Offline Sales Is For Wimps! - Claude Whittaker, You might Agree!

64 replies
@ Claude

One of your posts Inspired Me.

Maybe this blows you away too reading the forums, it cant just be me:

"Thousands of people are willing to go door to door in sales jobs every day selling $2000 products, just to make a $250-$300 commission, in hopes of making a coup1e of sales per day. Maybe even MILLIONS of people do this."

And on any local door to door sales team, (if anyone has been out there, they know this), there are a few guys on every team who consistently make 2-3 sales per day at 2 grand per sale on "cold calls!" And they only make $250!!

It freaks me out, seriously.

They think its a great opportunity.

Here's what freaks me out about it:

It blows me away that online marketers arent willing to do that even when they get to keep the whole 2 grand. Or they arent willing to spend two hours per day on the phone.

I mean, and you know this is absolutely the Gods honest truth.... THOUSANDS of people make their living door to door, and think they have the greatest opportunity in the world to make $5-600 bucks per day selling 2 sales per day on cold calls, at 2 grand per pop, and only making a $250 commission per sale.

And they think its GREAT!

And its just all in a days work...! They do it day in and day out...!

Hardly anyone in the internet forums believes this. Its like they think you are scamming if you make a claim, of that kind of experience, when THOUSANDS of people do it...Its not that rare... for it to be so unbelievable.

I guess thats why Im so passionate talking about this stuff, because I have been in the offline cold sales world alot... And I can see the desperate need for the new generation who has never been off the internet to see this reality.

Not to be redundant but it FREAKIN AMAZES ME, that people think making a few cold calls is hard when they make a heck of alot more than $250 like all these guys out there doing that , selling vaccum cleaners and all kinds of stuff...thinking they are the cats meow, closing 2 or 3 sales per day (An unbelievable figure to most IMr's) , for such a low percentage...and for most online marketers making enough cold calls to make 2 sales per WEEK is not worth it, even though they get keep the whole $1500 per sale...?

These door to door people selling kirbys do a sale or more per DAY on a cold call to make what an offliner could on one single sale working only 6-8 hours per week or less if they practiced.

Its just amazing.

Not trying to be judgemental, but your posts remind me of that, and reminds me of why Im out here on the internet sounding like a crazy John the Baptist or something, screaming in the wilderness.

Its unreal.

I mean, Claude, am I lying? Did you have people in your organization who closed 2 sales per day on average?

Its like nobody around here really believes that average people really do this every day...and they think making cold sales is some kind of myth or something.

You think demonstrating the value of a website to a business person who has money, and who can cut a check is alot to swallow?

Try learning all 50 aspects of a kirby vacuum cleaner that does everything but your dishes...getting into someones door, and talking your way through their whole house, even getting into their bedroom, even taking back their sheets in front of them,to demonstrate to them that they have dust mites on their own bed, doing 10 other demonstrations in the same pitch, taking apart the machine and re assembling it for every demonstration, in a two hour presentation, that sometimes takes 3, on a cold door to door call, with no appointment... Without having been invited!

AND to top it off, you are presenting something for $2500 bucks , with their husband standing there shaking his head saying he can go to walmart and get a vacuum for $100! lol

Then , after getting a "yes", having to sweat it, getting them through the whole financing thing before you can even call it a deal, while they are wishing you would hurry because their favorite TV show is coming on any minute, and you are just cringing and with white knuckles after all this work.... hoping they wont ask you to leave and come back another time before you can seal the deal...because its getting too long and you are losing their patience in the financing process... and you have to get it done before buyers remorse kicks in and changes their mind!

Faithfully staying the course straight through, from the point of knocking on their door cold, until you have pitched them for two hours, gotten them financed, signed contracts, and hopefully leave their home with a check, all in one call.

HERES THE KICKER:

Then only making $250 for all that work...and going straight to knock another ten doors and do it again.

Most internet marketers would NEVER believe that thousands of sales people do that, every single day, and close two sales per day.

Thousands of people do this Daily, and other sales jobs that are very similar, and close multiple sales daily for virtual PEANUTS in commission.

Offline sales are much easier, and the pay is much higher.

Is cold calling business owners, setting actual "appointments" for a few hours per week, making $1500 per sale really that much of a drag?

C'mon... Really? :rolleyes:
#agree #claude #offline #sales #whittaker #wimps
  • Profile picture of the author zimbizee
    True, True & True

    Excellent post, i take my hat off to those door to door salesman who do this everyday week in week out no matter what the weather. If they can sell a $2500 vacuum a couple of times a day - wouldn't you love to have them on your telesales team selling websites etc.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by zimbizee View Post

      True, True & True

      Excellent post, i take my hat off to those door to door salesman who do this everyday week in week out no matter what the weather. If they can sell a $2500 vacuum a couple of times a day - wouldn't you love to have them on your telesales team selling websites etc.
      Exactly. My point is that even a below average person can set appointments on the phone, with minimal work ethic comparatively.

      The problem with most offline sales people though, is that they think are working at maximum work ethic, just sitting on the phone two hours per WEEK, and they want to be millionaires.

