Greatest Concept For "OFFLINE" USP... "Money Back Guarantee?"

44 replies
Im not recommending this, for just anyone. But My brother Michael and I are pretty confident that we can pull it off, and I think this is going to be one of the most amazing USP's ever.

We are going to start selling sites for our new Americas Digital Media People Offline Project (National Web design Company business model), which will include back links for local companies *where we will be doing our initial testing) in a statewide directory site we are going to be building as back end part of the package.

Its a twist on the bower model to bring these two models together... long story, anyway...

He mentioned to me today that he has been offering a money back guarantee as his usp for his sales training classes for two years now, where dealerships pay him up to 16k per day to hold seminars for training their people, at $350.00 per head, and that he has never had to give a single refund.

Here's the deal, when a customer asks for a refund most times you are going to be forced to give it to them anyway, so why not use it as a USP and offer it in your pitch, telling people "WE ARE THE ONLY ONES WHO OFFER A FULL MONEY BACK GUARANTEE....if we dont fulfill our promises...".

We feel like adding this to our pitching strategy is going to be the usp that seperates us from the pack.

I have always had a policy of "cancel anytime, no contracts..."

But have never offered a full money back guarantee on a $1500.00 product, and his thinking makes alot of sense, I may have learned something new about how to look at this...

We believe we can fulfill and that no one will ask for one, and we also believe that we would have to give the refund anyway if someone forced the issue so its safe to add it to our pitch.

I believe this is going to sky rocket conversion.

We are preparing all of our pitch material now and I am going to be relaunching the vicom site next week with a few changes to make it more basic for now, and quick to get started since that site is a great concept and is 90% done.... but Im excited about adding this element to our pitching and wanted to share the thought with you all....

Its very different than doing the work first and getting paid later after results, because in those scenarios, if you dont get billing info on the call most of them dont buy anyway after all your hard work...however if they have already been billed there isnt so much chance that they will cancel, even though they would never pay if you didnt the work first, even if you got them on the front page as promised, in many cases.

Will be keeping you updated. I have a couple of reports I have to finish this week and some of us "offline teacher" types are going to be launching a collaborative effort for Ken Strongs benefit over the next week that will be a pretty big thing, then I am going to get on the phones next week Im planning on starting on the phones monday or tuesday for this.

After which I may not be releasing anymore reports for at least 6 months or so, because we will be fast at work growing this model. Which (Yes, the vip list will be a part of).

We are going to hit our first 25k by ourslves (within 30 days of start date) and then scale out based on the refined system that emerges as a result.

I probably shouldnt be sharing this ahead of time because that gets me in trouble alot, but I was excited about the simple little twist that I think is going to make all the difference.

I planted seeds for this early through the beginning part of the year, and I wanted them to grow then , but they are actually blossoming more now, and Im glad they did because we are really strong together about this kind of sstuff and Im glad I got Michael involved.

I dont recommend that any newbies try this particular angle until they are sure they can fulfill and have proven that to themselves, there are plenty of other angles we share here that will work for you just fine until you are confident in your fulfillment processes...but as for myself and Michael , with the help of our outsourcers, we are very excited about incorporating this idea and seeing how it puts jet fuel in our closing ratios.

Just wanted to share. It justv makes sense that if you would have to refund a refunder anyway, you might as well make yourself the only internet marketing firm in town that actually OFFERS the money back guarantee. The sales we will gain for it, will more than make up for any potential refunds, but for the way we are going to go about this we dont expect any, and the ones that MAY happen will be very few and far between.

Just couldnt wait to share that thought. May be an old one to some, but I have never done it and Im anxious to see how it roll. I think it will roll well and increase conversions like crazy.

Of course I can sell without it, have been since 98 or 99, but Im excited to see how this can potentially be an even MORE powerful angle for a USP in a sales pitch.

The guarantee is that they will get page and stay there most of the time within a certain time frame or their money back.

This is not the same as the technique where you dont charge them till they hit page one...because people act differently before and after you get their credit card, you could get them to the first page and they still may not pay you and take a contract when you do it ahead of time without pay, so we are going to collect up front, and just offer a money back guarantee if we dont get them to page one.


By being selective about niches, and towns, we will set up only leads that we know we can there in the first place (choose battles).

So maybe Im being premature but I had to get this idea out and share it, even though we havent tried it yet and we still have another week of planning to launch the way we want to.

