How Do You Guys Deal With This!?

23 replies
I had client verbally agree to a contract of lets call it 4 slices on Friday. This morning he bid it down (and scaled down the workload) to 2 slices. This after noon, he again bid it down (and scaled down more work) to 1 slice. 1 slice is completely not worth my time, and so I walked.

I'm used to getting commission checks, paychecks, or exchanging cash for goods... This consulting stuff (negotiating contracts) is brand new to me. The first couple of deals were exciting, but it seems like my strategy of submitting nose bleed bids with the expectation that the prospective client will negotiate it down is becoming a negative value prop...

How do you guys deal with these types of situations and these types of clients. It seems like everyone in my niche assumes I must be desperate for the business because I give away so much high value free info as a means to solicit calls... Imagine posting on Warrior Forum and your phone ringing with 5 new prospects each week because of it. Now imagine all of those prospects admitting to, and seeing tremendous value in what you have to offer, but only 2 pay you what you actually deserve.

How do you deal with the "lets start with an itty bitty teeny weeny" contract and then "we can do big things later...?" I don't buy into b.s. so I turn down the crumbs... Should I be accepting them?

Your advice is humbly appreciated it.
#deal #guys
  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    As you know...

    Keeping the pipeline full of prospects, so that you dont have to hang your hope on every individual one is best. There are always going to be guys like that.... they are just a number. "Next". You are going to come across them over all the numbers... he's a glorified tire kicker.... a "type". You will see more of them...just let em go and move on.
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    • Profile picture of the author Anthem40
      The details seem a bit ambiguous but I think you may have honestly hit the nail on the head at least as to why this happening. You don't have negotiation experience.

      If 1 slice isn't worth your time and you are unwilling to work for that 1 slice, make 3 or 4 slices your absolute bottom line. You don't want to work for crumbs, so the outcome of a business not being willing to pay more than 3 slices is concrete; You don't form a relationship. It's over and you move on, and you have saved yourself some time.

      Business owners who are savvy will always push during negotiations. If you stand firm, you get paid what you want. If they won't pay, someone else can have their crumbs. From the sound of your timeline, I would imagine you may have folded far to quickly during negotiations which is a massive red flag for the actual value of what you are offering.

      For example, a few weeks ago I was negotiating the price of a set of great condition used tires. I countered at 33% below his ask, and to my surprise, he accepted quickly with a smile and just as fast was off to the cash register. This did make me feel like I overpaid because he was so quick to take my bid without even countering that.
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    • Profile picture of the author TheBigBee
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      As you know...

      Keeping the pipeline full of prospects, so that you dont have to hang your hope on every individual one is best. There are always going to be guys like that.... they are just a number. "Next". You are going to come across them over all the numbers... he's a glorified tire kicker.... a "type". You will see more of them...just let em go and move on.
      Thanks John,

      Do you think I should take a more "sales letter style" approach to posting on forums? I may be over-thinking myself... Should the info I post on these niche forums be actionable (as it is now), or should I tone it down to make it informative enough to arouse their curiosity?
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      • Profile picture of the author Anthem40
        Originally Posted by TheBigBee View Post

        Thanks John,

        Do you think I should take a more "sales letter style" approach to posting on forums? I may be over-thinking myself... Should the info I post on these niche forums be actionable (as it is now), or should I tone it down to make it informative enough to arouse their curiosity?
        People come to forums, primarily, for the community. They may be bouncing ideas, looking for info etc., but the reason people come remains the same.

        Save the sales like stuff for your websites you send people to. If you don't have a conversational tone on a forum people will believe you are there only for their money and give you no credit. Be here for the community and people won't mind giving you their money.
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        95% of IM'ers have great relationships with clients who also advertise offline and with other people. Stop missing out on that cash and leverage into it. PM me if you are an established marketer and want to find out how.
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        • Profile picture of the author TheBigBee
          Originally Posted by Anthem40 View Post

          The details seem a bit ambiguous but I think you may have honestly hit the nail on the head at least as to why this happening. You don't have negotiation experience.

          If 1 slice isn't worth your time and you are unwilling to work for that 1 slice, make 3 or 4 slices your absolute bottom line. You don't want to work for crumbs, so the outcome of a business not being willing to pay more than 3 slices is concrete; You don't form a relationship. It's over and you move on, and you have saved yourself some time.

