Telemarketing? Direct Mail? Adwords?-None Of It Works Like Its Supposed To!

28 replies
I had this post somewhere else, but I moved it so it could help more people.
Alot of my threads start by accident like that.

This is coming from the telemarketing aspect of offline marketing, but also touches on other methods:


There are different types of telemarketers in my view, the ones who barely make quota, the ones who "just" make quota and could do better, and the kind who always exceed quota.

The law of numbers itself will get you some sales and help you barely make quota each week.

The thing is that for a Warrior , as opposed to an hourly telemarketer, barely making quota is pretty significant, as even just ONE sale per week can make you hundreds or thousands of dollars. So a Warrior performing at even 10% of an hourly telemarketers quota will practically get rich.

Can you do even 10% of what a pot smoking, under qualified, un educated 20 year old kid who knows nothing about marketing does every day for 10-12 bucks per hour?

Can you even BARELY perform, at some thing that over 5 million AVERAGE people do day in and day out like nothing?

If so, then as a self employed business person, you can make ten times as much money as they make.

If not you need to seriously consider if you should be thinking about being in business.

Even MINIMUM performance will make you money, if you are willing to break out of the comfort zone just a little, not even ALOT!

Having a mediocre humdrum energy, yet having said your pitch enough to be able to get it out with fluidity will get you to make quota consistently, and learning to manage your energy, and stay connected with your prospects energy , monitoring theirs as well....will have you always EXCEEDING quota.

That (performing above average) does not come with time...because you can go through the motions, and perform average for years, that comes with truly applying yourself to the development of your skills. Taking the good and the bad, the losses and the victories, and learning from them and getting better.

In any event, we all start with the basic law of numbers usually... And even going through the motions only, performing "average" will make a Warrior rich using telemarketing.

Stumbling through our presentations, being barely able to pay attention to our energy because we are learning our pitch for the first hundred numbers...

We all go through the phases of discouragement

A: Thinking the lead list sucks (usually it doesnt).
B: Thinking "There has to be a better way", and fantasizing about all the ways we can get out of it.
C: Telling ourselves that "No one wants it" and being tempted to change our plan.
D: Telling ourselves it doesnt work...

Many do not make it through that, they fall for their own excuses about the leads, or the market, or the strategy...

The ones who stay in business DO make it through that though, and we find out what it looks out on the other side. And we view the ones going through that and think "If you only knew".

The question for each of us is "Am I going to be one who makes it through, or am I going to be one who falls by the wayside?"

Most of the things that cause people to fail are mere mirages.

Its like saying "I cant play guitar, this is impossible", when the fact is that playing guitar is alot about muscle memory and conditioning. It seems impossible at first and you cant understand how people do it.

Then your muscles get used to being in those hand positions, and they stop hurting, and they become easier to do...until

Is nothing.

At first it seems awkward and impossible.

Telemarketing is the same way only its ALOT more financially rewarding once you get past that.

The people who play guitar get all kinds of benefits, and the people who want to but who give up too soon, miss all those rewards. Telemarketing is the same way.

If you are willing to put yourself through a little conditioning you can make a ton of money on the phone. And guess what?

Even if you suck at first, you will still make money if you stay on, until you get better.

For some, its easy, because they read the advice given, and just take it. Other will listen to experienced advice and still fight it all the way.

You cant be a champ if you arent willing to condition yourself a little.

Its just a fact of life. Wanna be the 20% or the 80%?

The 80% are unwilling to do what the 20% will do, they arent as dedicated or mentally strong.

Wanna try direct mail?

Get ready to spend money and possibly not succeed for months, you have to condition yourself for ANY success.

You think you are going to become a pro advertiser and copy writer over night? Is that realistic to believe?

Honestly... No. Take it or leave it, but you will find that what Im saying is true, these things take alot of understanding of marketing that doesnt come usually just from reading a book. It takes time and understanding to OWN your knowledge and be able to wield it effectively. It doesnt happen over night.

Not likely.

Did you buy Don Lapre's classified ads program in the nineties?

Guess what- IT WORKS!!!

98% percent say its a rip off, but that doesnt stop the dedicated 2% from making hundreds of thousands of dollars with it.

But its not likely to work for YOU for months , and you will have to endure months of testing and financial investment.

Want to try adwords?

Okay, well I hope you unde4rstand keyword research real well, because if you havent tried it, and all you have is learning knowledge, its going to likely be alot of time and investment before you OWN the understanding of that knowledge.

Success does not happen for anyone who is looking to get around self development, and the number one thing that requires is getting around your own mind.

Telemarketing is the FASTEST way to see results because usually in the development curve you still make money because the numbers are working for you in a different way.

However... it still may take you a few hundred numbers to get in your groove, or you may take right to it the first day...If you dont, then dont give up , you will.... But not if you believe what your mind says

"The leads arent working"
"The market is saturated"
The strategy is bad, there must be a better way".

