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How would you go about selling an idea or a dream to major skeptics?

by Neodism
33 replies
At my current job although I am not dubbed a salesman, I still have to sell. (We all have to sell every day. Regardless of if you are in sales!) I have to sell new recruits on the opportunity. But this is very hard for me to do.

I have to bring sales people in for orientation and explain to them that the job is commission based. Now, we do have a guarantee that if you meet the full time standards you will make the $2,100 that we promise. If you meet the requirements but haven't made that much, we pay out the difference. But the problem is getting them to believe that sales will happen.

I find that people are huge skeptics. Most all of them. I get a better response from my recruiting ads when I put $1,200-$2,100/month than when I just put $2,100/mo. I guess people don't think they're worth $2,100. People don't seem to think that it would be realistic for them to make $2,100 in a month when they have only ever made $800-$1,200 working fast food or retail.

Also, people are so scared of sales. We have a fantastic product that sells itself if you do the demo correctly, and even though we take the weight of being a salesperson off of the recruits by leaving the sale up to the team leader (the new recruits do nothing but the demo), 90% of them always disappear after day one or two of training. When I do hear from people about why they didn't return it is usually that they got another job at a gas station or somewhere that pays crappy wages. I give people the opportunity to make a lives for themselves but they choose $7.25/hr over the opportunity to not struggle all of their lives. WHAT THE HELL.

So my job is commission based, as well. I get paid off of the first three sales of my recruits. When (like yesterday) the four people who I was supposed to be training ALL bail out on orientation, that means I make $0 this week. Even when I do bring in eight or so people, by the first day that they would be going out in the field, I only have two or so left.

What I have concluded is that this is my failure to sell. If I sold them on the opportunity then they wouldn't bail. But, selling an idea has proven to be harder for me than selling a product. At least when I'm in the field selling a Kirby I am able to show the customer how effective it is and help them justify the price. When I'm recruiting people, all I have is my word. I can tell them all day long that Alex Trejo made $1800 this week selling Kirbys and that within a year they could be a Distributor and make the big bucks, but just like if I tried to sell someone on a Kirby without having the Kirby there, only using my words, it would most likely never work.

How would you go about selling the Kirby opportunity? Keep in mind, I live in a small college town of 17,000. There are no people in this town looking for a sales job so I have to candy coat their position as "Customer Service" to get them in the initial interview. The only people that I get to come in are people who have never had anything nice, never made more than eight or so dollars an hour and may dream of more but don't see it being realistic. This is what I find, at least. Have you any advice on selling these people on a real opportunity and real money?
#dream #idea #major #selling #skeptics
  • Profile picture of the author vndnbrgj
    I was going to sell Kirby's.
    Went on my first 3 practice demos. Didn't get any sales, wasn't planning on it anywmay, but got referrals. My referrals went to someone else, so they sold the Kirby and not me, to people that were expecting me. That's why I bailed.
    I think the problem with the "opportunity" is a few things...
    1. People don't want to bother their friends and family
    2. People don't want to knock doors... a lot like cold calling around here
    3. The price is a sticker shock. You have to make your recruits realize the value.

    I don't know how your office runs, but around here the offices have a bad name.
    Not the Kirby, but the offices that sell them.

    Also, your initial ad maybe misleading.
    Around here they post ads for a job shampooing carpets or cleaning carpets.
    That's not the job, that's just part of the demo.
    Have you tested against ads that say, looking for some serious sales reps to sell some Kirby's?
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by vndnbrgj View Post

      Have you tested against ads that say, looking for some serious sales reps to sell some Kirby's?
      Tried that with a different well known brand. It doesn't work at all.

      Larches;

      Here is an idea that will make you sales, and your distributor will love it.

      Guarantee the new recruit 3 sales (since that's all you make money on).
      You simply send an experienced rep with the new guys on as many appointments as it takes to get three sales. You pay the recruit their regular commission. And the experienced rep (or distributor, if it's a small office) gets the difference between their pay and the recruit's commission.

      The recruit is trained on prospecting and they feed the office their appointments. I did this for a few years selling vacuums and it completely takes the risk out of selling. Also, the new guy gets to see sales.

      Sell the idea to the distributor.

      Do you sell as well? Having a non salesperson do the recruiting and training is a huge mistake I see all the time.

      When I recruited (for a different distributor, I seldom used this guarantee idea) I would say "If you put on 20 (or whatever the figure was) presentations in a month we guarantee you $1,500. But we have never paid that out, and we never will. Why? Because everyone either makes more than that their first month, or quits before the month is up"

      Personally, I think the guarantee is wrong. That's why I wanted to destroy the idea right away. I wanted them to feel like the sales would happen because we would work with them very closely, which we did.


