There is too many "offliners(cold callers)"?

by 56 replies
78
Ok... lets says in all U.S there is 20 million bus' without a site.... and there is 15k cold callers that target for U.S bus', each cold caller close between 1-2 sales per day
so 15,000 X 1.5 = new 22,500 sites per day. so in a year this will be
22,500 x 365 = 8,212,500 sites! there is limited space in offline marketing... i think one day cold calling\sales website for bus' will be dead.
#offline marketing #offlinerscold callers
  • I hear this every week. And I have for over 30 years. Different industries, same story.

    You are assuming several things in your example;
    Nobody will ever be born again
    Nobody new will enter any business
    Nobody that is a telemarketer will ever quit (HA!!!!!!!!!!)
    Nobody will ever deal with more than one internet provider-No switching services
    Nobody will ever have TWO websites.
    The telemarketers will never have an off day.
    Nobody ever cancels their website service.
    Nobody ever goes out of business.
    Nobody ever moves.



    "What happens when everyone has a car!? Nobody will ever buy one again"

    'What happens if everyone eats a hamburger? Nobody will ever be hungry again, and then restaurants will all go out of business"

    "If everyone buys a lottery ticket...and they all lose. They will all smarten up, and nobody will play the lottery again!"


    Sorry, I think you were probably sincere in your thought. But I've heard it 1,000 times......And It Never...Ever....Gets...Old.
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    • It doesn't matter anyway. We all know that telemarketing died years ago.
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  • Stop thinking and f***ing dial already.
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  • Although cold calling isn't dead and there will never be a time where there is not enough business out there...

    There has been a significant increase in "offline" marketing consultants (people who sell seo, web design etc) and companies that specialize in this since 10 years ago. So where it would be very easy 10 years ago to set an appointment today the same businesses are getting called 3-5 times per day about the same services (web design, seo etc).

    So it has gotten harder to do traditional cold calling than it used to be. If you can adapt, and do something different that is more efficient and lower your cost per lead and cost per sale you will exceed the rest. We have changed our entire approach last month just for that reason alone....no matter how you change your script and target the list it's still harder than it used to be...so businesses that do something different and unique will get the appointments and those that don't...wont.
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  • From 2007 to 2011, I never got one call for web design or SEO for my personal training business.
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    • Then your business must have been either 1) an anomaly 2) not present anywhere only at all, no directories or 3) Somehow not listed in any business database. 4) In such a desolate area that no one thought to call you


      I find the last 3 difficult to be true so it must have been an anomaly haha
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  • You didn't account for 50,000 new businesses sign up with Telcos every week.

    Want that list?

    Best,
    Ewen
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  • I had planned to do cold calling last year when I was a little slow. Things took off and now I'm busy enough that cold calling is the last thing I want to think about. While I do not doubt that cold calling can result in customers, depending on your business your efforts might be better spent on other client acquisition methods. This forum is especially very pro telemarketing because a couple of the daily posters all have WSO's that support cold callers (coincidence?, use your judgement). It has also been stated many places that this offline section has basically degraded to a staging ground for WSO's. So as always, exercise due diligence.

    If your target market is local businesses, stopping in for a chat will always be more effective than a cold call.
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    • I could not agree with you more. It's like this section of the forums has been taken over by narcissistic self proclaimed telemarketing gurus who can't hold a conversation in a thread without hijacking it and talking about telemarketing.

      I should hold my tongue and not say any more otherwise... well you know.


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  • I'm convinced the real reason people hate telemarketers is because they don't know how to say no to them. The reason cold calling works is the same reason crap like Pickup Artist works... you refine your pitch and talk to enough people, eventually one will say yes.
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  • Holy.... i don't expect for so many replies. Thanks. So cold calling is not dead?
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    • No...but it's hard if your not unique or have something unique to offer or approach it in a unique way that no one else is, or few are at least.
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  • To be honest. I have never bought something from a cold caller. I get angry at them for wasting my time. If I want something I will call you.

    However, there was someone who called me persistently every two weeks for half a year until I snapped on him. He was a local company selling a video service and offering to give me a percentage (I have a local web design and development biz). So fast forward to now, if he had called me last week again I would have taken him up on the offer cuz a client is asking for these services. So I guess the moral of the story is, expect to get yelled at but I suppose you will get someone at the right time.