Then you will be like the gold miner who stopped digging and gave up just 6 inches before he hit the gold vein. Success could be around any bend, but you wont know unless you turn it.

No matter what you do if you cant look around and use logic and say "It DOES work, because its working all around me for others and I can see that".... then you wont succeed, because the mind will talk you out of everything you try.

Learning to walk wasnt easy, but you all do it.

Growing up, and experiencing heartaches... peer pressure.... All of that was not easy... But here you are.

Whatrs the difference?

You "HAD" to make it through all of that...you were forced to deal with it or never walk...

But you walked, because you could see people doing it all around you, and you WANTED to... Your muscles would barely let you stand leaning against a table at one time, and it seemed impossible, but now you laugh at children, because you know it was entirely possible, and that its possible for them too.

Telemarketing for some and making big fat checks, will seem impossible, and hourly telemarketers are FORCED to stay on the phone or lose their job, until they get through it....Later its nothing but a days work and they make quota every day.

In closing, before I write a whole book here...

Its possible for EVERYONE... you can see that all around you... you will learn to manage your energy, just like you learned to manage your balance and go from leaning on a table and barely being able to keep your knees from buckling, to now walking like its nothing and not even thinking of it.

The only problem is this: You DO have a choice. Unlike the hourly guys in booths.

You CAN choose to walk away and fall for the traps of the mind... and most DO...and they walk away from the next thing, and the next thing....

Do you want to be in business?

A success has to be willing to endure what the failure will not.

Its really a choice. Nothing is going to be easy at first, but once you break through the walls, with enough repetition almost EVERYTHING can become natural and easy.

I gotta go, Im getting too passionate here and yall are going to think Im crazy.

I swear , when I first telemarketed I was the worse one in the room, and every day at break time I would stare at my truck and dream of jumping in it and nev er even going back to collect my last paycheck... but I stuck it out...and soon I was making sales left and right. EVERYONE goes through those brain traps...the mental "gantlet"...

Some turn back, and some make it to victory...the question for all of us is "Which one am I going to be?"

I have just seen this enough to know, and thats why its soo hard for me to not preach about it, because I know how much it can help you if you will simply understand these words, and not just read them.

-JD

Ps. One more example...

I have 4600 posts, mostly about telemarketing...

There was a time when I looked at others with this many posts, talking about making a ton of money with their sig links...

When I had 300 posts, I could stick a link in my sig and nothing would happen...I might make a sale or two over a month

Not having any experience or owning the understanding of making people click a sig link... All I had was the law of numbers to work for me...and much like a telemarketer who says "I have dialed 300 times and Im not rich yet? Or like a direct mailer who says "I sent out 500 peices and NOTHING? This doesnt work! Its too hard"

Just like those two examples I was like "I have made 300 posts and this is all that happens?"

Thats not enough posts? How can this idea of making money with a sig ever work if a whole three hundred posts wont do it?"

I didnt understand the principles, or OWN them, and I didnt understand how the numbers really worked, and I didnt understand alot of things... the "nuances" of things, that made sense in theory, but worked only based on certain variables in real life.

Fast forward...

Today I put a link in my sig and it goes out on over FORTY SIX HUNDRED posts... and I make sales every single day with my sig... consistently, day in and day out...

And guess what?

I have learned to do it (post) more effectively. My posts are "better", and they have all the things in them that make a person click, and I DONT THINK about it EVER...Everything comes naturally now... I have the law of numbers, and I have alot of understanding that comes from working all those numbers for all that time...

I want to tell you something with this example...there are things you wont understand dialing 100 numbers, that you will understand at 5,000 numbers, and ten thousand....

But EVERYTHING you do is going to work that way...fact is it will work much faster with telemarketing usually than any other way in my experience.

There were things I didnt understand in my third day of telemarketing, that I understood better after 30 days, then after 100 days...and now Im as good as they come, and I can make money anytime I sit down to call with little effort.

You can either learn from the advice given...or you can take years to get good, or you can NEVER get good. Its all a personal choice. 4600 posts has been a long journey, and Im much better off for taking it!

What is success worth?

To each individual that is a personal question they have to ask themselves.

Posting works, adwords works, direct mail works.....but if you think you dont have to be mentally strong about it, and if you think you wont have to overcome your own mind trying to convince you to fail (and I priomise you, every excuse it gives you will seem legit), then you can nev er get to the other side.

Again, in my experience, telemarketing works the fastest for offline....but unless you understand what Im telling you, and ignore your miond, you will never get to the other side no matter WHAT route you take...

I leave you with this priceless quote from my greatest inspiration- Og mandino:

"The career I have chosen is laden with opportunity yet it is fraught with heartbreak
and despair and the bodies of those who have failed, were they piled one atop
another, would cast its shadow down upon all the pyramids of the earth.
Yet I will not fail, as the others, for in my hands I now hold the charts, which will
guide me through perilous waters to shores, which only yesterday seemed but a
dream.
" _Og



Hope this helps someone.

