Hmmm.. Interesting one here.. What do you do when a client harasses you and makes threats?

53 replies
I rarely ever have this problem..

It is partially my fault because in the screening process he said that his past 2 relationships with web designers have been, well, not so good.

I figured, it's a common thing. A lot of people bite off more than they can chew and can't complete the job. It is easy to understand a client's position because I hear about it quite a bit. The thing that really should have set off alarms was that he had an issue with 2 other companies, completely unrelated to what we were doing. The guy needed dialysis, and a kidney transplant.. and I sincerely wanted to help him launch his business.

Since then.. I have regretted and dreaded every second.

I have offered a 50% refund which I don't think he is going to take. I have a chargeback clause in my contract which states he can be held for damages and win or lose he has to pay the credit card board arbitration fee.. any chargeback that might happen, I fight and also pursue in court. So I'm not worried about that.

What can be done about the insults and harassment? It's ridiculous what this man says... you guys might see me on this board and think that I may have made a client react a certain way because of my personality, but this is business and customer service, support, and retention, I do my absolute best to keep my clients happy.

He didn't make threats to physically harm me, but the insults and threats you can imagine or think of, he said LOL.

Is there any kind of business protection that protects you from customers? LMAO.
#client #harasses #hmmm #interesting #makes #threats
  • Profile picture of the author atrbiz
    iAmNameLess - what happened that caused him to go whacko?
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  • Profile picture of the author ryanmckinney
    Judge Judy will knock it out in 30 minutes, with commercials!

    Have you thought about just refunding his full amount and cutting ties?

    orr.. it seems you want to cut ties, but keep money..

    It seems some battles, even though you are correct, are not worthy fighting.. I don't know though lol..

    Ryan
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  • Profile picture of the author ADukes81
    I had a guy that went off on me a few months ago. He hadn't paid his bill so I told him I would have to take his site down, he called and screamed...

    "You motherf**er, you fuc*ed with the wrong guy. I know where you live and you better watch out! I am going to put your a$$ through a meat grinder"

    He was in the jewelry business in Las Vegas, so I took it somewhat seriously.
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    • Profile picture of the author atrbiz
      Originally Posted by ADukes81 View Post

      I had a guy that went off on me a few months ago. He hadn't paid his bill so I told him I would have to take his site down, he called and screamed...

      "You motherf**er, you fuc*ed with the wrong guy. I know where you live and you better watch out! I am going to put your a$$ through a meat grinder"

      He was in the jewelry business in Las Vegas, so I took it somewhat seriously.
      wow that guy was nuts for sure. Luckily I haven't had any past/current clients make any crazy threats like that. A few folks that got loud on the phone but nothing I wasn't able to manage.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by ADukes81 View Post

      I had a guy that went off on me a few months ago. He hadn't paid his bill so I told him I would have to take his site down, he called and screamed...

      "You motherf**er, you fuc*ed with the wrong guy. I know where you live and you better watch out! I am going to put your a$$ through a meat grinder"

      He was in the jewelry business in Las Vegas, so I took it somewhat seriously.
      Dukes I once had almost 100 people chasing me after a business failed years ago, and they all had threats like that... I didnt even want to walk out my front door for a week.

      My friend, who had recently let go of almost 300 employees had been in a similar boat...

      He told me that within a month there would only be thirty left hollering, and that within 3 months there would only be a few left...and within six months nobody would be howling at my door anymore if I just ignored it and did my best to move forward. He was right.

      Alot of guys bark real loud, but surely he cant be that ignorant to physically harm a vendor if he is that successful in jewelry. I would hope at least.

      I would ignore him out of my existence till he disappears and finds something else to bark at, or if you feel the need there is no shame in reporting him.

      A guy like that probably has alot more stresses than merely you, and you are only a factor in his mind when you are directly on the phone with him probably. He probably puts it down and immediately goes off barking at something else. Maybe even his wife , kids, or secretary...

      He sounds like a "type". Not a pleasant one. They are just bulldogs... but you arent the only focus trust me, his whole world is probably that way, and he cant put the whole world in a meat grinder right?

      Maybe tell him you see his sadness on the inside and ask if he needs a hug. lol
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      • Profile picture of the author jimbo13
        Insults will disappear over time as John states.

        However, it is prudent to reduce the timescale.

        A full refund will reduce this timescale wouldn't it?

        Nearly all large companies will factor bad debt into their pricing policies. Essentially this is a bad debt.

