How to deal with difficult client? please help.

Sometimes you have to fire unruly clients. Also, go ahead and work up a contract for them to sign saying they can only have X number of changes. I usually will allow 2 mockups. Then, 3 rounds of changes from there. I just had to fire a couple of clients for pulling stuff like that. Let them bug someone else. I can tell you now you are likely to never make her happy. Or you'll waste more time when you could be out getting other clients. I've been in situations like that before where I looked back and only made like $8 per hour on the project. It's a hard lesson to learn but the experience of this will help you to avoid people like that in the future.

It sounds like to me that someone wants you to design work for them, so that they can use it in the future, there is something very wrong here.
Did you have a contract? In future if someone wants a website get them to sign a contract and allow them say up to 3 changes a year within the contract, if they want any more then they pay extra.
Contracts don’t have to be complicated, there are loads of free one on the web, just download them and change them to suit your needs

This is why it is so important to qualify your prospect before you sell. Not just for the money. For personality.

For any creative/design work that I do, I tell my prospect up front that they get 3 revisions at this investment. Anything further and they'll have to pay for it. This means: here is my submission; you tell me about any changes you want; I make them.

If someone didn't like that, they'd be free to go be a problem client for someone else.

Ask her to be extremely clear about what she wants, if you think you can do it with a reasonable hourly rate, do it. If not, just go ahead and explain that she's going to have to find someone else and go out and get yourself a new client.

the prob is , she does not know what she wants, she says amuse me with a few colors so i can pick, it is driving me mad, also I'm thinking of firing her, but she give me deposit.

Fire Her

This is going no where but wasting your time.

Yea..... everyone else has it right.


You can..

1) Fire her


2) Explain to her that NOBODY CARES what her stupid website looks like if nobody sees it.

Give her the money back and move on.

Rule No 1. No artists

Rule No 2. No real estate agents



Your artist customer will never be happy with your design.

~ BDE4Live

In 0ne WORD...SACK her...end off.
Do NOT waste you're precious valuable TIME...on as****s
Sorry to be blunt - I put up with this when I started out.
However, I just wish 'I nipped this in the bud' on the first client that messed me around.
SO JUST SACK EM...!
There's plenty more fish out there...

I agree, however...if you have done work for her, then there is no need to give the deposit back.

It does depend on 1 thing. Did you sign any type of agreement?

If not, then let her keep all the information, pictures, ideas, any work you have submitted to her and nicely thank her but cut the relationship...and DO NOT reply to her any longer...it'll just drag on. Some people can't let go.

If you did have a contract, review it to make sure you held up your end (like you saying you would do mockups etc and submit them for her review), and if you did that, then you are free to move on also.

However, if you have a contract and you stated you will set up and complete the site/plug ins, and you have not, you need to give her a partial refund.

There are very difficult people, and even with screening you don't know who's going to go off the deep end. If you have done work, just because she doesn't like it or isn't completely happy, doesn't mean she gets a refund. She just needs to find someone else to bark orders at.

Thanks warriors for all this information, I was geting discourage and I really got great advice from all of you.

I would fire and move on.

First of all, you should include x number of reversions in your contract. Don't give unlimited revisions. Second, why would you work with an Artist with a good photoshop skills?

I wouldn't do that. But if you must, make sure the contract includes the right terms.

If you're just starting out and want to build your clients list, go to local non-profit organizations and offer your services for free.

Dump the client if he causes you headache. Find someone you respect, and you'll be more creative and both will be happy.

Good luck.

K.

LOL, I love how everyone is just saying FIRE HER!!!! Guess what, you are not "FIRING HER" you are QUITTING!!! Think outside the box on this one -

1 possible idea is....

Since this project seems to be taking a lot longer then planned tell her; to continue working with her you'd like to change this project to an "hourly rate project".
If she doesn't agree, than walk away. But if she does agree, come up with a hourly charge and then go to elance (or another site like elance) and outsource this project for a smaller fee. You will still have to be the "middle man" for this project, but you won't have to deal with the actual changes (saves you time)...and you will still be making some extra cash on the side. Plus, once you have a happy client...odds are they will come back and/or refer to you. Once you quit on them they will never refer.

I have done this with "clients" who are not worth my time and it works great.

Get her to work with her graphic designer to get the site layout as she wants it - get the psd chopped to wordpress - build her website.

Tony

imsolutionsgroup,

That is fine but according to him she has told him what she wants and that is someone to keep changing it till she is happy.

