How Do You All Put Up With This?

11 years ago

Did you tell him how what he had was crap? Or did you show him how what he had was good and how you could make it better?

If a guy is owning a small business like that he normally makes less than I make as an employee. The business is status, ego, and passion.

I don't know what happen but based on what you said here I would guess you said something that lowered that ego. He said things to save face in front of you but later in his mind built up walls, about how great his current stuff is because he did it.

You need to make them feel like they are geniuses and that hiring you is among the best decisions they ever made.

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Aaron Doud - Sales & Success

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Arzak

11 years ago

I've been in a situation similar to this, but with a wholesaler I've previously purchased products from (I was trying to ORDER MORE). He has some of the biggest online stores for his niche and I knew he was ignoring me because I contacted him through another email.

So what I did was ask if everything was alright and if there were any problems just simply let me know. If there were any possible small issues, I apologized for them in case (e.g. changes to the order = inconvenience) and mentioned that I wanted to continue with our business relationship. Just don't address the fact that you're being ignored. I sent several emails; I don't really remember what I initially sent, but in the end what I mentioned above got me my response and we resolved everything. I think the main reason I didn't give up was because I already had buyers waiting for me to purchase the products.

Maybe he got in touch with that other marketer? You could say something like, "Hey, I'm not sure if you've been getting my messages or perhaps you've just been busy, but just let me know what you think about what we spoke about. If you're still interested, great! If not, simply let me know anyhow!" or something else to try to get a response. Then if you want to persist if he responds, you can perhaps reason with him if he explains (or just ask).

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Climb Online

11 years ago

I don't put up with it, I fire the prospect, move onto the next on my list.

It's amazing the number of business owners who's world is collapsing around them that refuse the help. I don't think it is necessarily about money either.

Ego gets in the way, and they can't / won't allow someone to come in with solutions to turn things around.

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Claude Whitacre

11 years ago

Originally Posted by TheBigBee

I primarily work with independent sales organizations on marketing stuff. But whenever I see an opportunity to move in...

I stopped at a restaurant recently. What drew me in? A HANDWRITTEN sign, that highlighted the fact they were serving a dish I love. Cool. I'm in.

I see that the manager is in the process of receiving a marketing presentation. The guy came prepared, so by all indications, I knew this was not a cold call. I think; "this is great! let me get my Warrior on!"

So, I sat, and waited. I waited some more. As soon as the presentation was over, I move in. With enough follow up, I'm eventually having lunch with the owner and get his cell phone number.

What proceeded to happen is something I am befuddled by.

They have NO SITE, NO SIGNAGE, crap menus, and their business appears online as a spot that existed back when I was in high school.

Owner understands these are problems and states his commitment to making sure the chance the restaurant succeeds are rooted in just fixing these small things. Easy sale! Though much smaller than I'd like...

I followed up once every other day and I got the "let's talk soon" spiel over and over again.

Then he goes ice cold. Ignores text, phone calls, and e-mails. Meanwhile I stop by and speak with the manager who doesn't understand why the owner won't move on these things as most of his pay comes from a portion of sales...

This is the weirdest situation I've ever seen in my life... I don't sell / market locally, but heck when I see an oppty I'll take it. Have you guys ever experienced something like this? Situations where you deal with a business owner who knows that to not have the basics, signage, website, etc. is akin to going into an uzi fight with a butter knife?

I'm not clear on this; Did the owner buy from the other guy? (in the first presentation you saw)
Did you make any sale at all?
Did he agree to buy?

Knowing these things would help.

Claude

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TheBigBee

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

I'm not clear on this; Did the owner buy from the other guy? (in the first presentation you saw)
Did you make any sale at all?
Did he agree to buy?

Knowing these things would help.

Claude

Claude,

The manager was the guy receiving the presentation. Not quite sure if it made it to the owner. Once I got to the owner I thought I was golden. No money was exchanged, and while there was no formal "I am going to buy from you" statement - he gave pretty strong / clear buying signals.

I should also note that he has a THRIVING plumbing business. Really really thriving...

