Who has an 'Offline Business' with low Working Hours?

27 replies
Here's the problem I'm facing:

I have an established offline internet marketing business, but the hours to work it is almost 10-12hours a day. Where as other friends with info-businesses are working much less! From answering emails, to interacting with outsourcers, to communicating with clients, it takes a lot of time!

I'm looking for a company business model to benchmark. So that I can work LESS and live MORE! > Does anyone have input on companies that I can model, or even preferably mentorship opportunities.

Currently our main services are:
-SEO
-PPC
-WebDesign
-Video Marketing

I look forward to everyones input, as I'm sure lots of others are working long hours!

/M
#business #hours #low #offline #working
  • What's your typical day look like? With that many hours and outsources, you should have a good 6 figure business unless you're doing something terribly wrong.
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  • Profile picture of the author Aaron Doud
    Stop worrying about the money and hire people. Once you hire people you will make less but work less. The key is to leverage more people working for you so in time you make more not working than you did working.
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    • Originally Posted by Aaron Doud View Post

      Stop worrying about the money and hire people. Once you hire people you will make less but work less. The key is to leverage more people working for you so in time you make more not working than you did working.
      That's what I was getting at. Find one really reliable employee that can manage your other outsourced employees. When you get to that point, your involvement is minimal.
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      • Profile picture of the author mdiddy1
        Yah good point guys, I've recently brought on a sales guy, and my next move is to hire a CLIENT/OPERATIONS MGR.

        I'm thinking about hiring an experienced manager from a Phillipino company, that would work during their night time; answering calls, answering emails, communicating reports, etc.

        I was told a fulltime person like this would cost about $1000/mth for someone good.

        Do you guys have any feedback or thoughts on that?

        I appreciate your time in helping on this.
        /M
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        • Profile picture of the author rushindo
          Originally Posted by mdiddy1 View Post

          Yah good point guys, I've recently brought on a sales guy, and my next move is to hire a CLIENT/OPERATIONS MGR.

          I'm thinking about hiring an experienced manager from a Phillipino company, that would work during their night time; answering calls, answering emails, communicating reports, etc.

          I was told a fulltime person like this would cost about $1000/mth for someone good.

          Do you guys have any feedback or thoughts on that?

          I appreciate your time in helping on this.
          /M
          Where are you located? If you are not located in the Philippines, I would not hire someone there or anywhere else outside of your local area to be your top level manager. You want them local to you if they are going to run your business for you.

          I agree with everyone else. Either hire someone to run everything for you so you can grow without spending more time, or focus on residual income. Or both.

          One more thing you can do is charge more money. You can work with less clients and make just as much money or more. You'll have less clients and more free time.

          Brandon
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          • Profile picture of the author mdiddy1
            Originally Posted by rushindo View Post

            Where are you located? If you are not located in the Philippines, I would not hire someone there or anywhere else outside of your local area to be your top level manager. You want them local to you if they are going to run your business for you.

            I agree with everyone else. Either hire someone to run everything for you so you can grow without spending more time, or focus on residual income. Or both.

            One more thing you can do is charge more money. You can work with less clients and make just as much money or more. You'll have less clients and more free time.

            Brandon
            I'm located in Vancouver, BC, but my goal is to further expand beyond the city. Therefore I'm not sure the value that someone locally would bring.

            And yes, I think that sums it up: charge more, have more recurring, hire a mgr to handle everything, so I can work on strategy
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  • Profile picture of the author Hugh
    The secret is residual income. You don't need that many clients
    if each one is sending you $89 a month automatically.

    Hugh
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    "Never make someone a priority in your life who makes you an option in theirs." Anon.
    "Some see private enterprise as a predatory target to be shot, others as a cow to be milked, but few are those who see it as a sturdy horse pulling the wagon." -- Winston Churchill

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    • Profile picture of the author mdiddy1
      Originally Posted by Hugh View Post

      The secret is residual income. You don't need that many clients
      if each one is sending you $89 a month automatically.

