Hmmm.. Interesting one here.. What do you do when a client harasses you and makes threats?

iAmNameLess - what happened that caused him to go whacko?

Judge Judy will knock it out in 30 minutes, with commercials!

Have you thought about just refunding his full amount and cutting ties?

orr.. it seems you want to cut ties, but keep money..

It seems some battles, even though you are correct, are not worthy fighting.. I don't know though lol..

Ryan

I had a guy that went off on me a few months ago. He hadn't paid his bill so I told him I would have to take his site down, he called and screamed...

"You motherf**er, you fuc*ed with the wrong guy. I know where you live and you better watch out! I am going to put your a$$ through a meat grinder"

He was in the jewelry business in Las Vegas, so I took it somewhat seriously.

I would wait till he got real hungry, then throw a chicken out in the road, and when he runs for it... I would get out of dodge while he was distracted.

(Got that from my grandson, explaining how he would deal with being confronted by a Lion in the street, as opposed to my boring "I 'd slay him with my light saber" duh.)

iAmNameless, how far into the job are you (that is, what would it cost you to just walk away, refund his money,a nd take down everything you did for him)?

Is this all said to you, or is it in writing? Has he said anything to anyone else, because now we'd be getting into libel/slander, and then you can take it further. Sorry to hear it's happened to you.

@ADukes 81...gruesome

Dont mind,leave it..

You might think this is the chicken s*** way out but we simply refunded this A hole's money. Called him up and said come by the office we have your refund in cash. Had a witness present just in case. By witness I mean a neutral third party.

Over the long run, at least IMHO, it is better to shed these types than try and hang on. They will always be abusive no matter what you do. We do the same thing with ins clients who yell and scream and call us names. F*** 'em, we don't need or want bad business, we need and want good business.

On the other hand, you may like the stress and constant grief. ;-)

Hope it works out for you.

Tom

Ouch.

I can see why you don't wish to back down at this juncture, and nor would I. It seems you have tracked everything you've done, so should be fine.

I wish I could give you some advice here, but I can't - never had to deal with a nasty client before.

@ Iamnameless

Hopefully this will help.

You cant stop thinking a thought, you can only move your mind to one that it likes entertaining better.

You cant stop thinking, but you can replace thoughts that drain you with ones that make you feel joy. You are there. You'll get it! This thread was your cleansing probably. You are letting it out and letting go.

Just find something exciting to put your mind on that fascinates you to no end about the future possibilities and the drained feeling will turn to excitement again.

In my offline businesses marketing related and long before that, I would always just give them a full refund and apologize that we had come to this.

I always calculated that with all the money I use to advertise to get clients and with how strong word of mouth is, the last thing I need is a very verbal, unhappy client telling everyone they know how bad I am.

It just isn't worth it.

Refund all the money move on and make a lot more.

Also, in the future, this is another tactic to use.

After you have a new client sign your contracts that specifically says what you will and what you won't be doing and start working for them, have them fill out a survey for each major action or each phase if it is one major project and at the end of the short survey that asked for just a numerical rating, ask for any testimonial about the service so far.

It helps people to stay more positive if they have to come up with positive over the course of the project.

Early on in my first big business offline, I realized that misunderstanding was the leading cause of client upsets. They expect something that was never agreed to in the first place.

That is when I started making what I WASN'T going to do a list in the contract that they had to initial each line item that they understood it.

CALL the WARRIOR FORUM GOON SQUAD ON HIM!!!

So why are you considering a refund of $6000 (or any other amount) if you did all the work specified for it?

One call to the police and printouts of any e-mailed threats will stop them and any more phone calls in less than a day.

Unfortunately, this is part of business. I remember reading about a successful entrepreneur once said:

"You know you're successful when you have pissed off customers!"

There is truth to that. Not in the sense that you should provide a horrible service, be a scam artist and try to con people out of their money, but in the sense that we're all emotional people/beings and sometimes, you just can't please your client, no matter what you do.

Sadly, I'm sure you were just the easy target of the day. You never know what is going on in someone's life. Let's not forget, times are rough still and for some business owners, the stress is too much (which would bring me to a WHOLE other topic of people who shouldn't be business owners, but that's for another thread ).

Sounds like he got his steam off his chest and he's going to move onto the next creditor to yell at, so don't worry about it. I've been there... SEVERAL TIMES.

Let's not forget that you DO provide a great service and you DO provide value for you clients. Stand tall and proud at the work you do. If he can't see the value and run his business efficiently, that's his problem. That's what I do to remind myself when a get a client that goes crazy on me.

No way in hell I'd offer more than a 50% refund for work that has already been completed. I think 50% is even too generous. Just cut ties with him and as long as you are in the right, if he takes you to court it shouldn't be too big of a problem.

I would usually ignore it if it is his fault for not reading the details. If it is my fault then a refund will surely come.

I think your offer to 'rebate' (refund) the customer is your best bet. Cut ties and walk away. If you have done your part, to the best that you are able, to fulfill the contract, then that's all you can do. Only you know for sure (not saying you didn't) and you can have piece of mind.

The other thing I would consider is in this day and age, is if they made threats to do you harm, take serious note of it. Not to say you run and hide, but with people you never know. Too many reports every day where someone gets up in the morning and decides it's a good day to die. Then takes as many with them as they can.

At least when they threaten you, you know where they are coming from.

Last thing, in the state of Florida, a verbal threat (for any reason) is considered a class 3 felony. If they are dumb enough to want to blow smoke, I let the law handle it. Better safe than sorry.

Of course if they bring it to my doorstep, then all bets are off.

