So What Do Those With Balls Charge For What We Do?

I get 8k a month from a certain industry for SEO on 5 local keywords with 0 competition, basically did some onpage optimisation and maintain a fairly straight forward campaign monthly.

These guys make 50k minimum from each client and that's just up front, life time value is something around a mil.

I get them between 1-3 clients a month so works out well for them, if I was renegotiating this now I'd ask for a hell of a lot more.

Some of the easiest money I ever made.

I'm also in negotiations for a deal valued at £1,000,000 with a company in Texas, some very in depth online marketing stuff with web design and multilingual SEO (which is a gold mine product at the moment).

This happened through linked in because I had the bollocks to ask for it.

Very nice. $8k a month for SEO is fantastic.

You're seeing this in one light... instead of seeing it in a full spectrum. There are ways of doing business looking for the high paying stuff, and the low paying, and the fine line in between.

It isn't always about finding the most lucrative deals when you can make more doing high volume but still with high margins. If I can get 1000% more sales with 500% margins than you can at the same margin, I do a lot better.

It depends on how you look at things. The more work you get, the more referrals you get, the more recurring income you can get. The lower volume but higher cost, the less you have to work, but the lower amount of branding you receive.

The beauty of this business, is that you can do things in many different ways and still succeed!

What's a "wire frame mock-up"?

I had a client pay my company $120k/mo. for SEO services. He wanted to rank in the diet space for lots of keyword like Weight Watchers, Jenny Craig, etc...

We worked on his campaign for about 9 months until we started working on another one of his domain assets. He's still running strong today with his brand.

Here is an imaginary conversation, the kind I can't help going through when thinking what it would be like to charge such high fees:

Client:

"Hey Greg, as you know, we've been pleased with your work over the past year, but I'm a little upset now because, at a business conference last week, I heard a presentation by a gal who does what you do, except she only charges $500 per month, and it includes everything I get from you, plus a whole bunch more; she will promote me on Facebook and some other sites like it, and throw in some other extras, like more keywords that will bring more people to us.

Now I'm kind of wondering why we pay you more than 10 times that, for less. Is there something I'm missing, or did you just take advantage of our ignorance of your competition, to charge outlandish rates?"

Me:

"Umm.....well, I did need a new house, so thanks for that."

Client:

"Don't let the door hit you in the...."

Sorry if I'm raining on the parade, but that honestly is what goes through my mind, and the reason I will never make the kinds of fees quoted.

In my time doing commercial photography - the ad budgets were not all available to me - but when I told them back in 1998 that my rate was 99 an hour, they did not even blush. That was a huge step for me. I knew it was a fair deal, and keep in mind this is in the midwest with lower cost of living; but HUGE companies. These people would have me for a full day three days a week at about $2500 to click the button on a camera. That was WAY underpriced.

Advertising especially, has several rationals to it, variables etc. The cost is very low compared to the ROI. So, when you know for a fact what you are worth - it's not even a thing bringing it up. The only stressor is if the client actually knows what you are worth.

Barbers, handymen, work at home cowboys - these people have no clue what advertising is worth, and they always nickel and dime it to death which consistently creates failure. They are convinced, that it either never works or (maybe just paying $350 will work this time and not fail like the last five times). Forgot what movie it was that had the quote "All business fails, some just sooner than others". Don't fall into their trapped world of being anti-spend. If they don't know how to buy they don't know how to sell.

Good business owners know when to take a risk and evaluate it and 10,000 or 100,000 a month is nothing if it gets results. I only wish I had some of the figures that some of my old college mates have on ad budgets - in the range of 6 million. So I am in the same boat; working my reputation up in this area so that I can increase my budgets. However, I do know this to be true, and I can sympathize what it is like when you don't know or have never been part of a conversation like that. The only way to do that is to stick your neck out all the way, or even just a little here and there. Relatively easy, if you are talking to a landscaper who primarily mows lawns - then hell no. However, there are landscapers who get a client that is worth $150,000 or more. In marketing you really do need to know what the base numbers are.

I am not scared of charging too much, I am actually scared to charge too little. If someone wants a ton of attention, a paltry ad budget is not going to make it happen. "Cheap, Fast, Smart - pick two" If you charge too little and then can't meet expectations, this will screw you up more than if you had overshot their idea and lost the sale in the first meeting. I would much rather scare the crap out of them and see them swim away after I give them a high number then later on realize I am up the creek on what we discussed about and the client is confused - no big deal but it wastes so much damn time.

