If you're a lead gen company...

11 years ago

Interesting study, the lead response management study has.

Thanks

Originally Posted by TheBigBee

This is a must read: THE LEAD RESPONSE MANAGEMENT STUDY

Fantastic information in there that when used correctly, should reflect itself in your bottom line. I personally feel that the buying and selling of leads doesn't make sense - in most cases. UNLESS those leads are bought and sold within the first 5 minutes as you are 21x more likely to qualify a lead in that time frame.

The key problem that companies have with lead generation companies is simple; they don't think they're getting high enough conversions. If you want to provide a premium product (great leads) align your strategy around the data. Use common sense and simple technology (off the shelf stuff) to supply them with leads that have the best mathematical chance of converting. The numbers won't lie, and you'll be able to charge a premium for higher quality leads.

Depending on how you source your traffic, you may be well positioned to automate a lot of your lead generation processes. If you can control the top of the funnel in any given market - that's power, clearly, power is money. The types of businesses who are mortally afraid of the internet are most vulnerable to your eating their lunch. Plumbers are a great example. I'd recommend you aggregate as much of the traffic to your page and do the following:

Set up an infrastructure whereby you can connect all of your clients with internet leads in 20 seconds or less. For instance, you can sign up 10 plumbers, and have lead 1 go to plumber A, lead 2 go to plumber B, and so on - round robin style.
Route Mapping / Lead Qualification - What are you plumbers' criteria for knowing whether or not it's a good lead? Integrate their criterion so that time and money is not wasted on low intentioned browsers.
Use a super simple IVR for call in leads - When a lead calls in, as opposed to entering information on a web form, make sure the number is local, and have the back-end processes set up to connect that caller round robin style yet again; (lead 1, plumber A, lead 2, plumber B)...

The key is that you have generated the lead, but the only person the customer is interacting with, is the service provider. Simple route mapping on your page filters out the junk - saving time and money on using humans to 'qualify' leads.

The cool thing is that you will have recordings (when set up correctly) of every phone call initiated. This is useful information you can put into action. By listening to the calls, you can spot common threads / trends and respond accordingly. If you hear the same question over and over again, perhaps using a video on your page to answer it pr-emptively will help drive conversions.

I'm pretty active in this area... happy to answer additional questions.

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upmatthews

11 years ago

Interesting information. Can you tell me what kind of technology is available to get the lead to the buyer quicker? Is there any that is internet based?

Thanks

Thanks
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TheBigBee

11 years ago

Originally Posted by upmatthews

Interesting information. Can you tell me what kind of technology is available to get the lead to the buyer quicker? Is there any that is internet based?

Thanks

It's all Internet / cloud based. PM me for specifics.

Thanks

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YellowGreenMedia

11 years ago

Great study, thanks for the information...

I always press this to my clients as all the leads i generate is redirected by phone, that they have to react immediately, and not let the call go to voicemail to answer at the end of the day... Cus changes are that the lead dried up...

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RiskTaker

11 years ago

what we have found sometimes that the buyers themselves aren't even setup to take the calls in volume or bulk.

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RedShifted

11 years ago

I think a lot of people persue lead generation the wrong way.

They look at service magics business model and believe thats the right way to do it. Provide cheap crappy leads for as many business owners as possible, regardless of the quality, then have people fight over them like rabid dogs locked in a cage.

I think it would be far better, easier, and more lucractive, to just work with 1 company... or potentially 2 or 3. But no more than that.

Get real personal with each company. Learn everything there is to know about them, and their niches. Set up their entire sales funnel, track everything, and deliver leads immediately just like you say.

However, collect a commission or "royalty" on every sale they make. One company that I've been working with for the last 12 months, all the leads I send them are free. I don't charge them anything on the front end. I charge on the back end or sale.

And I am able to charge A LOT more this way.

For the niches I'm in (contracting) it works beautifully. And lets face it, these leads are not easy to come buy either. These are educated people in a buying mindset, prescreened, prequalified, and typically 6/10 leads will get closed.

Depending on the type of work I will collect an 8-12% commission. Although thats not really true. It really depends on how ballsy the salesman was and what the companies profit margin was for xxx job. So I negotiate my commission on every sale. It rarely produces problems like people think. But you have to become "that guy". You need to build a strong relationship with the company, and you eventually become a part of their team. You just work from home.

