Are you a bottom feeder?... Shame on you

by Adrian Browning Banned
61 replies
Are you a bottom feeder?

Now, you may not feel as if this title should be bestowed upon you... You may not even realize that this is the lifestyle that you have embraced! …Hell, you may even be one of "those guys" who endorses this alternate approach to business...

The fact remains though, that bottom feeding is what is stopping each one of you from making a fortune.

Now before the usual naysayers start pulling down their plaid skirts and revealing their polka-dot panties, I'd like to first state that this doesn't apply to everyone... Shockingly, I have noticed a few (only a few) that actually understand the power of Quality over Quantity.

To those that don't know me, my name is Adrian Browning: the most censored Marketer in the world… So you’d probably want to read this before the ‘powers that be’ take it down.

I am the founder of a flourishing privately owned Marketing and Media Agency... Not only that, but my recreational endeavors include Promoting Million Dollar sporting events, Advising popular public figures and Brokering ground-shaking deals

My monthly routine consists of $200,000 Dollar transactions, flights to Monaco and other lavish habits that I shan't speak of here today …I am nothing but 26 years of age, and still have an abundance of success that I am yet to experience...

But THAT isn't why I have come here today!

You see, months ago, I told you that selling SEO to Pizza guys and Hot Dog salesmen is the most commonly traveled route to inadequacy, failure and financial ruin.

Was I wrong in suggesting this? Hell no, I stand by that statement.

Simply put, If you haven’t ALREADY got at least 10 clients under your belt who are ALREADY paying out at least five figures per calendar month, then I’m afraid that you are wasting your time. It’s never going to happen …No matter what your views are, the fact remains that this entire market is completely saturated!

But, I'm not here to add insult to injury and spit all over your dreams because, believe it or not - I am here to tell you that, with effort from each one of you, this can change within just one month.

Last week after my third round of Golf, it became all too clear to me WHY the market had made it IMPOSSIBLE for a “newbie” to succeed in this field… It became all too obvious to me WHY people think it is acceptable to hawk SEO to Pizza Guys and smile as they receive only a disgraceful pittance in return… The problem was all too visible: It’s because each and every single one of you MADE IT THAT WAY! Yes indeed, it was each one of you that disheveled the market and drove down your own value to the point where even a mere Hot Dog salesman would sooner drive his own business into the ground than pay you more than $200 for some SEO work…

I closed my first SEO/Website deal way back in 2006. Do you think I offered some cheap frill to “get my foot in the door”? Do you think I cold called half the corporate population and begged them for some spare change? Tell me, do you think I spent my entire day fooling around with silly phone “scripts” as if I’m some small time thespian looking to land a lead role in the next American Beauty installment?... NO – But despite all of this, I approached that negotiation table like an absolute savage and closed the deal at $13,000 plus extras.

Now TODAY, the market is in such a state that a “newbie” could NEVER do the same thing… It just won’t happen… Their mentors are incompetent, their strategies are laughable and I’m sad to say that most just don’t have the drive to be successful in this field.

Yes… you have to be willing to do ‘whatever it takes’, not JUST whatever ‘everyone else’ is doing.

Now this brings me to the solution…

Firstly - each and every one of you needs to realize that through your actions, the entire market can be affected... Just one shift at the lowest level can (and will) create massive ramifications for even the largest players in the industry.

It all comes down to your price points.

First you need to think: what things in this world are priced at $200… an Xbox console, vacuum cleaners, a low-end LCD Television set… pretty much a bunch of disposable items right? Now, you mean to tell me that for the same price as some crappy LCD set, you can boost the profits of my business by untold amounts and lead my company into the path of prosperity for years and years to come? Or for the same price as that old dusty vacuum cleaner that my wife drags around the house, you can lift my company from debt and propel our dismal income into the stratosphere? – THIS is what CEO’s, Owners and other Decision Makers think when you approach them with your little $250 Dollar marketing plans.

Get your mind in the game people! – Do you realize that even Owners at the lowest level spend more than $200 on a half decent night out at some down-trodden Hooters bar every Thursday evening?… Please understand that even the lowliest CEO spends more than $200 JUST to get his car detailed every two weeks… $200? Well damn, that won’t even get you a first class coach ticket across state. – But somehow, you expect me to believe that for $200, you’ll turn my company into a money sucking machine – PUH-LEASE

I hope you see where I am going with this?

Get your mind in the game!

If you think that your price point is “too-high” then you are on the right track… If you look at the price of your package and you just can't picture someone paying out that amount, even to a bunch of offshore kidnappers who are holding his kids for ransom – then you are on the right track… All of this $200 Dollar and “get my foot in the door” stuff has to stop.

Owners are not the buffoons that you perceive them to be, because I can tell you now if you walk into my office and prove, beyond reasonable doubt, that you can somehow improve the fortunes of my company – then why would paying you $15,000 be an issue for me? … They’ll always be a way for me to pay you. BUT if you come into my office with an entire presentation and then only request $200 for your services, I’ll politely ask you to leave and then proceed to make cruel jokes about you with my staff.

It boils down to this, if you set your minimum price at $10,000 and make 10 sales a month – that’s a cool and easy $100,000… Hell, even if you only manage to make three sales in the space of 30 days, that’s $30,000 and something tangible for you to build upon.

The moral of this post: DON’T be afraid to ask for $10,000 - even if that is too much money for YOU, it is only peanuts for someone else (especially business 'owners')… If each and every one of you raised your prices today, this will affect the market in such a way that even newbies will once again be able to walk into someone’s office and demand $10K for SEO work…

Do the right thing

- Adrian
#adrian browning #bottom #feeder #shame
  • Profile picture of the author Rearden
    What's the name of one of your businesses and why does a Texan speak the King's English?
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    • Profile picture of the author rushindo
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        I can't believe I'm going to say this......
        But that wasn't a bad post. It even showed copywriting skill. It even had a point. I know, I can't believe I'm saying it either.:rolleyes:
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        • Profile picture of the author jimbo13
          I don't think you will be banned for this. It is spot on.

          Small Office with say 50 people over two floors no real mess to clean.

          Cleaners come in at night. 2 cleaners 1 hour each.

          That is approx £24 per night to the contract cleaning agency = £120 per week = £540 per month plus VAT = £648 which is approx $1000 per month.

          Why on earth people who purport to understand marketing would charge less than a cleaner to spray a bit of polish on desks and wave a duster about is beyond me.

          And that is why Business Owners say your price is too high when you quote such low prices.

          Because it is.

          "If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair

          That is what they are thinking. (Well in the UK they will be)

          Dan
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        • Profile picture of the author John Durham
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          I can't believe I'm going to say this......
          But that wasn't a bad post. It even showed copywriting skill. It even had a point. I know, I can't believe I'm saying it either.:rolleyes:
          I am personally am turned off by Adrians mannerism. If he would lie and say Texans wear plaid skirts...then I wouldnt believe what he says he had for breakfast....but despite all of that, I agree with YOU here Claude, and if one were not throwing out the baby with the bathwater, they may find some Gold in this post.

          Wisdom can come out of a Donkey's butt , or my worst enemy for all I care... I can appreciate the message itself if its on, regardless of whether I appreciate the person.
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          • Profile picture of the author celente
            Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

            I am personally am turned off by Adrians mannerism. .
            LOL. Well about 5 months ago, you were in here apologizing for this exact thing. :p

            The warrior forum now with more members is not as good as it use to be, but still, there are golden nuggets in here only for people who take action. Nothing more nothing less.
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            • Profile picture of the author John Durham
              Originally Posted by celente View Post

              LOL. Well about 5 months ago, you were in here apologizing for this exact thing. :p

              The warrior forum now with more members is not as good as it use to be, but still, there are golden nuggets in here only for people who take action. Nothing more nothing less.
              Yes. And I would be more comfortable with you had not you felt the obligation to point that out to me several times now... I "did" get it the first time.

              Im not cutting the man down, if anything Im telling people that whether they like him or not, he has some nuggets to share.
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              • Profile picture of the author celente
                Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

                Yes. And I would be more comfortable with you had not you felt the obligation to point that out to me several times now... I "did" get it the first time.