My first go into web design was odd, it was back in 1999. I had done a few sites with Adobe golive, and some other solutions. While I was playing around with the new release of cold fusion a client came in and asked if I knew anything about web design. Now, I was pricing this thing almost the same as if he had asked me to do a catalogue photo shoot. So when this all came up to be 28,000 I was still green behind the gills and did not actually feel like dropping that on him - but I did it anyway. That was WAY underpriced, and I worked my ass off.

So now, when I am talking to a travel agent, I price accordingly - but I just talked to someone who manufactures spas. I was thinking about everything else and just going along with my daily routine, in the meeting I had with these guys it dawns on me this guy is going to need models, photo-shoots, set designers, stylists etc. They need a very visual sale, because otherwise a spa is a big plastic bucket. $85,000 would be the bare bones minimum for something like that, and that is because I have years of experience pulling people together on a project like that. If you just project managed this same kind of deal; that is hired out to everything needed while you middle manned it - $150,000 and this would be for a six month campaign to start. Again, this is CHEAPO level. Of course this also does not drop down on the table in one piece of paper. These kinds of deals are split up into timelines, various stages, and sub-projects. So it might go down in one meeting, but lots of communication is done as to precisely why and what is going to occur.

right....but the trouble there is you are basically short changing him....When he does relaize what he's apying you for the work etc..he will dump you. Is it good or bad you make so much money form this? Depends on your perception of it i guess.

Nope I do not agree. Even big companies and the wealthy do not to be taken for a fool. Let's say yes you are generating them $100k month bizz. but then they are told by another expert....

"hey you are being ripped off there. He's charging you $10k to do about 1 hour "work" is that right? I can do it for $1k."

How will they feel?

It seem a common thread you take your clients for as much as they can "bleed" but is that really win/win? I do not think so. Ther's a "sweet spot " of making good profits and not taking them for a ride. Or am i old fashioned?

For you guys that charge "high" prices...

I'm assuming (a) they conceptually bought the idea of marketing/advertising/promotion/spending money to make money concept...

but (b) have you found that they were "burned" before by the "lure" of a cheap service that could produce the same or equivalent return as a higher priced service?

I can also tell you that smart businessmen will weigh potential ROI over cost when presented a promotional opportunity; when it was the right time of year to advertise for my personal training business (January), I would ramp up the size of my existing advertising and test out new venues, too.

There are guys like that who will spend the big bucks; you just got to find them.

I would love to have the nuggets to charge like that, but those charges are why I am in business. I have built my business around residual commissions on services that seemlessly connect with other. I work hard for my clients and deliver results all while relying solely on the residuals. I am looking to build a solid relationship with fewer clients because those residuals will then continue through the life of the friendship (relationship).

I've structured deals every which-way. Once I learned my real value, I started charging $10,000+++, half up front with the other half due upon completion of the first stage of the marketing plan, which is laying the foundation and takes a month or two depending on my workload. And then, usually thousands per month to continue building on the foundation and preforming as their marketing arm.

HOWEVER, the deals I like the best are the ones where you charge a nice upfront fee and then get a percentage of profits. I usually shoot for 30% of profits and usually get it. However, you have to be flexible on that. If my client does webinars/seminars, I reduce my cut down to 20 - 25% because I'm not flying allover and incurring those major expenses like he/she is. I may be wrong cutting my percentage like that but that's what I do. When we involve affiliates, I also cut my percentage down to about 20%.

I've seen a couple of you around this forum for a long time... [GUITAR GREG!] If you've been actually LEARNING from this forum for as long as you've been around, I GUARANTEE you that you have the skills to help a lot of businesses in a big way and profit handsomely. You just don't realize it. Like they always say, "mindset". I talk to a lot of prospects/clients who are much more articulate and smarter in many ways than I am, but they think I'm a genius.

If you've got the skills or outsource, you need to put a marketing blueprint together to show them what you're proposing to do, like a PowerPoint or a mindmap and go through it with your prospect. At the end of the presentation, I let them know that I can get them on board when they're ready IF I still have the slot available. To get started I'll need a check for $XX,XXX and the balance of $XX,XXX due upon completion of the foundation. And then whatever I've determined I want to get monthly.

