Pricing Results Based Consulting

40 replies
I want to offer results based (commission) marketing consulting as an option (as well as hourly) for a couple reasons.

1. I don't have much of a track record or credentials.
2. I believe I can make a lot more money as long as I choose clients wisely.

Structuring commissions/pricing is tricky and there are a lot of considerations & options such as:

1. The company's margins and current growth (positive or negative)
2. Commission should be paid monthly
3. Commission should be based on the performance of specific strategies/tactics vs overall profitability because:
  • Some strategies such as positioning and branding can't be directly measured.
  • Much greater control over individual measurable strategies and tactics and less overall risk.
5. Since all companies have seasonal fluctuations, growth should be based on current month vs same month previous year but in most cases metrics were not in place for previous year, so this wouldn't work the 1st year (new tactics wouldn't be a problem) and we would need to use reasonable benchmarks.
6. Charge hourly rate for general/non-measurable consulting
7. Flat fee for formal plan
8. 1 year contract for results/commission based marketing so they can't dump me after I implement the plan. I'm not really sure about this one.

If anyone has any thoughts or anything to add to this, I would greatly appreciate your insights.

Thanks.
#based #consulting #pricing #results
  • Profile picture of the author Eddie Spangler
    Dont do it, this is not a method you want to take on as a rookie....unless you are financially independent already and just want a challenge.
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  • Profile picture of the author PaulintheSticks
    You mind giving your reasoning, Eddie? Because "don't do it" without any reasoning is not helpful.
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    • Profile picture of the author Eddie Spangler
      Originally Posted by PaulintheSticks View Post

      You mind giving your reasoning, Eddie? Because "don't do it" without any reasoning is not helpful.
      Just giving my thoughts based on experience, if thats not helpful,my bad.

      A man says that he wants to wear a suit made of chum into a shark tank in hopes that the sharks will
      accept him and let him play in their waters, the best thing I can tell the guy is dont do it.

      It would literally take me an hour to type up all the reasons why this is a bad idea for you to try right now.

      Hopefully you can get some more detailed responses from others.
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  • Profile picture of the author Slave1
    Hi Paul

    I would advise that you put a few controls in place to prove how well you marketing is performing. For example:

    Website Tracking: Start tracking the number of visitors a month before you start your marketing, this way you can demonstrate your efforts directly increased website traffic.

    Contact Me CC: On the website "contact me" form, make sure you are copied on any submissions, or at least have access to the email account in order for you to measure how many summisions were made before/after your efforts.

    Phone Number Tracking: There are several very inexpensive phone number tracking options available that will allow you to track the increase (hopefully) in calls once your begin your marketing.

    All of this is designed to measure and prove that your marketing expertise was the reason for the increase exposure and leads. Not that clients want to take all the credit, but it shows a track record that you have a direct positive effect on their business.
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  • Profile picture of the author MIB Mastermind
    I provide done for you marketing in a specific niche, this a monthly fee plus % of profits generated and it works great.
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  • Profile picture of the author Aaron Doud
    There are a couple of reasons I am against results based consulting.

    1. If they don't execute correctly you don't get paid.
    2. Since they haven't paid they don't have skin in the game. They also tend to respect your advice less. We value what we pay for.
    3. If the solution works really well they will come to resent you and feel they are paying you too much.

    If they do bad it turns into a nightmare. If they do good it turns into a nightmare.
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  • Profile picture of the author Eddie Spangler
    Also keep in mind that the people you are reading who are doing this well, like Jay Abraham already have a lot of clout in the maketplace, they work with big deal potentials and have a staff of people to make things happen and are lawyered up to insure they get their loot.
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  • Profile picture of the author hayfj2
    You Don't know what you don't know.

    You cannot control what the client DOES NOT DO.

    You maybe astoundingly excellent at what you do, but....

    Clients CANNOT be relied upon to deliver the necessary resources on time - ever.

    They will then use any excuse not to pay you when they F***K up.

    for example...

    Will they give you ad copy on time?
    Will they give you pics & images on time?
    What happens if they have a dunt in their cashflow and cant pay you?
    What happens if they get a legal suit and simply wont pay you?

