Google Update Have You GOING CRAZY Wondering What To Do For YOUR OFFLINE CLIENTS!?

67 replies
Thought I would share this with you guys as well, just sent out to my email list to give some free info on my take and my experience with what is going on.

Some of you are already subscribed, but I figure this would be good to strike some conversation and I can update in real time as I find out new info.

Solutions To Google's NEW Algorithm Update For Over Optimization and MORE!

Comments, opinions, questions, thoughts? All welcome. I plan on adding more and adjusting a little bit, but was crunched for time.
#clients #crazy #google #offline #update #wondering
  • Profile picture of the author mrtrance
    Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

    Thought I would share this with you guys as well, just sent out to my email list to give some free info on my take and my experience with what is going on.

    Some of you are already subscribed, but I figure this would be good to strike some conversation and I can update in real time as I find out new info.

    Solutions To Google's NEW Algorithm Update For Over Optimization and MORE!

    Comments, opinions, questions, thoughts? All welcome. I plan on adding more and adjusting a little bit, but was crunched for time.
    I read your post and my sites pretty much complies with what you mention, but all my adsense sites took a dive. Of course I might be lacking a bit of social media links, but all the other things you mentioned were present with my sites. :

    Exact Match Domains
    Keyword domains and secondary pages for exact matches
    On page optimization for loading time
    Video integration
    Backlink Building For Traffic
    Lower Keyword Density

    So having all those things why would my sites experience such a drop?

    I was thinking maybe since I used BMR on these sites that might be the main reason, but then I had sites that didn't use BMR got hit. But also my own local SEO site that used BMR actually moved to #1 spot and my client's site that I used BMR did not drop either. Another offline client that I do local SEO using the same backlink methods did not drop either. So I believe then my sites might be due to some onsite thing since they all use the same theme and layout.

    Just don't know what is the exact reason to pinpoint on why my sites took a hit.
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  • Profile picture of the author kcom
    Thanks for the information! Looks like most of it is common sense, like don't keyword stuff and don't use spammy profile links. I never felt right about Senuke, that is probably why I never used it, sounds like that was a right choice.
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  • Profile picture of the author globalpro
    Thanks for the article/update.

    It's nice to know that if you play by the rules, you can do well with things.

    Also signed up for your newsletter. You always have great info.

    John
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  • Profile picture of the author rbecklund
    All of my client sites are solid, I agree with exact match and sensible onpage optimization and solid but not garbage backlinking. But I haven't seen much from social media or signals. I read about this a lot at SEOMoz, but is it just to generate traffice, or by the fact that you are on Twitter FB etc and using that, that somehow you are going to rank better? That is not something I have seen.

    Nice post by the way.
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    • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
      Originally Posted by mrtrance View Post

      I read your post and my sites pretty much complies with what you mention, but all my adsense sites took a dive. Of course I might be lacking a bit of social media links, but all the other things you mentioned were present with my sites. :

      Exact Match Domains
      Keyword domains and secondary pages for exact matches
      On page optimization for loading time
      Video integration
      Backlink Building For Traffic
      Lower Keyword Density

      So having all those things why would my sites experience such a drop?

      I was thinking maybe since I used BMR on these sites that might be the main reason, but then I had sites that didn't use BMR got hit. But also my own local SEO site that used BMR actually moved to #1 spot and my client's site that I used BMR did not drop either. Another offline client that I do local SEO using the same backlink methods did not drop either. So I believe then my sites might be due to some onsite thing since they all use the same theme and layout.

      Just don't know what is the exact reason to pinpoint on why my sites took a hit.
      One thing I didn't mention is how I believe you may be in a bad neighborhood. If you are on a reseller account or shared hosting account with multiple adsense websites and the ones you used BMR for got hit, I believe the others will be hit as well.

      If you can, will you PM me the links to the sites that were hit? I'd like to examine them and see if I can find more common factors.

      Using certain backlinking methods, even if they are considered white hat, I believe can now hurt you.

      Keep in mind, the sites that used BMR might not have been penalized, but discredited. It is possible that your links were discredited in the BMR network but still naturally ranked higher.

      Also, the google places algorithm is different than the organic search so if you have sites that dropped in places it is a different issue.

      It is also possible that you didn't just drop.. but other sites were favored by the new change. Drop some more details so I can try to figure this out.

      Originally Posted by rbecklund View Post

      All of my client sites are solid, I agree with exact match and sensible onpage optimization and solid but not garbage backlinking. But I haven't seen much from social media or signals. I read about this a lot at SEOMoz, but is it just to generate traffice, or by the fact that you are on Twitter FB etc and using that, that somehow you are going to rank better? That is not something I have seen.

      Nice post by the way.
      It seems to me they're trying to perfect the social signal aspect of the algorithm. It could be just a very small factor but I think it is going to continue to grow. Have a branded twitter, facebook, google +, linkedin linking to your website, have share buttons and retweets. All my sites with active social media campaigns are growing in rank. Although, other websites without an active social media campaign haven't been hit.. they're just in the same spot, no change.
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  • Profile picture of the author wilder1047
    Haha I know this is a little off topic, but I just saw this post on SEOmoz.

    An Open Letter From a Frustrated Outsourced Link Building Author | SEOmoz

    Scroll down to the screen shot of one of his orders, "250 word article with 20% keyword density!!" Insane what people are thinking...
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  • Profile picture of the author Zach Crawford
    My take on the whole situation.

    Some of my sites took a hit. So I mixed things up a bit and the rankings came back.

    I build high quality web 2.0's with unique content.(no spinning)
    You can order 500 word unique content from iwriter. Build all your dirty links to these properties(senuke, scrapebox, profiles,etc)

    I did do-follow blog commenting with mixed anchors. None of them being my intended keywords. Just for diversity. This is directly to the money site by the way.

    Order Facebook likes and tweets. Spread these to different pages.

    Keep building links. Vary your anchors.

