Prospecting Expectations Management- What Numbers Should I Expect?

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I saw a guy in another thread saying he made 500 calls and got nothing and he needed advice because telemarketing doesnt work!

He got a ton of advice ranging from "You need to set a funneling system and dont expect to make profit the first year" (along with a bunch of very general statistical data quotes and college text book theory)

To

"You need to start a TV program and set yourself up as an authority and it takes 11 times for someone to buy"

To

"You need to not expect to get a prospect for 90 days and do a massive ad campaign...".

To

"You need to write a 100 page book, that leads to another 100 page book that leads to qualified prospects"

...all kinds of stuff.

Okay here's JD comin along... and I have to tell you- all that is a bunch of BULL$***

Sure it works (some of it), 90 days from now if you are dedicated, or a year out...

BUT:

Can you really listen to some real world truth for just a second?


If so, then Im not wasting my time here. Im not bashing those other ideas...Im telling you a truth that you can see all around you for yourself. You would honestly have to be BLIND not to see it.

First of all.

If the guy made 500 calls and didnt come up with a single lead, then something is wrong (maybe NOT severely) with his approach... Then on the other hand, it does happen very rarely that a person will make 500 calls and get nothing. Lets deal with that.

Needing to tweak your approach is what we call "the first day of training" in the real world; its not an insurmountable mountain.

(Someone said "I once tried to play the piano, and it didnt work! :rolleyes:" lol)

Now , about making 500 calls and getting nothing... Thats not going to happen to most people but WILL to some. Again; it's called "Your first day". That simple.

Secondly:

You have to think of it this way- Some pro telemarketers in actual offline call centers dont get leads their first day either... sometimes its three days before they start popping consistent results.... and then a few weeks later they are doing 8-10 per day just like all the other 60 people in the room are doing.

Pause and think about that for a second....

Now

Think about this:

Each of those telemarketers make a minimum of 500 dials per DAY

Now go back and think about this again...

That once new guy couldnt get a lead his first day, and now he is steadily writing 8-10 per day just like everyone else -EVERY DAY!

If you thought about that like I asked, and you are willing to accept some reality, then right about now you are getting it!

MOST people in a call center DO write a couple of leads their first day....but for some guys it takes 3 days of training to get them in their groove, then they are doing it like clock work from then out....With all the months of trying you have done, how much would it be worth to you to become a person who could write 8-10 leads per day?

Is it worth as much dedication as an 8 dollar per hour employee puts into his first three days on the job?


It had BETTER be, if you think you want to own your own business and make six figures per year!

To close this point...

So far the O.P. of that thread, in MONTHS, hasnt even done as much calling as that trainee does on his very first day, yet he feels he made an EXTREME effort...enough effort to say, with CERTAINTY, that it doesnt work.

So this makes perfect sense to me.

It really isnt a mystery at all.

"John are you saying that 500 dials isnt an EXTREME effort?"

Im not saying ANYTHING, Im just giving you awareness of the facts that you can see all around you, and you ask your SELF if 500 dials is an extreme effort or not:.

Here are the facts

1: 5 million AVERAGE people in the united states have fulltime jobs employed as telemarketers
2: They each make five hundred calls their first day on the job
3: Most appointments setters have a MINIMUM QUOTA of at least 6-8 appointments per day
4: Some of them dont get a lead their first day, but weeks later they are up to par just like everyone else hitting quota day in and day out...

Now, I ask you to tell ME, do you think 500 dials in months of time are really that extreme?

To an hourly employee, one of the over 5 million in the United States alone, thats just the first day of training.

Dont need a college degree to figure that out!

So, yes, you have to be able to spot exaggeration, and you have to be able to read through the college text book theory, and you have to be able to recognize and deal with reality... I just gave it to you. I didnt quote any books or college professors.... Thats just how it is.

If you want to take ten years to funnel people go for it. Most tms are keeping up quota within their first week though. Im just tellin you like it is.

No exaggeration at all....with five million USA examples to prove it who do this 40 hours per week...If you want to be a millionaire, first you have to at least be as strong as an average hourly person.

You may not like me...but Im tellin you the truth.

-JD

Ps. What should you expect?

You should expect that if you can even write TWO appointments per day and only close TWO out of TEN of them (ultra realistic) ...You will make more than 6 figures probably. Maybe ALOT more!