I NEVER even come close to trying to "sell" them. I tell them that if they're "comfortable" with me and my proposal, to get me a check when they're ready. Meanwhile, I'm packing up my stuff and getting ready to leave. I get some checks right then and there. Sometimes I get a call the next day to pick up the check. Sometimes I don't hear anything back, and everything in between. It's all good in any case. I never push.

As far as a client who may someday ask why you're charging so much more than so-and-so, fogetaboutit. My clients know that they can move on at anytime through a clause in the contract. And they know I can do the same and will if they are a pain in the ass. I tell them right up front that if they start causing me headaches, they'll be fired. And I have fired clients. I couldn't care less if they go to someone else. I hope they find someone that's better than me because there are those who are better than me. But good luck finding them. The field is infested with posers, liars and cheats.

Don't worry about things that MIGHT happen. Take great care of your clients, over deliver and see what happens.

OK, back to taking care of my clients...

I don't care if i made $1m off your $8k work if i found out the true value was $500 I'd be p**** off at you.

It's a bit like creaming a few $K off a billionaires account and saying "so what they won't miss it."

Maube they should pay 10X more for petrol as obviously that meeting they are attending might net them $1m+? Where does it end?

I think the problem in here is people are mixing up price and value.

Think about it this way. Do I get mad that I pay $7 bucks at Five Guys for a burger when I can get one at McD's for $2 or less? of course not. In fact the McD's burger IMO is the over priced one.

I can charge a guy $500 a month and be over priced. Someone else can charge him $8k/mo and be a great value.

I think a lot of it comes down to what your service is worth. If you are bringing them business and have a great relationship they will see value in it.

Of course that isn't to say I agree with the threads that say charge a percentage of what they will make because it's clear a lot of times people here don't really know how much a guy is really making. You might bring him $100k of business but you can't charge $10k is he only makes 6% (aka $6k).

A lot of people here have the mentality of outsourcing all the SEO work for pennies and feel bad charging thousands. Of course you do. But have you ever thought that maybe the guys charging thousands are not doing that? Their employees and outsourcers are likely doing more and that costs more. They also are giving more facetime to the client which is worth money as well.

As I have said multiple times business owners expect to pay $100/hr plus for web services. They also pay those rates for other professional services. If your company provides great results why not charge $500/hr? Other professionals do.

How is that theft? (i do not think so at all look up the definition of "theft" and you'll see you are way off the mark)

The product may just cost £10 to make but I'll bet branding adds at least that on again if not more and at least you know what you are getting. If they coated it on gold paint and tried to charge £500+ as it is real gold...i'd be p*** off though. ....... Bit lame of a comparison I.M.H.O. But thx for your wondeful insights.

Hey i am not saying this guy does not perform what he charges....I am saying you shoul;dn't charge high simply because they'll pay it..or am I to ohonest for biz? Thx

This is the ONLY point I am making here: Nothing to do with any services anyone is performing:

And if you are comparing apples to apples, I see your point. If one guys sells 1,000 comment links for $50, and another guy sells 1,000 comment links (from the same websites) for $3,000...then I would have a problem with the guy that charged more. (Assuming I was the client)

I was a pretty good baseball player, I can throw a football and shoot hoops. I also acted in high school plays. Apparently, I wasn't good enough to pursue any of these as a career where I'd make millions of dollars per year. Should I now think that sports players and actors are overpaid or ripping people off?

When you get heartfelt letters from clients and clients wives giving you thanks for changing their business and their lives so much for the better, you'd better believe you're worth every penny you charge. When you prevent a business from going under and take them well into the black on their balance sheets, you're ripping no one off.

I don't know about anyone else, but the fees I charge are cheap compared to the results my clients usually get. In fact, like Dan Kennedy says, you could argue that my services are free.

There is so much riding on us as marketers for businesses. When you sell more of a product or service, more money is made, more jobs are created, those jobs have benefits and infuse cash into other businesses and the economy. There is a direct chain reaction that goes much - MUCH further than you can imagine when you can help a business thrive.

If you have some good marketing skills, you're probably worth a lot more than you think you are. It's the butterfly effect that little old you can produce that can make massive positive impacts, in so many ways that you'll never even know about.

When you have a service that's in demand and you're good at it, you shouldn't be ashamed to be well compensated for it. Just ask a prostitute, Ha!

I don't sell offline services but I just sold a dog for $45,000. Does that count?

I have two clients in a certain difficult niche to operate in. I was smart enough to take a percent of sales since I know the market. Raking in six figures between each of them.