                Im not cutting the man down, if anything Im telling people that whether they like him or not, he has some nuggets to share.
                ITs all good, and no hard feelings please, And I get your point entirely.

                my point was the old warrior forum was giving good advice and patting people on backs. I can safely say its not like that now...but there is still some good information floating around...lots of it. And lots of people who give their time and their killer tips like yourself.
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                • Profile picture of the author John Durham
                  Originally Posted by celente View Post

                  ITs all good, and no hard feelings please, And I get your point entirely.

                  my point was the old warrior forum was giving good advice and patting people on backs. I can safely say its not like that now...but there is still some good information floating around...lots of it. And lots of people who give their time and their killer tips like yourself.
                  Thanks Celente, much love. I am glad you got it without offense, because you really are a great poster yourself. You ARE correct though, I have been given alot of grace and so whenever reminded I try to give it back.'

                  In this case "grace" would dictate that we give credit where it is due...maybe not where it isnt, but at least where it is...., and the guy makes some good points here and in several posts...

                  I "do" think he is trying to fill the shoes of the old "rich jerk", and so I dont think he is probably really this on a personal level...I think he is trying to fill a niche.

                  In the process of that some really rude things come out that shouldnt... However, he DOES have a great basic premise which is "Dont cheapen yourself".

                  He has been one of my worse Warriors enemies ever....and Im sure he would never give me the same grace, but I dont expect everyone to be me, only expect that from self.

                  In any event, like him or not...he has some good nuggets in some of his posts. Maybe they are original, or maybe they are rehash....but they DO inspire.

                  Someone who inspires you is worth an atta boy at very least, if for nothing else but those moments of epiphany they brought to you. I have been inspired by my worse enemies more than once here.

                  Doubtful this will ever be the case with Adrian, but some of them have actually turned into friends over the years.

                  An intelligent person just throws out the bathwater...they dont throw the baby with it.


                  Ps. With all of that being said.... if he jumps one of my friends Im still jumpin in!
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  • Profile picture of the author DaniMc
    Hey Adrian,

    I don't chime in much. But, I am looking for you on the web. Adrian Browning Seabook, TX yields nothing.

    Can you help me out? I like what you posted and I just want to know a little more about you. A businessman like yourself should be easy to find.

    Best Regards,
    Daniel
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    Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
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  • Profile picture of the author d0rhk
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  • Profile picture of the author dave147
    Adrian,
    For a man of your success you should learn to be more cocky
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    • Profile picture of the author Adrian Browning
      Banned
      Originally Posted by jimbo13 View Post

      Small Office with say 50 people over two floors no real mess to clean.

      Cleaners come in at night. 2 cleaners 1 hour each.

      That is approx £24 per night to the contract cleaning agency = £120 per week = £540 per month plus VAT = £648 which is approx $1000 per month.

      Why on earth people who purport to understand marketing would charge less than a cleaner to spray a bit of polish on desks and wave a duster about is beyond me.

      Dan
      Dan,

      Agreed... this is what disgusts me about those that are trying to 'get in the game' ... They seem to want to make things more complicated than they need be

      Time and time again I hear people sprout out things such as "you need to provide value", or "you need to make business owners see the value in your package": yet these same people charge $200 Dollars for their Marketing Strategies, which instantly diminishes any "value" that previously may have been established.

      But because people would rather over-complicate everything... instead of analyzing the facts and figuring out why their pitch, although executed as planned, DIDN'T induce the desired results - they just assume that next-time around it would be appropriate to just knock an extra $100 off the price or (even worse) offer a free website to get their foot in the door.

      Consider this... A salesman approaches you in the street.. He has a bunch of Gucci garments that he SWEARS are all authentic... He goes on to deliver the most mind blowing sales-pitch and then proceeds to state his asking price..... $20 a piece... and that is for garments which retail at $XXXX amount of Dollars... this instantly diminishes the competence of this individual and his product

      This is the exact same thing that happens when marketers stroll into people's offices only to offer them the world for 25 cents.. they come off exactly like those knock-off Watch dealers that lurk around only to force their counterfeit goods on you

      "Value" is not only 'what you can do' for someones company, but also 'what THEY have to do to gain your services' ... Which is why, again, I urge everyone not to be afraid to charge $10,000

      Originally Posted by d0rhk View Post

      See, it's that easy guys.

      F*ck sakes go away.
      It was easy enough for me, you d0rhk

      Originally Posted by dave147 View Post

      Adrian,
      For a man of your success you should learn to be more cocky
      I am only a success because I am able to outsmart, out-think, and out-maneuver the average human being...

      I can also work till no end, but have the ability to understand that 'less work' + 'greater results' = efficiency/wealth

      If one guy has a minimum rate of $200, and my minimum rate is $15,000 who has to make more sales before hitting $100,000? also, who would have less work to do? and ultimately, who do you think will have much greater scope to operate more efficiently and therefore capitalize on other opportunities to create more wealth?

      - Adrian
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      • Profile picture of the author PeacefulCalamity
        Originally Posted by Adrian Browning View Post


        I am only a success because I am able to outsmart, out-think, and out-maneuver the average human being...

        I can also work till no end, but have the ability to understand that 'less work' + 'greater results' = efficiency/wealth

        - Adrian
        Adrian Browning, 2.0.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
    Adrian, you have a truly great vocabulary and an acid wit.

    I think you used them for something positive this time.

    This closing line was excellent and bears repeating:

    DON’T be afraid to ask for $10,000 - even if that is too much money for YOU, it is only peanuts for someone else (especially business 'owners')...

    That is called Money Tolerance. Readers, be aware of yours. Just because YOU think it's a lot of money doesn't mean they do.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rearden
    Besides the fact that Adrian can't provide any proof of his claims (except the self-evident fact that he's a skilled copywriter for the opportunity niche), I can't get over the fact at how disengenuous and simplified his approach is.

    It doesn't matter which industry you're in -- selling insurance, uniforms, SEO/Web Design -- if you spend your time hunting elephants only, you:

    1) Will probably starve before you actually bag 'em, and,
    2) Are competiting against the most formidable competition and well-versed, toughest prospects, too.

    For example, how do you win baseball? By home runs only? No!

    You win baseball, and any sales endeavor, too, with the basics, the bread and butter -- singles, doubles, and a good field game. Fundamentals, baby!

    Not only that, when you have a small volume of huge clients, you're much more vulnerable to dramatic fluctuations in profit. Because, yes, even the big shots lose clients, too

    Then, on top of that, the sales cycle can be YEARS -- not months or weeks like the "Pizza Guys."

    Should you go after the elephants? Sure! But you need to stick to the fundamentals -- the bread and butter business that turns profit and cash flow quickly, versus spending all your time on a few massive accounts only (and dying on the vine in the mean time.).

    How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.
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    • Profile picture of the author SteveSki
      Originally Posted by Rearden View Post

      Besides the fact that Adrian can't provide any proof of his claims (except the self-evident fact that he's a skilled copywriter for the opportunity niche), I can't get over the fact at how disengenuous and simplified his approach is.

      It doesn't matter which industry you're in -- selling insurance, uniforms, SEO/Web Design -- if you spend your time hunting elephants only, you:

      1) Will probably starve before you actually bag 'em, and,
      2) Are competiting against the most formidable competition and well-versed, toughest prospects, too.

      For example, how do you win baseball? By home runs only? No!

      You win baseball, and any sales endeavor, too, with the basics, the bread and butter -- singles, doubles, and a good field game. Fundamentals, baby!

      Not only that, when you have a small volume of huge clients, you're much more vulnerable to dramatic fluctuations in profit. Because, yes, even the big shots lose clients, too

      Then, on top of that, the sales cycle can be YEARS -- not months or weeks like the "Pizza Guys."

      Should you go after the elephants? Sure! But you need to stick to the fundamentals -- the bread and butter business that turns profit and cash flow quickly, versus spending all your time on a few massive accounts only (and dying on the vine in the mean time.).

      How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.
      Good points....

      But Adrian makes a good case for raising your prices.

      I'm in the portrait business... when I use to pitch a $500 package I almost went broke. When I raised my prices by 10X I didn't bag many elephants at the $5,000 mark...

      But suddenly I was bagging a lot of $2500 Lions and Tigers... not bad for a half hour photo shoot.

      I just passed Googles Trusted Photographer test today.... they recommend charging $195 - $295 to do a Panorama photo shoot for a business.

      I cannot afford to work for so little. So instead of pitching that service, I'll use the Trusted Photographer certification for a creditability booster but will pitch $10,000 per month services and throw a photo shoot in for free. Otherwise it's $5000 for me to do Pano shots for their google listings.

      Charging $200 a month means you will have to do much of the work yourself to deliver the results you promised... but at $10,000 per month... I can pay $5000 per month to an outsourcer to manage the account and deliver the results for me.