-JD
#adwords #direct #mail #supposed #telemarketing #works
  • Profile picture of the author Cay78
    Inspiring post John.....I needed that Thanks!
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    There are 2 types of people in this world....those who get it and those who don't. The ones that get it know exactly what we are talking about. The ones who don't are left scratching their heads.

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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by Cay78 View Post

      Inspiring post John.....I needed that Thanks!
      No prob, just kinda poured out...That happens every now and then. Glad it helped you!
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      • Profile picture of the author Jeremy James
        John,

        Check the old "Telemarketing for Ministers" thread. I responded. Hope to be redoing the video soon.
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        • Profile picture of the author John Durham
          Originally Posted by Jeremy James View Post

          John,

          Check the old "Telemarketing for Ministers" thread. I responded. Hope to be redoing the video soon.
          Just had company come in Jeremy, when they leave I will check it out. Cool, that you took some action. Yes, that was an action. You are involving other people and getting your dream out of just your head. Thats a start.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mwind076
    You CAN choose to walk away and fall for the traps of the mind... and most DO...and they walk away from the next thing, and the next thing....

    I'd like to expand this to business owners - and those that are hiring TM's. In fact, your advice can apply to everyone in a roundabout way. Here's what your post inspired...forgive me.

    1) We hear clients say "I just need you to get me any appointments/sales/leads, doesn't matter what type, I can talk them into it." This floors me when we hear people that are asking us to speed it up or cut corners on qualifying because they just want SOMETHING rolling in. Really? You want to spend your precious time trying to talk someone into something because you don't want to wait for the good, qualified people? Are you so bored that you just want to talk to someone? Anyone?

    Of course starting out on anything will be slow, calls, sales, a new list, but to cut yourself short to get a large number of responses is not a better option than going after the quality people that are interested. My time is much more valuable than talking to LOTS of people that don't want to talk to me. ANY new venture, job, call campaign, takes time, and it will get better, but never sell yourself short, or other people will join in.

    (I'm not talking about qualified potential clients that end up not interested...of course you keep talking to them, using rebuttals, further explaining. That's another subject.)

    2)I can't tell you how many clients we have that call and say "I've hired 3/5/10 callers and NO one can produce for me. I'd like to try you out." My first question "how long did you keep each of them around?" The answer "I tried them for a week each." UGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

    Listen up people, you CANNOT be successful, or have anyone else be successful after one week, especially in cold calling. First of all, I'm betting you gave the SAME (usually crappy) list to your 3/5/10 callers, second, I'm also betting you didn't hire someone that knew what the hell they were doing. Third, you will get minimal return in a week on cold calling (unless you are doing survey's), yes, you'll get some, it's the law of dialing. You won't get quality, you won't get to the meat of your caller knowing the script/conversation, you won't get the buildup and reaping of call backs. You can't reap the benefits without sowing the seeds.

    The reason your callers are failing is because you're too worried about getting ANYTHING to come in, and you're also not hiring someone that knows how to get your business coming in. They are not failing, you are. You're using a list that you gathered (not one you bought), or you had Jim-bob your friend make one who has this great scrubbing program, or you're using this new CRM that pulled your list...blah blah blah. Instead of spending money on things that will not help you, how about you invest in someone that knows THEIR job and can do it without your help? I don't have to tell you how to SELL your product once I make the appointment for you, so how about you hire me, buy the list how I tell you, pull it how I tell you (with the correct parameters/demographic/SIC codes) and sit back and watch me do my job - so you can do yours? Sorry, got off track...

    You will not be successful in one week, on anything, you will be better at the end than you were at the beginning, but that second week, first month, third month, you'll be kicking ass!

    In closing, we've learned not to work with those wanting to "try it out" "test" or that just want to "check the water" - we tell them to call someone else, and when they go through a few other callers, they can call us back to set up a contract. Guess what, they always call back. We also require a one month commitment to weed out the people that have no idea what they are doing, because I will not allow myself to fail, and it is not my goal to have my clients fail. We want them to be happy and stick around!

    Go big, or go home.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    @ Mwind,

    Yup "I have 300 posts and Im still not rich with my sig?"

    Lol.

    I hired someone to call for me , and spent five hundred dollars, and I got only one sale?

    Thats why companies have departments called "research and development", because NOTHING happens without development.

    An outsourcer is basically "developing" your sales program for you, and you are basically "developing" how you work with the leads they write for you.

    If you are hiring a telemarketing outsourcer to piliot something that you cant pilot yourself, you think a week is giving it a chance?

    Thats the difference between a success and a failure.

    Giving up after three hundred posts is not what the successful people did.