Thanks,

John

Iamnameless,

You and I have agreed to disagree about this before. I do not use contracts.
At the first sign that there is a irreconcilable difference, I refund the FULL
amount. Wash my hands. Get a good night's sleep. And wake up to a new
and glorious day. Not everybody's cup of tea. But works for me.

Hugh

That is quite possibly the worst business advice I have heard in my life.

My time is worth money. And to quote a video I saw earlier today: "F*ck you, Pay me" 2011/03 Mike Monteiro | F*ck You. Pay Me. on Vimeo

Well.. long story.. but to sum it up the problem I think is taken care of as he is in jail.

After reading the whole thread.....I am curious. Hopefully he doesn't have your partial refund to spring himself on bail......

Ok fellow warrior, If you completed the work required to date and he technically owes you $2,500. No refund is required. He has not a leg to stand on. His personality I am willing to bet tells all and this was not the first time people have seen him for who he is. The same would happen in court and on the internet if he tries to cause damage. People can pick out a trouble maker really quick these days and the only people who climb aboard is other trouble makers. Outside of his rantings I dont think you have a problem here.

He barks louder than most dogs and will get a little closer than most dogs most, this will intimidate most and that is what this dog counts on. The reason he barks so loud is he doesnt want to bite. Because if he has to go that far you will find that when he bites his teeth are gone and he has no real ability to hurt you. Thus again the extreemly loud barking.

A judge would laught at this case as quick as most people would pick up on who he is if he indeed tried to post negative things. Most likely there is a post office of mail men he is barking at. You are just one on his list.

No refund in my book. You did the work you got paid for. You dont get your time back, and you give refunds on leget situations.

Hmmm refund $6000 or spend $1,000 to $2,000 letting a lawyer take care of it with harassment charges it he presist when he gets out.

Ways to not let it bother you. Delet voice mails as soon you hear his voice, do not read emails or text messages. He can not hurt you. It is a situation if he files a law suit but not till then. Ignor the barking dog and continue on your way. Leaglly you have the upper hand and you have so many more satisified clients. I am willing to bet he has alot more problems than you do. I just dont see a refund or a reason to worry.

People walk in fear way to much these days and think. "oh if i dont refund there goes my business." Not true, If you rip off 100 people and dont refund yes. But this is far from the case.

He's taken up residence in a gated community, has he?

Michael,

My business philosophy has nothing to do with fear. But rather to do
with having a clear head. As most small businessmen, I live by being
very observant to the situation around me and reacting accordingly.

When I have a bad client, I fire him. If there is a dispute over money,
I first settle for whatever it takes, then fire him. If I spend two days
worrying about a customer, I might miss the next multi-thousand
dollar deal. Besides, I'm too old to give up 2 days of my life.

That's how I keep it fun. I sleep well. I really like doing what I do.
That's how I've taken damned good care of my family for over 35 years.

Hugh

Are you sure about that?

I'll be honest I don't think it matters what type of clause you have in that contract, if someone does a charge back, there is a 110% chance you are never getting that money back.

Chargebacks are made to protect the consumer, not the business. In all the years I've done chargebacks, and seen other people do chargebacks, I am yet to see ONE business ever get their money back (I'm still young however so who knows?).

I've even seen people outright defraud business's with chargebacks, big business's that weren't able to do a thing about it. You need to prove in court that such and such person never intended on paying in the first place, and thats virtually impossible to prove in most cases.

I'm no expert on chargebacks, but if someone ever does one, and you actually get your money back, I would love to hear the story one day.

As far as the insults. Thats usually when my boss tells customers to straight "f$$k off" and hangs up the phone. One time he had a customer threaten to not pay. You know what he did? Sent his install crew over with a lawyer. They got access inside the home because it was their system that they installed. The guy didn't want to pay, the crew ripped the sheetrock walls out right in front of the wife, ripped all the pipes out, and took the system back with them leaving their house a total mess.

This husband came home from work and flipped out, called the cops. The cops didn't do anything. He tried to press charges, and it never even made it to court.

So I'll be honest I have no idea what your rights actually are (which kinda makes this post meaningless lol). But I can tell you one thing, I absolutely despise peope like that. I'd tell the guy to eat **** and die personally. If he wants to do a chargeback, I'd **** all over his business getting negative reviews EVERYWHERE. If he had PPC campaigns I'd set up bots to keep clicking his ads all day long. I'd email his customers behind a proxy and tell them his company was defrauding people.

Or have you ever considered recording conversations? Something like that alone can provide you some really great leverage. All you need is one recording of him acting like a douchebag, then threaten to mail it to all of his clients (while you press the pause button of course) I mean seriously though screw this guy, he wants to play with the bull, give him the horns.

-Red

It looks a lot more evil than it really is lol.

Not every idea is right for someone, so I like to provide as many as possible just so people don't feel like they're out of options. =]

But really. Don't do anything I said. We are use to running a business where personal relationships aren't important. Its a one time thing and people use it out of emergency (basement waterproofing). We are learning in our second business that its more important to be professional. Websites and SEO you definitely need to focus on your reputation more, so just ignore my advice (which if your smart you would have done that anyway =]).

Screen your clients better...the crazy ones are usually easily to spot..lol..all money aint good money!!

well..there are lots of crazy people out there for sure...

BUT there's always 2 sides to a story. Smethoing must have not gone according to plan?

So I will not automatically side with you as we don't know the facts of this.

Why not simply refund him and move on? If it';s causing you this much stress? If he puts big effort into "spamming and calling your biz online" it wil lcost you alot mor ethan that.

wish I had friends like that!