    Some of of your anchors should be unanchored( so http://mysite.com) not the keyword for the anchor. Use varied anchors like click her for keyword, the best source, or any random word someone may use naturally.

    It's not natural to just have targeted keywords. Think how you would link to a site if you were recommending it to your following.

    Redo your pages that are optimized for 3-5% keyword density. I dropped it down to no more then 2%. Made my content readable and able to pass a manual review. So basically no keyword stuffing.

    Still do the normal optimization like h1, h2, h3 tags, but if I can't make it look natural then only do the h1 tags.

    Keep building links as well. Don't build links and then stop because your at the top. Keep building links for maintenance.

    So far my rankings are popping back up to the top. Only time will tell, but so far it's working so I'm sticking with it.
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    • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
      Originally Posted by 88crxsi View Post

      My take on the whole situation.

      Some of my sites took a hit. So I mixed things up a bit and the rankings came back.

      I build high quality web 2.0's with unique content.(no spinning)
      You can order 500 word unique content from iwriter. Build all your dirty links to these properties(senuke, scrapebox, profiles,etc)

      I did do-follow blog commenting with mixed anchors. None of them being my intended keywords. Just for diversity. This is directly to the money site by the way.

      Order Facebook likes and tweets. Spread these to different pages.

      Keep building links. Vary your anchors.

      Some of of your anchors should be unanchored( so http://mysite.com) not the keyword for the anchor. Use varied anchors like click her for keyword, the best source, or any random word someone may use naturally.

      It's not natural to just have targeted keywords. Think how you would link to a site if you were recommending it to your following.

      Redo your pages that are optimized for 3-5% keyword density. I dropped it down to no more then 2%. Made my content readable and able to pass a manual review. So basically no keyword stuffing.

      Still do the normal optimization like h1, h2, h3 tags, but if I can't make it look natural then only do the h1 tags.

      Keep building links as well. Don't build links and then stop because your at the top. Keep building links for maintenance.

      So far my rankings are popping back up to the top. Only time will tell, but so far it's working so I'm sticking with it.
      So far? You mean you have done all this within a day or two? You don't move back up that fast. You may be talking post panda.

      Another good tip though, link velocity is very important. No more ordering thousands of links!
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  • Profile picture of the author Amsterdam81
    thanks for the info!
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  • Profile picture of the author RichAnderson
    Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

    Thought I would share this with you guys as well, just sent out to my email list to give some free info on my take and my experience with what is going on.

    Some of you are already subscribed, but I figure this would be good to strike some conversation and I can update in real time as I find out new info.

    Comments, opinions, questions, thoughts? All welcome. I plan on adding more and adjusting a little bit, but was crunched for time.
    Thanks for the input and the article that you posted. I think I'm pretty well squared away on the points you made with the exception of social media. I have done some but I should probably do more. I have one local dentist site which basically was a hobby for the last year. The main domain was ranked on the first page for multiple local dentist keywords and even above the seven pack for two of those keywords. I have a little over 10 posts with the site and most of them were ranking in the first five pages. After this latest Google update the main domain is nowhere to be found in the first 20 pages of Google but yet most of the inner post are still ranked in the first three or four pages. Have you heard anything about the main site being demoted like this is?
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    • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
      Originally Posted by RichAnderson View Post

      Thanks for the input and the article that you posted. I think I'm pretty well squared away on the points you made with the exception of social media. I have done some but I should probably do more. I have one local dentist site which basically was a hobby for the last year. The main domain was ranked on the first page for multiple local dentist keywords and even above the seven pack for two of those keywords. I have a little over 10 posts with the site and most of them were ranking in the first five pages. After this latest Google update the main domain is nowhere to be found in the first 20 pages of Google but yet most of the inner post are still ranked in the first three or four pages. Have you heard anything about the main site being demoted like this is?
      Sounds like an over optimization issue. Can you send me the link.. actually you don't have enough posts to PM, can you email the domain and keyword to me, nathan at too2web.com
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  • Profile picture of the author krzysiek
    iAmNameless I don't think the bad neighborhood thing is for certain. I have 5 sites on a VPS all on the same IP. 2 got hit, 3 didn't.
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  • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
    In 3 hours, possibly even sooner the link to my article has been indexed and ranking #3 for, solutions for over optimization algorithm... ranking 4 for solutions for over optimization, and over optimization solutions.

    That was without a meta description tag... I now just updated my meta description just to see if Google reverted back to taking into account meta descriptions. I think they have!
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  • Profile picture of the author Zach Crawford
    To clarify no I didn't mean in a day.

    I lost rankings around 3-4 weeks ago. Iv'e been doing this in the last couple weeks and my rankings are popping back up. Only time will tell. I know from here on out I'm only building high quality links, and using a wide range of anchors.

    I don't worry about every update that comes out everyday. I just build links on a regular basis, and monitor closely what's working and whats not.

    I don't even pay attention to half the threads worrying about what to do. It just makes me paranoid and I don't think logically then.

    Simply put the days of spamming and getting rankings is pretty much over. Now we are forced to build legit properties and build quality links.
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    • Profile picture of the author Chuck Avants
      I have very little experience in SEO but I believe if you buy likes or Google +'s, you are getting in the same boat as SENuke, profile links, and unnatural linking.

      Just putting that out for you to consider. If I was google I wouldn't want to see that. Just seems like common sense. I'm sure paying to get views to a you tube video would fall in the same category.

      I always laughed when someone said a spun article blasted to 1000 article directories looks natural to google as opposed to one article. Let's see, you have a 3 day old website and suddenly you have a thousand articles on the web. Yeah, that seems natural to me---not!
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      Do the right thing---
      Because it is the right thing to do
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  • Profile picture of the author zoro
    All mine and my clients sites that were on page one for more than 18 months have now been relegated to page 100 or beyond. My clients are screaming!!! and we are all losing dollars. SEO sucks!
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    • Profile picture of the author wilder1047
      Originally Posted by zoro View Post

      All mine and my clients sites that were on page one for more than 18 months have now been relegated to page 100 or beyond. My clients are screaming!!! and we are all losing dollars. SEO sucks!
      Wow, I feel for ya!!

