are even forum posts I have seen with people describing their methods of making offline sales that have worked for them. These threads usually have later posts from experienced marketers warning that the method will not be that easy and not to believe it will happen for you like the OP may suggest.

The fact of the matter remains, is that it does not matter what system or method you use, whether it be emailing, cold-calling, postcards, LinkedIn, walk-ins, this script or that script..... the only way to succeed is by putting in the hard work, persisting, and tweaking what doesn't work for you.

I think this kind of thinking is also at least partly to blame for a lot of people not taking any action, as looking for the magic bullet approach just causes you to drop your current method in favour of a new one that *sounds* better and claims to be easier and more effective.

Let's just make sure we continue to appreciate fellow warriors posting their methods and tips, but not to take them as a guarantee that it is the magic bullet that will instantly land you more clients than you can handle in just 1 day. Just use them but applied to common business sense - such as persistence and hard work and tweaking.

Not a rant, just something I have been observing.

Cheers,
Steve.
#clickbank #effect #forum #suffering
  • Profile picture of the author Patrick Batty
    Fair point, actually.

    Sometimes when I see someone post something that seems to indicate they are new or haven't tried something, that I have tried.. I give my opinon, but try to not burst their bubble or discourage. Because, until they try it, who knows, it just might work for them, even though it may not have worked for me.

    Also, it seems many people are always looking for the silver bullet, and continue to hope that some tip, or wso will just plugin and make them money.

    We all know that isn't the case.

    WSOs are either tools or training, and many are quite good.

    But no one makes money until they stop buying and start selling.
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    • Profile picture of the author umc
      I love coming here for the ideas, but it is hard to know who has their arm around you because they truly want to help and/or encourage, and who has their arm around you because they're reaching for your wallet with hype and salesmanship.
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  • Profile picture of the author globalpro
    Steve,

    I think you will find this problem true for any forum. The difference here is all members are moderators. If you (or I) find a claim to be over the top, or a thinly disguised sales letter for an upcoming WSO, call them on it (graciously of course).

    If it's a blatant sales pitch, report it.

    I know if you come here often enough, you will get a feel for who's who and whether they are here to help or not. These are the same ones that will do the above, and even though some of them may come off as a bit harsh in their assessment of what you are doing (by your post), they are trying to offer help.

    One thing's for sure, there are some very knowledgeable/helpful people here, and since I made the jump to offline, I have gotten some tremendous 'training' here (and mobile forum).

    I guess like anything, it's what you make of it.

    Thanks,

    John
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  • Profile picture of the author ryanmckinney
    Originally Posted by StevieJK View Post

    The sad thing is, that WSO's seem to be heading this way with the offline systems, often using the same kind of salesy copy and attention grabbing claims like 'get clients banging down your door' and 'making clients beg for you to work with them' etc.

    *gasp*

    You mean.. marketers .. are .. marketing... utilizing .. sales copy..directed... at a target audience?? Say it ain't so?

    NO WAY! IT's A TRAVESTY!!

    I better dull down my direct mail campaigns, after all, I spent countless hours studying copy, so I can market to businesses.. who .. I want to call me and ask about my services..

    Sure, bold claims are made, sure some WSOs are crap...

    Offliners make bold claims, and sure some are crap....

    In the last 4 months I have went from 0 sales experience and no idea how to run an offline business, to numerous off-line clients , and building an actual "marketing" company.

    I didn't just wake up and know how to do that one day, it was a couple of those pesky WSOs that taught me! Damn those things.

    Sure, some of them are crap, but people buy them, people usually have the option to get a refund as well. It's marketers marketing to marketers, it works, they make money. Hate the game, not the playa' fool!

    Ryan
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  • Profile picture of the author dreagle
    I could name a dozen or more Warrior Forum Gurus that are killing it with the

    Click Bank methods. Sad but true... You buy a WSO for say $7.00 and then the first up-sell is: i.e.

    $27.00 The second is $ 37.00 then do not forget about the down sells etc...Then your

    on their list and you get spammed relentlessly.... Too bad.

    Thanks: DreamEagle
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  • Profile picture of the author StevieJK
    Thanks everyone who has replied.

    @ Ryan:
    I understand what you are saying and I am not knocking WSO's in general at all, I have purchased various useful ones myself (such as jason kanigan's - awesome!).

    I am merely referencing the ones that are hyped up to convince newbies that they can get masses of clients begging to work with them in no time at all, it is just misleading, that is all.

    P.S. I am not a fool either.
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    • Profile picture of the author ryanmckinney
      Originally Posted by StevieJK View Post

      Thanks everyone who has replied.

