I'm a SEO expert and you should listen to me

34 replies
I had this funny conversation with a fellow warrior today who acted like he's the only person who knows SEO in the entire universe. I've been seeing a lot of people doing the same thing. Bashing other poor members and contradicting with what they are saying. I mean there's nothing wrong about acting like an expert and you should act one especially if you really know what you're saying. But seriously, we all started as students and we should not forget that. We are nothing without the help of other people so please stop calling other starters as "junk" "trash" "crap" etc. Stay humble even if you are the richest man in the entire universe.
#linkbuilding #local #seo
  • Profile picture of the author deskstuffed
    If what you are doing is working, making you money and makes you happy without taking advantage of other people then you should continue doing no matter what others are saying.

    When it comes to SEO, we do not know if a system will definitely work for years as we have been seeing changes here and there.

    My point is, we are all students and we all have teachers.
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  • Profile picture of the author kylemarvin
    Originally Posted by deskstuffed View Post

    I had this funny conversation with a fellow warrior today who acted like he's the only person who knows SEO in the entire universe. I've been seeing a lot of people doing the same thing. Bashing other poor members and contradicting with what they are saying. I mean there's nothing wrong about acting like an expert and you should act one especially if you really know what you're saying. But seriously, we all started as students and we should not forget that. We are nothing without the help of other people so please stop calling other starters as "junk" "trash" "crap" etc. Stay humble even if you are the richest man in the entire universe.
    Thank You! I'm tired of the trash talking that happens here too. I like to talk here as I would if we were face to face at a marketing convention. Even IF you're smarter than someone, don't talk down to them. I'm surprised people with that personality can make it in business to be honest.
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    • Profile picture of the author deskstuffed
      This forum is filled with self proclaimed experts. If they only know how to value the things they have learned and where they learned them they will not act like they own the world.

      Originally Posted by kylemarvin View Post

      Thank You! I'm tired of the trash talking that happens here too. I like to talk here as I would if we were face to face at a marketing convention. Even IF you're smarter than someone, don't talk down to them. I'm surprised people with that personality can make it in business to be honest.
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      • Profile picture of the author kylemarvin
        Originally Posted by deskstuffed View Post

        This forum is filled with self proclaimed experts. If they only know how to value the things they have learned and where they learned them they will not act like they own the world.
        Totally. I've been doing web marketing since 2003 and I still don't know everything. I still learn all the time. Anyone who's good in this industry won't be good for long as soon as they stop becoming a student and start becoming a know-it-all. I spend at least 15-20 hours a week just building my knowledge. Things change all the time. Imagine if people who were ranking #1 back in 2008 using pre-panda methods got set in their ways.. They'd be out of business now.

        I don't have a problem calling out something completely bull but it's the way people talk to each other that frustrates the hell out of me sometimes.
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        • Profile picture of the author deskstuffed
          I am spending more than 13 hours daily working on clients' campaigns, managing staffs and learning. There are so many web information out there that are contradicting with each other. What's funny about these self proclaimed experts is they are also waiting for other people's tips and advice. They often sneak into other self proclaimed experts' websites and blogs. LOL

          Originally Posted by kylemarvin View Post

          Totally. I've been doing web marketing since 2003 and I still don't know everything. I still learn all the time. Anyone who's good in this industry won't be good for long as soon as they stop becoming a student and start becoming a know-it-all. I spend at least 15-20 hours a week just building my knowledge. Things change all the time. Imagine if people who were ranking #1 back in 2008 using pre-panda methods got set in their ways.. They'd be out of business now.

          I don't have a problem calling out something completely bull but it's the way people talk to each other that frustrates the hell out of me sometimes.
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  • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
    The fact is, most of the people that offer SEO and claim they are experts really have no idea about how it REALLY works. SEO experts follow other self proclaimed experts and it starts a web of misinformation.

    Take a look at the Local SEO vs SEO and you'll see a bunch of people that know nothing but they sell the services lol.

    I don't think anyone is telling a beginner they're crap, garbage or junk. However, if someone is spreading misinformation I think it is your responsibility to call them out.
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    • Profile picture of the author deskstuffed
      You're right! And that's what is happening right now on this forum

      Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

      The fact is, most of the people that offer SEO and claim they are experts really have no idea about how it REALLY works. SEO experts follow other self proclaimed experts and it starts a web of misinformation.
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  • Profile picture of the author wally247
    The REAL fact is that if you don't work for Google, you stand the same chance of having your site slapped to oblivion one day just like anyone else does....end of story.


