What Are Tie Downs? How Do You Use Them In Your Sales Pitches?

129 replies
I posted a thread Earlier that outlined a few techniques for closing, and one of them was "Tie Downs".

Another poster reminded me (Thanks Misterme) that tie downs are so important that the subject really shouldn't be skimmed, or talked about loosely, its something that deserves to be talked about specifically, and fully, as a stand alone topic.

We have threads on answering rebuttals and other specific techniques...this one is a good one too!

For those who dont know:

Tie downs are sort of a way of getting "pre-committments" throughout your pitch.

The sales person gets the customer to agree to little things along the way that later its hard for them to renig on when it comes down to the close. Making for more natural, easy closes.

For example:

"It looks like you dont currently have a company logo for us to use on your site design, and so I guess you are going to need us to design one for you, is that correct Bob?"


When Bob says "yes", he just committed to something.

If you get him to commit enough times in your pitch, to enough different little things, then it will be hard for him to say "no" at the close; specifically, because he would have to "take back his own word", at closing time, to suddenly say he doesnt want all the things he clearly said he wanted throughout the pitch.

It takes a person being a little "assumptive" in their style to get these tie downs from customer, and being assumptive is something that every good salesperson needs to have the ability to do.

As comfortable as you will get with it later, it honestly takes breaking out of your comfort zone a little to get started using them, and get into the habit, and feels a bit unnatural at first to use tie downs, but once you have done it a few times its like a piece of cake and will make your whole style more effective, and more importantly, you will close more sales.

For anyone really interested in developing as a sales person, this thread should be ultra valuable, and really will take your sales to the next level!

My idea here is to create a thread of concentrated tie downs, not necessary strictly "Come over here and check out my training videos" answers, but I would hope that contributors offer something to the thread itself, directly, so we can have a concentrated resource on this subject. Please feel free to embed training videos into the thread itself if you wish.

Lets make a concentrated , relevant thread on the subject of "Tie Downs".

To open this subject up for specific discussion, in its own deserving right, because it is SOOO valuable to learn,

"What are your best tie downs?"

This ought to be fun and very valuable for anyone learning sales.

-John
#downs #pitches #sales #tie
  • Profile picture of the author Liz Morgan
    I call this "trial closing" myself. Milestone commitments to get the prospect in a positive frame of mind and to say "yes" as much as possible.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7650366].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by Liz Morgan View Post

      I call this "trial closing" myself. Milestone commitments to get the prospect in a positive frame of mind and to say "yes" as much as possible.
      Excellent! Perhaps your name for it even opens up the meaning MORE.

      I have heard it called that as well.

      Please expound!

      I really like the way you worded this! Any examples of trial closes you use frequently?

      -John

      Ps. "Milestone Commitments" is awesome too.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7650372].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author midasman09
      Banned
      I've been a "person-to-person" sales guy most of my career. I started a Burglar Alarm biz from scratch simply by walking in and asking to see the owner....showing him my "Pitch-Book" and going thru my "Submarine" presentation>

      A Sub has compartments so that if a compartment gets hit, access to that compartment is shut off.

      In my Presentations...I go thru "compartments"....closing each compartment I go thru until I come to the "Price" compartment where I "close off that compartment" by asking;

      "OTHER THAN PRICE...IS THERE ANY REASON WHY WE CAN'T DO BUSINESS....NOW?"

      If my prospect asks a question like, "Well...I don't understand X" or "What about Y?"

      I answer the question and go back to MY "Tie-down"...Other Than Price is their any other Reason why we can't get going on this...today?

      My goal is to "CLOSE EACH COMPARTMENT so that my prospect CAN'T bring up an objection WITHOUT LOSING FACE....or realize he's a "LIAR"!

      Ohhh....my first compartment when I meet the "Check-Writer" is when I first meet a prospect;
      "Hi there Mr Jones, I have a great new idea for bringing in more Diners to your restaurant....do you make the Final Decisions or would you have to check with someone else?"

      Now....if Mr Biz Owner doesn't answer that question to MY satisfaction, I don't spend any more time with him. I do NOT want to give my spiel and when I finish he says..."Hey! This looks terrific! I've got to run this by (My Wife, Guru, Partner etc)

      Sure....even though the guy LIES to me and tells me, "Yup! The BUCK Stops HERE!" and when it comes "Closing" time he hits me with a "STALL"....I make him "Sweat" a bit so he KNOWS that I KNOW that, he Lied to me.

      Anyway....I use many sales and closing techniques and....one of my best has been, at Closing Time, when a prospect has lied to me and says, "Looks Good. I'll run it by my Guru (wife, partner, etc)....I look at him somewhat stunned, pause and say; "Hey! That's great Mr Prospect, you didn't tell me you'd have to "Run This By Your Guru"! However, I'm writing this down on my Order Form; "If Guru say NO, this order is cancelled! So....you can make a check out to Don Alm and if your Guru wants to cancel...just let me know and I'll give you a Refund, No Questions Asked....Fair Enough?" (What's NOT Fair about that?

      Most of the time this is just a "Stall" (Stalls are for Horses!) And, if there REALLY is somone he has to check with, (Let's say it's his silent partner or wife) Here's how the conversation goes; Partner says; "Anything happen today John? Not much. Some guy stopped by and showed me a new way to get more Diners from local Hotels and I had the plumber come by to fix a leak)

      I've closed MANY, MANY deals with these techniques. Sales is just a form of "Persuasion"!

      Don Alm....Master Persuader
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7650496].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author DJL
    "You do want fries with that, yes?"
    Signature

    None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.
    --Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, Elective Affinities (1809)

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7650412].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    @ Midas Man

    Great post!

    Yes I remember waaaay back in sales training many moons ago they taught us to use this line:

    "OTHER THAN PRICE...IS THERE ANY REASON WHY WE CAN'T DO BUSINESS....NOW?"

    Classic!

    And it still works today, there is a reason they taught it, because its proven. YOU GOTTA BE WILLING TO LOCK EM DOWN!

    Thanks for the reminder and the great contribution. Compartmentalizing is indeed a cool way of thinking about it!

    -John

    So what are some more tie downs guys? I just want to be the narrator on this one!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7650644].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author abbot
      Banned
      My cousin is a dating counselor or "pickup artist" if you will. Basically he offers coaching programs to other guys looking to pick up women. Pretty lucrative business model actually.

      It's funny...I hear him talk on the phone to his 'clients' often. And I find the similarities between selling and picking up women to be very interesting. Because if you think about it...picking up women is virtually SELLING yourself to women.

      Just last week he was once again on the phone with a client. Their topic was "assumptive persuasion".

      This is a physiological manipulation tactic that puts the consumer's brain into a imaginary state. For guys looking for a date; he was explaining the importance of linking YOU AND HER together in a given situation.

      The example he used was: You're at the bar, and start talking to this pretty girl for the first time. Here is an example of "assumptive persuasion"

      "So...Here is what's going to happen. You are going to give me your number AND tell me what your favorite type of food is. I need to know this for when I take you out on our first date."

      Though it sounds corny, it takes the pressure off both you AND her. It also takes away the thought that a guy is hitting on her and puts her into a more relaxed state because she is no longer waiting for him to 'make his move'.

      I do the same thing when speaking to leads. By simply changing the way you phrase a particular sentence, can trigger emotions in the brain.

      "So when(not if) you invest (not buy, not purchase) in search engine marketing with my company the first step will be blah blah blah

      I'm going to send you monthly reports for the first 3 months. After that(this subliminally tells them that this will be a long term investment) I will send you a traffic report every two weeks, unless you request a weekly report".

      I also use the term "I want";

      "Once we are 3 months into your search engine marketing campaign, I want to also add a E-mail marketing package to capture as much traffic as possible."

      By doing this you are sort of prepping them for a future upgrade. In 6 months they will be much easier to sell this package to since you warmed them up.

      I know this may not necessarily be a good example of tie downs but these small things make all the difference over time. By phrasing your terms that puts YOU and THEM in a situation TOGETHER it makes it much harder for them to say no when you pull out a contract.

      I also believe it shows assertiveness, which business owners LOVE.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7650723].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by abbot View Post


        "So when(not if) you invest (not buy, not purchase) in search engine marketing with my company the first step will be blah blah blah
        The prospect is following along saying in his mind "Okay...okay..." and on some level he is committing.

        Enough lines like that and he is fully committed by the end of the close.

        You have painted the whole picture in his mind of being your customer throughout your pitch by including him in the picture assumptively, and it looks good.

        That's another great subject "Painting pictures". A long ways back I remember a sales manager standing over me, monitoring my calls, coaching along in the back ground "paint a picture John, paint a picture...".

        Great post! Thanks!

        BTW,

        Wish I would have applied sales techniques to hunting women when I was younger, I would have had even more fun!

        Yeah it would work the same way, it's all sales.

        -John
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7650762].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author misterme
    By definition, a tie down is a type of *question* that seeks to obtain a "yes" as a response. So you only ask the questions you know the answer to. You use it after you've investigated what the needs are. And that way you'll ask questions they can only say yes to.

    Say you've ascertained the prospect wants the widget in black. There are three ways you can use tie downs:

    It can be used for trial closes ("So we're doing this in black then?").
    You can also use it to build value ("And the black looks really great doesn't it?").
    You can also use it to summarize key points ("And didn't you say you liked it in black?").

    "OTHER THAN PRICE...IS THERE ANY REASON WHY WE CAN'T DO BUSINESS....NOW?"
    When it begins with "other than..." it's not really a tie down. Oh you can say it's tying them down in a way, but really what you're doing there is "isolating," checking to see if there are any other objections, to either flush them out now, or to make sure there aren't any. A tie down for "IS THERE ANY REASON WHY WE CAN'T DO BUSINESS....NOW?" would be more like, "And if the price works for you, this is something we're going to do now, is that right?"

    I made a $41,000 sale once saying just that.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7650935].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by misterme View Post

      By definition, a tie down is a type of *question* that seeks to obtain a "yes" as a response. So you only ask the questions you know the answer to. You use it after you've investigated what the needs are. And that way you'll ask questions they can only say yes to.

      Say you've ascertained the prospect wants the widget in black. There are three ways you can use tie downs:

      It can be used for trial closes ("So we're doing this in black then?").
      You can also use it to build value ("And the black looks really great doesn't it?").
      You can also use it to summarize key points ("And didn't you say you liked it in black?").

      When it begins with "other than..." it's not really a tie down. Oh you can say it's tying them down in a way, but really what you're doing there is "isolating," checking to see if there are any other objections, to either flush them out now, or to make sure there aren't any. A tie down for "IS THERE ANY REASON WHY WE CAN'T DO BUSINESS....NOW?" would be more like, "And if the price works for you, this is something we're going to do now, is that right?"

      I made a $41,000 sale once saying just that.
      I think we know who the tie down king is here!

      I lay my hawg lasso down before you sir!

      I opened up the subject because I thought it would be good to talk about, but Misterme is proving to be the maestro of tie downs.

      Frankly the more concisely you do it, and the more perfectly you execute it (text book) the more effective it is.

      Often people are afraid to do them tightly so they do them loosely, which is good, but not nearly as good as doing them text book perfect, which is very powerful.

      Misterme, obviously has mastered the text book perfect execution of tie downs, and recognizes sloppiness in an instant. I'm sure that your telemarketers are managed tightly and operate like machines, which is awesome!

      Thanks for coming.

      -John
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7651027].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
    if i show you how to do that, would you be ready to start today?

    correct me if i am wrong, this is exactly what you need, isn't it?

    if i can take your basic concept and show you how to improve it,
    how soon would you need me to get started?

    ---

    My tie downs are rather dynamic, i don't have a set of pithy remarks in queue
    I do have some i use often, but to be honest the tightest, strongest tie downs
    I say are the ones based purely on the conversation I am having at the moment.

    ---

    Since where talking tie downs. Any one here use reverse tie downs?

    Very similar to a take away, but not. It is where you get the prospect
    to try and tie you down, get you to commit to work with them.

    example; after you spend some time building your authority stance, spending some
    time showing them how you can help them, you take a innocent statement
    they make, and say some thing like ...

    O ..wait a minute bob, your NOT getting it, i am not sure this is going to work for you..

    execute that properly, and they will fall all over them selves trying to prove to you
    why THEY are the one, how they do understand, and of course. When they do that
    they completely close themselves.

    another way, a BOLDER way ... right in the middle of a good exchange of conversation.

    Stop cold. don't say anything at all, for 10 or 15 seconds, ( it makes them nervous )

    then abruptly say, Bob, you know we only work with a few select companies that we know
    we can work with and help be successful, right? well something feels off here.
    I have to be honest, am not sure what it is.
    I am not sure we are a good fit for each other, what do you think?


    Another way; " you sound awful busy, i am not sure you can commit the time needed"

    Or another, "bob, sell ME on the reason why I should work with your company"

    Note:
    NONE of these will work if you do not have COMPLETE control of the conversation.
    NONE of these will work if you do not have a strong bond.
    NONE of these will work if you do not say them with ABSOLUTE conviction.

    The things I mentioned above is why my tag says "Selling Ain't for Sissies"


    Edit:

    I hesitated to talk about this one as it is can easily be abused by the non scrupulous
    My all time Favorite reverse tie down. Just moments away from asking for the money.

    Again full stop.

    Bob, you sound perfect, actually bob, we sound like a perfect fit, right ( after yes )
    There is just ONE thing holding me back from getting you started today.

    (Dramatic pause)

    Bob, i am not sure you have the patience. I just don't. This campaign can take upto a year
    before i can really see it paying off for you, and every other month we may have to tweek
    it a little more... which of course means you will have to spend more money perfecting things.

    I am not sure you are patient enough to see it through, patient enough to truly commit,
    patient enough not to quit ... possibly just before things really start to take off for you.

    -
    then I just let bob talk. in a nutshell IF he is truly sold, he about craps himself
    and promises and promises he will see it through for a year and if he needs to
    spend more to make it happen, it will not be a problem.

    Check Mate
    Signature

    Selling Ain't for Sissies!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7651771].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author David Miller
      This is a great thread, isn't it?

      It's not my intention to take this off track with this post. When we talk about a "sales pitch" it's common to assume that we're speaking only about the actual sales presentation itself. But it's equally important to float these trial balloons at every stage, of your sales process. It's my belief that the "sales pitch" begins at the very first interaction, and that's typically the appointment setting stage.

      It's important to remember that tie downs should be used when you're setting the appointment in the first place. I'm not talking about the old chestnut standard line of : I can be there at 2, or is 4 better is NOT a tie down, it's an alternate of choice.

      When I set an appointment I always ask this: Joe, once I've outlined everything with you (and your team) and you're confident that my group is a good fit for your law firm, is there any reason that you wouldn't be able to pull the trigger?

      This let's Joe know that I'm not dropping by to show them what I've got. He let's him know that I intend to do business then and there, provided I've done my job and demonstrated that there's a good fit.

      There will be times that your prospect will tell you that he never makes decisions on the spot, and there will be times that they take offense that you'd even have the nerve to ask such a question.

      Let's suppose Joe says he never makes a decision on the spot. If that's the case, it's easy to find out what I have to do to make it happen in this case. It's pretty much the same simple question posed slightly differently:

      Joe, if after I've shown you everything you need to know, and it's clear that we're a good fit, and the total investment is acceptable, doesn't it make sense to go ahead and get started?

      You're going to be surprised when you find out that Joe didn't really hear you the first time. Well, he heard you, but it didn't sink in because it's an unusual question to hear when someone is setting an appointment. Most prospects sleep through appointment calls, waiting for the usual "is 2 good or would 4 better?"

      Now, when Joe agrees to the appointment by agreeing to make a decision, he knows what his responsibility is at the end of the presentation, and he knows I'm going to ask him to buy. In other words, he's been "tied down"!
      Signature
      The big lesson in life, baby, is never be scared of anyone or anything.
      -- FRANK SINATRA, quoted in The Way You Wear Your Hat
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7651855].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
        Originally Posted by David Miller View Post

        This is a great thread, isn't it?
        I see what you did there

        On another note, i only skimmed this thread, was this thread about
        tie downs for appointments? if so i need to delete my post.

        My post was geared towards sales, not appointments.
        Signature

        Selling Ain't for Sissies!
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7652036].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author David Miller
          Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

          I see what you did there

          On another note, i only skimmed this thread, was this thread about
          tie downs for appointments? if so i need to delete my post.

          My post was geared towards sales, not appointments.
          I don't know that's it's specifically about the sales presentation itself. I tend to think of the entire process as the presentation. From the time you look at the lead and dial the number, to the time you pick up the check it's all about doing things right. To me, the right thing means getting commitments all along the road to the close. My point is that "tie downs" shouldn't be saved for the actual face to face meeting
          Signature
          The big lesson in life, baby, is never be scared of anyone or anything.
          -- FRANK SINATRA, quoted in The Way You Wear Your Hat
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7652064].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Rearden
        David -- it begs the question -- how do you set appointments (besides the tie-down you described) that allows you to trial close them without a presentation?

        How can a prospect even know whether or not he wants to get started without understanding what exactly you're selling him?

        Assumption is you're *only* setting the appointment.




        Originally Posted by David Miller View Post

        This is a great thread, isn't it?

        It's not my intention to take this off track with this post. When we talk about a "sales pitch" it's common to assume that we're speaking only about the actual sales presentation itself. But it's equally important to float these trial balloons at every stage, of your sales process. It's my belief that the "sales pitch" begins at the very first interaction, and that's typically the appointment setting stage.

        It's important to remember that tie downs should be used when you're setting the appointment in the first place. I'm not talking about the old chestnut standard line of : I can be there at 2, or is 4 better is NOT a tie down, it's an alternate of choice.

        When I set an appointment I always ask this: Joe, once I've outlined everything with you (and your team) and you're confident that my group is a good fit for your law firm, is there any reason that you wouldn't be able to pull the trigger?

