What do you charge a local client for a 5 page website?

165 replies
Let's just say someone comes to you and asks you to build a 5 page website for their local business.

As an example, it's a pizza shop.

How much would you charge them and why?
#charge #client #local #page #website
  • Profile picture of the author Marty S
    A local pizza shop will have an enormous amount of marketing challenges due to being massively out-spent by national brands. A 5 page website ain't gonna do squat for them, except possibly appease the owner's ego.

    Thus, I would give them the website for absolutely nothing - on the condition they enter a 1 year social media, SEO and coupon marketing plan that I manage for them.

    If they do not want to do that, then I would convince them that a website is NOT what they need right now, but instead a well optimized Google+ Page and FB Fan page. I would charge $250-$500, with the thought of basically using the work for a portfolio/training/reference.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8028567].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author TheLinkMaster
      Seriously, I would charge $99 and then offer add-ons such as videos, SEO and other stuff. Make it easy for them to start.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8029142].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Huskerdarren
      Originally Posted by Marty S View Post

      A local pizza shop will have an enormous amount of marketing challenges due to being massively out-spent by national brands. A 5 page website ain't gonna do squat for them, except possibly appease the owner's ego.

      Thus, I would give them the website for absolutely nothing - on the condition they enter a 1 year social media, SEO and coupon marketing plan that I manage for them.

      If they do not want to do that, then I would convince them that a website is NOT what they need right now, but instead a well optimized Google+ Page and FB Fan page. I would charge $250-$500, with the thought of basically using the work for a portfolio/training/reference.
      Disagree due to overly generalized response. Where I live, the best pizza is the local one with 3 stores. They run TV ads but NEVER offer any coupons or discounts other than a daily special written on a chalkboard inside the store. They are that much better than any national brand and they are full pretty much full all the time. Weekends are a long wait.

      Their website is really nice and functional and easily worth $2000 as Aaron suggested. I'd throw in the Facebook and GPlaces with the cost of the website since that stuff is basically nothing to put together. t's all about what the owner needs. Each case differs.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8029268].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Eddie Spangler
        Originally Posted by momtraders View Post

        I never really charge for such small jobs like a 5 page site.
        It undermines my business and my integrity.
        When my hours start racking up is when I kindly say pay me.
        Originally Posted by Huskerdarren View Post

        I'd throw in the Facebook and GPlaces with the cost of the website since that stuff is basically nothing to put together. t's all about what the owner needs. Each case differs.
        This undervaluing of worth is almost sickening.
        Not charging for a 5 page website undermines the business and your integrity?
        A well done GPlaces page is nothing to put together? Yeah if you are just filling in blanks but to do it correctly including adding the videos and doing some optimization does take a fair amt of time.

        No wonder people complain that small biz owners are not valuing these services, the people offering them feel the same way:confused:
        Signature
        Promise Big.
        Deliver Bigger.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8029293].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Marty S
          Originally Posted by Eddie Spangler View Post

          This undervaluing of worth is almost sickening.
          For me Eddie - and maybe because I have owned a restaurant before and understand the real cost in money, time and family, that I also know how to appeal to small business owners like this. In fact, a long term, affordable monthly marketing strategy will prove to earn me much more over time. I am not devaluing anything at all, but rather helping them build a business. They feel they get a great deal for a website, I earn a loyal, long term paying client. Now keep in mind - I am totally referring to small local shops - as referred to in the @OP, normally where the owner is doing "shifts" everyday.

          In my experience, the only time a mom n pop restaurant will ever spend $2g on a website is when they first buy a place and still have some budget. Give them a few months before they realize they could have gotten a much better deal and see where you stand as a service provider. You see, I've been there - on both sides.

          Now this is rather my wheel house, because to me one of the easiest sells right now online, is to find a 2 to 5 year old over-priced, over-hyped flash-based website and ask that small business owner how things are going?
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8029377].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author kpmedia
      Originally Posted by Marty S View Post

      A 5 page website ain't gonna do squat for them, except possibly appease the owner's ego.
      I completely disagree.
      If you're in NY, sure, lots of competition. If you're in Bucktooth, Iowa, then it's going to be fine.
      Of course, even a good site in NY that's 5 page can be fine.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8051784].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author momtraders
    I agree 100% with Marty S. I would offer them the site for free and them upsell them on the backend.
    I never really charge for such small jobs like a 5 page site.
    It undermines my business and my integrity.
    When my hours start racking up is when I kindly say pay me.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8029155].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author mmiys
      Originally Posted by momtraders View Post

      I agree 100% with Marty S. I would offer them the site for free and them upsell them on the backend.
      I never really charge for such small jobs like a 5 page site.
      It undermines my business and my integrity.
      When my hours start racking up is when I kindly say pay me.
      I'd be inclined to hand over a site with a contract as well...but a paid for door opener puts someone into a funnel so I understand the model as well. I would put the $500 non-custom price on the website, but then offer a package deal that includes the website and offers an even bigger value with the website included. Customers like choices..I've found 2 choices is better than three.

      What bothers me about what Momtraders said is that it associates trading dollars for hours. You can offer great value even without any hours..think outside the box a bit.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8108913].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Aaron Doud
    I will disagree with what was said above for a few reasons.

    1. Adding it as a bonus to a package is great (when done right). But that means you have to sell them on the package. Selling the smaller item as a way in is easier most of the time. Notice how many people use the small sale like the WSO to bring you into the funnel? There is a reason all the big names do this..... it works.

    2. Since it is "free" it loses value in their eyes. You want to build up the value of everything you offer. Free can be dangerous but it depends on how and what you are selling. It can work as a bonus like I mentioned and others have suggested but you have to sell them completely on the other idea than offer it as added value.

    3. How big of a website does everyone think a pizza place needs? Yeah if you want to do online ordering (which could be an upsell) it will take a lot but most mom and pop pizza places only need a few pages with one of those being a digital menu. Offer the solution that works not the ultimate solution.

    As for a basic 5 page site. Depending on what you do I would say it should sell for $500 to $2,000 plus reasonable monthly maintenance. That kind of pricing is fair to both businesses.

    Now depending on what solutions you can provide to your clients you can offer any number of other services. The site is your way in. Your way to build the relationship needed for them to trust you. What else you offer could be anything from SEO to direct mail coupon campaigns. The key is are you helping them get more customers and also helping them make more money from their current customers by getting them to order more often? If one or both of these are true and your provide a good ROI they would be silly to not listen to you and take you up on other offers.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8029206].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Marty S
      Originally Posted by Aaron Doud View Post

      As for a basic 5 page site. Depending on what you do I would say it should sell for $500 to $2,000 plus reasonable monthly maintenance. That kind of pricing is fair to both businesses.
      Yeah... not. Sure for bigger businesses maybe, but a $2,000, 5 page website for a local pizza shop is just lala land. I could follow you into one of these shops and get your contract smoked (that is, if you could ever find a pizza shop that would pay $2g) in a matter of minutes by replacing it with a long term monthly fee for what I stated above - and a significantly more profitable and trustful relationship for years to come.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8029251].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author DABK
        Why is a local pizza shop necessarily a small, broke outfit?

        I know what you're saying and agree that a lot of pizzerias in my neighborhood would fit what you're saying. But there are a couple of local pizza shops that do not. One has 2 websites, one for the delivery side, one for the eat-in side.

        Originally Posted by Marty S View Post

        Yeah... not. Sure for bigger businesses maybe, but a $2,000, 5 page website for a local pizza shop is just lala land. I could follow you into one of these shops and get your contract smoked (that is, if you could ever find a pizza shop that would pay $2g) in a matter of minutes by replacing it with a long term monthly fee for what I stated above - and a significantly more profitable and trustful relationship for years to come.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9175546].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author momtraders
    Wow not only la land but COMPLETE rip off. Once the customer realizes that you are going to over charge them for a 5 page site, you will lose credibility FAST!

    I can build a 5 page site in IDUNNO like 1 hour or less. Completely original design, ready for social interaction ect. You mean to tell me your time is worth $500/hr?

    I work with some large design companies all over my local area, Im talking big well known names that are constantly interacting with local businesses face to face and NEVER would one of them charge $500 -$2000 an hour. You might as well call the client a moron to their face.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8029290].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author momtraders
    [DELETED]
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8029301].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author DaniMc
      Originally Posted by momtraders View Post

      And and just to put icing on the cake, me and hubby run two local businesses, we know what is happening in the brick and mortar part of the world and guess what... we barely keep the lights on, and have since the economy tanked. So yeah, no well deserved business person should be treaded on like they are idiots.

      Brick and mortar business car lot and mechanic shop doing business 11+ yrs.
      With your attitude, it is no wonder you are struggling.

      The best companies in study after study focus on providing more value rather than a lower price. They are often the most expensive in the market. They are also the most stable and viable businesses over the long term.

      Seriously, how can you be OK with struggling when I can guarantee you have competitors who are charging much more than you and are not struggling at all? You are undervaluing an effective website, and you are likely undervaluing your other businesses as well.

      I don't understand people who wear struggling as if it is a badge of honor. It is not. Success is a badge of honor.
      Signature
      Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8029378].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author digichik
      Originally Posted by momtraders View Post

      And and just to put icing on the cake, me and hubby run two local businesses, we know what is happening in the brick and mortar part of the world and guess what... we barely keep the lights on, and have since the economy tanked. So yeah, no well deserved business person should be treaded on like they are idiots.

      Brick and mortar business car lot and mechanic shop doing business 11+ yrs.
      A local pizza shop will have an enormous amount of marketing challenges due to being massively out-spent by national brands. A 5 page website ain't gonna do squat for them, except possibly appease the owner's ego.

      Thus, I would give them the website for absolutely nothing - on the condition they enter a 1 year social media, SEO and coupon marketing plan that I manage for them.

      If they do not want to do that, then I would convince them that a website is NOT what they need right now, but instead a well optimized Google+ Page and FB Fan page. I would charge $250-$500, with the thought of basically using the work for a portfolio/training/reference.
      MomTrader perhaps your businesses are suffering because you don't charge enough and are trying to compete on price, instead of offering a solution to bring more customers through the door. I don't know what kind of websites you are doing that only take an hour to put together. I takes me that long to find images that will send a message to the viewer, and impact their subconscious. You are not delivering much value if you can build a 5 page site in an hour, thus I guess your fee should be cheap.

      While any business owner can build a website, most business owners have no idea how to build a website that converts, and is a marketing machine for their business. Those that understand this are willing to pay me to get it done for them. They understand the return on their investment is great.

      Some of us build websites with SEO built into the site -- making sure the copy is right for SEO, making sure the images are optimized with the proper tags, making sure it has the right title, description and keywords. Making sure certain elements in the site are set up for optimum conversion.

      Thus, if I charge $1500-2000 for a basic 5 page website, my client is getting a marketing tool not just cute or pretty web pages. I do the things necessary to help it rank and convert -- turning visitors into customers.

      I guess this is the difference between a web designer and a marketing consultant.

      As for it being 'la la land' to get these fees, I guess it is for the both of you, because that is what you believe. I on the other hand get these fees and more, consistently.

      For you newbies reading this, the points that Aaron Doud made are golden.
      Don't be afraid to ask for the money, you will get it if you know you are worth it.

      For those who don't value their time and want to work at their own business for less than minimum wage, devalue yourself and carry on...

      I have been design in websites for 15 years and I still can't do a good 5-page one in an hour, just wondering how you manage
      Signature



      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8029419].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author momtraders
    Im just saying I refuse to straight rip someone off because they are not hip to the IM lingo.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8029312].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author JohnRussell
      Originally Posted by momtraders View Post

      Im just saying I refuse to straight rip someone off because they are not hip to the IM lingo.
      You can design a custom website the customer is happy with in an hour? How about I pay you $100 an hour then and I'll go sell some sites...
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8029317].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author momtraders
    LOL... @ JohnRussell
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8029319].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author JohnRussell
      Originally Posted by momtraders View Post

      LOL... @ JohnRussell
      Honestly, you don't see a correlation between your offline businesses that are struggling and your low fees for websites?