    Like the so-called "experts" around here just go through update after update and their sites rank higher and higher......please.


    All of these SEO guys just go around saying the same thing anyway...like the vomitorious "high quality content is kind" like it's the gospel.


    You know what's king? Money! Pay Google to put your website at the top, or you WILL have a lot of terrible days as a SEO.


    "Google loves these links" & "Google loves fresh content"... HOOEY!





    Google loves making billions off ads. I don't know why SEO's don't get that.
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    • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
      Originally Posted by wally247 View Post

      The REAL fact is that if you don't work for Google, you stand the same chance of having your site slapped to oblivion one day just like anyone else does....end of story.


      Like the so-called "experts" around here just go through update after update and their sites rank higher and higher......please.


      All of these SEO guys just go around saying the same thing anyway...like the vomitorious "high quality content is kind" like it's the gospel.


      You know what's king? Money! Pay Google to put your website at the top, or you WILL have a lot of terrible days as a SEO.


      "Google loves these links" & "Google loves fresh content"... HOOEY!





      Google loves making billions off ads. I don't know why SEO's don't get that.
      Google makes money off ads because it is considered the most reliable search engine. Google doesn't slap sites because they're ranking, they slap them because it no longer fits their algorithm.

      Google doesn't love links... backlinking is one of the biggest myths surround SEO. Google wants a good user experience for people that go to a website, they don't want them spending forever loading the pages, they don't want people clicking the back button. They want to deliver so well on the search results that the customers query was solved.

      SEO will always be around. I successfully get by every update, know why? Because I have tested everything thoroughly, and I know what works. Algorithm changes are made to hurt those that game the search engine.

      If you MARKET your website, you won't be hurt. Google likes to see a site that is being marketed.

      On page factors are becoming more important than backlinking.

      People say content is king, and they believe it, but they don't know what it really means. REAL content, that is valuable to the reader, and asserts their position as an authority is how content benefits a site in the ranking algorithm. Why is it important? Because it picks up social signals, it keeps people coming back, it increases their time on the website, their pages per visit, etc.

      When you REALLY begin to do SEO and you stop trying to learn from other people, just relying on your own results and testing, you will then understand.

      Did you know for some keywords, it isn't the keyword itself that is important, but other words used with those keywords that google favors?

      Search keywords... analyze the 1st page, 2nd page, 3rd page... figure out WHY they are ranking. Don't even look at backlinks.

      PPC and SEO work together. Usually SEO is performed to pick up on extra traffic and to decrease PPC costs. Why do you do PPC for a keyword? Aside from obvious reasons, you also use PPC in order to test out keywords for SEO. Why spend months on SEO for a keyword that ends up not converting?
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      • Profile picture of the author wally247
        Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

        Google makes money off ads because it is considered the most reliable search engine. Google doesn't slap sites because they're ranking, they slap them because it no longer fits their algorithm.

        Google doesn't love links... backlinking is one of the biggest myths surround SEO. Google wants a good user experience for people that go to a website, they don't want them spending forever loading the pages, they don't want people clicking the back button. They want to deliver so well on the search results that the customers query was solved.

        SEO will always be around. I successfully get by every update, know why? Because I have tested everything thoroughly, and I know what works. Algorithm changes are made to hurt those that game the search engine.

        If you MARKET your website, you won't be hurt. Google likes to see a site that is being marketed.

        On page factors are becoming more important than backlinking.

        People say content is king, and they believe it, but they don't know what it really means. REAL content, that is valuable to the reader, and asserts their position as an authority is how content benefits a site in the ranking algorithm. Why is it important? Because it picks up social signals, it keeps people coming back, it increases their time on the website, their pages per visit, etc.

        When you REALLY begin to do SEO and you stop trying to learn from other people, just relying on your own results and testing, you will then understand.

        Did you know for some keywords, it isn't the keyword itself that is important, but other words used with those keywords that google favors?

        Search keywords... analyze the 1st page, 2nd page, 3rd page... figure out WHY they are ranking. Don't even look at backlinks.

        PPC and SEO work together. Usually SEO is performed to pick up on extra traffic and to decrease PPC costs. Why do you do PPC for a keyword? Aside from obvious reasons, you also use PPC in order to test out keywords for SEO. Why spend months on SEO for a keyword that ends up not converting?



        I've learned to find keywords that most other people ignore, which means I rank very easily without having to have tons of links and link wheels and whatever the thing of the day is.