      Now the "funny" thing:

      The funny thing is that a few hours per DAY of that could actually MAKE you one.
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    • Profile picture of the author jamtrading
      Originally Posted by zimbizee View Post

      True, True & True

      Excellent post, i take my hat off to those door to door salesman who do this everyday week in week out no matter what the weather. If they can sell a $2500 vacuum a couple of times a day - wouldn't you love to have them on your telesales team selling websites etc.
      those door to door sales men sure have some grit and determination, reminds me of a film i once seen about a door to door salesman staring william h macey
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  • Profile picture of the author Rearden
    John, don't put the cart before the horse, now.

    What these Offline Wannabees need to do is... deep breath...

    Close the forum down and go to work for you, Ken, or Claude.

    I was right there with most of these dudes.

    Basically, I was a "Doubting Thomas."

    But once I actually SAW success... that changed my perspective on everything.

    I saw my insurance manager close $2000+ in deals within one DAY, while making that much in commission, too.

    All on door knocks.

    The only other way I know for these Wannabes to actually take ACTION... is to be desperate, up against the wall, with no other choice than eviction and starvation, or PICK up the phone and ASK for the business.
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  • Confession Time -

    I've spent the past couple of weeks really, really working on my newest venture. At least, that's what I tell myself.

    Actually, for 3 or 4 days of each week, I've probably average 12 calls per day...wait, I've got a list right here of 70 businesses I've contacted in the past couple of weeks, so whatever that breaks down to.

    And, man, I've really, really thought I was gettin' after it.

    Well, I'm a freakin idiot, and my bank account still shows it.

    And, you know what I'm offering to small businesses in my area? Exposure & Visibility & Hope for their businesse, for pennies on the dollar.

    Their own EXCLUSIVE page on a local directory site. And, I'm giving it away at only $100 for their own page for an entire YEAR.

    So, I've got 11 or 12 businesses up there (must confess, I've given like 5 of the pages away because I've built the websites for those businesses).

    You see where I'm going with this (not the biz model, that's for another thread)?

    Whoa, nelly, I've really worked my tail off, haven't I?? Man, either emailing or phoning 70 businesses over a couple of weeks. Talk about dedication, right, how in the hell can I not have $7500 new dollars in the bank.

    Because it's all a lie!

    I'm done bullsh!tting myself into thinking I'm actually doing something. I'm not. I think that I've built it, and my lawd they will come and find me!

    Hockey Turds. I've got to go get them.

    And, that's what I'm going to do. Starting today....YES, SATURDAY.

    Thanks for your time...over and out.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
    Yup, John...calling is just too scary for most people.

    The economics of it may make total sense to them, but their stomachs are still twirling like a clothes dryer.

    It is amusing how, as you point out, they go through a whole lot more work learning all the ins and outs of the vacuum cleaner when they could easily master why someone would want a website...and make much more money for themselves.

    Maybe it's the security blanket thing...I have a company to work for, a recognized company name...and for that bit of self-perceived moral authority, I'll give up 75% of my commission...

    Selling those vacuum cleaners sure does sound like a lot of white-knuckled work. Yet some of these guys develop a skill--a skill like any other, which took time to develop--to sell. You can spend your time doing that. Or you can spend your time developing a skill where you keep much more of the sales dollars for your self.
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  • Profile picture of the author swilliams09
    My exs uncle is a Kirby salesman. He's a drunk, a womanizer and can barely keep. A roof over his head but he can sell about 7-8 kirbys a week. The guy exudes charisma and charm when he's on. I'm kinda socially awkward, I only have that sort of charm around people I know and are comfortable with. But the op is right millions of people do it everyday. I cold called RV insurance to seniors for 8 hours a day for 7 bucks an hour in a room full of people. Some who barely spoke English. It was just a job. If I can do that for barely a pay check why can't I for that for myself?

    Btw, I've had my Kirby for 12 years. Still going strong.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mwind076
    Originally Posted by John Durham View Post


    Is cold calling business owners, setting actual "appointments" for a few hours per week, making $1500 per sale really that much of a drag?

    C'mon... Really? :rolleyes:
    I'm just going to put a big "AGREE" stamp on your whole post, but that quote made me happy.

    The answer is NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's not a drag! I love my business!

    I'd much rather be in my office (or on my couch) reaching out to as many people as I can, getting them to agree to meet for an appointment (with my client). Pounding the pavement, even though it works, doesn't sound fun or as lucrative.

    It's especially easy when you stick with it and know what you're doing. When you can look at a list and pull out the number that's going to get you that sale/appointment...it's a huge ego boost
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    • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
      A lot of people fall in love with the IDEA of having their own business, they don't love the REALITY of it.
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      • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
        Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

        A lot of people fall in love with the IDEA of having their own business, they don't love the REALITY of it.
        and to expand on my one liner right there... This isn't just about cold calling John...

        People don't cold call cuz they're scared, think its invasive, doesn't work well, blah blah blah. People don't do door to door because they feel uncomfortable. People don't do direct mail because they think its complicated and will be thrown in the trash. People don't advertise on classified sites because it's too difficult to be seen. People don't do email marketing because 85% of the emails never get delivered.

        We both know cold calling works.. I know that almost every marketing technique I use, will work.

        People are lazy, unmotivated, losers. It's not about convincing them that cold calling or any other strategy will work... the hard part is convincing people to stop reading and start doing.
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        • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
          Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

          and to expand on my one liner right there... This isn't just about cold calling John...