Doing lead generation this way, small, ultrafocused, and ultrapersonal, will produce a great income. You do NOT need to sell leads individually to a million different companies. Another thing I like about working this way is you SERIOUSLY help the few companies you're working with. I mean what sounds better to you? Selling a few leads to a bunch of different companies at some perceived faced value, which really dilutes the value of what you're doing, or helping a few select companies explode their profits? And determine the value of the leads AFTER you have a # in the books?

Then collect your share based on that number?

To me, its always been the latter that makes most sense. So thats the way I do it. However, I only do this for niches with a huge profit margin. I'm not sure it would work so well for a painter or plumber. But for any type of home improvement work, masonry, fire restoration, roofing, kitchens, solar panels, etc... there are huge profit margins on these jobs. So if you think its wise to sell leads for $30-$60 a pop, for a job thats potentially worth $10,000-$30,000, you're out of your mind imo.

-Red

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ewenmack

11 years ago

I'm all for going for the one lead generation client/partner as Red says too.

I kinda fell into it from a paid consultation.
After discussing her business model and the profit margins
I wanted in.

A month or 2 later, I put a proposal to her to see if she would be interested in me driving the leads using a different media to her,
no charge, just pay on closed sale.

She loved the concept and then we just went through the finer details
to make it work.

It's a national client opportunity and my 30% cut equates to a minimum $1,000 per closed deal.

So it has nationwide scale and high margins which allow for
paid advertising methods.

All I'll say is it's in the financial services sector.

Best,
Ewen

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dunkinbbb

11 years ago

Originally Posted by ewenmack

I'm all for going for the one lead generation client/partner as Red says too.

I kinda fell into it from a paid consultation.
After discussing her business model and the profit margins
I wanted in.

A month or 2 later, I put a proposal to her to see if she would be interested in me driving the leads using a different media to her,
no charge, just pay on closed sale.

She loved the concept and then we just went through the finer details
to make it work.

It's a national client opportunity and my 30% cut equates to a minimum $1,000 per closed deal.

So it has nationwide scale and high margins which allow for
paid advertising methods.

All I'll say is it's in the financial services sector.

Best,
Ewen

Ewen/Red

Makes sense - but you've left out the crucial step - tracking and getting paid - especially - as it sounds like in your case, Ewen, the business isn't local to you.

I provided leads - recorded the calls via CallFire - they sound good and set up appointments on the call - but had no way of knowing the outcome - other than the "honor system" - which is no way to run a business.

Suggestions?

Bill

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ewenmack

11 years ago

I own the email address and domain name.

The broker sends weekly reports of where the lead is in the application cycle.

I have phone number of lead which I can follow up with
in case I want to do an audit.

Then there is the gut check where I feel she will do the right thing.

Best,
Ewen

Originally Posted by dunkinbbb

Ewen/Red

Makes sense - but you've left out the crucial step - tracking and getting paid - especially - as it sounds like in your case, Ewen, the business isn't local to you.

I provided leads - recorded the calls via CallFire - they sound good and set up appointments on the call - but had no way of knowing the outcome - other than the "honor system" - which is no way to run a business.

Suggestions?

Bill

[ 2 ] Thanks
1 reply

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shockwave

11 years ago

Originally Posted by ewenmack

I own the email address and domain name.

The broker sends weekly reports of where the lead is in the application cycle.

I have phone number of lead which I can follow up with
in case I want to do an audit.

Then there is the gut check where I feel she will do the right thing.

Best,
Ewen

I agree with Dunkin, sure this all makes sense if you already have an established relationship with the contractor and can trust them, but what Red/Ewen purpose means you'll have to put in extra work to follow up and track the sales process (even if they do send you a weekly report of where it's at in the sales pipeline).

Personally, I don't like to put my chances of success on someone else's ability to sell.

I used to work for Service Tragic...(ooops...did I say that? lol) and I can tell you, if you want to do the 'ol "don't pay me until you turn a lead into a sale" lead generation plan, you will find a TON of contractors that would love to take you up on that offer all day long! Heck, go on Craigslist, there are plenty of Contractors in all trades looking for commission only sales people. In this case, you are a commission only marketing person.

I think I would rather sell/rent an already ranked site or sell exclusive leads.