        The internet runs on links, everyone knows that. And legitimate sites are always going to be on top, because if they aren't then Google is no longer relevant.


        If someone searches for a real site, like the onion or Cnet or something and it's not there because Google has a penalty on it for "suspicious links" or whatever, then Google is not relevant and people won't be using it.


        I don't mean some guru's fitness blog either, I mean real sites with millions of views per month, and HUGE social following. Basically, the kinds of sites that get their SEO done FOR them in the most natural way possible.


        Not that some of those guys don't do SEO, but do they really need to? I don't know/care really.



        And you're right. If you listen to guys who talk about how "google loves" Wiki links or .edu links or whatever the fad of the week is, you'll always be chasing an algorithm hoping it doesn't fu*k you over.


        Still though, Google sells ad space. I used to believe that they really wanted good content and good interaction but I no longer believe it. They want billions of dollars.


        If you are doing SEO that looks like you are doing SEO, they do NOT want you to participate in their searches! If you are a site that has a billion links because people love it and share it and it is a brand, well then they obviously can't just send you to the bottom of the pile.


        Then again, if you fu*k up like JC Penney did, then they will punish you...but I digress.


        They have the smartest people around working on that algorithm. I think they know the difference between some SEO who is creating something to look like it has a huge worldly following, and a site like theoatmeal.com which has 5 million uniques a month because it is insanely entertaining.



        Google is an evil corporation, and they want more ads sold. That is my opinion, and I strongly believe that greed will make it so they won't be around forever....nobody ever is.
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  • Profile picture of the author luke1213
    I had a person bash me and a couple of my test sites after a comment I made about seo a couple weeks ago. Then when I asked him to please share his seo genius and contribute to the thread, he vanished.
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    • Profile picture of the author gcastagno
      You will know a true specialist in this field as they would not bash anyone.

      Aaron Wall, Matt Cutts, Randfish etc. These people don't go round bashing anyone.

      Learn from the best guys
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      • Profile picture of the author wally247
        Originally Posted by gcastagno View Post

        You will know a true specialist in this field as they would not bash anyone.

        Aaron Wall, Matt Cutts, Randfish etc. These people don't go round bashing anyone.

        Learn from the best guys

        Matt Cutts LOVES ruining SEO's lives. Follow that guy on Twitter for a while. In between his insanely boring tweets about dorky stuff, he announces Penguin refreshes with glee.


        I am by NO MEANS the biggest expert anywhere (except maybe in my own house) but Matt Cutts has zero interest in "white hat" SEO.


        Try building a site with zero links, but a lot of white hat practices like he says to do. Let me know when it ranks anywhere in the top 1,000...because it likely won't.


        I've been through the phase where I thought Google truly wanted "good quality content" and it's just not the case.



        Look at the latest updates and Penguins. TONS AND TONS of shitty SEO'd sites rose to the top, and TONS of good sites are gone. That has nothing to do with quality. They are trying to get people to stop doing SEO and START PAYING for ad space....that's how they make their money.


        Google is not here for the greater good...they are insane people looking to flood their bank account, and Matt Cutts is the guy killing all of the SEO'd sites out there.


        If he doesn't get you with Penguin or Panda, he may get you with Ostrich...and if not then, he'll get you with Gypsy-Dildo or whatever they call it next.


        But he WILL get you.


        Off of soapbox:


        And for the original thought, SEO's shouldn't bash anyone doing something different than what they believe. I'm sure there are guys out there right now killing it with so-called "spammy links" that most people would say "don't work" anymore.


        So there's that.
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        • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
          Originally Posted by wally247 View Post



          Try building a site with zero links, but a lot of white hat practices like he says to do. Let me know when it ranks anywhere in the top 1,000...because it likely won't.
          What? I have 1,000+ sites that say otherwise and a major client ranking for over 50,000 keywords in the past 2.5 years that says otherwise.

          You just don't understand SEO bro. No offense intended but you just don't "get it" like most people on here. SEO isn't about building links, or changing meta descriptions. Learn how beneficial user experience optimization can be and then you will see how ultimately is the best SEO strategy around.

          MARKET your website and you will rank well. Backlink the hell out of your website and you won't. Over optimize, and you won't. Build a natural website for your visitors and work on marketing it and you will never be at risk.

          Forget everything you have ever learned about SEO, and focus on creating the best possible user experience.
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          • Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

            What? I have 1,000+ sites that say otherwise and a major client ranking for over 50,000 keywords in the past 2.5 years that says otherwise.