Yes an hourly rate solution may work. And depending on the contract they have it may have to continue.

But realistically the easiest solution is to refund her and cancel the project. She is not a good fit for him and vise versa. "Fire her" may seem extreme but the reality, based on what we know , that is the best solution.

"Ms. Cilent,

Based on our current interactions it is clear I will not be able to provide the service level you require. I do not figure in unlimited revisions when I bid out a project. I believe it is in the best interests of both parties that I refund your deposit and we go our seperate ways."

If the client really loves his work she will try to find a solution that works. If not this will free her as much as him. It's a win win either way.

OK. I'd like to chime in here but don't want to repeat too much of what's been said, so here's my take...

You bid for the job. You got it. Why lose it to someone else simply because you mismanaged it. A really good project manager will work around problems and fix them.

I said the latter because

A) I've made the mistake before of firing clients and realize now I should have just been more professional, persistent, thick-skinned, smarter in my agreements and better at crisis management.

B) When leads started to slow down coming in, I often wished I wasn't so fast to pull the "You're fired" trigger. I mean THINK ABOUT IT... you worked your butt or got lucky and landed this difficult client. Keywords being worked your butt off or got lucky. Why would you throw in the towel without at least trying to resolve the issue so that your initial hard work or pure luck won't just go down the drain?

Plus someone mentioned the fact that you will lose ANY and ALL chances of EVER getting referred by that particular client ever in the future. Even if they would NEVER have referred you no matter how great you were, you still want to keep the opportunity alive. Just in case hell freezes over and they get generous and send you that one lead that cold change your business forever... linkedin anyone?

Also, you'll get some name-stains off of ANY bad deal... sometimes you will NEVER hear a thing meanwhile folks ARE talking AND costing you business with those who would have done business with you had you only managed yourself, business and any crisis the best way possible, instead of as was said... QUITTING at what seems to be the first hurdle.

I hope you haven't pulled the trigger and fired her just yet. She sounds like some of my worst clients I had when I was starting out as well in offline web consulting. You'll get better at this and get better jobs. In the meantime, she will be a good source of recurring income if you can manage this situation well and she just might be a good source of further income with more work (as long as you have clear agreements that you both follow) or referrals either solicited or otherwise.

Anyway the ball is in your court to play as you see fit.

For me personally, I wish I hadn't fired the at least half a dozen difficult clients I've had to date. They would have likely continued adding to my bottom line year in year out had I been more experienced in "difficult client management".

As a footnote...

One such client I had and ALMOST fired ended up being a regular now, referred me a job just when it was badly needed and this was 100% UNsolicited. The latter refer only just referred me to another great deal and the guy that referred the difficult guy I started with didn't have work then but now came to me with a generous job this year and recurring income because I managed his friend well and made him happy in the end.

Bottom line...

You can

1) Fire her. Quit. Whatever you want to call it. or...

2) You can be tougher skinned and smarter in your management tasks and save the day.

PS: I bet you're having this issue mainly because you're largely inexperienced either in designing sites or managing your own business. I may be wrong but if I'm right, it's nothing to be ashamed off. We all started from some place. Just know that you're here now because you probably took some wrong turns from your inexperience. Learn from your mistakes and never make them again as much as humanly possible and your business will only grow from then on. I wish you the best of luck.

You have plenty of advice here. There are a few that disagree and think you should stick it out, I am not one of them. Here's why.

1) Most of us work for ourselves, yes, we do services for others, however I am never "employed" by anyone we do a service for. That mindset is rampant, and one of the reasons that I work for myself...so I don't have to put up with A-holes. So, the person that said you aren't firing her, you are quitting, is wrong. You aren't doing either, this should be a mutual relationship, and just like in friendships and love...it has to be beneficial to both parties. There is no reason to stress out yourself and work with someone that doesn't get it and won't. There's more money out there and my time and sanity is worth more than money.

2) There is a difference in tough skinned and being a pushover. My stance is that it goes both ways. Someone doesn't get to be tough at me without having to do a little give of their own. Otherwise, we won't work together.

3) You can still learn your lesson on how to better manage for the next client without continuing to put up with this. Don't stick it out for the sake of "learning." I think you already learned a lesson.

I would say something like..

" With all due respect ma'am, you hired me for my expertise... My job is to create you a website that will sell your product and represent you to the community...

Let me ask you this, who uses your website? Is it you, or your potential customers?"