    Giving up after 2000 mailers is not what the successful direct mail marketers did.

    Giving up after losing a thousand dollars on adwords is not what the successful adwords advertisers did.

    Hiring a telemarketing outsourcer and giving up on outsourcing after burning through $500 is NOT what the successful people did who have great sales outsourcers that produce like clock work.

    Some people on the WF are successful at what they do, and alot of people want to learn...but I promise you- Mwind can telemarket because she didnt give up when everyone else turned back, Bob Ross and Brucenewmedia did not give up after losing their ass on 2000 mailers when everyone else did, Don Lapre didnt give up after 5 ways of generating business for his little paint company didnt work... like the others did.

    When it comes to hiring outsourcers.... Do you think you can train a Philippine company on your program for $500?

    Not to plug, but you would be better off to hire a Warrior....and plan on ionvesting for a month, at the end of that month you will see a few sales, and your whole months investment will come back, but you and your telemarketer are just warming up on $500...

    Anyway, heres what a big outsourcing org will do with your five hundred dollars:

    They will spread it out over ten telemarketers and burn it up in an hour.

    Doeesnt that make sense?

    Success makes common sense folks.

    Now if a huge outsourcing org that has a hundred telemarketers and burns up your whole $500 , in one hour by putting ten telemarketers on it - do you think they have had time to "develop" your program?

    No.

    I know, I have run some of those rooms.

    Again, not plugging, but thats why its better to hire a Warrior if your budget isnt huge, because for two grand you can get developed for a month with most individual outsourcers in a place like this and have a chance to make your investment back.

    Let me tell you something else too- It MAY JUST HAPPEN on your first five hundred dollars, and you may quadruple your money....but it may not too....you have to give a sales person a chance to at least warm up on developing your program, and if you are doing it yourself , you have to give your SELF a chance.

    Thats me being "frank", yet still being John. :rolleyes: I dont think anyone who has succeeded at anything would tell you any different.

    You can take Iamnameless advice, just like he was probably taking someone elses, but can you work sixteen hours a day for 90 days straight like he did before seeing the kind of success he wanted, and still be dedicated to your ideas, unlike all the other people who tried that same advice verbatim and didnt apply themselves like he did through failures and all?

    Guys , just because there is an 80.20 rule doesnt mean you have an 80% chance of failure, it just means that 80% wont be willing to apply the dedication that the twenty percent do. You really do have a choice to be in either camp you want to be in.

    And yes, that even applies to hiring outsourcers. You have to be willing to give success a fair chance.

    Ps.

    If you wonder why posts by telemarketers are so long....its because we actually have alot to say, and we dont have to refer to manuals to type off the top of our head what we have learned a thousand times over.

    Another thing guys.... we all started out close to broke with little or no budget.... so if thats you, you arent the exception. We all figure out how to work with or around it. Thats the fact. So dont say this doesnt apply to you, because you dont have alot of money to invest.

    You know what an up and coming success does?

    They figure out a way to make the money to invest or they do it themselves until they are in a better position.

    No excuses... Heck I fail, and I take the blame for my failures....there is usually a good reason, but you know what the alternative to admitting that is?

    Being a victim to every excuse and never succeeding. I would rather take responsibility for my failures, than to think Im a victim to them. NO successful person believes they are a victim to circumstances, and if you want to be one, you have to be the same way.

    No money to invest in yourself? Make it.

    Its successes way or the highway. Thats the truth.

    Cant afford to really develop an outsourcing partner?

    Get on the phone and make it then.... It aint gonna happen by itself- Nothin from nothin equal nothin.

    I leave you with some more great literature...

    "Equipment"

    by
    Edgar A. Guest

    Figure it out for yourself, my lad.
    You’ve got all that the greatest of men have had,

    Two arms, two hands, two legs, two eyes,
    And a brain to use if you would be wise.

    With this equipment they all began,
    So start for the top and say, "I Can."

    Look them over, the wise and the great,
    They take their food from a common plate,

    And similar knives and forks they use,
    With similar laces they tie their shoes.

    The world consider them brave and smart,
    But you’ve got all they had when they made their start.

    You can triumph and come to skill,
    You can be great if you only will.

    You’re well equipped for the fight you choose,
    You have arms and legs and a brain to use.

    And the man who has risen great deeds to do,
    Began his life with no more than you.

    You are the handicap you must face,
    You are the one who must choose your place,

    You must say where you want to go,
    How much you will study the truth to know.

    God has equipped you for life, but He
    Lets you decide what you want to be.

    Courage must come from the soul within,
    The man must furnish the will to win.

    So figure it out for yourself, my lad,
    You were born with all the great have had,

    With your equipment they all began.
    Get hold of yourself, and say: "I Can."

    from Collected Verse of Edgar Guest
    NY:Buccaneer Books, 1976, pg. 666


    I gotta get outta here guys. If I overstate myself this post will come across as arrogant instead of helpful, and seem self indulgent.... I want it to help people. Hope you dig it fellas and fellets and that it helps you.