    ...and you end up missing a deadline as a result or not achieve the results you want?

    They will use their "cockups" as an excuse NOT to pay you.

    All actions and inactions have consequences...
    ...HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH CONSEQUENCES?

    They will hold you accountable and will not want or like to be held accountable themselves.



    Hope that makes sense.

    Regards


    Fraser
    P.s. And remember they will change a "profit" by introducing all sorts of costs u never thought of, (but they will) to ensure they pay you less.
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    • Profile picture of the author PaulintheSticks
      I'm guessing you're not a big fan of the idea.

      Are business owners really that bad? You guys must be dealing with different ones than me. I've met a number that I would trust completely. As a matter of fact some of my best friends are business owners that I met in business and they have a very high level of integrity.

      But they're all valid points that I have considered and thats why I would only offer it to prospects that I have the utmost confidence in their character and ability to do what's agreed upon.

      Originally Posted by hayfj2 View Post

      You Don't know what you don't know.

      You cannot control what the client DOES NOT DO.

      You maybe astoundingly excellent at what you do, but....

      Clients CANNOT be relied upon to deliver the necessary resources on time - ever.

      They will then use any excuse not to pay you when they F***K up.

      for example...

      Will they give you ad copy on time?
      Will they give you pics & images on time?
      What happens if they have a dunt in their cashflow and cant pay you?
      What happens if they get a legal suit and simply wont pay you?

      ...and you end up missing a deadline as a result or not achieve the results you want?

      They will use their "cockups" as an excuse NOT to pay you.

      All actions and inactions have consequences...
      ...HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH CONSEQUENCES?

      They will hold you accountable and will not want or like to be held accountable themselves.



      Hope that makes sense.

      Regards


      Fraser
      P.s. And remember they will change a "profit" by introducing all sorts of costs u never thought of, (but they will) to ensure they pay you less.
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      • Profile picture of the author mak25
        Seriously kid, why don't you just get off of this forum and get out there and start knocking on doors, or call people on the phone and just start doing it.

        You've been posting all over this forum asking this and asking that.
        Like a kid nervous worrying about his high school prom date.

        I don't care what you think, but asking people on this forum what they think will never give you the answers you need until you start doing it. Real time experience.

        So stop asking and start doing. Grow a pair and get out there. You'll find your answers real quick.

        Some people spend all their time reading, researching and wondering.
        Other people just go out and do it. And make it work by learning as they go.

        You, according to what I see, want everything perfect before they try.
        Ain't never gonna happen dude. Never.

        You got something worth selling? The sell it dammit.

        Stop already with your million questions. It really is annoying.
        Just learn by doing it, like everybody else has.

        Sink or swim. Succeed or fail.

        What do you got big guy? Will you make it or not?

        We'll see...
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        • Profile picture of the author dave147
          Originally Posted by mak25 View Post

          Seriously kid, why don't you just get off of this forum and get out there and start knocking on doors, or call people on the phone and just start doing it.

          You've been posting all over this forum asking this and asking that.
          Like a kid nervous worrying about his high school prom date.

          I don't care what you think, but asking people on this forum what they think will never give you the answers you need until you start doing it. Real time experience.

          So stop asking and start doing. Grow a pair and get out there. You'll find your answers real quick.

          Some people spend all their time reading, researching and wondering.
          Other people just go out and do it. And make it work by learning as they go.

          You, according to what I see, want everything perfect before they try.
          Ain't never gonna happen dude. Never.

          You got something worth selling? The sell it dammit.

          Stop already with your million questions. It really is annoying.
          Just learn by doing it, like everybody else has.
          LOL...Very funny reply
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        • Profile picture of the author PaulintheSticks
          Mak,

          I wish you nothing but the best in everything.

          Originally Posted by mak25 View Post

          Seriously kid, why don't you just get off of this forum and get out there and start knocking on doors, or call people on the phone and just start doing it.

          You've been posting all over this forum asking this and asking that.
          Like a kid nervous worrying about his high school prom date.