Its exciting to try something new, as most of my systems are like old hat to me now, I like trying fresh ideas.

JD
#concept #greatest #money back guarantee #usp
  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Ooops wrong section mods, meant for offline. My apologies.
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  • Profile picture of the author cloudstrife
    While this thread may be in the wrong section, it's a good post. With most of the traders I have met, they do not offer money back guarantees on large purchases. I do not offer such large products (at least not yet!) but this is an interesting concept.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Thanks for the kind words cloudstrife.

      Market warrior06,

      I agree this isnt for newbies.

      Originally Posted by cloudstrife View Post

      While this thread may be in the wrong section, it's a good post. With most of the traders I have met, they do not offer money back guarantees on large purchases. I do not offer such large products (at least not yet!) but this is an interesting concept.
      It makes sense that whether its through pay pal or through charge backs... People who want a refund on a purchase that size will demand it. So why not make it a USP?
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      • Profile picture of the author cloudstrife
        Originally Posted by John Durham View Post


        It makes sense that whether its through pay pal or through charge backs... People who want a refund on a purchase that size will demand it. So why not make it a USP?
        As a marketing strategy, from a consumer standpoint I will attest to the strength of a money back guarantee. Many a time I have bought products (even here on WF!) knowing that I have the fallback of a refund in case I dont like what I bought.

        For all these purchases, not once have I asked for a refund. I may not be representative of the general demographic, but make of that what you will.
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        • Profile picture of the author John Durham
          Originally Posted by cloudstrife View Post


          For all these purchases, not once have I asked for a refund. I may not be representative of the general demographic, but make of that what you will.
          I think you are representative of the average buyer, those who refund are truly the minority. Having sold thousands of wso's I can say that even in the opportunity market which is harsh the refund rate is maybe 1-2% overall which makes non refunders the seriously overwhelming majority.
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  • Profile picture of the author marketwarrior06
    Banned
    Its for the Pros. I think. If the newbies or even the people who have less experience will never get success in this. For sure. Sorry dude but i have to say it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rearden
    Remember to up your price because your offering a Money back guarantee.

    I used it for YEARS selling my personal training fitness services (30-day Satisfaction Guarantee).

    I did get 4 refunds total -- 2 from the same person.

    BUT my business grew by leaps and bounds because of it, because of the added value ensuring satisfaction and results brings.

    Risk reversal WORKS.
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    • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
      I did a better than money back guarantee many years ago.

      I had read about Jay Abraham getting one of his clients to take away the risk of what his clients were facing.

      Another words, it's really, really understanding their pain points and you being the only one in the market that takes the risk away...completely.

      I realized from talking with my clients that they had been let down by other contractors in 2 main areas...

      so in my advertising I said that will never happen with me, and if for any reason it did, they are the sole judge and jury, then I'll pay out $1,000 for not keeping my promise.

      I tell ya, it puts the heat on ya to perform...and so it should.

      You become a man of your word...no weasel escapes.

      And the beauty was I attracted better calibre of clients who were more pleasant to work for, paid more and paid on time.

      The competition never tried to match my $1,000 promise.

      And if they did, they would be seen as copy-cats as I was the one who set the new standard in the market place.

      So once again, if you have the guts to do it, you find out what the biggest frustration is in the marketplace with existing players and you make a promise it will never happen with you, and should it, you hand over cash, lots of it...like $1,000.

      Another angle is you find out what it costs in down time for the business if your service or product fixes, then you promise you'll pay out the business the cost of their downtime.

      You charge premium and take out third party insurance to cover that payout.

      You'll stand out like a beacon as the person who makes a stand by keeping his/her promises,
      in a world where masses of people have been cheated and lied to.

      Best,
      Ewen
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      • Profile picture of the author Riz
        Interesting point Ewen - can totally see how this would actually allow you to charge higher prices whilst getting better calibre clients.

        What business were you in at the time?

        Riz

        Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

        I did a better than money back guarantee many years ago.

        I had read about Jay Abraham getting one of his clients to take away the risk of what his clients were facing.

        Another words, it's really, really understanding their pain points and you being the only one in the market that takes the risk away...completely.