          People don't cold call cuz they're scared, think its invasive, doesn't work well, blah blah blah. People don't do door to door because they feel uncomfortable. People don't do direct mail because they think its complicated and will be thrown in the trash. People don't advertise on classified sites because it's too difficult to be seen. People don't do email marketing because 85% of the emails never get delivered.

          We both know cold calling works.. I know that almost every marketing technique I use, will work.

          People are lazy, unmotivated, losers. It's not about convincing them that cold calling or any other strategy will work... the hard part is convincing people to stop reading and start doing.

          I am not sure what creates " the drive " in some, and not others.

          I do know when you have the drive, it is some thing so strong
          inside of you pushing and shoving trying to get out.

          Its so strong that the words , burning passion, doesn't even begin to describe
          it.

          I also know, the people with it, are a little *ucked in the head.

          We don't know the word failure, even though we have all failed more then most
          We don't know the word "give up"
          We don't know how to live our lives with looking around future corners.
          We never stop thinking, breathing and living our venture.
          We never go more then 5 minutes without some new idea that
          we want to tie into our existing business.

          To be any other way just seams ridiculous.

          I don't know that to NOT have that desire is necessarily "lazy"

          TBH some times i wish i could be "lazy" at least for small stretches.
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          • good post.

            consider the irony of technology.


            offline is going door 2 door
            online is using the phone

            change your viewpoint (drop the TM stereotype)

            change your life
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          • Profile picture of the author John Durham
            Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

            I am not sure what creates " the drive " in some, and not others.
            What created it for me was telemarketing room giving me a job.... And a little baby girl at home who needed to eat. I couldnt quit, had to stick it out...and the only way to make "extra" money, was to get good and make commission.

            Originally Posted by SJJPFTW View Post


            If we only closed 1-2 sales a day we would not have a job next week, and your right these were $1000-$2000 sales where we would pocket maybe 7-15%% depending on up sells etc and we thought that was brilliant!! LOL
            When I got an epiphany a couple of years ago or so about preaching telemarketing at the warrior forum, it was precisely because of that. I saw all these people just falling over themselves trying to figure out how to get a sales, and I thought "What?"...

            In the JOB world, you can barely even hold your job without getting fired if you dont make 2 sales per day...They will let you go for "below average production"...Yet here were all these people acting like getting a sale was some magical, mystical thing...

            I was really amazed, because many of the people in call centers are below average performers in LIFE in general, thats why they dont make 20 dollars per hour in some factory,...

            Yet I saw all these stuffy professional "consultants" in the offline world who had alot of great language that made them seem really smart, yet hardly any of them could get a sales.

            I saw an opportunity to teach them what "average" non stuffy people do all day long, who arent necessarily all that smart by comparison....and dont fancy themselves to be "Sales Gurus"...by any stretch of the imagination.

            I saw people on the WF being celebrated like rock stars who could make a sale here and there... and I knew that I had people in my telemarketing room who could do it 5 times per day half asleep with a hangover....LOL

            50 of them at a time, day in day out of all shapes and sizes, and not one of them was a guru.
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            • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
              Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

              What created it for me was telemarketing room giving me a job.... And a little baby girl at home who needed to eat. I couldnt quit, had to stick it out...and the only way to make "extra" money, was to get good and make commission.

              I disagree...maybe ...sorta... o i dunno

              Your analogy suggests... when you get to " that " point.. it happens.

              I have seen many people ready to lose everything... and do nothing...

              I suggest, your one of that small % that have "it"... probably even born with "it".

              It may have taken a specific incident to flip your switch, but you had it all along.
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              • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
                Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

                I have seen many people ready to lose everything... and do nothing...
                This is something that bothers me, because I've seen it too and I want to help people that I feel are in a similar situation that I was. It amazes me that people aren't willing to do anything to help themselves.

                I was told before that entrepreneurs that start their own businesses out of necessity instead of willingness, don't perform as well. I think that is maybe true in a way, even though I feel that I needed something so bad it made me WILLING.

                There are many ways to achieve success, and many different definitions of success. No form of success comes by doing nothing.
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              • Profile picture of the author John Durham
                [DELETED]
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                • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
                  Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

                  Well I sucked at it for a month Ken...It wasnt really the job that made me good, it was some guy laughing at me when I told him I was going to take his telemarketer of the month crown.... Something CLICKED, and I went back i9n and started kicking butt and never looked back. I was telemarketer of the month for 9 months straight after that....and DOUBLED his highest month.

                  But still... I have to say, that not everyone was like me...doing phenomenal numbers...But even the LOW PERFORMERS numbers were higher than most peoples number in the offline marketing world.
                  when i said "it" ... i wasn't talking about ability.

                  I was referring to " the drive "

                  that thing inside you that says.. failure is not an option... i will rule this

                  you know what i am talking about.. that little voice inside of you
                  that keeps you awake at night, thinking of all the angles, all the possibilities ..

                  Then creating that plan of attack.. even if you don't realize what it is yet.

                  Answer me this.

                  How many times have you woke up... and got pissed off because you realized
                  you were dreaming... when in your dream you were working... and creating solutions...

                  and then you woke up.. and realized... you were just dreaming...
                  of the solution to your immedient issue ?
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                  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
                    Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post


                    you know what i am talking about.. that little voice inside of you
                    that keeps you awake at night, thinking of all the angles, all the possibilities ..
                    I do know that voice. On another note I have come to believe its that same voice , when on the phone that causes failure for alot of people.