      Maybe it'd be helpful to the forum if you could post some of the SEO methods you were using so we can learn from them...
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      • Profile picture of the author zoro
        Originally Posted by wilder1047 View Post

        Wow, I feel for ya!!

        Maybe it'd be helpful to the forum if you could post some of the SEO methods you were using so we can learn from them...
        Sure. Just basic on-page SEO, then matching domain name + city, press release, video, forum posts, Fiverr High PR Links, article directories, and original content.
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        • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
          Originally Posted by zoro View Post

          Sure. Just basic on-page SEO, then matching domain name + city, press release, video, forum posts, Fiverr High PR Links, article directories, and original content.
          Fiverr high PR links are not high pr links. They are no pr links on high pr domains on pages with high OBL and spam. If I had to guess it is because of the fiverr links and possibly article directories.
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          • Profile picture of the author zoro
            Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

            Fiverr high PR links are not high pr links. They are no pr links on high pr domains on pages with high OBL and spam. If I had to guess it is because of the fiverr links and possibly article directories.
            Yeah, that's possible. I consider this latest Google Slap to be a wakeup call and not to rely on seo. I think Google wants everyone to buy their PPC Ads so as to guarantee website on page one.
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            • Profile picture of the author DWolfe
              Originally Posted by zoro View Post

              I think Google wants everyone to buy their PPC Ads so as to guarantee website on page one.
              Yes... than you have to wonder about people who are banned from Adwords. What should we do ?
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              • Profile picture of the author santi
                Good info on your website however I have a couple of questions. You mention that you do not like SENuke. Fair enough. What about Magic Submitter? Also what about a service like Unique Article Wizard? I see many people rank using these two services.
                thanks santiago
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                • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
                  Originally Posted by flightrisk View Post

                  Does this now mean someone could backlink the hell out of a URL and that URL will drop because of so called spammy links?

                  If so then someone could make an lightly optimized site then reverse SEO a competitor then the new will jump ahead of the competitor???

                  What is Google doing?
                  YES... this is exactly what this means. Negative SEO is already in demand now.

                  What people aren't realizing though, is that in theory it sounds good and can work. The reality though, in MY OPINION, is that negative SEO isn't going to work long term because sites backlinks are going to be discredited, not penalized. If you were ranking because of backlinks, and they are now discredited, of course your rank is going away.

                  Anyway, just my opinion on it.. I'm going to test this more in the upcoming weeks on my competitors.


                  Originally Posted by santi View Post

                  Good info on your website however I have a couple of questions. You mention that you do not like SENuke. Fair enough. What about Magic Submitter? Also what about a service like Unique Article Wizard? I see many people rank using these two services.
                  thanks santiago
                  Senuke = no
                  Magic submitter = no
                  UAW = no

                  I don't recommend any of that right now. There are easier and more effective ways to rank than trying to automate it.

                  When you automate, you're going for volume over quality. People using these services since a day or two ago will not see results they like anymore!
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                  • Profile picture of the author mrtrance
                    Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post


                    Senuke = no
                    Magic submitter = no
                    UAW = no

                    I don't recommend any of that right now. There are easier and more effective ways to rank than trying to automate it.

                    When you automate, you're going for volume over quality. People using these services since a day or two ago will not see results they like anymore!
                    So I'm just kinda stuck now on what I need to do with my sites to get rankings back? In the past I did the whole manual backlinking where I wrote articles and submit to Ezine, etc., did a few high PR blog comments on relevant sites, a little social bookmarking, etc.

                    So should we revert back to that and just make sure to heavily diversify our anchor text now?
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                    • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
                      Originally Posted by FormerWageSlave View Post

                      It doesn't look like YouTube has been affected yet. Videos I've SENuked are still holding rank. Anyone finding different?
                      In my opinion... the algorithm is a little different with the way it ranks the videos. I don't think it is the same as the organic searches. I guess time will tell if this is going to bleed through or not.

                      Originally Posted by mrtrance View Post

                      So I'm just kinda stuck now on what I need to do with my sites to get rankings back? In the past I did the whole manual backlinking where I wrote articles and submit to Ezine, etc., did a few high PR blog comments on relevant sites, a little social bookmarking, etc.

                      So should we revert back to that and just make sure to heavily diversify our anchor text now?
                      Web 2.0 properties... wordpress, blogspot, hubpages, squidoo.. try to get your sub domains or pages to be exact match keywords.. not only will those build up link juice but they are looking like they rank much easier now too.

                      Relevant forums and blogs with low out bound links look like it will help.

                      100% manual back link building is ideal now I think. If you want to automate or outsource spammy links, do so on your 2nd or 3rd tier websites that are in your off page network.
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                      • Profile picture of the author mrtrance
                        Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

                        In my opinion... the algorithm is a little different with the way it ranks the videos. I don't think it is the same as the organic searches. I guess time will tell if this is going to bleed through or not.



                        Web 2.0 properties... wordpress, blogspot, hubpages, squidoo.. try to get your sub domains or pages to be exact match keywords.. not only will those build up link juice but they are looking like they rank much easier now too.

                        Relevant forums and blogs with low out bound links look like it will help.

                        100% manual back link building is ideal now I think. If you want to automate or outsource spammy links, do so on your 2nd or 3rd tier websites that are in your off page network.
                        Thanks for the info.

                        So your saying setup some Web2.0 sites like "http://keyword.wordpress.com, http:// keywordnow.blogspot.com, etc.." add unique content to these and have a link point back to my site with my anchor text I want to rank or a variation of it correct?

                        Just wondering if it will look obvious having my keyword or variation of it in the domain names of these sites? Or maybe I should just keep it very general keyword within that niche and not so obvious like my exact keyword?

                        So then setup a few of these (do you recommend a certain #?) and then build these up with either more posts and backlinks to these sites. Do a bit of forum and relevant blog commenting and hopefully things will change for the better.

