Yelp reviewer blasts business, gets sued for $750,000

11 years ago

Wow that's crazy. I didn't see anything wrong with her review. She has the right to free speech. If he did a crap job, then he deserves the loss of business.

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iAmNameLess 11 years ago

Originally Posted by Rob28x

Wow that's crazy. I didn't see anything wrong with her review. She has the right to free speech. If he did a crap job, then he deserves the loss of business.

Except there is this thing with free speech that you don't really have freedom of speech if it violates another person's freedoms. You can't slander, or commit libel or defamation when it didn't happen. THAT is the problem with the review.

EVEN IF you DID do a crappy job, there are things in a review that can not be said.

A friend of mine has his own business, he has also kind of been a mentor to me, he just successfully sued for $50,000 because of a review, that was actually true lol. The reason why, was because the review was on a consumer complaint site and the agreement was business to business, not business to consumer.

Lots of crazy things happen... a country where we have all these "freedoms" end up violating someone elses freedoms.
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Tsnyder

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Rob28x

Wow that's crazy. I didn't see anything wrong with her review. She has the right to free speech. If he did a crap job, then he deserves the loss of business.

Nothing? Really? She accused him of criminal activity
without offering a shred of proof. Even if she had evidence
she doesn't have the right to make that accusation in public.
She has the right to file a police complaint and shut up
while they do their job.

She really doesn't even have the right to state affirmatively
that a poor quality job was done. That's not fact, that's opinion.
Wording is everything... if you're going to say negative things about
people in public you better make it clear that it's just your opinion.

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abbot

Banned 11 years ago

I'm not taking sides...simply breaking down what you said

Originally Posted by Tsnyder

Nothing? Really? She accused him of criminal activity without offering a shred of proof. Even if she had evidence
she doesn't have the right to make that accusation in public.

Yes she does. She can say whatever she wants in PUBLIC

She has the right to file a police complaint and shut up
while they do their job.

Police would not do anything...you have to file a motion for complaint with the local court district.

"Their JOB" has nothing to do with business legal matters..

She really doesn't even have the right to state affirmatively
that a poor quality job was done.

Yes she does..

That's not fact, that's opinion.
Wording is everything... if you're going to say negative things about
people in public you better make it clear that it's just your opinion.

I would like to point out to you that this is a REVIEW website. It's based on USER REVIEWS. OBVIOUSLY a review is an opinion. I just want to clear that up because you keep referring to the word "public"

Shes being sued because of what she said on a REVIEW site not in PUBLIC. These hold two completely different service agreements and two completely different sets of laws.

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Tsnyder

11 years ago

Originally Posted by abbot

I'm not taking sides...simply breaking down what you said

Yes she does. She can say whatever she wants in PUBLIC

Police would not do anything...you have to file a motion for complaint with the local court district.

"Their JOB" has nothing to do with business legal matters..

Yes she does..

I would like to point out to you that this is a REVIEW website. It's based on USER REVIEWS. OBVIOUSLY a review is an opinion. I just want to clear that up because you keep referring to the word "public"

Shes being sued because of what she said on a REVIEW site not in PUBLIC. These hold two completely different service agreements and two completely different sets of laws.

You clearly don't know what you're talking about... not a single
thing you posted holds water. I'll be happy to break it down phrase
by phrase if you like but I see no need to hijack the thread just to
correct your misinformation.

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abbot

Banned 11 years ago

Originally Posted by Tsnyder

You clearly don't know what you're talking about... not a single
thing you posted holds water. I'll be happy to break it down phrase
by phrase if you like but I see no need to hijack the thread just to
correct your misinformation.

Oh yeah? Are you an attorney? paralegal?

There is not such thing as "holding water" in court...It's called LAWS. There are many issues that come up in court that "hold water", yet are thrown out. Just because something makes sense to YOU does NOT mean that it's legally accurate.

I worked as a business paralegal for 5 years. My family owns a civil litigation/business law firm. I sit in court every week and watch as business owners just like yourself attempt to outwit consumers AND practice professionals.

Like I said, just because something SEEMS right to YOU does not mean that it's lawful OR unlawful.

Disagree with me..I don't care. But don't say that I don't know what I'm talking about.