          I don't care what you think, but asking people on this forum what they think will never give you the answers you need until you start doing it. Real time experience.

          So stop asking and start doing. Grow a pair and get out there. You'll find your answers real quick.

          Some people spend all their time reading, researching and wondering.
          Other people just go out and do it. And make it work by learning as they go.

          You, according to what I see, want everything perfect before they try.
          Ain't never gonna happen dude. Never.

          You got something worth selling? The sell it dammit.

          Stop already with your million questions. It really is annoying.
          Just learn by doing it, like everybody else has.

          Sink or swim. Succeed or fail.

          What do you got big guy? Will you make it or not?

          We'll see...
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        • Profile picture of the author PaulintheSticks
          Originally Posted by mak25 View Post

          Seriously kid, why don't you just get off of this forum and get out there and start knocking on doors, or call people on the phone and just start doing it.

          You've been posting all over this forum asking this and asking that.
          Like a kid nervous worrying about his high school prom date.

          I don't care what you think, but asking people on this forum what they think will never give you the answers you need until you start doing it. Real time experience.

          So stop asking and start doing. Grow a pair and get out there. You'll find your answers real quick.

          Some people spend all their time reading, researching and wondering.
          Other people just go out and do it. And make it work by learning as they go.

          You, according to what I see, want everything perfect before they try.
          Ain't never gonna happen dude. Never.

          You got something worth selling? The sell it dammit.

          Stop already with your million questions. It really is annoying.
          Just learn by doing it, like everybody else has.

          Sink or swim. Succeed or fail.

          What do you got big guy? Will you make it or not?

          We'll see...
          So let me make sure I understand this. I started my business 6 weeks ago, have little experience and you believe that the majority of my time shouldn't be spent setting up the proper business structures, systems, pricing, sales tools, developing products/services, etc.and trying to learn how to do that by asking questions to people who are many times more experienced than me is a waste. But instead I should spend my time selling services Is that right?

          First of all, you have no idea how much time I spend on which aspects of my business. Just because I spend an hour or two doing research most days on WF does not mean I'm not prospecting and/or selling. By the way, I spend upwards of 80 hours a week working on and in my business.

          Secondly, that's by far the worst business advice I've ever heard. Seriously. That's exactly the approach I took when building my house. Want to know what happened? It cost me several thousand dollars and hundreds of hours of my time and turned into a time and money pit nightmare. And those of you who have business experience that thanked Mak for his post, I'm shocked.
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          • Profile picture of the author mjbmedia
            Originally Posted by PaulintheSticks View Post

            So let me make sure I understand this. I started my business 6 weeks ago, have little experience and you believe that the majority of my time shouldn't be spent setting up the proper business structures, systems, pricing, sales tools, developing products/services, etc.and trying to learn how to do that by asking questions to people who are many times more experienced than me is a waste. But instead I should spend my time selling services Is that right?
            Tada, penny drops!!!

            Why bother having all the back office stuff if you dont have any clients to service, winning the clients brings in the money, having the right systems in place is meaningless (relatively speaking ) until you have some clients to run through the system, you can spend time setting up the systems, then win some clients and discover the system doesnt work right, or you can win some clients, get the cash in, then build the real world systems round the real world needs to those real world clients with some real world money in your real world bank account.

            Look preparing for success is admirable and I guess that's your angle here and in a way it's right, but not to the dteriment of winning sales from real clients, nothing in business should ever come before winning real sales with real clients spending real money into your real account (and that includes illness, death, parenting, marriage, holidays, sex ....whoa hold up a minute! )
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        • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
          Originally Posted by mak25 View Post

          Seriously kid, why don't you just get off of this forum and get out there and start knocking on doors, or call people on the phone and just start doing it.
          That's what we used to do before there was a forum to
          ask questions like this and on the whole we did pretty well.

          Generally speaking if you don't want a client to waste your
          time and you want them to respect your expertise charge
          a substantial upfront fee before you do any work.

          Charge enough so that if you never get paid another cent
          you're still happy doing the work they've paid you for.