    -JD
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  • Profile picture of the author Mwind076
    It's not arrogance if you know what you're talking about.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    I would also like to add that this is something an individual single person can do from a kitchen table and a scratch pad if they want to, and make alot of money. I have done it myself when my back was against the wall plenty of times with only those two things....well, and a phone and phone book.
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  • Profile picture of the author socialbacklink
    This is sooooo true. I've had so many tell me "it's too saturated, it's too this, it's too that". If that's the case why am I working like there is no competition? Maybe because there really isn't. Everyone is saying it's too... and giving up. It just takes sticking to it. People would be blown away if they realized how close they were when they quit.

    Einstein once said that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. So, then people play around with something and give up because it doesn't flood in immediately. Then, they try something else that they give up on. It's called a never-ending cycle for a reason!

    An old friend who is a total country boy told me years ago "if you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always gotten". That means try something different. Stick to it. If something doesn't work right away figure out why. One time I changed ONE word in a headline and the campaign went from losing money to making thousands per DAY! Find out why it's not working. Fix it. You've put in the work. Now put in a little more.

    I'm with you John. I could hop on a soap box all day on this one. It drives me insane when people tell me adwords doesn't work anymore. Really? I'm not struggling. Direct Mail doesn't work...calls don't work...Craigslist doesn't work...(I closed over $2,000 from Craigslist leads in one day last week. And that was just answering ads. I'm not even placing them yet. I wanted to get this working first.) Don't give up until you see some results. If it takes a week let it. If it takes a month let it. John is 100% correct. You don't make money if you give up. The guys making the money are the ones that FOCUS on something and see it through. They work very smart at it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Irish Intuition
    I believe most want to believe this stuff does not work

    It absolves them of failing. It sounds a lot better saying
    to yourself 'see, I knew that was bullsh-t' over "I must
    be doing something wrong".

    Most start their business and think they are now a master
    of all things business, when in fact most do not even know
    how to do what they are selling very good.

    Great thread John
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  • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
    This is sooooo true. I've had so many tell me "it's too saturated, it's too this, it's too that".
    That's code for it's to hard and I want an easier way to make money.

    Let me speak to that in a different light.

    Back in the day when I was in insurance restoration that was part of my paper hanger mentality. Oh yes, thousands, literally thousands of homes needed repairs. Repairs that the home owners didn't even have to pay for! It was all paid by insurance companies.

    Well of course many insurance restoration companies would come to town bringing with them hundreds and hundreds of salesmen. So many salesman that you'd see them all over the place in the damaged areas!

    I used to complain about that and think to myself, If only I could find an area where no other salesman has been! Then I'd make all the sales I wanted!

    I was just lying to myself in all honesty because it wasn't the fact that there were hundreds maybe even a couple of thousand competing salespeople, yes some storms were large enough to sustain that many. Anyways, I was just using that as an excuse for not being a good salesman, for not setting myself apart from the crowd.

    Trust me guys, when I finely woke up and took responsibility for my own lack luster sales and decided to improve everything changed and I became one of the top salesman in my industry. Note, I said industry not company.

    If I can do it in an environment where there are only 100 homes to every salesman surely in our current offline space you can do it when there are 1000's upon 1000's of businesses per 1 Offline company.
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  • Profile picture of the author mak25
    Originally Posted by xuled View Post

    Your post is really big and i think you should simplify your words.
    It sounds to me as if you and a book have never met.

    Pity. You are the epitome of short attention span.

    Hope that wasn't too long for you.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by mak25 View Post

      It sounds to me as if you and a book have never met.

      Pity. You are the epitome of short attention span.

      Hope that wasn't too long for you.
      Someone said earlier..."success leaves clues"..., this post isnt for everyone, neither is my style...but to some it will be a clue for them along the way to their own moments of greatness.
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  • Profile picture of the author gustoking
    great post.. thanks for sharing
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  • Profile picture of the author Joe Benjamin
    I don't know anyone who gave up learning how to
    tie their shoes.

    Remember that one?

    It took almost 14 days, 3 to 6 hours a day sitting in a
    dark corner of my room...trying...trying...trying.

    "It's soooo simple", I told myself. "It's just a loop! Why is it
    taking so long? Hmmm...I like this challenge!"

    It became a game...like a puzzle...a *conquest* if you
    will, to learn how to tie these shoes.

    Determined to tie my own shoes and NEVER rely on my
    mom and dad to do it for me before going to school...
    I but in a LOT of hours and days trying different combo's
    and loops.

    At first, I was sloppy.

    The loops were too big.

    They were too small.

    They were too tight.

    The laces were everything BUT *just perfect*.

    So...