      So it's good advice to raise your prices...

      Remember, if they don't bite at your higher price... you always have the option of making them a one-time special deal at a reduced price... but only
      if they take it right then and there.

      Stop begging for business and assume the posture of a winner and you will bag bigger animals than rabbits and ducks.

      Cheers,
      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by SteveSki View Post

        Good points....
        But Adrian makes a good case for raising your prices.

        I'm in the portrait business... when I use to pitch a $500 package I almost went broke. When I raised my prices by 10X I didn't bag many elephants at the $5,000 mark...

        But suddenly I was bagging a lot of $2500 Lions and Tigers... not bad for a half hour photo shoot.
        Now THAT'S a reason to read this thread.
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      • Profile picture of the author Adrian Browning
        Banned
        Originally Posted by SteveSki View Post

        when I use to pitch a $500 package I almost went broke. When I raised my prices by 10X I didn't bag many elephants at the $5,000 mark...

        But suddenly I was bagging a lot of $2500 Lions and Tigers... not bad for a half hour photo shoot.

        Charging $200 a month means you will have to do much of the work yourself to deliver the results you promised... but at $10,000 per month... I can pay $5000 per month to an outsourcer to manage the account and deliver the results for me.

        Remember, if they don't bite at your higher price... you always have the option of making them a one-time special deal at a reduced price... but only
        if they take it right then and there.

        Stop begging for business and assume the posture of a winner and you will bag bigger animals than rabbits and ducks.
        Steve,

        Glad to come across someone who 'gets' how business works.

        If you're handicapping your marketing efforts by offering out only 'rock-bottom' prices, not only are you shortchanging yourself, but you aren't giving yourself any room to maneuver whatsoever...

        Once you have made it through to that negotiation table and you state your asking price, your prospect will never EVER negotiate upwards, the only route to travel is down ...But the question is, where do you go from $200? that is already a pittance in itself.

        This is one of my trademark strategies that I use repeatedly when investing in new businesses or when launching my own Ventures.

        For example, some of you may know that I am part owner of a string of Interior Design companies... When I first bought in, sales where at a shameful level due to the simple fact that the previous owners had absolutely no knowledge of the 'psychology' behind getting things sold...

        I took it upon myself to 'personally' get my hands dirty, and turn things around... This involved me visiting each store twice a week - over a two week period...

        During week one, I had noticed that there was in fact the most god-awful and dreadful cancer eating away at the very fabric of that business

        ... Yes

        ...They were bottom feeding! I noticed that customers were being shown the 'low-end' of the line, and then encouraged to consider more expensive models afterwards (the traditional "trading up" approach)... The total sales for that week was $18,000

        However, due to my mere suggestion, during the second week - customers were led instantly to a $3000 billiard table, regardless of what they wanted to see and then allowed to shop the rest of the line in declining order of price and quality... the result of 'selling down' was a total sale of $29,000+ almost doubling the previous week.

        This is the purest example of the "Larger-then-Smaller" sequence, where you stand your ground and request a high price, if your prospect buys - that's frosting on the cake... However, if they decline - then you can now effectively counter-offer with a more 'reasonable' price... But either way, you still leave their office 8 to 10 Grand richer...

        If you're out there selling your soul for $200 bucks, you're giving yourself ZERO leverage... not only that, but you'll also be coming off as an individual with ZERO self respect... and ultimately, you'll leave your prospect with ZERO confidence in your abilities.

        So be wise, and raise your prices today - before it's too late.

        - Adrian
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  • Profile picture of the author peterbujok
    This was awesome. I don't care if Adrian's actually an 80 year old woman from Turkmenistan, this post just completely changed my mentality. I was browsing through the Inc 5000 list yesterday and I realized how ugly some of those company's websites are. One of these potential clients could cover a year of mediocre clients that typical freelancers usually find.

    I've decided I'm going to focus my attention on a smaller number of these bigger companies instead of going after the "Pizza" guys as I have been doing. Spot on, Adrian.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rearden
    Raising prices is a great idea.

    Hunting elephants only is not.

    There is a difference.
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    • Profile picture of the author Seantrepreneur
      Originally Posted by Rearden View Post

      Raising prices is a great idea.

      Hunting elephants only is not.

      There is a difference.
      Very well said my man.

      I'm assuming the $10,000 for SEO only was just an example, right? $10,000 for SEO only would be for an enormous company that does millions of dollars online. Plus, you better be ready to preform seriously high level SEO for that kind of money. And I'm not talking about changing title tags and buying links on fiverr.

      There is nothing wrong at all charging what you're worth and I think $200 is wayyyy to low for sure. However, if there are newbies reading this, please don't start going into meetings with $10,000 SEO proposals. That's a great way to get discouraged and quit.

      Start with what you think is fair for you and the client. Then once you have experience and results to show for yourself, don't be afraid to up your prices.

      Sean
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  • Profile picture of the author Tangycontent
    I was just thinking earlier today about how my latest BST content thread is a far higher price than those who are in India, the Philippines, etc. and then I come across this thread.

    Maybe us non-bottom-feeder providers should post up a thread about "bottom eaters"? Because I can assure you that this forum is LOADED with cheapskates that wouldn't think of paying anything more than the lowest possible cost.

    C'est la vie. I'll keep providing premium service at a higher rate and seeing lower sales than I would if I just farmed everything out.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rearden
    I think Dan Kennedy's advice on having the high-margin offerings amongst regular-margin items, and only expecting to sell a handful a year, is a great idea.

    However, details don't matter when you're selling high-margin opportunity -- details like multi-year sales cycle, competitive pressures, and having the work capacity and time dedicated to generating the deals, not to mention the actual margin on the deal.

    As they say, "Eat with the classes, and sell to the masses."
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Speaking about Dan Kennedy.... I was at one of his Summits, and listened to a husband and wife couple talk about a coaching program, that they charged $100,000 a year for. They had a video, and talked about Caviar Dreams.

      I thought they were nuts. My friend called it the "I'll be your friend for $100,000 a year" program.

      It was a year before someone pointed out that the reason for the $100,000 a year coaching program was to sell a $25,000 a year program. I feel like a moron for not seeing it.

      The last event I spoke at had maybe 40 in the room. I sold 5 my $4,000 programs, and was pretty happy....until a lady sold 14 of them her...Ahem!....$22,000 a year program. The same people. expensive lesson there.

      And one thing Kennedy teaches that I use, is to have (Like you said) a "slack adjuster" in my offers.
      Having a high end offer mixed in might only convert 5% of your sales. But it could double your profits from the offer.

      But there is a point here. I really won't ever sell the $50,000 deals. Why? I simply have no tolerance for multiple meetings, agendas, corporate hierarchy, proposals, and schmoozing.

      I'm thinking of offering a $10,000 program. But only to self employed business owners. I think like them.
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      • Profile picture of the author rushindo
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        But there is a point here. I really won't ever sell the $50,000 deals. Why? I simply have no tolerance for multiple meetings, agendas, corporate hierarchy, proposals, and schmoozing.
        I encourage you to rethink this. YOU control how you work, not clients. You don't have to abide by their rules, they abide by your rules. If they don't like the way you work, they can keep their money.

        The more you charge, the more they expect YOU to take charge and set the rules. I only work with large corporations now. One company wants to pay us $10 million for an engagement. They mentioned me flying up to New York from North Carolina to meet with their marketing team, their investors, etc.

        I just listened to her talk (the CEO) but she has no idea that I'm not going to do that. I'm not going anywhere. She will find out if and when she tries to request I fly up there. Not happening. They can keep the money if they expect me to "go see them" and try to impress their investors to give them more money so they can afford us.

        So I encourage you to set the rules. You determine how many meetings. Project an attitude that you have no one to impress which eliminates the pressure to schmooze. If they don't want to play by your rules, don't take their money.

        Brandon
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  • Profile picture of the author maricelu
    " I am the founder of a flourishing privately owned Marketing and Media Agency " - This is a myth, Adrian.
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    • Profile picture of the author DaniMc
      Don't take any of this the wrong way Claude.

      The only difference between you and her is NOT the price. It is the pitch.

      I'm not saying I have done what she has done BUT, I am saying that there are reasons people paid her more that have nothing to do with price.

      I would get her pitch, study every single freakin word and evaluate it. "Why did she say that?"

      I help companies make VC pitches all the time. Millions at stake and one word can make the difference. I know you are experienced. I'd love to help you if you are interested. I will start pitching to live audiences soon also. The thing is, I help people pitch for millions already. There is no reason these techniques can't be adapted for smaller amounts. In fact, I am crazy for not doing it sooner.