      By the way. You are selling the position. You need to make it sound like some coveted position that people are competing for. And you need to make selling on commission the preferred way to get paid.
      Partners get commission, the owner gets commission, all business owners are paid on commission. The recruit's last boss was on commission. That's how it's sold.

      The poor are paid an hourly rate. And that's what keeps them poor. Sell that.
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  • Profile picture of the author shane_k
    Originally Posted by Larches View Post


    How would you go about selling the Kirby opportunity? Keep in mind, I live in a small college town of 17,000. There are no people in this town looking for a sales job so I have to candy coat their position as "Customer Service" to get them in the initial interview.

    This is your problem right here.

    By candy coating your ad, you are getting leads who are not qualified for and/or who are more than likely not interested in a sales job.

    So you are getting bad leads right from the start.

    I can tell you that for me as an actual Sales Person I would never apply to a Customer Service job ad. Why? Because I don't want to do customer service, I want to sell.

    And I can tell you that most people who apply to a customer service job want to do customer service, not sales.

    This is just like someone who applies to a marketing job ad wants to do something with marketing and does not expect to arrive and find out the job is something completely different.

    So "candy coating" the job ad is creating your problem.

    Why not just be straight up? Then you would get more qualified leads, people who are actually interested in what you are offering.

    I remember this "job ad" that I appplied to about two years ago, and they called me in for an interview, which actually turned out to be a sales pitch for a MLM company.

    Well, I bailed part way through their presentation. Why? because they pissed me off, by misleading me in their job ad, and wasted my time by having me go all the way down there for something that wasn't even remotely close to what I was interested in or pursuing at that time.

    My advice, would be for you to be straight up in your job ad. Tell people it is a sales job and commission only.

    You can even test this, keep your original ad going and put up the straight forward ad, and see what gets you better leads
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    • Profile picture of the author Neodism
      Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post


      Larches;

      Here is an idea that will make you sales, and your distributor will love it.

      Guarantee the new recruit 3 sales (since that's all you make money on).
      You simply send an experienced rep with the new guys on as many appointments as it takes to get three sales. You pay the recruit their regular commission. And the experienced rep (or distributor, if it's a small office) gets the difference between their pay and the recruit's commission.

      The recruit is trained on prospecting and they feed the office their appointments. I did this for a few years selling vacuums and it completely takes the risk out of selling. Also, the new guy gets to see sales.

      Sell the idea to the distributor.

      Do you sell as well? Having a non salesperson do the recruiting and training is a huge mistake I see all the time.

      When I recruited (for a different distributor, I seldom used this guarantee idea) I would say "If you put on 20 (or whatever the figure was) presentations in a month we guarantee you $1,500. But we have never paid that out, and we never will. Why? Because everyone either makes more than that their first month, or quits before the month is up"

      Personally, I think the guarantee is wrong. That's why I wanted to destroy the idea right away. I wanted them to feel like the sales would happen because we would work with them very closely, which we did.


      By the way. You are selling the position. You need to make it sound like some coveted position that people are competing for. And you need to make selling on commission the preferred way to get paid.
      Partners get commission, the owner gets commission, all business owners are paid on commission. The recruit's last boss was on commission. That's how it's sold.

      The poor are paid an hourly rate. And that's what keeps them poor. Sell that.
      Could you help me understand your idea for taking the risk out of selling? I'm not sure how your distributorship worked when you were in the business, but ours works like this:

      We go out as a team that consists of a team leader, several dealers and a canvasser or two to knock doors. The canvassers knock the dealers in, the dealers do the demos and the team leaders aid in closing deals.

      I was not a dealer too awfully long before I became DPS in Training. But I did very well at my demos and had a high closing ratio.

      Our guarantee is 60 demos in a month and $2,100. I can see what you're getting at with your statement about the guarantee, but I feel like the guarantee is one of the few things that entices recruits to work. They won't believe in the system and the Kirby selling itself until they start seeing it happen. Even when I do a demo for the recruits they are amazed by it, but no-one ever believes people buy them for such an outrageous price.

      I like the word that you've worded your selling of working commission. Thanks a million!

      Originally Posted by shane_k View Post

      This is your problem right here.

      By candy coating your ad, you are getting leads who are not qualified for and/or who are more than likely not interested in a sales job.

      So you are getting bad leads right from the start.

      I can tell you that for me as an actual Sales Person I would never apply to a Customer Service job ad. Why? Because I don't want to do customer service, I want to sell.

      And I can tell you that most people who apply to a customer service job want to do customer service, not sales.