                    They dont lock themselves into their call session and focus, because while they are calling a little voice keeps telling them that there must be a different way... and so they dont lock themselves into it, and they give up and go chase another bell or whistle.
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                    • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
                      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

                      I do know that voice. On another note I have come to believe its that same voice , when on the phone that causes failure for alot of people.

                      They dont lock themselves into their call session and focus, because while they are calling a little voice keeps telling them that there must be a different way... and so they dont lock themselves into it, and they give up and go chase another bell or whistle.

                      you might be right, you probably are.

                      but i am thinking it may be some thing more basic than that.

                      such as .. no real belief in them selves.

                      the death of any aspiration, is no true belief.
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                      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
                        Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

                        you might be right, you probably are.

                        but i am thinking it may be some thing more basic than that.

                        such as .. no real belief in them selves.

                        the death of any aspiration, is no true belief.
                        Indeed. Which is why it works better in a telemarketing room alot of times, because you can see others doing it and build your faith...However we have tried to create a bunch of those stories here at the WF too... yet in spite of that some still cant turn off the bells and whistles voice.

                        Thats exactly right Ken, and thats why Im here to tell you that if half drunk people with hangovers can do it for 10 bucks per hour all day long... and homeless people can come in and get a paycheck and turn their life around having apartments tqw2o months later... The SURELY YOU CAN TOO!

                        You got it. We are preaching FAITH, from a different angle howbeit!

                        As a person who gives speeches to a call center every single day, Im sure that you , like myself have preached it from every angle possible, but yes thats what it is - BELIEF.

                        When you believe you can do somethi9ng you do it...when you dont, then you fall prey to the traps of the mind.

                        I agree with Iamnameless too, that it can apply to email, or whatever you endeavor to master.
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        • Profile picture of the author ARealBiz
          Classic! I agree with you 100%


          Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

          and to expand on my one liner right there... This isn't just about cold calling John...

          People don't cold call cuz they're scared, think its invasive, doesn't work well, blah blah blah. People don't do door to door because they feel uncomfortable. People don't do direct mail because they think its complicated and will be thrown in the trash. People don't advertise on classified sites because it's too difficult to be seen. People don't do email marketing because 85% of the emails never get delivered.

          We both know cold calling works.. I know that almost every marketing technique I use, will work.

          People are lazy, unmotivated, losers. It's not about convincing them that cold calling or any other strategy will work... the hard part is convincing people to stop reading and start doing.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
    One of my members and I were talking about this problem with "offliners" just yesterday and he summed it all up in one word.

    Lazy

    That's it!

    I was preaching going out and getting it before the likes of John, Ken, and Jason came around and it appears many still don't get it because John and them took the flag and ran much further with it then I EVER had the desire too.
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  • Profile picture of the author digichik
    Amen to that.
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  • Profile picture of the author SJJPFTW
    I could not agree more John and Iamnameless. Going back 10 years I used to work for other people (yuck) and I did appointment setting, door to door knocking for business and resi, and just plain old cold call make the sale type gigs.

    If we only closed 1-2 sales a day we would not have a job next week, and your right these were $1000-$2000 sales where we would pocket maybe 7-15%% depending on up sells etc and we thought that was brilliant!! LOL

    I see so many people on here seriously saying it is hard to make a living direct selling, but I think a lot of people are just afraid to knock on that door or pick up the phone. It frustrates me when people write about how they dialled 50 numbers that week and did not make a sale. Of course you didn't! Even going by the rule of 10 (10 calls leads to 1 prospect and out of 10 prospects you will make 1 sale) you only dialled enough numbers to make 1/2 a sale!

    I will tell you who I find the most motivated telemarketers (feel free to hate me for this, because a lot of people do), my team in the Philippines.

    I don't run a massive call room like some of the big names on here do, but I have 5 guys in the Philippines (soon to be 10) sitting on the phone all day. I pay them less than $7 per hour and they get a whopping $50 per closed sale. Coming from a country where the average per capita income is well below $2500 a month they are VERY motivated by that and I am sure I have made some people over there pretty well off. To attract the same calibre of performance here in Oz I would have to pay $25-$30 per hour plus at least $200 sale and I still do not think they would be as good.

    I still actually ENJOY picking up the phone and setting my own appointments and sometimes I actually play a game where I will try and sell something I would normally do via appointment just via the phone to prove I still 'got it'.

    IMHO if you are scared of meetings or telephones you are in the wrong game. We are MARKETERS! If we can not sell our own products how are me meant to help other people sell theirs!

    </rant> lol
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    • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
      Originally Posted by SJJPFTW View Post

      If we can not sell our own products how are me meant to help other people sell theirs!
      Everyone is going to think they understand that...

      but the truth is... only a few really will.

      and even less will try to change or bother to try
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  • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
    ? the Kirby example is just one angle, and although for those guys it may be how it works, but on the twist side many of those guys are not pro's doing that work as many are just putting bums on seats, punching virtual time clocks.

    It is very possible to make a days wages on doors in a few hours or so and this can be more in a day and can / is often more than not and a months wages within a week, and no we are not talking small 2.5k sales to make that money.