        This let's Joe know that I'm not dropping by to show them what I've got. He let's him know that I intend to do business then and there, provided I've done my job and demonstrated that there's a good fit.

        There will be times that your prospect will tell you that he never makes decisions on the spot, and there will be times that they take offense that you'd even have the nerve to ask such a question.

        Let's suppose Joe says he never makes a decision on the spot. If that's the case, it's easy to find out what I have to do to make it happen in this case. It's pretty much the same simple question posed slightly differently:

        Joe, if after I've shown you everything you need to know, and it's clear that we're a good fit, and the total investment is acceptable, doesn't it make sense to go ahead and get started?

        You're going to be surprised when you find out that Joe didn't really hear you the first time. Well, he heard you, but it didn't sink in because it's an unusual question to hear when someone is setting an appointment. Most prospects sleep through appointment calls, waiting for the usual "is 2 good or would 4 better?"

        Now, when Joe agrees to the appointment by agreeing to make a decision, he knows what his responsibility is at the end of the presentation, and he knows I'm going to ask him to buy. In other words, he's been "tied down"!
        Signature
        David Duford -- Providing On-Going, Personalized Mentorship And Training From A Real Final Expense Producer To Agents New To The Final Expense Life Insurance Business.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7652060].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author David Miller
          Originally Posted by Rearden View Post

          David -- it begs the question -- how do you set appointments (besides the tie-down you described) that allows you to trial close them without a presentation?

          How can a prospect even know whether or not he wants to get started without understanding what exactly you're selling him?

          Assumption is you're *only* setting the appointment.
          Well actually they KNOW what it is I'm selling, what they need to know is exactly how it's going to fit within the parameters of their firm. The purpose of the appointment is to give me (and them) the opportunity to do that.

          The tie down I use simply poses a logical step in the process, which is to see if they are willing to make a decision. I'm not asking for a "yes" unless it's a match.

          It's really not any different than "If I could, would you?"
          Signature
          The big lesson in life, baby, is never be scared of anyone or anything.
          -- FRANK SINATRA, quoted in The Way You Wear Your Hat
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7652091].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Rearden
            Are you cold calling for appointments or setting them off of leads/in-bound calls that have some basic understanding of your offerings (how it works, price, service, etc.)?'

            Do you see them if they say anything other than "yes"?

            Originally Posted by David Miller View Post

            Well actually they KNOW what it is I'm selling, what they need to know is exactly how it's going to fit within the parameters of their firm. The purpose of the appointment is to give me (and them) the opportunity to do that.

            The tie down I use simply poses a logical step in the process, which is to see if they are willing to make a decision. I'm not asking for a "yes" unless it's a match.

            It's really not any different than "If I could, would you?"
            Signature
            David Duford -- Providing On-Going, Personalized Mentorship And Training From A Real Final Expense Producer To Agents New To The Final Expense Life Insurance Business.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7652267].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author David Miller
              Originally Posted by Rearden View Post

              Are you cold calling for appointments or setting them off of leads/in-bound calls that have some basic understanding of your offerings (how it works, price, service, etc.)?'

              Do you see them if they say anything other than "yes"?
              My leads are generated from all of the above. I don't want to divert the purpose of the thread by going into the specifics of my sales model. However, I will simply say that if a prospect tells me that he will not make a decision, and that's the finality of the situation, no, I don't go.

              Why would I?
              Why would anyone?

              On occasion a prospect may tell me that it's not the way he does business. I might then ask him how he prefers to do business. To be totally honest, I've never gotten a straight answer on that one.

              I'm aware that there may be those who would say that it's my job to move them to a positive decision once I'm there but that's just not how I choose to work. I treat face to face interactions the same way I treat phone interactions. I'm there to conduct business, and I have no reason to pretend that I have any other agenda. It's great to know that your prospect will be at your meeting at the time you've set. It's better to know that he understands you plan to do business.

              I know this is way off topic, and for that I apologize to JD but, no matter what your particular niche may be (if you have one) there is no shortage of competition ready to take customers away from your prospect, and by extension, every one of his competitors is your potential client.

              I know my sales presentation pretty well, I don't need to practice on people who have told me that they have no intention of making a decision.

              It wouldn't make much sense for me to do that, would it?
              Signature
              The big lesson in life, baby, is never be scared of anyone or anything.
              -- FRANK SINATRA, quoted in The Way You Wear Your Hat
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7652529].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Misterme used these tie downs. Put in this order, they make a pretty killer trial closing sequence. Something you could adapt to almost any sales point.
              "And didn't you say you liked it in black?"
              "And the black looks really great doesn't it?"
              "So we're doing this in black then?"

              Anyway, my ego won't let me just bask in the mastery of some of the posts here...so here goes.

              Tie downs are useful. But there should be a little warning here. If you repeat the same tie down over and over again during the sale, it becomes transparent and even irritating to the prospect.

              The above trial closes by Misterme, are brilliant by themselves, but if you use them for every sales point, they become cumbersome.

              And my experience with tie downs in personal selling (face to face) is that tie downs are far more effective if there are two people listening. That way one of them keeps hearing the other one agree with you.

              Again (from Misterme)
              "So we're doing this in black then?"

              Very powerful question that really really strengthens the buying commitment. And the customer will see it as a commitment too. Something some tie-downs don't do.

              And if the customer doesn't recognize it as a form of commitment...it really isn't.

              Now, Can I be on the team?

              Miller, Reardon, Michaels, Durham, and Claude It has a nice ring to it, don't you agree? (see what I did there?)
              Signature
              One Call Closing book https://www.amazon.com/One-Call-Clos...=1527788418&sr

              Terence Fletcher: "There are no two words in the English language more harmful than Good Job." Whiplash.
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7652670].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                Now, Can I be on the team?
                Only if you provide your take on the reverse tie down
                I am dying to hear it.

                I know its not something a lot of people use, but i figure if anyone in this group does, besides myself
                it would be you... David or MisterMe

                And if NONE of you guys do it, feel free to name me today's King of the Hill.
                Signature

                Selling Ain't for Sissies!
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7652687].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author misterme
                Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

                I think we know who the tie down king is here!...
                Misterme, obviously has mastered the text book perfect execution of tie downs
                Thanks, but, not really. It's just that I've gotten used to saying those questions as a manner of speaking when I'm talking with a prospective client. I'm not trying to convince them of the benefits of going with me. If I have to do that then I'm talking to someone who's not my client type. Otherwise, of course they'll agree with me if I'm saying things they agree with. Remember, they're not yes/no questions, the tie-down can ONLY be answered with a "yes." Because if they answer with "no" then they're not tied down to anything, right? So it's more like I'm checking to make sure they follow what I'm saying rather than getting an agreement, although getting their agreement also serves to get their mind toward ownership.

                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                The above trial closes by Misterme, are brilliant by themselves, but if you use them for every sales point, they become cumbersome.
                Cumbersome, obvious and ANNOYING to the prospect. I don't do multiple tie downs. As I mentioned above, it's just a quick question to make sure they're following me, does that make sense? Yeah. Just like that.

                You want to make sure they're following you, right? Because you wouldn't want to lose them, would you? (hey, that's a reverse positive tie down!) But you have to be careful with it, don't you? Wouldn't using multiple tie downs (except maybe for a summary) drive people crazy? Especially every time you make a point, true? Isn't this becoming annoying? I bet you'd like me to stop, wouldn't you? I can stop anytime I want but you're the one that's still reading this, aren't you?

                Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

                Since where talking tie downs. Any one here use reverse tie downs?

                Very similar to a take away, but not. It is where you get the prospect
                to try and tie you down, get you to commit to work with them.

                example; after you spend some time building your authority stance, spending some
                time showing them how you can help them, you take a innocent statement
                they make, and say some thing like ...

                O ..wait a minute bob, your NOT getting it, i am not sure this is going to work for you..
                Actually, if this makes any sense, I speak my convictions. And I make statements based on that. I may say, "I'm not interested in photographing [and then I describe the type of client I don't want]." I let the person sitting in front of me determine if they meet my standards or not rather than me telling them something like, "this may not be for you."

                In effect, I paint a picture and let them see if they see themselves in it or not.

                What I've discovered about the "this may not be for you" takeaway, is that it only has a chance of being effective IF you have a very interested prospect. It doesn't make someone who's not interested into someone who is. Works on someone on the fence. But someone who doesn't care, doesn't care.

                I deal with Millennials, 30-somethings and 40-somethings, as clients. Millennials especially are a different breed. I would be damaging myself if I were presumptive. "I'm not sure this is for you," "I'm not sure you're the right person for this," "you don't get it," "I'm not sure you have the time for this..." that would be a big turn off to speak that way. Especially from their wedding photographer. I'm the one person they really want to feel a bond with. They're entrusting me with their memories. They want to feel the right connection. Fact is, everyone wants to feel understood.

                So, I put forth my value propositions and let them decide if they're the right person. In effect, I "throw down a challenge for them to rise to." I heard that wonderful line once, seems like centuries ago. I wish I could remember who said it.

                Then they tell me why they're the right people for me. It's a conversation, not a dictate. Mission accomplished.
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7652802].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                  Originally Posted by misterme View Post

                  Cumbersome, obvious and ANNOYING to the prospect. I don't do multiple tie downs. As I mentioned above, it's just a quick question to make sure they're following me, does that make sense? Yeah. Just like that.
                  Misterme; I said "it becomes transparent and even irritating to the prospect". I submit that my transparent and irritating trumps your Annoying. I just want to be fair.

                  Originally Posted by misterme View Post

                  You want to make sure they're following you, right? Because you wouldn't want to lose them, would you? (hey, that's a reverse positive tie down!) But you have to be careful with it, don't you? Wouldn't using multiple tie downs (except maybe for a summary) drive people crazy? Especially every time you make a point, true? Isn't this becoming annoying? I bet you'd like me to stop, wouldn't you? I can stop anytime I want but you're the one that's still reading this, aren't you?
                  OK, now I'm looking for a gun. This is one of the flaws in the Tom Hopkins book How To Master The Art Of Selling. The tie downs are irritating.
                  Signature
                  One Call Closing book https://www.amazon.com/One-Call-Clos...=1527788418&sr

                  Terence Fletcher: "There are no two words in the English language more harmful than Good Job." Whiplash.
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7652880].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
                  Originally Posted by misterme View Post

                  What I've discovered about the "this may not be for you" takeaway, is that it only has a chance of being effective IF you have a very interested prospect. It doesn't make someone who's not interested into someone who is. Works on someone on the fence. But someone who doesn't care, doesn't care.
                  Could not agree with you more. Let me clarify.

                  I only use those reverse tie downs ( not; take away's ) with a highly interested
                  prospect, AND i generally ONLY use that technique when I am going for
                  a sale above and beyond the prospects comfort level. ie a high ticket.

                  Also let me clarify what i call reverse tie down.

                  The entire purpose is to get them ( the prospect ) to forget i am selling them
                  and have them start selling me. So when I do ask for the high ticket,
                  they forget it is out side of their comfort zone and are happy I accepted them.

                  It is not advanced kung fu, but it is definitely a minor ninja move.

                  I am not sure how to explain it better then that. Plus to add confusion.
                  I made the word reverse tie down up.

                  @ claude,

                  After i establish my self as the authority, I am rather bold, more often then not.
                  I do have to switch that hat sometimes, but not as often as people would think.
                  Signature

                  Selling Ain't for Sissies!
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7653012].message }}
                  • stay on point?

                    a tie down is something 2 parties agree to
                    and what the response is when the agreement is beached by either party.

                    IMO
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7653048].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author TyBrown
                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                Misterme used these tie downs. Put in this order, they make a pretty killer trial closing sequence. Something you could adapt to almost any sales point.
                "And didn't you say you liked it in black?"
                "And the black looks really great doesn't it?"
                "So we're doing this in black then?"

                Anyway, my ego won't let me just bask in the mastery of some of the posts here...so here goes.

                Tie downs are useful. But there should be a little warning here. If you repeat the same tie down over and over again during the sale, it becomes transparent and even irritating to the prospect.

                The above trial closes by Misterme, are brilliant by themselves, but if you use them for every sales point, they become cumbersome.

                And my experience with tie downs in personal selling (face to face) is that tie downs are far more effective if there are two people listening. That way one of them keeps hearing the other one agree with you.

                Again (from Misterme)
                "So we're doing this in black then?"

                Very powerful question that really really strengthens the buying commitment. And the customer will see it as a commitment too. Something some tie-downs don't do.

                And if the customer doesn't recognize it as a form of commitment...it really isn't.

                Now, Can I be on the team?

                Miller, Reardon, Michaels, Durham, and Claude It has a nice ring to it, don't you agree? (see what I did there?)

                I need to agree with you on your point about too many tie downs. I immediately shut down, and have ended many presentations, when the salesperson is trying to tie me down over and over. It is transparent, it is annoying. Any business owner that has had an hour of sales training immediately sees what the salesperson is doing and many may resent it.

                Now, I realize from several discussions on this forum that I am a lousy prospect for most of your styles of sales pitching so no worries if you don't agree. For all the pitching and rebuttals and tie downs and 'closes', etc. that are discussed on here I think it's valuable to point out that many of these techniques will turn off a portion of your audience. Granted, no matter what your style is you will turn off a portion of your audience so it all boils down to how your conversion rate and life time values equal out.

                My biggest pet peeve is the question 'Aside from price...' The moment I hear that I shut down. I've stopped a handful of salesmen at that point. I try to be honest in life so when pushed further my responses typically are:

                - You are the first one to bring this solution to my attention. After your presentation I'm going to do some research and see if someone is doing it better/faster/cheaper/more efficiently than you.
                - I am susceptible to bright and shiny objects. Most pitches sound good to me in the moment. I need to hear it and digest it. Sometimes I find when I look at something that sounded great in the moment, in the cold light of day, it doesn't look so good any more.
                - While the price may be fine it may not be getting me the same marginal ROI that I'm used to so I'll need to run some scenarios and I prefer to not do that with you sitting here looking at me.
                - I run every bigger purchase through my wife. And, no, I'm not going to invite her to listen to your pitch. She's got 4 children under the age of 6 and I don't feel like interrupting her day to listen to your pitch. Yes, I realize that I may not convey all of the benefit as you are about to present to me but I'm still not going to interrupt her day for this as she doesn't have time for all the things I'm pitched on.

                My list goes on. So when I'm asked if there is anything other than price that would stop me from moving forward this very nanosecond the answer is, yes, plenty.
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7656826].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                  Originally Posted by TyBrown View Post

                  I need to agree with you on your point about too many tie downs. I immediately shut down, and have ended many presentations, when the salesperson is trying to tie me down over and over. It is transparent, it is annoying. Any business owner that has had an hour of sales training immediately sees what the salesperson is doing and many may resent it.

                  Now, I realize from several discussions on this forum that I am a lousy prospect for most of your styles of sales pitching so no worries if you don't agree. For all the pitching and rebuttals and tie downs and 'closes', etc. that are discussed on here I think it's valuable to point out that many of these techniques will turn off a portion of your audience. Granted, no matter what your style is you will turn off a portion of your audience so it all boils down to how your conversion rate and life time values equal out.

                  My biggest pet peeve is the question 'Aside from price...' The moment I hear that I shut down. I've stopped a handful of salesmen at that point. I try to be honest in life so when pushed further my responses typically are:

                  - You are the first one to bring this solution to my attention. After your presentation I'm going to do some research and see if someone is doing it better/faster/cheaper/more efficiently than you.
                  - I am susceptible to bright and shiny objects. Most pitches sound good to me in the moment. I need to hear it and digest it. Sometimes I find when I look at something that sounded great in the moment, in the cold light of day, it doesn't look so good any more.
                  - While the price may be fine it may not be getting me the same marginal ROI that I'm used to so I'll need to run some scenarios and I prefer to not do that with you sitting here looking at me.
                  - I run every bigger purchase through my wife. And, no, I'm not going to invite her to listen to your pitch. She's got 4 children under the age of 6 and I don't feel like interrupting her day to listen to your pitch. Yes, I realize that I may not convey all of the benefit as you are about to present to me but I'm still not going to interrupt her day for this as she doesn't have time for all the things I'm pitched on.

                  My list goes on. So when I'm asked if there is anything other than price that would stop me from moving forward this very nanosecond the answer is, yes, plenty.
                  I understand what you are saying. One of the skills involved is knowing your prospect's psyche. Everything you said in your post shows that you are receiving pitches with your intellectual part of the brain, the cerebral Neocortex (Yes, I had to look up the spelling ).

                  Most presentations appeal to the reptilian and paleomammalian (The limbic system) parts of the brain.

                  Teachers, as a group, strongly tend to respond like you do. Engineers to a slightly lesser degree. And many of the "techniques" discussed here would get a different reaction from most people than you stated.

                  But..these techniques are not stand alone. They are part of a conversation. They don't sound like a technique if delivered well. They blend into the conversation.

                  Me? I love hearing a great salesperson. I wallow in it. And hearing tie downs that sound like tie downs, is the mark of a newbie.

                  The reactions you posted? I love to hear them in a real sales situation, and I do. But long before we get to the close, I know that you are going to say something like what you said. And so I would relieve the pressure and involve analytical agruments for buying.

                  I naturally think like an engineer, so I relate well with analytical arguments.

                  One thing I think is interesting, is that you said " I am susceptible to bright and shiny objects."

                  But your replies to "Other than price" say something different. I don't thnk I've ever had a prospect switch from one personality type to another in their responses. Interesting.