      This is just like someone who applies to a marketing job ad wants to do something with marketing and does not expect to arrive and find out the job is something completely different.

      So "candy coating" the job ad is creating your problem.

      Why not just be straight up? Then you would get more qualified leads, people who are actually interested in what you are offering.

      I remember this "job ad" that I appplied to about two years ago, and they called me in for an interview, which actually turned out to be a sales pitch for a MLM company.

      Well, I bailed part way through their presentation. Why? because they pissed me off, by misleading me in their job ad, and wasted my time by having me go all the way down there for something that wasn't even remotely close to what I was interested in or pursuing at that time.

      My advice, would be for you to be straight up in your job ad. Tell people it is a sales job and commission only.

      You can even test this, keep your original ad going and put up the straight forward ad, and see what gets you better leads
      In my town there are no people that I've ever met that are interested in working in sales. This isn't a city. This is a po-dump, redneck college town. We bring people in to do demos, not close deals. But, if we get them to stay after a couple days or a week, we start easing them into closing deals.

      We create sales people from those who never wanted or saw themselves in sales.

      Damn good idea about running both ads at once, though. I appreciate your input.
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      • Profile picture of the author Neodism
        Originally Posted by misterme View Post

        So you're saying you basically are attracting people who are put off about doing sales and prefer a comfort zone of a small but guaranteed paycheck doing "customer service"? Then you expose these same people to going out on sales, they see it's about demoing vacuum cleaners, going door to door (?), working on commission - and they bail. Is that right?
        I tell them in the interview exactly what it is. Before they are ever even offered the position.

        Originally Posted by Victor Edson View Post

        Hmm.. that's difficult, only because your commissions are based
        on a turn & burn mentality so you're only paid if NEW people are
        there, not if good sales people come on board.

        While we'd all love to say, recruit sales people and you'll have better
        quality sales people, the fact is that your commissions would suffer,
        so it puts you in a difficult situation. Ideally you want new people
        all the time and after 3 sales they quit so you need another, lol.

        In which case I would recommend something like Claude said
        and guarantee a certain amount of sales if they meet a certain quota
        or achieve certain goals.

        Another idea thing you can do to keep people around longer is this;
        take them to the side and let them know they've got potential to
        do really well and you're going to personally help them.

        This way, they'll think you have more of a vested interest in them and
        your personal connection will be much stronger than if they were to
        just be another 1 of 3 who started this week.

        You gotta boost some confidence it sounds like.
        Exactly. It's my job to have a constant flow of people. My job relies on turnovers, but I just wish I could get them past three sales before they left.

        Originally Posted by RRG View Post

        I'm sure I've said this in other threads:

        Being in the convincing game . . . sucks. It's nearly impossible to convince someone who doesn't want what you have.

        The idea is to find people who WANT the opportunity to have an uncapped income, who like talking to people, who like telling stories, who like demonstrating things, who like the "thrill of the kill."

        Disclaimer: I tried this (Kirby) for three days when I was in my early 20s. I absolutely hated it. One reason was the misleading carrot of the guarantee: turns out you had to complete 57 verified demos per week to get the lousy base.
        Yeah, a lot of Kirby distributors have a very bad rap for screwing people over. Luckily, I'm on board with one that used to be bad but has straightened up quite a bit.

        Originally Posted by Eddie Spangler View Post

        I dont understand how a guy who is basically scared of sales himself is going to try and pitch/train others who are even more afraid. This is one of the roughest sales gigs that I can think of.

        They dont believe you because they dont feel you and they know you are just pitching them rather than coming from a place of "I did this and this is how I made it." Yes I give you credit for making a few sales but we both know it wasnt that many and you have only been at it a short time.

        Having read many of your posts over the last 2 years You dont strike me as the kind of guy to instill confidence in others.

        This is on top of the deceptive nature of the ad.
        You are also buying into your own press when you make comments like this

        I give people the opportunity to make lives for themselves but they choose $7.25/hr over the opportunity to not struggle all of their lives. WHAT THE HELL.

        Gimme a break you are a lowly shill for the man and pushing their propaganda for a meal and a blanket.
        The good news is that you are still young and are gaining another life experience.

        I probably would have failed at Kirby when I was "hired" in college but I listened to other people and quit before even starting and missed out on a great chance to learn sales.
        Do you know how to overcome your fears? By facing them. Sales scared the hell out of me for the longest time. Then I got deceived into coming to Kirby school and being put in sales situations. Am I afraid of sales now? Not at all. Am I an expert salesman now? Not at all. Am I pissed for being tricked into this? **** no.

        My fear always stemmed from my confidence. (Or the lack thereof.) I was always trying to sell MY services by MYSELF. Working FOR someone else and WITH a team is the best way to go to break the ice.

