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Question on Offline Ranking Pricing

by jaudet
11 replies
Hello guys!

I am working right now on ranking videos on both Youtube and Google for different business. In fact, this is my 1st test with a realtor that I know. I contacted him to know if he was interested and I gave it a go.

So far so good. Nice increase in rankings from page 20 in Google to page 5 after only couple of days without too much work. I am confident on page 1 top 3 rankings for 1 keyword in 1-2 weeks.

Now my question is how should you determine the price. Here is my understanding about the pricing and I would like your inputs.

In my mind, we can't just have a fix price because every situation is different, traffic is different etc. We should determine the price according to the business lifetime customer value. Therefore, a realtor is in the thousand range while a pizza shop is lot lower.

However, as offline SEO expert, should we take into account the conversion rate too ? Let's say for example that my realtor keyword is searched 200 hundred times per month. If I get him a top ranking, should we then calculate how much from the 200 hundred potential clients will call and become customer.

If so, how can we know the possible conversion rate we will get and then determine let's say a commission of 10% out of the total clients that will become customer multiply by the lifetime value?

I need your help to clear this out.
#offline #pricing #question #ranking
  • Profile picture of the author Aaron Doud
    Price on how much work you will do not on how much they will make or rather they can afford it or not.

    How much they will make is how you show value.

    If it will take you 10 hours a month charge based on that rather the guy will make $1,000 or $1,000,000 from that.

    So how many hours a month of work will it be? How much are you, your team, and your knowledge worth per hour? Add any costs you have (marked up of course) and any base fee you think the service should have.

    Base fee Example: $1,000 base plus $200/hr. So a 5 hour client would be $2,000/mo and a 10 hour client would be $3,000/mo.

    Once you got that figure always figure in a flub factor. Say 20%. You can either do this to the hours or the whole amount. And that is what you charge. They can't afford it? Either you do less and charge less and thus get less results or they are not a client for you.

    This way if the guy who is making huge money from your service refers you to all his friends with smaller businesses you don't look stupid for charging them $2k/m and him $50k for doing a similar job.

    Of course always be clear to clients and yourself that each case is unique and the solution you propose is based on their needs. Someone quoted them less? Well I guess they will either do less or are worth less. And no one wants to hire the "kmart" of the consultants.

    Just getting started? Focus on smaller businesses and lower prices. As you get experience raise prices but allow them some wiggle room. Maybe you charged them $50/hr but you now feel you are worth $300/hr. Don't lose them. reward loyalty and as long as it is profitable do $100/hr or less. Use those accounts to train your new people before you unleash them on yours big accounts.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by Aaron Doud View Post

      Price on how much work you will do not on how much they will make or rather they can afford it or not.
      Me too. I price based on what I want. What they make is their business. What they can afford is their business.

      I charged a business owner $2,000 to rank two of his videos to page one of a popular national search. If it took me 10 minutes or 24 hours of effort, the price would have been the same. Sometimes I get lucky, sometimes not.

      For $4,000 they get two videos I create on page one of a local Google search. Maybe 4 or 5 min keywords. Up to 8 cities. Sometimes it takes a few hours, sometimes 24 hours. Everyone pays the same. Sometimes they get 4 or 5 videos on page one. But that isn't because I'm working more, it's because their business and city and competition make it easier or harder.

      This isn't the only way to price, maybe not the best. But it's what I do.
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      • Profile picture of the author RedShifted
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        Me too. I price based on what I want. What they make is their business. What they can afford is their business.

        I charged a business owner $2,000 to rank two of his videos to page one of a popular national search. If it took me 10 minutes or 24 hours of effort, the price would have been the same. Sometimes I get lucky, sometimes not.

        For $4,000 they get two videos I create on page one of a local Google search. Maybe 4 or 5 min keywords. Up to 8 cities. Sometimes it takes a few hours, sometimes 24 hours. Everyone pays the same. Sometimes they get 4 or 5 videos on page one. But that isn't because I'm working more, it's because their business and city and competition make it easier or harder.

        This isn't the only way to price, maybe not the best. But it's what I do.
        No offense, but I sense a shocking lack of concern towards your clients profits with a model like that.

        I have no idea what keywords you're going after, but if your goal is to merely charge "what you want", without factoring in the actual profitability or results of your work... then what incentive do you have to create results in the first place?

        That just seems like a seriously hit or miss type of model.

        Is your goal to randomly create results for a small % of your customers?
        Then the majority of them just don't return?

        I think you'd be better off putting the prices on a wheel, then spinning it.