        One would normally issue a letter of non-admittance with it. This means here is your money back now shut up. ie The acceptance of refund predicates it was a no fault refund. Get a lawyer to knock one out for you to have on file.

        This will stop any slander.

        Some things are worth fighting for, some things are not.

        I take it this is an infrequent event. Just add 2.5% to your prices to cover these things.

        Dan
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      • Profile picture of the author Kirahster
        Originally Posted by John Durham View Post


        Maybe tell him you see his sadness on the inside and ask if he needs a hug. lol
        Lol what a great quote. I love this!
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    • Profile picture of the author sandalwood
      Originally Posted by ADukes81 View Post

      I had a guy that went off on me a few months ago. He hadn't paid his bill so I told him I would have to take his site down, he called and screamed...

      "You motherf**er, you fuc*ed with the wrong guy. I know where you live and you better watch out! I am going to put your a$$ through a meat grinder"

      He was in the jewelry business in Las Vegas, so I took it somewhat seriously.
      Adam,

      Las Vegas jewelry dealers are that big of a threat, ey? I've been threatened w/the same type of crap. When I showed up at their office and looked them in the eye, they had a whole different tone.

      There was one time a guy pulled a gun on me. I looked him in the eye and said shoot or put the effing gun away. He didn't know what to do as nobody had ever called his bluff. True story. Happened back in my "cowboy" days.

      Anyway, I am not telling you to call his bluff but I bet if you do, you'll win. Of course, you could always get in tight w/the baddest MC in town and have your new found brothers showup at his place of business :-)

      Hope you can resolve your issue peaceably.

      Tom
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    I would wait till he got real hungry, then throw a chicken out in the road, and when he runs for it... I would get out of dodge while he was distracted.

    (Got that from my grandson, explaining how he would deal with being confronted by a Lion in the street, as opposed to my boring "I 'd slay him with my light saber" duh.)
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  • Profile picture of the author jacquic
    iAmNameless, how far into the job are you (that is, what would it cost you to just walk away, refund his money,a nd take down everything you did for him)?

    Is this all said to you, or is it in writing? Has he said anything to anyone else, because now we'd be getting into libel/slander, and then you can take it further. Sorry to hear it's happened to you.

    @ADukes 81...gruesome
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    • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
      Originally Posted by jacquic View Post

      iAmNameless, how far into the job are you (that is, what would it cost you to just walk away, refund his money,a nd take down everything you did for him)?
      Technically, he still owes an additional $2,500.
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      • Profile picture of the author sandalwood
        Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

        Technically, he still owes an additional $2,500.
        iAmNameLess,

        You probably don't want to hear a copule of hokey sayings but maybe, just maybe, they will help ease you onto bigger and better things:

        "The cyclone derives its powers from a calm center. So does a person."

        ~Norman Vincent Peale

        For a moment there you were sounding like the cyclone instead of the calm center. Can't hurt to sit back open a cool one and think about it which leads me to:

        "The only thing in life that you can control is your mind. You can't control what happens to you, but you CAN control the way you interpret these things in your mind."

        I don't know who said that last saying but tell me it isn't true. I'm not implying he doesn't owe you $2500 because technically he does. However, on another level, does he really?

        Your posts tell me you seem to be able to make the necessary adjustments when needed.

        Tom
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  • Profile picture of the author vijai
    Dont mind,leave it..
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  • Profile picture of the author sandalwood
    You might think this is the chicken s*** way out but we simply refunded this A hole's money. Called him up and said come by the office we have your refund in cash. Had a witness present just in case. By witness I mean a neutral third party.

    Over the long run, at least IMHO, it is better to shed these types than try and hang on. They will always be abusive no matter what you do. We do the same thing with ins clients who yell and scream and call us names. F*** 'em, we don't need or want bad business, we need and want good business.

    On the other hand, you may like the stress and constant grief. ;-)

    Hope it works out for you.

    Tom

    Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

    I rarely ever have this problem..

    It is partially my fault because in the screening process he said that his past 2 relationships with web designers have been, well, not so good.

    I figured, it's a common thing. A lot of people bite off more than they can chew and can't complete the job. It is easy to understand a client's position because I hear about it quite a bit. The thing that really should have set off alarms was that he had an issue with 2 other companies, completely unrelated to what we were doing. The guy needed dialysis, and a kidney transplant.. and I sincerely wanted to help him launch his business.