Thanks
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barry500 11 years ago

Interesting thread - personally I am all for pay on results if done intelligently, if we provide a lead and by that I mean a confirmed appointment then we need to be paid for that work. Our client pays nothing for our time but does pay when we book a meeting in the diary for them.

To wait until they sell something would not only hinder cashflow but leave us dependent on their ability to sell or the quality of their commercial offering. Just a personal perspective but once we have created the appointment it is down to them to convert
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ewenmack

11 years ago

In my case, the lead is pre sold and is just filling in a loan application form.

Like any other loan application, the client needs to be approved,
so it's different to a local contractor where they can seek quotes from a few others. And I'm not sure I would want to have a pure commission on sale arrangement in this case.

Best,
Ewen

Originally Posted by shockwave

I agree with Dunkin, sure this all makes sense if you already have an established relationship with the contractor and can trust them, but what Red/Ewen purpose means you'll have to put in extra work to follow up and track the sales process (even if they do send you a weekly report of where it's at in the sales pipeline).

Personally, I don't like to put my chances of success on someone else's ability to sell.

I used to work for Service Tragic...(ooops...did I say that? lol) and I can tell you, if you want to do the 'ol "don't pay me until you turn a lead into a sale" lead generation plan, you will find a TON of contractors that would love to take you up on that offer all day long! Heck, go on Craigslist, there are plenty of Contractors in all trades looking for commission only sales people. In this case, you are a commission only marketing person.

I think I would rather sell/rent an already ranked site or sell exclusive leads.

Thanks

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jgant

11 years ago

Originally Posted by RedShifted

I think a lot of people persue lead generation the wrong way.

They look at service magics business model and believe thats the right way to do it. Provide cheap crappy leads for as many business owners as possible, regardless of the quality, then have people fight over them like rabid dogs locked in a cage.

I think it would be far better, easier, and more lucractive, to just work with 1 company... or potentially 2 or 3. But no more than that.

Get real personal with each company. Learn everything there is to know about them, and their niches. Set up their entire sales funnel, track everything, and deliver leads immediately just like you say.

However, collect a commission or "royalty" on every sale they make. One company that I've been working with for the last 12 months, all the leads I send them are free. I don't charge them anything on the front end. I charge on the back end or sale.

And I am able to charge A LOT more this way.

For the niches I'm in (contracting) it works beautifully. And lets face it, these leads are not easy to come buy either. These are educated people in a buying mindset, prescreened, prequalified, and typically 6/10 leads will get closed.

Depending on the type of work I will collect an 8-12% commission. Although thats not really true. It really depends on how ballsy the salesman was and what the companies profit margin was for xxx job. So I negotiate my commission on every sale. It rarely produces problems like people think. But you have to become "that guy". You need to build a strong relationship with the company, and you eventually become a part of their team. You just work from home.

Doing lead generation this way, small, ultrafocused, and ultrapersonal, will produce a great income. You do NOT need to sell leads individually to a million different companies. Another thing I like about working this way is you SERIOUSLY help the few companies you're working with. I mean what sounds better to you? Selling a few leads to a bunch of different companies at some perceived faced value, which really dilutes the value of what you're doing, or helping a few select companies explode their profits? And determine the value of the leads AFTER you have a # in the books?

Then collect your share based on that number?

To me, its always been the latter that makes most sense. So thats the way I do it. However, I only do this for niches with a huge profit margin. I'm not sure it would work so well for a painter or plumber. But for any type of home improvement work, masonry, fire restoration, roofing, kitchens, solar panels, etc... there are huge profit margins on these jobs. So if you think its wise to sell leads for $30-$60 a pop, for a job thats potentially worth $10,000-$30,000, you're out of your mind imo.

-Red

This is exactly what I do, except I have flat fee commissions and for one form of referral, I receive a flat fee plus percentage of the sale.

My average commission in 2012 was $400. I work with 3 local clients, but earn the lion's share of my local lead gen revenue from one client that offers 3 services. I promote all services in 3 towns so I have a good size market to target.

Thanks

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mrtrance

11 years ago

Originally Posted by RedShifted

I think a lot of people persue lead generation the wrong way.

They look at service magics business model and believe thats the right way to do it. Provide cheap crappy leads for as many business owners as possible, regardless of the quality, then have people fight over them like rabid dogs locked in a cage.