    I scratched my head in bewilderment...what the hell
    am I doing wrong? I'm copying the way my parents
    showed me how to do it...so why can't I get it on the
    first try?

    Is there something wrong with me?

    Nah. My hands work just as well as anyone else's...it's
    cool. This is *fun*....because I KNOW I'll get it eventually.

    ...heck, that's how I learned how to ride my bike. It must
    be the same.

    And it was.

    After about 15 days of practice...something *clicked*.

    "A perfect knot? this can't be..."

    I untie the lace, and do it again with success.

    "WOOHOO!" I got it! Mom! Dad! Look what I did"

    (laughing)...looking back, my parents looked at me
    like I was little crazy...but they shared my enthusiasim.

    Perhaps they remembered when they, too...had that
    lightbulb moment for what is too them now a no-brainer.

    I spent the next 30 or so days...tying my shoes...unlacing
    them...and tying them again out of *joy*...skipping days
    playing outside because...here I am...I conquered some
    -thing I'll always have for the rest of my life.

    I *made* it...I stuck with it...I didn't give up.

    Why do I share this intimate story?

    Because it's one for which we can ALL relate to.

    So what changes? What's the difference between now
    and then?

    Slowly...we lose our sense of *curiosity*. Year by year...
    it's striped away because we're taught mistakes are
    bad...we're even punished for our mistakes in the form
    of bad grades and scolding.

    We become FEARFUL of challenges and overcoming
    them.

    It's no longer an adventure.

    It's a burden.

    And that's the rub...

    to be successful in business, you MUST have that same
    drive and curiousity to experiment...to play...to learn
    what DOES work and what DOESN'T.

    Trial and error is *normal*...but it's treated as the devil.

    Failing and making mistakes, too many people here...
    is the WORST thing that could happen and is cause for
    a lot of people throwing in the towel.

    Give the same solution to a 10 year old version of your
    -self and watch him earn a living in less than 90 days.

    You were unstoppable than...and you are unstoppable
    now.

    No difference.

    The only thing that changed was a growing fear of mis-
    takes, learning from those mistakes and failure before
    success.

    It stops being a game...and becomes a serious venture.

    There's nothing *serious* about business. For it, too, is just
    a game. A game that happens to involve green pieces
    of paper people value.

    It's actually a lot of fun and...the rewards...if you stick
    with the game...are immense. It goes beyond just money.
    It makes you more confident and more willing to take
    on bigger challenges and new adventures because...
    eventually...you're going to want to tie a BIGGER knot
    in your shoes.

    ...you're going to want better shoes to tie knots in...

    you're going to want to open up your own shoe business.

    You're going to want to give shoes away to those less
    fortunate to have shoes to tie in the first place.

    In other words...

    you're going to want to learn and explore...MORE.

    But this drive...that curiousity fades away each time we
    give up on solving a problem...or shy away from making
    mistakes....

    ...eventually it *disappears*...and not trying or doing
    more things in life, as we now know, is one of the big-
    gest regrets people have JUST before death.

    Why? Because they realize...only too late...how much
    fun learning something new, challenging and mistakes
    really are.

    Hindsight is ALWAYS 20/20.

    Don't be THAT person. Be the other. The one who smiles
    when a test mailing fails. The one who jumps for joy
    when you botch a job interview. The one who gets
    pumped up when a potential client to him no...

    ...because you're one step closer to success for every-
    time you DON'T get the results you want.

    ...and when you finally get it...my god...it's bittersweet.

    ...Friends congratulate you.

    ...Strangers admire you.

    ...Family embrace you.

    You're FEARLESS. You're a role model. You're a shining
    example of what people USED to be and SHOULD be.

    You maintain and GROW your sense of curiousity...not
    shy away from it. And people respect it...because they
    all relate to how they, too...used to be the same....they
    see in you what used to be in themselves.

    This curiousity...is why I succeed. The same goes for John
    Durham, Alexis Smith, and so many other successful
    Warriors.

    ...they're not afraid to tie their shoes.
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    • Profile picture of the author mak25
      @WhoIsBenjamin: Your post was golden.

      Your analogy is universal. One of the best I've read in a long while.

      Thanks for sharing.
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by mak25 View Post

        @WhoIsBenjamin: Your post was golden.

        Your analogy is universal. One of the best I've read in a long while.

        Thanks for sharing.
        Ditto
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  • Profile picture of the author kimberly Aita
    @WhoIsBenjamin I seriously loved your post!! I am going to save it on a notepad on my desktop until I have enough ink to print that out. Truly awesome and inspiring

    Thanks John for this thread
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    • Profile picture of the author Joe Benjamin
      [DELETED]
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      • Profile picture of the author Joe Benjamin
        [QUOTE=WhoIsBenjamin;7151854]
        Thanks guys...

        I didn't think it would generate that kind of response.

