Banging My Head Against The Wall (Cold Calling Related)

37 replies
Hey guys... this isn't really about me, and it's more of a vent than anything else but I didn't know where else to post it.

Anyway, I've become reasonably successful at cold calling thanks to JD and iamnameless. I say "reasonably" because if I did it more consistently I'd be making more than I am but that's not the issue..

I had a friend of mine beg me for a job. He has semi decent phone skills from other jobs he's had, and I figured if I gave him a commission only slot, it would help both of us... it's not like he has anything else to do anyway but play WoW and FB games (he is 26).

I had him read JD's free telemarketing report (same way I got started) as well as Payoman's. He says he "understands" and it seems "easy"

We role played, he did fine. He started making calls. I said "you need to make at least 100 a day."

First day he makes 40 calls. Does manage to get some interest, but fails to follow up.

Then he asks me questions that seem like he is not paying attention, or something is going on with him and his basic understanding...

I say "Don't worry about it, just use the script like we went over, if they say no, hang up, if they say yes go from there." This works for a few days.

Then he asks me "How do I turn a no into a yes" I say... "don't worry, don't waste your breath right now not our market, thank them, hang up move on"

He keeps calling. We have more conversations like this where he asks me things like... "what he should say if.." and I tell him, even though he has the PDF's and a script... I'm practically spoon feeding him all the way to the close which he wouldn't really flat out ask for payment at the follow-up even though I explained how important that is... but he starts whining.

It's not working because he says he needs a list of what we offer (he knows what we offer, one thing to start) we need to make canned packages, we need to lower our pricing, he needs business cards, he needs a portfolio of his own, he needs "more tips on how to do this kind of thing"...

This morning, he says to me "your information is worthless, it doesn't work, I don't care about all the crap you're talking to me about, I have to get through to these people first.."

Again, calmly I say "Look, I started like this, and it works but you have to keep calling. I gave you a huge lead list and somewhere in there are YES men who will make up for the "No" people. Don't over complicate this... when I started it was about 1/100 people... when you get good/better that ratio will improve.."

THEN he says "well, that's stupid, it shouldn't be 1/100... you should have a good enough offer and delivery that EVERYONE buys into it.."

Seriously, it took me a moment to respond but I was shocked considering at this point all the times we've discussed things like this..

I said again "It is not your job to CONVINCE people.. they either get it or they don't, they want it or they don't.. your job is to find the people who do, talk to them, and close them..."

I feel like I am banging my head into a wall... seriously. I want to help him, but... I mean seriously, this is the easiest money to make... oh well... it's still frustrating though.
#banging #calling #cold #head #related #wall
  • Profile picture of the author kebertt
    You can do one of two things...

    -Try to educate him more.
    -Fire him and hire someone else who will help your business grow.

    It sounds like he doesn't understands the value of cold calling, or how the business works. Does he understand your services that you are offering? If he's not motivated to find leads for your business, kindly move on and find someone that is.
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    • Profile picture of the author HAdrian1239
      Originally Posted by kebertt View Post

      You can do one of two things...

      -Try to educate him more.
      -Fire him and hire someone else who will help your business grow.

      It sounds like he doesn't understands the value of cold calling, or how the business works. Does he understand your services that you are offering? If he's not motivated to find leads for your business, kindly move on and find someone that is.
      Well, I'm having him start with offering websites, and he understands the value of those based on some prior conversations.. but I really don't think he understands the business... not my biz in particular, but business in general.. so that might be part of it. There are some confidence issues too.

      But, the thing is, I still have confidence issues, I still screw up, but I keep moving forward... because eventually someone will fit the profile and become a client... it always happens... and it happens a lot faster than if I sat around doing nothing... haha.
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      • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
        Originally Posted by HAdrian1239 View Post

        Well, I'm having him start with offering websites, and he understands the value of those based on some prior conversations.. but I really don't think he understands the business... not my biz in particular, but business in general.. so that might be part of it. There are some confidence issues too.

        But, the thing is, I still have confidence issues, I still screw up, but I keep moving forward... because eventually someone will fit the profile and become a client... it always happens... and it happens a lot faster than if I sat around doing nothing... haha.