      If you would like to chat, I can probably give you everything you need in less than two hours.

      I'm not saying I am better than you. I am only saying that perhaps I can elevate your pitch just a little.

      As for Adrian, he skipped my questions. I wonder why? I'd love to meet him on the phone or Skype. Either way, this is a good thread.



      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

      Speaking about Dan Kennedy.... I was at one of his Summits, and listened to a husband and wife couple talk about a coaching program, that they charged $100,000 a year for. They had a video, and talked about Caviar Dreams.

      I thought they were nuts. My friend called it the "I'll be your friend for $100,000 a year" program.

      It was a year before someone pointed out that the reason for the $100,000 a year coaching program was to sell a $25,000 a year program. I feel like a moron for not seeing it.

      The last event I spoke at had maybe 40 in the room. I sold 5 my $4,000 programs, and was pretty happy....until a lady sold 14 of them her...Ahem!....$22,000 a year program. The same people. expensive lesson there.

      And one thing Kennedy teaches that I use, is to have (Like you said) a "slack adjuster" in my offers.
      Having a high end offer mixed in might only convert 5% of your sales. But it could double your profits from the offer.

      But there is a point here. I really won't ever sell the $50,000 deals. Why? I simply have no tolerance for multiple meetings, agendas, corporate hierarchy, proposals, and schmoozing.

      I'm thinking of offering a $10,000 program. But only to self employed business owners. I think like them.
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by Prevalent View Post

        Don't take any of this the wrong way Claude.

        The only difference between you and her is NOT the price. It is the pitch.

        I'm not saying I have done what she has done BUT, I am saying that there are reasons people paid her more that have nothing to do with price.

        I would get her pitch, study every single freakin word and evaluate it. "Why did she say that?"
        Sorry, but I did take it the wrong way. And you should know, I can dish it out, but I can't take it! :rolleyes:

        Anyway, I've studied her pitch. I've studied nearly 100 very successful pitches from the front of audiences. I either buy the DVDs or record them live.
        Dan Kennedy cuts off the closes of the speakers at his events, but I get them other ways.

        In my post (the one you are referring to), I was impressed by how much my friend took in from each attendee. But it's a different pitch, a different appeal.

        I'm friends with two other speakers that are experienced, high earning platform salespeople. We really know what the appeals are, the structure, and timing of the sales talk. It's what we do.

        They pay her more because she sells "coaching". And coaching is the easiest thing to sell, and for the highest dollars. Why? Because there is nothing to compare it to except anticipated benefits. Coaching pitches are different from what I do. I learn from them, but it's not something I would offer.

        It's just a choice. I want to sell what I sell. I may slide into sales training again. It's what I'm really good at.

        rushindo; Good tips, thanks.
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        • Profile picture of the author rushindo
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          They pay her more because she sells "coaching". And coaching is the easiest thing to sell, and for the highest dollars. Why? Because there is nothing to compare it to except anticipated benefits.
          Claude, please elaborate more on this. I may want to do coaching one day. What do you mean "there is nothing to compare it to except anticipated benefits"?

          Brandon
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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            Originally Posted by rushindo View Post

            Claude, please elaborate more on this. I may want to do coaching one day. What do you mean "there is nothing to compare it to except anticipated benefits"?

            Brandon
            Coaching is not perceived as a commodity. There is nothing to compare to establish value. As long as the prospect is convinced that they will get more than it costs...they are in.

            What would you campare it to? You aren't selling an hourly service, you aren't selling books and CDs.

            Coaching adds values that are not available with services. They are literally buying a relationship with you. They are buying the contacts with the rest of the Coaching group (if there is one). They are buying future results with no current effort on their part. They are buying hand holding and direction from the Guru. Virtually everything they are buying is an intangible.

            Coaching is easy to sell if the audience perceives you as their Guru. So coaching is normally pitched to people who are already your customers. It's an advanced sale. This isn't "life coaching". Go to E-Bay, and buy Dan Kennedy's coaching program for a couple hundred dollars. You'll get most of what you need there.

            $1,000-$2,000 a month fees are very typical. But again, it's advanced selling. And it's easy to screw up.
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  • Profile picture of the author njs7227
    I don't know who the OP is or whether he is real, but the post rings true. I have a handful of clients that I provide online services for - all well and good. However, my neighbor opened up a bakery several years ago and made every mistake under the sun as far as website and SEO services - even as I was on the sidelines telling her what her best options were and what she needed to do. Keep in mind, this was FREE advice because we've been friends for 7 years, our boys play together, etc, etc.

    Earlier this week I find out that back in April she paid a lady $3000 to build a simple website for her bakery - which, by the way, still has not been delivered. AARRRRGGGHHH!!!!!

    But that's not the worst thing - she wanted me to make some videos for her - for FREE - in exchange for her cutting my son's hair (she has clippers and over the past 7 years, I've sent him over to get a cut 7 or 8 times). AARRRRGGGHHH!!!!! I told her I'd just as soon take him down to Supercuts and pay the $12.

    But my frustration came with the fact that she wouldn't follow my free advice but would pay some shyster $3000 for a simple website...WHY????!!!!

    So that's why this post rings true - business people have a perception of value and selling "cheap" (or even free) services - or even being a friend - just does not convince them that you're valuable.
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    • Profile picture of the author DaniMc
      Here is the thing.....

      Free advice has no value. I have stopped giving free advice to friends and family. People place no value on it. Anything free is good for throwing away.

      She heard you, thought you had no value since it was free, and hired someone else. I have been through it many times. I don't do it anymore.

      Psssh...a bakery. We could double her revenue. But she wont listen. And she never will. Treat her the same as your other customers. Or, charge her a %10 friends and family tax, that might make her listen.

      Originally Posted by njs7227 View Post

      I don't know who the OP is or whether he is real, but the post rings true. I have a handful of clients that I provide online services for - all well and good. However, my neighbor opened up a bakery several years ago and made every mistake under the sun as far as website and SEO services - even as I was on the sidelines telling her what her best options were and what she needed to do. Keep in mind, this was FREE advice because we've been friends for 7 years, our boys play together, etc, etc.

      Earlier this week I find out that back in April she paid a lady $3000 to build a simple website for her bakery - which, by the way, still has not been delivered. AARRRRGGGHHH!!!!!

      But that's not the worst thing - she wanted me to make some videos for her - for FREE - in exchange for her cutting my son's hair (she has clippers and over the past 7 years, I've sent him over to get a cut 7 or 8 times). AARRRRGGGHHH!!!!! I told her I'd just as soon take him down to Supercuts and pay the $12.

      But my frustration came with the fact that she wouldn't follow my free advice but would pay some shyster $3000 for a simple website...WHY????!!!!

      So that's why this post rings true - business people have a perception of value and selling "cheap" (or even free) services - or even being a friend - just does not convince them that you're valuable.
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  • Profile picture of the author internetPro
    This rates the line from boiler room.

    I am sorry doctor we can only sell you 2000 shares this time but let us show you some returns and later we can higher.

    Okay not verbatim but you get the point?

    Still 2000 shares was a butt load of money
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by internetPro View Post

      This rates the line from boiler room.

      I am sorry doctor we can only sell you 2000 shares this time but let us show you some returns and later we can higher.

      Okay not verbatim but you get the point?

      Still 2000 shares was a butt load of money

      The old proverbial "Admission of Guilt", mixed with a little "Take Away" action. AMAZING how that can work for a salesperson if they will learn it.

      In a call center you dont decide to "learn it" out of a desire for personal development..., you just read the script that you have agreed to read verbatim, or else get fired...and eventually you "learn it".

      Originally Posted by umc View Post

      I've enjoyed this thread immensely. I grew up poor, and my wife kind of did too
      So did I, and when I was a kid every problem we had was because "money" was hard to come by... and when I grew up I was afraid to ask for higher prices because I believed that "money" was hard to come by...

      I suppose thats why Im so passionate about sharing the things that helped me learn to make it today, because I see it as such a pain in others lives, not knowing how to make it.

      Today, however, I understand that not everyone grew up that way, and while making money seemed to be the biggest mountain in the world for some of us to climb...others just "expect it" and their standards are different.

      Its hard to believe but money really isnt a problem or issue for some... being afraid to ask for it is alot of times because we have some dis-empowering belief from childhood.