        Feels good knowing people out there resonate with
        the message...a message we all know...in ourselves...
        to be true on some level.

        Peace...Love...and Happiness
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  • Profile picture of the author cottonswabs
    hey, i admit my list sucks. where do you guys buy your list from? i would like to sell websites.
    thanks
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by cottonswabs View Post

      hey, i admit my list sucks. where do you guys buy your list from? i would like to sell websites.
      thanks
      Thats what every telemarketer who didnt understand the process ever said since the beginning of time. If your list has businesses on it, then it dont suck. Keep dialing. Or follow a bell and whistle... spend money on every program that comes down the pike, and watch them all suck.... months down the road when others have 50 sales under their belt from a list just like yours, you will have tried 20 different lists and they will still all suck, if you dont take my advice.

      Believe me , Im helping you here.

      The best thing you can do is try to avoid major corporations, unless you are targeting them... and focus on small biz...thats not hard to "eye" for the most part. The rest of it is all the same, unless you generate incoming calls for yourself.

      Wanna buy a list of people who specifically dont have websites...? Why? There is a reason they dont...its because they have turned every web salesman on the planet down! lol It has to make sense, cold calling...

      A Yellow page directory is good enough...You will start making sales when you learn to dial more numbers...just be nice and make your offer, and keep dialing with what you have till someone says yes. The better you get , the more will say yes. A 12 year could dial enough numbers and someone would say yes eventually... So if you do that you will get some interest, again; the more you do it, the better you will get at spotting and capitalizing....

      Later you will learn to cherry pick what works for you, but right now you dont even KNOW what works for you yet...I can tell you, it wont be a new list.

      I can tell you what WILL work for you though....dialing enough numbers.

      Keep dialing. from the yellow pages if thats all you have , its FINE!

      Thats what successful cold callers do.

      You dont have to be more "hardcore", just more "realistic".

      Some will get this and some never will.

      This advice may not be popular, but time will prove its "true".
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        John; I love your insights. Your first post here mentioned direct mail, and reminded me of my struggles with advertising when I first opened a retail store 13 years ago.

        I opened a retail store in !999 selling vacuum cleaners. I knew selling very well, but advertising was a mystery to me and I decided "Advertising doesn't work" after buying several advertising programs that didn't get results.

        A young man named Blaine came into my store and stood politely, off to the side, waiting for me to finish a sale. He watched intently and asked if he could talk to me. Blaine started asking me questions about selling and advertising. He was the area rep for a direct mail coupon magazine.

        He was polite, listened to me, and gave me a free display ad in a direct mail piece. I couldn't say no. The ad failed. The next month, he came back and gave me another free ad. And we talked more about my business, selling, and life. I started liking this young man. I was convinced "advertising didn't work in my business" But, because this young man was persistent, and I refused another free ad, (I insisted on paying) I decided to try to figure out how to make an ad work.

        So I started buying ad space from him. Every month, for about 6 months, the ads failed to generate a single sale. But I bought direct marketing books by some of the greats, I read them, and started making changes.

        On the seventh month, I found people were coming in because of one small section I had in my ad.... and they were buying. So I continued studying, continued buying ads from Blaine, and slowly saw improvements.

        By the end of a year, my ads were bringing $30-$44 for every dollar I spent on the ads. I was a steady customer of my advertising friend. I was making money, hand over fist, from the ads.

        I helped him sell additional ads to my local business friends. I ended up helping them with their ads.

        I started placing multiple ads in the same mailer, all successful. I spoke at Blaine's annual company meeting. Dealers in my business started hearing about my success.

        I was a keynote speaker at my industry convention.

        I wrote a book on local advertising. I taught a course. And now, I make money teaching small businesses how to advertise online and offline.

        A couple of years ago, I got a call from the company CEO telling me that Blaine fell off his roof and died. I was the first client they called.

        I think about Blaine often and reflect on this series of events.
        Blaine never knew how to advertise. The thought of learning how never occurred to him. But he made me want to learn how to advertise.

        What would my life be like if I never met him? I would be running a store, but not as successfully. I wouldn't be an author. I wouldn't make money speaking. And I would still be that ignorant man telling anyone who would listen that "Advertising doesn't work".

        And now, I read posts by John Durham, Jason Kanigan, Ken Michaels, and a few others.
        Chipping away at pre-conceptions about cold calling. Freely sharing expertise.

        Please don't stop. This is good work you do.
        And stay off slippery roofs.
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        One Call Closing book https://www.amazon.com/One-Call-Clos...=1527788418&sr

        What if they're not stars? What if they are holes poked in the top of a container so we can breath?
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  • Profile picture of the author misterme
    Originally Posted by John Durham View Post


    Want to try adwords?