    I am sure new callers also do not make the $ you speak of and like anything the more people dedicate to the craft the better they get so just like callers, there are the knockers who also command the dollars and in many ways it is a bit like on line where one method of making $ does not suit all types.

    Different strokes different blokes but there are those top end in both sides and both do very well as you suggest.
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  • Profile picture of the author socialbacklink
    This sort of thing used to get to me but I've seen it for too many years. It's just sad how many people look for a silver bullet or easy button that they push and bam they are rich. It doesn't work that way. What did it for me was back in around 03 when I got into PPC. I was laid off from my job again because we were getting cutbacks everywhere. I had a new house, wife, and 2 babies. They had to eat.

    So, I had been hearing about this adwords thing. Within a month I was pulling down $5k per month profit doing adwords and never looked back.

    But, when you see people with their back against the wall and they crumble. That's just not a good sign. There is literally money everywhere. If you put in the effort you can make money hand over fist. People just aren't disciplined enough to put the work in. It's easy to say you want it. It's different when it's time to show it.

    There are two types of people to me. Ones who can work for themselves and ones who just need to go collect a paycheck. I've had to fire several people because they just weren't disciplined enough to work from home. It's not something everyone can do.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    @ Ken,,

    Im so ticked right now because I lost this web page where this kid was teaching guitar players to sweep pick arpeggios, and he gave the most motivational speech I ever heard first that touches on EXACTLY what you are talking about... I gotta find it and post it here. He was brilliant. I got more than I bargained for on that one.

    BRB, I wont come back till I find it.
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    • Dennis Miller once described the world with 2 kinds of people in it.

      strivers and non-strivers
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      • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
        Originally Posted by kirbymarketingconcierge View Post

        Dennis Miller once described the world with 2 kinds of people in it.

        strivers and non-strivers
        hey bud, are how are you healing ?

        good i hope.
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        • Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

          hey bud, are how are you healing ?

          good i hope.
          slow to heal. sports injuries, getting better.

          thanks for asking.
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Wow! What a thread! First, I'm honored that my name was mentioned alongside a few greats here. I'm not joking, it means alot to me.

        John, you are right about Kirby guys getting $250 a sale, and working hard. I can only tell you my experience and maybe a theory or two.

        I first started out selling Kirby's as a rep, not a distributor. Maybe the year was 1976. I worked for 9 months at $110 a sale. We sold the machine for $549. I made enough sales to net $17,000 in 9 months. A respectable income then. And the first 2 months I worked, I didn't make a single sale. I didn't mention my Kirby days in a different thread, because I did it for such a short time.

        But....while I worked at the Kirby office, I was told what to do. I had a job. I had duties. I had people counting on me in the workplace. They gave me places to go. I couldn't choose to be lazy.

        After that I was always either working on my own, or the owner of the business. And here is the problem.

        As the owner, I had employees. I had to tell them what to do, and my activity got carried along with them. I was forced to show up, work hard, manage the business, and everything owning a business means. So it was great.

        But when I worked on my own....I didn't have anyone telling me when to start work. Nobody told me to make calls. I wasn't accountable to anyone but myself and my family. And so, for short spurts, I worked hard enough to make my ("Goal" isn't the right word. Maybe "Scheduled income")

        So, maybe the offline marketers here just don't have anyone forcing them to work. For most, it's a lot less stressfull talking about prospecting, than actual prospecting. Believe me, I know the feeling.

        I've actually hired an assistant twice in my life..for the sole purpose of forcing me to work. I told my wife I was training a new person, and I was. But if someone shows up to meet you at your office, you can't go watch a movie. You have to work. You have to show them sales.

        Anyway, it's a theory.

        I'll say this I know what it takes to be a top salesperson. Anyone who can overcome a lifetime of cultural conditioning and inertia to sell something....anything......for several years...has my respect. Being self employed in a self created selling position, has my respect. Selling is counter-intuitive. Like Kung Fu. And the only other profession that is like it is perhaps being a stand up comic. There are lots of parallells.

        My name was in a John Durham thread title! I feel like a giggly little girl.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rearden
    Guys...

    A loser is a loser...

    And...

    You can't fix stupid.
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    • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
      Originally Posted by Rearden View Post

      Guys...

      A loser is a loser...

      And...

      You can't fix stupid.
      true..

      but uhmm where did that come from ?
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  • Profile picture of the author Rearden
    Well. Some people just don't fight back despite their circumstances.

    As you said. Some people just have "it." Most don't. Regardless of the circumstance.
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    • Word Origin & History

      loser

      "a destroyer," mid-14c., from lose (q.v.). Sense of "one who suffers loss" is from 1540s; meaning "horse that loses a race" is from 1902; "convicted criminal" is from 1912; "hapless person" is 1955 student slang.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by Rearden View Post

      Well. Some people just don't fight back despite their circumstances.

      As you said. Some people just have "it." Most don't. Regardless of the circumstance.

      And frankly, while that is true, some people hold other people down by spreading that belief and building their own egos... That was rampant when we first starting pushing this messgae, beginning with Rus as he says...

      I have taught average people who dont have ANYTHING to do it. But as Ken says, the first thing they have to do is believe its possible, which is why we continue to post threads like this.
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    • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
      Originally Posted by Rearden View Post

      Well. Some people just don't fight back despite their circumstances.