          If you want to charge for performance put it ON TOP of
          that initial fee.

          That ensures you get paid a reasonable amount of money
          for your work.

          Clients who have never paid you a substantial fee upfront
          are nearly always problematic.

          On top of that it can be incredibly difficult to get paid in
          pay per performance deals...especially by someone who
          has never paid you before.

          If they value your expertise and your ideas and you've
          established the potential dollar value effectively then
          they'll pay you upfront to get started.

          If you don't charge upfront you're not forcing them to
          establish in their mind that your strategies and expertise
          have real value.

          And that's a really rough road to travel when you fail to
          do that.

          Kindest regards,
          Andrew Cavanagh
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  • Profile picture of the author Rearden
    Thanks mak. Best response ever.

    Ready, FIRE, Aim, FIRE....
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    • Profile picture of the author DABK
      Your point of view
      My SEO and facebook skills have gotten this business 200 more leads this month than they had the same month last year.

      Business owner's point of view:
      This guy says he's got me 200 more leads. How do we know they're not here because of the exposure marketing I've been doing for the past 3 years. I mean, I've spent $x on radio ads. Everybody and his mother-in-law's heard about me...

      Maybe this guy's responsible for 20 of the leads only. But he wants me to pay him for all of them.

      The above is one of the many ways things can go wrong. And wrong not only in as much as you don't get paid but wrong in the sense that now you have someone who resents you, who thinks you're possibly a cheat, and who'll tell every 3rd person he meets to stay away from you and every other person that you're a jackass.
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    On the one hand:

    Jay Abraham could do it because he is Jay Abraham and has the resources.
    On the other side of the coin, his clients - like Oracle - have the resources
    to pay no matter what.

    Your clients may have no problem with the work you did, but maybe a
    "huge to them" unexpected personal or business expense occurs and
    they can't pay you because they are a small, local business.

    And, what happens if you think you did your job very well and it's their fault they
    did not close the new leads, or carry out satisfactory customer service... and
    they think your stuff did not work?

    On the other hand (since you're probably going to give it a whirl anyway):

    The measurement has to be based upon a baseline "before Paul" and then
    compared to "after Paul". And, it has to be for a specific idea or project
    to eliminate variables. Very hard to do.

    Examples: I used to sell private label SEO that came with a guarantee.
    A caveat being that the client could not do anything else SEO related.
    Can't control most client's implementation of what they think is a good
    idea and is possibly SEO related.

    My hotel is up about $10,000 per month from last year, but about the
    same as two years ago. Is it because of my year of positive Trip Advisor
    and other online reviews and initiatives, etc? Or, is it because the skiing
    is better than last year, or that gas is a little lower?

    Then you have to figure if, from your initiative(s), you are getting a
    percent of gross revenue increases, or revenues minus expenses and/or
    taxes, or net profits...

    Anyway, if you do it, the first time(s) have the time and resources to
    do it on a friendly, experimental basis with your friends. And, make
    sure it's clear it's experimental. (Of course you still get paid, just saying
    you both try to keep it friendly and not life or death.) It is very easy for
    hard feelings and disputes to arise where money is involved and it's not
    about the "money", it's about the principle and ethics and feelings
    surrounding the dispute.

    Dan

    P.S. - As the saying goes "Don't let barking dogs slow the caravan".

    P.P.S. - I saw a fortyish couple try to build their own home while living in an RV
    on the lot. They really did not prepare, know what they were doing, and I have
    no idea how they obtained any financing at all. They had bedrooms that were
    not legal bedrooms, etc., etc., etc., ... They went under and had to do a
    bankcruptcy and start their lives and careers completely over.

    An experienced person with a budget came in and bought what was left
    of that effort for the price of a building lot. They proceeded to quickly
    build a very nice home three times the size of the previous effort.

    Good luck.
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    • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
      Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

      Jay Abraham could do it because he is Jay Abraham and has the resources.
      On the other side of the coin, his clients - like Oracle - have the resources
      to pay no matter what.
      Jay is charging $5,000+ an hour for consulting and he's not
      working with clients who haven't already come through
      quite a process of pre-education and paid him substantial
      sums of money.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
    Your friends are in business... they're above reproach... you trust them completely...