          Business owners who are savvy will always push during negotiations. If you stand firm, you get paid what you want. If they won't pay, someone else can have their crumbs. From the sound of your timeline, I would imagine you may have folded far to quickly during negotiations which is a massive red flag for the actual value of what you are offering.

          For example, a few weeks ago I was negotiating the price of a set of great condition used tires. I countered at 33% below his ask, and to my surprise, he accepted quickly with a smile and just as fast was off to the cash register. This did make me feel like I overpaid because he was so quick to take my bid without even countering that.
          Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan View Post

          Another possibility is that this prospect simply didn't have the money to afford your full offer. But they a) wanted to see what they could get, and b) didn't want to feel embarrassed by saying their bank account wasn't big enough to handle it.

          Also, now that you educated them on everything they needed to know and made a proposal, they may have used it as a negotiating tool. They found what you offer at a lower price per slice, and don't need you anymore.

          Qualification is a huge skill in sales. Need alone is not enough. You must also have fit on budget and personality.
          Originally Posted by Anthem40 View Post

          People come to forums, primarily, for the community. They may be bouncing ideas, looking for info etc., but the reason people come remains the same.

          Save the sales like stuff for your websites you send people to. If you don't have a conversational tone on a forum people will believe you are there only for their money and give you no credit. Be here for the community and people won't mind giving you their money.
          Thanks a million guys. Seems like I need to do more qualifying a crap ton more prospecting, while continuing to offer up great info on the niche forums.

          Wanted to make sure that not taking crumbs was the right play - long term.
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by TheBigBee View Post

        Thanks John,

        Do you think I should take a more "sales letter style" approach to posting on forums? I may be over-thinking myself... Should the info I post on these niche forums be actionable (as it is now), or should I tone it down to make it informative enough to arouse their curiosity?
        Depends on what you goal in posting is... I would always just plain educate. If people like your vibe, feel you are knowledgeable on your subject, and it interests them to know more, they will click. Just try to be as helpful as possible, and dont be afraid to give away too much... it all works out.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
    Another possibility is that this prospect simply didn't have the money to afford your full offer. But they a) wanted to see what they could get, and b) didn't want to feel embarrassed by saying their bank account wasn't big enough to handle it.

    Also, now that you educated them on everything they needed to know and made a proposal, they may have used it as a negotiating tool. They found what you offer at a lower price per slice, and don't need you anymore.

    Qualification is a huge skill in sales. Need alone is not enough. You must also have fit on budget and personality.

    Originally Posted by TheBigBee View Post

    I had client verbally agree to a contract of lets call it 4 slices on Friday. This morning he bid it down (and scaled down the workload) to 2 slices. This after noon, he again bid it down (and scaled down more work) to 1 slice. 1 slice is completely not worth my time, and so I walked.

    I'm used to getting commission checks, paychecks, or exchanging cash for goods... This consulting stuff (negotiating contracts) is brand new to me. The first couple of deals were exciting, but it seems like my strategy of submitting nose bleed bids with the expectation that the prospective client will negotiate it down is becoming a negative value prop...

    How do you guys deal with these types of situations and these types of clients. It seems like everyone in my niche assumes I must be desperate for the business because I give away so much high value free info as a means to solicit calls... Imagine posting on Warrior Forum and your phone ringing with 5 new prospects each week because of it. Now imagine all of those prospects admitting to, and seeing tremendous value in what you have to offer, but only 2 pay you what you actually deserve.

    How do you deal with the "lets start with an itty bitty teeny weeny" contract and then "we can do big things later...?" I don't buy into b.s. so I turn down the crumbs... Should I be accepting them?

    Your advice is humbly appreciated it.
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  • Profile picture of the author shane_k
    Originally Posted by TheBigBee View Post

    I had client verbally agree to a contract of lets call it 4 slices on Friday.
    Well a verbal agreement is just that a verbal agreement. Nothing is set in stone at this point. Not until you finanlize the contract.

    This morning he bid it down (and scaled down the workload) to 2 slices. This after noon, he again bid it down (and scaled down more work) to 1 slice. 1 slice is completely not worth my time, and so I walked.
    Ok a couple of things could be happening.

    It is possible that he couldn't afford the initial price and that was why he was bidding it down.