      It has taken me many years to overcome the idea that "discounting" is the answer to everything. Although, I still recommend it for a newby because it will be easier on their psyche when learning and they will get a faster first sale, and that will build their confidence...at first...

      Everything in my life when I was a kid, all the trauma, every single issue we had came down to money being so hard to come by...I grew up feeling like making money musty be the ultimate thing because its so hard to come by, and that it was the answer to everything, like some kind of magic that only a few, privileged can discover....

      Now I know, money isnt hard to come by...its simply one good idea away from us at all times.

      I know that its not a big issue to EVERYONE like it was us...

      And I know that just because it was the reason for most of my problems growing up....it certainly isnt the only thing needed to making a great life.

      I must agree with Tony Robbins though, in my own words...."Rolling up to your personal problems with 10k in your pocket, sure beats rolling up to them broke and desperate...".
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      • Profile picture of the author celente
        Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

        And I know that just because it was the reason for most of my problems growing up....it certainly isnt the only thing needed to making a great life.

        I must agree with Tony Robbins though, in my own words...."Rolling up to your personal problems with 10k in your pocket, sure beats rolling up to them broke and desperate...".
        This is so true.

        When I was in my 20's I went chasing money. I ended up broke, as I was working for a boss who was stealing clients money without our knowledge....she is now in jail for stealing investors money. And it is where she belongs.

        But I love the points Johnny makes.

        It taught me a few things, yes, we need money, but the more you chase it the more it seems NOT to find you.

        I have always believed that if you help people first they money will follow you.

        Now while that is cliche, i have to admit, yes it actually does work, and I run 2 very very successful offline and several online businesses and when you help people for FREE Oh my GOD! how it can open up pandaras box. BIG TIME!

        Just by giving away a simple few strategies and using some of the things you see in here in the WF..... multimillion dollar companies will open up and share with you how they advertise and make their money. It is insane, how much inside info you can get by asking and helping. I mean what you are receiving is FREE. see the laws of give and take arrive at your doorstep again.

        I also think with the scams and stuff out there, you have to help and gain trust more than ever these days, so its a win win situation if you do the whole....help first and then ask later.

        But I like the points John D makes. We all need money to survive. And in this struggling economy and the value of the US dollar diminishing (oh, oh! you aint seen nothing yet in that department) we still fight to make a buck.
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        • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
          Originally Posted by celente View Post


          I have always believed that if you help people first they money will follow you.

          Now while that is cliche, i have to admit, yes it actually does work, and I run 2 very very successful offline and several online businesses and when you help people for FREE Oh my GOD! how it can open up pandaras box. BIG TIME!

          Just by giving away a simple few strategies and using some of the things you see in here in the WF..... multimillion dollar companies will open up and share with you how they advertise and make their money. It is insane, how much inside info you can get by asking and helping. I mean what you are receiving is FREE. see the laws of give and take arrive at your doorstep again.
          .
          While i agree with you, that is dangerous for the new people, they can, and
          sometimes do get raked over the coals.

          Hell even us vets get thumped.

          If you are going to help some one for free, don't do it expecting anything
          in return and always make sure whatever it is your doing, does not adversely
          effect your plan ie time / money / or anything that derails what you
          have in motion.

          Other wise you can wind up on a downhill sloap faster then you can blink
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          • Profile picture of the author celente
            Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

            While i agree with you, that is dangerous for the new people, they can, and
            sometimes do get raked over the coals.

            Hell even us vets get thumped.

            If you are going to help some one for free, don't do it expecting anything
            in return and always make sure whatever it is your doing, does not adversely
            effect your plan ie time / money / or anything that derails what you
            have in motion.

            Other wise you can wind up on a downhill sloap faster then you can blink
            I have learnt the hard way, dont worry.

            I get your point, but there is a fine line here also, between getting humped for free info and becoming the guru where you can earn a good living.
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            • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
              Originally Posted by celente View Post

              I have learnt the hard way, dont worry.

              I get your point, but there is a fine line here also, between getting humped for free info and becoming the guru where you can earn a good living.
              Full on agree. As far as getting burnt, i think it is a right of passage.

              the fine line is the tricky part.

              I imagine you have been in bizz a while, so you know how fine a line it truly is,
              you have built up a resistance to it, you have learned from trial and error.

              So have I, and i would be willing to bet any one who has been in business
              any length of time has.

              but the newbies, yeah, they have to take their lumps, its the only way to grow
              as a business person, however here in the WF, it appears (to me at least)
              that many, many, too many wait until they are desperate.

              and that IMO is when it is the most dangerous to NOT understand that fine line.
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  • Profile picture of the author Liz Morgan
    Originally Posted by Adrian Browning View Post


    I am the founder of a flourishing privately owned Marketing and Media Agency... Not only that, but my recreational endeavors include Promoting Million Dollar sporting events, Advising popular public figures and Brokering ground-shaking deals
    Wow, you've come a long way from posts like these, only a few months ago:

    http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ml#post6522763

    http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-...ml#post6522746
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    • Profile picture of the author umc
      I've enjoyed this thread immensely. I grew up poor, and my wife kind of did too, and as such we both came from backgrounds where price was everything. Well, low price was everything. So, in all of our business ventures over the years, we've had to fight hard not to be ridiculously inexpensive with our pricing. I still struggle with it mightily, not always from a confidence standpoint, though that plays a part too, but often just from an "I wouldn't pay someone that much" standpoint. Threads like this, and others that have discussed the reality that exists wherein we need to look at pricing through the eyes of the person buying, and not our own, really make me challenge my flawed perceptions. I'll never know who here is really telling the truth as to the monetary size of the deals that they deliver on, but I know that they can't all be mere posturing, and it gives me courage and hope to do bigger things someday.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    @ Celente and Ken,

    When I started giving free info on the Warrior forum...I mean just opening up the floodgates and GIVING unabashedly.... my PM box started filling up with people wanting to PAY me for things. I did not do this intentionally, but it happened.

    Next thing you know 90 days later I had made more money helping people on WF then I had in that same ninety days of offline marketing... It was not planned, it just happened from "giving".

    I think it works that way in all of life... you GIVE enough to a prospect, and they want to give you money in return.

    People dont like uneven balance...if they feel you are tipping them over too hard with giving, a large percentage of them will want to give back to you, to even it out, subconsciously... There are some who dont feel that, but its AMAZING how many people do.

    I have also done what Ken is saying... I abandoned all of my other work to give myself wholly to charity a few times, and set myself back for MONTHS.... in the end the charity efforts have been more worthwhile than the money, but some of those months were alot of struggle, and it took alot to get back into traction. Not referring to any WF work in this instance BTW.

    You just have to separate the issues and balance them.
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    • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      You just have to separate the issues and balance them.
      It tough for the genuine nice guys to find that balance sometimes.

      I hear stories all the time of people going out of there way
      to help, and then losing perspective.

      It is hard enough to keep perspective running your own business,
      much less helping someone else run theirs.

      way, way back in the day, before I became involved with business
      i was a nice guy, i always thought helping others was the thing to do.
      So i did, to my own detriment.

      I pretty much evolved into a asshole as a form of self preservation.

      Now, i am older, hopefully wiser, and have eased up quite a bit.
      I am not sure if that is my true nature coming through, or i am just
      in a part of my life where it is now safe to be "nice" or "helpful"
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post


        way, way back in the day, before I became involved with business
        i was a nice guy, i always thought helping others was the thing to do.
        So i did, to my own detriment.

        Pretty much evolved into a asshole as a form of self preservation.
        I try to do that too, but then I swing too far to the asshole side and all my prosperity gets damned up, because Im not being myself anymore! lol

        I dont really know the balance yet...I see a cause and I go for it with all of my heart... then I lose my ass by taking my mind off my own business... and I become an asshole for a month who wont help anyone because Im putting out all the fires that happened in my absence.

        I understand Ken.

        We are "all or nothing" kind of people...maybe its the reason we get to tell all these cool war stories, while more conservative people dont have as much to say- because we REALLY get into our giving, and we really get into our working...

        In giving or in working we tend to be blind to anything else and put our whole self into it...

        But my problem is that Im either doing one or the other...if I get passionate about a project I dont care about anything else around me...whether its charity or making money.

        I like what you and your wife do with the soup kitchens, that may be a good outlet.

        Ps. There is something in the Bible about people wanting to reap in fields where they havent sown...

        Well, I also think that what you reap has to do with where you sow.