                        On a final note what do you think about my onpage structure? Right now these sites have like 10-15 pages of unique content, each page optimized for 1 keyword with LSI mixed in there, keyword in title (this would be the H1 as well), in first and last paragraph, bolded once, and 2 more times in the content. 500+ words for each article. 1 link using that pages keyword as anchor text going back to homepage url. A few images in the post with keyword as alt tag. A youtube video at the bottom of each post.

                        Any suggestions here?
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                        • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
                          Originally Posted by mrtrance View Post

                          Thanks for the info.

                          So your saying setup some Web2.0 sites like "http://keyword.wordpress.com, http:// keywordnow.blogspot.com, etc.." add unique content to these and have a link point back to my site with my anchor text I want to rank or a variation of it correct?

                          Yes.. that is what I would recommend. Backlink to those using any questionable method just for safety. Remember, the more link juice you have on your off page network, the more link juice your main site receives. Meanwhile... while you're gaining link strength, your satellite sites will rank, or should.

                          Just wondering if it will look obvious having my keyword or variation of it in the domain names of these sites? Or maybe I should just keep it very general keyword within that niche and not so obvious like my exact keyword?

                          Exact matches seem to work just fine for me, but sometimes they're taken. You may end up needing to add a word to it or make it a longer tail keyword.

                          So then setup a few of these (do you recommend a certain #?) and then build these up with either more posts and backlinks to these sites. Do a bit of forum and relevant blog commenting and hopefully things will change for the better.

                          I use a link pushing method for more competitive keywords that are really difficult to rank for. 5 is usually good for starters, increase as you wish. It's a trial and error basis, you adjust depending on what is working and what isn't working.

                          On a final note what do you think about my onpage structure? Right now these sites have like 10-15 pages of unique content, each page optimized for 1 keyword with LSI mixed in there, keyword in title (this would be the H1 as well), in first and last paragraph, bolded once, and 2 more times in the content. 500+ words for each article. 1 link using that pages keyword as anchor text going back to homepage url. A few images in the post with keyword as alt tag. A youtube video at the bottom of each post.

                          Are you ranking these sites now? Unique content is great... Keyword in title is great, keyword in h1 is great but make sure you have h2's in there too. Forget the bolding... what is your keyword density? Keep it under 2.5%. Add the video towards the top of the post not the bottom.

                          Any suggestions here?
                          response in bold..

                          Also.. definitely diversify your anchor text and pages. Add some links that are just your http://sitename .com
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                  • Profile picture of the author Fernando Veloso
                    Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

                    YES... this is exactly what this means. Negative SEO is already in demand now.

                    What people aren't realizing though, is that in theory it sounds good and can work. The reality though, in MY OPINION, is that negative SEO isn't going to work long term because sites backlinks are going to be discredited, not penalized. If you were ranking because of backlinks, and they are now discredited, of course your rank is going away.

                    Anyway, just my opinion on it.. I'm going to test this more in the upcoming weeks on my competitors.
                    As usual, next update will close that gap.

                    So what happened before, will have less relevancy in future - as usual in Google.

                    Problem is: they definitely did a "reset" update. Like cleaning the house by dragging everything OUT and just keeping the good old piano and furniture from mom and dad (big brands in serp's now).

                    Million dollar question is:

                    What WILL work next update?

                    Cause in the end, the lucky guys will be the ones doing NOW what Google will push to the top in NEXT update...

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                    People make good money selling to the rich. But the rich got rich selling to the masses.
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              • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
                Originally Posted by DWolfe View Post

                Yes... than you have to wonder about people who are banned from Adwords. What should we do ?
                Just because you're banned on google doesn't mean you can't use yahoo and bing, along with facebook PPC. Look into that!
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          • Profile picture of the author mrtrance
            Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

            Fiverr high PR links are not high pr links. They are no pr links on high pr domains on pages with high OBL and spam. If I had to guess it is because of the fiverr links and possibly article directories.
            So is this algo really about backlinks or on page factors? Others seem to think it is 90% on page with recent hit?

            I am starting to think that the on page factor might be playing a bigger role since my SEO website that I target for "City SEO" and "SEO city" (which does not have any Places listings for those keywords) did not change as well as a client site that is targeting general 2 word keywords for their business.

            Both of these sites I employed the same backlinks as my sites that took a dive, but the only difference is these two did not have Clickbump theme and Adsense setup. So based on these findings I am leaning that maybe my drop was more to due with how my on page setup was since even for sites that did use a different theme, but employed same tactics as far as keyword density, using it in first paragraph, last, bolding, underlining,etc.

            What do you guys think?
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        • Profile picture of the author kthor
          Originally Posted by zoro View Post

          Sure. Just basic on-page SEO, then matching domain name + city, press release, video, forum posts, Fiverr High PR Links, article directories, and original content.
          had KW's on page 1 for 6 years and suddenly gone, content rich but a little backlink Anchor text over optimzed ... and looking at the websites who replaced me, adjusting to hopefully get those KW's back to p1

          sux
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  • Thanks For Share Information



    Thanks And Regard
    Website Design Melbourne
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  • Profile picture of the author DianaHeuser
    ImNameless,

    This is a really newbie question. It's my new focus area of learning but what is a profile link?

    Di
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    • Profile picture of the author electronik69
      Originally Posted by DianaHeuser View Post

      ImNameless,

      This is a really newbie question. It's my new focus area of learning but what is a profile link?

      Di
      A profile link quite simply is where you go onto a forum or similar site create a profile and then optimise the profile just for a keyword.

      If you have ever heard of xRumer these guys have made a pretty big business out of it.

      Thanks IamNameless,

      Great post some of the stuff I never knew like having a language tag.

      Would you recommend any guides for social media for SEO?
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  • Profile picture of the author sloanjim
    give up on SEO you are going to chase your tail all the way to your grave!
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    • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
      Originally Posted by mrtrance View Post

      So is this algo really about backlinks or on page factors? Others seem to think it is 90% on page with recent hit?