                  Anyway, I've used 7 big words and my daily limit is 8, so I'll stop now.:rolleyes:
                  I hope someone found this interesting.
                  Signature
                  One Call Closing book https://www.amazon.com/One-Call-Clos...=1527788418&sr

                  Terence Fletcher: "There are no two words in the English language more harmful than Good Job." Whiplash.
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7657258].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author TyBrown
                    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                    I understand what you are saying. One of the skills involved is knowing your prospect's psyche. Everything you said in your post shows that you are receiving pitches with your intellectual part of the brain, the cerebral Neocortex (Yes, I had to look up the spelling ).

                    Most presentations appeal to the reptilian and paleomammalian (The limbic system) parts of the brain.

                    Teachers, as a group, strongly tend to respond like you do. Engineers to a slightly lesser degree. And many of the "techniques" discussed here would get a different reaction from most people than you stated.

                    But..these techniques are not stand alone. They are part of a conversation. They don't sound like a technique if delivered well. They blend into the conversation.

                    Me? I love hearing a great salesperson. I wallow in it. And hearing tie downs that sound like tie downs, is the mark of a newbie.

                    The reactions you posted? I love to hear them in a real sales situation, and I do. But long before we get to the close, I know that you are going to say something like what you said. And so I would relieve the pressure and involve analytical agruments for buying.

                    I naturally think like an engineer, so I relate well with analytical arguments.

                    One thing I think is interesting, is that you said " I am susceptible to bright and shiny objects."

                    But your replies to "Other than price" say something different. I don't thnk I've ever had a prospect switch from one personality type to another in their responses. Interesting.

                    Anyway, I've used 7 big words and my daily limit is 8, so I'll stop now.:rolleyes:
                    I hope someone found this interesting.
                    It's funny, as I was writing my previous comment I was realizing that most of the pitches I've heard were so clunky and most of the salesmen were so lousy that their 'techniques' were so easy to spot. Your explanation made sense to me.

                    I don't mind being 'sold' at all. When I'm working with a salesperson and I recognize that I'm probably going to buy it's because the person is nice, is really wanting to know about my business, and is presenting solutions that make sense. When I hear the exact tie downs, closes, rebuttals, etc. that I've read in the same sales training books I'm sure they read it strikes me as abrasive.

                    I can remember many times being very frustrated in trying to buy something because salespeople are trying to use 'techniques' often to their detriment. The last two vehicles I bought, I called up a place recommended to me by my brother in law, asked what they had on the lot that fit my needs, and then told them to bring one over and I'd buy it. 'But you need to come in so you can FEEL the car...' Nope. Just bring it to my house with the contract. 'Don't you want to check out the different colors?' Nope, just bring it over and I'll buy it. 30 minutes later I finally convinced them to just do it how I wanted.

                    But you're right, the really good salespeople aren't using visible techniques. The techniques were written to quantify to beginners the 'how' in selling. Those that are really great may have to fall back on a line or a technique here or there but what they're really doing is trying their best to serve and help the prospect. In my opinion, those that are trying to put together a pitch generally are thinking on how they are going to manipulate or persuade the prospect and what THEY want to get out of the deal rather than what their prospect wants (I've read those two words several times in this thread) and therefore they need quantifiable techniques.

                    I know it's been mentioned ad nauseum on here but that was one thing I learned from Spin Selling. The best salespeople out there didn't memorize lines, didn't employ a stable of techniques, didn't 'close' people, etc. They simply fought hard to help their prospects as best they could. In that process it makes sense that 'technique' would come through but it would come through organically and not forced.
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7658466].message }}
                    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                      Originally Posted by TyBrown View Post

                      The best salespeople out there didn't memorize lines, didn't employ a stable of techniques, didn't 'close' people, etc. They simply fought hard to help their prospects as best they could. In that process it makes sense that 'technique' would come through but it would come through organically and not forced.
                      You start with techniques. Techniques are easier to learn than principles.
                      Eventually you internalize enough techniques that you begin to understand why they work (or don't). then the technique is irrelevant.

                      Understanding completely how one sales technique works then gives you hundreds of techniques...or really just patterns of thought.

                      And in Spin selling, they used techniques. They were methods of asking questions and building value (and pain). They just weren't beginner techniques.

                      I think even I'm getting tired of hearing myself talk. Goodnight.
                      Signature
                      One Call Closing book https://www.amazon.com/One-Call-Clos...=1527788418&sr

                      Terence Fletcher: "There are no two words in the English language more harmful than Good Job." Whiplash.
                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7658761].message }}
                      • Profile picture of the author TyBrown
                        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                        You start with techniques. Techniques are easier to learn than principles.
                        Eventually you internalize enough techniques that you begin to understand why they work (or don't). then the technique is irrelevant.

                        Understanding completely how one sales technique works then gives you hundreds of techniques...or really just patterns of thought.

                        And in Spin selling, they used techniques. They were methods of asking questions and building value (and pain). They just weren't beginner techniques.

                        I think even I'm getting tired of hearing myself talk. Goodnight.
                        You're right, Spin did talk about that.

                        I think I'm not communicating in a semantically correct way. The reason why is I'm equating 'techniques' with the other words being used on this thread like manipulation, coercion, persuasion, etc. The way many salespeople describe their job makes it seem like this is an adversarial battle where someone walks away victorious and you have to 'beat' your opponent into writing the check.

                        Upon further thought, that's not what techniques are, that's just how I was 'hearing' them come across based on the context.
                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7659534].message }}
                        • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
                          Originally Posted by TyBrown View Post

                          . The way many salespeople describe their job makes it seem like this is an adversarial battle where someone walks away victorious and you have to 'beat' your opponent into writing the check.
                          Those are chuckle heads, NOT sales people.

                          Watching a real sales person is a thing of beauty. As a matter of fact
                          most of the time you will have to analyze after the fact to figure out what they did.
                          because its so smooth you missed it the first time.

                          If you ever want to see a real sale person, look for the guy or gal every one is
                          always complaining about... the one that is always finding ALL the lay downs.

                          THAT is most likely the real sale person.
                          Signature

                          Selling Ain't for Sissies!
                          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7659628].message }}
                          • Profile picture of the author sandalwood
                            John,

                            I appreciate you starting this thread. It brought out some pretty good people who have been there, done that and shared their experience. We don't have to agree point for point but we can learn point by point.

                            I may be knocking 68 in the head but I still learn something every time I read a thread like this and THEN I APPLY it. To me, that is what makes a sales person. Can you actually take what works for someone else in a different part of the country and twist and bend it so it helps you?

                            Knowledge isn't power. APPLIED knowledge is.

                            Have a great day,

                            Tom
                            Signature
                            Get 30% or More Retirement Income If you are serious about your retirement, you'll love this product.

                            The Money Ferret Finance Article Directory
                            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7660058].message }}
                            • Profile picture of the author David Miller
                              Originally Posted by sandalwood View Post

                              John,

                              I appreciate you starting this thread. It brought out some pretty good people who have been there, done that and shared their experience. We don't have to agree point for point but we can learn point by point.

                              I may be knocking 68 in the head but I still learn something every time I read a thread like this and THEN I APPLY it. To me, that is what makes a sales person. Can you actually take what works for someone else in a different part of the country and twist and bend it so it helps you?

                              Knowledge isn't power. APPLIED knowledge is.

                              Have a great day,

                              Tom
                              Hi Tom,

                              I know you were asking this of JD but I thought I would jump in and give you my two cents, in reference to what goes on in different parts of the country.

                              I've lived just about every part of the USA. I grew up in NY and that's a lot of baggage to bring to places like Arizona, Tennessee, and Nevada.

                              These days, we live in a far more mobile (not sites) society than ever before. It's not unusual to find east coast people in Arizona and folks from Washington State in Florida. People move around, that's a fact.

                              I've found over the years that for the most part people respond to other people, even sales people in the same fashion. Of course there are always going to be some people who don't like a person simply because of preconceived notions. New Yorkers are tough Southerners are all rednecks, etc.

                              Over the years I've used the same techniques in 10 states in very different parts of the country. I've never left a state because my sales numbers were suffering!

                              Unless you're closing questions or tie downs are geographically specific, it doesn't make a bit of difference.
                              Signature
                              The big lesson in life, baby, is never be scared of anyone or anything.
                              -- FRANK SINATRA, quoted in The Way You Wear Your Hat
                              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7660188].message }}
                          • Profile picture of the author misterme
                            Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

                            If you ever want to see a real sale person, look for the guy or gal every one is always complaining about... the one that is always finding ALL the lay downs.

                            THAT is most likely the real sale person.
                            That made laugh out of recignizing that situation. On a new sales job I had, one of the old timers pointed out another guy who had started three months before and who for the last two months was outselling all the other, more experienced, salespeople on the floor. He pointed him out and said to me, "You see him? Watch everything he does - and then do the opposite because he's doing everything wrong!"

                            He was not liking that new guy. NOBODY liked the new guy. They all grumbled about him behind his back and spoke ill of him to newer guys like me. Then the newer guys would speak badly of him to everyone too. Kind of like the "monkeys and the banana on the staircase" if you know of that experiment.

                            So while I remained friendly with the old timer, you can bet I befriended the best sales person in the room.

                            By the way, that new sales guy, he was an ok person. He hated being there because he had been downsized from an engineering career he really loved, and felt displaced. His sales efforts came from feeling the squeeze to pay the mortgage and send his kids through college. He felt he had no choice but to sink or swim. So he was doing what he could to make the sale.
                            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7660181].message }}
                      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
                        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                        You start with techniques. Techniques are easier to learn than principles.
                        Exactly. Thats like saying the best karate fighters didnt learn techniques, they just learned principles.

                        Some karate fighters dont have to think when they fight, they dont do their moves exactly according to the technique they originally learned...they just own it...but, there was a time when they learned the techniques verbatim....then they owned it later.

                        Most professional salespeople learned on a "pitch" that included all this stuff already and you wouldnt even know it if you werent informed. You would just be told to "follow the prescribed process" for pitching.

                        Usually that is followed by "verbatim".

                        I could write a pitch right now that would include all of these things and if you werent in the know you wouldnt even know they were techniques...but on the other note- go to a karate school and tell the sensi you just want to jump straight to the principles, because you dont need to know the prescribed techniques.

                        -John
                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7661598].message }}
                        • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
                          Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

                          Exactly. Thats like saying the best karate fighters didnt learn techniques, they just learned principles.

                          Some karate fighters dont have to think when they fight, they dont do their moves exactly according to the technique they originally learned...they just own it...but, there was a time when they learned the techniques verbatim....then they owned it later.

                          Most professional salespeople learned on a "pitch" that included all this stuff already and you wouldnt even know it if you werent informed. You would just be told to "follow the prescribed process" for pitching.

                          Usually that is followed by "verbatim".

                          I could write a pitch right now that would include all of these things and if you werent in the know you wouldnt even know they were techniques...but on the other note- go to a karate school and tell the sensi you just want to jump straight to the principles, because you dont need to know the prescribed techniques.

                          -John
                          I must admit, your lack of participation ... in this thread YOU created is...
                          suprising...

                          I KNOW... you have things to say.. WHY.. O WHY... are you holding back bro???

                          the ant's?

                          Do your thing bro .. ignore the white noise. It is nothing more then a distraction.
                          If your thing is better ... the white noise will eventually fade to black.
                          Signature

                          Selling Ain't for Sissies!
                          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7661641].message }}
                          • Profile picture of the author John Durham
                            Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

                            I must admit, your lack of participation ... in this thread YOU created is...
                            suprising...

                            I KNOW... you have things to say.. WHY.. O WHY... are you holding back bro???

                            the ant's?

                            Do your thing bro .. ignore the white noise. It is nothing more then a distraction.
                            If your thing is better ... the white noise will eventually fade to black.
                            @ Ken

                            No I just went out of town thinking I would be back in one night, and ended up staying out all weekend, didnt sleep much , then crashed for ten hours. Im still here.. ,

                            Also I tried posting ten different times last night and the WF kept going down, it got annoying having to retype my posts numerous times each and wait ten minutes in between. .

                            Originally Posted by TyBrown View Post


                            I need to agree with you on your point about too many tie downs. I immediately shut down, and have ended many presentations, when the salesperson is trying to tie me down over and over.

                            Now, I realize from several discussions on this forum that I am a lousy prospect for most of your styles of sales pitching so no worries if you don't agree. For all the pitching and rebuttals and tie downs and 'closes', etc. that are discussed on here I think it's valuable to point out that many of these techniques will turn off a portion of your audience.
                            There are rules, and there are exceptions. We succeed basing what we do off the rules... Even in the mind of the sales trainee this stuff seems uncomfortable to say at first, till they understand the principle well, but it works on more "prospects" than it doesnt, even for clumsy trainees.

                            Ever applied for a sales job where they didnt give you a prescribed pitch?

                            So even though there are exceptions, some who will turn down ANY telemarketer or door to door sales person...you only represent as you said a "portion" of the audience. A very small one actually. Most people do not recognize that they are being sold, especially with a well practiced sales person who can execute naturally , with good timing ...

                            I learned to play music by "ear", but I could play it ten times better if I had learned the fundamental things like reading notes, and the various disciplins...

                            In any event, yes, Im sure we couldnt sell you... but it's best not to play by exceptions; play by rules.

                            Focusing on the ten percent that doesnt respond to what you do is not optimal.

                            The optimal thing to do is focus on the 90% who are PROVEN to respond better if you do these things.

                            -John


                            Ps. To the sales managers here: How many times have you had a new recruit tell you these things felt unatural? How many times have they said "I cant say that"? How many times have they said "This wont work"? The leads are bad? The market is saturated? The pitch sounds like a stupid robot?

                            What do you tell them?

                            "Keep dialing and say it verabtim, thats the job description".

                            What happens later?

                            They own it and can say the exact same script 100 times better and they start knocking down sales and keeping up quotas just like everyone else.

                            No, you dont take these things to extreme... however Im going to look up a thread and show you something now, even though I hate to lead people out of the thread.

                            Here is a person who failed at starting an offline sales team trying to wing it, and so they went out and learned how professional "prescribe" to do it, by taking a job at a ca,ll center for a few months, now they are set up for success and understand:

                            http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-...e-machine.html

                            On second thought I will just put their post here so you dont have to keave the thread:

                            Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

                            hey guys,

                            it's been a while since I posted here (months in fact...)...

                            .My first attempt at setting up a call center this summer failed for various (in retrospect, obvious) reasons and then life got in the way, but for the second time, I am giving it another go, in a tad more conservative manner this time (if I don't have a working script, I won't be hiring people or expanding into an office).

                            Soooo during the summer, I joined a call centre to actually learn how to sell.

                            The things they did there:
                            -my alias never backs down, is never in the wrong, and knows everything. In short, a figure of authority.
                            -The tone is not monotonous, but it is always the same (figure of authority).
                            -Keep control of the conversation,
                            -The leads were extremely targeted and there was only one type of socio-economic background.
                            -Very formal because of the high level of sales
                            -The script was very long, and read word for word, there were very few ,if any, deviations from it
                            -Was multi-call sales which involved two people.

                            In a way, I taught the sales were easier because unlike other places, the salesmen pitched like machines.Literally,I could have plugged a soundboard and it would not have made a difference because I never differed in tone. Even if the gatekeeper or prospect said stuff like "I'm walking out the door", I was never to rush.

                            My question is: is this a good end goal to aspire to in terms of sales proces for a one-call-closes?

                            I have restarted cold calling 2 days ago on my own, I wrote a new script from scratch selling text marketing. This time to small businesses.

                            I know that on the forum it is suggested to mimic the prospect but as I tried to do it, listening to my recordings, it sounds awkward or it sounds pathetic.

                            I have a french accent. I don't think it is exceedingly heavy when I am reading a script (I have gone to english college and high school), but people can still tell, espescially when I am nervous. I am stuck with it, like Celine Dion is.

                            I know there is a "zen" part to selling (for lack of a better word), but I get the feeling I don't get it at all.

                            Thanks WF

                            And here was my response... forgive the personal satisfaction because this person went out and proved everything I have been saying here for years about technique, and everything Ken is saying about authority and dictatorship:

                            Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

                            Good for you! You got paid for training instead of paying for it!

                            Do it just like they taught you and stick to your script. Every time you vary in tone or in script the law of averages starts over at the beginning, because you are no longer repeating the same action.

                            If you are good enough to wing it you can get a sale here and there, but if you pitch like a machine you can hit a predictable quota day in and day out.

                            I would bet that room hits their numbers every day, and even below average producers make daily sales. The reasons you described are why.

                            Zen, is what happens when you consciously are trying to hold the same tone and vibe over a period of hours, it becomes kind of a zen like experience. You are focused on feeling for your vibe, and holding it steadily for long periods of time without variance, in the face of variables.

                            -John

                            Ps. "Multi Call Sales" = "T.O" system which you have heard me refer to alot.
                            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7661650].message }}
                            • Profile picture of the author sandalwood
                              I just copied this out of a free sales book I downloaded. Yep, still reading everything I can even Ken's sassy posts

                              To be good at selling you must be better at LISTENING than you are at TALKING.
                              Because ultimately, that is what a good sales person does. You must listen to the needs
                              of your prospects and help them to gain clarity on the problems they want to solve or the
                              goals they want to achieve. After that, it’s just a simple matter of presenting them with the
                              appropriate solution and… tada! A sale is made.


                              So if listening is as important as the above guru states, if we've listened we should know the tie-down, correct? And if we have listened we may not need to use a tie-down, correct?

                              It is my unscientific opinion listening is really the key. We have to force ourselves to let our thinking of what to say or what to do happen behind the scenes. After we've listened to the client, customer, prospect then and only then can we tie down or get a check.

                              They really don't care how much we know. They want to know how much we care and we do that by listening with 100% of our being.

                              I could be wrong so, per request from higher authority, here is my credit card #: 0000 0000 0000 0001. Yep, I got the very first one issued.

                              Tom
                              Signature
                              Get 30% or More Retirement Income If you are serious about your retirement, you'll love this product.