I think it would be far better, easier, and more lucractive, to just work with 1 company... or potentially 2 or 3. But no more than that.

Get real personal with each company. Learn everything there is to know about them, and their niches. Set up their entire sales funnel, track everything, and deliver leads immediately just like you say.

However, collect a commission or "royalty" on every sale they make. One company that I've been working with for the last 12 months, all the leads I send them are free. I don't charge them anything on the front end. I charge on the back end or sale.

And I am able to charge A LOT more this way.

For the niches I'm in (contracting) it works beautifully. And lets face it, these leads are not easy to come buy either. These are educated people in a buying mindset, prescreened, prequalified, and typically 6/10 leads will get closed.

Depending on the type of work I will collect an 8-12% commission. Although thats not really true. It really depends on how ballsy the salesman was and what the companies profit margin was for xxx job. So I negotiate my commission on every sale. It rarely produces problems like people think. But you have to become "that guy". You need to build a strong relationship with the company, and you eventually become a part of their team. You just work from home.

Doing lead generation this way, small, ultrafocused, and ultrapersonal, will produce a great income. You do NOT need to sell leads individually to a million different companies. Another thing I like about working this way is you SERIOUSLY help the few companies you're working with. I mean what sounds better to you? Selling a few leads to a bunch of different companies at some perceived faced value, which really dilutes the value of what you're doing, or helping a few select companies explode their profits? And determine the value of the leads AFTER you have a # in the books?

Then collect your share based on that number?

To me, its always been the latter that makes most sense. So thats the way I do it. However, I only do this for niches with a huge profit margin. I'm not sure it would work so well for a painter or plumber. But for any type of home improvement work, masonry, fire restoration, roofing, kitchens, solar panels, etc... there are huge profit margins on these jobs. So if you think its wise to sell leads for $30-$60 a pop, for a job thats potentially worth $10,000-$30,000, you're out of your mind imo.

-Red

Hey Red,

Did you ever finish that one report you were going to and possibly share with us about your lead generation system? I don't know if it was going to be released as a WSO or not, but you mention in that thread that you were working on something about this whole lead generation method that you were very successful with.

Thanks

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RichBeck

11 years ago

Originally Posted by RedShifted

I think a lot of people persue lead generation the wrong way.

They look at service magics business model and believe thats the right way to do it. Provide cheap crappy leads for as many business owners as possible, regardless of the quality, then have people fight over them like rabid dogs locked in a cage.

I think it would be far better, easier, and more lucractive, to just work with 1 company... or potentially 2 or 3. But no more than that.

Get real personal with each company. Learn everything there is to know about them, and their niches. Set up their entire sales funnel, track everything, and deliver leads immediately just like you say.

However, collect a commission or "royalty" on every sale they make. One company that I've been working with for the last 12 months, all the leads I send them are free. I don't charge them anything on the front end. I charge on the back end or sale.

And I am able to charge A LOT more this way.

For the niches I'm in (contracting) it works beautifully. And lets face it, these leads are not easy to come buy either. These are educated people in a buying mindset, prescreened, prequalified, and typically 6/10 leads will get closed.

Depending on the type of work I will collect an 8-12% commission. Although thats not really true. It really depends on how ballsy the salesman was and what the companies profit margin was for xxx job. So I negotiate my commission on every sale. It rarely produces problems like people think. But you have to become "that guy". You need to build a strong relationship with the company, and you eventually become a part of their team. You just work from home.

Doing lead generation this way, small, ultrafocused, and ultrapersonal, will produce a great income. You do NOT need to sell leads individually to a million different companies. Another thing I like about working this way is you SERIOUSLY help the few companies you're working with. I mean what sounds better to you? Selling a few leads to a bunch of different companies at some perceived faced value, which really dilutes the value of what you're doing, or helping a few select companies explode their profits? And determine the value of the leads AFTER you have a # in the books?

Then collect your share based on that number?

To me, its always been the latter that makes most sense. So thats the way I do it. However, I only do this for niches with a huge profit margin. I'm not sure it would work so well for a painter or plumber. But for any type of home improvement work, masonry, fire restoration, roofing, kitchens, solar panels, etc... there are huge profit margins on these jobs. So if you think its wise to sell leads for $30-$60 a pop, for a job thats potentially worth $10,000-$30,000, you're out of your mind imo.