        Its your business, you CARE so you keep pushing forward...
        he has no reason to care, he is just in it for a paycheck.
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        Selling Ain't for Sissies!
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        • Profile picture of the author PatrickIcasas
          Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

          Its your business, you CARE so you keep pushing foward...
          he has no reason to care, he is just in it for a paycheck.
          Besides which, cold-calling is a hard gig even for full-time sales professionals. It is the most reviled sales task of them all. So a total newbie is not going to respond to that well unless he has powerful motivation (like owning the business).
          Signature

          Write. Edit. Rinse. Repeat.
          http://patrickicasas.com

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        • Profile picture of the author HAdrian1239
          Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

          Its your business, you CARE so you keep pushing foward...
          he has no reason to care, he is just in it for a paycheck.
          Very true, but you'd think he'd WANT to keep pushing to make sales to generate that paycheck because he's "soooo desperate for money and wants to leave a bad home situation"

          That said, as much as I feel for him, I can't keep spoon feeding someone who isn't willing to work the process... so I just booted him. He's asking me to "prove" to him where all my success and successful friends came from....uh... wow.

          OK bucko- have fun with your "job" hunt... I'll take your lead list back and go through it myself once I finish the others I am working on.
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          • HAdrian1239

            do what you have to do.

            sometimes good intentions, aren't satisfied on the other side.
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          • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
            Originally Posted by HAdrian1239 View Post

            Very true, but you'd think he'd WANT to keep pushing to make sales to generate that paycheck because he's "soooo desperate for money and wants to leave a bad home situation"
            Go getters think that way. Reality proves otherwise.

            Most people are in their situation because of their own decisions and choices. It doesn't seem to me he wants out.

            I had a friend too, 26, has a kid, a pregnant girlfriend (now not pregnant, baby arrived a couple weeks ago) and he was desperate for money, still living with his mom. Had him start and the first day was his best. Each following day got worse because he stopped calling as much, he wasn't feeling it, and made excuses. He said the script didn't work, so I spent an hour in front of him and made a one call close.

            Some people just don't get it. Eventually it will "click" but only if they last and care enough to just get it.

            My advice... don't waste your time. If a prospect says no, you keep moving right? If an employee doesn't get it, you have to move on.

            It's tough because you have the friend situation. I had to fire my friend..
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  • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
    People are either trainable, coachable, both or neither.

    Those who aren't trainable or coachable aren't a fit for you, unfortunately.
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  • Profile picture of the author Shizster
    Shame it didn't work out, having mates work for you can some times work out fine but when it isn't working its hard to deal with it. Dont sell a second hand car to a mate come to mind..... give him a few weeks and all will be fine and go back to being mates, plus he will be level 85 by then and grinding for his epic helm of of dismay in wow.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rearden
    Business rule #1: Never hire friends or family.

    The Golden Rule: Nobody's going to care nearly as much about your business as you do.

    And, lastly, "You can't fix stupid."
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    David Duford -- Providing On-Going, Personalized Mentorship And Training From A Real Final Expense Producer To Agents New To The Final Expense Life Insurance Business.
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  • Profile picture of the author HAdrian1239
    So, after I told him it wasn't working out... he launched into this tirade about my business acumen and how I'm just a screw up, because if I weren't I'd be "not just scraping by" and it's my fault he couldn't make it work..

    And blah blah blah...

    Yea...I'm not where I want to be financially yet... but my financial goals are huge, and I've got some other bills to take care of, completely before I'll be "where I want to be.."

    I also took a chance last year and moved to a completely new state that's expensive to live in.. all on my own, sure it's been hard and I've dealt with shit I never thought I would have to, but I did it, I am not on the street and I'm breathing... I will look back on this and be proud...

    While he's still living at home not paying rent.... so it's like comparing apples vs oranges.

    What he's saying is irrelevant and a projection of his own BS honestly, it was hilarious, but so out of line. He earned himself being blocked from my Skype.
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    • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
      Originally Posted by HAdrian1239 View Post

      So, after I told him it wasn't working out... he launched into this tirade about my business acumen and how I'm just a screw up, because if I weren't I'd be "not just scraping by" and it's my fault he couldn't make it work..

      And blah blah blah...