    PS: as I wrote that out I realized the value of cold calling.. haha
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    • thanks, but i think like ronrule say "you refine your pitch and talk to enough people, eventually one will say yes. " i mean 1 of 35 calls will make a sale....
    • I have. But what I can tell you for certain, the more I learn about running a business, the more capable I'm becoming, the less and less I enjoy conversations with cold callers.

      Even Yelp cold called today trying to sell us ads.

      The woman who called was the rudest person I've ever spoke to. I straight out asked her what she was trying to sell, and told her that I very likely wouldn't be interested in it.

      Her cocky response was, "but Yelp has already made your business money, and I just want to show you how we can make your company more money".

      In my head I'm thinking "wth is this woman talking about?"

      I said "wait.. wut? You've made our business money? How come I don't know about this but you do?"

      She said something like "I have access to 'special data' on your company, I can tell you for certain that we've made your company money".

      At this point I was both laughing but infuriated. Then I remembered we had reviews on Yelp, and that must have been what she was refering to. As far as them "making us money".

      I said, "wait, are you talking about our reviews?"
      She said, "yes, precisely".

      I said, "well thats great, because I'm the one who had to do all the hard work to get those reviews, and those customers didn't come from yelp they came from my google places, but I asked thoese customers to leave reviews on yelp because our google places had too many reviews... just go take a look".

      Then I mentioned how if it wasn't for google, I wouldn't even be using yelp in the first place, because I wouldn't have customers to leave reviews on their site.

      I also mentioned how we track every call that we get (its always the first question we ask callers), and how I knew for a fact we only got 1 call from Yelp which didn't convert.

      After that, its like she ignored what I said as she repeated, "we just want to show your company how we can make you more money". I couldn't believe how dense this b!tch was. That was the point I said, "look, I don't care what happens to my listing, and thanks to this akward conversation, I will intentionally go out of my way now to avoid yelp".

      Then I hung up.

      I'll be honest, I was looking forward to getting more reviews on my yelp, and ranking it, I do see a tiny bit of potential that way.. (along with dominating local directores in general) but if yelp employees are really that rude & cocky, I don't want a thing to do with this company.

      Anyway, this was a completely off topic rant. But I do hear what you're saying.

      -Red
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    • but Im guessign because he never used another approach other than cold calling, you dont have his contact details right?

      So the bozo does all that work , the same thing time and again, and fails (with you anyway)

      Yet split the lead gen up, cold call, direct mail, email, cold call, email, lumpy mail, cold visit, postcard etc etc and youd have his details and hed have more ways to connect
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  • You'll never run out businesses. Plus, each division is another prospect. Not to mention the schools, associations, etc. out there with lots of cash. Add in the millions of businesses outside the U.S., and your finger will be worn down to a stump by the time you call them all.
  • I have never tried cold calling, but I am getting clients from using bandit signs in rural areas. (I was nervous about putting bandit signs within the city limits) If I can get clients with my limited exposure then I am sure cold calling can produce much more sales.
  • 80% of those telemarketers are going to be shit fighting for 20% of the business.

    Those aren't going to be the guys closing 'your' sales, you only need to be marginally better in execution to see a BIG difference in your long-term success.
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  • It kind of "feels" to me like you are looking for reasons to talk yourself out of it.

    Look...the lion has to go out...chase down the wildebeest...and eat it alive before the damned hyenas attack and steal it.

    That is cold calling. Sure...he could probably keep food on his plate by waiting for sick or weak wildebeests to come to him. But, I imagine lion's like to stay well fed. And so do I. I don't care if every wannabe marketer in hell is calling the same 100 businesses. I know for certain that I can get one of them to let me help them make more money.

    The bottom line is I can help them more than most of the others who are calling. So I don't back down one bit. Can you say the same? If so, get on the phone, grab the wildebeest by the neck, serve their business as a professional and make them a lot of money.

    Doing all this math just slows you down and makes you not want to call!
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  • Banned
    [DELETED]
  • Hi there,

    The lazy cold-callers are the ones that use automated phone blasts to call. These are truly the scourge of business. I was in a client's office this morning and he received one of these and put it on speaker for me to hear. His face was red with rage. He told me he gets 5-6 of these a day. He asked me how other clients were stopping them and I had to call our tech guy to see if we'd provided a solution to any other clients. Many of our clients like to answer the phone directly (no menu) so this is a big problem and I'm sure it's only going to get worse.

    One of our programmers has an idea how to stop it. I'll let you know how it goes, if you're interested.