    This is where qualifying him ahead of time would have helped.

    It is also possible that buyers remorse started to set in even before you finalized everything.

    What you could have done was as soon as he started bidding things down was go back to what you learned about his needs and wants and use tie-downs to remind him about what he wants/needs and how your services can help get him that. In other words build up that desire and urgency again and maybe throw in a bit of, "well what will happen if you don't do this? What will you miss out on?" kind of thing.

    It is also possible that he was taught that you always need to negotiate, to never accept the first price offered.

    If this was the case then you yes you are going to have to play the negoatiation game. Even if you don't like it, or are not that skilled at it, you could have still turned this into a win win situation.

    And finally yes he could be playing with you just wanting to gather information and/or be a tire kicker. That is a possibility.


    But the only way to figure out which one of these it mght have been, is you would have to go back to the "Interviewing/gathering information" stage of the sales process.

    You could have asked him why the change?

    It's a simple question but could have given you the answer.

    Now imagine all of those prospects admitting to, and seeing tremendous value in what you have to offer, but only 2 pay you what you actually deserve.
    Well the size of the discrepancy between what you feel you deserve and what others want to pay you has to do with your sales skills.

    The more you improve your sales skills the smaller that discrepancy will be.


    How do you deal with the "lets start with an itty bitty teeny weeny" contract and then "we can do big things later...?" I don't buy into b.s. so I turn down the crumbs... Should I be accepting them?
    Well I think what you are talking about here is about trust.

    Sure you can come on this forum and say you can produce results and talk a good game and you will make sales from that.

    However, there will be others who need more. And that has to do with trust and them not knowing you, not seeing the value you can provide.

    So that is why they want to start out with the "itty bitty" stuff. They want you to prove to them that you can produce results.

    And that is a part of your job, if you want to be successful, to handle objections, calm fears, and show people that they can trust you.

    Now think about if you did this and out of those 5 initial calls you recieved, you made 3 sales instead of 2. So you made one extra sale per week. Even if at the start is began as an itty bitty deal but after a certain amount of time it turned into one of your regular sized contracts, what would that 1 extra sale per week be worth to you?

    How about 4 extra sales per month?

    Or 48 extra sales per year? What would that be worth to you?
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    • Profile picture of the author TheBigBee
      Originally Posted by shane_k View Post


      Well the size of the discrepancy between what you feel you deserve and what others want to pay you has to do with your sales skills.

      The more you improve your sales skills the smaller that discrepancy will be.

      Well I think what you are talking about here is about trust.

      Sure you can come on this forum and say you can produce results and talk a good game and you will make sales from that.

      However, there will be others who need more. And that has to do with trust and them not knowing you, not seeing the value you can provide.

      So that is why they want to start out with the "itty bitty" stuff. They want you to prove to them that you can produce results.

      And that is a part of your job, if you want to be successful, to handle objections, calm fears, and show people that they can trust you.


      How about 4 extra sales per month?

      Or 48 extra sales per year? What would that be worth to you?
      You make some good points. It should be noted that the folks / my prospects are people who have come to know of my name over the years. They saw me grow on the forum in 2007 (I didn't know a Warrior from Wonder Woman in 2007) from a neophyte looking for help with closing deals - to someone whom each time I write a post - it's box office. I talk a good game, and I back it up. My videos are cake. Me e-mail marketing plans are sexy. My rigorous data driven analysis are impetuous - no one questions my bona fides. They know who I consulted for in 2012, and they'd like to learn what I learned there. Instead of "teaching them" they gotta pay for it.

      We're talking about $6-10k / mo contracts for a coterie of services from SEO, Video, Copywriting, E-mail marketing management, etc... What's been happening is I've been getting a lot of $1k trial offers. The problem is $1k doesn't allow for me to create much value in the space of a month. They may as well buy leads.

      As for sales skills... I started door to door selling stuff no one wanted and excelled. Best training ground ever. I'm not the God of all salesmen, but I sure as heck am not in the bottom rung.

      This forum is great, but I don't think I'll be able to sell much here besides MAYBE a WSO...
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by TheBigBee View Post


        This forum is great, but I don't think I'll be able to sell much here besides MAYBE a WSO...

        Im having a Face Palm moment, mostly because I like you.