      I am starting to think that the on page factor might be playing a bigger role since my SEO website that I target for "City SEO" and "SEO city" (which does not have any Places listings for those keywords) did not change as well as a client site that is targeting general 2 word keywords for their business.

      Both of these sites I employed the same backlinks as my sites that took a dive, but the only difference is these two did not have Clickbump theme and Adsense setup. So based on these findings I am leaning that maybe my drop was more to due with how my on page setup was since even for sites that did use a different theme, but employed same tactics as far as keyword density, using it in first paragraph, last, bolding, underlining,etc.

      What do you guys think?
      It has nothing to do with what theme you use. If you were using adsense on sites that got hit, maybe you had too many ads. Is it possible you had a high bounce rate on those sites? Are you using analytics, and webmaster tools? let us know..

      Do you have your address on your city based sites?

      There are definitely on page and off page factors for this update. It is definitely a bigger update than Google has let on.

      Originally Posted by electronik69 View Post

      A profile link quite simply is where you go onto a forum or similar site create a profile and then optimise the profile just for a keyword.

      If you have ever heard of xRumer these guys have made a pretty big business out of it.

      Thanks IamNameless,

      Great post some of the stuff I never knew like having a language tag.

      Would you recommend any guides for social media for SEO?
      Hmm, I'm not sure... I know Daniel Tan has one or at least some kind of software to evaluate and check your social signals but I don't think he really guides you to how to really build it up.

      This is one of the trickier things... The reason it's tricky is because there are now two ways you can direct your social media marketing. One way is to use it for SEO and another way is for building your brand and really develop a following. I'd recommend focusing on building up your social media following in a natural way, offer value to your followers, and in time that will help your SEO. You don't want to start off with 10 likes and end up with 100,000 the next day, unless you REALLY went viral. People purchasing likes isn't helping. It isn't helping because they are false accounts and even if you get an extra boost on one metric you don't gain any real value.

      Don't buy +1's... Google's own network.. It isn't wise to buy +1's, it will just scream spam and won't help at all.

      What google likes to see, is good marketing. Your backlink and social media campaigns should be about one thing and one thing only. TRAFFIC! Focus on that, and you will be fine.

      Originally Posted by sloanjim View Post

      give up on SEO you are going to chase your tail all the way to your grave!
      That's what people have been saying for years. If I believed that, I would be missing out on a lot of money every week. My clients would be missing out on a ton of money. My first client wouldn't have went from 2,000/mo to 36k/mo with his ecommerce website if it weren't for SEO.

      I stay ahead of changes, it may sounds strange and impossible but I've survived every change and update for the past 2-3 years.

      SEO is part of a marketing plan... Just because SEO is difficult and changes doesn't mean to give up. Last time I checked marketing needs to be adjusted from time to time and optimized for results based on what the client needs, right? SEO is the same thing.
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      • Profile picture of the author mrtrance
        Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

        It has nothing to do with what theme you use. If you were using adsense on sites that got hit, maybe you had too many ads. Is it possible you had a high bounce rate on those sites? Are you using analytics, and webmaster tools? let us know..

        Do you have your address on your city based sites?

        There are definitely on page and off page factors for this update. It is definitely a bigger update than Google has let on.
        Well I only have 1 336x280 ad on top on each site. Not using analytics or webmaster tools.

        But the bounce rate maybe an issue that I did not consider before. I think bounce rate on these sites are like in the 70%- 80% range since these are simple Adsense sites where people come to read a bit and click on the ads to get more information. I have added a Youtube video to the homepage of each to maybe decrease the bounce rate.

        Now my question is that these sites are made for people to take in quick information and move on to click ads how do we decrease the bounce rate? Any suggestions on how to keep people on the site longer and also maintain the Adsense CTR high as well?
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  • Profile picture of the author wilder1047
    As for Google Analytics harming rankings, I have 3 client sites with Google Analytics and two of them are actually ranking better then before (they both have zero SEO done) and the third has held it's position in the top 5 for the 3 targeted keywords.

    Has anyone else found differently? I'm about to load Analytics on another clients site so I can run Adwords...
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  • Profile picture of the author wilder1047
    Site 1:

    Pages/Visit: 4.60

    Avg. Visit Duration: 00:03:00

    Bounce Rate: 37.69%

    % New Visits: 64.71%

    Site 2: Majority of traffic coming from Adwords

    Pages/Visit: 2.41

    Avg. Visit Duration: 00:02:10

    Bounce Rate: 52.27%

    % New Visits: 55.68%

    Site 3:

    Pages/Visit: 3.92

    Avg. Visit Duration: 00:03:22

    Bounce Rate: 38.08%

    % New Visits: 72.97%
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    • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
      Originally Posted by wilder1047 View Post

      Site 1:

      Pages/Visit: 4.60

      Avg. Visit Duration: 00:03:00

      Bounce Rate: 37.69%

      % New Visits: 64.71%

      Site 2: Majority of traffic coming from Adwords

      Pages/Visit: 2.41

      Avg. Visit Duration: 00:02:10

      Bounce Rate: 52.27%

      % New Visits: 55.68%

      Site 3:

      Pages/Visit: 3.92

      Avg. Visit Duration: 00:03:22

      Bounce Rate: 38.08%

      % New Visits: 72.97%
      So did site 1, and 3 jump up in position and site 2 hold the same spots?

      That would make sense from the user behavior standpoint.

      The sites I have noticed that take a hit are above 60% bounce rate. Avg time on site, I haven't been able to put that together.

      Whether GA has anything to do with it or not I dunno.. I suspect, if it does, you need to have good avg time on site and lower bounce rate. It looks like what you have is all good. If bounce rate has been given more power then I would assume the sites that have gone up in rank are 1, and 3. Of course, there can be soooooo many more factors it's going to be next to impossible to tell except on my own websites.
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  • Profile picture of the author flightrisk
    Does this now mean someone could backlink the hell out of a URL and that URL will drop because of so called spammy links?