      How can you really offer anything of value that would actually help the customer for such low fees?
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8029323].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Eddie Spangler
    If I buy the oil and filter can I come by your shop and have your guys change it out for free?
    It wont take you but a few minutes.
    Signature
    Promise Big.
    Deliver Bigger.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8029343].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author momtraders
    [DELETED]
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8029368].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author DaniMc
      Originally Posted by momtraders View Post

      Honestly we dont ever charge the going rate, because news flash, no one has the money...
      Wow. Why is it called the "going rate"??? Because most people charge it. That is what is is worth!

      Charging less means you have less to promote with. To pay quality employees with. To compensate when things go wrong. Undercharging guarantees you missed opportunity.

      It does not help you, it hurts you.
      Signature
      Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8029389].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Anthem40
      Originally Posted by momtraders View Post

      Honestly we dont ever charge the going rate, because news flash, no one has the money... seriously.... However we do have mechanics that have to get paid, and we do have business overhead...

      Now, just to give you a real life example, used car business, we where actively selling 5-7 cars per day. Today's economy is very different. We went through the hell of going from those sales to seeing one sale a day and cringing, then when 10 sales per month was the bottom we thought for sure our business was done... but no folks it has gotten worse... and we fear it will only get worse, so don't ever let someone blow smoke up your @ss about how things are getting better. You bet your bottom dollar I have done alot of work for free or beyond what I ever thought would be... I remember once upon a time where $150/hr was my average.

      In doing work to help out other businesses, it helps me in the long run.

      Business is very different then 10 yrs ago.
      Im not trying to blow pretty colored smoke up anyone's behind, and trust me web design, web site creation is 100% my passion.. BUT the game has changed, and no real service provider is charging 2k for a 5 page site, because if they are, well I worry for the mental stability of the business owner they sold to.
      There are plenty of business owner's that charge 2k for a website and plenty of business owners that can more than afford the investment.

      Other businesses are using you if you are giving away work for free that you should be charging for. How many cars have you given away to other businesses to help them out? I am going to guess none.

      You have a perspective problem and it is clearly a major contributing factor to why you fear (know) that things are getting worse for you.
      Signature
      95% of IM'ers have great relationships with clients who also advertise offline and with other people. Stop missing out on that cash and leverage into it. PM me if you are an established marketer and want to find out how.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8029394].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author momtraders
    Good question John,

    No, I feel I see things very clearly, I have a picture from both sides, online and off.

    I'm just saying businss owners are not retarded, and yes you can promise them the moon and the stars, but sales are hard to come by because that is where the real world is...
    So when the moon and the stars never comes because you can't provide it, no one can, then what do you do?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8029385].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author momtraders
    Dan, I am the provider of all the local web development in and around my area.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8029397].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Marty S
      Originally Posted by momtraders View Post

      Dan, I am the provider of all the local web development in and around my area.
      Apparently we are surrounded by wealthy warriors who charge local pizza shops $2g for a website. :rolleyes: Who knew?
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8029412].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author JohnRussell
        Originally Posted by Marty S View Post

        Apparently we are surrounded by wealthy warriors who charge local pizza shops $2g for a website. :rolleyes: Who knew?
        That's not what I am saying (can't speak for anybody else).

        I'll tell you this though...doing a free website for a local pizza shop is doing them a disservice. They need marketing help (most do anyway). If you can help them and it costs $2,000 then if you really care about their welfare you'll help them find $2,000 to pay you.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8029425].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author DaniMc
        Originally Posted by Marty S View Post

        Apparently we are surrounded by wealthy warriors who charge local pizza shops $2g for a website. :rolleyes: Who knew?
        A simple marketing plan can add 20k or more annually to a small business. So, you go ahead and sell a commodity website that brings them no value.

        I sell my clients money. No doubt about it. I'm not in the design business. I'm in the customer getting business.
        Signature
        Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8029436].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author digichik
          Originally Posted by Dan McCoy View Post

          A simple marketing plan can add 20k or more annually to a small business. So, you go ahead and sell a commodity website that brings them no value.

          I sell my clients money. No doubt about it. I'm not in the design business. I'm in the customer getting business.

          Read it and LEARN!!!
          Signature



          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8029445].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Marty S
          Originally Posted by Dan McCoy View Post

          A simple marketing plan can add 20k or more annually to a small business. So, you go ahead and sell a commodity website that brings them no value.

          I sell my clients money. No doubt about it. I'm not in the design business. I'm in the customer getting business.
          Originally Posted by JohnRussell View Post

          doing a free website for a local pizza shop is doing them a disservice. They need marketing help (most do anyway). If you can help them and it costs $2,000 then if you really care about their welfare you'll help them find $2,000 to pay you.
          I invite you to read my first response in this thread. Not sure we disagree.

          Originally Posted by Marty S View Post

          A local pizza shop will have an enormous amount of marketing challenges due to being massively out-spent by national brands. A 5 page website ain't gonna do squat for them, except possibly appease the owner's ego.

          Thus, I would give them the website for absolutely nothing - on the condition they enter a 1 year social media, SEO and coupon marketing plan that I manage for them.

          If they do not want to do that, then I would convince them that a website is NOT what they need right now, but instead a well optimized Google+ Page and FB Fan page. I would charge $250-$500, with the thought of basically using the work for a portfolio/training/reference.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8029448].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author DaniMc
            Originally Posted by Marty S View Post

            I invite you to read my first response in this thread. Not sure we disagree.
            No...we definitely disagree. You are severely undervaluing what a good website can do for a business.

            Originally Posted by Marty S View Post

            A 5 page website ain't gonna do squat for them, except possibly appease the owner's ego.
            Originally Posted by Marty S View Post

            Yeah... not. Sure for bigger businesses maybe, but a $2,000, 5 page website for a local pizza shop is just lala land.
            Originally Posted by Marty S View Post

            In my experience, the only time a mom n pop restaurant will ever spend $2g on a website is when they first buy a place and still have some budget. Give them a few months before they realize they could have gotten a much better deal and see where you stand as a service provider.
            Signature
            Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8029466].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Marty S
              Originally Posted by Dan McCoy View Post

              No...we definitely disagree. You are severely undervaluing what a good website can do for a business.
              Then I suppose this applies to you as well >

              Originally Posted by Marty S View Post

              Yeah... not. Sure for bigger businesses maybe, but a $2,000, 5 page website for a local pizza shop is just lala land. I could follow you into one of these shops and get your contract smoked (that is, if you could ever find a pizza shop that would pay $2g) in a matter of minutes by replacing it with a long term monthly fee for what I stated above - and a significantly more profitable and trustful relationship for years to come.
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8029477].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author DaniMc
                Originally Posted by Marty S View Post

                Then I suppose this applies to you as well >
                Never. Gonna. Happen.

                My friend
                Signature
                Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8029494].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author JohnRussell
            Originally Posted by Marty S View Post

            I invite you to read my first response in this thread. Not sure we disagree.
            You don't think a 5 page website could be an integral part of a pizza places marketing plan?
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8029487].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author MaxwellB
          Wow....

          That was my expression as I read this thread.

          See at the end of the day this is the problem with certain people on this thread..


          YOU CAN'T CLOSE THEM...you cant sell, I can tell because I've been in the sales industry for years, sales management, I can tell the mentality of people who can't get what they're worth because they can't sell.

          And when they can't sell they make excuses why they have to work for sh** to close deals...the economy, the competition blah blah...point is your making excuses because you can't ask for what everyone else knows it's worth.

          And maybe you don't see the worth, maybe you can't see the value...and you should just get out of the game because your only hurting your clients by providing no value.

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8029529].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Marty S
            Originally Posted by JohnRussell View Post

            You don't think a 5 page website could be an integral part of a pizza places marketing plan?
            Absolutely I do - re:

            Originally Posted by Marty S View Post

            Thus, I would give them the website for absolutely nothing - on the condition they enter a 1 year social media, SEO and coupon marketing plan that I manage for them.
            (pssst - that is a marketing plan)

            But all by itself and the designer walks away with $2g (yeah right). No, not for a local pizza shop. It will just sit there and you will spend the next few months avoiding eye contact with that pizza shop owner who is working 70 hours a week while you're sipping a Starbucks across the street.

            He would be much better off with >
            Originally Posted by Marty S View Post

            a well optimized Google+ Page and FB Fan page. I would charge $250-$500, with the thought of basically using the work for a portfolio/training/reference.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8029562].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author JohnRussell
              Originally Posted by Marty S View Post

              Absolutely I do - re:



              (pssst - that is a marketing plan)

              But all by itself and the designer walks away with $2g (yeah right). No, not for a local pizza shop. It will just sit there and you will spend the next few months avoiding eye contact with that pizza shop owner who is working 70 hours a week while you're sipping a Starbucks across the street.

              He would be much better off with >
              OK...maybe we do agree. Except I wouldn't give them the website. I think you could close just as well when charging something for the site too.
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8029569].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author DaniMc
              Originally Posted by momtraders View Post

              LOL... Ok Dan and Max, let's see you sell a 5 page site to a local business owner for 2k. Document it and I will believe it.

              When you insult their intelligence, apologize for me ok?
              First, there is no way in hell I would ever put my client on the WF and then talk about what I charged them.

              Second, a 2k sale...really? It's that hard for you to believe? That is kind of a floor price for me. The absolute lowest I have ever, ever gone is $800 for my mother-in-law! If I didn't love her so much, I would have charged at least $1,500!

              Even back in my early days of advertising, selling for a coupon mailer, I would sell my customers on $650 per MONTH for four months ($2600) for a basic ad. That was back when $2600 was a lot more than today.

              Seriously, you gotta spend some dough to make some dough. Pizza shops with no dough to spend wont make much dough to sell.

              Originally Posted by Marty S View Post

              But all by itself and the designer walks away with $2g (yeah right). No, not for a local pizza shop. It will just sit there and you will spend the next few months avoiding eye contact with that pizza shop owner who is working 70 hours a week while you're sipping a Starbucks across the street.
              I've never had to avoid eye contact with anyone I've done business with. And I don't sit around drinking Starbucks. I work my ass off for myself and for my clients.

              Success brings more success.
              Signature
              Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8029596].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author DaniMc
      Originally Posted by momtraders View Post

      Dan, I am the provider of all the local web development in and around my area.
      You must be in a really, really small town or out in the country. You are the ONLY web developer?

      The point is that a website brings in much, much more than 2k worth of revenue annually.

      If you are providing a website that is not even worth 2k to them, you are not really doing them a service at all. YOU are the one who is ripping them off.

      A website should be a part of their strategy to get more customers, and as such it is a vehicle for money for them. If the site you build does not help make their cash register ring, then that is the problem.

      If you want to do them a real service and don't just take their cash and walk away, build them something they can use, and will be a real part of their business. To do that, you gotta spend some money and/or time. Putting together a fully custom website in 1 hour makes me LOL.
      Signature
      Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8029415].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author momtraders
    Anthem,

    My perspective is not screwed up, all the hype about what marketing is really all about is screwed up...

    My attitude is not bad, it is realistic, there is nothing wrong with not looking through rose colored glasses.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8029401].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Anthem40
      Originally Posted by momtraders View Post

      Anthem,

      My perspective is not screwed up, all the hype about what marketing is really all about is screwed up...

      My attitude is not bad, it is realistic, there is nothing wrong with not looking through rose colored glasses.
      Your perspective is clearly wrong. You are giving away your services for free. That is not what businesses do.

      The economy has bounced back, and you weren't smart enough to adapt. That's why your web business is dead and your car business is on the verge of death.

      But your experience with dead and dying business clearly trumps everyone's experience here that is trying to knock some sense into you and get you to stop playing the victim. Be an entrepreneur and adapt to the new business as usual. You said yourself you have realized business isn't the same as it was. ADAPT.

      (PS. you aren't the only poster that has a brick and mortar)
      Signature
      95% of IM'ers have great relationships with clients who also advertise offline and with other people. Stop missing out on that cash and leverage into it. PM me if you are an established marketer and want to find out how.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8029433].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author momtraders
        [QUOTE=Anthem40;8029433]

        The economy has bounced back, and you weren't smart enough to adapt. That's why your web business is dead and your car business is on the verge of death.