        If you will take some of the advice I have given and focus on answering peoples questions directly , specifically about the things they are asking... then, after a while, you will develop the same rep here as you have in the other forum.... But if every post you make sounds like you are trying to sell your resume, it aint going to happen. Different culture here.

        Soft sell. It's a different style than full on overt hardcore selling. Thats for ad copy, not forum posting.

        Ad copy goes in the WSO section, and its embraced there and appreciated, where its rejected here. You dont want your posts to sound like ad copy, it will (I promise with all my heart) yield the opposite effect, in general. You may get a few responses, but you wont get a thread blowing up with 20,000 views.

        Sometimes, Im a bad example.

        You hear me brag that Im an authority in my arena today on the Warrior forum, and now I take claim to that unabashedly, but I didnt put myself there....other people did.

        I just went around helping people... and they made money from the advice...and then more people made money...and WALA... people starting asking "me" to write reports.

        Thats how it came to be that way. I didnt even have a sig or any interest in writing reports at all. Now I do, and I ahve a mailing list, and its part of my overall business model, and a fairly significant income stream, for which I have no apologies, and no reason to hide that fact. Im actually proud of it.

        Forget yourself for a little while and just go around helping people, with specific answers to their specific problems with ZERO appearance of having an agenda to push any particular idea... even the idea that you are an authority... which clearly you ARE in some areas, but let THEM be the ones to decide that by merit of your advice undiluted with signs of ambitions to make a name.

        It goes back to "People dont care how much you know, till they know how much you care".

        Eventually someone will pop up and say "Big Bee's Advice made me money", and others will pay more attention. ie; "Social proof"... and they will start ASKING you for counsel and reports...

        I know that a person like yourself, like most super rockstar sales people, doesnt want to think they need the advice of people like John Durham... but if you will start listening to it, you will get what you are looking for.

        Out of curiosity, what other forum is it that you are referring to, or what KIND of forum?

        Let the readers be the ones who make you a "guru", just like you did in the other forum, and dont make yourself one; you will get alot further...

        The only reason I can brag myself (which still isnt cool, but I do it sometimes) is because I have made 500 people money here.

        If I went to another forum spouting about how people here respect my advice, they would flame the crap out of me, and make me work twice as hard to earn their respect.

        Take it slow, and let the people accept what you are offering on their own terms.

        If you want to do a WSO just do one, it can also help you to gain credibility faster if some people have good success with it...you will have social proof. Use it to start a mailing list, and your reader will come here and validate your advice publicly because it works for them.

        As far as forum posting goes, you will gain more fans by focusing more on helpful posts, that directly answer others concerns, and that dont come across as a solution looking for a problem.

        Here is when its good to spout your credentials: "When someone asks".

        I once heard a wise man say "I succeeded because I gave people exactly what they wanted, instead of trying to push something on them that I thought they might like better".

        The best thing to do is grow on people here like you did at the other forum.

        Again, I know the last thing a rockstar wants is to think they need my little advice...and you ARE a rockstar its clear....But you need my advice.

        -John
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        • Profile picture of the author TheBigBee
          Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

          Im having a Face Palm moment, mostly because I like you.



          The best thing to do is grow on people here like you did at the other forum.

          Again, I know the last thing a rockstar wants is to think they need my little advice...and you ARE a rockstar its clear....But you need my advice.

          -John
          John

          I think some of my thoughts get lost in translation. I interpreted Shane's comments as suggesting that I am having problems closing sales generated from Warrior Forum. I wanted to make it clear that I am not here scouting contracts - rather learning. I also wanted to make it clear that selling is not foreign to me.

          I actively apply more than what you may think, from you and others. Direct application has resulted in some great mutually beneficial relationships being flourished... furthermore i dont have the brand equity to do a WSO, so when I said maybe - that was like me honestly saying "IF IM LUCKY..." Not pre-selling. i have a goal and taking days to work on a WSO that I might make $50 net would be a seriously bad move.
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          • Profile picture of the author John Durham
            Originally Posted by TheBigBee View Post

            John
            I also wanted to make it clear that selling is not foreign to me.
            That is clear.

            I personally like you alot, and I see that you have a TON to offer the forum.