                              The Money Ferret Finance Article Directory
                              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7661697].message }}
                        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                          Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

                          Exactly. Thats like saying the best karate fighters didnt learn techniques, they just learned principles.

                          Some karate fighters dont have to think when they fight, they dont do their moves exactly according to the technique they originally learned...they just own it...but, there was a time when they learned the techniques verbatim....then they owned it later.

                          Most professional salespeople learned on a "pitch" that included all this stuff already and you wouldnt even know it if you werent informed. You would just be told to "follow the prescribed process" for pitching.

                          Usually that is followed by "verbatim".


                          I could write a pitch right now that would include all of these things and if you werent in the know you wouldnt even know they were techniques...but on the other note- go to a karate school and tell the sensi you just want to jump straight to the principles, because you dont need to know the prescribed techniques.

                          -John
                          Very interesting. I think you guys will get something out of this. In the style of Kung Fu I studied, I learned techniques at the beginning. And kept learning them for over a decade. It wasn't until about the third year that I started learning the principles involved. Some were taught, and some can't be taught, only experienced. Eventually the theory of movement and principles come out of the techniques practiced.

                          Another reason techniques were taught right away, is that the student's had to feel they were learning something every class. Another technique, another defense, until we learned a couple thousand. Then it started to jell as a whole theory of movement.


                          I found out in China they teach one martial art, Tai Chi, by teaching the principles from the very beginning. The first 8 or ten years, the practice cannot be used for fighting, and techniques are not practiced.

                          But about the tenth year of practice, the student internalizes the principles of movement (his and his opponent's) and techniques literally spring out of his practice. Eventually, he becomes a far better fighter than the technique oriented practitioner. But for several years, his training shows almost no tangible benefits (in fighting).

                          In China, students counted their training in decades, not months.

                          So, that is why we learn selling techniques in the beginning. That's why we use a tested proven sales script in the beginning. Because we cannot know the principles used. That comes much later. And...we have to eat in the meantime.

                          Claude "Death By Metaphor" Whitacre
                          Signature
                          One Call Closing book https://www.amazon.com/One-Call-Clos...=1527788418&sr

                          Terence Fletcher: "There are no two words in the English language more harmful than Good Job." Whiplash.
                          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7662242].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

      Only if you provide your take on the reverse tie down
      I am dying to hear it.

      I know its not something a lot of people use, but i figure if anyone in this group does, besides myself
      it would be you... David or MisterMe
      I'm honored that you would think so.

      Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

      Since where talking tie downs. Any one here use reverse tie downs?

      O ..wait a minute bob, your NOT getting it, i am not sure this is going to work for you..
      A little strong for me. I see why it works, but every salesy bone in my body rebels at saying "You're not getting it". Again, it's admirable, but not for me.

      Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

      another way, a BOLDER way ... right in the middle of a good exchange of conversation.

      Stop cold. don't say anything at all, for 10 or 15 seconds, ( it makes them nervous )
      then abruptly say, Bob, you know we only work with a few select companies that we know
      we can work with and help be successful, right? well something feels off here.
      I have to be honest, am not sure what it is.

      I am not sure we are a good fit for each other, what do you think?
      Again, I see how it works, but again, it would be unnatural for me to say the bolded sentence.

      Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

      Again full stop.
      Bob, you sound perfect, actually bob, we sound like a perfect fit, right ( after yes )
      There is just ONE thing holding me back from getting you started today.


      (Dramatic pause)
      Bob, i am not sure you have the patience. I just don't. This campaign can take upto a year
      before i can really see it paying off for you, and every other month we may have to tweek
      it a little more... which of course means you will have to spend more money perfecting things.

      I am not sure you are patient enough to see it through, patient enough to truly commit,
      patient enough not to quit ... possibly just before things really start to take off for you.

      -
      then I just let bob talk. in a nutshell IF he is truly sold, he about craps himself
      and promises and promises he will see it through for a year and if he needs to
      spend more to make it happen, it will not be a problem.

      Check Mate
      Ken; My pick of the litter. "There is just ONE thing holding me back from getting you started today". Brilliant. More brilliant than anything I could add. In fact, I just want to bask in the wording for a few minutes.
      I have never used that exact language, but I will now.

      My language was always something like. "Let's not get too excited yet, I don't know if this is the best answer for you. Let me ask a few more questions."

      But yours would be used later in the sequence, and would be devastating.

      Boys and girls...this is powerful medicine. Authority has to be established before this tie down works. And if they see you in any way as trying to get the deal (because you need a deal) it worn't work at all.

      Originally Posted by David Miller View Post


      It's not my intention to take this off track with this post. When we talk about a "sales pitch" it's common to assume that we're speaking only about the actual sales presentation itself. But it's equally important to float these trial balloons at every stage, of your sales process. It's my belief that the "sales pitch" begins at the very first interaction, and that's typically the appointment setting stage.

      When I set an appointment I always ask this: Joe, once I've outlined everything with you (and your team) and you're confident that my group is a good fit for your law firm, is there any reason that you wouldn't be able to pull the trigger?

      Joe, if after I've shown you everything you need to know, and it's clear that we're a good fit, and the total investment is acceptable, doesn't it make sense to go ahead and get started?
      The bolded parts are pure gold, and I thank you.
      Signature
      One Call Closing book https://www.amazon.com/One-Call-Clos...=1527788418&sr

      Terence Fletcher: "There are no two words in the English language more harmful than Good Job." Whiplash.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7652833].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author xpatflipper
      This is Choice!
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8790339].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Rearden
    *IF* (take-away) I can qualify you for a program today Mrs. Jones, can you afford $X a month on your life insurance?"

    "Out of the programs I've presented to you, which one fits your needs the best?"

    "What specifically do you like about my program versus the others?"

    PS: Tie-downs don't work on suspects.
    Signature
    David Duford -- Providing On-Going, Personalized Mentorship And Training From A Real Final Expense Producer To Agents New To The Final Expense Life Insurance Business.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7651860].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    I gotta hit the road guys, on my way out the door , out of town till late tonight, but I gotta say two things:

    1: Ken, I will be emaling you some stuff tonight.

    2: We have some SERIOUS heavy hitters on this thread!

    I know I said Misterme was the tie down king, and he sure as heck is awesome... But I have to wonder if there arent a FEW maestro's here...I mean Miller, Reardon and Michaels are SLAMMIN with some different style here that is really hardcore and Yes really effective stuff...

    Sometimes I feel I have forgotten more than I know...and you guys, including misterme, remind me.... I cant say there is a best here I guess...I mean there are some slammin tie downs on this thread!

    Any new salesperson reading it is def going to get a wealth of effective techniques.

    You guys do this like you know what you are doin or something!

    Gotta hit the road in a few minutes guys, wish I could hang around..., awesome stuff!

    -John
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7652089].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Another thought:

    I asked specifically for tie down knowledge...and I think this thread is an example of the fact that "the more specific and clear you are about your questions, the more concentrated specific answers you get".

    Thats worth noting.

    -John
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7652111].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author max5ty
    The best "tie down" is to get the customer to use your product. You let them sell themself.

    Example:

    20 some years ago when I was selling cars, I had the customer get in and start it.

    Showed them how to set their favorite radio station, and had them set their favorite.

    Showed them how to adjust their seat, and had them do it so they were comfortable.

    Showed them how to tilt and telescope the wheel, and had them do it the way they wanted it.

    Showed them how to adjust the mirrors, and had them do it.

    Simple things, but things the customer really cared about. Never underestimate the simple things your product can do. Too many salesman talk about the complicated features without letting the customer experience the simple benefits.

    All that was left was the drive since they had everything set.

    They drove to their house, pulled the car in their garage, parked it in the driveway...where I took a picture with them standing beside it or in it, etc.

    Back then I had a polaroid camera, I'd put my name and number on the bottom and then if for some reason they didn't buy, they had the picture. Worked wonders for a business card. I was the only one I know of that did it...but it helped me break just about every sales record that had been set.

    The more you get them to use it, the less they want it taken away from them, they begin to start figuring out in their own head how they can keep your product. The close is a snap.

    You can let the customer "test drive" virtually anything you're selling.

    Your closing ratio goes through the roof.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7652560].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Okay guys, I got held up for a a couple of hours waiting for my son in law to get off work, because he is going with me. Now he wants to run to the bank and cash his check before we leave, so I have a minute...

    First of all, I cant believe I missed this one because its one of the best in the thread, and if I had time I could expound for an hour on all the different ways this can be used effectively... sometimes big things come in small packages:

    Originally Posted by DJL View Post

    "You do want fries with that, yes?"
    As tempting as it is, i cant take the time to expound on that now, in fact there are a million things I want to say reading down this thread, but no time. In any event "Thank you DJL, sorry I failed to see it. That's a good one.

    Secondly,


    Just as a last note, one that deserves its own specific thread honestly; I know how to define the disconnection between Claude and Ken's opinions on some things. There is one degree of separation here that needs to be defined...and when you hear it put in this perspective, it will ring a HUGE bell, especially for Claude (because he probably knows these like the back of his hand)...

    Let me put on my swami hat and get zen for a minute....

    Okay,

    Claude, you will recognize it for what it is now, suddenly your memory will come back to you, and you will understand why you are feeling the disconnect, and we will all want Ken to start a specific thread on it, which I could participate in for hours.

    This will make sense.

    "Another term for Reverse Tie Down is....." drum roll please....

    TAKE AWAY!!!!!

    Ken is the king of those, in fact he has a whole style based on them, and gosh darn it, that needs to be a specific thread that blows up!

    "Ahhh....now I get why I wasnt connecting it (face palm) ...I have used those a million times", right Claude?

    Cant wait to get back tonight and have some more fun in this thread! This is going to be highly valuable for anyone developing as a sales person.

    -John
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7652907].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      Okay guys, I got held up for a a couple of hours waiting for my son in law to get off work, because he is going with me. Now he wants to run to the bank and cash his check before we leave, so I have a minute...

      First of all, I cant believe I missed this one because its one of the best in the thread, and if I had time I could expound for an hour on all the different ways this can be used effectively... sometimes big things come in small packages:



      As tempting as it is, i cant take the time to expound on that now, in fact there are a million things I want to say reading down this thread, but no time. In any event "Thank you DJL, sorry I failed to see it. That's a good one.

      Secondly, just as a last note, one that deserves its own specific thread honestly, I know how to define the disconnection between Claude and Ken's opinions on some things, and when you hear it put in this perspective, it will ring a HUGE bell for Claude (because he probably knows these like the back of his hand)...

      Claude, you will recognize it for what it is now, suddenly your memory will come back to you, and you will understand why you are feeling the disconnect, and we will all want Ken to start a specific thread on it, which I could participate in for hours.

      This will make sense.

      "Another term for Reverse Tie Down is....." drum roll please....

      TAKE WAYS!!!!!

      Ken is the king of those, in fact he has a whole style based on them, and gosh darn it, that needs to be a specific thread that blows up!

      Ahhh....now I get why I wasnt connecting it (face palm) ...I have used those a million times", right Claude?

      Cant wait to get back tonight and have some more fun in this thread! This is going to be highly valuable for anyone developing as a sales person.

      -John
      John; Yup. A million times. I don't think there is a disconnect between anything Ken said and what I said. The phrase "your NOT getting it" just isn't wording I would use. It just hits a nerve with me. "something feels off here" is better, but I don't know that I would say it. I'm not judging these techniques. There are a thousand ways of saying the same thing, with the meaning and structure remaining intact. For example...


      " ..wait a minute bob, I think we have gone off track, I am not sure this is going to work for you". See? I would say that.

      "well something feels off here. I have to be honest, I am not sure what it is." this one is kind of growing on me. In fact, I've used the language when catching an employee in a lie.

      It isn't about what's right or wrong here, just preferences.

      A few days ago, I was in a crowded auditorium saying to a friend "I know nobody talks like this, but you're a valuable friend, and I really enjoy being with you". A lady turned around and looked at me like she was saying "Bulshit!"...but it wasn't at all. We all say things in a different way.
      Signature
      One Call Closing book https://www.amazon.com/One-Call-Clos...=1527788418&sr

      Terence Fletcher: "There are no two words in the English language more harmful than Good Job." Whiplash.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7652995].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        The phrase "your NOT getting it" just isn't wording I would use. It just hits a nerve with me. "
        I daresay, it's supposed to hit a nerve ... I know what you meant.
        I just could not resist. Think about it for one sec. You are rather insulated
        from a million and one techniques, because you use them, at the very least
        know them. If "Your NOT Getting it" hits a nerve with you ...

        Imagine what it does to the uninitiated.

        In case anyone missed it, in post #34 i tried to clarify the revers tie down.
        Signature

        Selling Ain't for Sissies!
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7653358].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author max5ty
    Some good techniques here from some obviously good salesmen, but...

    One thing I've seen time and time again, is that good salespeople start getting too smart for their own good.

    Keep things simple...don't over analyze things.

    You've all heard the phrase, "Green, Ripe, Rotten". It's the stages most salespeople go through.

    Some of the best salespeople are new ones. They don't try to get fancy.

    Not trying to brag, just proving a point - I've gone up against salesmen who've sold for years and were supposedly real whizzes, and outsold them by a long shot just by keeping it simple.

    You don't need all the right answers and all the right phrases to sell a boat load of stuff.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7652942].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

      Some good techniques here from some obviously good salesmen, but...

      One thing I've seen time and time again, is that good salespeople start getting too smart for their own good.

      Keep things simple...don't over analyze things.

      You've all heard the phrase, "Green, Ripe, Rotten". It's the stages most salespeople go through.

      Some of the best salespeople are new ones. They don't try to get fancy.

      Not trying to brag, just proving a point - I've gone up against salesmen who've sold for years and were supposedly real whizzes, and outsold them by a long shot just by keeping it simple.

      You don't need all the right answers and all the right phrases to sell a boat load of stuff.
      Well, I dont think any of us overuse these things...but having learned them all over time, they have become a natural part of the way we sell...

      As was mentioned, overusing them isnt good, but every pitch should include two or three, when you master a few of them, you begin to execute them in a very natural way.

      Its much like seo...3% density, mix it into the content naturally, not spammy. Thats a given, but this thread is here so newbs can learn the value of incorporating them into their selling. I think it's highly valuable.

      If you arent doing this on some level, you are losing potential closes.

      At first its bulky, then your execution becomes natural. Having the overall understanding, and YES, a few text book proven ones in your arsenal is more than good.

      However, thanks for the reminder, you dont want your pitches to sound spammy, and they MAY at first, its a disciplin learning to execute, but this is a fundamental thing that every developing sales person needs to learn and incorporate.

      max5ty, you have some great input, and also Im sure you know that classic tie downs that are time tested and proven for a century (as many of these are) are still used today for a good reason, because they work in a timeless fashion.

      Trends come and go, but principles endure and transcend all trends.

      There are principles behind learning tie downs. At first every technique is bulky, but smooth execution comes from the disciplin of learning to make it through the bulkiness, till you can OWN them, and pull them off the cuff naturally, and use things that are proven, and never stop being effective.

      In any event, there are no words for me to describe the value of learning this.

      -John
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7652978].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author max5ty
        Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

        Well, I dont think any of us overuse these things...but having learned them all over time, they have become a natural part of the way we sell...

        As was mentioned, overusing them isnt good, but every pitch should include two or three, when you master a few of them, you begin to execute them in a very natural way.

        Its much like seo...3% density, mix it into the content naturally, not spammy. Thats a given, but this thread is here so newbs can learn the value of incorporating them into their selling. I think it's highly valuable.

        If you arent doing this on some level, you are losing potential closes.

        At first its bulky, then your exectuion becomes natural. Having the overall understanding, and YES, a few text book proven ones in your arsenal is more than good.

        however, thanks for the reminder, you dont want your pitches to sound spammy, and they MAY at first, its a disciplin learning to execute, but this is a fundamental thing that every developing sales person needs to learn and incorporate.

        max5ty, you have some great input, and also Im sure you know that classic tie downs that are time tested and proven for a century (as many of these are) are still used today for a good reason, because they work in a timeless fashion.

        Trends come and go, but principles endure and transcend all trends.

        There are principles behind learning tie downs.

        -John
        I agree the tips offered are valuable. Some great stuff being offered.

        All I'm saying is that I've talked to a lot of salesmen who have all the right answers and have some of the best lines you could ever hear, and yet their sales have dropped big time. Lots of times a new salesman will come along and outsell rings around them without knowing all the "catch phrases".

        I'm in no way making light of the pro's on here and what they know. Just reminding people to not forget the basics.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7653003].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author John Durham
          Originally Posted by max5ty View Post


          I'm in no way making light of the pro's on here and what they know. Just reminding people to not forget the basics.
          I understand, and if you are ON FIRE as a newb you can kick an old pro's ass in the short run based on zeal alone... however, I must also add - these ARE the basics.

          I know what you are saying though. I was once the newb that kicked the old pro's ass...It's not because my technique was better, its because I worked harder, and I was more on fire, I had a bigger point to prove..., and they had already been where I was trying to go and had lost their fire.

          However when I DID learn this stuff, along the way, over many years, it was like putting nitro into a guy who was already on fire, and it really kicked me into a higher gear.

          I guarantee there are prob some newbs who could beat me right now, because I just dont care about competing as much...but if they fired me up and got under my skin, I could also kick the nitro back in, and, with these techniques, teach them a few lessons...

          Anyway, I do get what you are saying.

          In another thought, most of the newbs at the warrior forum have no idea what it means to get DAILY sales.

          Alot of people around here make two sales per month look like a miracle, so in THIS environment, there isnt much chance they are going to beat a guy who is accustomed to closing, however in an offline sales organization, where there is some actual pressure and intensity, I can see that happening.

          I do get your point.

          So, let get back on point!

          -John

          Originally Posted by kirbymarketingconcierge View Post

          stay on point?

          and what the response is when the agreement is beached by either party.