        Giving a warm blanket will give you a warm feeling... Giving on the Warrior forum will do that too, but inadvertantly you will also reap money because people want help in the areas of your expertise. You are planting money seeds, in a money field...

        So you can give all you want with little regard for the return, its designed to make money- this field... You sow money seeds...in a money growing field...and you reap money. Its natural.

        The field you are sowing in is the kind where money is grown, and sown and reaped... so it kind of balances itself in that sense.

        I think alot of it is where you sow, and where you expect to reap. What you sow, and what you expect to reap...

        Corn seeds only grow corn, tomatoe seeds only grow tomatoes....What kinds of seeds are you sowing, and what fields are you sowing in?

        Ps. What if you sow bad money making seeds in a field?

        They dont grow. Bad seeds dont grow...seeds with messed up DNA produce messed up plants...

        You have to sow good seed too...dont forget.

        Lets say you plant a bad telemarketing seed, and someone comes back and say I tried this and it was bull... then your seed doesnt grow- it was a bad seed.

        Lets say you give a GOOD seed, and it grows and someone pops up and says "I made money off this seed JD planted"- Then you reap!

        Had better go... Im feeling like totally GIVING myself to this post... but only certain kinds of people are interested in the underlying laws that make the systems work....most people just want to hear about systems, this seed would possibly fall on dead ground for the most part.
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    • Profile picture of the author celente
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      @ Celente and Ken,


      I think it works that way in all of life... you GIVE enough to a prospect, and they want to give you money in return.

      .
      And there you have it. Have underlined what I think is the most important aspect...and it has worked for me too john.

      Dont give away the farm, but dont give them stuff they can find in a book or down the road with joe bloggs.

      Giving ENOUGH, normally is enough for them to get on your side and hand money over.

      But Remember we are not in the game to just sit counting coins. We are in this to actually enrich lives, and help businesses and if you set out to do this, then the world will open up. That is what I have found anyway.
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by celente View Post

        And there you have it. Have underlined what I think is the most important aspect...and it has worked for me too john.

        Dont give away the farm, but dont give them stuff they can find in a book or down the road with joe bloggs.

        Giving ENOUGH, normally is enough for them to get on your side and hand money over.

        But Remember we are not in the game to just sit counting coins. We are in this to actually enrich lives, and help businesses and if you set out to do this, then the world will open up. That is what I have found anyway.
        Indeed,

        I remember reading when Allen Says wrote years ago that whatever emotion you were feeling when writing, went into your copy and into your prospects, no matter how you tried to fake around it, that energy is transferred.

        You cant shine mediocre. I know that I have tried to write things in an exciting way, when in my heart I felt mediocre...I always get mediocre results.

        When I talk about "Directory Site Profits" there is a HUGE enthusiasm inside, and people respond with HUGE enthusiasm...

        Likewise... I have found that when you try to "systematize" giving and it isnt natural...the same uncanny thing happens.

        You only get the real serious results when the return is an afterthought...or at least its not the main goal.

        Call me airy fairy, but thats how it tends to work in my life. Maybe my inward belief systems or something, but thats how it works.

        We can only tell it from our own experience. Thats how it has worked for me.


        Ps. I think the only way to systemize it is just to make sure you are in the right field, and that you have good seeds in your bag...then just go there and GIVE! Period.

        Dont worry about the harvest because nature does that when you plant a money seed in a money field.

        Growing is what seeds do by their own nature when planted in fertile ground. You dont have to think about growing a return just be in the right field with the right seeds and only think of PLANTING ("Giving").
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        • Profile picture of the author Adrian Browning
          Banned
          Originally Posted by celente View Post

          Giving ENOUGH, normally is enough for them to get on your side and hand money over.
          **Face in Palms**

          More like: "Giving" is only enough ammunition for freebie seekers to attach their bloodsucking lips to the veins of your company and drain it off all it's funds and resources

          Hey, I have nothing against charity... But you'd be hard pressed to find ANY 'successful' person (that isn't in the public eye) who shares the same beliefs as you do...

          "Giving" is all good and well, so long as you are gaining monetary reward...

          "Giving" and getting nothing back, means that you'd be better off getting a job with some unscrupulous Charity that has all of their employees on slave wages.... The insufficient pay shouldn't be a problem though - as long as you're out there "giving" :rolleyes:... that's all that counts

          It is a dog eat dog world, and as you begin to climb the rankings both in wealth and experience - it becomes overtly apparent that BUSINESS is only a game of 'Survival of the fittest'...

          I've been subjected to politics, underhanded tactics from my competitors and all out financial brawls with some of the largest firms in the world... But I am still here today, wiser, more wealthy and willing to stop at nothing!

          You can't be out there playing checkers, because you'll always come across people like myself who are playing chess... I can defeat my opposition in so many different ways that it's almost unfair...

          "Giving" is okay... I have nothing against it... But, personally, I'd rather that each one of my endeavors produced a monetary return.

          Originally Posted by celente View Post

          But Remember we are not in the game to just sit counting coins. We are in this to actually enrich lives, and help businesses and if you set out to do this, then the world will open up.
          Actually, I am in business to produce income... Otherwise I would have done something else...

          I get home late every single night because not only am I out there turning a profit, but I am constantly figuring out ways to make large amounts of money QUICKER than I did before.

          In fact, THAT is the only target I set myself... "I already know which moves to make to pull in $200,000 - BUT, can it be done 'quicker'.. " - I don't evaluate my success based on how much money I have, but instead on the speed in which I accumulate wealth...

          You can say that Steve Jobs founded and Stuck with Apple because he was "doing what he loved" and/or "making people's lives better"... But the fact will always remain - if this venture produced 0% in revenue he would have been out the door quicker than anything else..

          Profit - Income - Revenue - Wealth: This is all that matters

          Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

          make sure you are in the right field, and that you have good seeds in your bag...then just go there and GIVE! Period.

          Dont worry about the harvest because nature does that when you plant a money seed in a money field.

          Growing is what seeds do by their own nature when planted in fertile ground.
          "Money seeds"? ..."Fertile ground"? .. Seriously?

          I just got a work permit last week as I spent the entire month of September launching a Soccer Agency that I've registered in Italy.

          My main client is a very popular player and expressed to me his interest to move to a particular team in the UK... I said, but you're already on 115,000 Euro a week here, I don't know of any team that will so readily match that, you're limiting your options here.

          But his mind is set completely on transferring come January.. Why? Because he wants MORE money... He values himself and his own abilities to the point where he believes whole-heatedly that NO amount of money is TOO MUCH money... and damn it, I agree

          I mean, he could just stay with his current team who are paying us both a very handsome sum... and just "give" and "give" until one day they take it upon themselves to increase his salary... OR he can get up, go out there, and take what he has coming to him... and with someone like myself who shares his exact same ethos, he'll soon enough achieve is full earning potential...

          In a nutshell - Giving is good.. But if you get nothing in return, then all you are doing is wasting the most valuable asset that you'll ever have in life - Time.

          - Adrian
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Adrian, all Im saying is that you are in a "crafts" convention, disbursing your SEO knowledge, then you are not on fertile ground for that, you can give SEO knowledge away all day long and you are going to get little return... but if you are at a "website owners" convention... and you are giving away free info on SEO, then your booth is going to have a line a mile long leading up to it and people are going to be flocking because you are planting the right seeds in the right ground. Website owners want to know how to make their investments more effective. Crafts people dont care about SEO, you should just be talking about some new fangled knitting needle or something if you want to plant something that will grow there.

    Likewise, if you are sending out SEO mailers to a bunch knitting ole ladies then you are planting the wrong seed in the wrong field, and it wont produce money.

    If you focus on mailing an authoritative document that educates a website owner on why traditional SEO wasted his money...then you are going to get the attention of alot of guys who say "I have wasted thousands of dollars on SEO" , your solutions will be appreciated, and because you shared that knowledge you wont even have to ask for business...a certain percentage of people will contact you wanting to know about your solutions and gain more of your knowledge.

    Sharing what you know is the seed... even if all you know is a sales pitch and you are a telemarketer. The seed doesnt produce anything if you put it in your pocket and dont plant it, the seed ALSO does not produce anything if you are giving an SEO seed to a call list of retired little ole ladies, but if you share your pitch with a list of website owners with low rankings, then SOMEONE is going to want to hear more.

    Providing that your seed (pitch) is a good seed.

    Im just using sowing and reaping terminology to say the same thing about marketing that all tried and true experts are saying, only that many of them say it in less esoteric terms.