            As far as brand awareness, a wso is a great way to get that, you might be surprised that instead of waiting to achieve it, it could actually HELP you to achieve it more likely.
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          • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
            Originally Posted by TheBigBee View Post

            John

            I think some of my thoughts get lost in translation. I interpreted Shane's comments as suggesting that I am having problems closing sales generated from Warrior Forum. I wanted to make it clear that I am not here scouting contracts - rather learning. I also wanted to make it clear that selling is not foreign to me.

            I actively apply more than what you may think, from you and others. Direct application has resulted in some great mutually beneficial relationships being flourished... furthermore i dont have the brand equity to do a WSO, so when I said maybe - that was like me honestly saying "IF IM LUCKY..." Not pre-selling. i have a goal and taking days to work on a WSO that I might make $50 net would be a seriously bad move.
            OK so when you talk to new prospects...tell them right up front: "I only work with people who are serious, and can fund a minimum $6000 investment in the proven marketing plan I give them. Now I'm happy to explain to you what the elements of this marketing plan are, and why they are necessary. You'll probably also want to see proof that my methods work. But first, I have to know whether or not you are able to commit. Are you?"

            And those who waffle, or say no, well they qualify Out, don't they.

            Find out Now, not a week from now after you've wasted all that time with them.
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            • Profile picture of the author John Durham
              Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan View Post

              OK so when you talk to new prospects...tell them right up front: "I only work with people who are serious, and can fund a minimum $6000 investment in the proven marketing plan I give them. Now I'm happy to explain to you what the elements of this marketing plan are, and why they are necessary. You'll probably also want to see proof that my methods work. But first, I have to know whether or not you are able to commit. Are you?"

              And those who waffle, or say no, well they qualify Out, don't they.

              Find out Now, not a week from now after you've wasted all that time with them.
              Jason, like myself, is more about high probability than beating someone over the head till they convert. It's much easier to just find someone who WANTS to be converted. If it dont come easy, let it go. Life is too short to spend jumping through peoples hoops.
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              • Profile picture of the author Eddie Spangler
                Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

                Jason, like myself, is more about high probability than beating someone over the head till they convert. It's much easier to just find someone who WANTS to be converted. If it dont come easy, let it go. Life is too short to spend jumping through peoples hoops.
                Thats a good point if dealing with smaller deals BUT are there really that many people who can commit to 10k at one time deals to just take the laydowns?

                I really want to know, as I do no have experience at that level.
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                • Profile picture of the author John Durham
                  Originally Posted by Eddie Spangler View Post

                  Thats a good point if dealing with smaller deals BUT are there really that many people who can commit to 10k at one time deals to just take the laydowns?

                  I really want to know, as I do no have experience at that level.
                  Well, I can tell you from the liquidation brokering industry that yes there are alot of people who can commit even $100k. THOUSANDS of them, but I can also tell you from the very same industry, that if you spend too much time with tire kickers you miss them. Once a tire kicker shows you his true colors, believe him the first time and move on to another prospect, unless you just have a strong gut instinct about it.

                  If you set a precedent that its acceptable for them to make you jump through hoops, it will be hard to turn that around...and you tend to spin your wheels alot with few exceptions, in my experience only. Take it with a grain of salt.

                  Ps. Eddie, look up even a single NICHE of manufacturing companies, with manufacrturing plants on manta, there are hundreds of thousands of them, and most of them have big money to spend... now think: There are a thousand more niches.

                  Every product you see in Walmart has a multi million dollar company behind it to even have their products in Walmart. In fact; the Walmart order in and of itself puts them in the multi million dollar category, because they dont generally buy anything less than millions of units at a time.

                  Now, just think, there are thousands upon thousands of brand names in every Walmart store. Thats only one example. The world is HUGE.

                  Yeah, there are alot of people with big money to spend.

                  If you cant get to a decision maker in 9 out of ten companies...big deal, there are THOUSANDS of them...maybe HUNDREDS of thousands of million dollar companies, if you target them specifically, no need to get hung up on one.

                  With Big Bees finesse there is no reason to jump through anybodies hoop... There are alot of multi million dollar guys that will listen to him, if he keeps rolling, and doesnt get hung up on people who dont "get it".

                  -John
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                • Profile picture of the author TheBigBee
                  Originally Posted by Eddie Spangler View Post

                  Thats a good point if dealing with smaller deals BUT are there really that many people who can commit to 10k at one time deals to just take the laydowns?