      Hugh
      What services can be provided for about $89/mth? Do you have these fully automated, with reporting, outsourcing, etc?
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  • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
    Think about this:

    Are you working IN your business, or are you working ON your business?

    You cannot do both.


    Most successful businesses have one individual who takes care of day-to-day operations (works IN the business), and another who goes out and grows the business (works ON the business).

    The ones in trouble typically have nobody working ON the business.They're frozen working IN the business. They grow only as much as a full pool of current clients and customers can permit--there are only 24 hours in the day, etc.

    If you want to grow, you have to give up working IN your business.

    This is the problem a lot of startups have. Say there are two people who are good at baking, say, cupcakes. They want to go into business for themselves because they make great-tasting cupcakes...and they expect the millions will pour in.

    And they discover all they've accomplished is buying themselves a full time job making cupcakes.

    If they want to grow, they have to give up being in the business and making cupcakes every day. They have to start concentrating on strategy, joint ventures, branding, new recipes, the secret 11 herbs and spices, and whatever else will grow their business.
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    • Profile picture of the author mdiddy1
      Originally Posted by kaniganj View Post

      Think about this:

      Are you working IN your business, or are you working ON your business?

      You cannot do both.


      Most successful businesses have one individual who takes care of day-to-day operations (works IN the business), and another who goes out and grows the business (works ON the business).

      The ones in trouble typically have nobody working ON the business.They're frozen working IN the business. They grow only as much as a full pool of current clients and customers can permit--there are only 24 hours in the day, etc.

      If you want to grow, you have to give up working IN your business.

      This is the problem a lot of startups have. Say there are two people who are good at baking, say, cupcakes. They want to go into business for themselves because they make great-tasting cupcakes...and they expect the millions will pour in.

      And they discover all they've accomplished is buying themselves a full time job making cupcakes.

      If they want to grow, they have to give up being in the business and making cupcakes every day. They have to start concentrating on strategy, joint ventures, branding, new recipes, the secret 11 herbs and spices, and whatever else will grow their business.
      Yes ON vs IN is very key. I just find I get drowned by working IN the business answering emails and all the communication.

      It would be nice to see what and how long others spend time on things, and what aspects they focus for working ON the business.

      > Does anyone know of such a framework that exists, that we can model from?
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  • Profile picture of the author Aaron Doud
    Yeah I am not big on outsourcing to that extreme. Pay more and hire local.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mwind076
      Sent you a PM, we are in the US, a small company of just my husband and myself. I believe we can really help you with what you've outlined here (we do Appointment Setting/Consulting/Account Management. Contact email and phone numbers were sent to you.

      Hope to hear from you!
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      Cold Calling, Appointment Setting, Training, Consulting - we do it all!
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      • Profile picture of the author mdiddy1
        Originally Posted by Mwind076 View Post

        Sent you a PM, we are in the US, a small company of just my husband and myself. I believe we can really help you with what you've outlined here (we do Appointment Setting/Consulting/Account Management. Contact email and phone numbers were sent to you.

        Hope to hear from you!
        Thanks, I just sent you a PM
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        • Profile picture of the author Mwind076
          Originally Posted by mdiddy1 View Post

          Thanks, I just sent you a PM

          I didn't get a PM or email...send it again please?
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          Looking for answers on how to SUCCESSFULLY market your company?
          Cold Calling, Appointment Setting, Training, Consulting - we do it all!
          PM for more information

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  • Profile picture of the author zero030591
    Banned
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    • Profile picture of the author mdiddy1
      Originally Posted by zero030591 View Post

      what is this............
      What are you referring to?
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  • Profile picture of the author Hugh
    Mdiddy1,

    Depends on the business needs. Last week I added a mobile website (outsourced $47 1 time) monthly backlinks (outsourced $5 mo) and an original article every other month (outsourced $5 ea). $89 x 12 = 1068 - 137 = $931 profit.
    That was the upsell. I also sold him a 5 page website.