      @ Ryan:
      I understand what you are saying and I am not knocking WSO's in general at all, I have purchased various useful ones myself (such as jason kanigan's - awesome!).

      I am merely referencing the ones that are hyped up to convince newbies that they can get masses of clients begging to work with them in no time at all, it is just misleading, that is all.

      P.S. I am not a fool either.

      Jason's does rock.

      Sure there are "misleading" ones, it's the nature of the beast!

      In 2006, I was caught up in all the hype as a "noob". I spent hundreds, thousands of dollars on CB products through that first year.

      None of em' worked, but at the same time, I never really worked anything, I just jumped from one to another.

      Bob Ross's WSO does rock, and has added another revenue stream and "solution" my company can provide! Actually in the middle of working out a deal, based on his WSO alone.

      Wasn't calling you a fool, in case you were wondering, I was being somewhat facetious

      Ryan
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  • Profile picture of the author jonnnyd23
    Any real good WSO offered here will have members vouching for them on various posts around the forum. Take any WSO from "Bob Ross" for instance, I have seen several members vouching for his WSO's in numerous threads. Sure, he has great reviews on his WSO's like most do, but the difference is that members still vouch for him and refer other members to him when they need advice.

    Would you honestly refer a WSO to a warrior if it was crap and you don't make any money from it (through the WSO or as an affiliate)?

    It's quite a shame because there are so many people that buy the overly saturated "Make $5000 a day in your pajamas while sitting on the beach drinking a margarita". People try it out and see that they have to keep pumping money in to it and get turned off by it and any others making that claim. There are some great opps out there but it does take work, sweat, blood and tears to get where you want to be.
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  • Profile picture of the author MonteMichaels
    Originally Posted by jonnnyd23


    It's quite a shame because there are so many people that buy the overly saturated "Make $5000 a day in your pajamas while sitting on the beach drinking a margarita". People try it out and see that they have to keep pumping money in to it and get turned off by it and any others making that claim. There are some great opps out there but it does take work, sweat, blood and tears to get where you want to be.
    That's more of a problem with the target audience than the WSO sellers themselves. I have bought a few really great WSOs that sold very few but also had little hype in their sales letter.

    Its unfortunate, but in the market that they are writing for people are looking for the quick, easy, do no work for it and be rich fix. That won't change.

    It's not just our market either. Look at weight loss and the claims made there as well. I don't have big python arms and a six pack despite all of the gym equipment I bought. They had huge claims as well, and not one of those claims had anything to do with being a clothes hanger.


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    • Profile picture of the author StevieJK
      Originally Posted by MonteMichaels View Post

      That's more of a problem with the target audience than the WSO sellers themselves. I have bought a few really great WSOs that sold very few but also had little hype in their sales letter.

      Its unfortunate, but in the market that they are writing for people are looking for the quick, easy, do no work for it and be rich fix. That won't change.
      Yes, I think that is the truth of it, right there. Such a shame really, as there is sooo much REAL information here at WF to build offline businesses, just a shame it has to be clouded by all the useless stuff.
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  • Profile picture of the author MonteMichaels
    Originally Posted by StevieJK

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MonteMichaels

    That's more of a problem with the target audience than the WSO sellers themselves. I have bought a few really great WSOs that sold very few but also had little hype in their sales letter.

    Its unfortunate, but in the market that they are writing for people are looking for the quick, easy, do no work for it and be rich fix. That won't change.

    Yes, I think that is the truth of it, right there. Such a shame really, as there is sooo much REAL information here at WF to build offline businesses, just a shame it has to be clouded by all the useless stuff.
    Just like anything else you have to sift through the BS to get to the good stuff.

    I remember during my I insurance days there were many companies that were jumping on the annuity bandwagon with a hybrid service that combined the best of a variable annuity with the security of a fixed annuity. It was heavily hyped and made agents and companies a lot of money. In the end it was really worse than the two previously mentioned annuities. Hype sells.

    Just like in the weight loss category example I used in an earlier post. I don't really like to work out, so if I could work out for only five minutes a day, three days a week, that would be great. I have been sold a few times.

    On the other hand I have a friend that does this morning boot camp thing. He gets up every morning at 5 to have someone yell at him and push him hard for an hour six days a week. He has been doing that for a few months now and looks great. I just am not motivated enough to get up that early to work out. Or really at all. Too much work.

    Its the same when it comes to making money.


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  • Profile picture of the author bob ross
    Ryan, thanks for the compliment.

    I get PMs and emails all the time with people who want to release a WSO and need help and sometimes they have good information but their sales page really sucks and I know it won't be compelling enough for people to buy.