        I almost went to work for a fast food joint before I came to this job. Luckily, I was smart enough to see opportunity and motivated enough to take it. I took a risk and now I am in love with my job, make enough money to be comfortable (with my guaranteed base pay), learn something new every day and have the chance to go even farther. You're very well mistaken if for some odd reason you don't believe in the opportunity that I have and that I give to people. There is a lot of money in this business. I've brought people in who have been here for only a couple weeks and make a shit ton of money. I've also brought in people who were not willing to learn or work hard who make pocket change.
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  • Profile picture of the author misterme
    Originally Posted by Larches View Post

    I find that people are huge skeptics. Most all of them. I get a better response from my recruiting ads when I put $1,200-$2,100/month than when I just put $2,100/mo. I guess people don't think they're worth $2,100...

    Also, people are so scared of sales...

    What I have concluded is that this is my failure to sell...

    I have to candy coat their position as "Customer Service" to get them in the initial interview. The only people that I get to come in are people who have never had anything nice, never made more than eight or so dollars an hour and may dream of more but don't see it being realistic.
    So you're saying you basically are attracting people who are put off about doing sales and prefer a comfort zone of a small but guaranteed paycheck doing "customer service"? Then you expose these same people to going out on sales, they see it's about demoing vacuum cleaners, going door to door (?), working on commission - and they bail. Is that right?
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  • Profile picture of the author Victor Edson
    Hmm.. that's difficult, only because your commissions are based
    on a turn & burn mentality so you're only paid if NEW people are
    there, not if good sales people come on board.

    While we'd all love to say, recruit sales people and you'll have better
    quality sales people, the fact is that your commissions would suffer,
    so it puts you in a difficult situation. Ideally you want new people
    all the time and after 3 sales they quit so you need another, lol.

    In which case I would recommend something like Claude said
    and guarantee a certain amount of sales if they meet a certain quota
    or achieve certain goals.

    Another idea thing you can do to keep people around longer is this;
    take them to the side and let them know they've got potential to
    do really well and you're going to personally help them.

    This way, they'll think you have more of a vested interest in them and
    your personal connection will be much stronger than if they were to
    just be another 1 of 3 who started this week.

    You gotta boost some confidence it sounds like.
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  • Profile picture of the author RRG
    I'm sure I've said this in other threads:

    Being in the convincing game . . . sucks. It's nearly impossible to convince someone who doesn't want what you have.

    The idea is to find people who WANT the opportunity to have an uncapped income, who like talking to people, who like telling stories, who like demonstrating things, who like the "thrill of the kill."

    Disclaimer: I tried this (Kirby) for three days when I was in my early 20s. I absolutely hated it. One reason was the misleading carrot of the guarantee: turns out you had to complete 57 verified demos per week to get the lousy base.
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  • Profile picture of the author Eddie Spangler
    I dont understand how a guy who is basically scared of sales himself is going to try and pitch/train others who are even more afraid. This is one of the roughest sales gigs that I can think of.

    They dont believe you because they dont feel you and they know you are just pitching them rather than coming from a place of "I did this and this is how I made it." Yes I give you credit for making a few sales but we both know it wasnt that many and you have only been at it a short time.

    Having read many of your posts over the last 2 years You dont strike me as the kind of guy to instill confidence in others.

    This is on top of the deceptive nature of the ad.
    You are also buying into your own press when you make comments like this

    I give people the opportunity to make a lives for themselves but they choose $7.25/hr over the opportunity to not struggle all of their lives. WHAT THE HELL.

    Gimme a break you are a lowly shill for the man and pushing their propaganda for a meal and a blanket.
    The good news is that you are still young and are gaining another life experience.

    I probably would have failed at Kirby when I was "hired" in college but I listened to other people and quit before even starting and missed out on a great chance to learn sales.
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  • Profile picture of the author Eddie Spangler
    Go get them Larches.
    Looks like you have blended in real well with the Kirby cult and are doing a good job mimicking Kirby speak.

    Glad its working out for you, its not always about money but also about the work environment. Maybe you can stress that in your speeches.

    By the way what is the commission range for selling a vacuum cleaner?
    How much is shitloads of money that you described a couple of people making in your previous post?
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by Eddie Spangler View Post

      Go get them Larches.
      Looks like you have blended in real well with the Kirby cult and are doing a good job mimicking Kirby speak.

      Glad its working out for you, its not always about money but also about the work environment. Maybe you can stress that in your speeches.

      By the way what is the commission range for selling a vacuum cleaner?
      How much is shitloads of money that you described a couple of people making in your previous post?
      lol.