This should take you altogether about 3 to 3 and a half hours per day to accomplish, averaged over the week... including the time spent running the actual appointment, if you dont do "phone appointments".

You should see sales within a week, to two weeks max...some people do their FIRST DAY.

Is it worth it? I dont know- Is it?

Thats a personal decision, and this is an example of proper, accurate, real life numbers, to help you establish a formula for sound "Expectations Management".
#expect #expectaqtions #management #numbers #prospecting
  • Profile picture of the author ownergolan
    Lol, i just read the other thread and thought in the back of my head " what would John say? " .

    Needless to say that this is gold, and i hope the OP would see this.
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  • Profile picture of the author massiveray
    Wait, so cold calling can generate business????? OH MY!
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  • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
    ? maths ? 500 calls in 8 hours ? (480 mins) that is pumping calls, for 6 - 8 appts or roughly one and a bit in 1 hour, now if i book 2 leads and close 2 a week ? a 20% conversion I can be a millionaire ?

    Tell me then why I would bother calling at all ? to get 2 - 3 leads a day based on the above i am dialing in 200 - 300 a day ? after a week of that i would seriously not want to ever dial another number in my life.

    why would I just not employ or outsource the calling and look at closing a higher % of leads ? pay the callers a good income and earn even more millions ?
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    • Profile picture of the author massiveray
      Originally Posted by tryinhere View Post

      ? maths ? 500 calls in 8 hours ? (480 mins) that is pumping calls, for 6 - 8 appts or roughly one and a bit in 1 hour, now if i book 2 leads and close 2 a week ? a 20% conversion I can be a millionaire ?

      Tell me then why I would bother calling at all ? to get 2 - 3 leads a day based on the above i am dialing in 200 - 300 a day ? after a week of that i would seriously not want to ever dial another number in my life.

      why would I just not employ or outsource the calling and look at closing a higher % of leads ? pay the callers a good income and earn even more millions ?
      1) don't have the money
      2) don't know how to hire
      3) don't know how to manage
      4) blah blah more super awesome examples of why people don't just "hire others"
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    • Profile picture of the author ownergolan
      Originally Posted by tryinhere View Post

      ? maths ? 500 calls in 8 hours ? (480 mins) that is pumping calls, for 6 - 8 appts or roughly one and a bit in 1 hour, now if i book 2 leads and close 2 a week ? a 20% conversion I can be a millionaire ?

      Tell me then why I would bother calling at all ? to get 2 - 3 leads a day based on the above i am dialing in 200 - 300 a day ? after a week of that i would seriously not want to ever dial another number in my life.

      why would I just not employ or outsource the calling and look at closing a higher % of leads ? pay the callers a good income and earn even more millions ?
      Try to outsource something you didnt do yourself, and mastered the procedure.
      You are bound to fail.
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      Ill put in work, and watch my status escalate"
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        John; Today, I read two threads. Jason Kanigan's and yours.

        Always, always a pleasure to to hear an intelligent argument for managing expectations.

        Always worth reading. And what you say carries weight. Can't wait for more.


        (Someone said "I once tried to play the piano, and it didnt work! " lol) I'll never forget that line.
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      • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
        Originally Posted by ownergolan View Post

        Try to outsource something you didn't do yourself, and mastered the procedure.
        You are bound to fail.
        So what we are saying is that we should never use trusted call companies to do our work ? surly I could give them a product or service and they would script it for me and make xyz calls a day / xyz leads ? In that light we should write all of our own copy sell our own leads and do everything ourselves ? a one man band then never expands ? tough gig now when you look at it / forever tied to 300 calls a day to inch a living out ?

        The real crux is that the calling part here is being peddled as the main gig ? OK make a few your self if you want but that part calling is not where the money is ?

        There are millions ? 5 millions of people who will do this and it is so cheap these days it is outsourced to countries on mass, so if it is a low cost proportion of the role why focus on that ? pay somebody and focus on better conversions where the money / pay day is.

        20% conversion is way to low, the conversions should sit at 40 - 60% given everything is targeted and confirmed, 20% is just way to low.

        And even at 20% and seeing 10 a week by simply tripling the people I see (by just doing the closes not the calls and having more appointments) I can triple + my closes / income, more than enough to pay a caller with bonuses.