How do you define "true value" or "for the same service.?" A businessman will begin by defining it as ROI.

An expert will always charge more because he knows he can deliver a reliably high quality service and corresponding real ROI compared to less expert service providers. If you can make someone 1 mil with an $8,000 investment on his part, you are an expert indeed. That is a hell of an ROI, and if--hypothetically--you could actually do that for $500 you'd be a fool for charging that--in fact, if you were charging that you wouldn't in the same class as the $8K expert, and you'd know it; and of course, you would know that you'd come across as a fool and a scamster if you offered to do that for such a fee. However, if I told you I could do it for $50K would that make it a tad more plausible? Of course it would. And if you had 50K and you were pretty sure I could make you a mil for that, wouldn't you be happy to do so? Obviously, such an expert could and would back up his fees with referrals and other proofs of expertise, and he would in various ways make it pretty clear that he knew what he is talking about. Why do you think first-class copywriters not only charge very high fees but in addition ask for a percentage of sales? They know what they are worth. They get serious results and ask for correspondingly high fees.

We have all heard the story of the chief maintenance man in a factory who quit to consult on his own. One day, the main machine in the plant breaks down and no one knows what to do, so they call up the old chief to come in and do his thing. He takes a few moments and taps a certain place with a wrench and, presto, the machine works. His bill is for $1,000. A few bucks for the time spent, and most of it for the expertise--gained over years of work--to identify what had to be fixed. Moral: it's about quality not quantity.

It goes without saying that abuses exist--that's the world for you. But the existence of abuses doesn't mean that the genuine article doesn't exist. On the contrary, thanks to the existence of real value, crooks can sometimes get away with abuses. The bad is always an abuse of the good and depends on its existence.

Two on topic articles (from different angles) by Perry Marshall:


The man who loved to help too much

Surviving and thriving “Off The Grid”

I have a team working on a $300,000 user interface design project right now for a public company. Multiple internal portal implementations and translations for their global users.

Well I can relate this to one of our top competitors in the home remodeling niche.

This guy ALWAYS charges double what everyone else is charging. You'll have 3 contractors selling a bathroom remodeling job for $12,000 and he'll come in and do it for $24,000. And people BUY from him a lot.

I have had the luxury of seeing him close jobs along with many other contractors, and the one thing he knows how to do best, is BUILD VALUE. But he is able to do this because he's been in the remodeling industry for about 40 years.

He has far more experience than most contractors I know. When he is inside homes he's a great salesman, and knows what he's doing. But there is a negative side to this as well.

That negative side being buyers remorse. And the fact that he pisses a lot of people off by having "balls" like this. This is his google listing:

https://plus.google.com/100140597356...47/about?hl=en

Somehow, the guy still makes a fortune for himself. Well I know how. Once that page got shittied up with bad feedback, he bought out another company called "Innovative Remodeling". Their google listing was on page 1. Now he's got 2 good reviews on that page, but in another 6-12 months it'll look like his other one.

Heres the video Iwas referring too

Alan Weiss Delivers a Keynote Speech - YouTube

Going back to the topic its all about the value you add

Lets use this simple analogy

Ford Focus 2012
Ferrari California 2012

or in fact lets reverse it still
Ferrari F355 1994
Ford Focus 2015 (not even out yet)

Are they not both cars.
Do they not do the same job of getting you from A to B exactly.

So why do you buy one at a higher price and another at a lower price when they are both doing exactly the same thing and even if you take into account the Ferrari has heated seats or dvd in the headrest I deliberately put the Ford Focus that's not even out yet and the Ferrari F 355 from 1994 and you will still expect the Ferrari to be expensive no?

Its all about the perception and what it offers
Ferrari -rich- wealth- status- premium- luxury-high class-head turner - get you in the club if you're not on the Glist- it may give you a better shot at the hot model girl - your clients would have a higher perception of you if you rock up to their offices like this- at networking events more people would be intrigued to know about you and possibly feel well if he drives a ferrair he must be good at what he does.

These are just a number of things from a car but we don't even think about these things when Ferrari tells us the price neither do they say well heres a list of other benefits you should consider.

Its all about the value and perception it really really is and most importantly knowing your stuff and delivering.

Eg Seo improves brand visibility and awareness locally nationally and internationally if there are 6billion people in the world and your seo efforts get only 15% then lets think again and ask ourselves are we charging for that in fact can we quantify it to charge for it ?