    Since then.. I have regretted and dreaded every second.

    I have offered a 50% refund which I don't think he is going to take. I have a chargeback clause in my contract which states he can be held for damages and win or lose he has to pay the credit card board arbitration fee.. any chargeback that might happen, I fight and also pursue in court. So I'm not worried about that.

    What can be done about the insults and harassment? It's ridiculous what this man says... you guys might see me on this board and think that I may have made a client react a certain way because of my personality, but this is business and customer service, support, and retention, I do my absolute best to keep my clients happy.

    He didn't make threats to physically harm me, but the insults and threats you can imagine or think of, he said LOL.

    Is there any kind of business protection that protects you from customers? LMAO.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by sandalwood View Post

      You might think this is the chicken s*** way out but we simply refunded this A hole's money. Called him up and said come by the office we have your refund in cash. Had a witness present just in case. By witness I mean a neutral third party.

      Over the long run, at least IMHO, it is better to shed these types than try and hang on. They will always be abusive no matter what you do. We do the same thing with ins clients who yell and scream and call us names. F*** 'em, we don't need or want bad business, we need and want good business.

      On the other hand, you may like the stress and constant grief. ;-)

      Hope it works out for you.

      Tom
      We typed alot of the same answer simultaneously here. Cool validation.

      I call this guy the "Steve Smith" type. Steve Smith was a redneck millionaire client I use to have who owned a site called the music city news I think...Anyway, he was a boss hog type and could not have a meeting with me without reminding me that he would chase me down and kick my A_ if I ever f'd him over...

      He got to where he didnt pay either and I cut him off midstream... and still today I think he would love to kick my butt judging from our last conversation, something about "I had better not see you on the street..."...but in this case I really would just really throw a chicken out in the road with a couple of twinkies and run, because it would WORK on this guy! Especially if it had a bottle of everclear with it Im sure.

      The true reason i dumped him wasnt because of the pay, it was because he wanted me to go hang out in clubs and things talking about the future of his site once a week, blowing up my cell all the time like I was his business partner or something...and it was causing me marital probs... My wife didnt respect me jumping up whenever this guy said jump.

      And he actually sent limo's to my house and stuff to pick me up for meetings... Smoking cigars and drinking whiskey in the back...talking about women and "I'll get you whatever you want...", just not a good scene for a married guy.

      Hated that relationship from the minute I took the check.

      Today I jump for NO ONE! Especially if they expect me to. I PURPOSEFULLY wont jump.., That was 12-14 years ago or so... It wasnt long till I learned that you'd better set solid precedents with people from the beginning.
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      • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
        Originally Posted by atrbiz View Post

        iAmNameLess - what happened that caused him to go whacko?
        He started going wacko because no one was available to take his call at 11pm on a saturday night. We preceded to go wacko when I refused to use copyrighted material and asked me to write negative reviews on his competitors.

        It went further south when I told him any further changes will be charged at $125/hr

        Originally Posted by jacquic View Post

        iAmNameless, how far into the job are you (that is, what would it cost you to just walk away, refund his money,a nd take down everything you did for him)?

        Is this all said to you, or is it in writing? Has he said anything to anyone else, because now we'd be getting into libel/slander, and then you can take it further. Sorry to hear it's happened to you.

        @ADukes 81...gruesome
        Everything that was listed in the scope of the work in the contract has been completed. I don't give into refund requests at this stage, EVER..

        I kind of think this is a type of person that is just looking for reasons to be unhappy to get his money back. I think that's a game he's played all his life, and works for him.

        He hasn't said anything to anyone else yet, but I'm carefully monitoring everything and ready to move forward the second he does.

        It's just ridiculous... what he wanted has been completed, ahead of schedule, with changes he wanted. I almost hope he does do what he says because then it's easy to squish him without holding back.

        Times like this, it is really challenging for me to not fly off the handle and go coocoo for cocoa puffs like he is. I know I have to represent myself and my company professionally, and prepare to build my case at all times, not just for a chargeback but possibly more.
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        • Profile picture of the author John Durham
          Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

          Times like this, it is really challenging for me to not fly off the handle and go coocoo for cocoa puffs like he is. I know I have to represent myself and my company professionally, and prepare to build my case at all times, not just for a chargeback but possibly more.
          Even more importantly, you cant let it hold you back emotionally for a week and lose momentum, which is easy to do if we arent careful.
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  • Profile picture of the author jacquic
    Ouch.