                  I really want to know, as I do no have experience at that level.
                  Eddie

                  Video alone is $3k. People understand its a must for conversions. Up selling page optimization to make the expense of the vid worth it, plus my other proprietary trinket rounds out the trifecta to a base $6k.

                  I've been using a combo of advice from Jason and John in marketing this package.
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                • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
                  Originally Posted by Eddie Spangler View Post

                  Thats a good point if dealing with smaller deals BUT are there really that many people who can commit to 10k at one time deals to just take the laydowns?

                  Not for nothing.... but the fact that they have $10K liquid capital to
                  invest in a marketing campaign doesn't make them laydowns... quite
                  the opposite in my experience.
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                  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
                    Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

                    Not for nothing.... but the fact that they have $10K liquid capital to
                    invest in a marketing campaign doesn't make them laydowns... quite
                    the opposite in my experience.
                    I dont think we are talking about "laydowns" necessarily, just about moving on to a different prospect if you see that a guy is a tire kicker who is wasting your time and energy, or wants you to jump through too many hoops.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
                    Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

                    Not for nothing.... but the fact that they have $10K liquid capital to
                    invest in a marketing campaign doesn't make them laydowns... quite
                    the opposite in my experience.
                    Why wouldn't you want to qualify IMMEDIATELY for your budget?

                    And make sure you're talking only to those people who can afford and actually implement your program?

                    Would you rather waste time talking to people who cannot afford your offering, because they're easy to talk to??


                    Money is not an indicator of intelligence, business acumen, mental toughness, thoroughness as a personality trait, or anything else other than this prospect has money at this time.

                    The rest you have to discover as you go. So they're not a laydown. So what? At least there is the possibility that they can implement your package. Those who don't have the budget have a 0% chance of conversion.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kim Phoenix
    TheBigBee, you said it already....your time has got to be worth something.

    Before owning my online business, I had a small home-based business, creating
    items. Many people would try to talk me down in prices, but I learned very quickly
    that my time IS worth something. I would refuse to cut down my prices, knowing that
    I could work less for more, because no one else could do what I was offering. A few
    decided not to purchase from me, but many just knew there was no negotiation; those were
    my prices.

    That's not to say that I never negotiated larger projects, but I knew what I could live with, and what I couldn't.
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    Originally Posted by TheBigBee View Post

    I'm used to getting commission checks, paychecks, or exchanging cash for goods... This consulting stuff (negotiating contracts) is brand new to me. The first couple of deals were exciting, but it seems like my strategy of submitting nose bleed bids with the expectation that the prospective client will negotiate it down is becoming a negative value prop...
    Likely. Try offering your firm price in your future presentations and see how that goes in
    comparison to submitting nose bleed bids. I know some people like to feel they "won" the
    negotiation and some cultures are cultures of negotiation ( which is something to keep in mind if
    the owner is from such a culture) but, personally, I don't care about bragging about
    how I bid someone down from, say 10K to 6K - especially if I know 6K was the real price anyway. I
    do my research and pay what I am willing to pay and move on if I don't like the offer.


    Do a smaller portion of your offer if your gut tells you it will benefit the client and you and actually
    be the start of a great relationship. However, as JD said, never get hung up on one prospect.

    Dan
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    "If you think you're the smartest person in the room, then you're probably in the wrong room."

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  • Profile picture of the author donaldhamilton
    Lot's of food for thought here! Not sure how you find and qualify your clients, but probably worth checking that they are spending money on marketing (or whatever) already - it is much easier to get them to reallocate existing budget, when you show value (yellow pages to online is the classic example). Once your in, ask what their budget is, ask how they measure their return on investment - you want to know that they have money and know that you can show value through metrics. when it comes to price, start with the highest "fair" price that you can justify objectively - if you can show that your price is fair, by reference to some external standard (eg market average) it is a much easier sell than picking a big arbitrary number. If they try to take a drop now, with the promise of more later, ask them to tell you what they will commit to in the future, and bind them into it. finally think about what they (and you) will do, if you don't close the deal with them - this can be a real source of power: if you can walk to a next client who will pay you, and they will bleed customers if they do nothing, then you have the power, however much they may bluster. Hope this helps!
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