Offliners- 2 Honest Questions - Okay, well maybe three technically. | Warrior Forum - The #1 Digital Marketing Forum & Marketplace

econnors

13 years ago

I would say no to all three questions. Easy enough. :-)

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John Durham

13 years ago

Another question...

Do you think that a person who believes its impossible to make a single sale of $100 per day, really has what it takes to be an offliner anyway?

This is for my personal research.

I want to know what you think.

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sandalwood

13 years ago

Originally Posted by John Durham

Another question...

Do you think that a person who believes its impossible to make a single sale of $100 per day, really has what it takes to be an offliner anyway?

This is for my personal research.

I want to know what you think.

John,

Do you think they could get a full time job? Well they can't make any money offlining either. If you think you can't, you can't. Some car said that or something like it as he was driving down America's highways looking for a six inch wide steel beam :-)

You're doing some heavy research there brother. Slow down and smell the coffee. We need you to keep posting here.

Tom

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sandalwood

13 years ago

On question 1, I had to do that to enlist in the Air Force back in 1963. Never got the $100 though...

Ques 2, in a heartbeat. We both do it everyday we drive on America's highways and there ain't no million dollars at the end of the drive.

Sorta kinda ques 3, of course, that is at what they value their time. Money is time and time is money and we each value it differently.

BTW, you can paypal me the $100 and I'll walk the plank when I'm in your neck of the woods :-)

Tom

Originally Posted by John Durham

1: If I dared you to walk across a six inch wide steel beam ,for $100, that was 30 feet long , stretched 200 hundred feet in the air between two buildings....would you do it?

Now,

2: If I told you there was a million dollars on the other side, that was yours...Would you do it?

However cliche, these are real questions...

Personally on number one- I'd not entertain the thought for a second. The answer is "No."

On number two - I have to be thinking about it real hard at least.

Another interesting question- Can you imagine people do that all day long for $25.00 per hour or less?

Making a few phone calls isnt really that scary when you think of it!

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John Durham

13 years ago

Originally Posted by sandalwood

On question 1, I had to do that to enlist in the Air Force back in 1963. Never got the $100 though...

Ques 2, in a heartbeat. We both do it everyday we drive on America's highways and there ain't no million dollars at the end of the drive.

Sorta kinda ques 3, of course, that is at what they value their time. Money is time and time is money and we each value it differently.

BTW, you can paypal me the $100 and I'll walk the plank when I'm in your neck of the woods :-)

Tom

When I first lost my songwriting deal in 98 or so, I was loooooost....

After a month of depression, I decided i was going to get a brick laying job and be like those guys in all those "workin man songs" I had written. I figured I could write even better songs...

Wasnt a stranger to it from my upbringing...

Anyway, I did it for about a month then I watched a block fall from 100 feet onto a kid who was pushing a wheelbarrel full of mud, and it almost broke his back, there was an ambulance...

And I thought, "Im worth nothing to my family dead....", so I went and got a job in Bowers call center.

Thanks
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sandalwood

13 years ago

Originally Posted by John Durham

When I first lost my songwriting deal in 98 or so, I was loooooost....

After a month of depression, I decided i was going to get a brick laying job and be like those guys in all those "workin man songs" I had written. I figured I could write even better songs...

Wasnt a stranger to it from my upbringing...

Anyway, I did it for about a month then I watched a block fall from 100 feet onto a kid who was pushing a wheelbarrel full of mud, and it almost broke his back, there was an ambulance...

And I thought, "Im worth nothing to my family dead....", so I went and got a job in Bowers call center.

The funny part about being on active duty in the 60's and 70's was, dollar wise, you were worth more to your family dead. Uncle Sam's actuaries knew how to work the numbers.

But, you are correct. You are worth more to your family alive than dead. I saw a lot flag draped caskets and when I got commissioned, was the burial officer on a few of the details. Hard stuff. Kinda like getting hit w/a brick from 100 feet above.

Hence, back to your original remark about picking up a phone. What the hell is so hard about that? It can't bury you, isn't a widow w/three kids staring at you and can't possibly hit you from the desk.

Perspective is everything, isn't it?