      Yea...I'm not where I want to be financially yet... but my financial goals are huge, and I've got some other bills to take care of, completely before I'll be "where I want to be.."

      I also took a chance last year and moved to a completely new state that's expensive to live in.. all on my own, sure it's been hard and I've dealt with shit I never thought I would have to, but I did it, I am not on the street and I'm breathing... I will look back on this and be proud...

      While he's still living at home not paying rent.... so it's like comparing apples vs oranges.

      What he's saying is irrelevant and a projection of his own BS honestly, it was hilarious, but so out of line. He earned himself being blocked from my Skype.
      Whiners ... whine ... Quitters .... quit.

      Don't take it to heart, it is in their nature to try and pull
      everyone else down to their level, once reality bitch slaps them.
      Signature

      Selling Ain't for Sissies!
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  • Profile picture of the author shane_k
    Originally Posted by HAdrian1239 View Post



    Hey guys... this isn't really about me, and it's more of a vent than anything else but I didn't know where else to post it.




    Seems to me that this is partly about you



    Even though you hired a "friend" he became your "employee" as soon as you hired him. And he would have started looking to you for answers and help because you now became his "boss."



    I notice you kept pointing him to the PDF because all the answer are in there, but he might have needed more than that.


    He might have needed confidence in you, reassurance from you, but instead it seems all he got was "it's in the pdf" and "don't worry about it"

    this tells me that you aren't skilled enough yourself to be trying to train him in cold calling.

    Not meaning to attack you or anything but to point out to you that having employees is more than just giving them a pdf and expecting them to take things from there and be 100% effective.

    You need to show leadership, knowledge, expertise, flexibiliiy, and understanding. These things will help your employees to trust you, believe in you, and believe in your company and what you are doing.

    I do not think you were able to provide those kind of things and that just frustrated your friend/employee.

    So instead of just ranting about how awfule he was see if you can look at it as a learning experience for yourself as the "boss" and how you communicate, educate, train, etc your "employees"
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    • Profile picture of the author HAdrian1239
      Originally Posted by shane_k View Post

      Seems to me that this is partly about you



      Even though you hired a "friend" he became your "employee" as soon as you hired him. And he would have started looking to you for answers and help because you now became his "boss."



      I notice you kept pointing him to the PDF because all the answer are in there, but he might have needed more than that.


      He might have needed confidence in you, reassurance from you, but instead it seems all he got was "it's in the pdf" and "don't worry about it"

      this tells me that you aren't skilled enough yourself to be trying to train him in cold calling.

      Not meaning to attack you or anything but to point out to you that having employees is more than just giving them a pdf and expecting them to take things from there and be 100% effective.

      You need to show leadership, knowledge, expertise, flexibiliiy, and understanding. These things will help your employees to trust you, believe in you, and believe in your company and what you are doing.

      I do not think you were able to provide those kind of things and that just frustrated your friend/employee.

      So instead of just ranting about how awfule he was see if you can look at it as a learning experience for yourself as the "boss" and how you communicate, educate, train, etc your "employees"
      I don't want you to think I just "pointed him" to the PDF. I had him read the PDF's as a base.... he's been working with me intensively for 2.5 weeks now, and has generated interest, but then doesn't follow up "cause it's my birthday" "cause I was playing WoW" or whatever. He's closed no sales, and made every excuse about why it doesn't work or what I need to do to change it.

      I did substantial role playing with him.
      I was on Skype with him the entire time he was calling people, and coaching him through what to say.

      We also talked by phone before and after his shifts (most of them)

      He was excited at first, but then faded and the allure of other things took over, and his "dad" was telling him how he needed to "do stuff differently."

      His dad has no business experience.

      At a certain point, it became him not following through, not following the script, questioning WHY it works, and asking me the same questions that we just spent time covering... over and over.

      Am I a perfect "boss?" No... no one is perfect, but I took a chance because he is good at talking to people and I thought he would be coachable... but it didn't work that way.

      I was available, and held his hand as much as I could through the exact same steps that I took to BE successful.

      If I should have done something else, well... OK... but bosses also shouldn't have to chase your employees to work, or micro-manage them either... and empoyees shouldn't tell me that they "understand, it's so easy and makes sense, they can "handle it" when it's obvious that they can't because they're not producing results...