    All the best,

    Sasha.
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  • Whether or not it is over one day, your life won't start unless you quit making excuses and take action...
  • I have to agree with Rus on this one. I don't think it has to do with anyone specifically.

    What bothers me is right now, there are about 10-12 cold calling threads on the first page of the offline section.

    Maybe like 2-3 email marketing threads, a couple craigslist threads, and 1-2 direct mail threads.

    What I don't understand, is the persistent lack of diversity that I see in this forum. I often question why such a large group of people seem to be so obsessed with cold calling. Especially when we have things like the do not call registry. Like the UK defaults for organ donations when you renew your license, the US should default for putting all new numbers in the do not call registry. Then people can opt out if they actually wish to recieve promotional calls from people. If that ever actually happened, I'm confident that 99% of cold calling would stop tommorow.

    Where are all the local search threads?

    Or in depth discussions about using email marketing to find clients.

    For some reason, I feel like this forum has become grossly skewed towards cold calling.

    I look at the 9-10 local business owners I know, and I can only name 2 who use cold calling to sell their services (small sample I know, I still think it means something). It also comes off highly incongruent when someone cold calls my company to sell me something like mobile marketing. I always ask immediately "if mobile marketing is so good... why didn't I find YOU through my phone?"

    If cold calling is so good, then why not SELL cold calling services to local businesses?

    I already know I'm going to upset a lot of people. Thats not my intention. All I'm saying is that I don't understand it.

    Where are the local search gurus? I know there was one around here, who rarely posts anymore. Maybe they're too busy handling clients. IDRK.

    I realize that I've hijacked this thread. But in a way I agree with the OP. There are way too many marketers cold calling. Way too many intrusive phone calls when companies are trying to run their biz. Even if you can make money doing it, right now, its obviously saturated. You guys are only making it harder on yourselves by talking about it all the time. Because out of the 5-10 calls I get every single day, especially as a business owner hoping that its clients, the second I realize its a telemarketer I immediately become rude and obnoxious. Even the seldom few who might be good, I give them nothing but shit. Stop calling my company. I'm trying to keep the lines open for clients, not so you people can pitch me. Even when I hang up immediately, they have the nerve to call back a couple hours later, like parasites.

    Do you people really like putting up with that garbage?
    It it even worth it to desensitive yourself to asshole business owners like me?

    To be hung up on, call after call after call, looking for that 1 person who might say yes?

    I'm not even sure if "thick skin" is the word for it. It takes a truley special type of person to shut their mind off from crap like that every day.

    Then I come on this forum and see more cold calling threads. As if you guys don't have enough competition as it is.

    Let me shut up. This deserves a seperate thread. But I completely agree with Rus here.


    -Red
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    • This forum is about sharing ideas and what works. Cold calling works. So does DM and inbound marketing. Would you prefer no one to add anything of value out of fear for more competition? What's the point of this forum if so?
    • Red,

      I get why you are pissed at the callers. Almost nobody ENJOYS getting the calls. So, I am not going to argue with your personal feelings on the matter as that would be futile.

      But, I CAN answer your question above.

      Marketing has changed. People have many, many choices. People have access to all sorts of info. The market is saturated in almost every single industry.

      This means that 90% of potential customers for any given product are not actively looking for your product. I understand you do mold remediation, so that is a different story. Your customers have an urgent problem and need someone to solve it so they go looking for you. The passive marketing solutions still work well for you because of this.

      These days marketing is not about going after the 10% who are actively looking for a specific solution. The market is so crowded that the way to reach customers is through ENGAGEMENT. We have to actively engage with our marketplace. We have to reach out to that 90% who aren't currently looking. Maybe a third of them have a nagging desire in their mind that we can help with and our call is just the thing to help them take action.

      As a business owner, you KNOW how there are so many things going on in your mind and things you need to do and just don't have time right now. If someone came along and offered to do them for you, you might take a second and deal with them. Maybe your business is going pretty well right now, so marketing is not a desperate or even a nagging need in your mind. There may come a day that will change for you, and you will give that caller a few minutes because you hope he can help you.

      For your mobile example, there is no way in hell I would reach you via mobile advertising. B2B sales are much, much different than B2C.

      However, mobile advertising just might work wonders for your business. Imagine this scenario - you know a local neighborhood was flooded and mold is likely to be an issue.