    I can see why you don't wish to back down at this juncture, and nor would I. It seems you have tracked everything you've done, so should be fine.

    I wish I could give you some advice here, but I can't - never had to deal with a nasty client before.
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    • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      Even more importantly, you cant let it hold you back emotionally for a week and lose momentum, which is easy to do if we arent careful.
      Thank you John... that post, even though it is one of the shortest in the thread, opened my eyes.

      ****.. I let this mother flicker control the entire past week, and going into this week. Been thinking about it and it's been making my mind race even when laying down to sleep, and in the shower, LOL.

      It's normal for me to be thinking business at ALL times.. but it's usually strategizing, thinking, planning and preparing for new feats and adventures and making progress taking another step forward.

      I haven't been able to mentally do that, and didn't even realize it.
      Originally Posted by jacquic View Post

      Ouch.

      I can see why you don't wish to back down at this juncture, and nor would I. It seems you have tracked everything you've done, so should be fine.

      I wish I could give you some advice here, but I can't - never had to deal with a nasty client before.
      I've had a few nasty ones before, but nothing major. I can handle most issues and conflicts, this one is just far more difficult.
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      • Profile picture of the author valuecreator
        Learning from the experience is a 1000 times more important than hanging on to the money... give back the money, take full responsability, learn from the experience, move on.

        that will make you a smoother operator.

        remember, can't fight with a pig in kaka...
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    @ Iamnameless

    Hopefully this will help.

    You cant stop thinking a thought, you can only move your mind to one that it likes entertaining better.

    You cant stop thinking, but you can replace thoughts that drain you with ones that make you feel joy. You are there. You'll get it! This thread was your cleansing probably. You are letting it out and letting go.

    Just find something exciting to put your mind on that fascinates you to no end about the future possibilities and the drained feeling will turn to excitement again.
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  • Profile picture of the author TopKat22
    In my offline businesses marketing related and long before that, I would always just give them a full refund and apologize that we had come to this.

    I always calculated that with all the money I use to advertise to get clients and with how strong word of mouth is, the last thing I need is a very verbal, unhappy client telling everyone they know how bad I am.

    It just isn't worth it.

    Refund all the money move on and make a lot more.

    Also, in the future, this is another tactic to use.

    After you have a new client sign your contracts that specifically says what you will and what you won't be doing and start working for them, have them fill out a survey for each major action or each phase if it is one major project and at the end of the short survey that asked for just a numerical rating, ask for any testimonial about the service so far.

    It helps people to stay more positive if they have to come up with positive over the course of the project.

    Early on in my first big business offline, I realized that misunderstanding was the leading cause of client upsets. They expect something that was never agreed to in the first place.

    That is when I started making what I WASN'T going to do a list in the contract that they had to initial each line item that they understood it.
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    • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
      Originally Posted by TopKat22 View Post

      In my offline businesses marketing related and long before that, I would always just give them a full refund and apologize that we had come to this.

      I always calculated that with all the money I use to advertise to get clients and with how strong word of mouth is, the last thing I need is a very verbal, unhappy client telling everyone they know how bad I am.

      It just isn't worth it.

      Refund all the money move on and make a lot more.

      Also, in the future, this is another tactic to use.

      After you have a new client sign your contracts that specifically says what you will and what you won't be doing and start working for them, have them fill out a survey for each major action or each phase if it is one major project and at the end of the short survey that asked for just a numerical rating, ask for any testimonial about the service so far.

      It helps people to stay more positive if they have to come up with positive over the course of the project.

      Early on in my first big business offline, I realized that misunderstanding was the leading cause of client upsets. They expect something that was never agreed to in the first place.

      That is when I started making what I WASN'T going to do a list in the contract that they had to initial each line item that they understood it.
      My offer was to refund $6,000.. which was 50% of the project fee... other fees were racked up but haven't been paid. I'm not refunding him $12,000 for all the work that has been completed. LOL.

      I also spelled everything out in the contract, the scope of work, and then fees for additional tasks if he decided he wanted add-ons later on in the project.

      Good tip on the survey.. I'll try to implement that. Really good idea I haven't thought of.
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      • Profile picture of the author Jerry McGough
        i.a.n.
        At the top of thread....even though it would pain me....I'd have said give him money and cut your loses to save your local reputation.
        Whack-jobs do too much damage and can't be reasoned with.