        ------

        In response to the thread. Charge for results. Charge for traffic. You can even throw in tracking and collect for the calls, or negotiate a % commission on their sales.

        Whatever you do, you should make damn sure that its profitable for your clients. If you actually want them to return, or refer you to their friends. If you pick a number out of the sky, you're going to spend all your time looking into the clouds if you catch my drift.
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        • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
          Originally Posted by RedShifted View Post

          No offense, but I sense a shocking lack of concern towards your clients profits with a model like that.

          I have no idea what keywords you're going after, but if your goal is to merely charge "what you want", without factoring in the actual profitability or results of your work... then what incentive do you have to create results in the first place?

          That just seems like a seriously hit or miss type of model.

          Is your goal to randomly create results for a small % of your customers?
          Then the majority of them just don't return?

          I think you'd be better off putting the prices on a wheel, then spinning it.
          You also have to realize that profit is not always the main concern. Do you think Coke or pepsi is thinking in terms of profit when they are throwing millions away at a billboard?

          The important thing here, is to realize what drives your clients. Is it profit? Is it branding? Is it just to knock a competitor out of the way? Not everything is profitable, and even things that aren't profitable are still desired.

          An attorney that spends $40,000/year in the yellow pages... is it always profitable? Nah... but he gets to boost his ego with it, which is important to him and his image in front of clients and colleagues, maybe interns.

          In general though, I agree with you Red. When you genuinely care about people and their business, they will usually care about you and yours as well. However... if you decide to charge $500 for something... you're going to have people that can afford it, and can't afford it. You can have people that will turn a profit, and those that won't. When you're selling the typical services, it isn't directly your responsibility to bring a profit to the company, it is your responsibility to create the opportunity to bring a profit.
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          • Profile picture of the author jaudet
            Thank you guys for all your detailed answers.

            Seem like most of you have some kind of fixed pricing base on your work or simply the same price for everyone, and therefore some clients will afford it and some not.

            Because my area is pretty low in competition and I was able to rank videos within 1-2 weeks in Google near page 1, I think that my videos won't need much work every month. Probably only some monitoring and backlinks building.

            I was thinking setting up a base fee to set everything, from video creation to account setup and video optimization. When the video reaches page 1, my clients would pay a fix amount per month so they get all the visibility for a top ranking on Google and Youtube.

            So from what I understand, if I charge a fix amount of money each month for each clients, I should charge the same price for pretty much everyone since the work needed will be about the same rather than what I was thinking first (set price according to lifetime customer value). Like someone mentionned it, if I get a referal from a client and get different pricing, I might run into trouble.

            However, that will make a natural selection on the niche I should target because a pizza shop will most likely won't be able to afford it while a dentist, chiropractor will and a lawyer for instance will laugh at my face because they all get different ROI.

            According to what I read, did I get it correctly ?
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            • Profile picture of the author PaulintheSticks
              Originally Posted by jaudet View Post

              Thank you guys for all your detailed answers.

              Seem like most of you have some kind of fixed pricing base on your work or simply the same price for everyone, and therefore some clients will afford it and some not.

              Because my area is pretty low in competition and I was able to rank videos within 1-2 weeks in Google near page 1, I think that my videos won't need much work every month. Probably only some monitoring and backlinks building.

              I was thinking setting up a base fee to set everything, from video creation to account setup and video optimization. When the video reaches page 1, my clients would pay a fix amount per month so they get all the visibility for a top ranking on Google and Youtube.

              So from what I understand, if I charge a fix amount of money each month for each clients, I should charge the same price for pretty much everyone since the work needed will be about the same rather than what I was thinking first (set price according to lifetime customer value). Like someone mentionned it, if I get a referal from a client and get different pricing, I might run into trouble.

              However, that will make a natural selection on the niche I should target because a pizza shop will most likely won't be able to afford it while a dentist, chiropractor will and a lawyer for instance will laugh at my face because they all get different ROI.

              According to what I read, did I get it correctly ?
              Personally, I wouldn't change the pricing based on the niche as like you said if your clients find out they probably wouldn't be too happy. Volume price adjustments are definitely a good option though.

              And for those that can't afford paying all in cash you might also consider partial payment in other value such as barter or even a testimonial. And don't forget about financing options. Making it as easy as possible without killing your margins makes a lot of sense to me.

              I also try to add low cost (to me) but high perceived value that the competition doesn't. Also, you'll find out if you need to adjust your pricing once you start selling and finding out how people respond and looking at your net profit margins. Test, test, test.
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          • Profile picture of the author bwh1
            I have to disagree to your post here, and that's not based on any Offline Marketing stuff I've learned over the last 24 month, it's basic logic and 20 year+ sales experience.