          IMO
          It serves as an indicator of how far along you have gotten him in the sales process and lets you know you need to find another hot button. so even a negative response can be useful, even though it wasnt what you were after.

          If you have questioned him right in the beginning though, you have an inside track on what he will and wont agree with, as we talked about in another thread.

          -John
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7653051].message }}
          • your 1st call.

            good conversation.

            they say they have a problem, they want a solution.
            you tell them your product or service can help with that problem.


            you then set an appt. - specific time and place that you both agree to.

            you call at that time and place, and they don't show.

            what do you do with the tie down, that was committed to???
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7653122].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author sandalwood
              Originally Posted by kirbymarketingconcierge View Post

              your 1st call.

              good conversation.

              they say they have a problem, they want a solution.
              you tell them your product or service can help with that problem.


              you then set an appt. - specific time and place that you both agree to.

              you call at that time and place, and they don't show.

              what do you do with the tie down, that was committed to???
              I think everyone knows the answer to that one. Happens in the insurance biz all the time. If you believe they are committed you call and ask what happened. In my experience, if I get some kind of b.s. answer I hang up. F*** 'em I don't need to waste my time.

              On the other hand, if their answer is logical and they make another appt, I will honor it. If they are still a no show, I resort back to the F*** 'em mentality.

              I do the same w/our web design business. I simply don't want the headaches of dealing w/some gimoke who won't be a client for at least a year.

              Just my 2...

              Tom
              Signature
              Get 30% or More Retirement Income If you are serious about your retirement, you'll love this product.

              The Money Ferret Finance Article Directory
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7656919].message }}
              • Originally Posted by sandalwood View Post

                I think everyone knows the answer to that one. Happens in the insurance biz all the time. If you believe they are committed you call and ask what happened. In my experience, if I get some kind of b.s. answer I hang up. F*** 'em I don't need to waste my time.

                On the other hand, if their answer is logical and they make another appt, I will honor it. If they are still a no show, I resort back to the F*** 'em mentality.

                I do the same w/our web design business. I simply don't want the headaches of dealing w/some gimoke who won't be a client for at least a year.

                Just my 2...

                Tom

                thanks for your input Tom

                another thing that I would like opinions on is this:

                assuming we ask good, non-pressured tie downs.

                do you think many salespeople don't hold them accountable, making the salesperson appear weak, that their deal has no value, and not a solid biz. person?


                isn't it (tie downs) really just getting commitments and that is just human interaction.

                whether a sale, or meeting a friend for coffee - have to make plans for future actions.

                thanks again to John Durham

                drilling down on specific skills and techniques are really helpful.
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7656940].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author misterme
          Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

          All I'm saying is that I've talked to a lot of salesmen who have all the right answers and have some of the best lines you could ever hear, and yet their sales have dropped big time. Lots of times a new salesman will come along and outsell rings around them without knowing all the "catch phrases".
          They say that often the newer salesperson gets sales because they're more enthusiastic and they keep to the script. But eventually they start to deviate from that, and that's when the magic disappears.

          Older sales people are using lines and tactics in a changing world. I know some in my industry keep naively marketing with messages that show they're out of touch with the way things are nowadays. The world has changed a LOT.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7653485].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

            I daresay, it's supposed to hit a nerve ... I know what you meant.
            I just could not resist. Think about it for one sec. You are rather insulated
            from a million and one techniques, because you use them, at the very least
            know them. If "Your NOT Getting it" hits a nerve with you ...

            Imagine what it does to the uninitiated.

            In case anyone missed it, in post #34 i tried to clarify the revers tie down.
            Ken; I get it. I truly do. In fact, I would respond to it as you would imagine, as a challenge. And it would work wonders in changing the dynamic of the interview (In a good way mostly). It just isn't something I would say to someone. Like "You're stupid" or "I'm smarter than you". It would just never come out of my mouth. But, you are wrong. This is very advanced Kung Fu.

            And most people reading this will see it as "tricks" to convince people. Nope. Highly advanced selling.

            In fact, I might go as far as to say that most sales are barely made.
            It can be a word, a phrase, a question, body language...the list goes on forever. If we leave one of these things to chance, we end up with more people almost sold.


            Originally Posted by misterme View Post

            They say that often the newer salesperson gets sales because they're more enthusiastic and they keep to the script. But eventually they start to deviate from that, and that's when the magic disappears.

            Older sales people are using lines and tactics in a changing world. I know some in my industry keep naively marketing with messages that show they're out of touch with the way things are nowadays. The world has changed a LOT.
            I read max5ty's later posts and I see this more clearly. The salespeople that new people look up to, that know the tricks of the trade, are many times losers. They can impress a newbie, but they aren't advancing in their knowledge. They aren't in fighting trim.

            The problem with not continuously studying and training, is that you can't tell the difference between a stylistic change and a mistake.

            So the older reps start making mistakes. And the new guys run them over.

            My Kung Fu instructor had us (the advanced class) break patio blocks one day. I was in my 7th or 8th year of serious training. I broke three, one flat against the other. My hand only moved a few inches to do it. I'm not kidding, I was pretty advanced, and thought I was better than I was. My instructor saw the look of satisfaction on my face and said "Think you're good?"

            He took a stack of 5 patio blocks, rested the palm of his hand on the top block and said "Pick a brick". I said "Four".

            I saw a slight shake of his body, and he had me lift the blocks off one at a time. The fourth block was broken, the others not.

            I asked how much longer I had to train to do that. He said "10 more years".
            I never got that good. And there are levels of advanced. Levels I haven't achieved.

            I'm seeing a bit of that here.
            Signature
            One Call Closing book https://www.amazon.com/One-Call-Clos...=1527788418&sr

            Terence Fletcher: "There are no two words in the English language more harmful than Good Job." Whiplash.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7653820].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              But, you are wrong. This is very advanced Kung Fu.


              I asked how much longer I had to train to do that. He said "10 more years".
              I never got that good. And there are levels of advanced. Levels I haven't achieved.

              I'm seeing a bit of that here.
              One day when we have time we really do need to start a Kung Fu thread.

              I will take your word that it is advanced. I did not think so.
              I do have what I consider advanced. One of these days
              when it is appropriate we should talk about them.

              Maybe I have been doing this for so long my view point is skewed.
              It might also be the reason I cant teach anybody the craft.

              A real eye opener. You quite possibly answered a question that i have been
              searching for the answer to for years.

              That last line took me by surprise. Blindsided would be a more accurate description.
              Signature

              Selling Ain't for Sissies!
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7654376].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author Joel
                Yes, this is a sold gold thread, that evryone who sells should read!

                I suggest that we remember that 'value trumps price'. The more we create value up front & in our presentation the less we need to focus on tie down/closing techniques. In addition to always educating ourselves on tiedown/closing techniques ... always be looking to create value.

                Joel
                Signature

                "Without data or facts, you are just another person with an opinion"

                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7656550].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author TyBrown
                  Originally Posted by Joel View Post

                  Yes, this is a sold gold thread, that evryone who sells should read!

                  I suggest that we remember that 'value trumps price'. The more we create value up front & in our presentation the less we need to focus on tie down/closing techniques. In addition to always educating ourselves on tiedown/closing techniques ... always be looking to create value.

                  Joel
                  I think this is a very good point. So many salesmen are eager to tie people down in the beginning of the conversation when they are forgetting that if their solution is good enough and matched well enough to their prospect there is little need to tie down, rebut, use 'closing techniques', etc.
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7656853].message }}
                  • from spin selling (huthwaite)-

                    get them to tell you (they tie themselves down)

                    what features and benefits help them.
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7656888].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

                One day when we have time we really do need to start a Kung Fu thread.

                I will take your word that it is advanced. I did not think so.
                I do have what I consider advanced. One of these days
                when it is appropriate we should talk about them.

                Maybe I have been doing this for so long my view point is skewed.
                It might also be the reason I cant teach anybody the craft.

                A real eye opener. You quite possibly answered a question that i have been
                searching for the answer to for years.

                That last line took me by surprise. Blindsided would be a more accurate description.
                Selling has at least hundreds of facets. Even experts aren't great at them all.

                This is a Kung Fu thing, but it is a selling thing as well....

                A student once asked me how I could slap my palm on a canvas bag of ball bearings and make the floor shake (very slightly). I said. "Every one of our joints can move in multiple directions. Every movement and position of every joint either adds to the force generated or takes away from it. I'm doing 1,000 things at one time that add to the force generated in the same direction. And I'm doing it without thinking about it."

                The kid asked a smart question. He asked "Then why can your instructor, who is 20 years older than you, hit so much harder?"

                It actually took a few seconds of thought. "He is doing 10,000 things at one time to generate force".

                I asked my instructor later if I was full of Shlit. He lowered his voice and said
                "No. That's the secret".

                And I'm convinced that's the secret of extremely high level selling. Doing 1,000 things at one time to forward the sale. And we have to do 999 of them without thinking. And we have to be willing to do the work to get that good.

                Most salespeople know 4 or 5 things to do. That's why what we do looks like magic.

                And to be clear, I know nothing about cars, sports, repairing just about anything, how to program my TV, how to play chess, cards, or how to change my alarm clock back to Daylight Savings Time. So don't get too impressed.

                If I were born 150 years ago, I'd be a scalp on some pole.
                Signature
                One Call Closing book https://www.amazon.com/One-Call-Clos...=1527788418&sr

                Terence Fletcher: "There are no two words in the English language more harmful than Good Job." Whiplash.
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7656677].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            Originally Posted by misterme View Post

            They say that often the newer salesperson gets sales because they're more enthusiastic and they keep to the script. But eventually they start to deviate from that, and that's when the magic disappears.

            Older sales people are using lines and tactics in a changing world. I know some in my industry keep naively marketing with messages that show they're out of touch with the way things are nowadays. The world has changed a LOT.
            I think, after learning the bare basics, you either keep learning or start making mistakes, and you get sloppy. It's the desire for continued advancement that keeps us sharp. Talking to more skilled people than ourselves. Being willing to improve. Because improvement also means changing your mind. And that's pretty hard for most.

            Yup, I really talk like that.
            Signature
            One Call Closing book https://www.amazon.com/One-Call-Clos...=1527788418&sr

            Terence Fletcher: "There are no two words in the English language more harmful than Good Job." Whiplash.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7656698].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

      Some good techniques here from some obviously good salesmen, but...

      One thing I've seen time and time again, is that good salespeople start getting too smart for their own good.

      Keep things simple...don't over analyze things.

      You've all heard the phrase, "Green, Ripe, Rotten". It's the stages most salespeople go through.

      Some of the best salespeople are new ones. They don't try to get fancy.

      Not trying to brag, just proving a point - I've gone up against salesmen who've sold for years and were supposedly real whizzes, and outsold them by a long shot just by keeping it simple.

      You don't need all the right answers and all the right phrases to sell a boat load of stuff.
      I want to address that.
      Yup, when I was a new salesman (selling insurance) I was outselling the rest of the office combined. Not because "Simplicity sells" but because I outworked the rest of the guys.

      Some salespeople eventually learn something called an "Excuse". So they start goofing off, acting like they are working, but they aren't.

      The thread here is written by great salespeople, not jaded (OK, I'm a little jaded) has beens. I've seen the salespeople that have a few decades of experience, never improving what they do...never studying, never learning.

      If you watch Glengary Glenn Ross that's what you see.

      I don't know how the rest see it, but I'm a surgeon. It takes great skill to do what I do, and to get the results I get.

      When I was just starting out? I had energy and ambition. I was setting records, but if I knew what I know now, I would have sold three times as much.
      We need to make what we sell easy to understand. But actually selling at high levels isn't simple. I wish it was.
      Signature
      One Call Closing book https://www.amazon.com/One-Call-Clos...=1527788418&sr

      Terence Fletcher: "There are no two words in the English language more harmful than Good Job." Whiplash.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7653137].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author misterme
    It seems to be some sort of idea, where newer sales people believe it's about lines and tactics, and if you just say this, then that happens. And elder sales people enthrall others with their stories of helpless prospects, who, under their magical prowess, were made to buy. These guys could sell snow to Eskimos, people would say. In other words, they had ways to convince the uninterested in buying what they didn't need or want.

    That's an outdated sales model to admire.

    I've had prospects sit in front of me where I didn't have to say or much of anything. They were pre sold. I'd watch as they literally sold each other on me in front of my eyes. I felt as if I was merely the emcee keeping the flow moving, not more than that. After the booking I'd try to deconstruct what happened. What had occurred before they met with me that made them into a natural? I started asking my clients all kinds of survey questions to piece it together because if I could help make naturals happen again and again, how much easier would it be to make sales? I needed to know how to do this. If it could be done.

    That led to understanding their mind set. That led to understanding how they buy. That led to understanding how they make decisions. And that led to understanding how to help all that along.

    Because the sale is made in their mind.

    So all I can do is present information in a way that helps them infer choices which are in my favor. It's far stronger if they come to those decisions than my attempting to make them do so by overcoming objections or by sleight-of-mouth or any handy dandy sales tip of the month.

    Claude mentioned that I've given a text book example of tie downs. Text book, maybe so, but I also mentioned that's not what I do. See how people get annoyed by it? I use it more as a manner of speech to check the prospects are following what I'm saying, and on the same page, that's all. It's not a barrage of questions or harping on the same benefit over and over and over again.

    "... and that's why I handle it that way. That makes sense, right?"

    It has the extra side result of keeping them involved in the decision process and getting agreement - but I'm not using tie downs to get small yesses in some quest to accrue a calculated number of yesses due to statistics indicating getting 75 yesses in 60 minutes = 80% close ratios or for purposes like that.

    Sales isn't about lines and tactics.
    It's about strategy.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7657939].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author David Miller
      I see a lot of mention about the good old: "other than price, is there any other......."

      It may be a classic line but it's not a tie down. Back in the day it was taught as a method to smoke out what the so-called real objection may be. However, I think that if you use it as a tie down (in some fashion) you'll leave yourself in a position that forces you to justify price rather than gain positive traction from benefits.

      To me "tie downs" are nothing more than agreements along the way. The two magical words "fair enough" can carry you through the most difficult sales situations. I've closed sales with those simple words more times than I can remember.
      Signature
      The big lesson in life, baby, is never be scared of anyone or anything.
      -- FRANK SINATRA, quoted in The Way You Wear Your Hat
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7658168].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by David Miller View Post

        I see a lot of mention about the good old: "other than price, is there any other......."

        It may be a classic line but it's not a tie down. Back in the day it was taught as a method to smoke out what the so-called real objection may be. However, I think that if you use it as a tie down (in some fashion) you'll leave yourself in a position that forces you to justify price rather than gain positive traction from benefits.

        To me "tie downs" are nothing more than agreements along the way. The two magical words "fair enough" can carry you through the most difficult sales situations. I've closed sales with those simple words more times than I can remember.
        Yup. "Fair enough?" is actually my closing question. As well as that Epic powerhouse..."It that OK?"

        When doing a seminar, I can hear the sighs from the podium, when I tell them that this is all I say at the end. They want Magic.
        Signature
        One Call Closing book https://www.amazon.com/One-Call-Clos...=1527788418&sr

        Terence Fletcher: "There are no two words in the English language more harmful than Good Job." Whiplash.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7658208].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author David Miller
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          Yup. "Fair enough?" is actually my closing question. As well as that Epic powerhouse..."It that OK?"

          When doing a seminar, I can hear the sighs from the podium, when I tell them that this is all I say at the end. They want Magic.
          "Fair enough" and "is that ok" is magic....
          Some people insist on looking for complex solutions to simple problems.
          Signature
          The big lesson in life, baby, is never be scared of anyone or anything.
          -- FRANK SINATRA, quoted in The Way You Wear Your Hat
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7658233].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            Originally Posted by David Miller View Post

            "Fair enough" and "is that ok" is magic....
            Some people insist on looking for complex solutions to simple problems.
            They also want to feel like the reason someone didn't buy is because something happened beyond their control. Sometimes, yes. Most times, no.

            A young man said to me (in my office during training) "Is that OK?....that's all? But that's nothing". I said "That's exactly right. Closing is nothing. And it has to sound like it's nothing to the customer".
            Signature
            One Call Closing book https://www.amazon.com/One-Call-Clos...=1527788418&sr

            Terence Fletcher: "There are no two words in the English language more harmful than Good Job." Whiplash.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7658297].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author sandalwood
              Kirby,

              You asked,

              assuming we ask good, non-pressured tie downs.

              do you think many salespeople don't hold them accountable, making the salesperson appear weak, that their deal has no value, and not a solid biz. person?


              As I read that question I see several answers. But the one that jumps out at me is if your non-pressured tie downs are good and assuming you are still asking about no-shows, I think the salesperson will only seem weak if he or she gives them more than two attempts.

              By that I mean if they no-showed me time one and I call and their reason is valid and we set another appt and they no-show me again, my product and me become weak if I call them a third time. I become a beggar.

              I can't think of a time I've made an exception to my rule. I didn't care if they were a high dollar client or a Salvation Army client. No-show me twice and I won't ever call you back.

              Funny story about that. One of our highest commission sales (ins biz) came from a lady who no-showed us. She called one day thereafter and wanted to know if she could come in and was sorry as hell she missed her appts, yada, yada, yada.

              I said no, we don't do business with clients who don't pay their premium. She said, WHAT!!! in a loud tone of voice. I said no-shows never pay their premium and we get charge backs and we don't like charge backs.

              To make a long story short, she came by that afternoon and paid full term. Has never paid less than full term since. I bet you know why we wrote her policy.

              Don't know if that is the answer you were looking for but it is my answer and how I think about it. We do the same thing btw with our web biz. We don't care how much money is on the table. No-show me twice and you're outta here like Vladimir.

              Tom
              Signature
              Get 30% or More Retirement Income If you are serious about your retirement, you'll love this product.