    Ever heard the old movie line... "Nothing personal, just business."

    If your friends are successful in their businesses they understand
    that line 100%. They have their own definition of what constitutes
    good results. They also have their ways of doing things that may
    hinder what you want to do... timelines, deadlines etc...

    When they put their business hats on they may very well stiff you
    just like anyone else and they'll BELIEVE they have legitimate reasons.

    I think this is going to be a very hard lesson for you to learn.

    As I told you in the other thread where this was discussed... unless
    you have TOTAL control of every phase of the project and specific
    milestones for measuring increased revenue and profits as well as complete
    control of how all that money appears on the books... GET IT UP FRONT OR
    PLAN ON NOT GETTING IT AT ALL.
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    If you knew what I know you'd be doing what I do...
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  • The building-a-house analogy is not a good one with regards to starting a business. With a business, it's more like you are setting up a tent in various locations to make sure the hunting is good before building a hunting cabin.

    Once you are convinced the area woods are full of game, expand the cabin into a nice hunting lodge.
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  • Profile picture of the author umc
    I LOVE Mak's post. So many people spend time researching things, buying a new laptop and desk, talking strategy, all to make themselves believe that they're actually doing something because they don't have the confidence to go do it. It makes them feel good, but produces nothing. Been there myself at times. Then they (or I in the past) get all indignant at other's recommendations because they're really speaking the truth and sometimes the truth hurts because it points out that gaping hole in your own confidence.

    Paul, you can spend forever trying to get everything accounted for and perfect, or go do something. Perfect will never happen. If nothing else, think about this. I've seen a few of your posts where you have told long time successful marketers that their advice is horrible. What have you done in the marketing arena? Wake up and listen. Face the demons that are holding you back. For me that has been both a lack of confidence and fear of success because this means so much to me. What's holding you back for real? Think about it and face it. I finally am, as I have a campaign starting as soon as my printed materials come in.
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  • Profile picture of the author Eddie Spangler
    Here is the other folly of asking all these questions and trying to get things perfect.

    You already had a preconceived notion of how things are SUPPOSED to be done,
    your questions seem to be seeking answers that conform to your pre conceived notions rather than seeking real unbiased advice. You state yourself how you just started your business 6 weeks ago, you may be a great musician and a resourceful home builder BUT you are not a successful businessman yet, let go of your ego.

    (As someone else has already noted, you want to "argue" with experienced people giving you good advice and you are criticizing their delivery method rather than listening to the message)

    Just like the small biz owner who you are trying to convince to do a certain method, you can sell it till your mouth falls off just like we can type advice to you till our fingers fall off BUT the only real test is if its viable is to just FREAKIN DO IT!!

    If you are already convinced that something will work and people in the know say it wont, then screw them , just do it and find out for yourself.
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    • Profile picture of the author PaulintheSticks
      Originally Posted by mjbmedia View Post

      Tada, penny drops!!!Why bother having all the back office stuff if you dont have any clients to service,
      before winning real sales with real clients spending real money into your real account
      Well I just picked up a real check for $1000 last week from one of the 4 real clients that you assume I don't have.

      Originally Posted by umc View Post

      or go do something.
      You mean like build this mobile website m.hopescornercafe.com for my $2000 client?

      Originally Posted by Eddie Spangler View Post

      (As someone else has already noted, you want to "argue" with experienced people giving you good advice and you are criticizing their delivery method rather than listening to the message)
      No, that's not it. I don't appreciate trying to be made to look like a lazy fool who sits around all day kicking tires because I ask a lot of questions. Did anyone even ask me if I've gained any clients in the 6 weeks since I started my business? No. They all just assume I don't and try to make me look bad. Mak's advice wasn't to try to help me, it was to try and make me look bad. How do I know? Because he never asked how many clients I've generated since I started.
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      • Profile picture of the author DABK
        Back to the original point, everybody, including me, is saying, Don't do it. That's because it's hard to set it up right, where you have full control and there's a way to measure results accurately.