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Aaron Doud

11 years ago

Originally Posted by TheBigBee

Claude,

The manager was the guy receiving the presentation. Not quite sure if it made it to the owner. Once I got to the owner I thought I was golden. No money was exchanged, and while there was no formal "I am going to buy from you" statement - he gave pretty strong / clear buying signals.

I should also note that he has a THRIVING plumbing business. Really really thriving...

That could be part of it right there. What he is doing now is working well so why change? Also he might actually be struggling with too much business but fear hiring more people.

If you are personally making $100k (round number) and if you double your staff you could make $150k the question is would you? if you don't need or want that kind of money the answer is often no. The risk vs reward isn't enough for them to hire more people.

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Mwind076

11 years ago

Originally Posted by TheBigBee

I followed up once every other day and I got the "let's talk soon" spiel over and over again.

Then he goes ice cold. Ignores text, phone calls, and e-mails. Meanwhile I stop by and speak with the manager who doesn't understand why the owner won't move on these things as most of his pay comes from a portion of sales...

Claude,

The manager was the guy receiving the presentation. Not quite sure if it made it to the owner. Once I got to the owner I thought I was golden. No money was exchanged, and while there was no formal "I am going to buy from you" statement - he gave pretty strong / clear buying signals.

I should also note that he has a THRIVING plumbing business. Really really thriving...

Just from these few statements you made here is what I see that went wrong...and without knowing if you did a few other things, I may be wrong.

1) The "other presenter" was meeting with the manager - he either never made it to the owner, or he did and his offer/pitch/pricing was better or he just beat you to the punch.
2) The manager may agree that his marketing sucks...but if he got you to walk in there, maybe he doesn't see a real need - was the place packed at lunchtime? Is he going under? Is he just old school and is happy with the amount of customers he has? Did you do your job and show him what you can do to get him MORE customers?
3) If he gave "pretty strong/clear buying signals" why did you not sell him? Did you present a price? Did you tell him you were going to come back tomorrow at 3 pm with a proposal? Did you ask him if there was anything holding him back from committing and signing? You dropped the ball.
4) Why did you call him "every other day" and take that blow off? Call him once, or GO BACK IN and talk to him face to face. You just bugged the crap out of him and he was too nice to tell you he wasn't interested... so he ignored your calls, texts, emails. Also, by contacting him all 3 ways, you look totally desperate for a sale.
5) His thriving plumbing business shows that he knows what he's doing, maybe he just doesn't want to focus on the restaurant...that's not your problem.

All of this is again, my opinion, but without the whole story we can't know for sure if you dropped the ball, but the signs lead to yes.

It's all something you can learn from though!

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nyk24

11 years ago

Originally Posted by TheBigBee

Claude,

The manager was the guy receiving the presentation. Not quite sure if it made it to the owner. Once I got to the owner I thought I was golden. No money was exchanged, and while there was no formal "I am going to buy from you" statement - he gave pretty strong / clear buying signals.

I should also note that he has a THRIVING plumbing business. Really really thriving...

Hey well done for trying - I never waste my breath talking to someone unless it's the owner.

Unfortunately 80% of business owners are complete idiots - they work in their business and not on it.

10% get lucky they have a busy business loads of referrals via word of mouth things are going great.....if you watch Gordon Ramsey's Kitchen nightmares you will know what I mean - The restauranteur did well for a few years and then boom...no more customers and he can't figure out why.

The above two businesses are just a waste of your time just move on mate.

Now the final 10% are smart they advertise on google, local radio, local paper, they are always looking at ways to improve their bottom line. They know that advertising works - you need to be going after these and not the people who are always saying "I trried advertising in the paper but it didn't work."

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TheBigBee 11 years ago

Too many strong insights here to multi-quote you all. You all make really good points.

They first presenter presented a "sky high" price in the eyes of the manager. After careful research, etc. I was able to beat the prices, set my number, and made an offer to throw in a website as a bonus. $1,000 for a two signs + Website. Meanwhile they had been quoted $2,500 for 3 signs.