        But.....you've since said you're confident you've fulfilled a contract....you offered half back....his demands were unreasonable (the 11 pm part)...you've done additional work.....AND MOST IMPORTATLY....the amount of money involved.

        A few thousand buys ammo (not the kind we want). Lawyers and police get off on shutting down and shutting up morons like this.

        He didn't accept your offer, so I'd withdraw it....after seeking legal counsel.
        Give a few grand to a lawyer who will then file a libel suit if necessary.

        if he had enough money for the contract he signed, there's probably a lot more where that came from.

        Sounds like he's trying to bully his money back. Lawyers and police love bullies....
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        • Profile picture of the author MonteMichaels
          Originally Posted by Jerry McGough View Post

          i.a.n.
          At the top of thread....even though it would pain me....I'd have said give him money and cut your loses to save your local reputation.
          Whack-jobs do too much damage and can't be reasoned with.

          But.....you've since said you're confident you've fulfilled a contract....you offered half back....his demands were unreasonable (the 11 pm part)...you've done additional work.....AND MOST IMPORTATLY....the amount of money involved.

          A few thousand buys ammo (not the kind we want). Lawyers and police get off on shutting down and shutting up morons like this.

          He didn't accept your offer, so I'd withdraw it....after seeking legal counsel.
          Give a few grand to a lawyer who will then file a libel suit if necessary.

          if he had enough money for the contract he signed, there's probably a lot more where that came from.

          Sounds like he's trying to bully his money back. Lawyers and police love bullies....
          Just because you refund his money does not mean that he will not go around flapping his gums. These types are professional low lives and could not care less how much a person or a business will bend over backwards for them.

          You will never be able to make them happy no matter what you do to kiss their a@#. Some people thrive off of this type of confrontation and think that the world owes them.
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  • Profile picture of the author ebizman
    CALL the WARRIOR FORUM GOON SQUAD ON HIM!!!
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    ...I love cold calling.

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  • Profile picture of the author beeswarn
    So why are you considering a refund of $6000 (or any other amount) if you did all the work specified for it?

    One call to the police and printouts of any e-mailed threats will stop them and any more phone calls in less than a day.
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    • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
      Originally Posted by beeswarn View Post

      So why are you considering a refund of $6000 (or any other amount) if you did all the work specified for it?

      One call to the police and printouts of any e-mailed threats will stop them and any more phone calls in less than a day.
      Well, because I didn't want the hassle and wanted a clean break.

      The threats I have recorded on the phone and through email but it isn't physical and I really doubt that's going to help. I don't deal with only local clients, but clients across the country. This one is in the same state but about 300 miles away.
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  • Profile picture of the author Voasi
    Unfortunately, this is part of business. I remember reading about a successful entrepreneur once said:

    "You know you're successful when you have pissed off customers!"

    There is truth to that. Not in the sense that you should provide a horrible service, be a scam artist and try to con people out of their money, but in the sense that we're all emotional people/beings and sometimes, you just can't please your client, no matter what you do.

    Sadly, I'm sure you were just the easy target of the day. You never know what is going on in someone's life. Let's not forget, times are rough still and for some business owners, the stress is too much (which would bring me to a WHOLE other topic of people who shouldn't be business owners, but that's for another thread ).

    Sounds like he got his steam off his chest and he's going to move onto the next creditor to yell at, so don't worry about it. I've been there... SEVERAL TIMES.

    Let's not forget that you DO provide a great service and you DO provide value for you clients. Stand tall and proud at the work you do. If he can't see the value and run his business efficiently, that's his problem. That's what I do to remind myself when a get a client that goes crazy on me.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mav91890
    No way in hell I'd offer more than a 50% refund for work that has already been completed. I think 50% is even too generous. Just cut ties with him and as long as you are in the right, if he takes you to court it shouldn't be too big of a problem.
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  • Profile picture of the author veheme
    I would usually ignore it if it is his fault for not reading the details. If it is my fault then a refund will surely come.
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  • Profile picture of the author globalpro
    I think your offer to 'rebate' (refund) the customer is your best bet. Cut ties and walk away. If you have done your part, to the best that you are able, to fulfill the contract, then that's all you can do. Only you know for sure (not saying you didn't) and you can have piece of mind.

    The other thing I would consider is in this day and age, is if they made threats to do you harm, take serious note of it. Not to say you run and hide, but with people you never know. Too many reports every day where someone gets up in the morning and decides it's a good day to die. Then takes as many with them as they can.