    Who the heck wants to read anything that isn't hypey. So long as it delivers good information it should be hypey as hell in my opinion.
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    • Profile picture of the author ryanmckinney
      Originally Posted by bob ross View Post

      Ryan, thanks for the compliment.

      I get PMs and emails all the time with people who want to release a WSO and need help and sometimes they have good information but their sales page really sucks and I know it won't be compelling enough for people to buy.

      Who the heck wants to read anything that isn't hypey. So long as it delivers good information it should be hypey as hell in my opinion.

      Yeah, your WSO opened my eyes up to providing the service, never looked at it that way , only for my own b2b sales. I am trying to build a business that is a "one stop shop", and this added a great missile in my arsenal ,for sure.

      Not long after going through your WSO , I was contacted by a medical spa woman, she needs a lot of help, long story short, over the last year she has spent $250,000K or so on advertising (t.v. , trade shows , radio,).. which resulted in about $275K .. so 25K ROI. *EEK*

      The most amount of money she made was from just pure drive bys and walk ins.

      Her "marketing" guy told her: SEO won't work and is a waste of time, Direct mail campaigns don't work and Facebook/social media management is "pointless". Sigh.

      She is vary cautious about moving forward because: A. she spent a lot with little ROI and B. She still thinks this guy knows what he is talking about ..

      So I did pitch her a direct mail campaign, and other things, but I pushed it hard. It was like she was meant to call, since I had just learned a new trade and how to outsource it 100% :-)

      Back to the copy issue:

      We want to be sold! We need the copy to get us hyped to make that decision.

      Plus, you are trying to add money into your account by selling a WSO, you want the highest conversion rate possible, duuuhh!

      Ryan
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      • Profile picture of the author MonteMichaels
        Originally Posted by ryanmckinney View Post

        Back to the copy issue:

        We want to be sold! We need the copy to get us hyped to make that decision.

        Plus, you are trying to add money into your account by selling a WSO, you want the highest conversion rate possible, duuuhh!

        Ryan
        How often have you bought a car that you were not exited about? We have three cars in our driveway, and even when we bought the mini van we were excited to have extra space for trips, a DVD player to get kids to be quiet, and a better safety rating than other cars. Sure my wife and I said that we would never own a mini van, but we still had the emotions triggered when we bought it.
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        • Profile picture of the author ryanmckinney
          Originally Posted by MonteMichaels View Post

          How often have you bought a car that you were not exited about? We have three cars in our driveway, and even when we bought the mini van we were excited to have extra space for trips, a DVD player to get kids to be quiet, and a better safety rating than other cars. Sure my wife and I said that we would never own a mini van, but we still had the emotions triggered when we bought it.
          Exactly.

          Mini-Vans are cool these days, "cross-over's" = the new mini-van.

          "I got a new cross-over" <-- see I am still cool and excited.

          Ryan
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          • Profile picture of the author MonteMichaels
            Originally Posted by ryanmckinney View Post

            Exactly.

            Mini-Vans are cool these days, "cross-over's" = the new mini-van.

            "I got a new cross-over" <-- see I am still cool and excited.

            Ryan
            I wanted a cross over, but the mini van was about half the price because they are not that popular anymore. So the wife said no. Still got sold on what the vehicle had, not just because it was a mini van.
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            • Profile picture of the author ryanmckinney
              Originally Posted by MonteMichaels View Post

              I wanted a cross over, but the mini van was about half the price because they are not that popular anymore. So the wife said no. Still got sold on what the vehicle had, not just because it was a mini van.

              That $2,000 TV in the mini van is really worth it though, even if you could get the same thing aftermarket for more than half the price. Nothing like a couple extra grand to finance (assuming you didn't pay cash )

              I am right there with you.

              Nice, and quiet trips, most of the time.

              Ryan
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              • Profile picture of the author MonteMichaels
                Originally Posted by ryanmckinney View Post

                That $2,000 TV in the mini van is really worth it though, even if you could get the same thing aftermarket for more than half the price. Nothing like a couple extra grand to finance (assuming you didn't pay cash )

                I am right there with you.

                Nice, and quiet trips, most of the time.

                Ryan
                Yeah it is.

                That's exactly how it was sold to me. We had a grand prix at the time and stuffed all three kids in the back. ANY trip was consumed by my wife or me yelling at one of the kids to leave the others alone.

                The salesman brought out a dvd of the lion king on the test drive. We drove for 15 minutes without one peep. It was a real tough decision.
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  • Profile picture of the author MonteMichaels
    Originally Posted by bob ross

    Ryan, thanks for the compliment.