            You just don't understand SEO bro. No offense intended but you just don't "get it" like most people on here. SEO isn't about building links, or changing meta descriptions. Learn how beneficial user experience optimization can be and then you will see how ultimately is the best SEO strategy around.

            MARKET your website and you will rank well. Backlink the hell out of your website and you won't. Over optimize, and you won't. Build a natural website for your visitors and work on marketing it and you will never be at risk.
            Makes sense..... and I think the search engines will only continue to improve on the results that have the highest quality user/viewer experiences.


            Why continue to improve on your Black Hat techniques, if the search engines are continuing to optimize their results in the other direction?
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          • Profile picture of the author wally247
            Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

            What? I have 1,000+ sites that say otherwise and a major client ranking for over 50,000 keywords in the past 2.5 years that says otherwise.

            You just don't understand SEO bro. No offense intended but you just don't "get it" like most people on here. SEO isn't about building links, or changing meta descriptions. Learn how beneficial user experience optimization can be and then you will see how ultimately is the best SEO strategy around.

            MARKET your website and you will rank well. Backlink the hell out of your website and you won't. Over optimize, and you won't. Build a natural website for your visitors and work on marketing it and you will never be at risk.

            Are you saying your clients have zero links pointing toward their site and they are ranking?


            If you are saying that, I very simply do not believe you. At least I don't believe you are ranking very highly.


            If you are saying you are getting lots of natural links by marketing, and not by using spammy SEO from India or wherever, then that is absolutely 10000% not what I was talking about.


            Links make the internet work. Everyone and their brother knows that if you have a popular site (due to marketing and that sort of thing) then people will link to you, tweet about you, Facebook link to you, link from forums, Wiki's and any other place where people link on the internet that you will rise up in rankings.


            I never mentioned anything to the contrary.


            But if you go out and build a site with ZERO LINKS and it rises to the top of the searches, then I'm not buying it...sorry. And when I say "zero links" I mean what a lot of SEO's in the other parts of this site would be talking about...like services, and blog networks, and the traditional "SEO Services" thing that people sell.


            If you are ranking highly without ANY LINKS AT ALL (not paid for, I mean non-existent) then you are right...I clearly don't "get it".
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            • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
              Originally Posted by wally247 View Post

              Are you saying your clients have zero links pointing toward their site and they are ranking?


              If you are saying that, I very simply do not believe you. At least I don't believe you are ranking very highly.


              If you are saying you are getting lots of natural links by marketing, and not by using spammy SEO from India or wherever, then that is absolutely 10000% not what I was talking about.


              Links make the internet work. Everyone and their brother knows that if you have a popular site (due to marketing and that sort of thing) then people will link to you, tweet about you, Facebook link to you, link from forums, Wiki's and any other place where people link on the internet that you will rise up in rankings.


              I never mentioned anything to the contrary.


              But if you go out and build a site with ZERO LINKS and it rises to the top of the searches, then I'm not buying it...sorry. And when I say "zero links" I mean what a lot of SEO's in the other parts of this site would be talking about...like services, and blog networks, and the traditional "SEO Services" thing that people sell.


              If you are ranking highly without ANY LINKS AT ALL (not paid for, I mean non-existent) then you are right...I clearly don't "get it".
              Search, Belleville Defense Attorney

              Top 3, one of my sites come up, that doesn't have a home page, has broken PHP, and only has an optimized title tag/domain name, no back links, but gets over 100 hits/mo that just hit the back button cuz nothing is there.

              Of course I'm right, I literally have THOUSANDS of websites. I had my own private network, my own adsense network, and on top of that client websites.

              I have found that 75% of websites do not need backlinks in order to rank in the top 3-5 of Google, unless it is extreme competition. Even then, I also have a client in new york city, in a very competitive industry that has never needed a single back link.

              I can also state, that one of my bigger clients, ace hardware which the contract was up last month and won't be renewed again until January, has benefited from on page optimization of thousands of pages and keywords. About 35,000 keywords that are ranking in the top 10 have never had a single backlink built.
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              • Profile picture of the author wally247
                Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

                Search, Belleville Defense Attorney

                Top 3, one of my sites come up, that doesn't have a home page, has broken PHP, and only has an optimized title tag/domain name, no back links, but gets over 100 hits/mo that just hit the back button cuz nothing is there.

                Of course I'm right, I literally have THOUSANDS of websites. I had my own private network, my own adsense network, and on top of that client websites.