    Hugh
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    "Never make someone a priority in your life who makes you an option in theirs." Anon.
    "Some see private enterprise as a predatory target to be shot, others as a cow to be milked, but few are those who see it as a sturdy horse pulling the wagon." -- Winston Churchill

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    • Profile picture of the author mdiddy1
      Originally Posted by Hugh View Post

      Mdiddy1,

      Depends on the business needs. Last week I added a mobile website (outsourced $47 1 time) monthly backlinks (outsourced $5 mo) and an original article every other month (outsourced $5 ea). $89 x 12 = 1068 - 137 = $931 profit.
      That was the upsell. I also sold him a 5 page website.

      Hugh
      Thanks Hugh. For the mobile website, do you have a solution where you dn't pay monthly for it, or what mobile site generator do you recommend?

      For the $5/mth backlinks, is the client expecting much results on that, because it doesn't seem like that would do much for SEO.

      Thanks again,
      /M
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Give your web designer a piece of the monthly fee for customer service, and focus all of your energy on sales.

    He can probably handle the customer service better than you can anyway, and you are doing him a favor by focusing on sales and keeping money coming in for him.

    I once even had a designer say to me when I approached him with a customer's question:

    "Let me handle that stuff...you go out and make some more sales. I got this". He may even offer them solutions that create up-sells for you.

    Make your clients his too.

    Give your outsourcers a vested interest in your success and in maintaining customers...

    And focus 90% on sales.

    If you can "sell" you have the missing piece to alot of technicians puzzle.

    Basically, if you can get someone else setting appointments, you whole job is just running them a few hours per day...and when there are enough appointments to go around that (running them) becomes as easy as "going to visit sick people in a hospital" much like what we call a "candy striper" in America.

    No pressure to close, because there are a ton of prospects. Just going around visiting people really and seeing what you can do for them to make them feel better.

    Hard sales are for people who dont have enough appointments.

    In short:

    The key is outsourcing, however obvious that is, I just wrote and "epistle" here, so you can see "why" thats the key, and "why" a webmaster would want to handle your admin for you.

    They arent going to steal your customers (smart ones), because if they blow their relationship with you they will be sitting there with no business again.

    If you can sell on a consistent basis, you are the best thing that ever happened to your outsourcers and they want to support you in every way.

    Hope this helps.

    -JD

    Ps. "A man only has time for one mistress, and that has to be his farm...".

    If you are working alone, sales is your bread and butter, you dont have time to design websites if you are growing at all, and you "webmaster" can be the one you refer your customers to for technicial questions.

    Get out and make another sale. The more you make, the freer you become.

    Dont promise the moon, or you will always be chasing your own tail. Focus on low maintenance type sales like hugh mentions above, where they dont expect you to name your firstborn after them for the fee.

    Build them a 5 page website where thats all they expect is an online presence, then if you want to upsell them SEO, send them to Iamnameless and split the commission, but as for you; just go out and make another sale, and focus on what you do best.


    This problem is not uncommon,; virtually every newby that gets a few sales here comes back a month later saying "Im spending so much time on my customers fulfillment that Im not creating new ones...".

    Thats a house of cards. Get a foundation and build some relationships with outsourcers and share the success...there will be more of it if you do.

    Again, hope this helps.
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    • Profile picture of the author mdiddy1
      Great post thanks!

      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      Give your web designer a piece of the monthly fee for customer service, and focus all of your energy on sales.
      I use a dedicated outsourcing firm and they communicate only to me, and not to clients. So that's why my next move is to get a dedicated Client Relationship Manager. This should solve all service and client communications, thereby reducing my workload a lot.

      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      If you can "sell" you have the missing piece to alot of technicians puzzle.
      Totally, I am a expert sales person, and I can easily outsell/communicate most tech people. That's my strength.