              The Money Ferret Finance Article Directory
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7658361].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by misterme View Post

      It seems to be some sort of idea, where newer sales people believe it's about lines and tactics, and if you just say this, then that happens. And elder sales people enthrall others with their stories of helpless prospects, who, under their magical prowess, were made to buy. These guys could sell snow to Eskimos, people would say. In other words, they had ways to convince the uninterested in buying what they didn't need or want.

      That's an outdated sales model to admire.

      It has the extra side result of keeping them involved in the decision process and getting agreement - but I'm not using tie downs to get small yesses in some quest to accrue a calculated number of yesses due to statistics indicating getting 75 yesses in 60 minutes = 80% close ratios or for purposes like that.

      Sales isn't about lines and tactics.
      It's about strategy.
      Yeah, I have had lots of salespeople say to me "That line you told me didn't work. What do I say now?"
      There is context to the things you say. It isn't chess. It's fluid and organic.
      You may be using a script, but the buyer isn't.

      The old timers who brag about sales like it's a conquest are misleading the new guys. And they are deluding themselves into thinking they made a sale because of this great line they used. Many times, it's despite what they said.

      It's the great lie about closing, that you can say some pithy thing and that will convince someone to change their mind and buy.

      But Misterme...I disagree on one little point. The multiplying of "Yesses" to create a sale. I've seen it work on small purchases, maybe $20. But never on a substantial purchase.

      I tend to use the few tie-downs I do use as a form of thermometer. And most of them aren't planned, they are really just part of the conversation.

      I do find it useful at the very end to use a tie-down to gauge how much work there is left for me to do. But not always.

      I think the reason we tend to talk about tactics instead of strategies...is that tactics are easier to describe and are simpler. It's harder to convey the meaning of a mindset.

      You said "These guys could sell snow to Eskimos, people would say. In other words, they had ways to convince the uninterested in buying what they didn't need or want." I'm 99% sure you were speaking tongue in cheek....

      You know and I know that's a myth. One promoted by losers with a smattering of knowledge. But I've read those books too. They perpetuate the lie.

      And stop being more insightful than I am. It grates on me.
      Signature
      One Call Closing book https://www.amazon.com/One-Call-Clos...=1527788418&sr

      Terence Fletcher: "There are no two words in the English language more harmful than Good Job." Whiplash.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7658195].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post


        It's the great lie about closing, that you can say some pithy thing and that will convince someone to change their mind and buy.
        I know dozens of old timers who would disagree with you.
        It is quite sad. They have stalemated and will never progress any farther.
        Their learning is over. Unfortunately for them, they never progressed
        to the point ... of truly getting it. But they make bank so they think they
        are the best of the best. Some of them are really good acquaintances i have
        known for years, I used to enjoy watching them sell. Now i just cant.
        Its awful, last time i tried, i think i was cringing the entire time and felt
        like i needed a shower when it was over. The sale was made, so he
        thought he did awesome. I kid you not, i saw him lose the sale at least
        a dozen times, despite him, the buyer really was intent on buying...
        before the rep even opened his mouth.

        But if you ask him.. He slammmed it home



        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        But Misterme...I disagree on one little point. The multiplying of "Yesses" to create a sale. I've seen it work on small purchases, maybe $20. But never on a substantial purchase.
        Take it from someone who has literally monitored and worked along side
        several thousand's of sales people over the years.

        Yes's do work on substantial purchases.


        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        I tend to use the few tie-downs I do use as a form of thermometer. And most of them aren't planned, they are really just part of the conversation.
        And THAT is how you use them. Yese's are a guide, although you can AND should
        occasionally use a yes as a tie down, the BEST way, the CORRECT way,
        is to never use a yes question, UNLESS it furthers, enhances or directs the
        conversation.

        I should add, THAT is just my opinion.


        On a side note:

        I have never seen a group of sales people agree on much of anything.
        From sports to sales to technique or anything in-between.

        the fact that we have half a dozen or so all agreeing.. is a new experience for me.
        I like it.
        Signature

        Selling Ain't for Sissies!
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7659288].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post


          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre
          But Misterme...I disagree on one little point. The multiplying of "Yesses" to create a sale. I've seen it work on small purchases, maybe $20. But never on a substantial purchase.

          Take it from someone who has literally monitored and worked along side
          several thousand's of sales people over the years.

          Yes's do work on substantial purchases.
          Ken; How dare you disagree with my opinion? Just because you have monitored several thousand calls where "Yesses" have helped, doesn't....Oh heck, you sold me.


          Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

          I have never seen a group of sales people agree on much of anything.
          From sports to sales to technique and everything in-between.

          the fact that we have half a dozen or so all agreeing.. is a new experience for me.
          I like it.
          I have a theory about that. I call it ...um..."Claude's Theory".

          The closer you get to real knowledge, the more you agree with people at your level. Why? Because there really is only one set of principles that work. The better you understand them, the more you agree with other people who also understand them.

          The reverse side of my theory is that arguments are always due to an incomplete understanding of the facts. And most people who engage in arguments are both wrong. Arguing is the last defense against learning.

          Again, I really talk like that. And my wife has still not read a single book I've written. (she was walking by as I typed this):rolleyes:

          Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

          If you ever want to see a real sale person, look for the guy or gal every one is
          always complaining about... the one that is always finding ALL the lay downs.


          THAT is most likely the real sale person.
          A thing of beauty, that post was. (I just got my Yoda Mojo on)
          Signature
          One Call Closing book https://www.amazon.com/One-Call-Clos...=1527788418&sr

          Terence Fletcher: "There are no two words in the English language more harmful than Good Job." Whiplash.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7660080].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author misterme
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post


            I have a theory about that. I call it ...um..."Claude's Theory".
            The closer you get to real knowledge, the more you agree with people at your level.
            People tend to agree with that which they agree with in the first place, whether it's spot on or not. Birds of a feather. Affinity. Membership in a club. Political parties. Fan clubs. Groups. It all works based on that.

            The reverse side of my theory is that arguments are always due to an incomplete understanding of the facts. And most people who engage in arguments are both wrong.
            You've just nailed down the flaw in our nation's political process.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7660199].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by misterme View Post

              People tend to agree with that which they agree with in the first place, whether it's spot on or not. Birds of a feather. Affinity. Membership in a club. Political parties. Fan clubs. Groups. It all works based on that.
              Everything you said is true, but I'm not sure it applies here. I can tell that you would never agree with me...unless you agreed with me, and I'm the same way. So, I think we are thinking the same things and we are an affinity group. But I am making no effort to keep that affinity going. I only agree with posts because the reasoning is sound, not because of any bonding with the poster. I may be misinterpreting your post.

              Ready? The affinity we have is just on the subject of selling. We formulate these methods mostly in our Cerebellum. All political, religious, and cultural beliefs are created far back in our brain stem. (Thank Klaff for reminding me of all of this Triune Brain stuff)

              If we were all in a room and someone started talking about religion (or politics, or music, or how to raise children), all this agreement would fall apart.

              In fact, I have several close friends, who will never know what I think about many of these subjects. So we are birds of a feather...in this one area.



              Originally Posted by misterme View Post

              You've just nailed down the flaw in our nation's political process.
              I think human nature is broken, and that's why democracy is messy.
              In any political speech, and political argument, and political debate...learning doesn't take place. It's a contest of defending positions. It isn't because of the political system, it's because that's the way our brain works.
              The goal is to convince the other person, never to learn.
              Occasionally, I'll see someone with whom I agree on a political point. But I almost never agree with their reason for believing it.

              Back to selling expertise....I think the reason we can agree is that learning selling patterns is almost a purely intellectual pursuit. Results can be tested, recorded, improved on. Like advertising results.

              Anyway, I've pontificated enough today. These discussions are some of the highlights of my day. Thank you.
              Signature
              One Call Closing book https://www.amazon.com/One-Call-Clos...=1527788418&sr

              Terence Fletcher: "There are no two words in the English language more harmful than Good Job." Whiplash.
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7661482].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                I think human nature is broken, and that's why democracy is messy.
                In any political speech, and political argument, and political debate...learning doesn't take place. It's a contest of defending positions. It isn't because of the political system, it's because that's the way our brain works.
                The goal is to convince the other person, never to learn.
                Occasionally, I'll see someone with whom I agree on a political point. But I almost never agree with their reason for believing it.
                .
                really .. come on !!!

                I have a brother i have not seen for over 20 years.
                If you were not kinda bald I would be asking about your heritage.:rolleyes:

                On a serious note.. I agree with you... a lot... i do NOT do that often..
                but for some reason i do with you ...in my opinion that is ... amazing
                Signature

                Selling Ain't for Sissies!
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7661567].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author misterme
                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                Everything you said is true, but I'm not sure it applies here. I can tell that you would never agree with me...unless you agreed with me, and I'm the same way. So, I think we are thinking the same things and we are an affinity group. But I am making no effort to keep that affinity going. I only agree with posts because the reasoning is sound, not because of any bonding with the poster. I may be misinterpreting your post.

                Ready? The affinity we have is just on the subject of selling.
                That's all I'm saying. You'll agree with something you've already agreed with or sounds like anything you've agreed with. I'm not talking about more than that. So when it comes to talking about selling, we'll agree with the guy who basically says the same thing we say, because, it rings true with us. So if someone believes XYZ about sales, someone else comes along who thinks the same way, bingo. There's the affinity. That's why we, as a group, are validating each other.

                "You start with techniques. Techniques are easier to learn than principles."
                Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

                Exactly. Thats like saying the best karate fighters didnt learn techniques, they just learned principles.
                It doesn't sound like that was his point. Because he went on to say, "Eventually you internalize enough techniques that you begin to understand why they work (or don't). then the technique is irrelevant.
                Understanding completely how one sales technique works then gives you hundreds of techniques...or really just patterns of thought."

                The point being people start with techniques but if they progress, they progress to internalize the strategy and reasons behind the technique. When they do that, now it becomes part of their core. The why spawns the how.

                And in Spin selling, they used techniques. They were methods of asking questions and building value (and pain). They just weren't beginner techniques.
                Spin Selling defined a strategy. He gave examples of problem questions, implication questions, etc., and maybe someone says "those are techniques." OK. I say they're examples of how to carry out the strategy because without understanding WHY you're asking these questions, you can't devise more of them suited for your purposes and carrying out the strategy. And that's obviously what they want you to get out of their book: the strategy. WHY it works. How it works. The whole last chapter's about internalizing it.
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7663935].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author David Miller
                  We seem to be getting deep in the weeds of the Psychology of Selling in a thread that is supposed to be about "Tie Downs."

                  When I started to write this post, my first thought was to do something like:

                  We seem to be off track, don't we?

                  However, now I'm wondering if it's really possible to sort the sales process into tidy compartments. Opening lines, tie downs, closing, rebuttals, etc. Before steam begins to come out of JD's ears and his head explodes, I want to be clear that I think the idea of discussing a single topic in this way is a great idea.

                  However, the seeming inability to keep it on track tells me that, like sales itself, it is not always a clear cut path to getting the signature on the bottom line.

                  For those of us that have been around for a while (in some cases longer than we care to remember - or admit) we understand the need for all the techniques, and moreover, we know that these things typically come in no particular order. The experienced sales person knows by instinct when in any given situation a tie down may be needed, when it may be necessary to use an opening line yet again, when to float a trial close, and when to do it all over again. Experience carries with it the ability to take detours and get back on the main road as soon as it makes sense to do so.

                  What's really important for anyone that's new to the sales profession is to gain an understanding that most things don't happen in the order that you'd like them to, or that you've been trained to believe they will. However, it is extremely important to understand what it is that's happening while it's happening and that's why threads like this one carry massive amounts of value.
                  Signature
                  The big lesson in life, baby, is never be scared of anyone or anything.
                  -- FRANK SINATRA, quoted in The Way You Wear Your Hat
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7664057].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
                    Originally Posted by David Miller View Post

                    We seem to be getting deep in the weeds of the Psychology of Selling in a thread that is supposed to be about "Tie Downs."

                    When I started to write this post, my first thought was to do something like:

                    We seem to be off track, don't we?
                    My thoughts precisely, it seems that the sales trainers get to thinking we are talking to each other and not the newbies; over analyzing, much like we tell telemarketers NOT to do, when we hand them a script. Why do we tell them that? Because thinking too deeply into it , instead of taking it in the prescribed manner, will only confuse them.

                    Now picture this: The intention of this thread is to be read by those people and help them have some solid lines so they wont be confused. Its beginning to sound like a bunch of pro's trying to one up one another to see who has the deeper understanding of the BASIC topic we are trying to teach here. lol.

                    I think the best of it is on the first page honestly. I think we started out teaching some good solid tie downs, and anyone who has read this far has went from perfect clarity to being confused as hell.

                    Read page one guys, you will get alot out of it. Dont make it more complicated than that.

                    -John

                    Ps. David, if you cant keep your objective in mind, from the beginning to the end and always be directing the pitch toward that objective, you miss sales. So I still agree with your original thinking on the matter. There IS a clear cut way, its called a script. lol

                    The mastery of it is to not vary, even in the face of variables.

                    Originally Posted by misterme View Post


                    It doesn't sound like that was his point. Because he went on to say, "Eventually you internalize enough techniques that you begin to understand why they work (or don't). then the technique is irrelevant.
                    Actually when you read my full post, we were saying the same thing...in different words, going around the block a different way. I didnt miss him. perhaps my grammar was off on this line, but if you read the context you see Im agreeing.
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7664166].message }}
                    • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
                      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

                      My thoughts precisely, it seems that the sales trainers get to thinking we are talking to each other and not the newbies; over analyzing, much like we tell telemarketers NOT to do, when we hand them a script. Why do we tell them that? Because thinking too deeply into it , instead of taking it in the prescribed manner, will only confuse them.

                      Now picture this: The intention of this thread is to be read by those people and help them have some solid lines so they wont be confused. Its beginning to sound like a bunch of pro's trying to one up one another to see who has the deeper understanding of the BASIC topic we are trying to teach here. lol.

                      I think the best of it is on the first page honestly. I think we started out teaching some good solid tie downs, and anyone who has read this far has went from perfect clarity to being confused as hell.

                      Read page one guys, you will get alot out of it. Dont make it more complicated than that.

                      -John
                      I don't think its a bunch of old pros trying to one up each other.

                      I think its a bunch of old pros going.. wow.. I can finally talk to some one who

                      GETS IT....

                      much luv bro, sorry to be part of the derailment team.
                      I will now step away. ( but I WILL be back another day ... HA )

                      p.s, i think there is only ONE trainer in this group. ---- you ----
                      the rest of us are just talking sales ... and enjoying it.

                      p.p.s
                      where is my email ??????
                      Signature

                      Selling Ain't for Sissies!
                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7664212].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                  Originally Posted by misterme View Post

                  That's all I'm saying. You'll agree with something you've already agreed with or sounds like anything you've agreed with. I'm not talking about more than that. So when it comes to talking about selling, we'll agree with the guy who basically says the same thing we say, because, it rings true with us. So if someone believes XYZ about sales, someone else comes along who thinks the same way, bingo. There's the affinity. That's why we, as a group, are validating each other.
                  I understand. And everything you say rings true.
                  But that's also a trap. Just because someone agrees with me, doesn't mean I'm right. In my Mastermind group, members generally agree with what I say, but I still want to know why they agree with me. If the reason they agree with me is to maintain rapport, their agreement has no value to me (other than friendship).

                  It's impossible to have these conversations with family and close friends.

                  I agree with David Miller, it's very difficult to separate the parts of selling into distinct sequential steps. It's like asking which part of a pot of water boils first. But we still have to learn, and we still have to teach...so we have to segment this process into components we can talk about.

                  By the way, here is a sort of tie down.

                  When a customer asks if something is included, I may ask "Is that the only way you'll get it, if I include this for free?"

                  To the buyer it actually feels like they are then buying. So a few times, I've used this as my closing question. After they say "Yes", I pull out my main powerhouse close....I say "OK".

                  You can use it if you like.:rolleyes:
                  Signature
                  One Call Closing book https://www.amazon.com/One-Call-Clos...=1527788418&sr

                  Terence Fletcher: "There are no two words in the English language more harmful than Good Job." Whiplash.
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7664775].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author misterme
    Originally Posted by kirbymarketingconcierge View Post

    your 1st call.
    good conversation.

    they say they have a problem, they want a solution.
    you tell them your product or service can help with that problem.

    you then set an appt. - specific time and place that you both agree to.
    you call at that time and place, and they don't show.
    what do you do with the tie down, that was committed to???
    It would be a good idea to recap and pick up where you left off. That might be a good idea even if they weren't no-shows because it gets them back to that excited state they were in.

    Handling no-shows though is a different matter.

    I never wait on an appointment more than five minutes. It sounds harsh to some, but no one needs to wait more than five minutes, tops. Here's why:

    If they know they're going to be late for that 2 PM with you, they'll call you by 2 PM if they're genuinely good people.

    If they're almost good people... they'll call you by 2:05.

    You see, they don't want you to think you're getting stood up and they don't want you to think badly of them. And they don't want to take the chance that you won't wait on them. So they call. They get anxious to call.

    If they've been trying to call but can't get a line, they'll either call as soon as they can or arrive to the appointment. And if you've already left because it's past 2:06, they'll call you to see if you're on your way or went to get a coffee. And you can always turn around and meet up with them. Otherwise you're already on your way with your day.

    And if it was a real last minute emergency, calling you was understandably the last thing on their mind at the time. Or maybe they forgot. But the next day they'll call you to apologize and explain why they didn't show because they're good people and they're interested in doing business with you.

    But if they're intentionally standing you up, they won't call at all.

    So I never call them if I'm waiting. If they're standing me up it'll only go to voicemail because if they're not coming to speak with you, they're not answering your call either. And if they're on their way they'll be there eventually. Besides, I'm only waiting five minutes.