      As you said. Some people just have "it." Most don't. Regardless of the circumstance.

      O I C...

      Now i get it.. i am not sure how i missed it in the first place..
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    CLUUUUUUUUUUUUADE! You made it!

    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post


    But when I worked on my own....I didn't have anyone telling me when to start work. Nobody told me to make calls. I wasn't accountable to anyone but myself and my family. And so, for short spurts, I worked hard enough to make my ("Goal" isn't the right word. Maybe "Scheduled income")

    So, maybe the offline marketers here just don't have anyone forcing them to work.
    I know with all of my "knower", that this is the main issue.

    Thats why I always say and so does Ken, that if you cant train yourself to sell, then go get a sales job, they will train you like boot camp.

    Its easier to give up with no one looking over your shoulder, but when you see that you can do it by having someone look over your shoulder, then you have faith...and you will know for the rest of your life that if you dont do it for yourself , it certainly isnt because it cant be done.

    Thats a big empowerment, but its also a big responsibility.
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    • hard lesson to learn.

      there are 2 people that will tell you what to do.

      You or somebody else.
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    • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

      I feel like a giggly little girl.
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      CLUUUUUUUUUUUUADE! You made it!
      Giggity, giggity
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

        Giggity, giggity
        Here it is Ken...This guy gives a KILLEr motivational talk that will inspire anyone...even non guitarists.

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        • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
          Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

          Here it is Ken...This guy gives a KILLEr motivational talk that will inspire anyone...even non guitarists.

          Guitar Technique - How To Play Fast Using Legato - YouTube

          kewl, BBI in 22 min or so
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        • Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

          Here it is Ken...This guy gives a KILLEr motivational talk that will inspire anyone...even non guitarists.
          I like what he said about enthusiasm and selling yourself. It's important to keep going KNOWING you will get knocked down, or have periods of no growth--what Tom Hopkins calls "the maintenance of a positive attitude with the expectation of a negative result."
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    The first 9 minutes are all Im referring to really.

    Right at 8 minutes he says a HUGE key.
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    • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      The first 9 minutes are all Im referring to really.

      Right at 8 minutes he says a HUGE key.
      That needs to be transcribed ...

      bad assed.. well to me.. but then again i am a guitar player.

      little things like that make my day.

      thank you
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Ken I hated doing it, but its such an issue of its own that I gave it its own thread. Sorry man... http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-...offliners.html

    I do that alot.

    I really feel this kid was talking some heavy stuff man...!
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    • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      Ken I hated doing it, but its such an issue of its own that I gave it its own thread. Sorry man... http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-...offliners.html

      I do that alot.

      I really feel this kid was talking some heavy stuff man...!
      and i 100% agree ...
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  • Profile picture of the author cash89
    I always think back to the movie boiler room, of course it's only a movie, but thats the way many firms were built before the days of online trading. If it was possible to get someone to invest $10,000 in a "hot stock", how could it be so hard to sell a business a website?

    When i'm doing my sales I always say to myself, "There are people out there right now making way hard sales than me" and it's true!
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by cash89 View Post

      I always think back to the movie boiler room, of course it's only a movie, but thats the way many firms were built before the days of online trading. If it was possible to get someone to invest $10,000 in a "hot stock", how could it be so hard to sell a business a website?

      When i'm doing my sales I always say to myself, "There are people out there right now making way hard sales than me" and it's true!
      I have a friend who works for an investment banking firm and makes ALOT of money, still doing it the offline way... Not so ironically, he went straight from a telemarketing booth making an hourly wage to that job. They hired him because of his telemarketing track record and gave him a 75k per year salary which he has grown tremendously over the years. The first thing they gave him at the firm when he sat down at his new desk, was a list of 100 millionaires to cold call. Boiler room makes it look like a scam but alot of that industry is legit.
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  • Profile picture of the author Huskerdarren
    I am shutting down my Ebay business and going to work full time until I can get something going with offline. I had an interview today. The job was cold calling to establish new accounts selling products to grocery stores and restaurants. The base pay was $32,000.
    I asked the sales manager about commission potential and he said I could make another 4 to 6 thousand a year for a whopping $38,000 total compensation. I'm going to make hundreds of calls a week for that paltry sum plus a lot of unnecessary stress?

    I think if I make 500+ calls a week for myself selling websites and only close 1%, I'm going to make $75,000 to $100,000 annual income. Wow John, your post is eye opening. Why would I do for someone else's bottom line and not be willing to do it myself? Oh, and two weeks vacation is exciting (not).
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  • Profile picture of the author Dbucsko111
    Hi All. I'm new to this forum. I look forward to chatting about online marketing and what-not and getting to know all of you. Feel free to reach me at my address in my signature.
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  • Profile picture of the author mark healy
    thanks for your post very insightful
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  • Profile picture of the author Nspire
    Valuable lessons to be learned in this thread.

    Thanks to John and the rest for your contribution.

    I keep telling people that are out of work why find a job, start a business. Set yourself some goals to keep yourself motivated. If that does not work get a business coach. As someone as already mentioned fear and limiting beliefs are big factors in why some of us stay stuck.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by Nspire View Post

      Valuable lessons to be learned in this thread.