        You could get him/her 2 times the number of visitors to the site and he/she could change something in the way they convert the leads and end up with the same number of sales as before you did anything.

        The change could be something the owner's not aware of... Unless you can check on how each employee does his/her tasks at all time...

        It's nice that you want to guarantee results. But you should guarantee only what you do. Guarantee things like: I will create a 7-page mobile website within 7 days for $799. Every day I'm late delivering it, the sum you owe me goes down $50.
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      • Profile picture of the author umc
        Originally Posted by PaulintheSticks View Post

        You mean like build this mobile website m.hopescornercafe.com for my $2000 client?
        Hey man, just so you know, your "hours" page doesn't work at all, and your "reviews" and "photos" pages have nothing but sample material in them. It may be a work in progress, or you may be having issues, but I was curious as to what you were giving up on a mobile site for two grand, so I checked it out. Hope you can get those things worked out for your client.
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        • Profile picture of the author PaulintheSticks
          I guess its a good thing I asked about doing the performance based option. Otherwise I might have gotten myself into some major headaches.

          Originally Posted by umc View Post

          Hey man, just so you know, your "hours" page doesn't work at all, and your "reviews" and "photos" pages have nothing but sample material in them. It may be a work in progress, or you may be having issues, but I was curious as to what you were giving up on a mobile site for two grand, so I checked it out. Hope you can get those things worked out for your client.
          Yea, its a work in progress. And the $2000 is for a package including both desktop and mobile sites, a testimonial video, facebook page and some market research.
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      • Profile picture of the author mjbmedia
        Originally Posted by PaulintheSticks View Post

        Well I just picked up a real check for $1000 last week from one of the 4 real clients that you assume I don't have.
        .
        right and how did you win that client? By worrying and working on the back office stuff, or by selling, I rest my case.

        We are on your side Paul , you seem to think we're all against you, no way mate.
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        • Profile picture of the author PaulintheSticks
          Originally Posted by mjbmedia View Post

          Where did I say you don't have any clients?
          Originally Posted by mjbmedia View Post

          Why bother having all the back office stuff if you dont have any clients to service
          Do you deal with your clients like this? Making assumptions and recommendations without asking questions so you know what recommendations to make?

          Originally Posted by mjbmedia View Post

          We are on your side Paul , you seem to think we're all against you, no way mate.
          I don't think you're against me but you're ruining my credibility on this forum and you don't know what you're talking about as evidenced by your above quote.

          Originally Posted by umc View Post

          Face the demons that are holding you back.
          And now I'm demon possessed because I ask a lot of questions lol

          Originally Posted by umc View Post

          I've seen a few of your posts where you have told long time successful marketers that their advice is horrible.
          A bold faced lie. Please post a link or quit ruining my credibility.
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          • Profile picture of the author umc
            Originally Posted by PaulintheSticks View Post

            Do you deal with your clients like this? Making assumptions and recommendations without asking questions so you know what recommendations to make?



            I don't think you're against me but you're ruining my credibility on this forum and you don't know what you're talking about as evidenced by your above quote.



            And now I'm demon possessed because I ask a lot of questions lol



            A bold faced lie. Please post a link or quit ruining my credibility.

            Dude, what is your problem? First, you have no credibility to ruin. Second, you're doing a good job of arguing and fighting with everyone because they dared to answer questions that you apparently felt that you already had your answers to. If you want examples, see this thread and your reaction to advice, and then go revisit Bob Ross's thread where you got all butt hurt because you thought he was condescending and took offense to advice that he didn't even aim at you specifically. If looking to be offended and being defensive is your method of interacting with others, good luck in your business.
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  • Profile picture of the author misterme
    "I can do this one of two ways, Mr. Prospect. Pay me purely based on results. That would be 25% of gross sales per month, which according to the figures we worked out is possible, would be $LotsaMoney. Then I also need you to sign off on my accountant being able to audit your books. Or, a simpler way, you can do a monthly retainer of $MuchLessThan25%. Which would you prefer?"
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by misterme View Post

      "I can do this one of two ways, Mr. Prospect. Pay me purely based on results. That would be 25% of gross sales per month, which according to the figures we worked out is possible, would be . Then I also need you to sign off on my accountant being able to audit your books. Or, a simpler way, you can do a monthly retainer of %. Which would you prefer?"
      Like Misterme said. I've offered "Pay For Results" before, but it was always to sell a specific dollar fee up front as an attractive option.