        REALLY, it has bounced back has it? What Country do you live in?
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8029482].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Anthem40
          [quote=momtraders;8029482]
          Originally Posted by Anthem40 View Post


          The economy has bounced back, and you weren't smart enough to adapt. That's why your web business is dead and your car business is on the verge of death.

          REALLY, it has bounced back has it? What Country do you live in?
          The US.
          Signature
          95% of IM'ers have great relationships with clients who also advertise offline and with other people. Stop missing out on that cash and leverage into it. PM me if you are an established marketer and want to find out how.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8029486].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Colm Whelan
      Originally Posted by momtraders View Post

      Anthem,

      My perspective is not screwed up, all the hype about what marketing is really all about is screwed up...

      My attitude is not bad, it is realistic, there is nothing wrong with not looking through rose colored glasses.
      The trouble with a screwed up perspective is that you don't KNOW it's screwed up. Over here we're have been in continuous recession for 5 years. Unemployment is running at .... wait..... 14%. Yet today I closed a deal for a 10 page WP site with GP and FP setup for €2000 AND an ongoing email\sms campaign @ €250pm. Yesterday I closed a straight 8 page redesign on WP for €1400. This is about average every week now with few €500 change-the-header template sites each week to boot. Onsite SEO is all that's included. Not one of my clients feels hard done by. They see the value because I see the value and can communicate the value.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8029631].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author digichik
        Originally Posted by Colm Whelan View Post

        They see the value because I see the value and can communicate the value.
        Another golder nugget. Thank you.
        Signature



        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8029695].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author RimaNaj2011
          Or you can just stay away from pizza shops and go after businesses who have real money to invest. No one is going to pay $2,000 for a website. But I have no problem charging that much if it's included with a marketing plan that will make the 'website' into a money making 24.7 machine.
          Signature

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8029824].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Anthem40
            Originally Posted by RimaNaj2011 View Post

            Or you can just stay away from pizza shops and go after businesses who have real money to invest. No one is going to pay $2,000 for a website. But I have no problem charging that much if it's included with a marketing plan that will make the 'website' into a money making 24.7 machine.
            People pay that much all the time. I know a LOT of business owners who have paid 5-10k for a website. You had better believe there have been lots sold for much higher multiples than that.
            Signature
            95% of IM'ers have great relationships with clients who also advertise offline and with other people. Stop missing out on that cash and leverage into it. PM me if you are an established marketer and want to find out how.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8029941].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author RimaNaj2011
              Originally Posted by Anthem40 View Post

              People pay that much all the time. I know a LOT of business owners who have paid 5-10k for a website. You had better believe there have been lots sold for much higher multiples than that.
              I didn't really mean literally. I meant if you sell just a site without selling it's real value that it's going to bring you money.
              Signature

              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8029972].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Aaron Doud
            No one is going to pay $2,000 for a website? There are industries where you wouldn't find anyone serving your niche that would make one for that little.

            When we redid our website we provided the content and paid around $2,000 for it. And we pay around $400/month for inventory management/hosting. And that is about $1000 less per month than they were paying before I was hired. Numbers may be a bit off as I don't pay the bills and don't remember for sure.

            But we have a specific need that most places will not so I understand why our hosting cost if higher then most would pay.

            Here is the way I view it. Let's use $100/hr as industry standard. So a $2,000 website should take around 20 hours to create. If I am a business owner used to spending $10k plus for a two to three day TV media blitz do you think I really have a problem paying you for quality? These guys have spend these amounts and above before. Hell their utility bill is likely more then $2,000 (been years since I managed a restaurant and looked at a restaurant P&L so I am basing that on memory).

            We've paid several grand to have trainers come in before. Hell for the months of Dec and Jan we paid something like $2,000 for dealer wide access to some training videos by a guy who spent a bunch of time telling Zig Zigler stories and claiming them as his own (I appear to be the only one who noticed it).

            If you are providing quality companies will pay. And if you can't provide quality you are just giving the whole industry a bad name.

            Do people here even find out ad rates for competing media?
            Do you know what businesses have as expenses?

            Next time you are interviewing a restaurant prospect do this little math problem. Total revenue times 25%. That number will be big. That or more is likely their food cost. So just the food they bring in to serve is costing that much. That doesn't cover the utility costs and labor costs to make it.

            Wonder why you are not closing more business? Maybe the prices are so low they expect crap from you. Once you get into managing a business you learn real quick that free and cheap are the two most expensive words in the world.

            These guys are used to having phone bills that are several hundred dollars a month. They are used to buying newspaper ads that cost hundreds if not thousands. They are used to making tens of thousands of dollars a year for TV ads. They are used to paying several thousand dollars a month in rent. They are used to paying $10,000 for used restaurant equipment. And if they are a franchisee they are used to paying about 7% of revenue to the home office.

            Do you think these guys will blink twice at paying a fair price to an expert who will delivery quality?
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8029981].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author tonylogan
            $2000 for the website, but the important part is always the recurring income. $100 for hosting and support is mandatory to close the deal and I also try to sell PPC and SEO plans to bring cutomers.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8032441].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author ColdCallCommando
            I charge $700 for a website with $50 per month hosting and maintenance plan. I split the payments into three easy payments of $233. When they object and say why are you so expensive I say.

            "Listen you can get a free website...I mean you could wear sweatpants and free t-shirts given to you by some company. But you don't...and the reason why you don't is because you know that wearing free t-shirts and one sized fits all sweatpants isn't going to get you anywhere in life you wanna go...IN FACT, it will pull you backwards from any big goals because no one will take you seriously...Well the same is true for your website. These websites cost money just like a nice suit costs money, but just like a nice suit this website will work to increase your business."

            I can't believe people are happy to just give away a free website and charge "$30" per month in hosting. You will be waiting for a long long time before that pans out into any real income.

            The website is an entry level product anyway. I routinely close pizza shops for $3,500+ in services, and I collect all that money and deliver my services in under 2 months typically.

            -The Cold Call Commando
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8245204].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author momtraders
    DigiChik,

    I appreciate your input. I really do. I deal with alot of different people all day every day. First I deal with the regular customers for cars. Our cars are always sold at an affordable price, but when you have people coming in saying the lost their jobs, they can barely put food on the table, you see they have kids and you see a family struggle. It hits home. Then I deal with customers that don't care how much it takes to get their car fixed, because well it is their lively hood. Even these people are never over charged, because we care about our customers, even in their darkest moments, afraid they will not make it to work, not having money to buy another car, we do not pump them for more. We give them a price they can manage, and that pays for our time and parts. Then I deal with many web design owners. These people are great, they care about their customers and they want to provide them the best. They charge a nice price, and when my time and effort is put to the task I am rewarded greatly.

    I am simply saying to charge someone 2k for a 5 page site seems a little greedy to me. Considering there are only a million tools that can get a site built in a short while. That customer that you plan on banking big on, is trying to keep their doors open... I would rather showcase my skills, get the client a nice website, and then tell them all the cool stuff they can achieve with their sites. IE upsell them on ecommerce packages, interactive communities, marketing services ect.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8029462].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author digichik
      Originally Posted by momtraders View Post

      I am simply saying to charge someone 2k for a 5 page site seems a little greedy to me. Considering there are only a million tools that can get a site built in a short while. That customer that you plan on banking big on, is trying to keep their doors open... I would rather showcase my skills, get the client a nice website, and then tell them all the cool stuff they can achieve with their sites. IE upsell them on ecommerce packages, interactive communities, marketing services ect.
      You are not being greedy if you charge someone $2000 for a website that brings them in, just say a measly $4000, you just doubled their money. There is no investment I know of that will give you a 100% return, not stocks, not gold, not a savings account, not most real estate deals. So again, re-evaluate your perspective.

      Unless you build a website that converts you are not showcasing any skill that will make them want to buy any of your upsells. Case in point, I re-designed a website for a client that was on page 22 of Google, with only onsite SEO, within 4 weeks it ranked #1 for his small town in a large metro area, his business increased by 50% and he was then a believer in SEO. He has referred me to other business owners every chance he gets.

      If you aren't building websites that convert then you are probably taking advantage of your clients, no matter how much or how little they pay you.
      Additionally, if they don't see new clients from the website, chances of you upselling any other services to them are probably nil.
      Signature



      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8029547].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author momtraders
    wow Anthem, what state?
    What type of brick and mortar biz do you run?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8029491].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Anthem40
      Originally Posted by momtraders View Post

      wow Anthem, what state?
      What type of brick and mortar biz do you run?
      I'm with an ad agency that has a footprint throughout the Midwest, into a bit of the West. Business has never been better for us, actually.

      Please at least consider what I have told you in this thread.
      Signature
      95% of IM'ers have great relationships with clients who also advertise offline and with other people. Stop missing out on that cash and leverage into it. PM me if you are an established marketer and want to find out how.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8029504].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author momtraders
    LOL... Ok Dan and Max, let's see you sell a 5 page site to a local business owner for 2k. Document it and I will believe it.

    When you insult their intelligence, apologize for me ok?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8029549].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author MaxwellB
      Originally Posted by momtraders View Post

      LOL... Ok Dan and Max, let's see you sell a 5 page site to a local business owner for 2k. Document it and I will believe it.

      When you insult their intelligence, apologize for me ok?
      $3495 is our base package for people that have nothing, even if they have some parts we do it all ...want to know what it includes

      1. A custom wordpress website, completely mobile responsive development
      2. Copy for all pages, seo optimized
      3. New logo, identity package (logo, letterhead, envelopes if they need it designed)
      4. A first page ranking on google for top 2 keywords (this is included in the package not for a monthly fee), it's to show them VALUE before they start paying for a marketing package.
      5. Some help if they need it making sure they are at least set up with the bare minimum with google plus local, more than that is a marketing package.


      See I'd rather sell something for 3-4k that has true value, focused on traffic, covers all bases with mobile, and seo optimized content...than a $250 5 page website that does nothing.

      Gross profit is about 2k per client, so while you do sites for free, or $250 or whatever you said, and spend a month selling 8 to make my 2k gross profit I do a couple a week...

      Again, this is why your businesses are basically dead

      I'm not insulting their intelligence, you just don't think like a successful business person.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8029947].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author DABK
      I don't build websites. However, today I had an appointment with a small business owner (kids party place). He's paid $2,000 for his site and is paying monthly fees too. The site is a flash site and works against him in terms of online visibility. It's got 12 or 13 pages.

      The guy I buy my pastries from paid $1,500 for a 5 page site.

      They bought beautiful sites (and both sites are, indeed, gorgeous to look at). They bought because they thought they'd get buyers. They both get some. Not enough to be happy with. But, enough that they are not firing the web designer.

      I don't know about the kid party place owner but the pastry guy's barely breaking even. He borrowed the money to get the site done.

      So, yes, people pay that kind of money for a site. And, yes, some of the sites are not worth the money (if value is based on the site's ability to help with or produce sales).

      Originally Posted by momtraders View Post

      LOL... Ok Dan and Max, let's see you sell a 5 page site to a local business owner for 2k. Document it and I will believe it.

      When you insult their intelligence, apologize for me ok?
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8033239].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Brent48
      Well Guys,....A very interesting debate with some very good points from both sides,but you are getting to involved in the value of the site!...The issue is giving good value for money
      and a good business proposition should be win win for both parties.
      I learnt many years ago that you should never prejudge what any thing is worth until you research all the angles....Look at the business model see what you could do with it,if it comes up with no value...pass. If you know that you can increase value by $2000.00 a month in sales you have a viable proposition! The charge for The website and the marketing plan should be 50% of the increase in sales $1000.00 with a ongoing servce fee of $700.00 per month. This is very fair and a win win for both parties.
      If you are not comfortable with the model and feel you are ripping them off,I would offer a a lease model. In this model the owner pays a $250...to $300 lease set up Fee and then you share the income on a 50% split bases.......this is my preferred model,
      another win/win and you keep the value of the syber real estate.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8069871].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author momtraders
    DigiChik, we are not talking about SEO services... We are talking about a 5 page website. Most likely built from wordpress, with a home page, contact us, services page ect.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8029554].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author digichik
      Originally Posted by momtraders View Post

      DigiChik, we are not talking about SEO services... We are talking about a 5 page website. Most likely built from wordpress, with a home page, contact us, services page ect.
      This is my point, if you are building a real, useful website, you will have to build SEO into it. If not, you are not providing any value to your client.