                I have found that 75% of websites do not need backlinks in order to rank in the top 3-5 of Google, unless it is extreme competition. Even then, I also have a client in new york city, in a very competitive industry that has never needed a single back link.

                I can also state, that one of my bigger clients, ace hardware which the contract was up last month and won't be renewed again until January, has benefited from on page optimization of thousands of pages and keywords. About 35,000 keywords that are ranking in the top 10 have never had a single backlink built.



                I'm not interested in a pissing contest, but you can correct me on this if you like.


                The first 2 sites are some sort of directory, which if yours...nice job! That's a big site, with a lot of links pointing to it per Majestic SEO.


                The actual link on the pages don't show in Majestic, but the root of the site has over 8,000 links...which in my opinion can not qualify as "no links".


                But I could also be getting the entire concept of "juice" wrong as well, so I'm sure I'm wrong in assuming link juice would be passed down to the URL that ranks for in said search.


                If you are the #3 then Majestic SEO says there are 200 links pointing at that domain, which is not zero.


                Just in case our searches aren't the same, maybe you are the #4 where I am, then I'm impressed...because there are zero links that Majestic reports and there's not even any content except a message about redesign.



                And to add. What I am trying to say isn't that SEO doesn't work, or that link building of any kind doesn't work, because clearly it does.


                I am saying that Google does not care about "quality content" and "white hat". If you believe that, I guess I can't change that...but I never will.


                The world is investigating Google because they are deceptive A-Holes who put their own properties high up in search results to trick people into buying from them, while pushing retailers down. This is fact, and you can find it anywhere on Youtube.

                In MY OPINION, this is not a company who is looking for "quality content" from Mom & Pops Dry cleaners
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          • Profile picture of the author socialbacklink
            Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

            What? I have 1,000+ sites that say otherwise and a major client ranking for over 50,000 keywords in the past 2.5 years that says otherwise.

            You just don't understand SEO bro. No offense intended but you just don't "get it" like most people on here. SEO isn't about building links, or changing meta descriptions. Learn how beneficial user experience optimization can be and then you will see how ultimately is the best SEO strategy around.

            MARKET your website and you will rank well. Backlink the hell out of your website and you won't. Over optimize, and you won't. Build a natural website for your visitors and work on marketing it and you will never be at risk.

            Forget everything you have ever learned about SEO, and focus on creating the best possible user experience.
            This is the key right here. I'll vouch for this with the testing I've done. I've done very minimal backlinking and mainly just focused on true marketing and I've never lost a site by a Google update. It's about building traditional marketing sites. It's not so much "Good content" as it is content that is valuable to your demographic or readers. If that's the case they will naturally build the right kind of links for you. They will naturally tell others and your business will grow as will your rankings. Don't try to manipulate people doing these things. Actually get them to do it with your site or your content.

            If you aren't using PPC to scout keywords for SEO you are wasting your time. SEO isn't hard. I love how these guys will over optimize their sites and backlinking. The algorithms were created by MIT guys. Do you really think you'll outsmart them? If you do it won't be for long before the next update and they smack you down.

            I'm one of those guys that's about the fundamentals. Not the latest guru technique. Do I have techniques that I use? Of course. They are ones I've developed over the years out of watching for patterns and things that I know work because of testing. To me a technique is just something that gave the desired result and I repeat it over and over. Not a loop hole in the system.

            Google is out to provide a good solid business. That means they want to provide great search results and user experience. That's it. If you do that, it won't matter if it's PPC, SEO, whatever you do will succeed. Marketing is about principles and fundamentals. Google is getting smart enough to weed out the trash trying to manipulate the system. I've never had any problems with PPC or SEO because I do it the way the right way. Because, like Google, I want to create a good name for myself. Not just a bundle of cash that disappears at the next update.
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            • Profile picture of the author wally247
              Originally Posted by socialbacklink View Post

              This is the key right here. I'll vouch for this with the testing I've done. I've done very minimal backlinking and mainly just focused on true marketing and I've never lost a site by a Google update. It's about building traditional marketing sites. It's not so much "Good content" as it is content that is valuable to your demographic or readers. If that's the case they will naturally build the right kind of links for you. They will naturally tell others and your business will grow as will your rankings. Don't try to manipulate people doing these things. Actually get them to do it with your site or your content.

              If you aren't using PPC to scout keywords for SEO you are wasting your time. SEO isn't hard. I love how these guys will over optimize their sites and backlinking. The algorithms were created by MIT guys. Do you really think you'll outsmart them? If you do it won't be for long before the next update and they smack you down.