    At least when they threaten you, you know where they are coming from.

    Last thing, in the state of Florida, a verbal threat (for any reason) is considered a class 3 felony. If they are dumb enough to want to blow smoke, I let the law handle it. Better safe than sorry.

    Of course if they bring it to my doorstep, then all bets are off.

    Thanks,

    John
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  • Profile picture of the author Hugh
    Iamnameless,

    You and I have agreed to disagree about this before. I do not use contracts.
    At the first sign that there is a irreconcilable difference, I refund the FULL
    amount. Wash my hands. Get a good night's sleep. And wake up to a new
    and glorious day. Not everybody's cup of tea. But works for me.

    Hugh
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  • Profile picture of the author Andrew H
    You and I have agreed to disagree about this before. I do not use contracts.
    At the first sign that there is a irreconcilable difference, I refund the FULL
    amount. Wash my hands. Get a good night's sleep. And wake up to a new
    and glorious day. Not everybody's cup of tea. But works for me.
    That is quite possibly the worst business advice I have heard in my life.

    My time is worth money. And to quote a video I saw earlier today: "F*ck you, Pay me" 2011/03 Mike Monteiro | F*ck You. Pay Me. on Vimeo
    Signature
    "You shouldn't come here and set yourself up as the resident wizard of oz."
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  • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
    Well.. long story.. but to sum it up the problem I think is taken care of as he is in jail.
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    • Profile picture of the author Nathan Alexander
      Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

      Well.. long story.. but to sum it up the problem I think is taken care of as he is in jail.
      Jail? Or prison? Or in jail on his way to prison? My wife is a probation officer (and she's hot too...) and I had no idea of the difference until a number of years ago. Most others probably do, but I'm just curious.

      Don't let him dictate your life. Let him speak to your lawyer only (although that will cost you I suppose).

      Or, you could always find some voodoo work on fiverr. Pay a couple times and you should be good to go.
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  • Profile picture of the author JScoppa
    After reading the whole thread.....I am curious. Hopefully he doesn't have your partial refund to spring himself on bail......
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Bucker
    Ok fellow warrior, If you completed the work required to date and he technically owes you $2,500. No refund is required. He has not a leg to stand on. His personality I am willing to bet tells all and this was not the first time people have seen him for who he is. The same would happen in court and on the internet if he tries to cause damage. People can pick out a trouble maker really quick these days and the only people who climb aboard is other trouble makers. Outside of his rantings I dont think you have a problem here.

    He barks louder than most dogs and will get a little closer than most dogs most, this will intimidate most and that is what this dog counts on. The reason he barks so loud is he doesnt want to bite. Because if he has to go that far you will find that when he bites his teeth are gone and he has no real ability to hurt you. Thus again the extreemly loud barking.

    A judge would laught at this case as quick as most people would pick up on who he is if he indeed tried to post negative things. Most likely there is a post office of mail men he is barking at. You are just one on his list.

    No refund in my book. You did the work you got paid for. You dont get your time back, and you give refunds on leget situations.

    Hmmm refund $6000 or spend $1,000 to $2,000 letting a lawyer take care of it with harassment charges it he presist when he gets out.

    Ways to not let it bother you. Delet voice mails as soon you hear his voice, do not read emails or text messages. He can not hurt you. It is a situation if he files a law suit but not till then. Ignor the barking dog and continue on your way. Leaglly you have the upper hand and you have so many more satisified clients. I am willing to bet he has alot more problems than you do. I just dont see a refund or a reason to worry.

    People walk in fear way to much these days and think. "oh if i dont refund there goes my business." Not true, If you rip off 100 people and dont refund yes. But this is far from the case.
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  • Profile picture of the author beeswarn
    He's taken up residence in a gated community, has he?
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  • Profile picture of the author Hugh
    Michael,

    My business philosophy has nothing to do with fear. But rather to do
    with having a clear head. As most small businessmen, I live by being
    very observant to the situation around me and reacting accordingly.

    When I have a bad client, I fire him. If there is a dispute over money,
    I first settle for whatever it takes, then fire him. If I spend two days
    worrying about a customer, I might miss the next multi-thousand
    dollar deal. Besides, I'm too old to give up 2 days of my life.

    That's how I keep it fun. I sleep well. I really like doing what I do.
    That's how I've taken damned good care of my family for over 35 years.