    If they call to reschedule I give them one more appointment. But then it's an appointment that's more convenient for me than for them. And they don't get any more after that, but I don't mention that to them. So if they want to reschedule yet again, I'm not available. I found people who reschedule more than once tend to keep rescheduling because they're keeping you on the back burner while they're shopping your competition.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7658444].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Claude, you have spent a decade going door to door making sales daily in one of the toughest industries out there, you have trained field reps live in the field , you have run your own retail stores and set appointments for your own sales team, you still cherry pick your own leads and have them come into your store, you own and operate your own retail store, you made $200,000 last year selling SEO via group presentations, you are familiar with print advertising, recruiting, internet marketing.

    That pretty much sums it up I think?

    To me that is the most well rounded sales person I can think of. My hats off to you.

    Mucho respectamundo.

    Nice to see Mr. Sandalwood joining us...he's another one of those.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7658534].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      Claude, you have spent a decade going door to door making sales daily in one of the toughest industries out there, you have trained field reps live in the field , you have run your own retail stores and set appointments for your own sales team, you still cherry pick your own leads and have them come into your store, you own and operate your own retail store, you made $200,000 last year selling SEO via group presentations, you are familiar with print advertising, recruiting, internet marketing.

      That pretty much sums it up I think?

      To me that is the most well rounded sales person I can think of. My hats off to you.

      Mucho respectamundo.

      Nice to see Mr. Sandalwood joining us...he's another one of those.
      "Well rounded?" Not really. Selling something by committee would be hard for me. Selling something that takes dozens of calls to get the sale would take me out of my comfort zone.

      I appreciate the compliment.
      Signature
      One Call Closing book https://www.amazon.com/One-Call-Clos...=1527788418&sr

      Terence Fletcher: "There are no two words in the English language more harmful than Good Job." Whiplash.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7658709].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author bob ross
    Being a residential in-home closer for many years I'm really familiar with tie-downs but I found that when I got into B2B they didn't exactly transition over smoothly. When you don't have an hour or more to do a proper warm-up and presentation, it's too easy to sound like a sleazebag when using too many tie downs, so for B2B I've really limited the use of them to a few precise moments in a 30 second pitch. In B2C I still use tie downs constantly.

    I know others have mentioned them (I just kind of skimmed this thread right now but I'll read through it shortly) but here are the classic tie downs:

    Wouldn't you agree....
    I'm sure you agree that...
    ... wouldn't you?
    ... isn't it?
    .... wouldn't it?
    Wouldn't it be...
    ... would you?

    and the classic "fair enough" like mentioned above that works like magic.

    I do agree that 'fair enough' is really powerful and I do use it often when I close in B2B & B2C and it can be a very strong closing tactic when used with the right timing and tonality.

    Ever since I heard Jordan Belfort's take on "money aside..." I stopped using it. I used to say it all the time but I'm having better results closing without saying it but implying it with my tonality instead.

    When someone says "I've got to think it over" or any kind of procrastination type objection, I now often reply with "I understand but does the idea make sense to you?" with a quick nod of my head.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7659475].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author bob ross
    In B2B short-pitches I end my statements with "..., right?" which tends to work really well to get them on the 'yes' train pretty effectively.

    I had mentioned that I use tie downs in a few strategic places and the most powerful point in my pitch where I use a real honest to goodness tie down is in the pre-close, which is the moment before I actually give them pricing...

    "Jim, does the idea make sense to you?
    If it's comfortably affordable for you to take advantage of, I'm sure you'd want to give it a shot right?"
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7659492].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author max5ty
    Good "tie downs" come natural if the salesman's mind is where it should be.

    Bob has the attitude of, "I need this person to buy", or "How can I get them to understand". He's constantly scrambling to use the right words.

    Bill approaches everyone with the attitude that the customer already wants to buy. They're ready now. His motivation and enthusiasm spills over. He's excited because he already knows he has a sale. Tie down phrases for him come easy.

    The two different attitudes I mentioned create two different "natural languages" for a salesman.

    Motivation is a key factor in attitudes, which is why new salesmen sell a lot. They haven't been beaten up and had a million objections thrown at them. Their attitude is "Here goes another sale".

    I think the longer a person sells (green, ripe, rotten), the more they start to analyze their customer. They start to pre-qualify them. Training should always focus on motivation.

    Scripts are good to use if you make them sound natural. I don't think anybody says, "Wow, I loved that movie but it would have been better if they hadn't memorized a script".

    Oh well, just some thoughts.

    Great thread, I've learned a lot.

    P.S. I changed the names to protect the innocent.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7660275].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
      Originally Posted by max5ty View Post

      Good "tie downs" come natural if the salesman's mind is where it should be.

      Bob has the attitude of, "I need this person to buy", or "How can I get them to understand". He's constantly scrambling to use the right words.

      Bill approaches everyone with the attitude that the customer already wants to buy. They're ready now. His motivation and enthusiasm spills over. He's excited because he already knows he has a sale. Tie down phrases for him come easy.

      The two different attitudes I mentioned create two different "natural languages" for a salesman.

      Motivation is a key factor in attitudes, which is why new salesmen sell a lot. They haven't been beaten up and had a million objections thrown at them. Their attitude is "Here goes another sale".

      I think the longer a person sells (green, ripe, rotten), the more they start to analyze their customer. They start to pre-qualify them. Training should always focus on motivation.

      Scripts are good to use if you make them sound natural. I don't think anybody says, "Wow, I loved that movie but it would have been better if they hadn't memorized a script".

      Oh well, just some thoughts.

      Great thread, I've learned a lot.

      P.S. I changed the names to protect the innocent.
      Dude, i don't know who the hell you are.. but i already like you...
      AND ...
      I know you can contribute to the forum.

      Good stuff. Please... keep contributing.

      TBO, i only read your last 6 posts. To me, you sound like a GM.
      If not... a top rep bucking for GM. From what i can tell you should have
      it in the bag.

      Also, you are correct. Motivation IS key. unfortunately .. motivation changes as sales people mature.
      Signature

      Selling Ain't for Sissies!
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7660294].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author sandalwood
        Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

        Dude, i don't know who the hell you are.. but i already like you...
        AND ...
        I know you can contribute to the forum.

        Good stuff. Please... keep contributing.

        TBO, i only read your last 6 posts. To me, you sound like a GM.
        If not... a top rep bucking for GM. From what i can tell you should have
        it in the bag.

        Also, you are correct. Motivation IS key. unfortunately .. motivation changes as sales people mature.
        Florida,

        How are you defining motivation? I'm motivated every time I see a pretty girl walk by the office. Unfortunately, my motivation doesn't last long nor am I sure I could do anything about it if she was so motivated . Help out an old man so I can reignite my motivation.

        Tom
        Signature
        Get 30% or More Retirement Income If you are serious about your retirement, you'll love this product.

        The Money Ferret Finance Article Directory
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7661317].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
          Originally Posted by sandalwood View Post

          Florida,

          How are you defining motivation? I'm motivated every time I see a pretty girl walk by the office. Unfortunately, my motivation doesn't last long nor am I sure I could do anything about it if she was so motivated . Help out an old man so I can reignite my motivation.

          Tom
          And THAT is what the little blue pill is for ...

          Grab your Amex bro. you owe me !
          Signature

          Selling Ain't for Sissies!
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7661387].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author sandalwood
            Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

            And THAT is what the little blue pill is for ...

            Grab your Amex bro. you owe me !
            Show up in Reno and the hotel and beer is on me. How about that for a ball is in your court tie down?

            Tom
            Signature
            Get 30% or More Retirement Income If you are serious about your retirement, you'll love this product.

            The Money Ferret Finance Article Directory
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7661513].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
              Originally Posted by sandalwood View Post

              Show up in Reno and the hotel and beer is on me. How about that for a ball is in your court tie down?

              Tom
              bring your credit card, read me the digits, provide me your John Hancock
              and the beer is on ME
              Signature

              Selling Ain't for Sissies!
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7661553].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Agreed Tom, and asking the right questions is another "technique" so you will be able to listen for the things you need to, in order to ABC.

    There are alot of operating systems, they arent all the same , but MOST of them, even unbeknown to most, include a few time tested techniques. They almost have to, because its the way people buy. Even if you are doing it naturally, outside of an occasional fluke ; a fluke that you cant repeat because you dont know how you sold them. You dont know your technique. It makes it next to impossible to consistently duplicate that sale, and scale out.

    I would bet half the online stuff you buy was done by a professional copywriter who has technique in every line, down the whole process to the close. EVERY LINE.

    To argue that people just need to wing it, and thats better isnt very strong, for those arguing it. It's not my job to convince you here though, just to share what professional sales people all over the world know is unquestionably the truth.

    It's not my own invention, its the wisdom of the ages. Im just repeating it.

    -John
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7661711].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author sandalwood
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      Agreed Tom, and asking the right questions is another "technique" so you will be able to listen for the things you need to, in order to ABC.

      There are alot of operating systems, they arent all the same , but MOST of them, even unbeknown to you, include a few time tested techniques. They almost have to, because its the way people buy. Even if you are doing it naturally, outside of an occasional fluke ; a fluke that you cant repeat because you dont know how you sold them. You dont know your technique. It makes it next to impossible to consistently duplicate that sale, and scale out.
      Uncle John,

      It is funny you say systems. From the same book:

      SYSTEMS should drive everything in your business.
      Without them, you'll be forever running around like a chicken-with-your-head-cut-off.
      That means a sales system, marketing system, management systems, accounting/finance
      systems... and yes a system to monitor the systems. These are your core foundational systems.


      That's all I took out of the book btw. There is some other stuff but it is minor in worth. I remember learning all of the above in Officer Training School. I was learning the AF systems and believe it or not, they mirrored the civilian systems. I don't know who took who's systems but there they were for us to use.

      A friend of mine worked for AT&T in their early years. He remembers the systems he learned. Almost all of them came out of an Army manual. Funny how those pesky things morph around the sales universe.

      My appetite system says it is time for a Port O Subs samwich so I'll sign off for the moment. My can't stop reading this thread system says I'll be baaaaack...


      Tom
      Signature
      Get 30% or More Retirement Income If you are serious about your retirement, you'll love this product.

      The Money Ferret Finance Article Directory
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7661740].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by sandalwood View Post

        Uncle John,

        It is funny you say systems. From the same book:

        SYSTEMS should drive everything in your business.
        Without them, you’ll be forever running around like a chicken-with-your-head-cut-off.
        That means a sales system, marketing system, management systems, accounting/finance
        systems… and yes a system to monitor the systems. These are your core foundational systems.


        That's all I took out of the book btw. There is some other stuff but it is minor in worth. I remember learning all of the above in Officer Training School. I was learning the AF systems and believe it or not, they mirrored the civilian systems. I don't know who took who's systems but there they were for us to use.

        A friend of mine worked for AT&T in their early years. He remembers the systems he learned. Almost all of them came out of an Army manual. Funny how those pesky things morph around the sales universe.

        My appetite system says it is time for a Port O Subs samwich so I'll sign off for the moment. My can't stop reading this thread system says I'll be baaaaack...


        Tom
        Hi Tom it's good to see you.

        Yeah I learned that from a book called emyth. The call centers had been saying it the whole time and I took it for what it was worth, but when I read emyth I began to understand the [principle behind what they all seemed to do.

        They take pitches that an AVERAGE person can say, which produced a predictable number of sales based on an action repeated precisely and consistently a certain number of times in a prescribed way, over a certain number of dials.

        Therefore, they know their SYSTEM works and their whole business depends on THAT and not having "rockstar" sales people.

        If one guy quits its no big deal...the system works with or without him.

        If they want to hit a certain number, they know their system calls for the action to be repeated "this many" times...under "these" circumstances, and we should get almost exactly "this" many sales.

        They can duplicate success any time they want, and they can live without any individual in their room, because they are system dependent, not "people" dependent.

        You can replace anyone in your room within 24 hours and be training someone else to use the system in their place.

        (Read above about pitching like a machine).


        Originally Posted by TyBrown View Post

        I think this is a very good point. So many salesmen are eager to tie people down in the beginning of the conversation when they are forgetting that if their solution is good enough and matched well enough to their prospect there is little need to tie down, rebut, use 'closing techniques', etc.
        Ty I have another thread calling How To Pitch Face To Face Appointments" that talks about what you are saying. "In Context" here, we arent saying there there isnt more involved than tie downs, nor that tie downs are all there are in the sales process... I did not miss that beat, its just not what this thread is about. There is another thread on getting the prospect to talk, so you can listen.

        I DO however recommend a couple before closing, if for no other reasons than checking your prospects pulse to see where he is at.

        If there wasnt science in life that achieved better mastery for people...then we would still think the earth was flat just "eying it", going on our own intuition, and we would be wrong.

        It's okay if you think the world is flat... it wont stop you from getting anywhere...but there is a truth, thats its round if you really want to know it.

        Its okay if for a person want to wing it too...but good luck teaching 100 other sales people like that, if you know what I mean. I hope this isnt coming across as cocky...

        If one wants to scale, one better know a system for producing a sale, that can be duplicated verbatim. Or else, good luck identifying sales peoples problems when you haven't got any handle on what they are even saying to begin with.

        If a certain number of pitches, done in a prescribed manner, doesnt produce a certain number of sales...how are you going to project your numbers and hit targets...by faith?

        If one wants to duplicate and scale on better know a system.

        A good sales manager can count the people who report to work on any given day and project his numbers on any given day within a few percent. There is a science. Because he knows the system and what the pitch produces based on all the prescribed elements being in place.


        -John

        @

        Ken, as far as the "ant", I have come to see him as a very small man, with a very sick mind... I dont even defile myself with his thoughts anymore. His day is coming.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7661758].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Sorry bro, lol. I guess my intention was just to list a bunch of good tie downs for people. Shouldnt try to be controlling. My apologies guys. I saw it as something more for inexperienced people to read and learn tie downs. I love shop talk too... Tend to focus on the end reader.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7664233].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      Sorry bro, lol. I guess my intention was just to list a bunch of good tie downs for people. Shouldnt try to be controlling. My apologies guys.
      as Leroy Jethro Gibbs says ..... "Never apologize"

      TBO. I think your thread transended a bit. the first page is great for begginers.

      the rest of the pages kinda depends on your skill. The more skill you have
      the more you will understand.

      Personally, I find that rather poetic,

      props to you for creating the opportunity
      Signature

      Selling Ain't for Sissies!
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7664258].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

        as Leroy Jethro Gibbs says ..... "Never apologize"

        TBO. I think your thread transended a bit. the first page is great for begginers.

        the rest of the pages kinda depends on your skill. The more skill you have
        the more you will understand.

        Personally, I find that rather poetic,

        props to you for creating the opportunity

        I think thats cool, but not for the purpose of people reading along as they transcend because most newbies will read the beginning stuff...get excited, and wont immediately hit the phone, they will keep reading till they are less excited and confused by the time they hit the phone and lack clarity.

        Clarity is more important than depth for beginners. The heel of a womans shoe breaks ground faster than the sole of an elephants foot.

        As Claude pointed out, technique comes before principle... unless you dont want to be effective for ten years. lol
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7664279].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
          [DELETED]
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7664286].message }}
          • 1228 views of this thread.

            I was considering the people seeing this thread who wanted specific ways to get to the point, the sale, the business relationship, and not waste time on the wrong prospects.

            what is a tie down????

            for me, it's getting them to verbalize pains, and that some of what I offer might help.

            I can initiate it, or they can come out and tie down themselves
            ( like a "lay down sale" )

            the opposite of a tie down = chasing someone around that will never buy from you.

            my opinion, I could be wrong.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7664695].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author John Durham
              Originally Posted by kirbymarketingconcierge View Post

              1228 views of this thread.

              I was considering the people seeing this thread who wanted specific ways to get to the point, the sale, the business relationship, and not waste time on the wrong prospects.

              what is a tie down????

              for me, it's getting them to verbalize pains, and that some of what I offer might help.

              I can initiate it, or they can come out and tie down themselves
              ( like a "lay down sale" )

              the opposite of a tie down = chasing someone around that will never buy from you.

              my opinion, I could be wrong.
              The opposite of a tie down might be "Hey Bob, Im sure you folk aint interested in no web page are ya?":rolleyes:

              I dunno , never thoughta that one...

              In truth Kirb, it is about getting them to verbalize, you are correct.

              It's about getting them to verbalize things, that will cause them to have to take back their own word if they squelch on you at the close.

              I just told you

              "Yes, I want red"
              "Yes, I will need you to design my logo"
              "Yes, we will be wanting the _______ option"
              "Yes I want a form on my site"
              "This is the email address you need to have my form submit to..."
              "This is the phone number I want listed on my site"
              "This is what I want on the staff page"
              "I want the home page to have our slogan on it..."

              So when it comes time to close, am I going to take all that back?

              Not very likely.

              As Misterme mentioned in another post, its also just about getting them into "Yes" mode, so its easier to say at the close.

              Basically what you do with tie downs is to get them involved in the creation of the site, before the sale is even closed. These are things that some sales people naturally do anyway sometimes; just like before I got trained in songwriting I alliterated sometimes... but when someone taught me to do it "intentionally", and "deliberately" I started doing it at will and it helped me tremendously. So will tie downs if you will learn to use them throughout your pitch intentionally, and deliberately at will.

              You have probably been given pitches before that already contained them, and maybe didnt realize what they were...Most proven sales pitches have a few tie downs in them. They are weaved into the content of the pitch so well that uou wouldnt know they were un natural to do, unless someone told you they were tie downs. They really dont stick out like a sore thumb at all.

              When used right, tie downs come off as totally natural, but they lock the customer in throughout your pitch in a very powerful way, more powerful than most people will realize reading it on a thread. Thats why there is a "technique" named after them.

              They make closing the sale seem like more of a natural conclusion.