      Thanks to John....
      You are quite welcome, i have done 3 speeches per day in large telemarketing rooms for years, helping TM's realize how hardcore and valuable they are, or can be...

      Havent dont it as much in the last few, but the WF helps me keep up my chops!
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      • That post really striked me how easy is to make money.
        I did sales from about 10 years , in IM about 5 years (as a hobby ) .
        Why bother with SEO , gaming google , bing , writing articles , guest blogging buying all that WSOs if you can just grab the phone and call businesses 6 hours every day ?
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        • Profile picture of the author maxrezn
          Originally Posted by smallbusinesstoolkit View Post

          That post really striked me how easy is to make money.
          I did sales from about 10 years , in IM about 5 years (as a hobby ) .
          Why bother with SEO , gaming google , bing , writing articles , guest blogging buying all that WSOs if you can just grab the phone and call businesses 6 hours every day ?
          Seriously?

          Would you rather spend 6 hours in your office Monday-Friday answering phone calls from people that found you and closing them...or spend 6 hours prospecting?

          It makes life a lot more enjoyable when you have inbound leads.

          However, I prefer a bit of both. SEO, video marketing, CL posting to drive inbound leads....and cold calling to set appointments with local businesses.
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          • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
            Originally Posted by maxrezn View Post

            Seriously?

            Would you rather spend 6 hours in your office Monday-Friday answering phone calls from people that found you and closing them...or spend 6 hours prospecting?

            It makes life a lot more enjoyable when you have inbound leads.

            However, I prefer a bit of both. SEO, video marketing, CL posting to drive inbound leads....and cold calling to set appointments with local businesses.
            Here's the thing... cold calling is something you are doing to get leads, and to close deals. It isn't depending on someone to go searching Craigslist, looking for the service you're offering, and hoping they call you.. Video marketing, is great when done right but the goal is still driving traffic to a video that converts. I know video is hot right now when it comes to prospecting but it is less effective than normal SEO. SEO, you're limited by the amount of keywords you have, and the amount of searches it generates.

            You have to do it all, but the guy has a point. SEO is not long term, CL is decreasing. You guys are just getting on the CL train, but believe me, the trend is falling. Internet marketers are pushing Craigslist products now, it is becoming over saturated and less effective. This isn't opinion, the amount of service based ads have increased, while overall traffic on craigslist has decreased. Now if your competition increases but your potential customers are decreasing, that is a declining marketing technique. It is fine for now, but it is not the future.

            SEO, you're always one Google update away from not being found. You're always at the mercy of your competitors, hoping they don't rank ahead of you.

            Incoming leads are great, but you will never have enough incoming leads. Never!

            Cold calling, your destiny, your success and your failures are in your own hands. You don't ever need to depend on circumstances outside of your control ever again like you do with incoming leads. You can hope people will call you, and wait around for people to call, but I'd rather be proactive and calling and creating my own leads, and close on the spot. Incoming, or outgoing, it is still a potential sale every time there is a voice on the other end of the phone.
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          • Originally Posted by maxrezn View Post

            Seriously?

            Would you rather spend 6 hours in your office Monday-Friday answering phone calls from people that found you and closing them...or spend 6 hours prospecting?

            It makes life a lot more enjoyable when you have inbound leads.

            However, I prefer a bit of both. SEO, video marketing, CL posting to drive inbound leads....and cold calling to set appointments with local businesses.

            This is how you WISH to be , not reality.
            In real life even if you have very well optimized website and lots of leads you still have to wait and hope that someone will call or email you.
            And then about 40% of people will start moaning that they can get that cheaper somewhere else or their cousin/brother in law will do that for half of your price.
            Then you will have Mr Negotiator/Mr Smart/CEO Wannabe who wants negotiate everything even service cost only $20 .
            You do not really have control over the process of acuaring customers.
            It`s like giving someone place on drivers seat in your car.

            If you cold calling you just need to say "thank you for yur time" and think "next!" and you will eventually get sale to good customers.
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            • Profile picture of the author maxrezn
              Originally Posted by smallbusinesstoolkit View Post

              This is how you WISH to be , not reality.
              In real life even if you have very well optimized website and lots of leads you still have to wait and hope that someone will call or email you.
              And then about 40% of people will start moaning that they can get that cheaper somewhere else or their cousin/brother in law will do that for half of your price.
              Then you will have Mr Negotiator/Mr Smart/CEO Wannabe who wants negotiate everything even service cost only $20 .
              You do not really have control over the process of acuaring customers.
              It`s like giving someone place on drivers seat in your car.

              If you cold calling you just need to say "thank you for yur time" and think "next!" and you will eventually get sale to good customers.
              Today I learned I do not live in reality. :rolleyes:
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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            Originally Posted by maxrezn View Post

            Seriously?

            Would you rather spend 6 hours in your office Monday-Friday answering phone calls from people that found you and closing them...or spend 6 hours prospecting?

            It makes life a lot more enjoyable when you have inbound leads.

            However, I prefer a bit of both. SEO, video marketing, CL posting to drive inbound leads....and cold calling to set appointments with local businesses.
            Inbound leads are great. They are the cream, the low hanging fruit. But they have to be produced. And that production is the big difference between using incoming leads and cold calling. And producing incoming leads is a harder skill to learn that cold calling. I know you already know that.