    Yes business is the survival of the fittest, but the fit GIVE more to their clients, they give their best strategies, they give results..... they give themselves to the best presentation that they can possibly muster...they GIVE themselves over to developing as a professional.

    I bought one cd set by one of my favorite prosperity teachers.... and he GAVE me for that fifty dollars, a MILLION dollars worth of information.... and I wanted to buy everything else I could. His cd set was worth so much more than 50 bucks that I felt guilty and almost wanted to send him a hundred more... and he didnt sell me a THING.... he just GAVE TO ME....and I decided to buy more for myself. Likewise, the first cd I heard of him was free.... and that free CD made me want to BUY!!

    I still buy him to this day even though not one set I have bought since then was as inspiring as the first.

    I can tell you from first hand experience in the forum here for example... When I GIVE and I am truly passionate about sharing and helping people... my pm box blows up with people begging to send me money for an hour of my time...Thats not what I do though so most of them never get that... I share with them on the forum for the most part and they get alot more here than they would an hour of coaching anyway... But Im telling you that if I wanted I could make a fulltime living just GIVING.

    So its a little too late to tell someone that its impossible to make a million dollars when they already have... and its also a little too late to tell someone "you made it because you have a silver spoon" when they know they didnt and they know they worked hard...

    Its too late to tell me and celente that giving doesnt work.

    When I was a songwriter, I had an entire crew that would not have had jobs by their own work ethic, but because I GAVE MYSELF totally and completely.... they were able to have jobs. I know the difference between them and myself was that I worked alot harder and I gave alot more of myself... and that enabled their salaries to be justified. The ole 80/20 rule, it even applies in call centers where some never make quota but the high producers keep them from getting fired.

    Giving can be all kinds of things but I have made this point 3 different ways now...

    Some people are going to hate me for saying this but I dont care...

    I have GIVEN myself to this forum so much and worked so hard to spread the word about how telemarketing can help them...that when I started not a single person was doing it, but now ten other people here make part time if not fulltime livings just talking about cold calling...

    HUNDREDS of others make fulltime livings BY cold calling itself from what has been planted... and as a result....if I ever went broke there are 100 people on this forum who would give me a fat salary to come work for their company... If I were a salary kind of guy...

    I have 1,000 people that I could say "Hey I need a thousand bucks" and they would loan it to me...

    I can put out a WSO tomorrow and make an extra 5 grand in a week whenever I want to...

    Its because I have tirelessly planted seeds, most of which had nothing to do with a return, but rather just truthfully helping people with answers.

    On another note, Allen GAVE himself to his vision of the Warrior forum, and he GAVE himself to the PEOPLE of the Warrior forum, and now a half a million people have his back and would drive a thousand miles to help him and consider it an honor if he were ever stuck on the side of the road.

    Here's the thing about working hard...its about "giving" yourself over to success.

    People who dont have enough dont give enough.... they sit around and watch tv and they give themselves to nothing...they only want to take in, and they dont want to give anything out...

    You have to give...

    Whether you are successful or not Adrian, there was a time, if you are, when everyone else was saying "What can success principles do for me"... while you as a successful business person, were saying "How can totally give myself over to success and humble myself to become the best in every area..."

    Humble means ,. not being too prideful to work and develop in this sense.

    Not everyone is attracted to esoteric angles on things... I understand, even more people will be put off my my example of my own giving at the WF and what I said about it... I dont care, Im "GIVING".

    Im giving you the truth.

    Giving is all kinds of things. However, if in fact you do make MILLION DOLLAR DEALS... then yes the rules may be different in that stage, I dont know...I have never made 70 million dollars in a year...but even WARRIORS who make those kinds of deals dont hang out at the Warrior forum much after they get to that level...So the people who ARE present need to learn what we know about THIS level, and Im spewin it as authentic as it comes, even if it offends some people.

    Others will "get it".

    I also want to say that I am learning to understand your style, and yes I see the that you are smiling a little bit interacting here...and you arent grinch all the way to the bone... but you are trying to make your points the way you make them, and I was honest when I told you I hated it....Im also honest when I tell you I appreciate it. This is all authentic, and I see you also growing with us here an inch at a time, and even LIKING it....

    Its hard to stay in character when you are cracking a semi smile....but I appreciate the semi smile, and I have applauded what I appreciate. Dont ever think it isnt genuine...good or bad.

    Now back to the show ladies and gentleman "Adrian does not care, this is all rubbish talk to him"!

    How bout those whitesox...?

    Btw, here is my fave teacher.... He flaunts his prosperity in the most arrogant way....but he's nice about it, and thus people actually learn from it...because his way of flaunting it inspires, as opposed to demeaning.

    Like yourself he reminds us "Why are you settling for less?" , he even makes you feel like your couple of hundred thousand dollars is NOTHING...but we respond better because it seems like he cares, and we can learn from him because in the end it uplifts and GIVES us love energy. We dont feel like a loser, we rather feel like someone who could WIN!

    Lastly, yes I know Im bumping your thread, and yes I know we arent supposed to feed trolls...but if Paul Myers doesnt think you are total troll, then i have to give at least some consideration to that, because he didnt just fall off the truck yesterday...

    If I bump your thread and you sell a wso and it isnt from real life experience, i can at very least say that I can see your posts putting more zero's behind peoples dreams... You are making them think bigger....and if a WSO was total rubbish but a person go that much out of it... then it was worth the money.

    If non of your experience was true, I can honestly say you are increasing peoples awareness that they can go higher up the food chain and think in bigger amounts. I buy that part.

    Also I can say I bumped this thread (sorry I have to justify it to myself a bit. I apologize) because I had something sincere to share and meaningful to say... So either way, here's a genuine , non fabricated, bump for your thread. Cheers.

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  • Profile picture of the author globalpro
    The sad part about the OP's 'message' is while their are good points made, the self-absorbed attitude that it's presented with will keep people from seeing/hearing it. Just the insinuation that people that don't feel the push to 'win' at all cost are anything less is insulting to say the least.

    In your posts you point out the drive to be successful financially, but is that how you truly define success. Success to each individual comes differently and it's not always about the money.

    A good case in point would be the direction that some of the world's richest people, i.e. Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, etc., have in taking their fortune and 'giving back'. Why? Because they know it's not about the money, but what you do with it.

    "Money seeds"? ..."Fertile ground"? .. Seriously?
    John's reference to 'sowing and reaping' is not only a scriptural 'law', but a universal one. Look at the people that teach the 'law of attraction'. Same rule, but the Bible had it first.

    I will add one more to consider.

    'What does it profit a man to gain the whole world, buy lose his soul'.

    But putting all that aside, and the points you do make are to be considered, here's the part I am having a hard time getting past.

    This:

    I don't chime in much. But, I am looking for you on the web. Adrian Browning Seabook, TX yields nothing.
    and this:

    What's the name of one of your businesses and why does a Texan speak the King's English?
    The reason it's hard is this response you made:

    I just got a work permit last week as I spent the entire month of September launching a Soccer Agency that I've registered in Italy.

    My main client is a very popular player and expressed to me his interest to move to a particular team in the UK... I said, but you're already on 115,000 Euro a week here, I don't know of any team that will so readily match that, you're limiting your options here.
    Since we don't do 'work permits' in the US, it makes me think you are in the UK. Not a big deal, but a red flag to credibility.

    I "do" think he is trying to fill the shoes of the old "rich jerk", and so I dont think he is probably really this on a personal level...I think he is trying to fill a niche.
    If this is the case, then it's working well, but even Kelly, aka 'Rich Jerk' realized it can/will only work for so long, so maybe there is still hope.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by globalpro View Post

      If this is the case, then it's working well, but even Kelly, aka 'Rich Jerk' realized it can/will only work for so long, so maybe there is still hope.
      Have you ever heard the words "Pygmalion Project" John? With as much potential as there is under all the garbage, this may be a worthwhile one in the end. Who knows? If not, then its a flash in the pan and it will be over as quick as it came.

      Originally Posted by globalpro View Post


      In your posts you point out the drive to be successful financially, but is that how you truly define success. Success to each individual comes differently and it's not always about the money.
      In my life at this moment , there are things I would trade going broke and being penniless forever in exchange for. Money isnt everything, especially if you cant share it with the people you want to.
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      • Profile picture of the author connorbringas
        This is a pretty depressing post by OP, but it is the reality of the game.
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  • Profile picture of the author flnz400
    Alright so which is it, 70m/year or 200k/mo? (200 x 12 = ???not 70 in my city???)