      Love Eddie's posts. Nice to see Warriors put their balls out there. Too many pro's are too diplomatic in my opinion and play it too safe with their answers. Cant stand to read "man pleaser" posts. Where is the passion?

      Eddie, Im working on a MONSTER sale right now man! It aint no website though!
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    • Profile picture of the author Neodism
      Originally Posted by Eddie Spangler View Post

      Go get them Larches.
      Looks like you have blended in real well with the Kirby cult and are doing a good job mimicking Kirby speak.

      Glad its working out for you, its not always about money but also about the work environment. Maybe you can stress that in your speeches.

      By the way what is the commission range for selling a vacuum cleaner?
      How much is shitloads of money that you described a couple of people making in your previous post?
      Well, what would you consider to be a shitload of money? One thing I have learned in sales is not to confuse your values with those of others. Go pick on someone else.
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  • Profile picture of the author Eddie Spangler
    Im not picking on you Larches, really wanted an answer to the questions.

    Im trying to help you sell this thing, just need to get a better understand of everyone's mindset.

    But to answer your question given what you have already stated about this town like
    The only people that I get to come in are people who have never had anything nice, never made more than eight or so dollars an hour and may dream of more but don't see it being realistic.

    Then in that case I call 1k a week shitloads of money.

    Dont be so sensitive, just answer my questions.

    I already gave you one good tip but you werent hearing it while in defensive mode.
    Youve been pushing how much they can make and except for these 2 people who are making shitloads everyone else is failing. Maybe they are not all money motivated but could be "join our cult" motivated. Get it?
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  • Profile picture of the author ronrule
    I cant imagine very many people willing to devote their full time for only $2100 per month. The reason you aren't getting anyone is because you're telling them the MOST they can make is barely $25,000 a year, and there is a possibility they will only make half that? Why would they bother?
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    • Profile picture of the author Neodism
      Originally Posted by Eddie Spangler View Post

      Im not picking on you Larches, really wanted an answer to the questions.

      Im trying to help you sell this thing, just need to get a better understand of everyone's mindset.

      But to answer you questing given what you have already stated about this town like
      The only people that I get to come in are people who have never had anything nice, never made more than eight or so dollars an hour and may dream of more but don't see it being realistic.

      Then in that case I call 1k a week shitloads of money.

      Dont be so sensitive, just answer my questions.

      I already gave you one good tip but you werent hearing it while in defensive mode.
      Youve been pushing how much they can make and except for these 2 people who are making shitloads everyone else is failing. Maybe they are not all money motivated but could be "join our cult" motivated. Get it?
      One Kirby rockstar I brought in will have a $1,400-$1,800 paycheck this coming Wednesday. I've looked at his sheets and done the math on it, but there are too many variables to pinpoint it exactly. My other two guys are looking at about $900 next Wednesday.

      We only have 8 people, aside from myself. (And I'm DPS so I only deal on the weekends if I feel like it.) Only 5 of those 8 are dealers. The other three dealers are looking at checks around $300. Our canvassers (door knockers) are making about $200-$250.

      But the flexibility and fun of the job makes it great. All the people that work here are super fun to be around and positive. You get to choose your own days to work and it's always a blast.



      Originally Posted by ronrule View Post

      I cant imagine very many people willing to devote their full time for only $2100 per month. The reason you aren't getting anyone is because you're telling them the MOST they can make is barely $25,000 a year, and there is a possibility they will only make half that? Why would they bother?
      I've never made more than $500 in a week from any job except for select weeks here that I did well. When I was the Marketing Director at a local drug rehab I only made $2,000 a month, salaried. People here don't make that kind of money. Maybe the elder crowd that are established. Even hard working people that weld,work on ranches, etc... They only make chump change.

      90% of jobs in this town are minimum wage. There's no opportunity for a career here in Stephenville.

      Honestly, Ron. I was skeptical when I came in, as is everyone else. But those who stay past training or past a week end up doing well. The Kirby sells itself. We target medium income neighborhoods to set up demos. These people like quality, cleanliness, and to save money. Low income can't afford it and high income usually have cleaning services that do their work. The sales happen if you do the demo right and build enough interest and value in the Kirby. The best part of the demo is when we get out their vacuum and kill it with the Kirby. Not even a Dyson or a Rainbow stands up to the Kirby. It really does sell itself. The only hassle we have is negotiating price.

      Conclusion being, if people do the demos they make the money.
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      • Profile picture of the author ronrule
        Originally Posted by Larches View Post

        I've never made more than $500 in a week from any job except for select weeks here that I did well. When I was the Marketing Director at a local drug rehab I only made $2,000 a month, salaried. People here don't make that kind of money. Maybe the elder crowd that are established. Even hard working people that weld,work on ranches, etc... They only make chump change.