      So, you create a nice little marketing funnel. First, you send people around knocking and leaving door hangers. Second, you target that neighborhood with some direct mail like EDDM and ValPak. Then, you top it off with location specific mobile advertising and some internet display ads leading people to a landing page. And to finish, after running all these, you send someone around again knocking and leaving hangers, just to help harvest the seeds you have been planting.

      This stuff individually might all work OK. Combine them, and you might have a kick ass sales funnel for the few hundred homes in that neighborhood. Your cost per customer will be so low its a joke to even talk about. After three months of this, anyone who even thinks they might have a mold problem will think of you.

      So, no, us marketers will never reach you via a mobile app. BUT - maybe you should give a real marketer a few minutes to see if they really know how to use the tools they are selling you and help you test to the next level.

      Sure, most of them will be amateurs. But once you work with someone who is a true marketer and knows how to grow businesses, you might be very happy that they cold called you.

      Nope. Nobody is HAPPY when they get a cold call. But they are damn sure happy they gave me two minutes to explain how I can help them.

      And the people who are rude and angry? There aren't as many as you think. You are in the minority. I get MAYBE 1 or 2 rude people every 500 calls. And even they aren't really THAT rude. They weren't going to pay me anyway.

      I'm looking for people who have a need that I can help them with.
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  • /\ You're right, this forum IS for sharing ideas. Not discussing moral dilemnas.

    So I'm going to share an idea with anyone who owns a business.

    https://www.donotcall.gov/

    This thread wasn't a total waste afterall, it reminded me to add my own # to the registry.

    In 30 days, you won't see me complaining anymore.

    -Red
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    • The national Do-Not-Call list protects home voice or personal wireless phone numbers only. While you may be able to register a business number, your registration will not make telephone solicitations to that number unlawful.

      Unwanted Telephone Marketing Calls | FCC.gov
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  • Before I became a business/sales person I bought a lot of stuff over the phone - from magazines to credit cards. You name it I pretty much bought it. If that's not enough I took care of myself in college by being a telemarketer and even now I'm getting offline appointments from the phone, so take it from me...smiling and dialing will never die
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    • Me too

      I worked a bunch of crappy menial jobs to pay for the basics in life .. such as food.

      Then one day .. completely by accident, I found sales... telephone sales
      to be precise... that became my career and was what allowed
      me to make it through schooling, have a nest egg, start a business , ect ...

      sales are sales are sales ...but to me ... telephone sales have a special place
      in my heart ... it gave me the momentum to change the direction of my life.
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  • I couldn't agree with this statement more.
  • The reason TM permeates this forum is because:

    A) it's virtually free to do it.
    B) it works
    C) it separates the pikers from the salesmen
    D) it immediately gets your foot in the door, especially with other successful businessmen that understand salesmanship takes brass balls
    E) TM is tried and true and you don't need to buy another con-man's WSO about the glories of email marketing millions who's never been successful except at conning and still lives in his mother's basement.

    While you crybabies have been circle-jerking about TM'ers and how big of pikers they are, I have opened 11 new accounts over the past 3 weeks, 90 percent of them simply by dialing a complete stranger cold, or walking in cold in person and asking for their business.

    Additionally, I've been on high potential appointments at nursing homes, machining shops, electrical co-ops, well-known local auto repair shops, restaurants, national restaurants, telecom companies, and local mechanics -- all in the past 3 weeks -- all because I'm an annoying telemarketer who asks for the appointment.

    This is the power of full-contact prospecting -- picking that phone up or walking in cold. Again and again. Yes, warm lead gen works. But at a definite cost and uncertain level of risk.

    But newbies who aren't suckers to the WSO lure need to learn how to give good phone and grow a pair if they want to increase their chances of survival, because it freekin WORKS.
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  • I have won long term clients from outbound telemarketing and robo calls.

    You can use automated technology and make 40 calls per hour; have multiple conversations and a get only a few hangups. Get yourself a speed dialer or predictive dialer. When calling local businesses make sure you use a local phone number. The business owner will pick up or call you back. Call off hours. Mornings work best.

    My suggestion is that you plan your campaign (Vertical or Geographically). Make sure you have basic info - Business name, Phone, Website, name of business owner if available.

    Telemarketing is brute force sales and it will work but you have to get past the learning curve and have thick skin.

    I would not outsource this as you will sound like every other firm selling page 1 of Google not have an opportunity to use situational fluency to find pain and create a vision.