    Oh wait, you said "transactionSSSSSSS" what was I thinking.

    I've been doing this for a number of years and make good money, but if I were making anywhere close to mid sevens, I think you'd be hard pressed to find me posting here. (Haven't posted much in years as it is) I'd be working with consultants and my team figuring out how to scale or improve retention on what we'd been doing already, not tralalala'ing the WF contributing and scouting for new tactics. While this is a great message, personally I think you're full of shit. But, this is the Internet.

    Anywho, for the sake of keeping the thread worthwhile, this is a good point. The severity of this issue in my town has gotten to the point where I straight up tell prospects where to go if they want cheap. I have a list, and openly communicate it. This is abnormal, most companies/salesman want to close the sale and would never recommend another company. Good times.
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  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    I've mostly stopped posting in this forum, largely due to the flatulence and such.

    Since August of last year, I embarked on a new venture - exercising all of the things I used to discuss about getting bigger deals, etc...

    That venture is a "rollup strategy" where you take several small cooperative strategic companies in a similar space and combine them to create a large one. No single entity has to become a massive homerun, but the combined group will do $15-20 million in sales by the end of next year - which is the timeframe we will start looking for an acquisition to exit in the neighborhood of $50-80 million.

    No, I am not the majority shareholder (which is one of those little wisdoms you learn over time), but I am the point person in putting the entire deal in place. It's my deal from top to bottom.

    I would venture to say that of all the self-aggrandizing that goes on in this forum, there are very few people who will have a genuine high 8 figure acquisiton under their belt in 2-3 years that will net them low 8 figures personally in cash on exit.

    All of the strategies and value-add that I have brought to the table is nothing more than a very strategic application of the very marketing (and internet marketing) rabble that gets bantered about here.

    The difference is, I'm not promoting a $19 ebook.

    I don't have time to debate whether or not you should be selling what to who. I have a big company to run.

    Oh, and this post contains one of the most important but also damning to the WSO sellers piece of information.

    Stop selling marketing tricks to people and go use the marketing knowledge to buy and grow bigger companies as a strategic advantage that positions you in a linchpin position. (aka practice what you preach)
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by MichaelHiles View Post

      (aka practice what you preach)
      Michael, I have been practicing what I preach for twenty years. And as much as I respect you interjection here, you have no more proof of your earnings being posted than anyone else posting here, but I appreciate your input.
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      • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
        Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

        Michael, I have been practicing what I preach for twenty years. And as much as I respect you interjection here, you have no more proof of your earnings being posted than anyone else posting here, but I appreciate your input.
        I don't need to prove my earnings. I just enjoy them. I'm not selling an ebook that requires such a thing. In fact, I'm not selling anything (to this forum) - that is, unless you're running a large SharePoint farm and need managed services or a migration effort. Maybe some user adoption training for your entire employee base. I can get that price to maybe $200-300 a seat if you've got 1000 to train... but only until the end of the year. Then 2013 prices will take a bit of a hike due to demand.

        On a side note thought John, you would appreciate the fact we do have a boiler room for telemarketing sales -- but only as a result of the inbound leads from our online demand gen efforts. Closing rate is pretty high actually - 60-70% We don't cold call people asking them if they'd like to buy some SharePoint.
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        • Profile picture of the author John Durham
          Originally Posted by MichaelHiles View Post

          I don't need to prove my earnings. I just enjoy them. I'm not selling an ebook that requires such a thing. In fact, I'm not selling anything (to this forum) - that is, unless you're running a large SharePoint farm and need managed services or a migration effort. Maybe some user adoption training for your entire employee base. I can get that price to maybe $200-300 a seat if you've got 1000 to train... but only until the end of the year. Then 2013 prices will take a bit of a hike due to demand.
          again, I read your blog, I appreciate your input, and I know you gain alot of fans by putting down the idea of listening to people who sell WSO's... I know you believe that being extreme will get you one part of a crowd where being middle of the road will get you no loyalty, and I know alot of people follow you because of your extreme message that wso sellers and people who sell for low prices are at the bottom of the totem pole...

          However, objectively speaking all of that talk still doesnt make you any more legit than anyone else you are pointing to...

          In fact, posting your bank statements wouldnt either around here... the only thing any of us have to go on is the merit of each others dialogue, and mine is clearly seasoned in my field, you cant fake that, so Im not personally offended, however, again, objectively...

          Pointing fingers at WSO sellers is no indication that anyone is who they say they are, it just passionately appeals to all of those who feel the same way.

          I think a point can be made without devaluing the practice of selling WSO's.

          Many times we say "I dont do this, because Im not a bottom feeder like everyone else... but inwardly its really because we dont think anyone would BUY it...".

          Im not saying thats the case with you, but Im a person who does sell wso's here and there and YOU know that, so I DO take the comment personally, and I know that my selling a WSO does not take away from 20 years of hardcore experience doing millions of dollars in sales... and I also know that YOUR pointing fingers at people who write reports doesnt automatically qualify you as a person who is successful...

          It only rally's support from others who hate WSO sellers. And again , I read your blog- YOU KNOW THAT FULL WELL!

          Honestly , whether I believe you are a millionaire or not, I DO believe that I could read forbes everyweek and use it as inspiration to churn out the same kinds of posts you just made with NO business experience at all.

          Much love brother...

          BTW, having a username that doesnt sell wso's, doesnt mean you arent selling WSO's either for that matter.

          -John
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  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    John there will always be people who make $10,000 a year and always people who make $10,000,000 per year.

    The difference is what makes you happy. In the end that's all that matters. We all have individual paths to walk.

    If you're happy selling WSOs, so be it! You're a seasoned telemarketing guy, and while I've never bought any WSO from you, I would hope your experience translates into genuine value for someone... whatever that value might be. Some buy WSOs as a form of business fantasy. Some are looking for real insight. Whatever. It's not my place to judge anyone on an individual basis. I have an opinion about a lot of what goes on in the Warrior Forum, and sadly, there's as much or more education in buying a $9 basic business book for Kindle from Amazon as what get's tossed around as "premium opportunity" on the warrior forum. Not pointing my finger at you or anyone specifically. Just in general, the overall level of value and quality is poor at best across the median.

    What has overshadowed this forum in the past year or so has been the adamant insistance of what amounts to flawed or mediochre business models as "surefire paths to wealth". There's not a lot of discussion about meaningful business development or real paths to real wealth. It's all about the shuck and jive. It wasn't always that way. But that's cool. If shuck and jive is what people are into, then have at it. Far be it for me to change the status quo... which is why I only poke in here on a very limited basis. There's other venues for business development conversation - especially with the explosion in interest around the startup community (where people are actually creating solutions with value instead of promoting me-too concepts on the back side of a technology curve with a dwindling market overall).

    My statement's weren't directed at you. They weren't directed at anyone at all. They were as much a pure response to the original post as anything... with some free form thought processes tossed in as they were inspired from within.

    Nobody here is required to consider my words any more or less than a "LIMITED QUANTITY ON THIS EBOOK BUY NOW!!" headline on a WSO posting. It's all just words and ideas. Buyer beware.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by MichaelHiles View Post


      The difference is what makes you happy. In the end that's all that matters. We all have individual paths to walk.
      .
      Okay Michael WOOP here it is...another instance of using psychological manipulation.

      Reduce one who sells WSO's down to one who "Thats all they do and they are happy with that chump change", not by saying anything with merit but by communicating through implications..

      Edit: Just LOL. Im tired of this. It was fun.
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      • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
        Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

        Okay Michael WOOP here it is...another instance of using psychological manipulation.

        Reduce one who sells WSO's down to one who "Thats all they do and they are happy with that chump change", not by saying anything with merit but by communicating through implications..

        Edit: Just LOL. Im tired of this. It was fun.
        Is this where I should call you a quitter?
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        • Profile picture of the author John Durham
          Originally Posted by MichaelHiles View Post

          Is this where I should call you a quitter?
          Yup but only cuz I sprained my ankle yesterday...you know.

          Next time Michael Hiles...Next time!

          By the way I want to tell you ahead of time that if Jason Kanigan sells one more WSO Im quitting next week!
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  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    So you disagree with my statement

    John there will always be people who make $10,000 a year and always people who make $10,000,000 per year.

    The difference is what makes you happy. In the end that's all that matters. We all have individual paths to walk.

    If you're happy selling WSOs, so be it!
    I'm not sure what else to say here. You disagreed with what I said, that's cool.
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  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    LOL... he's next on the troll list.
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