      Again, a website is a marketing tool. It doesn't matter how many pages it is. The function is to attract new clients, customers, leads-- translation profits to that business.

      If you are not providing a marketing tool for your client, you are taking advantage of them even if you are only charging $100.

      Whereas, if I charge a client $2000 for a high converting 5-page website that is doubling their annual revenue(because it took the time to build in the necessary elements for conversion), I am not taking advantage. I provided value for them. I brought their business more busine$$.

      Momtrader, I am getting the impression you don't really understand what the function of a website is and what it is suppose to do. If you did, you would understand what I, and many of the others in this thread, have tried to explain to you.

      Whats the saying -- "you can lead a horse to water..."
      Signature



      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8029595].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    Wow. Both sides of the coin in this thread.

    I lean towards studying the business and the market and offering
    the services that will bring them the best return on their marketing dollars.

    For a lot of pizza joints it might be just mobile and Google+, and images or video for Google page domination for city, state. One in my neck of the woods is fancier, seats about 150, and has live music every Friday, Saturday and Sunday, so they work
    website, Facebook, print advertising...

    I also lean towards charging enough to make your business viable. Which means separating your income from the business and charging enough to cover your business expenses, insurance, marketing advertising, taxes... as well as pay yourself well.
    (I say this for the benefit of newer offliners cause I don't think that stuff is covered enough.)

    Of course your rates are a qualifier so you are not doing the impossible and difficult, and missing out on serving other clients, as well as serving all clients very well.

    Dan
    Signature

    "If you think you're the smartest person in the room, then you're probably in the wrong room."

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8029556].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Sys4
    Some are discussing apples and others oranges - for profit and not for profit.

    If you're interested in advice targeted towards for profit enterprise, read Aaron's replies.

    If you're not running a for profit businesses, as some have indicated by their posts, ignore the advice being shared by the successful and continue to disburse your charitable giving as you see fit. Though... it'd probably be more charitable of you to refer businesses to a for profit firm that has the knowledge and profit driven incentive to give the businesses a better return on their investment and save yourself an hour.

    Note: I don't have a problem with loss-leaders. I don't even have a problem with someone stating that a fair price for THEIR work is free or below market value. I do have a problem when those that think free/cheap is fair compensation for THEIR work, voicing their silly opinions about firms that choose to let their clients and the market determine their pricing.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8033295].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author MrGardner
    I think that the smart decision would be to split test which appeals most to pizza shops. For example, offer 10 businesses the 5 page site with Google places optimization, and some SEO and a years maintenance for $499 and offer 10 the 5 page site for $99 with a monthly maintenance fee and optional Google places optimization and SEO as extras. Without experience I'd totally estimate that the 2nd could be more profitable and sellable to smaller businesses who might not want all the options.
    I was a small business owner and I got a few free consultations and made everything myself after I got a 1.5 all inclusive pitch.
    Like I said it might vary with the business, I think marketing the awesomeo 1500 could be profitable if the business is doing very well and the website isn't too good and does not have optimized Google places or SEO.
    I hope this helps someone
    Signature
    www.KraftyMarketingProfits.com
    Smart ok happy people who help eachother achieve :)
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8034729].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Sys4
      On what are you basing these numbers: local YP ad pricing, billboard rental, display newspaper or tv advertising cost, or something else?

      I know that in my area, Columbia, MO, that wouldn't pay for a month's worth of display newspaper advertising ($500 for 1 column inch/BW and that would be a complete waste of money for a pizza restaurant - they'd want color and inches to match the surrounding ads.) The annual contract discount rates don't even kick in until you reach $3000.

      Columbia Tribune 2013 Rate Card: http://archive.columbiatribune.com/A...tebook2013.pdf

      I could go on... and maybe talk about the ancillary cost of lighting up a billboard at night... but we're all marketing professionals and know this basic information - or we wouldn't be handing out advice on an internet marketing forum. Right?

      Originally Posted by MrGardner View Post

      I think that the smart decision would be to split test which appeals most to pizza shops. For example, offer 10 businesses the 5 page site with Google places optimization, and some SEO and a years maintenance for $499 and offer 10 the 5 page site for $99 with a monthly maintenance fee and optional Google places optimization and SEO as extras. Without experience I'd totally estimate that the 2nd could be more profitable and sellable to smaller businesses who might not want all the options.
      I was a small business owner and I got a few free consultations and made everything myself after I got a 1.5 all inclusive pitch.
      Like I said it might vary with the business, I think marketing the awesomeo 1500 could be profitable if the business is doing very well and the website isn't too good and does not have optimized Google places or SEO.
      I hope this helps someone
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8035160].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Jacobs22
    You guys have to understand if I buy milk for $3/L and the next poster buys it for $10/L (example) then you have to understand there is a difference.

    Also demand does not make the price, the demand can be very high and the offer high as well yet the value stays high in many cases. The people and their mentality combined with their locations, which is influenced by internet activity, has a big role to play in the price tag.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8036747].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Anthem40
      Originally Posted by Jacobs22 View Post

      You guys have to understand if I buy milk for $3/L and the next poster buys it for $10/L (example) then you have to understand there is a difference.

      Also demand does not make the price, the demand can be very high and the offer high as well yet the value stays high in many cases. The people and their mentality combined with their locations, which is influenced by internet activity, has a big role to play in the price tag.
      say what now?
      Signature
      95% of IM'ers have great relationships with clients who also advertise offline and with other people. Stop missing out on that cash and leverage into it. PM me if you are an established marketer and want to find out how.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8036831].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Sys4
      I think he was trying to say that demand doesn't determine price, but opened with an example of how it does influence price.

      In the Midwest, I expect to pay $3 and change for a gallon of milk. When I travel to Hawaii I'm not surprised to pay $9 for the same gallon of milk. It's basic supply and demand. Now, there are market anomalies. If I travel to Hawaii and visit the local military exchange, I expect to pay below the local prevailing cost of milk, because it's subsidized by the government.

      What some are trying to teach in this thread is that if you're under charging for your work, your subsidizing another business's marketing - you're paying for their milk.

      There are other factors that play a part in demand like: quality, delivery, time, etc. And that may be what he intended to say.

      @Jacobs22 - try this out You Are Here: Questions & Answers: Supply, Demand, Production Cost and Pricing

      Originally Posted by Anthem40 View Post

      say what now?
      Originally Posted by Jacobs22 View Post

      You guys have to understand if I buy milk for $3/L and the next poster buys it for $10/L (example) then you have to understand there is a difference.

      Also demand does not make the price, the demand can be very high and the offer high as well yet the value stays high in many cases. The people and their mentality combined with their locations, which is influenced by internet activity, has a big role to play in the price tag.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8036866].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author mulder68
    I have undersold my services in the past and suffered badly for it.

    In desperate times I have charged clients as little as £480 or $750 for a Joomla CMS site. Based on my daily rate of £160 or $750 per day that work out at only 3 days work. There is no way on earth a Joomla site with even just 5 pages of content takes only 3 days. But I have needed the money and wanted to guarantee the job.

    In most cases I have spent much much longer than 3 days on the job.

    I will now only settle for my daily rate multiplied by a genuine number of days to complete which is usually between 5 and 10 days depending on if it is a Wordpress, HTML, CMS etc

    Clients will take advantage of you at every given opportunity. Even if you are doing a website at a real low price they will expect more and more and more from you.

    "can you just do this, can you just do that" etc etc

    Even though I still need the work and the money I realise that there is often too much work and stress involved to settle for anything less than my going rate. You can end up working for peanuts if you're not careful.

    Unless I am charging a minimum of £800 ($1200) I will not entertain building anybody a website and if anybody wants to pay less than that then let them go to Wix or similar site builders and do it themselves.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8037195].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author 300SMG
    We offer a 3-page deal for $195 and that's all a local pizza shop or sandwich shop would need. That price is based on the fact that they agree to an annual hosting plan which is set at $120 for the year and throw in a year of domain name registration for free.

    Local shops will not try and compete with national brands, and they shouldn't, therefore, we simply optimize the website during creation and offer a maintenance package that includes monthly LOCAL seo as well social media promo for a nominal fee depending on frequency of their social media postings. That fee can be as low as $100 and as high as $1,000.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8037695].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Justin Says
    See.. the interesting thing here is that I have sold websites to clients in the past for around $200 and that helped sky rocket my profits, conversions, etc.

    In January of 2011 I offered my services below average and ended up making around $17,000 in a matter of days (not excluding expenses or anything).

    These website were all about 5 pages, keyword researched, optimized, included images, and graphics/header/design, etc. and took an average of around 45 minutes to 1 1/2 hour per build.

    I don't feel like I was underpaid for those projects because there were so many, but if it were on a single client basis where I only had a few clients every few weeks/months, then I can see why a higher price would make more sense.

    Just wanted to share my already existing experience with charging a low price (in what most consider low but I found as very rewarding and profitable).
    Signature

    My name is Justin Lewis, with Business Optimizer I've been in business for 6 years online with multiple six figure years, here are the tools that have helped me the most: Increase your reviews with this free Review Handout

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8041308].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author DaniMc
      Originally Posted by Justin Lewis View Post

      See.. the interesting thing here is that I have sold websites to clients in the past for around $200 and that helped sky rocket my profits, conversions, etc.

      In January of 2011 I offered my services below average and ended up making around $17,000 in a matter of days (not excluding expenses or anything).

      These website were all about 5 pages, keyword researched, optimized, included images, and graphics/header/design, etc. and took an average of around 45 minutes to 1 1/2 hour per build.

      I don't feel like I was underpaid for those projects because there were so many, but if it were on a single client basis where I only had a few clients every few weeks/months, then I can see why a higher price would make more sense.

      Just wanted to share my already existing experience with charging a low price (in what most consider low but I found as very rewarding and profitable).
      So you sold 85 websites at $200 each to make a total of $17,000??

      And you say that is not excluding your expenses? So how much did your business actually PROFIT from SELLING, MAKING, and SERVICING 85 clients???

      Call me stupid, or maybe I just think too big, I just don't understand your math.
      Signature
      Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8046040].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Justin Says
        Originally Posted by Dan McCoy View Post

        So you sold 85 websites at $200 each to make a total of $17,000??

        And you say that is not excluding your expenses? So how much did your business actually PROFIT from SELLING, MAKING, and SERVICING 85 clients???

        Call me stupid, or maybe I just think too big, I just don't understand your math.
        The profit from my specific business model is 75%, I put 25% into the expenses, which includes content, graphics, etc.

        So really my expenses were only around $50 per project.

        How do you not understand the math though? It took me about 45 minutes to 1 hour and a half to produce the websites.. and received a profit of around $140 per project. That equal out to more than $70/hr for the effort put into each project and I have 85 long term clients that many have since then ordered more websites, ordered coaching packages, and joined courses I run.

        It's great making big money from clients and I understand why some would want to, but wouldn't you love to have a large buyer list that you know will spend money if you are willing to help them?

        To me.. I'd rather have a big list rather than a few clients.

        If a few clients drop off, you've got to find more.

        But if you have a big list of paying clients, you are almost guaranteed (as long as you provide a helpful service to them) more sales.

        To me that's less work and more fun helping more people.
        Signature

        My name is Justin Lewis, with Business Optimizer I've been in business for 6 years online with multiple six figure years, here are the tools that have helped me the most: Increase your reviews with this free Review Handout

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8048453].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author DaniMc
          Originally Posted by Justin Lewis View Post

          So really my expenses were only around $50 per project.

          It took me about 45 minutes to 1 hour and a half to produce the websites.. and received a profit of around $140 per project....I have 85 long term clients that many have since then ordered more websites, ordered coaching packages, and joined courses I run.
          I am always polite on this forum. I have never once said this to anyone here but...

          That is complete and utter bull shit.
          Signature
          Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8048474].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Eddie Spangler
            Originally Posted by Dan McCoy View Post

            I am always polite on this forum. I have never once said this to anyone here but...

