I'm thinking about QUITTING SEO!

41 replies
I've been in the SEO world for several years now and it has become an every day constant fight to stay on top.

I don't mind fighting competition for top placement. I expect it.

However, I'm sick and tired of fighting Google to stay on top! In the last 6 months, I've had several local sites fall to page 2 no matter what I do to push them up. In fact, I push them up to page 1 and a few days later, they've already fallen back down. I don't like it and my customers sure as heck don't like it.

It's even more frustrating that the keywords I'm targeting have extremely low competition to moderately low competition. In my mind, it should be easy to rank for the low competition keywords, but I'm not getting anywhere them to really speak of. When I do move them to page one, I've not been able to make them stick or find a way to keep them there.

The on-page SEO that I implement is solid. I have regular optimized posts going out. I even found a guy here on WF that has been an absolute Wizard at moving sites up in rank when I hit a brick wall. Now, even what he's doing isn't penetrating Google.

I've bought and implemented several WSOs on new SEO strategies and none of them work like the sales copy says they do.

I'm at a loss with SEO and not sure I have the 'umph' left in me to keep researching and looking for answers.:confused::confused::confused:

I'm really close to abandoning it all together and reverting back to mobile site building, SMS marketing, and website design.

I'd love to find a way to just outsource or resell someone elses SEO services without having to worry that the client will fall off page one or the top 3 every other day. :confused::confused::confused: Someone reputable with a proven track record would be a knight in shining armor for my business right now.

Anyone else feel this way?

Rich
#quitting #seo #thinking
  • Profile picture of the author DNChamp
    Rich , I just posted this post about reselling my services ---> http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-...designers.html

    PM me what sites are not ranking and maybe we can help!
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Sounds to me like you are more obsessed with being number one at everything SEO wise, than you are at building a business.

    Provide a solid service, and find some more selling points that will make people want to be your customers besides "Be number one".
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    • Profile picture of the author marketingrep4u
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      Sounds to me like you are more obsessed with being number one at everything SEO wise, than you are at building a business.

      Provide a solid service, and find some more selling points that will make people want to be your customers besides "Be number one".
      John,

      I'm more obsessed with my clients being number one than I am for myself. That's what they pay me for. Is my thinking/methodology wrong or mislead to think that the first step to getting a clients phone to ring is to be number one?

      Do you cover any of this in your Offline Business Kit mentioned in your sig block?

      Rich
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by marketingrep4u View Post

        John,

        I'm more obsessed with my clients being number one than I am for myself. That's what they pay me for. Is my thinking/methodology wrong or mislead to think that the first step to getting a clients phone to ring is to be number one?

        Do you cover any of this in your Offline Business Kit mentioned in your sig block?

        Rich
        Im only saying that if this is hard, why not change your business model.
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        • Profile picture of the author marketingrep4u
          Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

          Im only saying that if this is hard, why not change your business model.
          I'm all for it man. Just need some guidance from seasoned pros...
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      • Profile picture of the author econnors
        Originally Posted by marketingrep4u View Post

        John,

        I'm more obsessed with my clients being number one than I am for myself. That's what they pay me for. Is my thinking/methodology wrong or mislead to think that the first step to getting a clients phone to ring is to be number one?

        Do you cover any of this in your Offline Business Kit mentioned in your sig block?

        Rich
        That's where you're wrong. Or, at least you should be wrong. Your clients are paying you to get them more clients. Would you rather be #1 with no business or #12 with more business than you can handle? Rankings are so variable. What I see is different from what you see. What your clients see will be different than what you see. Things aren't like they used to be with universal rankings on every system. Instead, rankings are variable based on each searcher's interests. It's a bad thing to focus on, and you will only continue to drive yourself crazy.

        So, in that case, quit SEO. Start focus on conversions and bringing your client more business by way of their website...
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        • Profile picture of the author marketingrep4u
          Originally Posted by econnors View Post

          That's where you're wrong. Or, at least you should be wrong. Your clients are paying you to get them more clients. Would you rather be #1 with no business or #12 with more business than you can handle? Rankings are so variable. What I see is different from what you see. What your clients see will be different than what you see. Things aren't like they used to be with universal rankings on every system. Instead, rankings are variable based on each searcher's interests. It's a bad thing to focus on, and you will only continue to drive yourself crazy.