        90% of jobs in this town are minimum wage. There's no opportunity for a career here in Stephenville.
        Maybe that's the problem though... expectations are set very low in an economically depressed area, that's not a combination that makes people jump out of bed and say "Yes, I can sell that" - it makes them say "Who the heck is going to pay $X for a vacuum cleaner in this town and why do I want to beat myself up trying for $2k a month when I can make that working anywhere else?"
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        • Profile picture of the author Neodism
          Originally Posted by ronrule View Post

          Maybe that's the problem though... expectations are set very low in an economically depressed area, that's not a combination that makes people jump out of bed and say "Yes, I can sell that" - it makes them say "Who the heck is going to pay for a vacuum cleaner in this town and why do I want to beat myself up trying for $2k a month when I can make that working anywhere else?"
          In my orientation I have three objectives:
          1. Sell them on the company.
          2. Sell them on the product.
          3. Sell them on the job/pay.

          The company is easy to sell.

          The product is easy, as well. I do a demo for them just like I was in a home. Even though they can't afford one, they realize that it is a product that is bought up by our prospects. Also, for the most part we travel to wealthy areas to sell our product. My recruits know all of this and by the end of the demo they are always excited because they know it sells itself.

          It's unrealistic that these people could find another $2,100/month job in this town. Which also makes selling the job/pay harder for me because they already think it is unrealistic, then you add the commission based pay in to the equation and people head for the hills. The reality of it is that it's possible to make $2,100 and more here with our company.
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          • Profile picture of the author andrewkar
            How would you go about selling an idea or a dream to major skeptics?

            I would go and test the idea to make some proof that it actually works in real life. Before.
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          • Profile picture of the author Eddie Spangler
            Originally Posted by Larches View Post

            In my orientation I have three objectives:
            1. Sell them on the company.
            2. Sell them on the product.
            3. Sell them on the job/pay.

            The company is easy to sell.

            The product is easy, as well. I do a demo for them just like I was in a home. Even though they can't afford one, they realize that it is a product that is bought up by our prospects. Also, for the most part we travel to wealthy areas to sell our product. My recruits know all of this and by the end of the demo they are always excited because they know it sells itself.

            It's unrealistic that these people could find another $2,100/month job in this town. Which also makes selling the job/pay harder for me because they already think it is unrealistic, then you add the commission based pay in to the equation and people head for the hills. The reality of it is that it's possible to make $2,100 and more here with our company.
            You do realize that your post does not make sense. How can ALL bolded parts be true?

            Do your rockstar vacuum guys do a little spiel about how well they have done in front of the recruits?

            What do the higher ups in the cult say about your problem?
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            • Profile picture of the author Neodism
              Originally Posted by andrewkar View Post

              How would you go about selling an idea or a dream to major skeptics?

              I would go and test the idea to make some proof that it actually works in real life. Before.
              It has worked for 99 years. It worked for me and it works for my co-workers.

              Originally Posted by Eddie Spangler View Post

              You do realize that your post does not make sense. How can ALL bolded parts be true?

              Do your rockstar vacuum guys do a little spiel about how well they have done in front of the recruits?

              What do the higher ups in the cult say about your problem?
              There's no conflict in my statements.

              They get excited about the product. They see its value. They just get very intimidated by the fact that if you pulled off 0 sales in a month and didn't complete your 60 demos you would get $0.

              Once again, selling the product and company is easy, selling the job and pay is not. It's the risk that I find them to be afraid of. The risk combined with the value they hold in themselves.

              When you have no college degree, no experience in anything but retail, hard labor or hospitality, no real direction in life, and someone tells you that you can make twice as much as you ever have (at least twice) and have no real income cap, and be your own boss (as we're all independent contractors) doesn't it seem too good to be true?

              I don't know where most of you guys came from. Maybe I understand the common man better than you guys who have never had a job pay you less than $2,000 a month because I have been that guy. Maybe I'm a dumbass. Who knows.


              I don't let my dealers talk to my new recruits. They get way too far ahead of them, confuse them and talk about things I don't want discussed until they feel comfortable with the job.

              The distributor says such a high turnover is expected. That doesn't make me happy with it though. I want to improve on it.



              I'm done with this thread. I'll just get in touch with other DPSs for help.
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          • Profile picture of the author ronrule
            Originally Posted by Larches View Post

            In my orientation I have three objectives:
            1. Sell them on the company.
            2. Sell them on the product.
            3. Sell them on the job/pay.

            The company is easy to sell.