        I realized from talking with my clients that they had been let down by other contractors in 2 main areas...

        so in my advertising I said that will never happen with me, and if for any reason it did, they are the sole judge and jury, then I'll pay out $1,000 for not keeping my promise.
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        • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
          Originally Posted by Riz View Post

          Interesting point Ewen - can totally see how this would actually allow you to charge higher prices whilst getting better calibre clients.

          What business were you in at the time?

          Riz
          Howdy Riz,
          It was in the lawnmowing business.

          When the service was averaging a tad under $30 per client,
          then you can see the $1,000 promise is truly remarkable!.

          I didn't start out at $1,000 though.
          First of it was movie tickets for two, then 2 meals at a fancy restaurant,
          $100, $250, $500 then I hit it out the park at $1,000.

          Best,
          Ewen

          P.S. I was building up and selling those businesses.
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          • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
            Staying on topic on crafting a kick-ass guarantee,
            we've already seen in this thread someone has, rightly or wrongly,
            felt cheated and trust has been lost.

            We , as marketers live so much in our world,
            and don't step into the world of our clients...

            so make a meaningful promise to them, and back it up
            with real hurt if you fail to keep it.

            When I made the $1,000 promise,
            I only had one client request payment, and only part of it,
            which was $50.

            I was thankful because it helped me refine my business systems even further
            so I gave out an even better customer experience.

            I had the highest retention rate of clients in the industry,
            which meant I could build up a business quicker to sell.

            There is more money to be made by building and selling a business than running one,
            once you get good.

            Best,
            Ewen
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    • Profile picture of the author Riz
      John this is fantastic advice for the board.

      When I first started my offline consulting business I used the 'Money Back Guarantee' line.

      Basically the offer was that if they never saw an improvement in their business from the work we have done we will happily refund all their money after 3 months. We went on to explain that the reason we can confidently offer this guarantee is because we know, based on our experience, that we can make improvements to their bottom line. Also, if we were not able to make the required improvements we would not be comfortable holding onto their money.

      We would go on to explain that if we did not do what we promised (in this case improve their bottom line) we would remove the work that was done and the systems we set up and happily refund their money.

      We would reiterate that we can produce results.

      At the time we were targeting restaurants and salons.

      Offering this gave them a lot of confidence in our services, especially when we mentioned that this guarantee is stipulated in our contracts.

      Our sales conversions improved dramatically when this Money Back Guarantee was explained ans we have since always used this is some variation.

      Riz
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  • Profile picture of the author somacorellc
    Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

    But have never offered a full money back guarantee on a $1500.00 product...
    Awesome stuff.

    Part of the power of the sales pitch is that you can say things that are blatantly obvious to you, but frame them in a way that makes you look awesome, like John is doing. You're basically planting a seed of doubt into the prospect's brains that will make them gravitate towards you. But, if you're too scared to do it with a money back guarantee, just use some other mundane part of your business to highlight yourself. I'll give a few (made up) examples to demonstrate:

    "We believe all cars should come with 10 standard airbags. Is your family protected?"

    "Don't get billed by the hour (and pay a large minimum) for every support question. Choose Vicom and receive unlimited training and support."

    "We don't just get you to the top of Google, we keep you there."

    See how each one of these plants a little doubt in your mind about the competitors? It's really cool stuff and you can use it to highlight literally any area of your business for maximum results. I encourage everyone to try this - it's really fun to think of these "doubt" type headlines.
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  • Profile picture of the author MaxwellB
    John,

    I am not going to say I don't like the idea because I actually came up with pitching a money back gaurantee for seo months ago and I think I will try it out to see what happens but my thought is this.

    When you don't have a money back gaurantee and you lay out what your work will be, and you do that work, they may ask for a refund or be disappointed but you did the work you said you would do.

    If you pitch a money back guarantee regardless of if you did the work they will remember that and use it as a crutch I THINK, I don't know for a fact. What are you thoughts on this.

    I think it might be useful if the money back guarantee had a solid clear benchmark to go off of. For example, first page ranking in 6 months, or 5000 hits to your website within 6 months.

    But a 100% satisfaction money back guarantee, "If your not 100% satisfied we'll refund every cent".

    Don't you think people will then have overly high expectations?
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    • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
      I can't say I agree with you, AT ALL when it comes to SEO. No contracts, cancel anytime, works great with SEO, but money back guarantee is something that is going to hurt you I think.