          So, in that case, quit SEO. Start focus on conversions and bringing your client more business by way of their website...
          I'm about to ask you what might seem like a stupid question, but since I can't see the trees because of the forest or vice versa, what kinds of things can I do to get my clients more customers? I was relying on being on page 1 to do that by default.

          Let's use a local chiropractor as an example. How would you help him get more clients via online marketing?
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          • Profile picture of the author Mister Natural
            Promising clients #1 in Google anymore is like a weatherman promising the public
            that every day will be a "pleasantly mild and sunny Christmas Day with lot's of presents".

            Offer only improvements, if you make it to #1 ,,,,,,, yippeee!
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          • Profile picture of the author econnors
            Originally Posted by marketingrep4u View Post

            I'm about to ask you what might seem like a stupid question, but since I can't see the trees because of the forest or vice versa, what kinds of things can I do to get my clients more customers? I was relying on being on page 1 to do that by default.

            Let's use a local chiropractor as an example. How would you help him get more clients via online marketing?
            A lot of the things that are done for SEO are also good for conversions (i.e. good page copy, good linking structure, etc.). The thing is - how are you packaging your services for clients? If you're selling them on the idea of being #1, that's what they'll be looking for. As an online marketing consultant, it's your goal to show them value that goes beyond the rank of the site.
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        • Profile picture of the author lakshmidomains
          Originally Posted by econnors View Post

          That's where you're wrong. Or, at least you should be wrong. Your clients are paying you to get them more clients. Would you rather be #1 with no business or #12 with more business than you can handle? Rankings are so variable. What I see is different from what you see. What your clients see will be different than what you see. Things aren't like they used to be with universal rankings on every system. Instead, rankings are variable based on each searcher's interests. It's a bad thing to focus on, and you will only continue to drive yourself crazy.

          So, in that case, quit SEO. Start focus on conversions and bringing your client more business by way of their website...
          but wont higher ranking also always equal more business?
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      • Profile picture of the author Doran Peck
        Originally Posted by marketingrep4u View Post

        John,

        I'm more obsessed with my clients being number one than I am for myself. That's what they pay me for. Is my thinking/methodology wrong or mislead to think that the first step to getting a clients phone to ring is to be number one?

        Do you cover any of this in your Offline Business Kit mentioned in your sig block?

        Rich
        No, it isn't. ...and I say that because from my perspective..."SEO" is given too much power...or...emphasis....but the reality is...for local businesses it just doesn't have the punch that "Internet Marketers" think it does.

        SEO and getting ranked....all this frenzy...for what? Who are you trying to get the attention of?

        I'll tell you who. The smallest.....tiniest...microfraction...of your entire potential market. Wooo big deal.

        For every 1 person who is already interested, and goes looking for a service on Google...there are 500 more who still need that service, but are just still asleep at the wheel.

        So you get a client on top of Google...then what...you sit and wait and hope?

        ...for what exactly...for the 1?

        Why not go after the 500?

        emphasis on "go after"

        Your goal isn't to make your clients phone ring by being number 1...it is simply to make your clients phone ring.

        SEO alone cannot achieve that nearly as easy as multiple avenues of marketing working like an orchestra.

        So my encouragement to you would not be to quit SEO, but to add to your arsenal as a marketer. Alter the game for yourself a little bit. Reset the rules and expectations...then set a new bar ...and work to reach it.

        Good Luck.
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        • Profile picture of the author EnzoBlaque
          Originally Posted by Doran Peck View Post

          So my encouragement to you would not be to quit SEO, but to add to your arsenal as a marketer. Alter the game for yourself a little bit. Reset the rules and expectations...then set a new bar ...and work to reach it.

          Good Luck.
          I agree.. Clients really just want you to send more business their way..

          Work on creating a marketing mixture. Don't just rely on SEO. More times than not SEO needs to be supplemented with a host of other campaigns before you see a significant impact on your client's sales.
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  • Profile picture of the author massiveray
    3 steps...