    If so then someone could make an lightly optimized site then reverse SEO a competitor then the new will jump ahead of the competitor???

    What is Google doing?
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    • Profile picture of the author qwqw
      Originally Posted by flightrisk View Post

      Does this now mean someone could backlink the hell out of a URL and that URL will drop because of so called spammy links?

      If so then someone could make an lightly optimized site then reverse SEO a competitor then the new will jump ahead of the competitor???

      What is Google doing?
      Funny thing I I thought the same and was about to post it when I read yours.

      Seriously? Is it the way to bring the competition down these days? If my memory serves correctly google promised never penalize for bad linking just for this simple reason- to eliminate competiton elimination by bad backlinking.
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      • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
        Originally Posted by qwqw View Post

        Funny thing I I thought the same and was about to post it when I read yours.

        Seriously? Is it the way to bring the competition down these days? If my memory serves correctly google promised never penalize for bad linking just for this simple reason- to eliminate competiton elimination by bad backlinking.
        Don't ever believe anything anyone says, or even what google says. Always test things out yourself. Don't take my word for it or anyone elses, only what your results show.

        Whether negative SEO works or not, is yet to be seen, or really proven. In theory it can work now. I tend to believe certain links are not going to be credited, I think it is an added metric in the algorithm, maybe the PR or maybe the ranking algorithm itself.

        It would make sense to think that negative SEO won't exist, only links being discredited as they are crawled.
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  • Profile picture of the author FormerWageSlave
    It doesn't look like YouTube has been affected yet. Videos I've SENuked are still holding rank. Anyone finding different?
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    grrr...

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  • Profile picture of the author zoro
    Checkout what all the SEO experts are saying about this the Google update ... it's not pretty!!

    http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-ppc-seo-discussion-forum/586689-google-algo-change-today.html

    Say goodbye to SEO!!
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    • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
      Originally Posted by zoro View Post

      Checkout what all the SEO experts are saying about this the Google update ... it's not pretty!!

      http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-ppc-seo-discussion-forum/586689-google-algo-change-today.html

      Say goodbye to SEO!!
      Those aren't experts at ALL lol.. The reason the SEO community is in a panic is because of all the myths that are being posted, and taken as fact by the same people you call experts.

      Out of everyone on the SEO side of the forum, maybe 3 or 4 actually know what they're doing, because they actually TEST. They don't follow popular opinion on what works and what doesn't.

      Hell.. even the SEO gurus can't agree on whether nofollow links are beneficial or not.

      Most of these SEO experts don't know anything about 301 redirects, either. LOL!

      I just wish people would actually test their own theories, and see what really works, what is hype, what is a myth and what is downright ignorant.

      SEO isn't going bye bye... only the people who are not students of their industry are going bye bye.

      Just like all algorithm updates, SEO will always be around. It isn't dead, it is changing. You either adapt or you go out of business. That is the name of the game, the rules of the road, either you play along or you don't play at all.

      In a couple months everything is going to be fine again.
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  • Profile picture of the author zoro
    iAmNameLess That might be all well for you, and good luck to you. My clients are screaming, and I'm almost certain some will cancel my services. They are losing money bigtime! A lot of business could go out of business because of this latest Google Slap.
    SEO sucks!
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    • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
      Originally Posted by zoro View Post

      iAmNameLess That might be all well for you, and good luck to you. My clients are screaming, and I'm almost certain some will cancel my services. They are losing money bigtime! A lot of business could go out of business because of this latest Google Slap.
      SEO sucks!
      Why would they go out of business? A business that exists only because of SEO had to start somewhere, when they weren't ranking, know what I mean?

      I guess it is a good example of why you shouldn't have all your eggs in one basket. Not to downplay the situation or anything... But SEO will live on and people will need to adjust or quit.

      I understand how frustrating it can be to have pissed off clients.. but you can't guarantee rank, you can't guarantee anything and you never should. If someone built their business around google, that really sucks. For the ones that are safe, I'd definitely suggest start planning on using other avenues.

      I love SEO because it is like chess, except possibly more complicated and challenging at times, especially when the rules change!
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    • Profile picture of the author wilder1047
      Originally Posted by zoro View Post

      iAmNameLess That might be all well for you, and good luck to you. My clients are screaming, and I'm almost certain some will cancel my services. They are losing money bigtime! A lot of business could go out of business because of this latest Google Slap.
      SEO sucks!
      Not to beat a dead horse here. But, I think iamnameless has pretty much diagnosed the problem with your clients sites due to your method of buying Fiver High PR links... so if they were a large part as to why your clients sites had gained rankings and Google has now given these links ZERO juice, you can be sure that's what has caused your sites to crash.

      Just gotta pick up and keep going.

      For the most part, it doesn't seem like websites that gained their rankings honestly have really been harmed. It could really just be a step in a more legitimate direction.

      After iamnameless`s ever so subtle ways of telling people they`re idiots and don`t know anything about anything, in this case SEO.

      I decided to goto SEOMoz and learn SEO from the very roots...

      SEO: The Free Beginner?s Guide From SEOmoz

      I`ve definitely learned some stuff, which isn`t saying much, but it can`t hurt to take a look...
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      • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
        Originally Posted by wilder1047 View Post

        Not to beat a dead horse here. But, I think iamnameless has pretty much diagnosed the problem with your clients sites due to your method of buying Fiver High PR links... so if they were a large part as to why your clients sites had gained rankings and Google has now given these links ZERO juice, you can be sure that's what has caused your sites to crash.

        Just gotta pick up and keep going.

        For the most part, it doesn't seem like websites that gained their rankings honestly have really been harmed. It could really just be a step in a more legitimate direction.

        After iamnameless`s ever so subtle ways of telling people they`re idiots and don`t know anything about anything, in this case SEO.

        I decided to goto SEOMoz and learn SEO from the very roots...