              I'm one of those guys that's about the fundamentals. Not the latest guru technique. Do I have techniques that I use? Of course. They are ones I've developed over the years out of watching for patterns and things that I know work because of testing. To me a technique is just something that gave the desired result and I repeat it over and over. Not a loop hole in the system.

              Google is out to provide a good solid business. That means they want to provide great search results and user experience. That's it. If you do that, it won't matter if it's PPC, SEO, whatever you do will succeed. Marketing is about principles and fundamentals. Google is getting smart enough to weed out the trash trying to manipulate the system. I've never had any problems with PPC or SEO because I do it the way the right way. Because, like Google, I want to create a good name for myself. Not just a bundle of cash that disappears at the next update.

              I am not (trying) to say anything different here...not at all.


              Good quality draws links from other people who say "wow, what a great site I'll link to it" right?




              And with enough of that kind of thing going on, you would have lots of links from reputable sites. You would have real, genuine links to your site with 100% natural and varied anchor text and the friendly fellows at Google would reward you with high rankings.


              I believe the above is to be correct, please let me know if I am out of line.


              But all of that is not the same as "zero links". If nobody links to you, then Google has no idea who you are. You can't possibly move up very high with literally zero links if you are competing with other sites that have links (SEO'd or natural).


              This seems correct to me as well, but hey maybe not...


              How would Google even know a website exists on the internet if not for a single link pointing TO the site.


              That's all I'm asking. If you truly don't need links, then I guess I've been wasting a lot of time trying to attract links (attract through marketing, not through paying guys with SENukeXXX).


              I'm not talking about marketing.....I'm talking about having zero links and still ranking but maybe my words are just not coming out right....


              Thankfully there's alcohol and guitars to make me remember that computers only provide so much entertainment in life...



              With all of this being moot anyway because SEO is not the only thing I've learned how to do on internetz.

              That's all....i'm exhausted.
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              • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
                Originally Posted by wally247 View Post

                I'm not interested in a pissing contest, but you can correct me on this if you like.


                The first 2 sites are some sort of directory, which if yours...nice job! That's a big site, with a lot of links pointing to it per Majestic SEO.


                The actual link on the pages don't show in Majestic, but the root of the site has over 8,000 links...which in my opinion can not qualify as "no links".


                But I could also be getting the entire concept of "juice" wrong as well, so I'm sure I'm wrong in assuming link juice would be passed down to the URL that ranks for in said search.


                If you are the #3 then Majestic SEO says there are 200 links pointing at that domain, which is not zero.


                Just in case our searches aren't the same, maybe you are the #4 where I am, then I'm impressed...because there are zero links that Majestic reports and there's not even any content except a message about redesign.



                And to add. What I am trying to say isn't that SEO doesn't work, or that link building of any kind doesn't work, because clearly it does.


                I am saying that Google does not care about "quality content" and "white hat". If you believe that, I guess I can't change that...but I never will.


                The world is investigating Google because they are deceptive A-Holes who put their own properties high up in search results to trick people into buying from them, while pushing retailers down. This is fact, and you can find it anywhere on Youtube.

                In MY OPINION, this is not a company who is looking for "quality content" from Mom & Pops Dry cleaners
                I dunno, I don't use Majestic, but I know there are 0 backlinks. Maybe it is ranking #4 for you, it's #3 here and #2 in another city close to here so I guess it's pulling different results. It isn't a directory, just a site with broken php and a login. Not even quality content.

                Google does care about quality content, google does not care about "white hat" SEO, because white hat SEO doesn't exist. These are terms coined by the SEO community and then regurgitated by Google.

                What quality content is defined as, is key. Quality content doesn't mean it needs to be link worthy.

                What you say is fact, is paranoid opinion. I can also find hundreds of videos on youtube talking about HAARP, faked moon landings, thousands of other conspiracy theories as well, but the funny thing is that you're using a Google property to state a "fact". LOL.

                A dry cleaner can easily provide quality content if you're creative enough.

                Originally Posted by wally247 View Post

                But all of that is not the same as "zero links". If nobody links to you, then Google has no idea who you are. You can't possibly move up very high with literally zero links if you are competing with other sites that have links (SEO'd or natural).


                This seems correct to me as well, but hey maybe not...

                How would Google even know a website exists on the internet if not for a single link pointing TO the site.

                That's all I'm asking. If you truly don't need links, then I guess I've been wasting a lot of time trying to attract links (attract through marketing, not through paying guys with SENukeXXX).

