Lead Generation,

11 years ago

Some charge 10 x google adwords cost per click
But I say it depends on the niche and the value of the lead
What niche do you need leads for?

Thanks
1 reply

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donza 11 years ago

Originally Posted by AussieT

Some charge 10 x google adwords cost per click
But I say it depends on the niche and the value of the lead
What niche do you need leads for?

A stone. tile and decorative concrete restoration and maintenance business
- Thanks
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kenmichaels

11 years ago

Originally Posted by donza

After hanging out at this site for a while I can pretty much spot a lead generation site from half a mile away. It invariably has the keyword city, the copy is really ambiguous, the about us page is really vague,

Those type of lead gen sites don't really produce very well.
If you can see it coming from a mile away, so can everyone else.

Also, there are industry standards when it comes to a price per lead.

Are you talking paper leads, ( as in you print and ship or deliver daily / weekly )
or a download section, email delivery system, inbound phone call?

The info on each lead, the niche, if its a buyer or a browser ( qualified or just a warm body on the phone )
all determine cost. Actually all that really determines is what the average buyers are willing to spend.

Can you offer bulk ... or drip .. that also is part of cost.

Are they exclusive? ... are selling to a medium sized bizz, selling to phone rooms ...

and on and on.

What niche, what type leads and how do you plan to get them?

Tell me those, and if i am familiar, i will tell you the fair market value.
If i don't know, i will tell you that to.

I know a ton of niches costs, but not all
I have been selling, buying and trading for 20 + years.
So i know a little something about something when it comes to this topic

One more thing, lead costs fluctuate ... like the stock market, up one month
down another. How much it fluctuates depends on who your selling them too.

Thanks
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donza

11 years ago

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

Those type of lead gen sites don't really produce very well.
If you can see it coming from a mile away, so can everyone else.

Also, there are industry standards when it comes to a price per lead.

Are you talking paper leads, ( as in you print and ship or deliver daily / weekly )
or a download section, email delivery system, inbound phone call?

The info on each lead, the niche, if its a buyer or a browser ( qualified or just a warm body on the phone )
all determine cost. Actually all that really determines is what the average buyers are willing to spend.

Can you offer bulk ... or drip .. that also is part of cost.

Are they exclusive? ... are selling to a medium sized bizz, selling to phone rooms ...

and on and on.

What niche, what type leads and how do you plan to get them?

Tell me those, and if i am familiar, i will tell you the fair market value.
If i don't know, i will tell you that to.

I know a ton of niches costs, but not all
I have been selling, buying and trading for 20 + years.
So i know a little something about something when it comes to this topic

One more thing, lead costs fluctuate ... like the stock market, up one month
down another. How much it fluctuates depends on who your selling them too.

Hi Ken,

I think you misunderstood my question. I'm buying leads for my own business, a stone tile and decorative concrete restoration business. I have only just started up and I am exploring various "low cost" ways to generate business.

The company I contacted is like a one stop shop for property maintenance. Their site is very professional and I believe only someone with knowledge about lead generation sites would suspect they are a lead generation site.

The way I see it working is they will add my service, which they do not presently offer, onto their site. When someone asks for that particular type of work to be done they will pass the lead onto me.

As I have no idea of the quality of the leads how much should I pay? Nothing until I establish their value? A percentage of the job? A token amount to establish good will.

I personally favour a 10 percent referral fee but I don't know if that will be a goer.

Cheers Don

Thanks
2 replies

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kenmichaels 11 years ago

OIC ... i was waaay off, sorry man.

Do you know who Claude Whitacre is?

I am pretty sure he can help you get what you want. Shoot him a PM
I don't know his prices, or if he is willing to work with everyone or not.

But, i watched a video presentation on what he did, and from
what i saw, what he does would pay off in a much better then you
buying leads every week.

In a nutshell it is a long term inbound lead plan, set up right.
The way he does it, it knocks your competitors out of the equation.
You become the goto guy for your niche in your area.