-Red

Red,

That is very true....

My position has always been charge business owners for the money you are putting in their pocket... not for contact information.

It makes the sale much easier.... Everyone wants more money...

Take Care,

Rich Beck BCIP, MCSD, MCIS

Thanks

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SoundsGood 11 years ago

Originally Posted by RedShifted

I don't charge them anything on the front end. I charge on the back end or sale. Depending on the type of work I will collect an 8-12% commission.

I've thought about doing this, but... how do you know if they really made the sale or not AND how do you know what they charged the customer? etc, etc...

Know what I mean?
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- npk 11 years ago
  
  any experts please answer the above...especially with contractors.
  
  I certainly see the logic in getting a backend commission, but keeping people honest can be difficult. Solution?
  
  Thanks
  
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  Freelance appointment setter/copywriter.
  I can help with getting you leads and/or sales scripts.
  I also broker lists, both business and consumer.
  PM for details.
  
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YellowGreenMedia

11 years ago

The way RedShifted has setup his business is surely the way to make more money on your leads, but you have to have a good trust with the business-owners...

I just don't have that kind of trust in people/business-owners that they will be honest when they get the job, i have been burned enough to have a healthy distrust in people..

By selling the leads exclusive to one company i can still charge a nice amount of money without the hassle of checking and tracking the clients sales efforts ...

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bobmcalister

11 years ago

yeah...I did marketing for a real estate broker. We recd some money up front , and we agreed on a 2k marketing fee per sale. I collected 5k upfront..1k for the website and 4k for the first 2 sales, which was fine. She went from 119 on MLS to number 2 in 60 days, had to hire additional staff and sold 27 homes ...we were not paid. Had a signed contract and an attorney ready to go and I settled for a partial payment.
Since then I havent done any back end payments. Unless you can track and verify the inventory increases/sales, I would hesitate or just count it as manna if you get paid.

would like to know more about tracking the calls etc if anyone would like to share. thanks !

Thanks

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RedShifted

11 years ago

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bawls 11 years ago

selling on a % of bid or contract can be very profitable but here is why I don't do it.

1. I am relying on the clients ability to seal the deal which most of them suck.

2. you can always adjust your per lead cost to an average % of business you create for the business.

3. I hate chasing money it is the most time consuming thing you can do, that you don't get paid for.

4. the more working parts the more room for error, I work solely on a K.I.S.S. model.

you may miss out on some big cash occasionally but I did not start vending leads to do actual work.
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- MrJeff 11 years ago
  
  I am extremely interested in the lead gen service though I'm just in the learning phase of this. So forgive me if my question is unthinkable.
  
  Wouldn't it be less complicated to sell the lead gen service for a flat monthly fee? Might make less in the long run but now your service is on auto pilot. It seems that even if you sell each lead you still have to chase them down for payment. Email them an invoice and have to wait for them to make payment whereas a flat monthly fee can be set up as a reoccurring payment through paypal and then the payment is always on time.
  
  Thanks,
  -Jeff
  
  Thanks
  
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DaniMc

11 years ago

I'm not sure why you guys worry so much about the company's ability to sell or their honesty. Those are two very simple problems to solve. It seems as if maybe a few of you want to do this business but are finding excuses not to act on it. Self-sabotaging behavior is common.

If you want to and think you can sell leads to these companies then just do it! You can work out the details as you go. Finding NEW problems is the only way to grow. You should be happy when you need to find a solution to a new problem, it means you are making progress in a way you have never seen before.

Here are two very, very simple solutions to these two problems:

1 - Concerned about the company's ability to sell: Only target and work with the largest and most successful companies in any niche. They are the largest for a reason and that reason is that they know how to go from a cold lead to a sale. These companies almost ALWAYS charge the highest price in town also. Sometimes higher by x2 or more. If you are building a real business, you should always target the top players anyway. Dealing with broke people is a way to go broke.