            That is complete and utter bull shit.
            What part?
            Signature
            Promise Big.
            Deliver Bigger.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8048547].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author DaniMc
              Originally Posted by Eddie Spangler View Post

              What part?
              Well...The part where his total overhead is $50 per site and gets it done in 45 minutes to 1 hour.
              Signature
              Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8048572].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author Justin Says
                Originally Posted by Dan McCoy View Post

                Well...The part where his total overhead is $50 per site and gets it done in 45 minutes to 1 hour.
                Edit: Before reading, note these are about websites I designed for either personal use or people wanting a website that gets them started.

                You've got to be kidding me.

                I'm not afraid to share what I did. It's a simple process, just takes experience.

                Overhead.

                - $25 for content
                - $10 for header
                - $5 per project goes towards overall expenses like Basecamp, keyword tools, etc.
                - $10 paypal expenses on average

                They pay for the domain & hosting and also go through my hosting affiliate link (an additional $50 - $125 if they do, but it's optional).

                Build.

                Prior to the build I put 10 minutes into keyword research using keyword tools that I pay for, send them the keywords + domain suggestions (unless they already have a domain). Once approved and they send me their hosting details I continue with the build.

                I build their website from scratch using the WordPress platform. Install a premium theme that I have a developers license with. Design a unique layout (which takes me about 5 minutes from experience), that's not joking... it just involves understanding of CSS and how to adapt to each niche. And of course add their content, optimize it, add an image, and organize the layout.

                Done.

                Time investment..

                Overall my time investment for each project is around 45 minutes to an hour and 30 minutes depending on the client and if I have to do additional research.

                If that's not clear as day.. I don't know what else to tell you. The point is that I have skills that I've trained myself to acquire and I use those skills to save people time.
                Signature

                My name is Justin Lewis, with Business Optimizer I've been in business for 6 years online with multiple six figure years, here are the tools that have helped me the most: Increase your reviews with this free Review Handout

                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8048596].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author DaniMc
                  Originally Posted by Justin Lewis View Post

                  You've got to be kidding me.

                  I'm not afraid to share what I did. It's a simple process, just takes experience.

                  Overhead.

                  - $25 for content
                  - $10 for header
                  - $5 per project goes towards overall expenses like Basecamp, keyword tools, etc.
                  - $10 paypal expenses on average

                  They pay for the domain & hosting and also go through my hosting affiliate link (an additional $50 - $125 if they do, but it's optional).

                  Build.

                  Prior to the build I put 10 minutes into keyword research using keyword tools that I pay for, send them the keywords + domain suggestions (unless they already have a domain). Once approved and they send me their hosting details I continue with the build.

                  I build their website from scratch using the WordPress platform. Install a premium theme that I have a developers license with. Design a unique layout (which takes me about 5 minutes from experience), that's not joking... it just involves understanding of CSS and how to adapt to each niche. And of course add their content, optimize it, add an image, and organize the layout.

                  Done.

                  Time investment..

                  Overall my time investment for each project is around 45 minutes to an hour and 30 minutes depending on the client and if I have to do additional research.

                  If that's not clear as day.. I don't know what else to tell you. The point is that I have skills that I've trained myself to acquire and I use those skills to save people time.
                  OK. Touche. $25 content and a $10 header. Got it.
                  Signature
                  Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8048633].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author Justin Says
                    Originally Posted by Dan McCoy View Post

                    OK. Touche. $25 content and a $10 header. Got it.
                    At least you get the point I'm not some screwball haha.

                    I get pretty feisty when people think I'm bs'ing.

                    And if you absolutely want to, think of reselling services from people who are on Fiverr.com, that's $5 for very cheap services.

                    In my opinion, so long as you are still putting work into the project and offering more value than just the people you outsource to on Fiverr, it's worthwhile.

                    I don't just go out there and purchase a header + content and say bye. Instead I purchase the header and content which I manually do the research into and then manually work on the rest of the project.
                    Signature

                    My name is Justin Lewis, with Business Optimizer I've been in business for 6 years online with multiple six figure years, here are the tools that have helped me the most: Increase your reviews with this free Review Handout

                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8048647].message }}
                    • Profile picture of the author DaniMc
                      Originally Posted by Justin Lewis View Post

                      At least you get the point I'm not some screwball haha.

                      I get pretty feisty when people think I'm bs'ing.

                      And if you absolutely want to, think of reselling services from people who are on Fiverr.com, that's $5 for very cheap services.

                      In my opinion, so long as you are still putting work into the project and offering more value than just the people you outsource to on Fiverr, it's worthwhile.

                      I don't just go out there and purchase a header + content and say bye. Instead I purchase the header and content which I manually do the research into and then manually work on the rest of the project.
                      No I get it. I've been in the marketing biz a long time. The discussion in this thread was about creating original designs and custom sites. If we are talking about a quick template and a header from fiverr that is another story. Personally, I wouldn't do that kind of work but to each their own.

                      You describe it a "cheap services" and that is a perfectly accurate description - "cheap."
                      Signature
                      Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8048657].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author CreekChub
                    Originally Posted by Dan McCoy View Post

                    OK. Touche. $25 content and a $10 header. Got it.
                    No. Definitely NOT Touche'. Read what you quoted above. I can tell you, from lots of experience, that less than 10% of projects go as smoothly as that. Just coordinating the project on your end takes more than 45 minutes.

                    Getting the client to take the time to OK keywords and domains? Setting up the domain? Hell, just having the client sign off on the site you whipped up in 45 minutes? Not a single change, right?

                    None of this even addresses the quality of the site that you put together? I don't care how experienced, fast, "good" - whatever analogy you want to use - you are at web design and development, you ARE NOT putting out something that even remotely looks good - much less original - in 45 minutes. Period.

                    Most of what I do is Wordpress. I found a great theme that is highly customizable, and I use it almost exclusively. I'm extremely familiar with it, and have systems in place from step 1 through completion. I spend way more than 45 minutes just looking at what their competition is doing.

                    You might be selling landing pages or simple template sites where you switch out a logo and change a background color in that time frame, but if you're trying to tell us that you are working with honest to goodness small business owners and making actual working web sites for these folks? Nope. I call bullshit.

                    EDIT - RE: your post above Dan...

                    That's the nail on the head. These are templates with no revisions from the customer. Quality aside, it could work in theory. In practice? 1 in 10 small business owners are happy with an initial concept. Fewer than that are 1)capable or 2)have the time to quickly and efficiently respond with basic needs for even a simple site such as logo, thoughts on keywords and domain, etc.

                    This is one of those posts that gets a lot of traction from newbs (and sells WSO's) who have no real world experience. The few of us actually working with real live business owners can spot it for what it is.
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8048678].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author SupplementTalk
                    Originally Posted by Dan McCoy View Post

                    OK. Touche. $25 content and a $10 header. Got it.
                    I think Dan has a little ego here and doesn't like when others have a different way of doing things. Why is is so hard to believe that a Wordpress site can be built in 1 hour. I can have a site up and running in less than an hour. Is it a custom CSS site, no. But you have to remember that clients are paying for the skill of putting together a website, adding the content, pictures, building the pages, dealing with hosting, domains and basically putting all of this together. This is called the web design trade. People pay $15 for a pizza that in raw materials only costs less than $5. At the same time, these people were paying $200 for a website that really only took $50 in raw material to build.

                    All Products have a market value attached to them. You are basically saying that you provide the "lexus" websites at more than $2000 each and Justin is basically providing the economical, low cost car.

                    All in all, out of the 9 clients that you build your website for, how much are you averaging per hour, is it more than $70 per hour? If so, please send me a training manual of how you are so amazing....lol. If Justin is making $70 per hour building lots of websites, thats more than most people make in this world per hour, he is doing something right.
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8233635].message }}
                    • Profile picture of the author DaniMc
                      Originally Posted by SupplementTalk View Post

                      I think Dan has a little ego here and doesn't like when others have a different way of doing things.
                      Well hello.

                      This has nothing to do with ego and I have no problem with people being different than me. I think if you check the link where you can read all of my posts, you will see that I try very hard to be respectful of different viewpoints.

                      I am only trying to lift people up. There is a lot more at stake than profiting from one or two websites. Undercharging starts a chain reaction that weakens a businesses entire capital basis.

                      At the same time, these people were paying $200 for a website that really only took $50 in raw material to build.
                      See, this has nothing to do with raw materials. The thing is, it takes a long time to learn to be really good at marketing. This isn't like making pizza at the local shop. Not even a similar product at all.

                      All that time invested in learning is worth something. Even more importantly, when you charge appropriately, you can deliver at a higher level and secure your future with that client.

                      Here is a very important thing to remember: Your product is competing with many other types of products for the clients money. When you lower your price, you are actually lowering the value of the items your client is deciding to buy in relation with your product.

                      For example - If your site is $200, they might decide to take their family out to dinner instead. A fairly trivial choice because the perceived value is so low. However, if your site $2,000 - they will be choosing between a new piece of equipment, a new sign, or a new website. The perceived value is much higher, therefore they are not as likely to just forget about what you are offering.

                      And really - the website is JUST as valuable to their business as that equipment or that sign. I have designed and installed a sign or two. The actual material is only a few hundred dollars. The skill and expertise to build it and mount it makes it worth thousands.

                      All in all, out of the 9 clients that you build your website for, how much are you averaging per hour, is it more than $70 per hour? If so, please send me a training manual of how you are so amazing....lol.
                      Um...yes. It isn't that amazing. You demonstrate value and then you deliver it. The inability to reach $70/hour in client work has more to do with YOUR perception of YOUR value. You don't need a manual. You need a better self-image.

                      I'm not saying that to be mean. You truly don't understand how valuable you are and how much you have to offer. You are worth so much more than $70/hour.


                      .
                      Signature
                      Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8233676].message }}
                      • Profile picture of the author SupplementTalk
                        Originally Posted by Dan McCoy View Post

                        Well hello.

                        You don't need a manual. You need a better self-image.

                        I'm not saying that to be mean. You truly don't understand how valuable you are and how much you have to offer. You are worth so much more than $70/hour.


                        .
                        Thanks Dan for your kind words. I guess I need to work on my self image starting now. Can I ask a question? Do you build custom websites/code? How long does it take you on average to build a clients website? What do you suggest to charge a Daycare, Landscaping company, Fitness Center? Lets stick to the 5 pager just for grins.
                        Maybe I need to start charging waaay more. I do provide this perceived value you speak of. I need to value myself now.
                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8233729].message }}
                        • Profile picture of the author DaniMc
                          Originally Posted by SupplementTalk View Post

                          How long does it take you on average to build a clients website? What do you suggest to charge a Daycare, Landscaping company, Fitness Center? Lets stick to the 5 pager just for grins.
                          Maybe I need to start charging waaay more. I do provide this perceived value you speak of. I need to value myself now.
                          I'm not a huge website guy. I'm more into marketing. I sell marketing services to my clients and they love it.

                          When I do design work, I don't do it myself. I'm not that great at it to be honest. What I AM great at is studying what makes a site convert and how it can contribute to the company's bottom line. Then, when my team builds a site, they do it with the guidelines I give them.

                          The thing is, there is a huge difference between working hourly and running a business. If you are selling the sites and then building them, you have just created another job for yourself. You gotta walk before you can run but it is important to use the time and talent of others so you can continue to add value at a higher level.

                          Once you have a team of people doing different aspects of the work, you simply MUST charge more. But - you deliver at a much higher level too because a writer is writing, a designer is designing, and an administrator is administering.

                          How long in hours does a site take? Well, it's really man-hours because it is spread across a team. How long does it take ME? I personally work maybe an hour running the whole project. I focus on the higher things like running the business and client satisfaction.

                          If you can deliver a high quality site that converts and has good copy, that is a real product with real value. $1,500 should be a good goal for you to work towards. You can't worry about how easy it is or how many people are doing it.

                          I got a few quotes for my nice stone patio. One was $5,000. One was $20,000 - same identical plans.

                          I got two quotes to have a gas line ran to the firepit on the stone patio...one quote was $3,500. One was $6,000.

                          In both cases, the company with the higher quote is much more well known. They have many, many more clients. They provide the best guarantees. You could say running a gas line is the same no matter who does it. You could say the pipe only costs $50.