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sdentrepreneur

13 years ago

I prefer to use Attraction Marketing and have the business owner walk across the steel bar to hand me money to manage/consult on his business marketing. :-P

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John Durham

13 years ago

Originally Posted by sdentrepreneur

I prefer to use Attraction Marketing and have the business owner walk across the steel bar to hand me money to manage/consult on his business marketing. :-P

Now thats deep! That was worth this whole thread!

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mojo1

13 years ago

Originally Posted by sdentrepreneur

I prefer to use Attraction Marketing and have the business owner walk across the steel bar to hand me money to manage/consult on his business marketing. :-P

This is such an interesting comment. Attraction Marketing also has a variety of meanings depending upon who the spin master is.

Attraction Marketing to me at least is when I cold call a business owner and he's been thinking about what I have to offer all day and my call is just what he needed when he needed it.

In essence, he attracted my phone call and manifested it into the physical whereby my solution singularly occupied his thoughts for many days if not weeks prior to our conversation but somehow he just never got around to it.

Just another way to look at the same concept.

Certain authors or groups seem to fanatically hijack a concept to serve their purpose.

Yet no one concept can be contained or anchored with a singular definition at the expense of other possibilities.

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Stranger Danger

13 years ago

Due to OSHA regulations,

there would/should be safety cable holes drilled in to the column webs/flanges, and any iron worker would/should have a harness attachment that straps to that cable for safety purposes.

That said, however, some iron workers will still take shortcuts - and some erectors/contractors get fined quite heavily if any of their guys get caught!

But, to answer your question...I'd walk across for $1 million - without a safety cable (depending on the rules and weather conditions etc.). I wouldn't do it for free, though.

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RedShifted

13 years ago

For $1 million I'd put roller blades on and skate across one-legged with a hulahoop around my waist.

I'd most definitely die too.

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John Durham 13 years ago

lol. You guys are hilarious. Its looking like most of us share about the same opinion, although one has said they wouldnt do it no matter what.

Originally Posted by sandalwood

John,

Do you think they could get a full time job? Well they can't make any money offlining either.

Good point. This is the kind of person who wouldnt be able to hold their job in a call center. Nice interjection there.
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Stranger Danger

13 years ago

Sorry for the downer post, John...but I couldn't resist.

I have conversations like this with my brother, jokingly, but it's usually something along the lines of - would you eat a turd for a million dollars?

We're super deep thinkers or something.

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RedShifted

13 years ago

/\ I think the saddest thing about that is actually feeling good when you're thinking about it. Like "oh yeh this turd is gonna taste so bad but that money is going to feel so good sitting in my hands".

How sick. But yeh I'd do that too. The things people will do for money.

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xlfutur1

13 years ago

There is a great documentary on Netflix about the French guy who walked across the World Trade Centers on a tight rope back in 1974.

Very inspiring...the planning, the preparation, everything about it was fascinating. He did it for nothing and got arrested too, but he loved every minute of it. He still can say he was the only human in history to accomplish a feat like that. Check out that documentary and you'll be inspired to do anything no matter how difficult it may seem.

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sudden

13 years ago

Originally Posted by John Durham

1:

Making a few phone calls isnt really that scary when you think of it!

The more I think about this, the more I believe that the primary reason people hate doing it is because don't like spamming. Imagine telling them that it's not illegal to ring people up out of the blue...would they hesitate?

Originally Posted by John Durham

Another question...

Do you think that a person who believes its impossible to make a single sale of $100 per day, really has what it takes to be an offliner anyway?

This is for my personal research.

I want to know what you think.

That person should not be left alone for any length of time.

Cheers.

Joshua

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RedShifted 13 years ago

Originally Posted by sudden

The more I think about this, the more I believe that the primary reason people hate doing it is because don't like spamming.

Thats an excellent point. I think you're probably right. A lot of closed minded people may equate telemarketing to harassing people. Instead of trying to provide a solution to a few people in a larger group.

And if you do it right some of those people you "harass" give you money.
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AussieT

13 years ago

I'd practice walking across the six inch plank on the ground first a hundred times and then do it. Its the same plank just greater risk as the height increase but really no harder.