      Are you going to be hosting these yourself? You're setting yourself up for a big headache I believe. If you're hosting it, that is the only way you can control the environment and be able to maintain secure sites, keep the speed up, make sure you don't become a bad neighborhood, etc. Problem is, with a big load of sites you're going to need different c class IPs. If you have THEM host it themselves through godaddy, hostgator, bluehost or wherever, you don't know the quality of the server block and that really can be the difference between page 1 and page 3.

      Then you have the issue of the next algo update which is really going to throw things for a loop. Page 1 for a week and then they drop, what happens then? Money refunded? You'll also have problems with not knowing where they're REALLY ranked based on which data center you're pulling from.

      Man... I just see sooooo many headaches with this. I think it could work with websites, social media, or graphics, or training... but something as cut and dry as SEO.... Page 1 or your money back, is a problem. It also takes so much time sometimes, that what you do in month 1 won't be visible until month 4. Know what I mean? Then you have certain keywords in certain markets where companies hire assholes like me, to completely control the serps and keep certain people back on page 5 lol.

      I realize we're talking about first page, it could be the bottom in a low competition industry and market, but the main issue is still, that you don't control google. Backlinks aren't it anymore.. Much more is involved now. 99% of the people that build backlinks, are building ones that could never help anyway.

      I guess if anyone can pull it off, it's you. I just think it's pretty scary to do that.
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

        I can't say I agree with you, AT ALL when it comes to SEO. No contracts, cancel anytime, works great with SEO, but money back guarantee is something that is going to hurt you I think.

        Are you going to be hosting these yourself? You're setting yourself up for a big headache I believe. If you're hosting it, that is the only way you can control the environment and be able to maintain secure sites, keep the speed up, make sure you don't become a bad neighborhood, etc. Problem is, with a big load of sites you're going to need different c class IPs. If you have THEM host it themselves through godaddy, hostgator, bluehost or wherever, you don't know the quality of the server block and that really can be the difference between page 1 and page 3.

        Then you have the issue of the next algo update which is really going to throw things for a loop. Page 1 for a week and then they drop, what happens then? Money refunded? You'll also have problems with not knowing where they're REALLY ranked based on which data center you're pulling from.

        Man... I just see sooooo many headaches with this. I think it could work with websites, social media, or graphics, or training... but something as cut and dry as SEO.... Page 1 or your money back, is a problem. It also takes so much time sometimes, that what you do in month 1 won't be visible until month 4. Know what I mean? Then you have certain keywords in certain markets where companies hire assholes like me, to completely control the serps and keep certain people back on page 5 lol.

        I realize we're talking about first page, it could be the bottom in a low competition industry and market, but the main issue is still, that you don't control google. Backlinks aren't it anymore.. Much more is involved now. 99% of the people that build backlinks, are building ones that could never help anyway.

        I guess if anyone can pull it off, it's you. I just think it's pretty scary to do that.
        So you are helping me make distinctions.... "If we dont get you indexed on the first page for xyz keywords within xyz time...." so this is a limited time guarantee 30-60 days.... we fulfill certain things in thirty to sixty days that are realistic, then the money back guarantee ends...

        Ps. Heck no I dont want to host them myself.

        On yet another note, I am also making the distinction that this is a good reason not to charge 15-20k per job.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by MaxwellB View Post

      John,

      I am not going to say I don't like the idea because I actually came up with pitching a money back gaurantee for seo months ago and I think I will try it out to see what happens but my thought is this.

      When you don't have a money back gaurantee and you lay out what your work will be, and you do that work, they may ask for a refund or be disappointed but you did the work you said you would do.

      If you pitch a money back guarantee regardless of if you did the work they will remember that and use it as a crutch I THINK, I don't know for a fact. What are you thoughts on this.

      I think it might be useful if the money back guarantee had a solid clear benchmark to go off of. For example, first page ranking in 6 months, or 5000 hits to your website within 6 months.

      But a 100% satisfaction money back guarantee, "If your not 100% satisfied we'll refund every cent".

      Don't you think people will then have overly high expectations?
      Its all about your search terms and guarantee. We guarantee to keep you on the first page up to 70% of the time for xxx local search terms ...

      You may not be able to to do this all the time for national companies, but you can certainly do it for local ones.... So I dont see fulfillment as a problem.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
      Originally Posted by MaxwellB View Post

      John,

      I am not going to say I don't like the idea because I actually came up with pitching a money back gaurantee for seo months ago and I think I will try it out to see what happens but my thought is this.