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edman78 11 years ago

I'll chime in on this because I am an electrician...

You can say things like "he did poor work" which someone stated earlier is just an opinion. A person who is not a contractor does not have the knowledge to know what is poor work and what is good work.

For example if I installed 2 switches... on one I used the stab locks in the back to connect the wires and the other I hooked the wires to the terminals... would the customer know what is the poor and what is the proper way to do it? No because they have no experience in the trade and can only form an opinion.

As far as making claims jewelry was stolen that is a wild claim and I would also sue. I guarantee he did lose business and even if he does win the lawsuit his name is already done. If he is the good guy in this case then he is def doing the right thing.

It's funny I read replies from customers saying "wow I would never hire a contractor that is going to sue me If I give a bad review" This is not a bad review it is a slanderous review there is a difference. I know if we had a review site created for contractors to post about trouble customers these same people would sue us in a heartbeat.
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Tsnyder

11 years ago

Originally Posted by abbot

Oh yeah? Are you an attorney? paralegal?

There is not such thing as "holding water" in court...It's called LAWS. There are many issues that come up in court that "hold water", yet are thrown out. Just because something makes sense to YOU does NOT mean that it's legally accurate.

I worked as a business paralegal for 5 years. My family owns a civil litigation/business law firm. I sit in court every week and watch as business owners just like yourself attempt to outwit consumers AND practice professionals.

Like I said, just because something SEEMS right to YOU does not mean that it's lawful OR unlawful.

Disagree with me..I don't care. But don't say that I don't know what I'm talking about.

You can stomp your feet and whine all you like but you're
bluffing. You don't know what you're talking about.

So... since you like to shoot off your mouth lets break it
down point by point.

First, you say that the woman has the right to say whatever
she wants in public. You say that the police wouldn't be involved
because it's a business legal matter. You say the plaintiff would
have to file... I particularly like this one... "a motion for complaint."

1. The part of my original post you referenced is a criminal matter,
not civil. You know the difference, right? The woman alleges that
the contractor stole jewelry from her. Her immediate action is to file
a complaint with local police.

2. The woman... nor anyone else... has the absolute right to say whatever
they want in public. Surely where you allegedly studied they gave you the
classic example of yelling fire in a crowded theater. You may also NOT state
opinions as if they are facts when that information serves to harm someone
else's interests. If you were right the contractor's suit wouldn't have survived
a motion to dismiss. Obviously, the judge found merit in the contractor's
complaint and allowed the case to move forward.

3. There is no such thing as a "motion for complaint". You made that up
in an attempt to sound like you have some knowledge of the legal process.
You clearly don't. I doubt you even know what a motion is, what it should
contain or what generally accompanies it in the filing.

Finally... and this is my favorite... you wrote this...

I would like to point out to you that this is a REVIEW website. It's based on USER REVIEWS. OBVIOUSLY a review is an opinion. I just want to clear that up because you keep referring to the word "public"

Shes being sued because of what she said on a REVIEW site not in PUBLIC. These hold two completely different service agreements and two completely different sets of laws.

Seriously? ROFLMFAO!! So... Yelp isn't a website offering public access?
Please... please... tell us all... what 2 different sets of law are involved here?

A review is not OBVIOUSLY an opinion. Did you study any English grammar
on your way to becoming a wannabe legal scholar? Do you actually know the
difference, grammatically, between an opinion and a statement of fact? We often
call these declarative statements... surely you're familiar with the term. Did you
read the statements made by the woman? Obviously not or you'd know she
stated these accusations as if they were facts, not simply her opinion.

You're way out of your league here... run along.

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iAmNameLess

11 years ago

Originally Posted by abbot

I'm not taking sides...simply breaking down what you said

Yes she does. She can say whatever she wants in PUBLIC

I would like to point out to you that this is a REVIEW website. It's based on USER REVIEWS. OBVIOUSLY a review is an opinion. I just want to clear that up because you keep referring to the word "public"

Shes being sued because of what she said on a REVIEW site not in PUBLIC. These hold two completely different service agreements and two completely different sets of laws.

The ONLY difference, is whether it is a matter of SLANDER, or LIBEL..Either way it is defamation.