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John Durham

13 years ago

Originally Posted by AussieT

I's practice walking across the six inch plank on the ground first a hundred times and then do it. Its the same plank just greater risk and the height increase but really no harder.

Many prosperity teachers believe that a $100,000 sale is no harder than a $10,000 one, just depends where you direct the energy.

For instance:

I off-handedly planted a seed on a thread the other day that for 100k I might start a call center for some one

That seed wasnt hard to plant...Just threw it out there into the universal soil...Now someday someone is gonna come across that post at some point and entertain the idea. I will have made a 100k sale as easily as any other online one.

When you plant a seed like that you open up a potential channel for prosperity to flow to you.

Is this attraction marketing?

Originally Posted by Stranger Danger

We're super deep thinkers or something.

JK

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kenmichaels 13 years ago

Originally Posted by John Durham

Now someday someone is gonna come across that post at some point and entertain the idea. I will have made a 100k sale as easily as any other online one.

Not someday, but seriously now for a few days, and ill bet a dollar
i am not the only one.
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- John Durham 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by kenmichaels
  
  Not someday, but seriously now for a few days, and ill bet a dollar
  i am not the only one.
  
  When we plant the seeds we reap the magical harvest. How big of seeds can we dare to plant is the question, what kind, and/or how many?
  
  Where are we planting them?
  
  They all grow.
  
  You have to be the Johnny appleseed of your prosperity orchard.
  
  Every seed you plant on the internet or in print ads or in cold calls, is a potential channel of prosperity that you open up for yourself.
  
  You can ask for anything you want. Doesnt matter.
  
  Huge call center coming at some point or another for me I guess ...lol
  
  ...If I want it at the time still.
  
  The opportunity will arise, because the seed has been planted in good ground. (That has been prepared I might add, by the sower)
  
  In short: You are always creating either on purpose or haphazardly why not choose: "Deliberate Creation".
  
  Another example:
  
  I could plant a seed either on the internet or in a print ad, or in a call list of investors that Im looking for a 50k -100k investor for a big national web directory - And prospects would appear...
  
  Not doing that, but one could.
  
  What do we want to ask for? I love sdentrepreneur's post.
  
  Also Ken,
  
  Being a person who has worked very hard on the warrior forum to achieve a reputation as an authority on my subject, I can also say there is something important about preparing and nurturing the soil as well. But dont know how to define it. You have to really love your field. lol
  
  A guy like you for instance, you want to be the next telemarketing authority? You have the knowledge to be that. Prepare the ground, then ask for a call center... lol. You will probably get it.
  
  You prepare the ground by sharing your knowledge and helping people.
  
  If you wonder what this post is about, its because whether its cold calling or whatever... Im a teacher and I teach what I know, without holding back, and that comes back to me 100 times.
  
  No lack mentality.
  
  I know this, and so Im sharing it for your benefit.
  
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Ashera

13 years ago

Bit off topic, but one of our favorite games in college was "Would you rather..."

Both choices were always horridly disgusting or dangerous.

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Eddie Spangler 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Ashera

Bit off topic, but one of our favorite games in college was "Would you rather..."

Both choices were always horridly disgusting or dangerous.

Family Guy Mashup - Would You Rather - YouTube
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hardraysnight

13 years ago

yes yes no

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Khemosabi

13 years ago

First thing I'd do is post a gig on Fiverr. While I was waiting for someone to respond to the gig, I'd write up a quick WSO about how to turn 5 bucks into a million! (with less than 4 hours of work, and ZERO cold calling!)

TADA!
For all you deep thinkers, DON'T EAT POO! Outsource!

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John Durham

13 years ago

Khemosabi has spoken.

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Bredfan

13 years ago

First, I'm a total chicken. I'm the guy who wouldn't walk the beam for a million $$.

But....

Metaphorically, I walk not just an i-beam, but a tightrope, and I will continue to do so.

Sometimes, I'll do a back hand spring on the tightrope. :-)

I think I'm a lot like many offliners in this regard: Making it for yourself, being the master of your own economic destiny, running your own business - all those things are walking the tightrope.

I got laid off in 2009 and decided then and there to do my own thing. At the time, I had a 2 year old, an infant, a new mortgage, and a new wife.