                          But in almost all cases - the companies who charge the most are also the most loved and respected, have the most clients, and are in general more successful. Adding more value is FAR more important than having the lowest price.
                          Signature
                          Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
                          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8233774].message }}
                    • Profile picture of the author SupplementTalk
                      After reading through the entire thread I have come to this opinion:
                      I believe that an offline service such as providing a great website and marketing to a local business is worth some money. ($2,000 or more) However, the problem is that more and more people know how to build websites nowadays (otherwise known as uploading a wordpress template and adding content) and it is not quite the rare skill anymore. Yes, still few know code and can actually create websites from complete scratch. But why would you need to know this code anymore. Not when you have 100's of website companies that offer full developer licenses and reseller accounts for people "in the business of selling websites." The truth is that website companies promise custom designs and charge thousands of coin to these small businesses that really don't have that kind of money to experiment with a website. In reality, many times it is a complete rip off to the small business because the web design company just uses a pre-made Wordpress template and charges thousands for this.

                      There needs to be a balance of this and this is where offering lower priced websites can actually be of great value to the customer. Think about this, check out a premium Wordpress theme, the best of the best, costing around $100-$200. Match this up to a "custom" website that costs thousands of dollars. Do you really see a difference in quality? I don't.

                      To each their own, if you enjoy charging $2000+ to a small business for a website that takes hours to put together, then fine. If you are genuinely creating the website from scratch and it takes days to do the project, then I believe it is worth the high dollar spend. But be honest with yourself and charge what you think the value is of what you are offering. On the very flip side, "the price should be what the buyer is willing to pay." There is no right answer....lol.

                      Cheers
                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8233716].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Justin Says
            Originally Posted by Dan McCoy View Post

            I am always polite on this forum. I have never once said this to anyone here but...

            That is complete and utter bull shit.
            I totally don't get where you're coming from with that?

            Is it because I charged so little? Or is it because you don't believe websites can be built in less than an hour? Or is it because you just feel it's necessary to call someone out without any real proof?

            Building 80+ websites isn't as hard as it seems.. The only time I've ever had issues is when the client themselves don't reply to me or give me any direction of what niche they want to go into.

            But really the concept is simple. I build a simple website for my clients to help them get started. They are more than happy and in return I have had many become return clients. One even purchased more than 20 websites over the last 2 years.

            This of course is my opinion, but I find that more enjoyable.
            Signature

            My name is Justin Lewis, with Business Optimizer I've been in business for 6 years online with multiple six figure years, here are the tools that have helped me the most: Increase your reviews with this free Review Handout

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8048570].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author MaxwellB
      Originally Posted by Justin Lewis View Post

      See.. the interesting thing here is that I have sold websites to clients in the past for around $200 and that helped sky rocket my profits, conversions, etc.

      In January of 2011 I offered my services below average and ended up making around $17,000 in a matter of days (not excluding expenses or anything).

      These website were all about 5 pages, keyword researched, optimized, included images, and graphics/header/design, etc. and took an average of around 45 minutes to 1 1/2 hour per build.

      I don't feel like I was underpaid for those projects because there were so many, but if it were on a single client basis where I only had a few clients every few weeks/months, then I can see why a higher price would make more sense.

      Just wanted to share my already existing experience with charging a low price (in what most consider low but I found as very rewarding and profitable).
      There might be some backstory that I don't get because I'm not sure how your selling 85 websites in a matter of days.

      But lets use your example...if you were outsourcing you would have made about 8k and would have to manage 85 projects over a span of about a month...which is almost impossible. I know you said you did it yourself so you spend at least 85 hours probably over 1 month to build those sites....fine.

      We are saying we would rather sell 9 $2,000 websites or 6 or so $3,000 websites....working much less...managing much less....profiting much more...with less work and time.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8046568].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Justin Says
        Originally Posted by MaxwellB View Post

        There might be some backstory that I don't get because I'm not sure how your selling 85 websites in a matter of days.

        But lets use your example...if you were outsourcing you would have made about 8k and would have to manage 85 projects over a span of about a month...which is almost impossible. I know you said you did it yourself so you spend at least 85 hours probably over 1 month to build those sites....fine.

        We are saying we would rather sell 9 $2,000 websites or 6 or so $3,000 websites....working much less...managing much less....profiting much more...with less work and time.
        How is that impossible?

        Do you ever understand how website development is done? If you don't then you can't really comment to much on it.

        It's not as crazy and confusing as many think it is and there isn't a huge time investment that has to be in place.

        Many people work 40 hours a week, during that period I went ahead and worked 50 hours a week and enjoyed the hell out of it.

        I just don't get how you can say it's impossible if each project takes me 45 minutes to 1 1/2 hours.

        And even so...

        It's not about the money dude... it's about the experience. I needed web development experience so I took action. Now I can do the same type of projects in less than 20 minutes because I was able to gain experience from doing.

        I have to stress over and over, it's not about the money.

        Oddly though when I sold the package for $50, no one bought. Sold them at $100, only a few bought. When I sold them at $200 that was my highest converting sales point, so I just stuck with it.

        It's also what my clients told me to charge once I was finished working on my original projects.
        Signature

        My name is Justin Lewis, with Business Optimizer I've been in business for 6 years online with multiple six figure years, here are the tools that have helped me the most: Increase your reviews with this free Review Handout

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8048468].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Kayster13
    Never be afraid to charge what your product is worth. Be realistic, but also remember nothing of value is for free.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8042229].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Eddie Spangler
    I think the confusion in this thread is that Justin is selling niche sites for people who want to market affiliate offers and adsense. These are totally different than local biz websites and can be made much quicker.

    He wanted opinions originally on what a 5pg local site goes for because that is not his area of expertise. Then all the debating about value and what to charge started.
    Signature
    Promise Big.
    Deliver Bigger.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8048701].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author CreekChub
      Originally Posted by Eddie Spangler View Post

      I think the confusion in this thread is that Justin is selling niche sites for people who want to market affiliate offers and adsense. These are totally different than local biz websites and can be made much quicker.

      He wanted opinions originally on what a 5pg local site goes for because that is not his area of expertise. Then all the debating about value and what to charge started.
      Gotcha. If that's the case then I withdraw most of everything I said above (these IM'ers never want anything changed?) as it doesn't apply. Consider that my apology for calling "bull" Justin.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8048739].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Justin Says
        Originally Posted by CreekChub View Post

        Gotcha. If that's the case then I withdraw most of everything I said above (these IM'ers never want anything changed?) as it doesn't apply. Consider that my apology for calling "bull" Justin.


        I appreciate it haha.

        Yes, when it comes to these, the sites I was referrencing were websites that people wanted. I wasn't screwing anyone over.

        But just to be real... the same can be done with a local business. Many local businesses just want calls, new clients, etc. and if they can pay $200 for a website so they don't have to worry about it and that website is enough to help them get many more calls, clients, then it's definitely worthwhile.

        My original question was a "5 page website" though and that's exactly what these projects were. 5 pages with 500 words each, completely optimized, unique, and manually designed. I just have a fast design process because I've learned the skills it takes.

        I'm not saying I'm a genius at design, but I will say that simple usually works a hell of a lot better than crazy graphics.

        Either way though, most people here are saying $2,000+ for a website, which I understand. I charged 10x less and they likely received just near the same amount of work, just done faster from my experiences gained in the past 3 years.

        P.S. I don't buy anything from Fiverr. I have a graphic designer that I've made a great friend of and a content writer that does exceptional work and just charges me less because I buy in bulk. My work isn't considered "cheap" especially when there are people charging $2,000 for less. When I say I spend 1 hour and 30 minutes on a project that's 100% dedication, nonstop clicking, jumping screens, multiple screens, entering multiple things at once, having the content written beforehand and the header designed beforehand to place into my design. Above anything it's considered "affordable" and definitely goes above and beyond meeting their needs
        Signature

        My name is Justin Lewis, with Business Optimizer I've been in business for 6 years online with multiple six figure years, here are the tools that have helped me the most: Increase your reviews with this free Review Handout

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8049058].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author DaniMc
      Originally Posted by Eddie Spangler View Post

      I think the confusion in this thread is that Justin is selling niche sites for people who want to market affiliate offers and adsense. These are totally different than local biz websites and can be made much quicker.

      He wanted opinions originally on what a 5pg local site goes for because that is not his area of expertise. Then all the debating about value and what to charge started.
      You raise a good point. I forgot that Justin was the OP!!! So..it seems his outline was for the affiliate sites. I get it now.

      Justin - I thought you were saying you built 85 sites for local small business clients at $50 each. My apologies.

      I would avoid that approach with local business owners. Charge $1k, do good work, charge more per client because offline, the relationship and communication aspect takes much longer than with people who are trying to get started as affiliates.

      These business owners have a much higher amount invested and will expect a certain level of service and quality.
      Signature
      Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8048751].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Justin Says
        Originally Posted by Dan McCoy View Post

        You raise a good point. I forgot that Justin was the OP!!! So..it seems his outline was for the affiliate sites. I get it now.

        Justin - I thought you were saying you built 85 sites for local small business clients at $50 each. My apologies.

        I would avoid that approach with local business owners. Charge $1k, do good work, charge more per client because offline, the relationship and communication aspect takes much longer than with people who are trying to get started as affiliates.

        These business owners have a much higher amount invested and will expect a certain level of service and quality.
        And I would definitely agree. If it were for a business I would charge more, I was simply stating that it can be done, even if it were for a small business.

        If you owned a business and simply wanted your location, basic info, and phone # up on a website, would you want to pay $2,000?

        Many businesses that I've worked alongside really just want that and nothing else. Yes I might be offering a service that others could charge a high amount for, but I'm comfortable with getting paid whatever they are comfortable with. If that's $200, so be it, as long as they don't come back at me nonstop asking questions.

        If a business wants a lot of effort put into a project, then yes I'd charge more.

        But again, I'm saying a 5 page website. Usually 5 pages equals out to... homepage, about page, contact us page, legal pages, and reviews/testimonial page.

        If you want to go all out, that's totally okay. But many businesses are comfortable with something that simply helps them bring in more clients and don't want to have to invest $2,000 yet. Once they are comfortable with that and see the value behind it, then you can always say you'll do more for them if they signup for some type of payment plan.

        Just my thoughts.

        P.S. Again I'm not saying $200 is what a business is willing to pay, I'm just saying it's okay to charge low if that makes you happy and in my experience it makes me happy. Especially when they come back at me and express their gratitude by offering me free services, food, dinners, etc. and then contact their friends about it.
        Signature

        My name is Justin Lewis, with Business Optimizer I've been in business for 6 years online with multiple six figure years, here are the tools that have helped me the most: Increase your reviews with this free Review Handout

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8049072].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author DaniMc
          Originally Posted by Justin Lewis View Post

          If you owned a business...

          But many businesses are comfortable with something that simply helps them bring in more clients and don't want to have to invest $2,000 yet. Once they are comfortable with that and see the value behind it, then you can always say you'll do more for them if they signup for some type of payment plan.
          And here I thought we had patched everything up. :rolleyes:

          Here is the thing: you are guessing about something you don't know about. You are talking like you are teaching us something. Some of the people in this thread KNOW this business.

          I get it. You are used to dealing with new business owners or people who are dabbling in affiliate sites and online marketing. That is a totally different world and much of what you learned there will not translate to the real world. Not saying either is better or worse, but they are different.

          You are trying to teach fish how to swim.

          If you already had the answers, then why did you ask?
          Signature
          Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8049270].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Sys4
            Originally Posted by Dan McCoy View Post

            If you already had the answers, then why did you ask?
            I had that question entered into the quick reply after post #65, but then decided to take advantage of a root canal coupon I'd been saving - instead.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8049603].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author CreekChub
          Originally Posted by Justin Lewis View Post

          And I would definitely agree. If it were for a business I would charge more, I was simply stating that it can be done, even if it were for a small business.
          And now we're back to disagreeing...

          Originally Posted by Justin Lewis View Post

          If you owned a business and simply wanted your location, basic info, and phone # up on a website, would you want to pay $2,000?