I really like Claude, so i hope this doesn't come off as me being a shill
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Claude Whitacre

11 years ago

Originally Posted by donza

Hi Ken,

I think you misunderstood my question. I'm buying leads for my own business, a stone tile and decorative concrete restoration business. I have only just started up and I am exploring various "low cost" ways to generate business.

The company I contacted is like a one stop shop for property maintenance. Their site is very professional and I believe only someone with knowledge about lead generation sites would suspect they are a lead generation site.

The way I see it working is they will add my service, which they do not presently offer, onto their site. When someone asks for that particular type of work to be done they will pass the lead onto me.

As I have no idea of the quality of the leads how much should I pay? Nothing until I establish their value? A percentage of the job? A token amount to establish good will.

I personally favour a 10 percent referral fee but I don't know if that will be a goer.

Cheers Don

The problem with any kind of website, is that there is only one per Google page. I always advise clients to be listed multiple times on Google's page one search results. To do this, you need to have visible content from several online sources. The content has to give information, lead to a phone call, and be on a highly ranked website. (to show up highly in searches)

It's a lot more work than setting up a lead generation website, but it sure works to pull in the local leads. And it also pushes those pesky competitors off the first page.

After I teach audiences how to do everything, they generally just want it done for them. This idea really only works for local businesses. And brick and mortar businesses get the best results.

If you have any questions, you can PM me or ask here.

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YellowGreenMedia

11 years ago

Yeah you can see when it is a real business or when it is a lead generator, the big email box and the flashy design, the phonenumber everywhere are often dead giveaways.

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kenmichaels

11 years ago

Originally Posted by YellowGreenMedia

Yeah you can see when it is a real business or when it is a lead generator, the big email box and the flashy design, the phonenumber everywhere are often dead giveaways.

IMHO, we have 100's of complete BS wso's to thank for that.

The idea is solid. Heck the premise creates millionaires.
But the monkey see, monkey do attitude dilutes things pretty bad.

great premise, shitty execution.

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YellowGreenMedia

11 years ago

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

IMHO, we have 100's of complete BS wso's to thank for that.

The idea is solid. Heck the premise creates millionaires.
But the monkey see, monkey do attitude dilutes things pretty bad.

great premise, shitty execution.

I guess sometimes they could have their uses, but if you look at the average site of a local service provider you will see that these sites are plain, a bit dull perhaps, like a brochure... but those are the sites that pull in the leads, not these WSO cookiecutter lead gen themes... imho

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kenmichaels

11 years ago

Originally Posted by YellowGreenMedia

I guess sometimes they could have their uses, but if you look at the average site of a local service provider you will see that these sites are plain, a bit dull perhaps, like a brochure... but those are the sites that pull in the leads, not these WSO cookiecutter lead gen themes... imho

YUP. absolutely. The other ones that pull the best are real sites, with real info
about the niche, with real actual non spun, non glamorous updated stuff.
Ones that do open loops, pre qualify and present solutions OTHER then calling.

Ones that say hey... if you don't get it .. call or email me, I will help.

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RedShifted

11 years ago

Originally Posted by YellowGreenMedia

I guess sometimes they could have their uses, but if you look at the average site of a local service provider you will see that these sites are plain, a bit dull perhaps, like a brochure... but those are the sites that pull in the leads, not these WSO cookiecutter lead gen themes... imho

I would have to say this isn't true. Or maybe its just the niches I'm looking at.

If I were to paste all the sites on page 1 for "kitchen remodeling nj", you'd see an awful lot of FANCY sites. I actually linked 5 sites in my last post but the last site froze my browser and crashed it.

So as far as the "average" local service, I believe the real truth is many of them are trying to look like "big fancy" corporations. I also know in my conversations with various business owners, a lot of them are always saying "how can I make my site look fancier or more corporate"?

And they ALREADY HAVE fancy sites.

But as far as dull sites pulling more leads, I 100% agree.

My own "trick" is to use lots of white. I don't like a mix of dark and bright colors that have a deep contrast. Its too distracting. I also like using squares and no fancy oval shapes or anything. I think the best goal someone can have is to "infuse google" into their sites. I currently have 3 different lead gen sites, and the plainest one, with the most white, the simplest design, pulls the most leads. Then I have another site that incorporates a lot of different shades of blue. Some navy blue, some sky blue, even some black, and even though that site ranks higher, its bounce rate is ridiculously high.