      The thing is...as long as you meet your quota or show some initiative I don't care when you call or don't... but he did the bare minimum, and it showed.

      I still like the guy, but there was no reason for the tirade he went on after we finished our last discussion today, so he's blocked and I don't have the time or energy for that mess.
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      • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
        Originally Posted by HAdrian1239 View Post


        I did substantial role playing with him.
        I was on Skype with him the entire time he was calling people, and coaching him through what to say.

        We also talked by phone before and after his shifts (most of them)
        This is a big issue. I know it sounds sexy to have people working from home, for you, but it isn't realistic in 99% of the cases. I had my friend working HERE.

        When someone is working from home, they likely will be distracted, doing other things and they have no REAL accountability.

        Having someone in person, chances are they won't work out. Having someone work from home, the odds are even more against you.
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        • Profile picture of the author HAdrian1239
          Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

          This is a big issue. I know it sounds sexy to have people working from home, for you, but it isn't realistic in 99% of the cases. I had my friend working HERE.

          When someone is working from home, they likely will be distracted, doing other things and they have no REAL accountability.

          Having someone in person, chances are they won't work out. Having someone work from home, the odds are even more against you.
          Yea, I know that now for sure. I was trying to help him make money so he could come out here, and work with me in person... but before the job offer, he just wanted me to "fly him out" and basically pay his entire way, food, place to stay and all that...

          Which, I didn't want to do for so many reasons... namely because he assumed it, instead of even saying "hey, can you maybe help me out by..."

          That honestly should have showed me something right there... that it wouldn't work out because he's not motivated to want to provide for himself and instead expects everyone to just give him stuff...

          I mean, look, he's still a good guy, and I've been where he is now... but I didn't stay in that kind of frame of mind you know... I, like Payoman... got tired and took steps to climb out, come what may.

          For now, it's just going to be me working, and that's fine by me!
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          • Profile picture of the author mil0x
            Not a lot of people have the skill (or should I say patience) to teach..
            I know myself, I eventually just get fed up with someone that "doesn't get it". I'm always the first person my family calls when there's a computer-related issue, they always watch while I solve it, I tell them what I do, easy-peezy (in my mind).. yet they just won't get how the damn thing works
            Reading your post here reminded me of that. Sometimes its a lot more effective for your business to do stuff yourself than trying to teach/manage someone how they can, it takes a whole new range of skills as explained above.
            Good luck on all your endeavours, you seem to be driven enough
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      • Profile picture of the author shane_k
        Originally Posted by HAdrian1239 View Post

        I don't want you to think I just "pointed him" to the PDF. I had him read the PDF's as a base.... he's been working with me intensively for 2.5 weeks now, and has generated interest, but then doesn't follow up "cause it's my birthday" "cause I was playing WoW" or whatever. He's closed no sales, and made every excuse about why it doesn't work or what I need to do to change it.

        I did substantial role playing with him.
        I was on Skype with him the entire time he was calling people, and coaching him through what to say.

        We also talked by phone before and after his shifts (most of them)

        He was excited at first, but then faded and the allure of other things took over, and his "dad" was telling him how he needed to "do stuff differently."

        His dad has no business experience.

        At a certain point, it became him not following through, not following the script, questioning WHY it works, and asking me the same questions that we just spent time covering... over and over.

        Am I a perfect "boss?" No... no one is perfect, but I took a chance because he is good at talking to people and I thought he would be coachable... but it didn't work that way.

        I was available, and held his hand as much as I could through the exact same steps that I took to BE successful.

        If I should have done something else, well... OK... but bosses also shouldn't have to chase your employees to work, or micro-manage them either... and empoyees shouldn't tell me that they "understand, it's so easy and makes sense, they can "handle it" when it's obvious that they can't because they're not producing results...

        The thing is...as long as you meet your quota or show some initiative I don't care when you call or don't... but he did the bare minimum, and it showed.

        I still like the guy, but there was no reason for the tirade he went on after we finished our last discussion today, so he's blocked and I don't have the time or energy for that mess.
        Well from this post I can see that you put a lot of effort into this guy. That did not come across in your first post.

        There will be some employees who need hand holding at the start especially if they are not experienced, and at the same time you are right you shouldn't have to chase your employees to work.