    1 quit SEO
    2 get me clients
    3 I will pay you

    You don't have to worry about rankings and you still get paid.
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  • Profile picture of the author Gatsby
    If you read this far - go back to massiveray and start at step 1.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mav91890
    I never wanted to get involved selling SEO services because of the unreliability. One day you're on top, next month maybe not. I hate having to be paranoid about Google pushing my site down and having clients calling me nonstop.
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  • Profile picture of the author Baadier Sydow
    An alternative route would be to just use the same SEO budget and reinvest that into building your clients high quality landing pages hooked up to Google Adwords bidding. Clients dont care about number in actuality, thats always been a vanity sell as opposed to a value sell. They are interested in growing their business, the same as you. I would like to future proof my own business, and a part of that is finding a sales funnel that I feel confident and secure in. Adwords is one option.

    Search the forum for different pricing models that other warriors are using and you will find that you can keep(depending on what you were charging) your profit margins the same while being a lot more assure of what is happening.
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  • Profile picture of the author lovercase
    i have never thought about that !I am new to seo and know little about it!
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  • Profile picture of the author sloanjim
    that to me is the HUGE problem with SEO. You are not in control of it. You dance to G's tune every time.
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  • Profile picture of the author VHSEOMike
    Survival for the fittest. SEO will be harder day by day but experts will be free from risk always. I don't think you should change your career, you are frustrated I guess.
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    • Profile picture of the author Rollmodl
      Google's constant changes with Penguin, Panda and other "P" animals to coming in the future, I transitioned from SEO to SMO. SEO is still important but I'm relying less on it. Searches are becoming more social and quality content is the key.

      Social media optimization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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    • Profile picture of the author DubDubDubDot
      Originally Posted by VHSEOMike View Post

      SEO will be harder day by day but experts will be free from risk always.
      Even if you can afford a legit SEO expert (which is going to cost you 4 figures per month minimum), they too can screw things up for you.

      All of these hack "seo experts" running around WF? LOOOOL!
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  • Profile picture of the author CageyVet
    The days of strictly doing website SEO as a technical service for clients is slowly being moved from the masses as an all encompassing business service and it is being morphed into a small portion of a larger service of Internet Marketing and Online Presence Management.

    SEO should be something that you know how to do technically and be able to apply it to web properties to help optimize them for various search engines but if you are looking at running a business. Then it should be a very small component of that business.

    Yes you can still help businesses with on page optimization(so they are optimized or not over optimized) and you can still help them build high quality back links to their web properties(where they are owned websites, classified ads, videos, etc etc)

    But for the most part you should be looking to help businesses make more money....

    That can be done by getting more clients/customers, making more sales to existing clients, increasing customer interest in specific products/services etc, etc...

    So instead of just working on SEO(which is not nearly as easy as it used to me), instead try working on helping the business market itself.....

    Find out what kind of customers the business is looking to go after and then find methods to drive that traffic to the business....social media, video, Web 2.0 properties, mobile, SMS, PPC, conversion optimization, email marketing, newletters, video email marketing, offline/online combination marketing, QR...the list goes on.

    You can make way more money by helping a business make more money then just by getting a webpage to #1 in Google....
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  • Profile picture of the author massiveray
    I see a whole lot of theory in this thread, from people who clearly aren't selling SEO or using it on their own sites.

    Every single site that I have worked on, has increased revenue dramatically when it reaches number 1, it is irrelevant whether the site has moved up from position 2 or 10. Revenue then improves further with testing and editing of the actual sales pages. Sim
    Le fact is that higher ranking = more visits = more monehs, except for a weird anomaly with positions 7 and 10.

    First page and first position are two completely separate ball games.

    For those who say you are never in control, although essentially that may be true, if you get to number 1 without messing with any lazy nonsense link building tactics, no google update will touch you, and even if it does, you will only drop a few places. I know that people get caught in the crossfire and get destroyed but this is rarely without any wrong doing.

    If that is the case and a ranking factor becomes more prominent, as social has become in the most recent updates, then simply add that to your strategy.

    I'm actually very very happy that you are all being negative about selling SEO, it just means that I'll make more money.

    Clients will never be happy with a drop in rankings but it's an opportunity to a) show how good you are by getting the traffic back and b) stealing the clients of other SEO companies who have dropped and don't know how to get back up.