I think the fact here is that on a subconscious level, a person can easily feel manipulated just by your design. If you have a stark contrast, if you have crazy sliders that blink and glow like they're radioactive, people will feel manipulated. They won't trust the site. They might think "damn, thats a beautiful site", but it will still give them a bitter feeling inside.

Its actually the same thing with salesman. Anything that can come off "overdone" or "contrived" will only serve to create more resistance / objections.

-Red

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visimedia

11 years ago

lead generation tool should be less than $500 I think. 1 tool if you use it wisely you can make profit from it and reinvest in the higher level of lead generation tool.

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Scotty Bee

11 years ago

Originally Posted by visimedia

lead generation tool should be less than $500 I think. 1 tool if you use it wisely you can make profit from it and reinvest in the higher level of lead generation tool.

What tool is that?

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kenmichaels

11 years ago

Originally Posted by visimedia

lead generation tool should be less than $500 I think. 1 tool if you use it wisely you can make profit from it and reinvest in the higher level of lead generation tool.

He wants to sell leads, to buyers NOT brokers, nor compile / scrape them for calling or DM.

But just in case i am wrong, YES you can compile data and sell it as a lead
for about .01 to .05 cent(s) a name.

THAT is the bottom, and i mean bottom of the barrel, and takes waaaaaay more effort then you
might think. BECAUSE, the buyers only want FRESH. ie ones NOT in their database.

and if you sell those type of lists, your reputation precedes you. List brokers,
well the ones on the up and up, who provide quality .. the ones that everybody knows...
they wont have anything to do with you. They will black ball you faster then you can say
"Skippy peanut butter"

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shockwave

11 years ago

Donza,

I happen to be in the local leadgen business, some of which is affiate marketing and some is strict leadgen.

You can find other threads here that ramble on about lead generation for home services contractors as well has get feedback from other contractors on different forums.

If you want an idea of what you should be paying for "stone. tile and decorative concrete restoration and maintenance" leads, a good place to start would be to see what other online lead generation services are charging. One of the notorious ones is HomeAdvisor (formally Service Magic). They generate leads and then sell them to usually 3-4 different contractors (depending on the niche/location).

So, let's take a look at what they do/did charge for leads in 2010 according to their Lead Fee Schedule (see attached pdf - you'll notice there are different categories/sub-categories), but in general:

* Stone Restoration & Polishing (in almost every category) = $9-$11 per residential lead / $15-$17 per business lead.

The reason so many contractors despise this kind of service is because most "consumers" are tire kickers looking for price, not ready to buy yet, don't answer the phone, don't return calls...etc - there are a million excuses WHY contractor don't like it. Oh, and did I mention you typically have to compete with 3-4 other contractors from just this one lead company alone, not to mention Craigslist and other websites.

As the Contractor, you have to be realistic about your closing ratio and sales ability too. In the end, YOU have to sell the lead.

The benefit of going with an independent lead generator (assuming they know what they are doing) is that you will typically get "exclusive" leads. Sure you might pay a little more per lead too. OR you could take the "rent/lease the website for a flat-fee per month" route as well.

I would also agree with Claude, in local leadgen (especially in the contracting trades) you gotta blast it from every angle - and yes, it is a lot of work. I recommend LeadGen Site, Video Marketing, and Craigslist as a good combo but there are certainly other ways to do it too.

- Shockwave

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donza

11 years ago

Originally Posted by shockwave

Donza,

I happen to be in the local leadgen business, some of which is affiate marketing and some is strict leadgen.

You can find other threads here that ramble on about lead generation for home services contractors as well has get feedback from other contractors on different forums.

If you want an idea of what you should be paying for "stone. tile and decorative concrete restoration and maintenance" leads, a good place to start would be to see what other online lead generation services are charging. One of the notorious ones is HomeAdvisor (formally Service Magic). They generate leads and then sell them to usually 3-4 different contractors (depending on the niche/location).