                I'm not talking about marketing.....I'm talking about having zero links and still ranking but maybe my words are just not coming out right....
                I showed you an example that had 0 links.

                Google finds websites because Google is also a domain registrar. Tell me, how can google index new domains I buy before I even do anything with it? They have no existing backlinks, but they get indexed without me having to do a single thing?

                Every site can be indexed, with no work involved. The reason for this is because Google, GoDaddy, Network Solutions and every other registrar out there has a shared database, and when a domain is purchased, Google knows and it gets crawled. And while we're on this topic, a "no-follow" link is still followed, lol.

                In your response, I can see many things wrong, once again, I'm not trying to offend you at all. You say you're trying to attract links... Usually when you try to attract links, you end up putting people off. Maybe not always, but people just don't want to link to something that seems like it's forced.

                I can rank most sites without a single link. Nothing but good ole on page optimization. You know, sometimes I don't even put in a meta description, I let google assign a meta description, unless I'm using PPC first.
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                • Profile picture of the author wally247
                  Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

                  I dunno, I don't use Majestic, but I know there are 0 backlinks. Maybe it is ranking #4 for you, it's #3 here and #2 in another city close to here so I guess it's pulling different results. It isn't a directory, just a site with broken php and a login. Not even quality content.

                  Google does care about quality content, google does not care about "white hat" SEO, because white hat SEO doesn't exist. These are terms coined by the SEO community and then regurgitated by Google.

                  What quality content is defined as, is key. Quality content doesn't mean it needs to be link worthy.

                  What you say is fact, is paranoid opinion. I can also find hundreds of videos on youtube talking about HAARP, faked moon landings, thousands of other conspiracy theories as well, but the funny thing is that you're using a Google property to state a "fact". LOL.

                  A dry cleaner can easily provide quality content if you're creative enough.



                  I showed you an example that had 0 links.

                  Google finds websites because Google is also a domain registrar. Tell me, how can google index new domains I buy before I even do anything with it? They have no existing backlinks, but they get indexed without me having to do a single thing?

                  Every site can be indexed, with no work involved. The reason for this is because Google, GoDaddy, Network Solutions and every other registrar out there has a shared database, and when a domain is purchased, Google knows and it gets crawled. And while we're on this topic, a "no-follow" link is still followed, lol.

                  In your response, I can see many things wrong, once again, I'm not trying to offend you at all. You say you're trying to attract links... Usually when you try to attract links, you end up putting people off. Maybe not always, but people just don't want to link to something that seems like it's forced.

                  I can rank most sites without a single link. Nothing but good ole on page optimization. You know, sometimes I don't even put in a meta description, I let google assign a meta description, unless I'm using PPC first.




                  No offense taken. I have no problem being wrong. My long-term plan is to get far away from SEO no matter what, because it is volatile in my opinion.


                  For Congress Vs. Google, here's the video if anyone is interested (likely not though).

                  It's not a theory....this is a real hearing and our government doesn't like what they are up to.



                  It's long....but interesting. And that's all.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
                    Yes, seen this video. This video was published just over a year ago. It is no news that Google has been under the scrutiny of some countries. The UK is having major issues with them and if they choose not to comply they'll just be blocked, just like Iran is doing right now.

                    Not sure that's much of a loss to Google though. haha

                    None of this is even remotely coincidence, here's the reason why in my opinion.

                    When companies get as large as Google, they are large but no where near the size of other companies. Such as major insurance companies.

                    They begin to think in terms of decades, not years, not months, not dates.

                    Right now what's happening they most likely anticipated 5 to 7 years ago. Right now what are they thinking about? Where are we in 2022? How are we going to get there, what problems can we expect, etc etc.

                    Anyways this really isn't the point of the thread so I'll get back on topic and see what other replies show up.

                    Originally Posted by wally247 View Post

                    No offense taken. I have no problem being wrong. My long-term plan is to get far away from SEO no matter what, because it is volatile in my opinion.


                    For Congress Vs. Google, here's the video if anyone is interested (likely not though).

                    It's not a theory....this is a real hearing and our government doesn't like what they are up to.

                    Google Senate Antitrust Hearing: Foundem's Analysis - YouTube


                    It's long....but interesting. And that's all.
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          • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
            I find it ironic that you say that and the OP sells white label seo services and the first person to reply is in the same boat pretty much.

            I have to agree with you about the back links stuff and all that jazz. I have sites ranking in the TOP positions on Google for going on 3 years now, they've survived every single update Google has released.