        SEO: The Free Beginner?s Guide From SEOmoz

        I`ve definitely learned some stuff, which isn`t saying much, but it can`t hurt to take a look...
        http://www.google.com/webmasters/doc...rter-guide.pdf

        Even better... Google's own starter guide for SEO. You would be surprised how many people do not follow that.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jerry McGough
      For what it's worth....

      Out of curiosity, I went down to the SEO section to see what was being said.....which is pretty ugly and makes little sense.....like a #1position with a blank page.

      Anyhows, Jonathan Leger posted that a guy in his forum, who once worked for Google, contacted some old office mates to see what the hell was going on.
      He was told that Google is also pissed and working to gets some things straightened out.

      So, before making wholesale changes, you might want to wait a bit for an update to see if things get sorted out.
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  • Profile picture of the author tomek
    Thanks for the contribution OP. I got few questions as I see you're pretty good at seo.

    What do you think about such strategy:

    Building one web 2.0 property a day with e.g 3 unique content. Every post will have 2 links to inner pages of one domain (money site) and then blasting it using old methods like wikis, amr, senuke, them 3 tire xrumer and scrapebox. Do you think it will work after update or make some corrections please.

    I'm also wondering is it safe to make such properties and then linking e.g 6 inner pages or should I only link just main domain?
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    • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
      Originally Posted by tomek View Post

      Thanks for the contribution OP. I got few questions as I see you're pretty good at seo.

      What do you think about such strategy:

      Building one web 2.0 property a day with e.g 3 unique content. Every post will have 2 links to inner pages of one domain (money site) and then blasting it using old methods like wikis, amr, senuke, them 3 tire xrumer and scrapebox. Do you think it will work after update or make some corrections please.

      I'm also wondering is it safe to make such properties and then linking e.g 6 inner pages or should I only link just main domain?
      I would completely ignore amr, and senuke, xrumer and scrapebox for now.. I think you would be leaving too big of a footprint with that strategy.

      Consistent backlink building is a great thing. I guarantee if you spend 15 minutes a day looking for related websites, and only building one link a day you would be in better shape than using that strategy.

      Blog entries, web 2.0 properties, blog comments that are not link farms, networking within your niche, are ways to go. VIDEO is a great way to go..

      The MAIN issue you will have with your strategy, is all the pages you are wanting to link. You have to diversify the type of backlinks, the anchor text, the page it goes to and the source of the backlink. Having a web 2.0 property with unique content and two links with different anchors to diferent areas of the website would be fine... IF you didn't blast it with links.

      You can pretty easily get any website you want, a PR3 or more just with a couple quality links. You can spam out 50,000 xrumer links and not even get a PR1.

      What it comes down to google wanting to see, is this... They want you to market your website. They want you to have content and links on sites relevant to your ideal visitor. Profile links, spun content with links, mass submitted links aren't ideal because it isn't what your visitors want.

      That is the way to stay ahead of the game... Avoid all slaps and penalties, by properly marketing your website. Every backlink you build should be built purely for referral traffic.

      If you would like to use xrumer and senuke, scrapebox and all the pieces of software you have.. you can.. use it on video. It appears this hasn't effected youtube yet, and it might not ever effect it!

      When changes like this happen.. it's important to think about your strategy and make sure it isn't trying to game the search engines. You can cut corners later on once you figure out what can be done for sure and what can't.
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  • Profile picture of the author p3durungan
    google as part of internet surely will change from time to time, because human society also change their routine not to mention internet marketer absolutely has great impact to those routine
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  • Profile picture of the author rbecklund
    I've been analyzing the competition for some of my client sites for fairly tough local terms. The competitors are #1, #2 in google. This is across 3 competitive niches. With million population in our metro area - so not easy...

    Of course 75% of their links are low and ok quality directories, blog comments, paid links etc. With about 20% web 2.0 sites and blogs pointing back to their sites, and 5% are real backlinks.

    So while things change, they do stay the same. I wonder what effect this really has on local, because in many instances you don't have to do a lot of work to get low competition keywords to rank. So you don't have to create lots of backlinks.

    Maybe it is just a thing where they are looking for what they said, keyword stuffing and links that have anchor text that doesn't make sense in the content.

    It's really great that you are taking the time to dig into this AND share what you're finding! Thanks!
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    • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
      Originally Posted by rbecklund View Post

      I've been analyzing the competition for some of my client sites for fairly tough local terms. The competitors are #1, #2 in google. This is across 3 competitive niches. With million population in our metro area - so not easy...

      Of course 75% of their links are low and ok quality directories, blog comments, paid links etc. With about 20% web 2.0 sites and blogs pointing back to their sites, and 5% are real backlinks.

      So while things change, they do stay the same. I wonder what effect this really has on local, because in many instances you don't have to do a lot of work to get low competition keywords to rank. So you don't have to create lots of backlinks.

      Maybe it is just a thing where they are looking for what they said, keyword stuffing and links that have anchor text that doesn't make sense in the content.

      It's really great that you are taking the time to dig into this AND share what you're finding! Thanks!
      Are they ranking organically or in google places?

      Google places and videos are not effected by this update... I don't know if they will be or not, only time will tell.

      What are you using to look at the links?
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      • Profile picture of the author rbecklund
        Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

        Are they ranking organically or in google places?

        Google places and videos are not effected by this update... I don't know if they will be or not, only time will tell.

        What are you using to look at the links?
        They are ranking organically above or below Google places. I used Market Samurai, which uses Majestic SEO for it's backlink data.
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        • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
          Originally Posted by rbecklund View Post

          I've been analyzing the competition for some of my client sites for fairly tough local terms. The competitors are #1, #2 in google. This is across 3 competitive niches. With million population in our metro area - so not easy...

          Of course 75% of their links are low and ok quality directories, blog comments, paid links etc. With about 20% web 2.0 sites and blogs pointing back to their sites, and 5% are real backlinks.