So, let's take a look at what they do/did charge for leads in 2010 according to their Lead Fee Schedule (see attached pdf - you'll notice there are different categories/sub-categories), but in general:

* Stone Restoration & Polishing (in almost every category) = $9-$11 per residential lead / $15-$17 per business lead.

The reason so many contractors despise this kind of service is because most "consumers" are tire kickers looking for price, not ready to buy yet, don't answer the phone, don't return calls...etc - there are a million excuses WHY contractor don't like it. Oh, and did I mention you typically have to compete with 3-4 other contractors from just this one lead company alone, not to mention Craigslist and other websites.

As the Contractor, you have to be realistic about your closing ratio and sales ability too. In the end, YOU have to sell the lead.

The benefit of going with an independent lead generator (assuming they know what they are doing) is that you will typically get "exclusive" leads. Sure you might pay a little more per lead too. OR you could take the "rent/lease the website for a flat-fee per month" route as well.

I would also agree with Claude, in local leadgen (especially in the contracting trades) you gotta blast it from every angle - and yes, it is a lot of work. I recommend LeadGen Site, Video Marketing, and Craigslist as a good combo but there are certainly other ways to do it too.

- Shockwave

There is a lot of good advice in your reply and I appreciate the time you took. I've never seriously looked at getting work from large scale lead generation companies because it's not worth competing against multiple lowballing competitors for the type of jobs and clients you get on those sites
The way I see it that nine dollar lead would actually cost 1600 dollars.

Each onsite quote would take two hours including travel time etc
Half of the customers would be dreamers
I'd be no better at closing than my 3 competitors
This means out of every eight quotes I would only get one job and it would take me 16 hours of work to get it
I value my time at 100 dollars an hour.

As for your, and Claude's, advice about a multi-pronged approach to web based marketing. I appreciate where your coming from but I've pretty much decided the web is not where I should be focusing my marketing. Instead I will devote my energy to offline marketing. The reason I came to this conclusion was partly based on the volume of searches for my keywords. There are very few. Also I already knew when people want something done to their stone they don't generally use the web instead they ring their tile layer/supplier and ask for a referral.

Now before anyone jumps up and down about me not appreciating the power of the web as a marketing medium. I do understand it's value. But I"m a one man business. I have limited time. and capital. and I have decided a box of doughnuts, and a friendly chat with the staff at the local tile shop is going to do me more good than ten dollars spent on a ppc campaign and a stilted conversation on linkedin.

Cheers Don

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shockwave

11 years ago

Originally Posted by donza

There is a lot of good advice in your reply and I appreciate the time you took. I've never seriously looked at getting work from large scale lead generation companies because it's not worth competing against multiple lowballing competitors for the type of jobs and clients you get on those sites
The way I see it that nine dollar lead would actually cost 1600 dollars.

Each onsite quote would take two hours including travel time etc
Half of the customers would be dreamers
I'd be no better at closing than my 3 competitors
This means out of every eight quotes I would only get one job and it would take me 16 hours of work to get it
I value my time at 100 dollars an hour.

As for your, and Claude's, advice about a multi-pronged approach to web based marketing. I appreciate where your coming from but I've pretty much decided the web is not where I should be focusing my marketing. Instead I will devote my energy to offline marketing. The reason I came to this conclusion was partly based on the volume of searches for my keywords. There are very few. Also I already knew when people want something done to their stone they don't generally use the web instead they ring their tile layer/supplier and ask for a referral.

Now before anyone jumps up and down about me not appreciating the power of the web as a marketing medium. I do understand it's value. But I"m a one man business. I have limited time. and capital. and I have decided a box of doughnuts, and a friendly chat with the staff at the local tile shop is going to do me more good than ten dollars spent on a ppc campaign and a stilted conversation on linkedin.

Cheers Don

1. Sounds like you actually understand ROI - and that is GOOD! You might be suprised how many one-man-shows have no clue, especially in the contracting trades.

2. More importantly, you understand your target. And you are absolutely right, not every business is well suited for internet lead generation.