2 - Concerned about the company not paying: Revenue sharing deals are as old as time. This practice predates the internet and is responsible for many fortunes. You have ALL the information about the lead. Just wait one month, and call them back. Make it an automatic part of your business process. Lead comes in > Schedule call-back appointment. Call them and ask about their experience and how they were treated. Ask why they did or did not pick your company. Thank them for their time and move on. You will know whether or not the company was honest. If you find they didn't pay you, kindly ask them about it, there may have been an oversight. If they refuse to pay you, replace them and then sue the hell out of them for breach of contract.

These are easy problems to solve. If you want to do something, don't talk about it. Don't talk yourself out of it. Just ACT for God's sake.

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YellowGreenMedia

11 years ago

1 - Concerned about the company's ability to sell: Only target and work with the largest and most successful companies in any niche. They are the largest for a reason and that reason is that they know how to go from a cold lead to a sale. These companies almost ALWAYS charge the highest price in town also. Sometimes higher by x2 or more. If you are building a real business, you should always target the top players anyway. Dealing with broke people is a way to go broke.

Having a large company as client doesn't mean that their sales department/guy does a good job with the leads your sending them, i have seen lots of big companies (100+ employers) with lousy sales process... but because they spent tons on advertising they get anough leads to be big as they are.

2 - Concerned about the company not paying: Revenue sharing deals are as old as time. This practice predates the internet and is responsible for many fortunes. You have ALL the information about the lead. Just wait one month, and call them back. Make it an automatic part of your business process. Lead comes in > Schedule call-back appointment. Call them and ask about their experience and how they were treated. Ask why they did or did not pick your company. Thank them for their time and move on. You will know whether or not the company was honest. If you find they didn't pay you, kindly ask them about it, there may have been an oversight. If they refuse to pay you, replace them and then sue the hell out of them for breach of contract.

That is a good way to go if you want to go this route, for me it's just to much of a hassle, i really don't think clients will be thrilled when you check up on them, a lot of business is done on trust, if they starting to notice that you don't trust them it could end up losing the client.

This has nothing to do with creating problems btw, just let people know the up and downside of both methods, the flat fee downside is that you will be making a lot less for a lead, the upside (for me that is) you don't have to hassle with dealing with the sales department of the company.

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DaniMc

11 years ago

Originally Posted by YellowGreenMedia

Having a large company as client doesn't mean that their sales department/guy does a good job with the leads your sending them, i have seen lots of big companies (100+ employers) with lousy sales process... but because they spent tons on advertising they get anough leads to be big as they are.

How did they get all that money to advertise? I also included the words "most successful."

Typically the market leaders are in that position because of their ability to create customers. It isn't easy being on top. They fought for, and won, that position.

That is a good way to go if you want to go this route, for me it's just to much of a hassle, i really don't think clients will be thrilled when you check up on them, a lot of business is done on trust, if they starting to notice that you don't trust them it could end up losing the client.

This has nothing to do with creating problems btw, just let people know the up and downside of both methods, the flat fee downside is that you will be making a lot less for a lead, the upside (for me that is) you don't have to hassle with dealing with the sales department of the company.

It's not "checking up" - it's just a customer service call. If they aren't thrilled then you can take these golden egg leads somewhere else. And is it really a hassle to call a few numbers a day? Don't you do that in your business anyway?

I will gladly make a few calls per day if I can double or triple the price of my product. Generating more revenue is all that matters.

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YellowGreenMedia

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan McCoy

How did they get all that money to advertise? I also included the words "most successful."

Typically the market leaders are in that position because of their ability to create customers. It isn't easy being on top. They fought for, and won, that position.

How they got so big, well they probably have a good marketing machine, but getting leads and closing leads is a big difference... like i sad before i know a lot of big companies that have a shitty sales process

It's not "checking up" - it's just a customer service call. If they aren't thrilled then you can take these golden egg leads somewhere else. And is it really a hassle to call a few numbers a day? Don't you do that in your business anyway?

I will gladly make a few calls per day if I can double or triple the price of my product. Generating more revenue is all that matters.

No it more then just a view phone calls, you could even be legally responsible if jobs go bad, you have to create legal contracts with your clients, you will have to cover your ass, that will bring a lot of hassle and legal cost imho.

But he, if this is the way you make your money with your leads God bless, it is not my way of doing it, i like to keep it as simple as possible and if i have to sacrifice some revenue for simplicity i most certainly will .

But i am not saying your method is wrong or anything, you'll probably end up making more money than me, it is just not my way.

Thanks

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