Since it is a WRITTEN review(Libel not slander), it is much easier than a typical slander lawsuit. It would be libel which you can sue not only for damages, but POTENTIAL damages. The number of views a listing receives, that can be a potential sale, you take the average sale X the amount of views the listing receives, and those are the potential damages.

If it was slander... just being spoken about in public or whatever, you have a more difficult case to PROVE the amount of potential damages and that there was slander anyway.

Even better, is that you can have in a contract a clause that prevents public disclosure of private facts. So even if something in the review is true, there could be grounds to sue for damages, but that's kind of open ended with privacy law from my understanding.

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SirThomas

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Rob28x

She has the right to free speech.

That's true. And he's got the right to sue her for that speech. Happens every day.

If he did a crap job, then he deserves the loss of business.

Really? If she believes, he did a crap job, she should sue him for damages. By accusing him of theft, she obviously wanted to hurt him and he's right to sue her for that. What else is he supposed to do? Let it go?

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edman78

11 years ago

Originally Posted by SirThomas

That's true. And he's got the right to sue her for that speech. Happens every day.

Really? If she believes, he did a crap job, she should sue him for damages. By accusing him of theft, she obviously wanted to hurt him and he's right to sue her for that. What else is he supposed to do? Let it go?

Totally agree. Theft is a serious claim. A bad review of poor work is one thing the guy could still get work but a claim he is a thief would ruin you. Being charged with theft can be a felony depending on the value of the items.

I don't believe 99% of reviews on the internet anyway they remind me of the most of the crap on this site...

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liveformusic

11 years ago

I read something recently that said review sites and Reputation Management are still a little bit like the wild west. Verification of facts, accountability, freedom of speech, and libel issues are all swirling around in the hopper. As the search engines are factoring in social proof and customer testimonials more every day, there will have to be a filtering system in place eventually before reviews are allowed to be posted. Right now, it's pretty impossible to identify legitimate reviews from the vindictive, poison pen stuff..

I have no idea how this will be accomplished, but it will be interesting to watch this situation develop.

I tell both business clients as well as friends, if you're posting a review online, you'd better be sure that what you say is true, because I think from here on in, Big Brother is going to be watching......

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sandalwood 11 years ago

Remember, there is a lawyer trying to make his name and rep mgt seems to be ripe for a shyster to make some noise and get a ton of clients. It is easy pickings for the lawyer. After all, he gets paid regardless of outcome.

This is one of the reasons I have a law firm on retainer. Any kind of goofy crap like this and they get a copy of it immediately.

Tom
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Aaron Doud

11 years ago

I would love to know the truth because reading her review it does appear she was out to get him. Honestly makes her sound like a problem customer.

I suspect he may win but in the end he would have been better focusing on getting good reviews or starting a new business (clean slate) which companies do all the time.

All suing did was bring it to the attention of more people and brought his name into it.

BTW this is another reason why I think your business should never have your name in it. That way if the worst happens you can end it and start a new one.

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Cecil Dee

11 years ago

I read that story yesterday and on the surface the suit seemed baseless but who knows. As Iamnameless points out, for every one freedom, there's probably 2 or 3 loopholes. I'll try to follow this and see how it pans out.

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javarog

11 years ago

I have a friend that has a heating and air business, he had a bad review on yelp and he knows it came from a competitor,, after many tries he finally got in contact with yelp,, they refused to do anything so he told them that his attorney would be in contact and they told him to bring it on.. Its hard to say what liability yelp has until some one actually sues and wins.

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xlfutur1

11 years ago

This could become a real problem as more and more businesses rely on these review sites to establish a reputation. It is so easy for a competitor(s) to post a review that is blatantly false just to screw them.

These review sites need to have the ability for the business owner to respond to the review. (not sure if Yelp or Angie's list does or not) A good response can help explain what actually happened and that could go a long way in having potential customers take the bad review with a grain of salt, especially if its surrounded by good ones.

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Hesster

11 years ago

I see ads on Craigslist constantly soliciting people to write paid Yelp reviews. There's no way I would trust anything on that site.

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Yelp reviewer blasts business, gets sued for $750,000

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