        It can be hard to find the balance between those two things.

        But that is a part of the process of learning the skill of managing, training, hiring and firing employees.

        I know that you will come out of this with more knowledge and know what to look for in the future, and with this experience you will be able to cut employees quicker and move onto to more valuable ones who actually do put in more effort
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  • Profile picture of the author shane_k
    If I could give one piece of advice to most warriors who are interested in Offline Consulting it would be to work for 6-12 months in a business as an assistent manager or as a manager.

    This will give you an idea of what it's like to manage your employees. How to hire them, train them, motivate them, build them into a team, or fire them.

    This is something that is not talked about at all on in this forum and also in the main forum.

    Managing people is not a piece of cake. It takes skill, effort, and time.

    It is a whole new skill set that you as a entrepreneur have to develop while you are building your business.
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    • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
      Originally Posted by shane_k View Post

      If I could give one piece of advice to most warriors who are interested in Offline Consulting it would be to work for 6-12 months in a business as an assistent manager or as a manager.

      This will give you an idea of what it's like to manage your employees. How to hire them, train them, motivate them, build them into a team, or fire them.

      This is something that is not talked about at all on in this forum and also in the main forum.

      Managing people is not a piece of cake. It takes skill, effort, and time.

      It is a whole new skill set that you as a entrepreneur have to develop while you are building your business.
      You're absolutely correct. It is SO overlooked here and yet, such an important thing.

      I think it's overlooked quite a bit because so many people are having problems just to have SOME success. That is where to focus is, just to get people to achieve a small level of success.

      What you mentioned is something that takes people from a tiny bit of success to the possibility of FULL SCALE SUCCESS.

      Great post.
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    • Profile picture of the author Aaron Doud
      Originally Posted by shane_k View Post

      If I could give one piece of advice to most warriors who are interested in Offline Consulting it would be to work for 6-12 months in a business as an assistent manager or as a manager.

      This will give you an idea of what it's like to manage your employees. How to hire them, train them, motivate them, build them into a team, or fire them.

      This is something that is not talked about at all on in this forum and also in the main forum.

      Managing people is not a piece of cake. It takes skill, effort, and time.

      It is a whole new skill set that you as a entrepreneur have to develop while you are building your business.
      Some of the best advice here ever. Management is a learned skill like any other. Getting paid to learn it is great and I am so glad I had years to learn it.

      Too many people who own their own business don't have the skills to run a business. Many would be better off taking a year or so to learn on the job in a management position at another company.
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      • The best motivational speech I ever heard .
        When I was doing commission based work for insurance company I had to do lots of cold calling.
        This is what my team leader told me :

        Lets say we have average commisssion of 400$ per customer.
        If you doing phone calls 80 of 100 people will say NO.
        20 of 100 will say maybe/why not.
        From this 20 people about 4 will agree to make an appointment.
        From this 4 people 1 person will buy insurance.

        So , for every "NO" you are get paid 4$ .

        Sounds different now isn`t ?
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  • Profile picture of the author Sander Zaydman
    Hey, I started my first business doing cold calling. Now, have a person who i trained to do it and have a recorded call that she got the appointment. PM me if you want to listen to the call.
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    Now sure how much to charge for your local marketing services?
    Add me on Facebook and I'll give you access to my Local Marketing Consultant Group....

    www.facebook.com/sander.zaydman

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  • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
    I use Pamela for Skype with a skype phone #.

    When I call, my calls are recorded. When I do coaching, they're recorded. My clients get their recordings. Everyone is happy because they know what they're getting.

    If you use this system, you'll know at least what the first 50 calls sound like.
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    • Profile picture of the author payoman
      Hadrian, this friend of yours sounds almost EXACTLY like my best friend.

      See, my best friend asked to do the exact same thing, 'work for me' and help out etc. But I knew his attitude towards life, which sounds almost identical to your friends...And it's funny, because I think I have a bit of this attitude in me still...it's kind of fading, since I hit hard times and REALLY knew what it was like to have nothing....

      But it's the attitude of expecting to have everything handed to you. Also, another big part of it is the numbers game. People aren't USED to playing numbers games that are HARD and usually BORING. The uncertainty is too much for them.