    You people need to stop bitching and get back to work. If you don't want to then kindly send me the contact information of your unwanted SEO clients (if you have any) and I'll make money from them and send you a postcard from the many countries I will visit thanks to your cash.
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    • Profile picture of the author DABK
      I agree that making it to #1 makes the phone ring. Actually, depending on keyword, moving a page from #4 to #3 can be good. (I've just moved a client from #4 to #3 for 2 keywords. At #4, nobody called, nobody filled out the online form. At #3, 3 prospects filled out the online form, 7 called.

      That said, I'll move to the next phase: people call or fill out the online form, then what? In the case of my client, he's lost 3 of the leads because the process for dealing with them stinks.

      Specifically, only the owner can quote rates (this is a mortgage brokerage). The owner is not in all the time, the owner takes his sweet time to call back...

      Now we're working on getting that process fixed... For online forms, aweber. For those who call... Basically, the owner is the bottleneck, so setting up a system where his people can reel the prospects in... It's easy to me, but they (owner and people in his company, did not see it).

      So, OP, help them convert the leads they get, set up a way for them to collect emails and send them messages. Set up a system to follow up with them if they asked a question, a system if they bought something (to get them to buy again), etc.

      So, OP. How many of your clients and prospects would benefit from being considered experts?

      Ask them what are the 3 or 5 or x most common complaints people have about whatever they sell (if they sell insurance, for instance, a lot of people who've made a claim about flood, complain that the insurance cheated them as it did not cover... However, the insurance companies have, in the policy, several definitions for flooding, flooding under definition 1 and 2 will be covered, under 3 and 4 will not... i.e., if your sewer system backs up, you're covered. If it rains through your roof, you're covered. If water gets in the house through the front door (as in when the river a mile away floods) you're not covered.

      Then you get someone to write an article for that, and publish it in some local blog. Here, in the US... a lot of places have aol's Patch. Major newspapers have online variations that have a section for the locals to add info... One of mine has a section called announcements.

      You publish an article on ezinearticles.com or patch.com, then you post an announcement in the other local online paper.

      You could do Google places for them... People use them a lot to figure out where you're located, or get your phone number...

      You could make videos and upload them to youtube.com and/or other sites (metacafe.com).

      The videos could be made with animoto.com, camtasia... screenshots of your computer. Or you could go and ask the owner about what does flood insurance cover and what are the wrong assumptions people make about flood insurance. Film him answering the question. Upload to youtube... metacafe... make sure to have the right keywords, the contact information for them and to give yourself credit for making the video.

      Originally Posted by massiveray View Post

      I see a whole lot of theory in this thread, from people who clearly aren't selling SEO or using it on their own sites.

      Every single site that I have worked on, has increased revenue dramatically when it reaches number 1, it is irrelevant whether the site has moved up from position 2 or 10. Revenue then improves further with testing and editing of the actual sales pages. Sim
      Le fact is that higher ranking = more visits = more monehs, except for a weird anomaly with positions 7 and 10.

      First page and first position are two completely separate ball games.

      For those who say you are never in control, although essentially that may be true, if you get to number 1 without messing with any lazy nonsense link building tactics, no google update will touch you, and even if it does, you will only drop a few places. I know that people get caught in the crossfire and get destroyed but this is rarely without any wrong doing.

      If that is the case and a ranking factor becomes more prominent, as social has become in the most recent updates, then simply add that to your strategy.

      I'm actually very very happy that you are all being negative about selling SEO, it just means that I'll make more money.

      Clients will never be happy with a drop in rankings but it's an opportunity to a) show how good you are by getting the traffic back and b) stealing the clients of other SEO companies who have dropped and don't know how to get back up.

      You people need to stop bitching and get back to work. If you don't want to then kindly send me the contact information of your unwanted SEO clients (if you have any) and I'll make money from them and send you a postcard from the many countries I will visit thanks to your cash.
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    • Profile picture of the author EZlivin
      Originally Posted by massiveray View Post

      I see a whole lot of theory in this thread, from people who clearly aren't selling SEO or using it on their own sites.

      Every single site that I have worked on, has increased revenue dramatically when it reaches number 1, it is irrelevant whether the site has moved up from position 2 or 10. Revenue then improves further with testing and editing of the actual sales pages. Sim
      Le fact is that higher ranking = more visits = more monehs, except for a weird anomaly with positions 7 and 10.

      First page and first position are two completely separate ball games.