            So for the vast majority of us, the real comparison is;

            Would you rather spend 6 hours in your office Monday-Friday waiting for phone calls from people that found you and closing them...or spend 6 hours prospecting?

            And so, for the vast majority of us...yes, actively prospecting is more productive. Is it more fun? Not to me, but it is more profitable.

            The difference is all that had to be done before answering the phone.

            And, I'll agree (bullet proof vest on) that if you make it profitable, and are able to set up all the inbound lead magnets.....answering the phone is better than calling, if only for the fact that you cannot put off answering the phone. But you can put off calling.

            There. Can we all hug again?
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  • Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

    @ Claude

    One of your posts Inspired Me.

    Maybe this blows you away too reading the forums, it cant just be me:

    "Thousands of people are willing to go door to door in sales jobs every day selling $2000 products, just to make a $250-$300 commission, in hopes of making a coup1e of sales per day. Maybe even MILLIONS of people do this."

    And on any local door to door sales team, (if anyone has been out there, they know this), there are a few guys on every team who consistently make 2-3 sales per day at 2 grand per sale on "cold calls!" And they only make $250!!

    It freaks me out, seriously.

    They think its a great opportunity.

    Here's what freaks me out about it:

    It blows me away that online marketers arent willing to do that even when they get to keep the whole 2 grand. Or they arent willing to spend two hours per day on the phone.

    I mean, and you know this is absolutely the Gods honest truth.... THOUSANDS of people make their living door to door, and think they have the greatest opportunity in the world to make $5-600 bucks per day selling 2 sales per day on cold calls, at 2 grand per pop, and only making a $250 commission per sale.

    And they think its GREAT!

    And its just all in a days work...! They do it day in and day out...!

    Hardly anyone in the internet forums believes this. Its like they think you are scamming if you make a claim, of that kind of experience, when THOUSANDS of people do it...Its not that rare... for it to be so unbelievable.

    I guess thats why Im so passionate talking about this stuff, because I have been in the offline cold sales world alot... And I can see the desperate need for the new generation who has never been off the internet to see this reality.

    Not to be redundant but it FREAKIN AMAZES ME, that people think making a few cold calls is hard when they make a heck of alot more than $250 like all these guys out there doing that , selling vaccum cleaners and all kinds of stuff...thinking they are the cats meow, closing 2 or 3 sales per day (An unbelievable figure to most IMr's) , for such a low percentage...and for most online marketers making enough cold calls to make 2 sales per WEEK is not worth it, even though they get keep the whole $1500 per sale...?

    These door to door people selling kirbys do a sale or more per DAY on a cold call to make what an offliner could on one single sale working only 6-8 hours per week or less if they practiced.

    Its just amazing.

    Not trying to be judgemental, but your posts remind me of that, and reminds me of why Im out here on the internet sounding like a crazy John the Baptist or something, screaming in the wilderness.

    Its unreal.

    I mean, Claude, am I lying? Did you have people in your organization who closed 2 sales per day on average?

    Its like nobody around here really believes that average people really do this every day...and they think making cold sales is some kind of myth or something.

    You think demonstrating the value of a website to a business person who has money, and who can cut a check is alot to swallow?

    Try learning all 50 aspects of a kirby vacuum cleaner that does everything but your dishes...getting into someones door, and talking your way through their whole house, even getting into their bedroom, even taking back their sheets in front of them,to demonstrate to them that they have dust mites on their own bed, doing 10 other demonstrations in the same pitch, taking apart the machine and re assembling it for every demonstration, in a two hour presentation, that sometimes takes 3, on a cold door to door call, with no appointment... Without having been invited!

    AND to top it off, you are presenting something for $2500 bucks , with their husband standing there shaking his head saying he can go to walmart and get a vacuum for $100! lol

    Then , after getting a "yes", having to sweat it, getting them through the whole financing thing before you can even call it a deal, while they are wishing you would hurry because their favorite TV show is coming on any minute, and you are just cringing and with white knuckles after all this work.... hoping they wont ask you to leave and come back another time before you can seal the deal...because its getting too long and you are losing their patience in the financing process... and you have to get it done before buyers remorse kicks in and changes their mind!

    Faithfully staying the course straight through, from the point of knocking on their door cold, until you have pitched them for two hours, gotten them financed, signed contracts, and hopefully leave their home with a check, all in one call.

    HERES THE KICKER:

    Then only making $250 for all that work...and going straight to knock another ten doors and do it again.

    Most internet marketers would NEVER believe that thousands of sales people do that, every single day, and close two sales per day.

    Thousands of people do this Daily, and other sales jobs that are very similar, and close multiple sales daily for virtual PEANUTS in commission.

    Offline sales are much easier, and the pay is much higher.

    Is cold calling business owners, setting actual "appointments" for a few hours per week, making $1500 per sale really that much of a drag?

    C'mon... Really? :rolleyes:

    Hey man don`t say it too loudly , I don`t want too many people to know that :p
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  • Profile picture of the author NewParadigm
    The best way to get started if you are hesitant is intentionally fail. Burn some random leads to intentionally fail. That way you have no expectations or pressure and you'll find out it really isn't that scary to talk to PEOPLE
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  • Profile picture of the author Mwind076
    I don't want to be in one big man hug...I'll just watch. (That sounds worse)
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