      Cold calling, ESPECIALLY for a newbie, is HARD, BORING and usually DEGRADING. See, I had the privilege of experience cold approaching women for dates for about 3 years before I started cold calling, so I had a big headstart on getting used to rejection. MANY MANY MANY MANY people don't have that or similar experience, and aren't willing to get it.

      I am like you though, I'd LOVE to hire someone on to do the calling, because really I want the 4 hour work week lifestyle (although nameless and countless others have sort of proved it's a bit of a joke) because in truth, I am more focused on having freedom than having a big, successful company. I just want cash in my pocket and time to do what I wanna do.

      So it sounds like you made the right decision to me, either way. You got rid of him and you are ready to move forward and perhaps try others. I am actually pretty disturbed by his spiel about you 'just scraping by'...what, as if every successful business just had smooth sailing? He REALLY doesn't have any clue, as you even said yourself, all he knows about is World of Warcraft.

      Sounds like you are doing fine to me, try to aim to 50 calls a day and I can't see how you could go wrong. It's been working for me, it's slow and steady, but it gets you there.
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      • Well, my experience - money and friends don`t mix.
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      • Profile picture of the author HAdrian1239
        Originally Posted by payoman View Post

        Hadrian, this friend of yours sounds almost EXACTLY like my best friend.

        See, my best friend asked to do the exact same thing, 'work for me' and help out etc. But I knew his attitude towards life, which sounds almost identical to your friends...And it's funny, because I think I have a bit of this attitude in me still...it's kind of fading, since I hit hard times and REALLY knew what it was like to have nothing....

        But it's the attitude of expecting to have everything handed to you. Also, another big part of it is the numbers game. People aren't USED to playing numbers games that are HARD and usually BORING. The uncertainty is too much for them.

        Cold calling, ESPECIALLY for a newbie, is HARD, BORING and usually DEGRADING. See, I had the privilege of experience cold approaching women for dates for about 3 years before I started cold calling, so I had a big headstart on getting used to rejection. MANY MANY MANY MANY people don't have that or similar experience, and aren't willing to get it.

        I am like you though, I'd LOVE to hire someone on to do the calling, because really I want the 4 hour work week lifestyle (although nameless and countless others have sort of proved it's a bit of a joke) because in truth, I am more focused on having freedom than having a big, successful company. I just want cash in my pocket and time to do what I wanna do.

        So it sounds like you made the right decision to me, either way. You got rid of him and you are ready to move forward and perhaps try others. I am actually pretty disturbed by his spiel about you 'just scraping by'...what, as if every successful business just had smooth sailing? He REALLY doesn't have any clue, as you even said yourself, all he knows about is World of Warcraft.

        Sounds like you are doing fine to me, try to aim to 50 calls a day and I can't see how you could go wrong. It's been working for me, it's slow and steady, but it gets you there.
        Thanks for the encouragement Luke! I'm doing OK, but sometimes I still am not as consistent as I would like. However, at the same time... that's no one's fault but my own you know?

        I've overcome a lot in my life in 26 years, and have done tons of things that people said I'd never do... I've heard "no" and "impossible" a lot... so the rejection just kind of trickles off like water... but you're right, slogging through calls can get boring, so I tend to procrastinate... I've always done that though, just ask my teachers... whoops!

        If I want my business to succeed (one of my main goals right now is...I want to pay off my debt but... I also want to be able to go to medical school overseas as strange as that might sound.... and to do it all without loans... which will cost about $20,000 a year plus living and travel expenses...) If I want those big things...I have to do them myself.

        No one is going to do it for me. Sometimes, in spite of knowing this I still slack off, and... like you from your report, I've been fortunate enough for the most part to have parents or family members who would help me out financially if I needed it... but who wants that?

        I don't, not really... so again, I'm the one who has to bust my butt. What's that quote... something about true business people work a couple of years like most people won't, so they can spend the rest of their lives like most people can't... that's what I want... LOL.