      For those who say you are never in control, although essentially that may be true, if you get to number 1 without messing with any lazy nonsense link building tactics, no google update will touch you, and even if it does, you will only drop a few places. I know that people get caught in the crossfire and get destroyed but this is rarely without any wrong doing.

      If that is the case and a ranking factor becomes more prominent, as social has become in the most recent updates, then simply add that to your strategy.

      I'm actually very very happy that you are all being negative about selling SEO, it just means that I'll make more money.

      Clients will never be happy with a drop in rankings but it's an opportunity to a) show how good you are by getting the traffic back and b) stealing the clients of other SEO companies who have dropped and don't know how to get back up.

      You people need to stop bitching and get back to work. If you don't want to then kindly send me the contact information of your unwanted SEO clients (if you have any) and I'll make money from them and send you a postcard from the many countries I will visit thanks to your cash.

      I agree. Too many people are on here complaining. SEO still works, I do it everyday in my business and for the clients that I have. I agree that is has gotten more difficult but that just makes my services more valuable.

      Anyway, I would recommend that you not give up on SEO. It is not dead and it gives a big boost to your clients bottom line.
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    • Profile picture of the author DABK
      Originally Posted by massiveray View Post

      I see a whole lot of theory in this thread, from people who clearly aren't selling SEO or using it on their own sites.

      ....

      First page and first position are two completely separate ball games.
      ....
      Here is information for 2 keywords I worked on

      the 1st keyword got me 57 visits in one month and was #6
      the 2nd keyword got me 28 visits in one month and was #9

      When the 1st keyword was #1, it got me 653 visitors that month.

      The 2nd keyword had moved to #6 and it got me 92 visitors that month.

      The point is, it's good to be on page 1, but each number closer to the top gets you more, especially from 3 to 2, 2 to 1.

      6 vs 1: in this case the difference was a 11.4 times increase.
      Same keyword got me 26 visitors when it was #10, so 10 to 1 got me 25.11 more visitors.

      If your site converts at 1%, being #10 for a keyword like mine means in 1 year you 2 or 3 sales if you're at #10, and you get 78 sales if you're #1.

      By the way, when those 2 keywords were #6 and 10, I got traffic via 39 keywords (including the 2 I was going after); when I had them at #1 and 6, I got traffic via 149 keywords (including those 2).

      Just saying.

      Edited because images did not show. I should preview my posts before they're live, shouldn't I?
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  • Profile picture of the author nyk24
    It's blindingly obvious to me:

    1. Have a plan a,b,c,d,e etc
    2. Maybe you should give up on your current niche and move onto an easier one?
    3. Do a JV with someone....if you can get the clients then let someone else worry about the rankings

    If its any consolation I know how you feel regarding giving up. There's no shame in giving up and trying something else like selling websites...if you can pick up a phone or knock on a door you can sell anything if you persist.

    However deep down if you want it bad enough you will diversify and change your tactics. Theres more to seo than traditional and local seo.

    I really hope you make it through your rough patch.
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  • Profile picture of the author nyk24
    forgot to say outsource all your work to people who know what they are doing. Why slog your guts out if someone else can do it while you gain even more clients. If you lose a client just go out there and get some more.

    There are some smart cookies on this forum who are outsourcing like crazy everything from the seo work, the web design, the telemarketing and all they do is turn up for meetings to close deals...well I am sure someone will correct me but you get the jist?

    A wise man once told me, "if someones doing well then you copy them and improve on what they are doing."
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  • Profile picture of the author Larry Leggett
    It is always very important to keep your mind clam in tough times. "Google's ranking will be changed" this is the truth. When you see someone has beaten and ranked number one, you should know, that guy is working harder than you. You must work harder than him to beat him.
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  • Profile picture of the author kieljo
    Rich,

    The short of it is that SEO and even adsense is dying. Goolge over the last 6 months has been really sticking it to the average guy. I know people who have been "doing everything right" and are still struggling and don't know what to do and these are people who are making a full time living with this stuff.

    One of the best articles I read on this is here. This might help.

    Income From Website Advertising - The truth on why your web income is dropping

    John
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  • Profile picture of the author dome
    downtime is always an opportunity to learn something new and master you skill, if you'll quit your stuff just caz you'r down is not the way to deal life, all you have to do it make a new seo strategy, do more research and set your new goal.
    everything will be life before.
    god bless you!!
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  • Profile picture of the author Devid1
    Find some one on odesk or elance.
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    • Profile picture of the author marketingrep4u
      Thanks for all the encouragement!