      When you don't have a money back gaurantee and you lay out what your work will be, and you do that work, they may ask for a refund or be disappointed but you did the work you said you would do.

      If you pitch a money back guarantee regardless of if you did the work they will remember that and use it as a crutch I THINK, I don't know for a fact. What are you thoughts on this.

      I think it might be useful if the money back guarantee had a solid clear benchmark to go off of. For example, first page ranking in 6 months, or 5000 hits to your website within 6 months.

      But a 100% satisfaction money back guarantee, "If your not 100% satisfied we'll refund every cent".

      Don't you think people will then have overly high expectations?
      This is the #1 thing... BAR NONE... that nearly 100% of all people
      calling themselves salespeople don't understand.

      You minimize refunds by managing expectations. If you paint pictures
      that conjure up unrealistic results you are asking them to request a refund.

      This is one of the reasons why true sales is a PROFESSION, not a JOB.
      The balance between just enough positive stimulus to prompt a positive
      response and going over that line into hype and unrealistic expectations
      is very thin...

      Those who know and understand the difference, and how to present it,
      will make tons of money with very few refund requests.
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      If you knew what I know you'd be doing what I do...
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  • Profile picture of the author RexMapes
    Warning!

    It is not my intent to disagree with any posts above this one. The point I would like to make is actually a warning for those that are just getting started in an offline or online business.

    Before grabbing this idea and running with it you need to consider who your clients are and your own abilities. I have seen a few people get in trouble making this type of guarantee. How? They overestimated their ability to make a client happy. The problem wasn't with their abilities as much as with their rapport with their client.

    The big problem rears it's ugly head when the client is not happy and requests the refund. The provider is in trouble now because they have used part of the money to pay out of pocket expenses. Now they are out the refund plus the out of pocket. In some cases with new start-ups the funds aren't there to cover the refund (very bad business planning).

    If you are going to offer a money back guarantee, make sure you can provide it if needed (with a smile incuded). I realize thay most reading this will say "duhhh". Some need to be told or reminded of this unfortunately.

    Rex
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  • Profile picture of the author ginnysclub1
    I don't know about trusting you with refunding a $1500 item because I couldn't get a $24 item refunded for The Bower Report

    John, after sending you direct messages requesting information about top ranking Google affiliate status which I didn't understand and you didn't reply so i asked for a refund which and again you didn't reply.

    This is not a malicious statement. This is a fact. I have proof of direct messages sent simply requesting for more information. You can't prove that you replied because you didn't bother.

    I suppose you will get the Mods to withdraw or take down this post. I did not post anything before because to do so would break the forums rules. However, in this instance, my comment is related to the topic.

    I understand that I have probably upset a lot of people on this forum because John is one of the big boys. But reading your post about giving refunds made my blood boil.

    And by the way, what is a top ranking Google affiliate? And when and how did I achieve that status? Maybe I should've repeated your telephone script word for word without questioning it but unfortunately that's just not my style.
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    • Profile picture of the author MaxwellB
      Originally Posted by ginnysclub1 View Post

      I don't know about trusting you with refunding a $1500 item because I couldn't get a $24 item refunded for The Bower Report

      John, after sending you direct messages requesting information about top ranking Google affiliate status which I didn't understand and you didn't reply so i asked for a refund which and again you didn't reply.

      This is not a malicious statement. This is a fact. I have proof of direct messages sent simply requesting for more information. You can't prove that you replied because you didn't bother.

      I suppose you will get the Mods to withdraw or take down this post. I did not post anything before because to do so would break the forums rules. However, in this instance, my comment is related to the topic.

      I understand that I have probably upset a lot of people on this forum because John is one of the big boys. But reading your post about giving refunds made my blood boil.

      And by the way, what is a top ranking Google affiliate? And when and how did I achieve that status? Maybe I should've repeated your telephone script word for word without questioning it but unfortunately that's just not my style.
      Wait, so you asked him a question about something within the report, and you didn't respond so you requested a refund?

      ....I'd say to ignore you was the nicest possible thing he could have done. I applaud him for not saying what I would have said.

      Buying his report does not in any way shape or form mean that he has to be on call for you to ask questions to about it. You should have followed up your question and he would have gotten back to you.
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      • Profile picture of the author ginnysclub1
        Originally Posted by MaxwellB View Post

        Wait, so you asked him a question about something within the report, and you didn't respond so you requested a refund?