        But, it's not an easy climb... that said, cool things in life are not often easy to obtain... so.. whatever. At some point I'd like to build it up enough to be able to hire/find a manager I trust... who handles all the employees and day to day stuff, and I just check in as needed and focus on other areas... but that's a long way off.... we'll both get there though if we keep at it and work smart with more than a bit of elbow grease!
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  • Profile picture of the author Mav91890
    Hey Hadrian, was following your last thread. Were you successful in phone closing?
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    • Profile picture of the author HAdrian1239
      Originally Posted by Mav91890 View Post

      Hey Hadrian, was following your last thread. Were you successful in phone closing?
      Yep. Finally got it.

      Not a pro by any means, but it's actually fairly easy, especially if you started with the path of least resistance anyway.. I will revive that thread and talk about my stuff more when I have time to get specific... right now things are crazy...
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  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
    I have seen the exact same scenario play out dozens of times. What your friend is saying isn't stupid, it's typical. Your reaction is also typical.

    Your friend may not be able to be saved. He now thinks he knows more than you. You can't really reverse that. Save the friendship, and hire someone else....someone who is not a friend and you can fire quickly if there is a problem.

    I don't know the whole situation, but I would close the sales myself. He sounds like most people: Bright, articulate, friendly, eager to learn...and absolutely not able to ask for the business. All that "we need business cards" stuff is him grasping at straws because he has no idea how to close. It takes more than memorizing lines. Most people freeze up at the close, and it stalls....and they send information...and they start getting things printed...because closing is not what they want to do. Pay him by the hour and have him turn the interested prospects over to "My Manager".

    I may be way off here, but this is based on your post.

    It sounds like you have some skills. Good luck.
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    • Profile picture of the author HAdrian1239
      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

      I have seen the exact same scenario play out dozens of times. What your friend is saying isn't stupid, it's typical. Your reaction is also typical.

      Your friend may not be able to be saved. He now thinks he knows more than you. You can't really reverse that. Save the friendship, and hire someone else....someone who is not a friend and you can fire quickly if there is a problem.

      I don't know the whole situation, but I would close the sales myself. He sounds like most people: Bright, articulate, friendly, eager to learn...and absolutely not able to ask for the business. All that "we need business cards" stuff is him grasping at straws because he has no idea how to close. It takes more than memorizing lines. Most people freeze up at the close, and it stalls....and they send information...and they start getting things printed...because closing is not what they want to do. Pay him by the hour and have him turn the interested prospects over to "My Manager".

      I may be way off here, but this is based on your post.

      It sounds like you have some skills. Good luck.
      Thanks Claude. Yea. I noticed that with him. He IS bright and has a lot of potential, he's good with people... but, he doesn't always think things through... not because he can't... but just because it's "harder." He likes to talk about a lot of things, but is not so much about the "working to make them happen" part... not just in this situation but in his life in general.

      I understand where he comes from, I had to break out of it too and take responsibility for my own stuff, sometimes, especially lately I still slip up and get very lazy...

      But from my covos with him lately.. he is not in a place where he can or is willing to put in the "sweat equity.." He's used to instant gratification... and playing the numbers is... as Luke said above "too uncertain" e.g. with his comment "you should have an offer that's so good everyone takes you up on it, not just 1/100.."

      We know that's not true, and is impossible, especially for someone starting out.. but if they're not committed to working it, they won't get any better... and..

      It's not his fault entirely... he's young, and is basically afraid of his own shadow in the sense of not wanting to deviate off the path of...

      "well, society says I graduate from HS, and then go to college, and then get a menial job if I'm lucky and slave away until I retire, buried in debt." Before he came to me, he was excited about a 6 day a week, $9 an hour back breaking manual labor job... and I... can't be excited about those kinds of things anymore. More power to those who do that stuff, and can... for realz!

      He on the other hand.... doesn't see how it could work so much more in his favor, to do something different... and, he still listens to people's opinions... i.e. his father who, in spite of knowing nothing about my business, what we were doing and having no/minimal business experience himself, was telling his son what he should be doing to "better" my system and all the reasons it wasn't working... i.e. "you need to have set packages, you need to tell them everything you offer, you need to price yourself lower etc etc etc."

      So there were a lot of factors here that I think made this not work out, and I should have realized many of them from the start... but even a realist can be an optimist and I wanted to be wrong... whoops.

      It sucks though because I wanted him as an employee to begin with, but I would have trained him to duplicate my business, for himself you know?