I could have moved to a different corporate job and made fine money. I had been at the senior manager/director level at a large web services company. Instead, I had the conversation with my wife.... "I've got to try..."

Now, I'm spoiled goods. I could never work for anyone again. After 3 years of building...sales, productizing, contracts, accounts payable, account receivable, account management, keeping clients happy, reporting, and on and on and on.... How could I ever listen to anyone else again? Ha! :-) (See, now I know everything.)

February was a terrible month. Billing for some consulting projects got pushed and a couple key clients dropped off. It sucked. I was walking the tightrope. At the other end of the tightrope I could see 2 completed projects and 2 new clients.

I steadied myself, focused on the goal, walked the tightrope and April has been one of my best months ever.

So....would I physically walk the 6" i-beam? Nope.

But I - and every self-employed offliner - walk the beam every day.

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kenmichaels

13 years ago

John,
I love the way you hammer a point home using analogies.

also...

the "take away" in the middle of the post, was smoooooth

for anyone who missed it "...If I want it at the time still."

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John Durham

13 years ago

@Ken

Takes one to know one.

You probably also know that because of that thread title a person with that interest is 100 times more likely to come across the other post than this one lol. (Details Baybee; know em!)

Either way, wouldnt hurt even if they came across both. The take away os actually 50/50 in reality. Thats alot of work.

But on your noticing...

We ole sales pro's dont get enough credit for being sharp Ken... You learn alot talking to hundreds of people everyday. Good eye. We know the nuances that make all the difference. dont we.

Correction;

Alot of people know em, but a pro "owns" em!

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Charles Harper

13 years ago

I think it takes a willingness to do that if necessary. Ultimately, you want people to come to you based on your position and market reputation. So until you get to that point, you have to have a way or method that works for you of getting in front of these businesses. The more direct the method,less of a strain it is on your time and resources.

CT

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John Durham

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Charles Harper

I think it takes a willingness to do that if necessary. Ultimately, you want people to come to you based on your position and market reputation. So until you get to that point, you have to have a way or method that works for you of getting in front of these businesses. The more direct the method,less of a strain it is on your time and resources.

CT

Im with you Charles, but since this thread is taking a turn toward attraction marketing anyway...

What if...

You hired a bunch of offline affiliates. Brainwashed them to thinking they are working for the most upcoming company on the planet with the most superior product (could be true), and let them go out into a region by 50 or 100 and create your companies myth with those people.

Thats basically what you do with any large sales team anyway.

Then the only thing you would have to earn is your recruits and their faith.

Depending on the types of take aways you set them up with, businesses could be coming to you on your own terms.

Ken makes a good point that alot of doing great sales and business on your own terms is "take ways" - The "I dont need your business, and might not even want it, it depends on some things... but if you jump through hoops... you might be able to book me..."

Later you wont have to think about it like that because in truth, you wont care either way...then no technique is needed because the true energetic shift is there and you have all the leverage. because you really dont need the business.

For instance "Bob, I have only 5 slots open, Im not positive I can even get you in if you "wanted" this...but let me check.... hold on a second.... by the way if I get my boss to say yes, are you going to want to go ahead and fill this slot today...? Okay, cant promise anything, but let me see if we have room for you..."

Let them stew on mute for a minute, then come back and seal your deal with a big "Congratulations Bob!"

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kenmichaels

13 years ago

Originally Posted by John Durham

alot of doing great sales and business on your own terms is "take ways" - The "I dont need your business, and might not even want it, it depends on some things... but if you jump through hoops... you might be able to book me..."

Later you wont have to think about it like that because in truth, you wont care either way...then no technique is needed because the true energetic shift is there and you have all the leverage. because you really dont need it.

For instance "Bob, I have only 5 slots open, Im not positive I caqn get you in but let me check.... hold on a second.... by the way if I get my boss to say yes, do you want to go ahead and sign up today...? If not the slot wont be here tomorrow... Okay let me check and see if we have room for you..."

That should be in its own thread.

I think that is one of the strongest, truest things i have ever read in this forum.

You just cant learn that stuff, other then through the school of hard knocks
and experience.

Also the ones that have mastered it, usually don't share it.