The first thing I always recommend to any business is keyword research. It helps to see if there is really any demand for your product/service online before spending a bunch of money on a website, seo, blah...blah..blah. I've seen a lot of companies get burned by hiring someone to build a big, fancy website and do a ton of SEO, get involved in Social Media, Craigslist...and a bunch of other "online" stuff and thus pissed away a bunch of money.

Otherwise, you could use "online marketing" with the expectation that it is just simply more exposure for your business and may not always prove to show positive ROI for the investment.

For me, it's all about setting realistic expectations about what you get for your money.

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TrumpiaTim

11 years ago

Pay per lead would be ideal with the ability to not pay for "fraud" leads

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shockwave

11 years ago

Originally Posted by TrumpiaTim

Pay per lead would be ideal with the ability to not pay for "fraud" leads

Yes, it would. That too, takes us down another path and leads to yet even more questions....

Using the Home Services Contractor as an example:

What does the Contractor define as a "fraud" lead?
What does the Lead Generator define as a "fraud" lead?

If, by implication, you mean a "fraud" lead being a lead in which the Contractor can't get a homeowner to call him back, return an email, make a decision to buy right now....etc - is that a really a "fraud" lead?

Would the Contractor be willing to pay more $$ per lead for what has now essentially turned into Lead Qualification? This would be a scenario in which the Lead Generator calls the homeowner, qualifies them and has them live on the line and transfers them over to the Contractor. As you can see, this requires more time, and thus, justifies a higher $$ amount per lead.

I think RedShifted uses this as part of his business model and seems to be quite happy with the results. Personally, I don't have the time to follow-up and qualifiy leads, so I only go for the raw lead generation model.

Thanks
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vksheilds

11 years ago

Originally Posted by shockwave

Yes, it would. That too, takes us down another path and leads to yet even more questions....

Using the Home Services Contractor as an example:

What does the Contractor define as a "fraud" lead?
What does the Lead Generator define as a "fraud" lead?

If, by implication, you mean a "fraud" lead being a lead in which the Contractor can't get a homeowner to call him back, return an email, make a decision to buy right now....etc - is that a really a "fraud" lead?

Would the Contractor be willing to pay more $$ per lead for what has now essentially turned into Lead Qualification? This would be a scenario in which the Lead Generator calls the homeowner, qualifies them and has them live on the line and transfers them over to the Contractor. As you can see, this requires more time, and thus, justifies a higher $$ amount per lead.

I think RedShifted uses this as part of his business model and seems to be quite happy with the results. Personally, I don't have the time to follow-up and qualifiy leads, so I only go for the raw lead generation model.

A non relevant leads or fraud leads just an disadvantage of going. I appreciate a term that you shared with us like raw lead generation model that create hug gap in mind before going with any lead generator tools

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mckennabrowny

11 years ago

Personally I have never had a good experience with Lead Gen. I feel like they all say the same thing about how quality their leads are, but then when I've called the leads the people are angry as they have ben called to death.

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YellowGreenMedia

11 years ago

Originally Posted by mckennabrowny

Personally I have never had a good experience with Lead Gen. I feel like they all say the same thing about how quality their leads are, but then when I've called the leads the people are angry as they have ben called to death.

That is because you bought a list from a broker i guess, the leads you generate true lead gen sites are fresh and unique and targeted, the best you can ever have

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Jeannie Crabtree

11 years ago

Don, even though you have decided to go the offline route, I would suggest that you make sure that your website converts. It is the basics, which you might all ready know - That it has good search engine optimization on the pages and a call to action. Make the phone number easy to find.

Why I say that is many who can design websites don't know anything about seo, or getting leads and customers.

People do go to the web to do research and to find the business phone number. I had a local business directory in one town that would get 60+ searches a month for a particular business. I have taken calls and sent them on to the business. (The business wanted nothing to do with my directory or me, but I send their customers to them anyway...).

As well, if they see some testimonials from happy customers, it helps.

Just some thoughts. Hope it all works out well for you.

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vksheilds

11 years ago

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Lead Generation,

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