        ....I'd say to ignore you was the nicest possible thing he could have done. I applaud him for not saying what I would have said.

        Buying his report does not in any way shape or form mean that he has to be on call for you to ask questions to about it. You should have followed up your question and he would have gotten back to you.
        The point is - I did follow up the question and he didn't get back to me.

        But anyways maybe you're right, maybe I should've been prepared to say something that i thougth might have been BS without an explanation and I shouldn't have asked for more information - after all, John is a very busy and important man and who am I?

        The point that I am making here is that based on my experience and my experience only I would not trust John to refund the $15 let alone $1500.
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        • Profile picture of the author MaxwellB
          Originally Posted by ginnysclub1 View Post

          The point is - I did follow up the question and he didn't get back to me.

          But anyways maybe you're right, maybe I should've been prepared to say something that i thougth might have been BS without an explanation and I shouldn't have asked for more information - after all, John is a very busy and important man and who am I?

          The point that I am making here is that based on my experience and my experience only I would not trust John to refund the $15 let alone $1500.
          Fair enough, based on your experience.

          Well when you have proof (written contract or recorded verbal agreement) that someone did in fact offer a full money back guarantee it's kind of hard to not refund the money if it was paid by credit card. Any credit card company would side with the customer. Now check that's a different story, the words mean nothing and it's all up to the vendor.
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by MaxwellB View Post

        Wait, so you asked him a question about something within the report, and you didn't respond so you requested a refund?

        ....I'd say to ignore you was the nicest possible thing he could have done. I applaud him for not saying what I would have said.

        Buying his report does not in any way shape or form mean that he has to be on call for you to ask questions to about it. You should have followed up your question and he would have gotten back to you.
        I prefer to answer most questions on the forum for everyones benefit. Its more efficient. Most common questions I have answered here a million times.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by ginnysclub1 View Post

      I suppose you will get the Mods to withdraw or take down this post. I did not post anything before because to do so would break the forums rules. However, in this instance, my comment is related to the topic.

      I understand that I have probably upset a lot of people on this forum because John is one of the big boys. But reading your post about giving refunds made my blood boil.
      For one the bower reports had a thread with a million replies leading up to it, andf your question was probably already answered, as well as having ad copy that was two miles long on the sales page, if you didnt know what you were buying I feel sorry for you.

      Secondly, It sold well over 600 copies within a week, so I apologize if I didnt see your email... such hate over that?

      Thirdly, if your post gets deleted its because you are breaking the rules by posting this here instead of the thread where it belongs.

      Fourthly, if something like me missing a refund email after having six hundred sales in a week , over $24.00 is enough to make your blood boil, then you have serious problems that no answer from me is going to solve.

      You do know how to request a refund through pay pal right if thats the case?

      I have no pending refunds in my box so Im assuming you handled it.

      Thanks.

      Ps. If you didnt use the system that I demonstrated and it didnt work for you, then why ask in the first place, it wasnt my fault if the pitch wasnt your style.

      In any event I apologize for missing your email which asked a question that I have already covered in the midst of 300 other emails, and Im sorry that if I didnt see your refund request that you didnt submit one through pay pal.

      Again, if thats enough to make your blood boil, or post harmful things like this, then maybe you should seek some counseling.

      Lastly, the bower formula had less than a one percent refund rate so your feelings are WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY deep in the minority, might want to ask yourself what makes you one of the 1 in a hundred people who couldnt grasp the value. Everyone else saw it fine.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Williamson
    Great post, John.

    I agree with your approach. It makes sense, as you said, to go ahead and offer the USP since you would have to refund someone anyway if they were to ask for one. Never really looked at it that way, though I do already try to incorporate some sort of risk-free "guarantee" into every service I offer.

    For the skeptics, I believe the hugely increased conversion rate will vastly outweigh the potential cost of refunds. In other words, the money you make from more sales as a result of using the USP will more than make up for the potential loss that may result from refunding some of those people, if that even occurs. I've always felt, like I said in my recent thread, that simply by offering such a guarantee you are already increasing and enhancing your perceived value and trustworthiness in the eyes of the client or customer.