Then I would explain a little bit to her about why you do things the way that you're doing them and why you're making the choices that you're making...

If that doesn't appease her, I would fire her, return her $...and tell her that perhaps her graphic designer can refer her to a website specialist...


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you must have clearly contract before you accept a project because if not, it will make a trouble for us

It's a tough less that all new designers will learn at some point. You can either:

1) Try your hardest to turn it into a positive customer service opportunity
2) Cut your losses and fire her

If she has photoshop skills and an eye for design why isnt' she doing it herself?

In future you need to have a contract that they sign which specified how much time, how many changes etc so there is no room for anything else.

When customers hire me, I give I only submit to them 1 draft, if they don't like it (which has only happened once) then I'll re-do it, end of story.
The client has to understand that YOU are the design expert. They are hiring you to solve their design problem, so it is definitely OK for you to give strong recommendations if they are making stupid suggestions.

At the end of the day it's their project and they should get what they want, but at the same time, in the past I have told clients that I wouldn't work with them anymore because I didn't want to have my name associated with the work they were creating.

It's all about setting clear guidelines, and knowing you're justified in sticking to them.

Now that you know you two are incompatible
do you still want to get married?

Happy New Year!!!

Hugh

I agree... life is too short for difficult clients. It's hard when you are just starting out because any money looks like good money. But the time you spend trying to please "those type" of clients could be spent getting better clients.

If I was in this position I would set clear rules. If the client did not want to follow those rules I would fire the client and give their money back. But setting clear conditions and rules is something that should be done before closing the client.

I suggest going to legalzoom dot come and getting some contracts made up... I use them all the time.

The more you include in the contracts the less you have to fight about with the clients later on.

Well...here is a crazy option. Tell her SHE is the artist here....."DRAW ME A PICTURE USING THE EXACT COLORS YOU WANT AND I'LL CODE IT"! Now she has no one to pester but herself!

Your lesson?
Make sure your next project has a well-defined scope of work, and include revisions limit. It doesn't matter you continue with this client or not. Next time do it right :-)

Good luck.

And one more thing,

even with a good contract and a signed scope of work, you still gonna deal with stupid clients -- they won't respect the signed documents, and will let you chase them, their accountants and lawers for months. Headache again?

Choose your clients. Make all expectations clear from the start. Eventually you will learn how to choose and handle them. Have confidence in yourself and the value you provide. People will respect that more than documents.

You're dealing with an artist and they tend to be picky about design because they have strong feelings about visual aesthetics. To artists, "pretty" trumps "practical."

Ah, finally done with this client, it took allot out me .
Thanks for all the answers, it did help me allot and I learned a very important lesson.
We need to be extremely detailed in contracts. Also like someone mention before chose your clients, I add a feeling with this one but I refuse to listen to my self.
Just saw the pot of gold.

Ex: we meet at a cofe shop and she return her ice cofe 3 times and one of them it was bc she want it more sugar when she could of done it her self. Their was sugar on the table.

So I did not lose money, but lost time and chance to take another contract bc I was paralyzed with this one, the deal is just to send her all the work I did and. We move on.
So I get to keep deposit.
Thanks again warriors, very kind of all of you to take the time to help me out.
Now I'm back on the phone full force .

Working with the creatives. Classic mistake

There's not much you can do now if you didn't set her expectations from the beginning.

You'll just have to make her happy this time and do it right the next time.

Great thread! I've been freelancing for a few years but I still learnt a lot from reading up on this. Many different views presented here and they actually all make sense.

Personally I wouldn't put too much trust in the "perfect contract" solution. Although it's absolutely essential to put everything on paper and fork out all details in advance, it still will never protect you from annoying or even dangerous (by which I mean clients that can damage your business) clients. In situations like that you simply have to be professional and communicate your points very clearly, if the other side won't play ball then you have to come up with an exit strategy.

I'm glad you managed to sort it out in the end BDE4Live, the story with the ice coffee pretty much sums up everything on that person, doesn't it? Some people are just too weird! LOL!

The key word here is that your client assumed something. The reality is that her graphic designer is providing her services in such a way that is outside the normally accepted business practices of her industry.

Just be firm and communicate that what her graphic designer is doing isn't normal and that in most cases clients get mock ups and when a mock up is chosen they get up to three revisions. After three revisions there is an hourly rate of X.

If the client can't understand this, then get rid of her and return her money.