He did have his daughter call and question my "bona fides" shortly after I started this thread... It was rather amusing, so at this point I could give two craps about the sale and laid into her; "Ma'am, I deal with companies with much larger marketing budgets than your dad. When I walk in to a place in my community and see it clearly about to fail, and I know I can help, I take action. The money I may make off your dad after expenses would barely cover my monthly Starbucks habit." I know, this was a very D-Bag statement / comment, but I really was offended by the fact that she would call and question me on his behalf when he's the only restaurant in a dense restaurant area without proper signage, and a website.

I think Aaron's comment was correct regarding ego. I am pretty direct. I wasn't condescending or insulting but made it clear that in 2013, not having signs, your menu online (free), and a website was business suicide...

It turns out his mom owned the place many moons ago (under a different name), and he never set out to get into the restaurant business. I have a feeling that Aaron was right + this is just a little "pet project / status symbol."

When I did ask him about any challenges he was facing in the plumbing business he stated it was going well. He was telling the truth because very rare is there a day I do not see his vans coming to or going to a job. He said this verbatim; "my plumbing business is fine, my focus is to bring this place up now."
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payoman

11 years ago

Yeah...This REALLY annoyed me when I was starting out. But I think we all know the reason these owners don't take action when they have so many obvious problems...

Well, it's usually 1 of 2 things I believe :

1) They don't equate success of their business with the problems you are mentioning. My parents are guilty of this (they run a business). They always LOVE pointing out that 'sales reps who come by are saying how 'quiet' it is' or 'the phone just isn't ringing, can't do anything about that, it's just quiet'. When I say "well, why don't you hire a cold caller? or try different marketing? or focus on the website?" they just like to blame the economy, or the time of year etc. It's just the old 'ignorance is bliss' type mentality.

or 2) Things just aren't bad enough to motivate them to take action. They perceive that improving signage or changing their website just isn't worth it, because hey, things will probably just get better on their own.

My 2 cents anyway.

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sethczerepak

11 years ago

While I wasn't there' I'd say the problem was you didn't qualify him, you just qualified how bad his business needed you. Those are two totally different things. In a way, a business that's poorly marketed throws up a red flag that the owner might be a cost minded person rather than an investment minded person.

(The video below explains it)

That's the first thing to do, qualify the person and find out if they "get it," then decide if it's worth your time.

Transcendent Negotiation Part 3:How to Diffuse...

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Rearden

11 years ago

Frame it on your office wall:

"You Can't Fix Stupid."

Then, right next that frame, make sure to also frame:

"Always Be Prospecting."

Also, a verbal commitment is not equivalent to ink on paper. AKA, talk is cheap.

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Voasi

11 years ago

If you haven't been working with offline clients for a while yet, you may not know this, but it's true:

"You don't need to be smart person to own a business."

Lots of businesses make daily mistakes that continue to drive their business into the ground. Sometimes it's "big moves" the drive it quickly into the ground. Sometimes it's just small things which take much longer for the business to crash and burn. Sometimes they're just completely lucky and it's "right time and right place".

Either way, all you can do is follow-up. That's why you'll hear marketers say "Money is made in the follow-up" and this is one of the reasons why.

Specifically, in your case with a restaurant, they're working on very slim margins as is. They can be difficult to pull the trigger if they're not very profitable.

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kenmichaels 11 years ago

Originally Posted by Voasi

Either way, all you can do is follow-up. That's why you'll hear marketers say "Money is made in the follow-up" and this is one of the reasons why.

You should note Marketers, advertising people say that.

NOT sales people.

That is a big important distinction in my book.

Marketers want the message in front of people over and over and over and over and ad swap ... and over

So the sales team can do there job, which is get the sale with the least amount of resistance.

A lot of off liners are trying to be marketers AND salespeople.

Two completely different skill sets, requiring different approaches.
But they are similar enough for new people to get confused and try to
blend the process.

which, more often then not is a recipe for disaster
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How Do You All Put Up With This?

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