          Many businesses that I've worked alongside really just want that and nothing else. Yes I might be offering a service that others could charge a high amount for, but I'm comfortable with getting paid whatever they are comfortable with. If that's $200, so be it, as long as they don't come back at me nonstop asking questions.
          Once again... the real world talking here. You might find a handful of folks who say "sure... $200? Throw that website thingy up against a wall and we'll see what sticks". The vast majority are either going to tell you to take a hike (because anyone with half a brain knows that you don't get anything of quality for $200) or you'll be saddled with folks who are going to try and milk you for everything they can. Both of those types exist in the real world, and in spades. Neither generate referrals.

          The truth? Business owners spend money. The real food cost alone in a small diner will exceed the cost of your $200 site by 7:30AM. Most small insurance agencies in the midwest spend 10X that on their office lease. Lawncare guys spend that much in fuel before most folks get out of bed in the morning. The point is, you can't make any money charging nothing - unless you're doing nothing. It's that simple.

          Originally Posted by Justin Lewis View Post

          But again, I'm saying a 5 page website. Usually 5 pages equals out to... homepage, about page, contact us page, legal pages, and reviews/testimonial page.
          No it doesn't. Contact and about, or similar, type pages are certainly necessary. Reviews and testimonials are great. None of them, together or separately, constitutes the entirety of a website.

          Originally Posted by Justin Lewis View Post

          If you want to go all out, that's totally okay. But many businesses are comfortable with something that simply helps them bring in more clients and don't want to have to invest $2,000 yet. Once they are comfortable with that and see the value behind it, then you can always say you'll do more for them if they signup for some type of payment plan.
          No, they are not. Aside from the few oddballs I mentioned above, no legitimate real world business owner thinks a $200 web site is going to do a damned thing for them. Sure, you'll sell a few. Just like the Coupon Co-Op and Placemat guys do. Hell, Don Alm has been paying his bills like that for years. But you won't actually make them any money. Now, if you want to take those same cookie cutter sites, spend the time and money to drive traffic to them, and then sell those leads? That's a different conversation.

          The myth though that you can generate the type of business with a basic template $200 site that I can with a custom designed one in the $2-$5K range is silly. I'm very good at what I do. Before I begin the design process, I have hours of conversations and research into my client's market. I know them, and I know their customers. This all plays into design, content, and how I drive conversions. You're going to have a hard time making me believe that you can do this in 45 minutes. But hey, If you have a magic bullet, I'm listening.

          Originally Posted by Justin Lewis View Post

          Just my thoughts.
          You didn't mean it like this, but I completely agree. You posted your thoughts. A couple of us have posted our EXPERIENCE.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8049500].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Justin Says
            Originally Posted by CreekChub View Post

            You might find a handful of folks who say "sure... $200? Throw that website thingy up against a wall and we'll see what sticks". The vast majority are either going to tell you to take a hike (because anyone with half a brain knows that you don't get anything of quality for $200).
            I'm in no way trying to bash your ideas in how you build a business..

            But a VAST majority of the websites I have seen build by "web developers" for local companies are complete scams. They charge $1,000 - $2,000 for a very base template with nothing really on it.

            $200 isn't crap.. it's helping them get started on the internet and if anything offers much more value than most of the services I have personally witnessed business owners pay for..

            You can charge whatever you'd like. If you offer the quality, then that's awesome, but it's just so common to see such BS websites placed up for businesses and then they are charged $2,000 or even charged $1,000/mo...

            Say what you say about them having money, point is I'm not in it for the money and everyone I've ever helped with a website (business or person) have appreciated my services much more than those they have paid $1,000 or $2,000 for..

            EDIT: I must add that you may offer better value than most, and that's okay. Charge what you charge if you can get it. But I have to express heavily that a very large amount of the websites I have seen designed for local clients (again in MY local area) are scams.
            Signature

            My name is Justin Lewis, with Business Optimizer I've been in business for 6 years online with multiple six figure years, here are the tools that have helped me the most: Increase your reviews with this free Review Handout

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8051921].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author MaxwellB
      Originally Posted by Eddie Spangler View Post

      I think the confusion in this thread is that Justin is selling niche sites for people who want to market affiliate offers and adsense. These are totally different than local biz websites and can be made much quicker.

      He wanted opinions originally on what a 5pg local site goes for because that is not his area of expertise. Then all the debating about value and what to charge started.
      Yeah haha I just realized that as well [facepalm]


      Originally Posted by Justin Lewis View Post

      How is that impossible?

      Do you ever understand how website development is done? If you don't then you can't really comment to much on it.

      It's not as crazy and confusing as many think it is and there isn't a huge time investment that has to be in place.

      Many people work 40 hours a week, during that period I went ahead and worked 50 hours a week and enjoyed the hell out of it.

      I just don't get how you can say it's impossible if each project takes me 45 minutes to 1 1/2 hours.

      And even so...

      It's not about the money dude... it's about the experience. I needed web development experience so I took action. Now I can do the same type of projects in less than 20 minutes because I was able to gain experience from doing.

      I have to stress over and over, it's not about the money.

      Oddly though when I sold the package for $50, no one bought. Sold them at $100, only a few bought. When I sold them at $200 that was my highest converting sales point, so I just stuck with it.

      It's also what my clients told me to charge once I was finished working on my original projects.

      Justin, we are talking about selling bespoke websites to small business owners...with genuinely good seo optimized content, custom graphics etc...That's what we thought you meant...We didn't know you meant niche sides for internet marketing....and that your current buyer list are internet marketers that re-order websites.

      The reason why we didn't understand is because you said for a pizza shop lol...

      So yes I do have experience in website development for small business owners that need custom sites, custom graphics, custom high quality content...that is more like $250 not $25 and this site will be with them for years and years.

      So what you have showed us is that you have NO idea of the development process for small business owners because it is impossible for someone to manage 85 brand new projects at once for custom websites/graphics/content unless there is some sort of automation in place to help.

      Yes it may take a short amount of time to throw the site up but the content needs to be written and that does not take 1 hour...and the pieces have to be delivered to the next person in the process....which makes it take more like 7 business days MINIMUM if they don't want revisions and everything happens perfectly to put together a site.

      Multiply that by 85 and you have issues because if you have 1 content guy he is not doing 85 custom website content projects in 1 week.

      We are not talking about niche sites that can be thrown together for IM purposes we are talking about completely bespoke web development projects that are worth $2-3k easily.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8048754].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author CreekChub
        Originally Posted by MaxwellB View Post

        Yeah haha I just realized that as well [facepalm]





        Justin, we are talking about selling bespoke websites to small business owners...with genuinely good seo optimized content, custom graphics etc...That's what we thought you meant...We didn't know you meant niche sides for internet marketing....and that your current buyer list are internet marketers that re-order websites.

        The reason why we didn't understand is because you said for a pizza shop lol...

        So yes I do have experience in website development for small business owners that need custom sites, custom graphics, custom high quality content...that is more like $250 not $25 and this site will be with them for years and years.

        So what you have showed us is that you have NO idea of the development process for small business owners because it is impossible for someone to manage 85 brand new projects at once for custom websites/graphics/content unless there is some sort of automation in place to help.

        Yes it may take a short amount of time to throw the site up but the content needs to be written and that does not take 1 hour...and the pieces have to be delivered to the next person in the process....which makes it take more like 7 business days MINIMUM if they don't want revisions and everything happens perfectly to put together a site.

        Multiply that by 85 and you have issues because if you have 1 content guy he is not doing 85 custom website content projects in 1 week.

        We are not talking about niche sites that can be thrown together for IM purposes we are talking about completely bespoke web development projects that are worth $2-3k easily.
        Agreed in full.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8048835].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author bawls
    Originally Posted by Justin Lewis View Post

    Let's just say someone comes to you and asks you to build a 5 page website for their local business.

    As an example, it's a pizza shop.

    How much would you charge them and why?
    As much as you can plus $50, is the correct price to anything that does not have a tangible value.
    Signature
    Dominate Craigslist
    ~1.50 Per Post * 90 Day Min Run * Ghost Free Guarantee~
    ~Full Phone & Skype Support * PM or Skype for Details~
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8048917].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author opalfx
    it depends on what their goals are, but i would go any lower than 750.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8049129].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Jon Martin
    If I'm going to do a simple 5-page site with minimal content, I'll typically charge between $600-$800, dependant on the clients needs as well as upsells.

    From there I'll try and get them to let me pimp out their FB page (usually $250), logo development, etc. The website is just the beginning!
    Signature
    "Be the hero of your own movie."
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8050016].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Justin Lavoie
    Good god I have to jump in. (excuse my english, im french)

    I also agree that you can't make quality site for 250$. If you do, you are losing money because you are putting way more than just an hour into this (if you actually offer any kind of value) AND you are hurting your business by lowering the value of your services.

    Lets say I call 3 roofers to replace my shingles. First one estimate the job at 3'250$, second one at 4'000 and third one at 1'250$... Now tell me which one has lost all his credibility? The third one. Who's gonna get the job? The first one.

    Selling websites for 250$ or even 500$ is a major waste of time to everyone involved in the project. You create a so-so website and make close to no money (like I said, considering you are actually bringing REAL value to your customer, thus many hours on the project), the customer get a so-so website. No marketing plan. No value. No nothing.

    In my case, I can put hours just to decide what colors and graphics Im gonna use... Writing compelling stuff takes another couple of hours, you dont go and outsource this stuff for 5$ on fiverr...NO WAY! Adding calls to action and maybe videos, another couple of hours... this list goes on and on till the end of the project. No marketing plan included yet and im already 10-15 hours in this project.

    Some people are cheap and will never pay 1'500-2'000-3'500-+++ for a website. I like to leave these people for the bottom feeders. I dont have time for these. The big spenders will leave you alone while the cheap ones will call you every couple of days to ask the same questions over and over again like you owed them the world for a mere 250$.

    Anyways, I tend not to sell any websites and try to rent them instead. Ask a monthly fee and if they ever leave, you rent to competitors....which is why they keep paying their monthly fees lol.. (or per leads fees)
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8051925].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Justin Says
    I'm loving the feedback, but really.. who says a low price has to offer low quality?

    Many people actually work harder when paid less...


    Did I say, "Hey I offer complete crap"? Nope...

    I said I offer what the business owner wants and they are happy at the end of the day. Who loses? The scammer that is coming around the corner expecting to do far less for $2,000?

    If you want to focus on money, so be it. That's okay. I'm totally okay with someone giving good work and charging higher for it.

    All I'm saying is that I'm okay with doing what I do. And at the end of the day the business owner has far more leads than they were averaging. What's wrong with that?

    Oh wait... I guess I'm not making a lot of money from it.. so I must be a terrible person :\

    NOTE: I'm not saying I would charge exactly $200 for every single website I ever designed.. of course I've charged more. I have local clients who pay me $50 - $75 an hour for multiple hours a week to help them then market the website and advance it even further. But really if a business just wants to get on the web that's what they come to me for.
    Signature

    My name is Justin Lewis, with Business Optimizer I've been in business for 6 years online with multiple six figure years, here are the tools that have helped me the most: Increase your reviews with this free Review Handout

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8051966].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author rbecklund
    The discussion is apples and oranges because there are those here who make a living doing this and have vast amounts of real life experience in the time and effort involved in making a site (that includes getting a client...) and those that have theories or dabble in this business.
    Signature

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8052200].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
    When you're solving a serious problem for someone, it doesn't matter how much or little time it takes for you to fix it. Not to them.

    How much would you pay a doctor to help you at the moment when you're having a heart attack?

    Anything.

    Most of the talk in this thread has been about commoditizing websites. As if they are Florida oranges. Or something you should trade your hours for dollars to make.

    NO.

    What is the value of this machine that has the purpose of turning visitors into hot prospects, or buyers?

    That is the question.

    The rest is window-dressing. How may pages? What colors? Who cares?

    What is the value of this machine to the buyer?

    Ask them what kind of traffic they expect to get. If they don't know, figure this out in front of them. Get them to agree on a daily visitor figure. Make sure your 'gut check' likes this number.

    Now ask them what they conservatively expect as conversions. Again, gut check. Getting them to give you a number, or having them agree to an adjustment up or down, is a lot easier than you stating one.

    If they say it, it's true. If you say it, you have to defend it.

    Third, as them what their average revenue per customer is. Use their terminology (guest check average, patient, client, etc.).

    Have them multiply the two together: conversion # x average $$ per client = total daily revenue for the site.