    Then you get the added residual effect of them telling other people "Hey this guy's willing to offer a money-back guarantee on a $1500 product, he must really deliver!"
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  • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
    I have personally witnessed a few companies "sell" a money back guarantee.
    It did not turn out well for them in the long run.

    If you are going to do it, you can not leave it open ended. it needs a
    definitive ending point.

    Also, i would recommend recording every call, in its entirety, not just the button up

    and one more suggestion, especially if you plan on adding tsr's.

    In house compliance officer(s)

    i am around if its something you want to discuss.
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    Selling Ain't for Sissies!
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

      I have personally witnessed a few companies "sell" a money back guarantee.
      It did not turn out well for them in the long run.

      If you are going to do it, you can not leave it open ended. it needs a
      definitive ending point.

      Also, i would recommend recording every call, in its entirety, not just the button up

      and one more suggestion, especially if you plan on adding tsr's.

      In house compliance officer(s)

      i am around if its something you want to discuss.
      I'll be around, I locked myself off skype for a few days so I could get some stuff done...
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Nguyen
        I tried the money back guarantee after I studied some Jay Abraham material and believe me when I say this, IT WORKS. You gotta have the balls and confidence to pull it off though.

        Case study
        This was for an SEO client. They previously did some SEO with their current provider but they weren't happy with the progress or the speed at which the site was moving in the SE's.

        We came in with a mini site SEO audit / competitor analysis and started educating the client. By the way this was a warm lead so it should have been easier to close.

        We educated them on the importance of links etc and how the current provider didn't look like they did proper SEO. We explained them the nature of SEO and how some companies take up to 90% profit and hence the slow movement in the rankings.

        Part of their budget will be used on link building ie specifically buying links and that we'll take 40% profit etc. Meeting ended with them promising to get back to us after the read the report

        2nd week - We followed up etc, the client had conflicting opinions with the report and their current provider. More emails back and forth.

        3rd week - I finally got the client on the phone. It was make or break time. The client decided that they wanted to work with their existing provider and I thought we lost the sale there as it seemed the client had made up their mind. In came the
        money back gaurantee...

        I said to the client:

        "With your £1,000 budet, we'll only take 30% profit because we want to prove to you we can do the job. 70% of the budget will be reinvested back into your site via links.

        If we don't see any improvement in the next 3 months, we'll give you back the profit we would have taken ie £900. After 3 months we can re-evaluate the amount of profit we take."

        Deal was done and dusted

        End of month 1 now and YES.. I have reinvested all £700 as promised

        One of the things Jay Abrahams says is that when you assume all the risk, the client is more receptive to your offer and that's what we did here. I'm kinda amazed it worked, didn't think it would.

        As long as you know you can deliver and you have the confidence, you'll close all day long with a money back guarantee. Try it
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Looks like we have haters here... I dont know that they are even real customers.
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    • Profile picture of the author MaxwellB
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      Looks like we have haters here... I dont know that they are even real customers.
      Only one, and I think he just made assumptions.
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  • Profile picture of the author FormerWageSlave
    Sure, I'm being pedantic, and it's honestly not a big deal, but I think you're conflating USP and risk reversal. Not really the same things.
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    grrr...

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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by FormerWageSlave View Post

      Sure, I'm being pedantic, and it's honestly not a big deal, but I think you're conflating USP and risk reversal. Not really the same things.
      Please expound.
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Nguyen
        Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

        Please expound.
        It can be both but in a general sense, a money back guarantee is more risk reversal than USP.

        If you're the ONLY guy in town that offers a money back guarantee, then it's a USP but if everyone or a few are doing the same thing then it just means you're risk reversal has to be better.

        USP is more like

        "We can reduce your cost by 55% better than any other product on the market"

        The risk reversal money back guarantee is something that anyone can do if the product is a commodity.

        The money back gaurantee can be used both as a USP and for risk reversal depending on your market.

        When we approach client's our main selling point is the risk reversal because our service is a commodity.