    Okay, well I hope you unde4rstand keyword research real well, because if you havent tried it, and all you have is learning knowledge, its going to likely be alot of time and investment before you OWN the understanding of that knowledge.
    Isn't that the truth? I started my adwords account one year and eleven months ago. I read up on Perry Marshall and lord knows how many others. Dove deep.

    All in all I must've tried over a dozen different tactics because let me tell you, in NYC, "nyc wedding photographer" and its variations are huge, HIGHLY competitive keywords where even at $8 - $10 a bid there's so much competition that a spot on the first page is tough to land, let along get a click, though not impossible. With alternative concepts, which I called "side door techniques" (because it was side stepping the more direct keywords and getting me in as though a side door), sure I showed up on the first page and got click through's - but they were still pretty costly at around $3 - 6.

    Until I finally figured out something that gets me the number one spot (usually), high CTR - and for pennies. But it took me one year and eleven months.

    Selling is kind of the same thing. Back in the 90's I actually had a book out on marketing and advertising for my industry because I got some attention booking $4000 weddings off of postcard mailers I made. But when I look back at the book, I see I knew the basics, had figured them out myself, and reaped a little success. But today I feel like I'm an encyclopedia compared to back then.
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  • Profile picture of the author JayBay
    I can't believe this thread and what I'm thinking of doing with it....cold calling..
    A year ago I would have laughed, said "yeah, right" and turned on the news.

    Now I'm being kicked out my house and make nothing anyway. So my question to anyone is what product and for what price is most reasonable to produce sales? I can handle not having a targeted list or repeated failure with my back about to hit the street corners.
    Signature

    What can I do to be more helpful to you?

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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by JayBay View Post

      I can't believe this thread and what I'm thinking of doing with it....cold calling..
      A year ago I would have laughed, said "yeah, right" and turned on the news.

      Now I'm being kicked out my house and make nothing anyway. So my question to anyone is what product and for what price is most reasonable to produce sales? I can handle not having a targeted list or repeated failure with my back about to hit the street corners.

      I remember you from a year ago Jaybay, and yes you would have laughed at it. But now it can save your life. seriously. Telemarketing is a guaranteed way to make sales... do a search in the offline forum for my free report "The great telemarketing report" and you will find what you need to pull out of this. I cant wait to hear you say you are getting sales!

      You will do this !

      Actually, here ya go:

      http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-...rting-now.html
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  • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
    Claude

    you hit me on a few notes..

    1 i wrote a white paper 18 years ago... it still stands.. i get offers to speak and get payed.

    2 i devoted my life to math and identity theft... before the meaning / words were even invented.

    before i was even 18 i had a FDIC bond of 200k

    I thought for sure... that was going to be my life.


    3 i met a man named Brad. he showed me all thoughts previous .. were f'n stupid.
    i closed my eyes, opened my ears and heart... and truly... for the first time ever

    started to learn... the rest is history...

    that might not make sense to you... but it does to me...
    and not sharing felt.. ... well.. not honest..

    so. blahhh..

    i hope you understand.
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    Selling Ain't for Sissies!
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

      Claude

      you hit me on a few notes..

      1 i wrote a white paper 18 years ago... it still stands.. i get offers to speak and get payed.

      2 i devoted my life to math and identity theft... before the meaning / words were even invented.

      before i was even 18 i had a FDIC bond of 200k

      I thought for sure... that was going to be my life.


      3 i met a man named Brad. he showed me all thoughts previous .. were f'n stupid.
      i closed my eyes, opened my ears and heart... and truly... for the first time ever

      started to learn... the rest is history...

      that might not make sense to you... but it does to me...
      and not sharing felt.. ... well.. not honest..

      so. blahhh..

      i hope you understand.
      It makes sense to me, being one who was highly privileged to hear your story. Not taken lightly, nor for granted.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

      Claude

      you hit me on a few notes..

      1 i wrote a white paper 18 years ago... it still stands.. i get offers to speak and get payed.

      2 i devoted my life to math and identity theft... before the meaning / words were even invented.

      before i was even 18 i had a FDIC bond of 200k

      I thought for sure... that was going to be my life.


      3 i met a man named Brad. he showed me all thoughts previous .. were f'n stupid.
      i closed my eyes, opened my ears and heart... and truly... for the first time ever

      started to learn... the rest is history...

      that might not make sense to you... but it does to me...
      and not sharing felt.. ... well.. not honest..

      so. blahhh..

      i hope you understand.
      Ken; Of course it makes sense to me. My life was molded by a few mentors that opened my eyes. Some intentional, some just friends. A few were authors I never met.

      Any success I have today is because a few people took the time to help me see how business works, how kindness is its own reward, and how helping other people..willing to learn...is about the best reward I could have.

      Now, back to work.
      Signature
      One Call Closing book https://www.amazon.com/One-Call-Clos...=1527788418&sr

      What if they're not stars? What if they are holes poked in the top of a container so we can breath?
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