          So while things change, they do stay the same. I wonder what effect this really has on local, because in many instances you don't have to do a lot of work to get low competition keywords to rank. So you don't have to create lots of backlinks.

          Maybe it is just a thing where they are looking for what they said, keyword stuffing and links that have anchor text that doesn't make sense in the content.

          It's really great that you are taking the time to dig into this AND share what you're finding! Thanks!
          Originally Posted by rbecklund View Post

          They are ranking organically above or below Google places. I used Market Samurai, which uses Majestic SEO for it's backlink data.
          Interesting.. Would you be willing to PM me the links and keywords so I can look into it?

          You mentioned some are low quality directories. What do you mean by that? If it is a generic business listing directory, there really is no such thing as low quality, since it is basically just a database. Google is fine with 99% of directories.

          You also said web 2.0 and blogs... these are great, and I think they're still great, depending on what you consider web 2.0. Are they using unique content on these or what?

          After some more testing, I know these changes have definitely effected local searches in terms of organic.. nothing on google places, but all organic searches, definitely.
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  • Profile picture of the author wilder1047
    Hey nameless, I know you're saying video SEO is a different algo. and it's perhaps not effected by what's going on.

    But, take a look at this...

    Video Marketing

    The video Cleveland Video Marketing is only 20 something hours old, very little views for all the videos on the channel and only one sub...

    Do you know much about video SEO? Are you able to dissect it?
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    • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
      Originally Posted by wilder1047 View Post

      Hey nameless, I know you're saying video SEO is a different algo. and it's perhaps not effected by what's going on.

      But, take a look at this...

      Video Marketing

      The video Cleveland Video Marketing is only 20 something hours old, very little views for all the videos on the channel and only one sub...

      Do you know much about video SEO? Are you able to dissect it?
      SEO for videos is very basic and primitive. If you truly look at it and compare to others you can tell WHY it ranks above. For those keywords it ranks because it's better optimized. Keyword in the title, description, in the title twice actually... Views or plays in my opinion, DO play a role in the ranking, but old school text book SEO is applicable for videos. Title.. descriptions, tags, and annotations play the biggest role. Next I would say is links, embeds, shares, adding to channels, and plays.

      I think it's pulling that video because it is the most relevant when you compare the tags.
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  • Profile picture of the author zenmack
    Thanks Iamnameless for this post. Every educational.
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    • Profile picture of the author JBroyer44
      The google webmaster and google analytics effect scares me.
      All my sites have this.

      The one thing that is scaring me is my company website Swimming Pool Service and Construction Amesbury Massachusetts has a high bounce rate lately. I think it has to do with the crappy Godaddy server being slow. The high bounce rates come on my blog articles which are ver informative for pool owners and answers the questions posed in the search queries accuratley and usually in detail.

      I have not lost any serps rankings and my traffic is holding steady, but still worried about that high bounce rate.

      I think I may finally have to move this site over to hostgator dedicated, I just hate doing that especially in the middle of the pool season if anything goes wrong. :confused:

      On another note, I did lose half of my amazon review sites. About 2 weeks ago I saw the drop in traffic being sent to amazon, check serps on a few sites and they were nowhere to be found. - there goes that project!
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      • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
        Originally Posted by JBroyer44 View Post

        The google webmaster and google analytics effect scares me.
        All my sites have this.

        The one thing that is scaring me is my company website Swimming Pool Service and Construction Amesbury Massachusetts has a high bounce rate lately. I think it has to do with the crappy Godaddy server being slow. The high bounce rates come on my blog articles which are ver informative for pool owners and answers the questions posed in the search queries accuratley and usually in detail.

        I have not lost any serps rankings and my traffic is holding steady, but still worried about that high bounce rate.

        I think I may finally have to move this site over to hostgator dedicated, I just hate doing that especially in the middle of the pool season if anything goes wrong. :confused:

        On another note, I did lose half of my amazon review sites. About 2 weeks ago I saw the drop in traffic being sent to amazon, check serps on a few sites and they were nowhere to be found. - there goes that project!

        Hmmm.. what is your bounce rate? What is your average time on site as well? Maybe include a video on the home page above the fold to increase the time on site. That way even if you have a higher bounce rate at least Google thinks people are coming and getting what they need, then leaving.. instead of coming and 15 seconds late leaving.

        Something I noticed in one of my case studies is that a website with 6% density was ranking for a highly competitive term that brings over 1 million searches a month.

        It seems that google is overlooking keyword density as long as their are hundreds of pages that are relevant to your keywords.

        I also noticed one of my EMD's just jumped up to #8... which the content has nothing relevant to the niche except title tags, domain, and metas.
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        • Profile picture of the author JBroyer44
          Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

          Hmmm.. what is your bounce rate? What is your average time on site as well? Maybe include a video on the home page above the fold to increase the time on site. That way even if you have a higher bounce rate at least Google thinks people are coming and getting what they need, then leaving.. instead of coming and 15 seconds late leaving.

          my home pages and service pages are fine when local people come to the site. The problem is i have tons of blog posts. A lot of these blog posts rank very high for popular long tail keywords. The problem is everyone bounces on that page with hardly any time on site. This throws my sitewide bounce rate to 70% the last 30 days:

          refer to attached screenshot:
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  • Profile picture of the author JBroyer44
    Something worth noting that I saw today. We recently added hot tubs to our retail store. Hot tubs in this area are very competitive so I made a page "hot tubs Massachusetts" tried to rank it for "hot tubs MA" .

    On page seo and all my backlink anchor text was for "hot tubs MA" i had that page sitting on top of page 2 (it is fairly new less than 60days old) after penguin t is no where to be found.

    However my home page which used to not rank for that term has now jumped to middle of page 2. The only on page seo for that keyword term is an alt tag and the word 'hot tubs' and 'massachusetts' which are separated a bit on the page. There are 0 backlinks pointing to my homepage that have any hot tub anchor text.

    i thought that was an interesting case as my actual hot tub page which was backlinked like crazy with anchor text links from link pyramids and such dissappeared.
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