        As for no money down OK make the first few calls make a sale and reinvest into the calls hands down, as for not knowing how to hire or manage thats not my role it is the call center operators role to deal with that stuff, it is the service I am paying for.

        The call center leads should or would only be one stream of leads anyway so not sure why there is a 100% focus on these leads only.

        Did not fall out of bed yesterday in the gig so while I appreciate the comments, there has to be better ways to get a gig rolling than sitting there day after day numbering calls. It reminds me of a old fashioned chicken farm where they were penned to lay eggs, even they run free range today.
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        • Profile picture of the author John Durham
          Originally Posted by tryinhere View Post

          So what we are saying is that we should never use trusted call companies to do our work ? surly I could give them a product or service and they would script it for me and make xyz calls a day / xyz leads ? In that light we should write all of our own copy sell our own leads and do everything ourselves ? a one man band then never expands ? tough gig now when you look at it / forever tied to 300 calls a day to inch a living out ?

          The real crux is that the calling part here is being peddled as the main gig ? OK make a few your self if you want but that part calling is not where the money is ?

          There are millions ? 5 millions of people who will do this and it is so cheap these days it is outsourced to countries on mass, so if it is a low cost proportion of the role why focus on that ? pay somebody and focus on better conversions where the money / pay day is.

          20% conversion is way to low, the conversions should sit at 40 - 60% given everything is targeted and confirmed, 20% is just way to low.

          And even at 20% and seeing 10 a week by simply tripling the people I see (by just doing the closes not the calls and having more appointments) I can triple + my closes / income, more than enough to pay a caller with bonuses.

          As for no money down OK make the first few calls make a sale and reinvest into the calls hands down, as for not knowing how to hire or manage thats not my role it is the call center operators role to deal with that stuff, it is the service I am paying for.

          The call center leads should or would only be one stream of leads anyway so not sure why there is a 100% focus on these leads only.

          Did not fall out of bed yesterday in the gig so while I appreciate the comments, there has to be better ways to get a gig rolling than sitting there day after day numbering calls. It reminds me of a old fashioned chicken farm where they were penned to lay eggs, even they run free range today.
          You just have to view hiring the same way you do cold calling- with sound expectations management. In most call centers there are ten extra seats not being used... hiring becomes your main priority at some point... People use temp agencies and professional headhunters to hire, because it isnt easy.

          My own plan is to do it MASSIVELY...and play the numbers. In other words, give the opportunity to a thousand people, train them online in one central setting, and hope 2 out of 100 sell consistently... Then NEVER stop hiring.

          I hired 2000 people back in 2003 , with a massive ad campaign, and about 5 out of 100 went out and sold.

          Maybe a little less than ONE out of a hundred did it consistently. (Home workers).

          Again, hiring is as hard as cold calling... Its a main priority for most sales organizations and its their main concern, continual hiring.

          Its not realy a wham bamm thank you ma-am kinda thing. Its the holy grail. Not easily achieved on any significant scale without some good systems, dedication and mastery- and INVESTMENT.

          For what its worth I agree that hiring should be our priority... and I have watched a man make hundreds of millions of dollars from having others do his calling, whereas, alone you can make six figures or even seven maybe- if you are dedicated....but its wise to hire as soon as you can. You just have to know that companies dont spend millions of dollars trying to keep good salespeople for nothing. Its not so easily come by.

          When I get done being sick, I will tell you why people like us normal small indy biz owners.... dont outsource to big cold calling orgs... Mostly because you will get almost ZERO dedication without spending 100k...you have to realize , they have 100 callers, your one time $2,000 isnt a drop in the bucket, you are only going to get so much dedication and accountability for that from them... If you hire am individual person like Mwind though you could get alot of dedication for 2k... and you would have ONE person, doing a good job for you.

          Those kind are hard to find though... so you have to be dedicated and willing to invest in weeding through people.

          If your opp is strictly commission, then you have to hire MASSIVELY and play the numbers to get a handful of good sales people who will make you rich...either that or invest ALOT of time and money into your organization and training program, in which case, you may be able to turn one out of 5 into a dedicated worker.
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  • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
    I read this earlier... I haven't been around much to comment since I've been working on getting my office ready. Awesome space, its going to be nice.