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John Durham

13 years ago

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

That should be in its own thread.

I think that is one of the strongest, truest things i have ever read in this forum.

You just cant learn that stuff, other then through the school of hard knocks
and experience.

Also the ones that have mastered it, usually don't share it.

Interesting that you say you cant learn it except through hard knocks...the way I learned it was that I 'did" it... after a few years of sales kinda naturally (ie; through hard knocks)...and some girl pointed out to me what I was doing and taught me it was a "take away"...

Really? People do this on purpose?

Then it became an art form lol.

Have included it pitches for others and it worked though...

Im sharing it and you are because we are abundant and dont think in lack. We dont lose anything by teaching others everything we know...

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kenmichaels

13 years ago

Originally Posted by John Durham

Interesting that you say you cant learn it except through hard knocks...the way I learned it was that I 'did" it... after a few years of sales kinda naturally...and some girl pointed out to me what I was doing and taught me it was a "take away"...

Really? People do this on purpose?

Then it became an art form lol.

Have included it pitches for others and it worked though...

Well i learned sales takeaways early on in my career....

But you crossed over into real world takeaways .... when you mentioned

"""I dont need your business, and might not even want it, it depends on some things... but if you jump through hoops... you might be able to book me..."""

That is something it took me a while to catch on about... the power of it i mean.

I got lucky and found out. I started producing infomercial quality leads, at about a quarter of the going rate at the time. Everyone wanted them, and i mean everyone.

and of course i could only produce so much.

The more i said "no", the more i said, "we will see" the crazier the offers got.
It was a real eye opener, and a lesson i have never forgotten.

P.S. leave it to you, to get a deep discussion going on a weekend

edit--
had to comment on this

We dont lose anything by teaching others everything we know..."

Your right we don't. For the most part i know i am not a good teacher,
and i am "ok" with that ( cant be good at everything .. right )

but i do like helping, when i can.

if someone did not help me, i never ever would have been in sales,
my life would have been completely different.

Sales changed my life, and when i see people making that first step
...like i did, i root for them.... i cant help it.

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John Durham

13 years ago

I have 2 interests, my passions and my kids... so I could go on forever. The more I talk about my passion the more it becomes intertwined with my work ... so its just a big passionate experience...

The more you tell people about your dreams the more people dream them with you. The more people you ask for sales everyday, the more sales you get...

This post of yours is excellent. I almost hesitate to post after it because it could lead to such great understanding for someone, so here it goes:

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

Well i learned sales takeaways early on in my career....

But you crossed over into real world takeaways .... when you mentioned

"""I dont need your business, and might not even want it, it depends on some things... but if you jump through hoops... you might be able to book me..."""

That is something it took me a while to catch on about... the power of it i mean.

I got lucky and found out. I started producing infomercial quality leads, at about a quarter of the going rate at the time. Everyone wanted them, and i mean everyone.

and of course i could only produce so much.

The more i said "no", the more i said, "we will see" the crazier the offers got.
It was a real eye opener, and a lesson i have never forgotten.

P.S. leave it to you, to get a deep discussion going on a weekend

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Jason Kanigan

13 years ago

I hate heights. I'd much, much MUCH rather call for 8 hours than walk across that narrow beam. I can't get hurt on a sales call.

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John Durham 13 years ago

Originally Posted by kaniganj

I hate heights. I'd much, much MUCH rather call for 8 hours than walk across that narrow beam. I can't get hurt on a sales call.

Like Tom said, (paraphrase) "The phone aint gonna hit you in the face with a brick..." lol

Ps. Ken , you should start a thread on take aways if its something you feel strongly about.
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InTh3Moment

13 years ago

John and Ken,

Thank you guys so much! This thread has changed my thinking about sales. I first started getting in deep yesterday (came across the Jobless Dad post and have been basically reading nonstop since) and I'm getting set up to make the calls starting tomorrow. Now this will help me a lot as when an owner asks if I or anyone I know can help them with marketing, I can say, "Yes I know a thing or two

and I'm helping other businesses right now so I'm not sure if I have much room for any more clients at the moment."

Is there anything else I can add or change to this to help close? Thanks again for the inspiring thread everyone!

Thanks

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