    If you want to hear cold call pitches set up a fake local business with a phone number. Enter your business in local.com and a couple of other top directories and you will hear the VMs.

    I have a got a guy who does the very best and cheapest form of Robo calls. You will break even or better. But I found that I spent a lot of time chasing the leads down.

    I have other great ways to break into verticals or local areas. PM if you are interested. Zero costs.

    I can do a fast WSO on telemarketing to local businesses if enough people want the details.
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    • No self-promotion in your posts, please. Do it in your signature if you must.
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  • Yes, there are too many people doing it, and it is dead, and it doesn't work. Stop doing it, find something else to do.

    The rest of us thank you for taking yourself out of the pool.


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  • I love reading the anti cold calling rants. They crack me up. Mainly because the business I work for has a cold caller who is a true champion. In fact, to give you a picture of this individual I will tell a very short story.

    We decided to send our sales and telemarketing managers to a conference to improve their cold calling. The major selling point was something along the lines of "how to get over your fear and hatred of cold calling". This guy asked, "What if I love cold calling?!?"

    Anyways, he talks to hundreds and hundreds of people a week. Most are polite and simply decline, some are slightly agitated and then hang up and a very very small minority are rude.

    Sometimes, after 6 months, he calls those who rejected his pitch back. Sure enough the rude ones frequently become friendly.

    Cold calling is about getting the RIGHT person at the RIGHT time. You don't know who the right person is and you don't know when the right time is - so you play the numbers. You refine your pitch. You educate your prospect of the value you provide.

    This guy doesn't try to deceive anyone. He says upfront who he is and what he wants. He isn't thrown off by you saying "I am not interested" - he keeps trying to have a conversation until a conversation is had or someone hangs up.

    Then he moves on.

    And he helps our salespeople get 20 contracts a month for very complex B2B customers in an oversaturated and perfectly competitive market.

    If there was a way I could have clients come crawling to me, without spending thousand s upon thousands of dollars, I would do that instead of cold calling. Sadly, I haven't found it.
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    • So true. I got lucky a few weeks ago and the main guy picked up the phone. I pitched for an appointment but he asked me to call back at a certain date/time.

      I did for the past 2 days but couldn't get to him (gate keepers / not in office)

      I called back today and we finally set an appointment for 13th May.

      Was it luck? Who knows but I like to think I made my luck here but actually taking action and doing what most people hate doing.
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    • Persistence! Consistency! Ability!

      Thank goodness most cold callers are so terrible, the call never gets started off right and ends abruptly.

      A market can be saturated. So what? Most sales are made in the salesperson's mind. Funny how the good ones get a consistent revenue every month--their comfort zone won't let them do any less.

      I personally don't worry about the competition...let them do what they're doing (usually badly); I'll be here long after they're gone. And so will your friend here.
    • I would thanks this 10 times if I could!

  • I have to admit, I hate cold calling and don't do much of it at all, but if someone has the right approach, I would probably respond positively to a cold call.

    Rather than cold call 100 businesses, one alternative approach is to get find a way to get in front of those same 100 businesses without ever making a cold call.

    I'll explain...

    Last year I was able to break through to a local business owner who had a terrible website, absolutely sucked and I knew they needed help. I did a mockup for them and over a period of time, I consistently offered my help in fixing their problem.

    Why did I persist with this one client?

    Because they not only needed my help, but I knew that the owner of the business was on the board of a local business association.

    Long story short...

    I secured doing a website and mobile website for this business, along with SMS marketing. Very shortly after, the owner asked me to do a presentation on mobile marketing to the entire business association at one of their monthly meetings.

    Cha ching....

    That presentation turned into more mobile websites, and more importantly, the board asked me to do a makeover of the current business association's website (which also sucked). So now the door is wide open to 100+ local businesses because I am now the official webmaster and guru of the association's website.

    One of their goals is to increase association membership, and I am in the process of implementing marketing ideas to increase membership - which means the door will be open to even more local businesses.

    So if you cold call, leverage can be your friend by sharing your knowledge with others.
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  • 78

    There is too many "offliners(cold callers)"?

    Ok... lets says in all U.S there is 20 million bus' without a site.... and there is 15k cold callers that target for U.S bus', each cold caller close between 1-2 sales per day so 15,000 X 1.5 = new 22,500 sites per day. so in a year this will be 22,500 x 365 = 8,212,500 sites! there is limited space in offline marketing... i think one day cold calling\sales website for bus' will be dead.