              -John
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7664942].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author misterme
    Originally Posted by David Miller View Post

    We seem to be getting deep in the weeds of the Psychology of Selling in a thread that is supposed to be about "Tie Downs."

    When I started to write this post, my first thought was to do something like:

    We seem to be off track, don't we?

    However, now I'm wondering if it's really possible to sort the sales process into tidy compartments. Opening lines, tie downs, closing, rebuttals, etc.
    That's just it. Some newer guys have come along, the intended reader, and write how this is great stuff, they're gonna use tie downs now... and I'm thinking, no wait. That's relying on a technique. The greater advantage is in knowing when to apply the technique. So, maybe the thing is, focusing on these topics might also be unintentionally placing them on some sort of pedestal in some people's eyes... and I, having contributed to this thread, was writing to make it more than clear that sales is not about the tie down. That's all.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7665041].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by misterme View Post

      That's just it. Some newer guys have come along, the intended reader, and write how this is great stuff, they're gonna use tie downs now... and I'm thinking, no wait. That's relying on a technique. The greater advantage is in knowing when to apply the technique. So, maybe the thing is, focusing on these topics might also be unintentionally placing them on some sort of pedestal in some people's eyes... and I, having contributed to this thread, was writing to make it more than clear that sales is not about the tie down. That's all.
      I see your point, please do carry on. The intended reader is really the one who expanded the direction... you are correct.

      ...and I ("Shoot First/Ask Questions Later Durham") really shouldnt try to answer posts before coffee. :rolleyes:

      The standard (solid) advice, which I constantly ignore is "dont apologize" , but I have to break that rule alot, because I often jump the gun skimming these threads, so there is never a shortage of stuff to apologize for.

      Just like telemarketing, you have to view it as a mere number, and move on and keep offering value...Out of over 5000 posts , it wont be the first one I look back on and cringe... Its just the life of a frequent poster; mistakes are bound to happen every 100 numbers or so, and someone is going to wind up eating crow...lol

      In any event lets not let it destroy the value of this highly valuable thread, nor your highly valuable advice within it, Misterme. Yours is some of the best stuff in the thread. My apologies to Claude also, although it wasnt referring to either of you specifically, more the tone of the thread in general, maybe even myself..

      -John
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7667738].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        John: I accept your apology....for......something.....maybe ...you'll ...do ...in ..the ...future....

        By the way, we all post things that a later make us wince a little. I tend to be a tad too unforgiving of newbies. And it comes out in my posts.

        Just know that, to me, this is always a teaching-learning exercise. Never anything different. You're a good man.

        By the way, have you noticed that no women post on these threads? Is it our breath?
        Signature
        One Call Closing book https://www.amazon.com/One-Call-Clos...=1527788418&sr

        Terence Fletcher: "There are no two words in the English language more harmful than Good Job." Whiplash.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7669553].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author John Durham
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          John: I accept your apology....for......something.....maybe ...you'll ...do ...in ..the ...future....

          By the way, have you noticed that no women post on these threads? Is it our breath?
          Claude....funny...that...you...mention... that.......I havent.... noticed..til...now....
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7669600].message }}
          • You know how at the start of a sales presentation, the presenter will
            tell the audience "here is what we will cover".

            or a webinar when they say "your going to get some valuable content and secret sauces, and a great offer at the end"

            are these tie downs?

            if know wants to respond I understand.

            P.S.

            I do have the feeling sometimes this thread is just a "boy's club" around the "water cooler", entertaining everybody & buliding up ego's with how great their pitch was and and how to do it(in Theory).

            maybe thats why no women here????

            just my thoughts, I could be wrong. usually am.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7669655].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author John Durham
              Originally Posted by kirbymarketingconcierge View Post

              You know how at the start of a sales presentation, the presenter will
              tell the audience "here is what we will cover".

              or a webinar when they say "your going to get some valuable content and secret sauces, and a great offer at the end"

              are these tie downs?

              if know wants to respond I understand.

              P.S.

              I do have the feeling sometimes this thread is just a "boy's club" around the "water cooler", entertaining everybody & buliding up ego's with how great their pitch was and and how to do it(in Theory).

              maybe thats why no women here????

              just my thoughts, I could be wrong. usually am.
              I think they are just scared... they all turned to article writing

              I dont know if its a tie down, that would be more building anticipation. There is sort of an old school sales rule that goes along with it too, which you may know Kirby, because you ARENT usually wrong... that goes "Tell em what you are going to tell them, then tell them what you told them you were going to tell them, then tell them what you just told them"

              Its been decades and I still dont get the principle behind that saying, but the technique itself seems to have a positive affect. I think it has to do with building anticipation so they stick the whole pitch out, then reconfirming to them that you kept your word. I think most of us kinda do that naturally.
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7669682].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by kirbymarketingconcierge View Post

              You know how at the start of a sales presentation, the presenter will
              tell the audience "here is what we will cover". .
              Kirby; Not a tie-down, but I usually start speaking from the stage (if I'm teaching) with something along those lines. If I'm pitching, I ask a few questions that get the audience participating.

              o
              Originally Posted by kirbymarketingconcierge View Post

              r a webinar when they say "your going to get some valuable content and secret sauces, and a great offer at the end" .
              Again, not a tie-down, because it doesn't further the sale or gain minor committment.

              Originally Posted by kirbymarketingconcierge View Post

              I do have the feeling sometimes this thread is just a "boy's club" around the "water cooler", entertaining everybody & buliding up ego's with how great their pitch was and and how to do it(in Theory).

              maybe thats why no women here????

              just my thoughts, I could be wrong. usually am.
              You may have hit the bullseye with that remark about why women aren't here. But about building up egos? I think you missed the mark. I get excited learning ideas from intelligent people...and sharing ideas that I think will help. Most of what I talk about isn't theory. But I can see where the "ego" comment comes from.
              I can only speak for myself. My feeling of self worth is through the roof.
              Because of that, my ego doesn't need boosting.

              Ever been to the beach and see guys flexing their muscles to impress girls? It's never the champion bodybuilders. It's the guy with 16 inch arms that is slightly better than normal....he needs the ego boost. Not the champion.

              The guys that run four minute miles? How do you say "I ran a four minute mile" without sounding like you're bragging?

              I always think of this as sharing ideas. And to share ideas, you have to sometimes tell what you have done, or how you would do it. Never bragging. If it sounds like bragging, that's a mistake.

              I never hear bragging or one upmanship in the posts. But it may just be the way I think.


              I did engage in one upmanship once on another forum. The other guy made a claim that I knew was fake. So I got him to engage in a little "Can you top this?". Every claim I made was progressively more outrageous and untrue. I knew he would reciprocate because he wasn't actually knowledgable about the subject. For some reason nobody called us on it.

              Eventually I got him to claim that he was a secret Ninja that fought crime in California in he 1980's. I'm not kidding. I even traded storied about how we would jump from rooftop to rooftop fighting the underlords of crime. I did it with a straight face.

              I was different then, and would never engage in that form of bullying again. A person like that should be helped, not teased. Eventually, I got bored and just left. I suspect there is someone in this country that thinks "That Claude Whitacre actually thinks he invented a suit that lets him fly like a bird? What an idiot". And I deserve it.

              But here? Nah.
              Signature
              One Call Closing book https://www.amazon.com/One-Call-Clos...=1527788418&sr

              Terence Fletcher: "There are no two words in the English language more harmful than Good Job." Whiplash.
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7670006].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author dlink
              Originally Posted by kirbymarketingconcierge View Post

              I do have the feeling sometimes this thread is just a "boy's club" around the "water cooler", entertaining everybody & buliding up ego's with how great their pitch was and and how to do it(in Theory).

              maybe thats why no women here????

              just my thoughts, I could be wrong. usually am.
              Well, that's a way to bring us out ... Hahaha, we're here.. well at least I am..:p

              I just know I'm quiet around here because I don't have anywhere near the experience as all of you guys.

              Heck, I'm still struggling making cold calls, not because I stumble or don't know what to say, quite the opposite..my problem is the No's..Knowing I'll get a billion 'no's' or 'send me an email' psych's me out most days.. I've yet to get money by phone, one day.

              I can't speak for the rest of the ladies around here, but I just do more reading that typing.. I'm sure I'd have more to say once I have the experience.
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7671419].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
    Well i prefer a boys club .. water cooler thing happening vrs the crap that
    was going on last year. All the bickering about which is better ... and anyone
    admitting to being in sales was painted with the "evil" brush.

    Even our disagreements are civil nowadays ... pretty cool if you ask me.

    If i ever came of as bragging .. that was never my intent. My ego is already
    super sized, i don't need to make it any bigger.
    Signature

    Selling Ain't for Sissies!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7670783].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Rearden
    Where the heck is Adrian Browning at?
    Signature
    David Duford -- Providing On-Going, Personalized Mentorship And Training From A Real Final Expense Producer To Agents New To The Final Expense Life Insurance Business.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7671624].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author mak25
      Originally Posted by Rearden View Post

      Where the heck is Adrian Browning at?
      I think he's living in a van down by the river...
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7673325].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author David Miller
        Who the hell is Adrian Browning? That's the 2nd time THIS MORNING I've seen his name mentioned!
        Signature
        The big lesson in life, baby, is never be scared of anyone or anything.
        -- FRANK SINATRA, quoted in The Way You Wear Your Hat
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7673852].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author John Durham
          Originally Posted by David Miller View Post

          Who the hell is Adrian Browning?
          Nobody really knows but we have our suspicions. He isnt anyone you want to attract into the offline section thats for sure.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7673875].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
            Originally Posted by Rearden View Post

            Where the heck is Adrian Browning at?
            Rearden .. that's just evil buddy :rolleyes:

            Originally Posted by David Miller View Post

            Who the hell is Adrian Browning? That's the 2nd time THIS MORNING I've seen his name mentioned!
            Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

            Nobody really knows but we have our suspicions. He isnt anyone you want to attract into the offline section thats for sure.
            Well if you been paying attention, in the last few days a few of the "other" usernames
            have started posting again. the same ones that usually appear when he does.
            So i am guessing he will be here soon enough..
            Signature

            Selling Ain't for Sissies!
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7673967].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author David Miller
              Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

              Rearden .. that's just evil buddy :rolleyes:

              Well if you been paying attention, in the last few days a few of the "other" usernames
              have started posting again. the same ones that usually appear when he does.
              So i am guessing he will be here soon enough..
              Will I need to put on a tie, or is casual dress OK?
              Signature
              The big lesson in life, baby, is never be scared of anyone or anything.
              -- FRANK SINATRA, quoted in The Way You Wear Your Hat
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7674060].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author John Durham
                Originally Posted by David Miller View Post

                Will I need to put on a tie...?

                No but you will need to bring your holy water.
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7674082].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by Rearden View Post

      Where the heck is Adrian Browning at?

      NO!!!!!! I have it on good authority that if you say his name three times...he appears with a hook for a hand.

      And we have already said his name twice!
      Signature
      One Call Closing book https://www.amazon.com/One-Call-Clos...=1527788418&sr

      Terence Fletcher: "There are no two words in the English language more harmful than Good Job." Whiplash.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7674461].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Rearden
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        NO!!!!!! I have it on good authority that if you say his name three times...he appears with a hook for a hand.

        And we have already said his name twice!
        LOL.

        Considering the spontaneous creation of a half-dozen GOLD NUGGET posts we've seen here over the past few weeks, he's overdue to ruin the party...
        Signature
        David Duford -- Providing On-Going, Personalized Mentorship And Training From A Real Final Expense Producer To Agents New To The Final Expense Life Insurance Business.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7674896].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author David Miller
          What was this thread about? Oh yeah...tie downs! That was it, wasn't it?
          Signature
          The big lesson in life, baby, is never be scared of anyone or anything.
          -- FRANK SINATRA, quoted in The Way You Wear Your Hat
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7675760].message }}
          • when you have a "lay down" sale.

            or

            the opening cold call is a great conversation,

            like "funny you should call, because I was just thinking about that"

            where are the Tie Downs?
            Is this what we label, "they closed themselves"?

            submitting for discussion and to help fellow warriors.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7676140].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author John Durham
              Originally Posted by kirbymarketingconcierge View Post

              when you have a "lay down" sale.

              or

              the opening cold call is a great conversation,

              like "funny you should call, because I was just thinking about that"

              where are the Tie Downs?
              Is this what we label, "they closed themselves"?

              submitting for discussion and to help fellow warriors.
              Think of it this way; when someone says' "I cant come over because I'm all tied up at the moment"... It means they have prior commitments.

              A poster named liz called them "Trial Closes" or "Milestone commitments" rightly.

              It is certain points in your pitch where they kind of tie themselves up a little and make verbal commitments.

              By the end of your close they have made enough of them to where they have to say yes almost "because they are all tied up" they made alot of verbal, however not necessarily "conscious" commitments.

              When reading this thread, one might be inclined to think it is some mechanical technique, but its not, they come off pretty naturally in your pitch and they dont really stick out, because they are said in more of a natural conversational manner.

              It doesnt mean thats the BULK of what you do, there are a few different aspects of effective pitching. Some might say that techniques "period" arent needed, "just wing it".... That person is not operating optimally, even though they may just get by.

              Having disciplins in anything is the key to mastery. If they are already effective, then learning techniques will make them DOUBLE effective.

              Eventually, with practice, the techniques become natural.

              -John
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7677086].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author misterme
              Originally Posted by kirbymarketingconcierge View Post

              when you have a "lay down" sale...
              where are the Tie Downs?
              They may not play a part as much in getting commitment since the commitment's already there, but as they're part and parcel of how the salesperson converses, they're in there regardless. The salesperson doesn't know they're a lay down anyway until some point where it's obvious.

              Besides which, if the sales person did think, "this is a lay down" - he may start to slack, and not do everything he should do in the presentation, believing it's not needed. But that's the slippery slope that loses sales.
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7677396].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                Originally Posted by misterme View Post

                Besides which, if the sales person did think, "this is a lay down" - he may start to slack, and not do everything he should do in the presentation, believing it's not needed. But that's the slippery slope that loses sales.
                Yup. I can't begin to tell you about all the "Lay downs" I've had that I lost, because I shorted my qualification and presentation.

                Plus, I'm always wary of eager prospects. Sometimes they are real, sometimes not. I never really know for sure until the end.

                On a related note, for several months, years ago, I notice that my closing rate was about half normal. One day while training a new group, my sales manager came up to me and said quietly "What happened to the middle"?

                I simply stopped doing a part of my presentation. Weird. I have no idea how it happened. Of course, I corrected it and the results shot back up.
                Signature
                One Call Closing book https://www.amazon.com/One-Call-Clos...=1527788418&sr

                Terence Fletcher: "There are no two words in the English language more harmful than Good Job." Whiplash.
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7679601].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author John Durham
                  Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                  Yup. I can't begin to tell you about all the "Lay downs" I've had that I lost, because I shorted my qualification and presentation.
                  Funny how "cutting corners" creeps up on you.
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7679663].message }}
                  • Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

                    Funny how "cutting corners" creeps up on you.
                    exactly!

                    so can we say tie downs are essential?

                    I would say yes. they tie ourselves and the prospect down.

                    which is normal human communication and future interaction.
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7680020].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author resz
    this is a sold fantastic thread, that evryone who sells needs to read!

    I recommend that we bear in mind that 'value trumps price'. The more we create value up front & in our presentation the less we need to focus on tie down/closing techniques. In addition to always educating ourselves on tiedown/closing techniques ... always be looking to create value.
    Signature

    Top LINK PYRAMID backlink on fiverr, 6 type of link, 20+ platform, 1100 quality backlink

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7672789].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Yeah, Reardon is conjuring evil.

    You know what the beautiful thing is?

    Stewart Alexander still succeeding with telemarketing on his directory site and building his residual empire two years later with a big happy report......and A young lady named Deidre Renee who pm'd me yesterday. I havent heard from her for a year, but she learned telemarketing at the tmf, and devoted herself to making one sale every single day, and "DID"...she just pm'd me yesterday and said "Thanks to you Im still busy as a bee, have you written anything new I can read up on?"

    And she wanted to know how I was doing...

    Thats the beautiful thing about this message that nobody can destroy with "spins". Thats the REALITY of the power of what we do when we share this stuff.

    You cant spin that away.

    -John
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7674001].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author misterme
    Originally Posted by kirbymarketingconcierge View Post

    You know how at the start of a sales presentation, the presenter will
    tell the audience "here is what we will cover".

    or a webinar when they say "your going to get some valuable content and secret sauces, and a great offer at the end"

    are these tie downs?
    No, they're not.

    "Here's what we'll cover" is setting the agenda, right? You don't want your prospects fidgeting wondering if you're going to talk about [whatever].

    When they say,"your going to get some valuable content and secret sauces, and..." that's a hook, isn't it? To get you to stay and listen to the whole presentation. Like when they do a news commercial to get you to watch later: "Coming up at 11, what's in your salad that can kill you." Which by the way, they broadcast at dinner time just as I'm about to take a bite.

    I'm reading a lot of interpretations for what a tie down is in this thread. But simply stated, a tie down is a question which gets agreement. So it's not a statement because a statement doesn't require the prospect to respond but a direct question prompts an answer. It's not asking the prospect to choose from two or more options because answering "do you want A or prefer B?" doesn't "tie" them down to it - there's no agreement there, it's just a preference stated; It's not asking a question which may be answered "no" because that's not getting an agreement.

    So a tie down is a question you ask, the form of which is to obtain an agreement, a commitment, a confirmation, for which you already know the prospect will answer in the affirmative.

    This is a tie down:

    "You said you prefer it in black. So we'll be doing this in black then, is that right?"

    These (and their variations) are not:

    "Do you want it in black or red?"
    "So far, so good?"
    "Here's what we're going to do..."
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7674190].message }}

Trending Topics