      I know it's possible to have a happy client write you ever increasing check every month...but that's not my experience.


      Either the project generates little profit, and you are blamed, or the project is wildly profitable, and the client resents giving you the checks.

      Again, just my experience.
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  • Profile picture of the author Eddie Spangler
    This guy is a HUGE egomaniac, everything is about him.
    Wonder if that comes across to people he is pitching.

    This man asks for opinions then critiques the tone in which they are being delivered.
    If you dont answer the question to his satisfaction AND deliver in the right way , all of the sudden you are RUINING HIS CREDIBILITY.-lol

    Get a grip man!!!
    You are about as credible as a homeless guy wearing a "will work for food" sign.

    Yes Paul this WHOLE internet board is teaming up against YOU.
    Oh no . please stop hurting my feelings, Im very sensitive.


    This is all in good fun, I hope you can realize this and laugh about it one day and say
    "Man those WF guys gave me a hard time, but I really deserved it!, Thanks for being real guys"

    Seriously and sincerely I hope you do well Paul, you seem to have a good heart and perhaps that is one reason you are being so overly sensitive around here.
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    • Profile picture of the author PaulintheSticks
      Originally Posted by umc View Post

      arguing and fighting with everyone because they dared to answer questions
      The only question I asked was how to price my services. Who was I fighting and arguing with about that? If someone's answer doesn't make sense, I make counterpoints and ask more questions. I wouldn't call that fighting and arguing.

      Originally Posted by umc View Post

      If you want examples, see this thread and your reaction to advice, and then go revisit Bob Ross's thread
      Come on umc, do I really need to quote it again?

      Originally Posted by umc View Post

      I've seen a few of your posts where you have told long time successful marketers that their advice is horrible.
      I never said Bob's advice was horrible. Are you going to back up your statement or not?

      Originally Posted by Eddie Spangler View Post

      This man asks for opinions then critiques the tone in which they are being delivered. If you dont answer the question to his satisfaction AND deliver in the right way , all of the sudden you are RUINING HIS CREDIBILITY.-lol
      What was my question: How do I price my service?

      What was Mak's answer: Quit asking questions and go sell something.

      Originally Posted by Eddie Spangler View Post

      This is all in good fun, I hope you can realize this and laugh about it one day and say
      "Man those WF guys gave me a hard time, but I really deserved it!, Thanks for being real guys"

      Seriously and sincerely I hope you do well Paul, you seem to have a good heart and perhaps that is one reason you are being so overly sensitive around here.
      Its all good. Life's too short to hold grudges. But I have to stick to my principles and when I feel I'm being stereotyped (lazy tire kicker who doesn't do anything) or judged, I won't back down.
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  • Profile picture of the author markpocock
    Google "David Abingdon"

    He runs the Alchemy business coach franchises.

    He's been paid a few million by working for a share of increased profits.
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    Get a FREE 20 minute consultation on your sales letter. Contact me today
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  • Profile picture of the author SpankinNewbie
    Hey Mak25, I'll pay you to give me a kick in the a** like that! I get stuck on this d**n forum and get paralyzed. :p
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    • Profile picture of the author umc
      My apologies Paul. It wasn't Bob Ross that you accused of having horrible advice as I accused you. You only said that his post was by far the most condescending thing you have read on here ever, despite the fact that he wasn't talking directly to you, and accused him of belittling his readers. It was on this thread where you said that Mak offered the worst advice you had ever heard. I got your hyperbole and whining confused, and offer my sincerest apologies. Best wishes going forth. Consider your credibility restored. I'll move on now to more productive things.
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