      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      Basically, if you can get someone else setting appointments, you whole job is just running them a few hours per day
      Where do you recommend to find these people? I see lots of services on Elance, etc, any experience in that area?
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by mdiddy1 View Post

        Great post thanks!



        I use a dedicated outsourcing firm and they communicate only to me, and not to clients. So that's why my next move is to get a dedicated Client Relationship Manager. This should solve all service and client communications, thereby reducing my workload a lot.



        Totally, I am a expert sales person, and I can easily outsell/communicate most tech people. That's my strength.



        Where do you recommend to find these people? I see lots of services on Elance, etc, any experience in that area?

        Honestly, you get them the same way offline businesses do, by advertising in employment classified and just trying people until you get to the ones that work. Hiring is "never done", because even the best sales people burn out sometimes, so its always a revolving door. Once your business is running, one of your main routine functions will be running ads and putting on new people everyday.

        I just told someone else. Monster.com has a $99 14 day ad deal right now, that wouldnt be a bad place to start IME.

        Hope this helps.
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        • Profile picture of the author mdiddy1
          Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

          Honestly, you get them the same way offline businesses do, by advertising in employment classified and just trying people until you get to the ones that work. Hiring is "never done", because even the best sales people burn out sometimes, so its always a revolving door. Once your business is running, one of your main routine functions will be running ads and putting on new people everyday.

          I just told someone else. Monster.com has a $99 14 day ad deal right now, that wouldnt be a bad place to start IME.

          Hope this helps.
          Thanks John, good point on how hiring is 'never done'. I'm training a sales guy now. ...How many salesguys do you have running now?
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  • Profile picture of the author Adwizard
    That's it... I need a webdesigner and SEO expert to outsource work to!!! Hit me up if your looking for more work!!!
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    Is anyone capable of designing a mobile site for
    this e-commerce site for a fee:
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    • Profile picture of the author mdiddy1
      Originally Posted by Adwizard View Post

      That's it... I need a webdesigner and SEO expert to outsource work to!!! Hit me up if your looking for more work!!!
      Yes we have room for more work soon. Let me know the details, and I'll see where I can help out!

      All the best,
      Michael
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  • Profile picture of the author beeswarn
    Tim Ferris has an offline business with low working hours. At least he says he does, when he's out selling his books 12 hours a day and making videos of himself sipping tea with his legs crossed with other New Age phonies.
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    • Profile picture of the author mdiddy1
      Originally Posted by beeswarn View Post

      Tim Ferris has an offline business with low working hours. At least he says he does, when he's out selling his books 12 hours a day and making videos of himself sipping tea with his legs crossed with other New Age phonies.
      haha, nice! Hey that brings up my other question:

      Does anybody know someone doing offline local marketing, while running their business and traveling in another city??


      I'm looking to setup my business remotely so I can have location Freedom.

      I look forward to the input on this!
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    • Profile picture of the author AfteraDream
      Originally Posted by beeswarn View Post

      Tim Ferris has an offline business with low working hours. At least he says he does, when he's out selling his books 12 hours a day and making videos of himself sipping tea with his legs crossed with other New Age phonies.
      No he doesn't. Ferris is working much harder than most. Promoting new book, writing blog posts, keeping scores and data on his experiments (like he did for his new book). He works tons. But at least he enjoys it and it doesn't feels as work too much. He is really good at positioning and making himself look like he is not working.

      Mdiddy1, don't outsource to Phillipines your top job, outsource design, SEO, and other tech stuff there. Keep the managerial job in your main location so you can meet your guy whenever needed and get to know him well..

      Offer internships for designers who just finished college too. Might result in someone real good!
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  • Profile picture of the author rbecklund
    Like people have said delegate. But I would hire local for someone to manage things then you work closer with them. Outsourcing to far flung corners of the world for cheap is good for somethings, but especially if they are going to be communicating with customers you would want them close so you can coordinate well with them.
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