    I get PMs and emails all the time with people who want to release a WSO and need help and sometimes they have good information but their sales page really sucks and I know it won't be compelling enough for people to buy.

    Who the heck wants to read anything that isn't hypey. So long as it delivers good information it should be hypey as hell in my opinion.
    Exactly. Its all part of marketing, which is something that newbie warriors need to understand. Yep it sucks buying a product that doesn't work like it said it would, but once again, its every where. The WF is no exception.

    Hype is all over TV, magazines, radio, everywhere you look. That's a principle that needs to be taught to those that are telling businesses they are marketers.



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  • Profile picture of the author Power Solutions
    Anyone who buys a WSO is allowed to write a review in the thread and people who have limited funds need to do the due dilligence. People who are impulse buyers can't be helped, they need to change internally. The WF is treating me as an adult and letting me make my decisions instead of being the gatekeeper. Their refund policies are more than sufficient. And so are the policies of whatever gateway a person uses for payment.

    I have bought dozens of WSO and if the information presented was not up to the sales copy hype I've had no trouble getting refunds. The one person who gave me trouble got banned from Paypal after my claim and I had no qualms about doing it.

    There have been 2 instances when I gave the author too much leeway and went beyond the limit of days for refunds. I chalked those up to learning experiences.

    Thus. . ... fools and their money are soon to be parted. WF does not need to be the gatekeeper or my gaurdian. I hope it stays that way so I can decide on my own what's what and who's who.
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    • Profile picture of the author ryanmckinney
      Originally Posted by khawaja1971 View Post

      and people who have limited funds need to do the due dilligence. .

      If I had a dollar for every time I saw this comment or a variation thereof on a WSO thread .. I would have about .. 77 dollars


      "I only have $10 left in my bank account, I wasn't going to buy a WSO until I get paid in 2 weeks, but I am grabbing this one!"


      Seriously?

      Ryan
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      • Profile picture of the author MonteMichaels
        Originally Posted by ryanmckinney View Post

        If I had a dollar for every time I saw this comment or a variation thereof on a WSO thread .. I would have about .. 77 dollars


        "I only have $10 left in my bank account, I wasn't going to buy a WSO until I get paid in 2 weeks, but I am grabbing this one!"


        Seriously?

        Ryan
        Well sure there is the problem with WSO sales. It's not the seller, they are just giving the audience what they want. If those very people that dropped their last dime on a WSO bought a meal instead, then chances are that WSO sellers would have to change how they are selling.
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        • Profile picture of the author Michael Bucker
          Since you brought up training. As a trainer let me say I completely agree. I am doing a seminar in memphis in may and one of the things I will be and always talk about is seminars will NOT fix things for them. I will merely be planting a seed. The real change I can help them with comes from a lot of training over time. Work work work.

          There are methods, techniques and tools to make that work easier but the key word in the phrase is still work. There is a day of less work but it always follows the days of hard work.
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  • Profile picture of the author MonteMichaels
    Originally Posted by khawaja1971

    Anyone who buys a WSO is allowed to write a review in the thread and people who have limited funds need to do the due dilligence. People who are impulse buyers can't be helped, they need to change internally. The WF is treating me as an adult and letting me make my decisions instead of being the gatekeeper. Their refund policies are more than sufficient. And so are the policies of whatever gateway a person uses for payment.
    So what you are saying is that we should use common sense and take responsibility for our self?

    That's almost a novel idea any more.

    While I'm at it, I should also stop blaming my grocery store for making me fat because they sell Doritos, my gas station for selling candy bars, and the girl scouts for selling cookies.

    Really people need to have common sense more. Just because someone wrote an book on how to make a hundred thousand dollars a day by playing video games doesn't mean it will happen.

    If it sounds too good to be true, its probably isn't. Such an old saying, but people fall for things that are obviously false, or very stretched at best. I don't even blame the WSO owners if I buy one that's junk.



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  • Profile picture of the author Preeti
    Ryan your earlier comment reminds me of a quote by sales trainer Jeffrey Gitomer.."people don't like to be sold but they LOVE to buy!" which is really the reason why any of use purchase anything...
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    • Profile picture of the author ryanmckinney
      Originally Posted by Preeti View Post

      Ryan your earlier comment reminds me of a quote by sales trainer Jeffrey Gitomer.."people don't like to be sold but they LOVE to buy!" which is really the reason why any of use purchase anything...

      Makes sense lol, I had never heard what I said.. it just felt right as I said it.. if that makes sense..
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