        But you knew this already. I feel like I'm lecturing an already pro You have more experience than me but this is my understanding.
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  • Profile picture of the author bluecoyotemedia
    John

    guys like you are a dying breed my friend. I think at this point with your experience you can sell ice to Eskimos


    BUT I bet without ever meeting you.. I can say you probably have a problem handling money..

    you remind me of gary halbert.. I have known Gary for 2 year stint when he moved to costa rica

    this guy was brilliant but money used to come to him and he would blow it terrible at managing funds

    when he died .. he died NOT broke but not where he should have been

    eddie
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by bluecoyotemedia View Post

      John

      guys like you are a dying breed my friend. I think at this point with your experience you can sell ice to Eskimos


      BUT I bet without ever meeting you.. I can say you probably have a problem handling money..

      you remind me of gary halbert.. I have known Gary for 2 year stint when he moved to costa rica

      this guy was brilliant but money used to come to him and he would blow it terrible at managing funds

      when he died .. he died NOT broke but not where he should have been

      eddie
      You have me pegged. I tend to give it away alot, not only in my personal life but in business... and tend to think "As long as everyone else is happy then Im happy...." so I go extra compensation lengths to make sure everyone is happy... Not "Broke" but yeah, you pretty much got me, and I wouldnt be shocked if I died that way, its 50/50 lol

      Good eye!
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  • Profile picture of the author Gary Zaydman
    I always offer money back guarantee because I know I can deliver the results and the goods.
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  • Profile picture of the author vndnbrgj
    I agree that a "Money Back Guarantee" could be part of a USP, but not the whole USP.
    I would be more than willing to help, but not quite sure I understand fully what you will be offering.
    Something like Michael said, is more of a USP.
    You could do, "We will help reduce your advertising expenses by 25% while at the same time increasing business or your money back, guaranteed."
    Now, you just have to back it. If they get 1 new customer, their business has increased.
    As far as advertising expenses, again just an example. Not sure what you are offering.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Thanks for all of the wisdom guys and gals. I do feel in our industry that it is somewhat of a "Unique Sales Proposition".... When you put it in those terms does it sound more like it?
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    • Profile picture of the author Kunle Olomofe
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      Thanks for all of the wisdom guys and gals. I do feel in our industry that it is somewhat of a "Unique Sales Proposition".... When you put it in those terms does it sound more like it?
      Hi John,

      It's indeed a good idea to offer to take on the risk when soliciting projects from offline businesses, however I have found that some companies (usually the larger ones and also some smaller mom and pop types and those in between) really don't feel comfortable talking to an "expert" who offers to pay them back "in case he/she disappoints them".

      I've found they decide to write that check only after they feel virtually guaranteed that you CAN and WILL deliver--no matter what. I've found they prefer to work with a company that will go ALL OUT to deliver and not one that comes back saying "Sorry, here's your money back".

      For some I've worked with, when that cash goes out they don't WANT it back, they WANT what they ordered on time and within budget and if you can't guarantee THAT they would prefer to go with someone who does (whether or not they BS them is another matter) they want someone so sure that he doesn't need to guarantee paying them back.

      They don't need their money back cos before it goes out they've gone through some serious processes that would be somewhat compromised by having to put the money back in their coffers.

      I guess it's just a mindset factor and what they are used to... paying out and getting what they paid for, not having to worry about going through sometimes an often lengthy, costly process of choosing ANOTHER service provider for something they already signed off on.

      Not sure all that rambling made sense, but I hope it somewhat does

      Bottom line, like I said John's advice is solid but I'd be careful about going this route unless you know for certain your prospects are geared towards the money back guarantee mindset.

      Hope that helps someone.

      Cheers

      Kunle
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  • Profile picture of the author vndnbrgj
    On another note... it doesn't have to be a USP.
    It could be a EVP or extra value proposition.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by vndnbrgj View Post

      On another note... it doesn't have to be a USP.
      It could be a EVP or extra value proposition.
      "Hey Bob, I'd like to offer you what I call an 'Extra Value Proposition' "

      I like it!
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  • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
    This model is successful based on what you are actually making the Guarantee for.

    If you are providing services to local small businesses and telling them you will get them ranked on the first page of Google you could be in for some MAJOR problems because you aren't in control no matter what you think or what methods you use. I'm assuming that we are talking about ranking or leads as this is in the offline section, if not please correct me John.

    You can't base a guarantee on something you aren't in 100% control of, plain and simple so I hope no one is making a guarantee based on rankings performance.

    However...

    You can make a guarantee that you'll provide X amount of whatever it is each month and if you don't do that it entitles your client to request a refund.

    Smart and astute business owners will see right through the ranking guarantee and know that we are in zero control of those results, in turn for those owners who do catch this flaw; you'll be viewed as a sham.
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