    Anyway, I wish I could entice you to come here and train some people. LOL.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rearden
    Hey John and Others:

    Have you guys ever successfully ran a cold-calling based business model where you employed prospectors who dialed for interested leads, qualified them, and set them up for the salesmen to take them out, on a large scale?

    Or have you had the best success keeping the prospecting and closing activities meshed together?

    Again, on a larger scale basis, where an organization has a group of cold callers prospecting and qualifying to a certain extent, and a smaller group who's responsible for sealing the deal.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by Rearden View Post

      Hey John and Others:

      Have you guys ever successfully ran a cold-calling based business model where you employed prospectors who dialed for interested leads, qualified them, and set them up for the salesmen to take them out, on a large scale?

      Or have you had the best success keeping the prospecting and closing activities meshed together?

      Again, on a larger scale basis, where an organization has a group of cold callers prospecting and qualifying to a certain extent, and a smaller group who's responsible for sealing the deal.

      I use to have a room with four or five telemarketers who wrote about 100 health insurance leads per week for other companies salesmen... I consider that pretty small... But yeah, do have some experience with that.

      It doesnt really matter if the two are closely meshed together or not, it more depends on how good your telemarketers are, and how their pitch qualifies.. We promised and delivered a minimum of one out of three closable leads. In other words we strived to create leads that were qualified enough to where the salesman could close one out of 3 minimum, and never had any complaints in that area from clients.

      Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

      I read this earlier... I haven't been around much to comment since I've been working on getting my office ready. Awesome space, its going to be nice.

      Anyway, I wish I could entice you to come here and train some people. LOL.
      So the seeds have finally grown and you are going to delegate full blast in a controlled environment huh?

      Awesome. You will rock this bro!

      It may take you thirty days (At your rate of work ethic) to develop a core team, but once you have them they are going to produce like clockwork. You are the quintessential successful call center owner personality type.

      Originally Posted by MadLion View Post

      John, I really appreciate your post and it is as authentic as it gets.
      I was in the car business for 6 years before starting my own company. My first 5 months of selling

      cars I sucked. I blew through customers like a lion chasing a herd of gazelle. Many reps little sales. Then something clicked and I got it. I had no connection with people before I was trying to

      close them and it scared them away. 2 years later I was managing the sales team. 2 years later I was managing 2 dealerships sales departments. Sales is a craft and a profession like piano.

      Most people are not going to sit down and play Bethoven. Most people are not going to be master closer right out of the gate.

      Again, very very real post.
      Its been my career brother, building and managing call centers and numbers and conversion data and hiring and training... I only speak what I know from real experience working with numbers and lots of personality types and approaches... My job has always been to take a group and a program and "Make it work". No matter what that means, rewriting pitches, creating a TO systems, more training, hiring, motivations...whatever.

      Sometimes I motivate with a speech, or a spiff game...and sometimes I motivate by firing someone you never thought would get fired...and demonstrating a willingness to use authority ... Whatever needs to be done to make it work.

      Usually thats just close supervision and paying attention to the overall and individual numbers..., and enforcing accountability, mixed with motivation, and financial incentive...knowing when to pat on the back and when not to....with the various personalities...

      Some sales people are money motivated, some are securty motivated, and others are "atta boy" motivated...Some are 'socially" motivated (motivated by being considered an important part of a hardcore team...) you just have to keep an eye on everything and monitor it constantly , making sure all your people are getting whatever they need to perform.

      It can be different on different days... gotta stick and move, roll with the punches..., pay attention.

      It's a balance as you know.

      Glad you appreciate the post!

      So you have your own dealership now? Awesome accomplishment!
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  • Profile picture of the author MadLion
    John, I really appreciate your post and it is as authentic as it gets.
    I was in the car business for 6 years before starting my own company. My first 5 months of selling

    cars I sucked. I blew through customers like a lion chasing a herd of gazelle. Many reps little sales. Then something clicked and I got it. I had no connection with people before I was trying to

    close them and it scared them away. 2 years later I was managing the sales team. 2 years later I was managing 2 dealerships sales departments. Sales is a craft and a profession like piano.

    Most people are not going to sit down and play Bethoven. Most people are not going to be master closer right out of the gate.

    Again, very very real post.
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