            Hell, I was just showing a guy today a site I set up to test my zen master method on. I created it in 2010, never did anything to it once I got it finished. Not ONE single piece of new content published on the site, NOT ONE single dip shit back link WSO or any other type of back link package purchased.

            The site rocks local plus rankings for every single page on the site, I have 8-9 of the first page results for videos and images. NOT a single back link purchased or even manually built by me.

            So as you say....

            And to the first two posters, I think you should try contributing instead of ranting about others. As this thread has progressed and I read the responses from people I know and trust I see a lot of hypocrisy going on.

            P.S. Further more, click the image link in my signature and read the bullet points right under the video.



            Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

            What? I have 1,000+ sites that say otherwise and a major client ranking for over 50,000 keywords in the past 2.5 years that says otherwise.

            You just don't understand SEO bro. No offense intended but you just don't "get it" like most people on here. SEO isn't about building links, or changing meta descriptions. Learn how beneficial user experience optimization can be and then you will see how ultimately is the best SEO strategy around.

            MARKET your website and you will rank well. Backlink the hell out of your website and you won't. Over optimize, and you won't. Build a natural website for your visitors and work on marketing it and you will never be at risk.

            Forget everything you have ever learned about SEO, and focus on creating the best possible user experience.
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  • Profile picture of the author dunsitree
    Great post man. Unfortunately there will always be people like that. I am new to IM and sometimes if you are not strong and determine things like that can sure kill your spirit. Thanks for mentioning it.
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  • Profile picture of the author starfall
    I would say that (unfortunately) that's the way the cookie crumbles... on practically all forums. Everyone thinks they are experts and other people are crap. That's why we should at first listen to ourselves and our own reason. Of course, it's great to use knowledge of other people who are more experienced or simply know more stuff, but we shouldn't switch our brains off.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
    The way to attract links is to first attract an audience that listens to you and reads what you publish. Then as a matter of fact you get natural back links without asking. You get shared on FB and Twitter, a local news station may run across a story you published on your site. You get a call, then a story, then major social proof.

    You see what's happening here?
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    • Profile picture of the author wally247
      Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

      The way to attract links is to first attract an audience that listens to you and reads what you publish. Then as a matter of fact you get natural back links without asking. You get shared on FB and Twitter, a local news station may run across a story you published on your site. You get a call, then a story, then major social proof.

      You see what's happening here?
      Forgive me if you aren't directing this at me...I'm feeling a bit narcissistic today.


      I think we can all agree that's a great way of getting links. That's how it's done I think everyone would agree.


      Attracting links = Having content that people like and share using their own will. That's what it meant when I typed it earlier, and still the same now.




      If you weren't talking to me....sorry, I still agree with what you said though.
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  • Profile picture of the author whossain
    Every man need to learn all sorts of life.I think SEO is a place where each person knows better than each person.So.I think here everything should regards himself as a student.
    Study is must need here about new Google update.
    Thanks.
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    • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
      Your grammar is terrible (worse then mine) and you call yourself and SEO expert? In which language, please do tell.

      Originally Posted by whossain View Post

      Every man need to learn all sorts of life.I think SEO is a place where each person knows better than each person.So.I think here everything should regards himself as a student.
      Study is must need here about new Google update.
      Thanks.
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  • Profile picture of the author cameronwhites
    Banned
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by cameronwhites View Post

      I want 1000 social bookmarking dofollow list any body can send me the doffolow social bookmarking list please?
      Anything else?
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      • Hi All

        Hey Rus - Great stuff on the info re the marketing of your business/site/web properties.

        Just chiming in with a definition of experts that has served us well.

        Ex - is the unknown quantity
        Spert - is a "drip" under pressure.


        Enough said.

        Regards
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        • Profile picture of the author taranisman
          This is the problem with focusing so much on SEO. If you have a strictly online business than SEO can be very important.

          I really think that what Google wants is people talking about your business...Social Signals. Social media and Reputation Management are where it's at right now.

          You can rank #1 for whatever term you want, but people are still going to look up reviews.

          Bad reviews = No new customers.

          It seems to me that so many business owners have been burned by an SEO guy that they are all gun shy when it comes to any sort of online marketing. When people are saying good things about the business, either by social media such as Facebook or Google+, or by having great reviews posted online, this can be much more powerful than just having a website that ranks well, especially if that site isn't pretty or useful. With good reviews and social signals, people are much less likely to care about your actual website.
          Signature

          Quit Your Job In 90 Days... http://ArbitrageMastery.com

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