    Hugh
    Signature

    "Never make someone a priority in your life who makes you an option in theirs." Anon.
    "Some see private enterprise as a predatory target to be shot, others as a cow to be milked, but few are those who see it as a sturdy horse pulling the wagon." -- Winston Churchill

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  • Profile picture of the author RedShifted
    Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

    I have offered a 50% refund which I don't think he is going to take. I have a chargeback clause in my contract which states he can be held for damages and win or lose he has to pay the credit card board arbitration fee.. any chargeback that might happen, I fight and also pursue in court. So I'm not worried about that.
    Are you sure about that?

    I'll be honest I don't think it matters what type of clause you have in that contract, if someone does a charge back, there is a 110% chance you are never getting that money back.

    Chargebacks are made to protect the consumer, not the business. In all the years I've done chargebacks, and seen other people do chargebacks, I am yet to see ONE business ever get their money back (I'm still young however so who knows?).

    I've even seen people outright defraud business's with chargebacks, big business's that weren't able to do a thing about it. You need to prove in court that such and such person never intended on paying in the first place, and thats virtually impossible to prove in most cases.

    I'm no expert on chargebacks, but if someone ever does one, and you actually get your money back, I would love to hear the story one day.

    As far as the insults. Thats usually when my boss tells customers to straight "f$$k off" and hangs up the phone. One time he had a customer threaten to not pay. You know what he did? Sent his install crew over with a lawyer. They got access inside the home because it was their system that they installed. The guy didn't want to pay, the crew ripped the sheetrock walls out right in front of the wife, ripped all the pipes out, and took the system back with them leaving their house a total mess.

    This husband came home from work and flipped out, called the cops. The cops didn't do anything. He tried to press charges, and it never even made it to court.

    So I'll be honest I have no idea what your rights actually are (which kinda makes this post meaningless lol). But I can tell you one thing, I absolutely despise peope like that. I'd tell the guy to eat **** and die personally. If he wants to do a chargeback, I'd **** all over his business getting negative reviews EVERYWHERE. If he had PPC campaigns I'd set up bots to keep clicking his ads all day long. I'd email his customers behind a proxy and tell them his company was defrauding people.

    Or have you ever considered recording conversations? Something like that alone can provide you some really great leverage. All you need is one recording of him acting like a douchebag, then threaten to mail it to all of his clients (while you press the pause button of course) I mean seriously though screw this guy, he wants to play with the bull, give him the horns.

    -Red
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    • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
      Originally Posted by RedShifted View Post

      Are you sure about that?

      I'll be honest I don't think it matters what type of clause you have in that contract, if someone does a charge back, there is a 110% chance you are never getting that money back.

      Chargebacks are made to protect the consumer, not the business. In all the years I've done chargebacks, and seen other people do chargebacks, I am yet to see ONE business ever get their money back (I'm still young however so who knows?).

      I've even seen people outright defraud business's with chargebacks, big business's that weren't able to do a thing about it. You need to prove in court that such and such person never intended on paying in the first place, and thats virtually impossible to prove in most cases.

      I'm no expert on chargebacks, but if someone ever does one, and you actually get your money back, I would love to hear the story one day.

      As far as the insults. Thats usually when my boss tells customers to straight "f$ off" and hangs up the phone. One time he had a customer threaten to not pay. You know what he did? Sent his install crew over with a lawyer. They got access inside the home because it was their system that they installed. The guy didn't want to pay, the crew ripped the sheetrock walls out right in front of the wife, ripped all the pipes out, and took the system back with them leaving their house a total mess.

      This husband came home from work and flipped out, called the cops. The cops didn't do anything. He tried to press charges, and it never even made it to court.

      So I'll be honest I have no idea what your rights actually are (which kinda makes this post meaningless lol). But I can tell you one thing, I absolutely despise peope like that. I'd tell the guy to eat **** and die personally. If he wants to do a chargeback, I'd **** all over his business getting negative reviews EVERYWHERE. If he had PPC campaigns I'd set up bots to keep clicking his ads all day long. I'd email his customers behind a proxy and tell them his company was defrauding people.

      Or have you ever considered recording conversations? Something like that alone can provide you some really great leverage. All you need is one recording of him acting like a douchebag, then threaten to mail it to all of his clients (while you press the pause button of course) I mean seriously though screw this guy, he wants to play with the bull, give him the horns.