            A client, whatever client, NEVER spends 40k solely based on boosting his EGO. Even a branding campaign has a financial goal in mind, and in case of Coke or Pepsi it's to NOT loosing market share.

            That's just how budgeting works, put 2 in to get 4 out.

            Well, off course we all know that really deep down his gut's it's the truth and a few clients maybe do spend on advertising for their Ego but when they pull the trigger to sign a 40k Marketing campaign, they ALWAYS think that they make a hell of a deal by doing so and will get twice the value in return for what they pay for.

            Only poor people don't have a clue about the real value of money. The more they have the more they want in return for what they pay for.

            I love this thread by the way, lot's of good info and don't take this personal iAmNameLess, OK.

            G.


            Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

            You also have to realize that profit is not always the main concern. Do you think Coke or pepsi is thinking in terms of profit when they are throwing millions away at a billboard?

            The important thing here, is to realize what drives your clients. Is it profit? Is it branding? Is it just to knock a competitor out of the way? Not everything is profitable, and even things that aren't profitable are still desired.

            An attorney that spends $40,000/year in the yellow pages... is it always profitable? Nah... but he gets to boost his ego with it, which is important to him and his image in front of clients and colleagues, maybe interns.

            In general though, I agree with you Red. When you genuinely care about people and their business, they will usually care about you and yours as well. However... if you decide to charge $500 for something... you're going to have people that can afford it, and can't afford it. You can have people that will turn a profit, and those that won't. When you're selling the typical services, it isn't directly your responsibility to bring a profit to the company, it is your responsibility to create the opportunity to bring a profit.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
          Originally Posted by RedShifted View Post

          No offense, but I sense a shocking lack of concern towards your clients profits with a model like that.

          I have no idea what keywords you're going after, but if your goal is to merely charge "what you want", without factoring in the actual profitability or results of your work... then what incentive do you have to create results in the first place?

          That just seems like a seriously hit or miss type of model.
          No offense taken. I could have said "charge what I want" a little differently. My goal is to charge what it will take for me to take on the client. Maybe I should have been clearer.

          For $2,000? I'll work harder, if need be, to generate the results the client wants. And I won't be nickel and diming him for more money.

          Do dentists charge for their time? Nope. They do a job, and have a set fee. That's simply my approach. I care about results. And I charge as much as I want to take on the task.

          I'm not charging for specific sales results. There are a thousand things that influence sales that are out of my control. I understand why you would charge per lead...or per sale.... It's a different way of looking at it. And depending on the client, and a multitude of conditions, one way is better than another.

          I'm selling exposure on Google for specific keywords and locations. Most times, the main goal is sales, but not always.

          Here's the way I look at pricing;
          How much is a service worth?
          I pick a price that I think the client will see as fair, and high enough that I won't mind doing the work.

          Here is an example; I sell a vacuum cleaner for $500 that costs me $240. Let's say I've sold thousands at that price. Suddenly, I get a letter from the company saying that they are changing the model, and will sell me the machines...in any quantity...for $75.

          First, I buy as many as my credit card will allow. Usually every one available.
          But...I don't lower the price. Why not? The sale price is based on a number of factors, but my cost isn't one of them.

          And with services, my price is based on how much I want to charge to feel good about taking the money, but enough to feel good about doing the work.

          I guarantee exposure and ranking...because that's my job. They make sales and keep the money, because that's their job.

          My advertising reps don't get a piece of what their ad brings in. I sell advertising. Believe me, my clients are happy with the results, or they wouldn't keep referring other clients to me.

          Okey Dokey?
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          • Profile picture of the author jaudet
            Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post


            My advertising reps don't get a piece of what their ad brings in. I sell advertising. Believe me, my clients are happy with the results, or they wouldn't keep referring other clients to me.

            Okey Dokey?
            That is a really good way to put it up. In fact, that only cleared up lot of things going in my head right now.

            Thanks guys for all your input.
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            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by jaudet View Post

              That is a really good way to put it up. In fact, that only cleared up lot of things going in my head right now.

              Thanks guys for all your input.
              Thank you. But remember, that's what I do. That doesn't mean it's the best approach. Charging per lead, or per sale is just as valid, and may be even more profitable. This is just the way I do my business.
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  • Profile picture of the author PaulintheSticks
    Pricing based on market value makes the most sense to me. If other people offer the same value for $100/hr then I want to be in that ball park. Of course value is more than just the service you're hired to do and includes intangibles such as how much they like you. Its pretty obvious that people are willing to pay more for services that are tied to relationships.
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