      Based on all the replies and a lot of consideration, I think I'd just like to focus on getting the clients and let someone else do all the SEO and online marketing efforts.

      Since that's the way I'm going, besides elance, odesk and sifting through countless threads on the wf looking for a service provider, who do you recommend I use?

      I'm specifically looking for a traffic and results guru that can do all the things we've all talked about on this thread.

      Thanks again for all the encouragement!!
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      • Profile picture of the author massiveray
        I'll do it, pm me if interested and we can work out a payment structure.

        Originally Posted by marketingrep4u View Post

        Thanks for all the encouragement!

        Based on all the replies and a lot of consideration, I think I'd just like to focus on getting the clients and let someone else do all the SEO and online marketing efforts.

        Since that's the way I'm going, besides elance, odesk and sifting through countless threads on the wf looking for a service provider, who do you recommend I use?

        I'm specifically looking for a traffic and results guru that can do all the things we've all talked about on this thread.

        Thanks again for all the encouragement!!
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      • Profile picture of the author JaffeyApple
        The problem with this concept is that you are reliant upon third parties to perform the tasks for you when you do not know how to do them yourself (by your own confession).

        If your provider does not deliver, you are left with egg on your face with your reputation going into a downward spiral, not theirs. If you want to build a business with longevity, erecting foundations on sand is a sure fire way to ensure your business will crumble around you.

        Determine what you know well and sell that service. Farm this out to third parties and with you acting as the conductor you will know how to get the best results from the orchestra. Selling SEO when you are not in a position to direct, and when your heart is quite clearly not in it, makes no sense at all.

        You have chosen the route of being self employed with your own clients and being your own boss. At least do everything you can to carve out a little niche that you actually get some enjoyment from and have a passion for or you may as well go back to the 9 - 5 grind for a.n.other and have the pleasure of being able to switch off come evenings and weekends.

        Sorry, not meaning to sound harsh, I am simply stating do small things well, not big things poorly. Focus on what you know inside out and scale it up to supplement your income requirements whilst changing fields. Once you have achieved this you can branch out whilst having a smile on your face rather than getting old before your time.

        Originally Posted by marketingrep4u View Post

        Thanks for all the encouragement!

        Based on all the replies and a lot of consideration, I think I'd just like to focus on getting the clients and let someone else do all the SEO and online marketing efforts.

        Since that's the way I'm going, besides elance, odesk and sifting through countless threads on the wf looking for a service provider, who do you recommend I use?

        I'm specifically looking for a traffic and results guru that can do all the things we've all talked about on this thread.

        Thanks again for all the encouragement!!
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  • Profile picture of the author 4morereferrals
    I'm actually very very happy that you are all being negative about selling SEO, it just means that I'll make more money.

    Clients will never be happy with a drop in rankings but it's an opportunity to a) show how good you are by getting the traffic back and b) stealing the clients of other SEO companies who have dropped and don't know how to get back up.
    BOOOOm! Im glad too :-)

    Their perception [ clients ] can be reality. Will they be happy paying you to be on page #2? :-)
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    Rank Ascend Network - High PR Links / Guaranteed Rankings Increase
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  • Profile picture of the author SeoKungFu
    Only The Strong Survive ! ! !
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Beatty
    Have you analyzed the sites that are ranking ahead of you to see if you can maybe find something they are doing that you are not? Might be a good place to look if you haven't already!
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    How I Generated 217 INBOUND Phone Calls For My Marketing Agency <------- Scripts Are Included
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  • Profile picture of the author danoercwd
    Hi Dear... You have same problem with me... but i try to do the best for SEO, and begin it from 0, why don't we survive together ? I believe we can do it if we have big spirit for SEO, Don't give up with your business, I just can pray for your business, Good-luck mate.. God Bless You.....
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  • Profile picture of the author juliamedlton
    Not quit you hear that try try again.
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  • Profile picture of the author msu
    Although you could argue that content marketing is a form of SEO, I think content marketing - along with social sharing signals showing how much it's been shared - will take over from SEO as the best way to promote a site.

    And in the near future too.
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