      I don't know that I even want to save the friendship because while I can say to him... "if you get the job you were looking at... and working at the your job makes you happy, I'm happy for you" (And I did indeed say that or a variation of it several times over the last few weeks)

      He on the other hand has been incredibly insulting to the way that I am choosing to proceed with my financial situation/live my life in general over the last few days... and that kind of thing is not O.K... I don't want to surround myself with people who will be that way.
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      • Profile picture of the author PatrickIcasas
        Originally Posted by HAdrian1239 View Post

        I don't know that I even want to save the friendship because while I can say to him... "if you get the job you were looking at... and working at the your job makes you happy, I'm happy for you" (And I did indeed say that or a variation of it several times over the last few weeks)

        He on the other hand has been incredibly insulting to the way that I am choosing to proceed with my financial situation/live my life in general over the last few days... and that kind of thing is not O.K... I don't want to surround myself with people who will be that way.
        It sucks that someone you consider a friend can be so condescending, especially to a field where he has no prior experience. I'm not going to make any recommendations about whether or not you should keep him as a friend. Instead, I suggest you focus on growing your business, no distractions or bad vibes. Eventually, he may come to realize that your lifestyle is just as viable (or even more so) than his own. If not, no skin off your nose.
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  • Profile picture of the author PsycFa
    One thing you learn in business; never put someone in the driving seat if they do not have the skills or passion required; regardless of being a close friend, best friend or even family.

    I do not absolutely tolerate these stuffs as it is your business they are playing with. I guarantee you that he is just doing it for the sake of doing it and you do not need this type of people in a cold calling business.

    I recommend telling him its not working and get someone else who is not close to you; who will feel accountable towards you at the end of the day...
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    The aim of marketing is to make selling superfluous. The aim of marketing is to know and understand the customer so well that the product or service fits him and sells itself.....

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  • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
    One more thought about this young man.
    When we hire someone (especially a friend) we tend to think that, after some training, they will see the business as we do. That almost never happens.

    After years of trying to clone myself, I decided to just learn what good employees are capable of, and not expect more. And now, every once in a while, I get surprised.

    When I hired telemarketers, I told them the percentages of people that would hang up on them, and the number that would make appointments...if they were average. I set their expectations low. That way, they could feel pretty good with (expected) successes, and not get discouraged.

    And then the trick is to make the economics work with lowered performances.



    I recommend a book for you; Hot Prospects by Bill Good. He ran a successful phone room for years, and shows how to manage telemarketers, and get people motivated to cold call.

    Here are a few things I tell my cold callers;
    "There are diamonds out there. But we are going to dig through a lot of dirt to get to them"
    "Right now, in this town, there are 10 business owners who are looking to buy what we offer. Only ten. Our job is to find them".

    Good luck to you.
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    • Profile picture of the author Marvin Johnston
      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

      One more thought about this young man.
      When we hire someone (especially a friend) we tend to think that, after some training, they will see the business as we do. That almost never happens.
      And that can be a very good thing . One of the first things I was taught was hiring people who don't know as much as I do about whatever is a bad thing. Easier said than done sometimes, but the idea is sound.

      I think most of us have had some ideas that should have been shot and buried, and our friends said they thought it was a great idea.

      Or people whose resumes/CVs described someone other than who we hired.

      Marvin
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  • Profile picture of the author Marvin Johnston
    I've hired friends and relatives that worked out great (they had a good work ethic) and others that ... could have done better.

    iAmNameLess metioned being a go-getter, and that is SO important. One book I keep going back is the classic The Go-Getter by Peter B. Kyne. It is now public domain (at least in the US) and can be found at:

    The Go-Getter by Peter B. Kyne - Project Gutenberg

    I find the book to be motivating.

    An interesting test would be to give the book to potential people you want to hire and note their reaction. My guess is the people who don't want to really work would see it as just another book. And those that find it motivating might make a good hire.

    Marvin
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  • Profile picture of the author Sander Zaydman
    Hey, Here is the Cold Call my Appt Setter Made.
    This was with a very basic script and very little training...
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    Now sure how much to charge for your local marketing services?
    Add me on Facebook and I'll give you access to my Local Marketing Consultant Group....

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