            The product is easy, as well. I do a demo for them just like I was in a home. Even though they can't afford one, they realize that it is a product that is bought up by our prospects. Also, for the most part we travel to wealthy areas to sell our product. My recruits know all of this and by the end of the demo they are always excited because they know it sells itself.

            It's unrealistic that these people could find another $2,100/month job in this town. Which also makes selling the job/pay harder for me because they already think it is unrealistic, then you add the commission based pay in to the equation and people head for the hills. The reality of it is that it's possible to make $2,100 and more here with our company.
            I'm not really sure what you're asking for then, man ... you've pushed back on everyone's answers and made excuses why their suggestions won't work.

            You came in here asking how would you go about selling an opportunity and got some valuable advice, yet you seem intent on simply maintaining the status quo (or at least the status quo as you see it).

            You aren't "selling a dream to skeptics" - you're selling mediocrity. You've created a mental barrier that your offer is on par with, or better than "everything else available in town" and can't wrap your head around why no one wants it... yet you won't consider the reality that it's not a good offer.

            If it was a good offer you wouldn't have ANY problem finding people and wouldn't have to pretend it's a different job to get them in the door.

            I think you really need to re-evaluate what your goals are. This mental barrier you've created that you're "selling the dream" offering someone minimum wage to $25k a year is where the problem lies... $2,100 isn't anything to get excited about, I don't care what town you live in. Most good sales people wouldn't even take a pre-commission base that low.
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            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by ronrule View Post

              This mental barrier you've created that you're "selling the dream" offering someone minimum wage to $25k a year is where the problem lies... $2,100 isn't anything to get excited about, I don't care what town you live in. Most good sales people wouldn't even take a pre-commission base that low.
              To be fair, for the second time..the $2,100 was a minimum, not the most the new person would make. It was the floor, not the ceiling.

              But he's moved on, this wasn't the forum for him.
              The sad thing is that he won't learn anything.
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              • Profile picture of the author ronrule
                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                To be fair, for the second time..the $2,100 was a minimum, not the most the new person would make. It was the floor, not the ceiling.

                But he's moved on, this wasn't the forum for him.
                The sad thing is that he won't learn anything.
                Why do you think he said it's a minimum? In his initial post he said his ads ran at $1,200 - $2,100 and they "could get to" $2,100 if they "met the full time requirement", plus the fact that he kept insisting $2,100 is "good money" and more than anyone in town was making, that tells me $2,100 was his maximum, not a minimum.

                From the sound of things he has more of a communication problem than a product one. They go in thinking it's a customer service job, then find out it's a $1,200 - $2,100 job, then he says $2,100 is the minimum, and wonders why no one wants to stick around?
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                • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                  Originally Posted by ronrule View Post

                  Why do you think he said it's a minimum? In his initial post he said his ads ran at $1,200 - $2,100 and they "could get to" $2,100 if they "met the full time requirement", plus the fact that he kept insisting $2,100 is "good money" and more than anyone in town was making, that tells me $2,100 was his maximum, not a minimum.

                  From the sound of things he has more of a communication problem than a product one. They go in thinking it's a customer service job, then find out it's a $1,200 - $2,100 job, then he says $2,100 is the minimum, and wonders why no one wants to stick around?
                  He said "I have to bring sales people in for orientation and explain to them that the job is commission based. Now, we do have a guarantee that if you meet the full time standards you will make the $2,100 that we promise. "

                  and

                  "I get a better response from my recruiting ads when I put $1,200-$2,100/month than when I just put $2,100/mo."

                  and

                  "Our guarantee is 60 demos in a month and $2,100. "

                  With Kirby, you get shown a minimum guarantee based on number of presentations. They always make the requirements high enough that nobody ever gets the guarantee, without selling. It's virtually impossible to got 60 presentations without a sale...but I've had guys try...yech.

                  Also, 60 presentations in a month is nearly impossible. I've never done it, even working at top speed all day for a month. I've met one person who did more than 60 demonstration in a month. She has three full time people just booking her appointments. She's wealthy....selling vacuum cleaners in people's homes.

                  There is no fall-back guarantee (like "If you only put on 20 presentations, you get a minimum of $800") And this isn't a wage, there is only a minimum guarantee....that nobody ever gets paid...in the history of sales.

                  He found that more people "believe" $1,200 than $2,000. You have to understand that these aren't college students. people who answer these ads are generally at the end of their rope. Every office I ever visited (offices selling vacuums in people's homes), the owner had a Cadillac (or some other higher end car), and the reps all had old beaters...or borrowed their parents car.

                  Th reason they don't run a salesperson job, is that almost nobody would answer the ad.