      -Red
      I have never lost a chargeback with a real merchant account. I have lost many times when using paypal, but having a real merchant account helps. If you use paypal, 2co, alertpay or any of that other garbage out there that is only a processor and not a merchant, you will lose most chargebacks. Real merchant accounts offer a LOT more protection.

      Basically, the consumer charges back, I dispute, they can dispute once again, then the ball is in my court to decide whether or not I continue to fight it and have it go to an arbitration board, in which case I will win and the issuer of the chargeback has to pay an additional $500. Amex, visa, MC even discover, 100% win rate for me using a real merchant account.

      Documentation is the key in defending against chargebacks.
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    • Profile picture of the author Nathan Alexander
      Originally Posted by RedShifted View Post

      Are you sure about that?

      I'll be honest I don't think it matters what type of clause you have in that contract, if someone does a charge back, there is a 110% chance you are never getting that money back.

      Chargebacks are made to protect the consumer, not the business. In all the years I've done chargebacks, and seen other people do chargebacks, I am yet to see ONE business ever get their money back (I'm still young however so who knows?).

      I've even seen people outright defraud business's with chargebacks, big business's that weren't able to do a thing about it. You need to prove in court that such and such person never intended on paying in the first place, and thats virtually impossible to prove in most cases.

      I'm no expert on chargebacks, but if someone ever does one, and you actually get your money back, I would love to hear the story one day.

      As far as the insults. Thats usually when my boss tells customers to straight "f$ off" and hangs up the phone. One time he had a customer threaten to not pay. You know what he did? Sent his install crew over with a lawyer. They got access inside the home because it was their system that they installed. The guy didn't want to pay, the crew ripped the sheetrock walls out right in front of the wife, ripped all the pipes out, and took the system back with them leaving their house a total mess.

      This husband came home from work and flipped out, called the cops. The cops didn't do anything. He tried to press charges, and it never even made it to court.

      So I'll be honest I have no idea what your rights actually are (which kinda makes this post meaningless lol). But I can tell you one thing, I absolutely despise peope like that. I'd tell the guy to eat **** and die personally. If he wants to do a chargeback, I'd **** all over his business getting negative reviews EVERYWHERE. If he had PPC campaigns I'd set up bots to keep clicking his ads all day long. I'd email his customers behind a proxy and tell them his company was defrauding people.

      Or have you ever considered recording conversations? Something like that alone can provide you some really great leverage. All you need is one recording of him acting like a douchebag, then threaten to mail it to all of his clients (while you press the pause button of course) I mean seriously though screw this guy, he wants to play with the bull, give him the horns.

      -Red
      Count me in for never messing with you.
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  • Profile picture of the author RedShifted
    It looks a lot more evil than it really is lol.

    Not every idea is right for someone, so I like to provide as many as possible just so people don't feel like they're out of options. =]

    But really. Don't do anything I said. We are use to running a business where personal relationships aren't important. Its a one time thing and people use it out of emergency (basement waterproofing). We are learning in our second business that its more important to be professional. Websites and SEO you definitely need to focus on your reputation more, so just ignore my advice (which if your smart you would have done that anyway =]).
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  • Profile picture of the author nmvt
    Screen your clients better...the crazy ones are usually easily to spot..lol..all money aint good money!!
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  • Profile picture of the author sloanjim
    well..there are lots of crazy people out there for sure...

    BUT there's always 2 sides to a story. Smethoing must have not gone according to plan?

    So I will not automatically side with you as we don't know the facts of this.

    Why not simply refund him and move on? If it';s causing you this much stress? If he puts big effort into "spamming and calling your biz online" it wil lcost you alot mor ethan that.
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    • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
      Originally Posted by sloanjim View Post

      well..there are lots of crazy people out there for sure...

      BUT there's always 2 sides to a story. Smethoing must have not gone according to plan?

      So I will not automatically side with you as we don't know the facts of this.

      Why not simply refund him and move on? If it';s causing you this much stress? If he puts big effort into "spamming and calling your biz online" it wil lcost you alot mor ethan that.
      I don't give refunds when the work has been done. Also, it isn't an issue anymore, as he is in jail and I don't think he'll be out anytime soon.
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  • Profile picture of the author sloanjim
    wish I had friends like that!

    And he actually sent limo's to my house and stuff to pick me up for meetings... Smoking cigars and drinking whiskey in the back...talking about women and "I'll get you whatever you want...", just not a good scene for a married guy.
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