                  The chronic unemployed are who go to these interviews. And they are who will answer the next ad like this. Sorry, but them's the facts. And I guess to them $2,000 a month to start out sounds good.

                  I've been in that business for decades. Trust me, it isn't for the faint of heart.
                  And I'm still trying to wash out some of the scuzzy factor.

                  I've known hundreds of vacuum distributors over the years. I've met two that I would trust at all. It's a game of sharks eating minnows...and most of the people doing it are minnows.

                  Anyway, the kid was trying to get help, we are the wrong crowd for that business, and he left learning nothing.


                  Claude "Killer of Threads" Whitacre
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by ronrule View Post

      I cant imagine very many people willing to devote their full time for only $2100 per month. The reason you aren't getting anyone is because you're telling them the MOST they can make is barely $25,000 a year, and there is a possibility they will only make half that? Why would they bother?
      The guarantee isn't a maximum, it's a minimum.

      But it's a minimum based on an Olympic level of activity.

      In all my years selling in people's homes, and out of the hundreds of vacuum distributors I've talked to...I've never known one to pay the guarantee.

      Most salespeople quit way before the end of the month. The remaining ones don't fulfill the requirements, And a few make more than the guarantee and stay.
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  • Profile picture of the author socialentry
    the only reason why I would want to do a sales job on these terms is if I can get filthy rich or I know I can get the best training in town (to do my own thing later down the road).
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

      the only reason why I would want to do a sales job on these terms is if I can get filthy rich or I know I can get the best training in town (to do my own thing later down the road).
      And those were the guys that I recruited that made real money.
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  • Profile picture of the author bob ross
    I have a high turnaround on my salespeople for my B&M biz, where I'm hiring direct sellers, canvassers, and telemarketers.

    One of my best headlines to grab the type of people I'm looking for is:

    SPORTS MINDED INDIVIDUALS
    Earn X amount plus bonuses, part-time or full-time available, flexible scheduling.
    Call Jim at xxx.xxx.xxxx
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      When I was the Ohio State Distributor for Thermax (a vacuum cleaner), I had a white board that took up almost the entire wall. It had the rep's names, how many presentations (by day), how many sales, how many referrals, and then weekly totals.

      Every new person was shown this. It was impressive. I never promised that they would make X amount for so many presentations...even with no sales.

      I said "If you are average, you will make this much, because that is the average of everyone working here."

      My training was second to none. I worked with the new guys to make sure they had sales under their belts fast.

      The secret was that we all worked hard. Everyone pulled their weight, and nobody felt like they were taken advantage of.

      They tended to stay (if they made it through the first two weeks) for a year or more. Turnover was low because they made money.

      The reason the board looked so good, was that I was quick to let go people who were unteachable. And frankly, most people aren't going to make it as an in home salesperson. I would even tell them that at the beginning.

      Eventually, I figured out that the best salespeople had experience working as kid in some sales capacity, usually in their parent's business.

      One thing I find interesting is that nearly every millionaire I talk to, had at one time sold something in people's homes. And they worked on commission.

      It's like the Marines. If you can survive the training, you can do anything.

      Anyway, sorry to see Larches go. It was interesting.
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      • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        I had a white board that took up almost the entire wall. It had the rep's names, how many presentations (by day), how many sales, how many referrals, and then weekly totals.
        Ahhh the infamous e white board.

        It humbles the big dogs, uplifts the puppies and keeps everyone
        on a level playing field.

        IMHO the board is more important then the top 3 sales people.


        Our board is also from wall to wall, floor to ceiling.
        It is not a white board though. It is wood and has lateral aluminum
        strips with grooves.

        Our board is same as yours except we have it broken up hourly.
        and we slide index cards in the hourly positions to mark sales and the amount.
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        • Profile picture of the author John Durham
          Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post


          IMHO the board is more important then the top 3 sales people.
          Only a real manager knows something like that. The "Board". Thats all that matters in a call center, what it says. It's whats on EVERYONES mind. Everytime you walk up to it with a marker, all eyes are on you.

          Every competitor is watching it to see who is beating him, and every newby to see where they land on it, hoping they arent completely at the bottom. It's what everyone measures themselves against...

          It's what lets you know if you are on the verge of probation or not...

          It tells you if you are in the red or in the black, if you are mediocre, or if you are playing with the champions, how much you need to raise your conversions by percentage...who is converting better than you are....

          I like to be on the top personally.
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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

            I like to be on the top personally.
            That's good to know John, but I don't think I would use it as my opening line.
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            • Profile picture of the author John Durham
              Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

              That's good to know John, but I don't think I would use it as my opening line.
              Well, even in a call center, me being on top turns out to be a better experience for everyone else in general.

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