    # X 365 = for the year...that's about as far out as people can visualize. Of course they won't get a redesign for 3 or 4 years probably, but this makes the number pretty big.

    Then ask them what they'd expect to invest to get this result.

    Getting them to give you the numbers is a lot easier than you pushing numbers at them. ("How do you do this? Prove it to me." Now you're in trouble.)

    I'll bet you find you've been leaving money on the table for years.


    Q: Kanigan, sounds great but have you done this? A: I've sold custom database-driven applications to businesses, colleges, universities, government and non-profit organizations...and my price has been arrived at to the customer's satisfaction with this method, every time. Sometimes I get to use a multi-year revenue stream, and that really makes it happen. Every competitor is doing the old 'trade hours for dollars' thing and this totally stands out.)
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8052390].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author CreekChub
      Jason,

      You just told these fellas how to SELL one. I thought the conversation was on how long it takes (and how much to charge) for "it" once they're sold.

      Can't say I disagree with any of that - you're sort of proving my point (not that you were disagreeing). Could you imagine sitting down with a prospective client, going through your whole pitch, building value, discussing lifetime value of their ideal customer, and then detailing how you intend to in MORE of those ideal customers.....

      And ending with: "For $250 I can make your dreams come true..."? I would get laughed out of their office before I could even get to my superduper top-secret close. Which is, of course, the fantastic benefits of an "about" and "legal" page...
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8053630].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author hellboy99
    I once met a man who told me he had a connection to import chocolate a nickel a piece. He ordered thousands, created a high end packaging for the chocolates and put it in his high end store for around $10 a piece (came in a pack of 12, he sold chocolate for $100+!)

    The point is not whether the client is being "ripped-off", or whether their is a value in your service, the point is HOW MUCH VALUE DOES THE BUYER PERCEIVE A PRODUCT/SERVICE HAS. It's the unfortunate truth of capitalism. The reason why women are willing to pay $500 for a purse that's worth 15 bucks in raw material and labour. I once read Loius Vuitton burns extra purses because they refuse to put them on sale price.

    I love to help my clients grow their business. If you are doing that, you should get your fair share. Dealing with clients is a hassle, so reduce your client base and charge them MORE and do MORE for them. You can be picky and choose to decline low-ball offers. You're being greedy for not seeing the value you get from scarcity in your service, and being greedy will only get you less money. Be smart.

    I would charge a minimum of $500. At the same time, how much potential do you see in a client? If they were a fortune 500 CEO, hell I would even work a full year free for them to get favors. Have that business like mentality where you have to settle for less at first and reap the rewards later.
    Signature

    Add me on my own social network for opinions http://www.opinionoto.com/ my tag is +shehmeer

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8053696].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author kellyyarnsbro
    I would charge them for the pizza website for $375 plus an assurance of 30% increase on sales for their business, otherwise it's free.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8053740].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author DABK
      In my part of the world, $375 websites are found on page 147 in Google and convert at 0.0000137%.

      How can you do what you said?

      Originally Posted by kellyyarnsbro View Post

      I would charge them for the pizza website for $375 plus an assurance of 30% increase on sales for their business, otherwise it's free.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8073088].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Justin Says
        Originally Posted by DABK View Post

        In my part of the world, $375 websites are found on page 147 in Google and convert at 0.0000137%.

        How can you do what you said?
        See... the thing a LOT of people are missing here is that they are strictly stating that price relates to quality.. when that's obviously not true.

        Not everything that is a lower price is crap.. for example I have bought all of my vehicles on Craigslist, including motorcycles, cars, etc. and have never had one break down on me..

        And my sister has bought brand new cars from dealerships only to have them break down a few months later..

        Funny thing.. I barely keep up with my vehicles, I don't change oil, don't worry about the tires, engine, etc. and she keeps up with maintenance every month.

        I'm not saying to go out and buy a crappy car, I'm saying that you can definitely find a quality car for a low price and the same can be done with web development..
        Signature

        My name is Justin Lewis, with Business Optimizer I've been in business for 6 years online with multiple six figure years, here are the tools that have helped me the most: Increase your reviews with this free Review Handout

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8101000].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author DABK
          Let me rephrase: in my part of the world, $375 isn't that much money. So, unless you have a system to produce what you said in 8 hours tops, preferably 5, it's not a a great idea.

          Originally Posted by Justin Lewis View Post

          See... the thing a LOT of people are missing here is that they are strictly stating that price relates to quality.. when that's obviously not true.

          Not everything that is a lower price is crap.. for example I have bought all of my vehicles on Craigslist, including motorcycles, cars, etc. and have never had one break down on me..

          And my sister has bought brand new cars from dealerships only to have them break down a few months later..

          Funny thing.. I barely keep up with my vehicles, I don't change oil, don't worry about the tires, engine, etc. and she keeps up with maintenance every month.

          I'm not saying to go out and buy a crappy car, I'm saying that you can definitely find a quality car for a low price and the same can be done with web development..
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8102184].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Eddie Spangler
    This gif fits pretty well in this thread

    Signature
    Promise Big.
    Deliver Bigger.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8055084].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author DaniMc
      Signature
      Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8055135].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Erica Leggette
        Originally Posted by Dan McCoy View Post


        He looks like he just received some jaw dropping , unbelievable news...lol

        Like some other comedians and show hosts just phoned in live on the show and told him that even though he is enjoying what he does, and people keep paying him and expressing their gratitude for what he does, it's still not cutting it.
        Looks like they laid it on him pretty thick too. Told him that he is not bringing value and there's no way those people were really laughing, or really paying their money to see him, nor are they really building a relationship with him.

        And they was able to reach this conclusion on ticket price alone, without even knowing his dedication to his craft, audience or his business.

        I would be about to wipe my eyes and nose off my face too in disbelief. Especially when life is moving along pretty good.
        Signature
        Be easy.


        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8055474].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author JB
          Cringing in my seat reading some of the advice on this thread! We build 5 page websites at 3 different price brackets - 750, 1200 and 1700. I'm not talking about blogs or IM site but real world businesses such as law firms, accountants, restaurants etc. The pricing depends on the extras, eg customised social media channels with some integrated tools and backend tools on the sites themselves. We make our real money in monthly maintenance which starts at a bare minimum of 20pm with most clients on 75 and a few at 120pm.
          This covers hosting, backups, updates, weekly content updates (provided by the client then uploaded to their blog and social channels OR written from scratch for 120pm).
          Honestly people, too many of you are not looking at web design as a business. Professional businesses scale, hire employees, pay taxes and pump resources into marketing and advertising. You will NEVER end up with a web design firm with 5-10 staff charging less than 500 bucks for a website. Forget the work involved in creating a professional website that doesn't look like it came off a low grade WSO - selling your services for very low rates cheapens your brand.
          The solution is simple. Stop going after businesses that think 1200 is expensive for a website and actually see it as being good value. Work on your sales pitch! Getout of the bulding! Getting clients in requires actually knocking on doors and lifting the phone. You don't want to be talking to business owners who know about web design - they will just break your balls. Offer expertise, marketing solutions and most of all business sense and strategies. If you aren't actually focused on solving their problems then you need to rethink what you are doing. Do you want to make big money or do you want to work around the clock from your bedroom and never be able to afford an office and staff?
          The biggest problem I see is people who know how to build websites with zero understanding of their market and zero business sense.
          Rant over!

          PS we only build on wordpress. Also, we only chase easy brochure style sites for small to medium enterprise. No complicated builds using 100% from scratch code. We use a library of plugins and a handful of themes that offer high levels of flexibility (no two sites ever look the same). We have plenty of extras to add on too that can bring the basic 1700 package up to 3000 pretty quickly - especially if we haveto create all of the content, logos etc. Extras include business cards and stationery etc. None of this is any good though if the site doesn't work properly or actually get traffic etc. People pay for quality and will refer you on if you deliver on their expectations. I can't think of any businesses that would take you seriously if you said you would build their corporate website for 200.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8060200].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Marty S
            Originally Posted by JB View Post

            We build 5 page websites at 3 different price brackets - 750, 1200 and 1700...... We make our real money in monthly maintenance which starts at a bare minimum of 20pm with most clients on 75 and a few at 120pm.
            I don't disagree with this type of model as long as it is working for you, but I make way more by charging much less up front (yes, even ZERO on the website), and then adding a monthly social marketing campaign - which most small businesses I talk to, can undertand and more readily agree to the monthly fee. If I give them the website for free, (and technically, it's really not free, but does allow them to get online without a major cash outlay), I get them to sign for a minimum of 12 months social media marketing. The free website service has been a closing technique I used for a full year of income.

            If I see a business advertising in a community newspaper, I know they are paying $250-$500 for small square ads, and I go in there holding those ads and prove to them how much further their money can go with me, so the monthly program is quite often an easy sale.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8060291].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Justin Says
              Originally Posted by Marty S View Post

              I don't disagree with this type of model as long as it is working for you, but I make way more by charging much less up front (yes, even ZERO on the website).
              Exactly.

              And it's all about what's working for you

              One thing might work wonderfully for someone and then work terribly for another. If someone wants to charge less, that's okay. If someone wants to charge more, that's okay too.
              Signature

              My name is Justin Lewis, with Business Optimizer I've been in business for 6 years online with multiple six figure years, here are the tools that have helped me the most: Increase your reviews with this free Review Handout

              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8066485].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author qu4rk
      This sums up the entire thread.

      Originally Posted by Eddie Spangler View Post

      This gif fits pretty well in this thread

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8246170].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author novel
        nice, summed up it is
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8246306].message }}
  • 2k for a website that will market your business 24/7/365 a year (assuming hosting is included, etc)

    OR

    2k for a full page ad in your local magazine for one issue...

    Ummm...... do I need to spell this out?

    If clients don't want to pay a good price for a solid website - send them to Wix.
    If you charge 500 bucks for a website (don't care how many pages), go ahead and do it. I will be waiting for your client to call me one year later asking for a quote on a "real" website that brings them business. I'll have a big grin on my face

    To MOMTRADER - Do you think that is ok for a business to mark up a vehicle thousands of dollars to resell it and make a profit? The car is bought, detailed, then sat on the lot.... really thats worth thousands of dollars? even hundreds? Do you think it's fair to buy a 100$ part for a vehicle, spend 4 hours replacing the part, and charge the customer 400$? Is the mechanics time really worth all of that money? Is a good lawyer REALLY worth 200$ an hour? 300$ an hour? I bet he is if you need him bad enough.

    People invest money in things they NEED, no matter the cost. Businesses NEED business. Websites CREATE business.... If a 500$ website brings NO BUSINESS, then the website is worth NOTHING. If a website brings in 30k a year, then the website is worth 30k a year.

    THIS IS EARTH. WELCOME TO IT.
    Signature

    A local Southeast Texas Web Firm
    Crave Win Marketing
    Beaumont, TX Web Design & SEO

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8060284].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Justin Says
      Originally Posted by Crave Win Marketing View Post

      To MOMTRADER - Do you think that is ok for a business to mark up a vehicle thousands of dollars to resell it and make a profit? The car is bought, detailed, then sat on the lot.... really thats worth thousands of dollars? even hundreds?
      That's why I buy vehicles on Craigslist instead of dealerships

      Funny because I have had countless people say, "you're buying crap if you buy on craigslist" and yet I have never had a car/motorcycle I bought on craigslist break down even though I drive more than average.

      And then they buy a car from a dealership and have it break down weeks later.

      I think what it all comes down to is getting suckered into a deal. Yes, you're buying new, but that doesn't mean it's perfect. You'd be just as fine driving one that has been used because the second you drive it off the lot it's depreciated in value.
      Signature

      My name is Justin Lewis, with Business Optimizer I've been in business for 6 years online with multiple six figure years, here are the tools that have helped me the most: Increase your reviews with this free Review Handout

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8116815].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author jimmyjackson
    Originally Posted by Justin Lewis View Post

    Let's just say someone comes to you and asks you to build a 5 page website for their local business.

    As an example, it's a pizza shop.

    How much would you charge them and why?
    If your not confident in selling high ticket items it's definitely better to offer a low upfront fee for the website itself and making your money with monthly hosting and SEO packages to create yourself a nice residual income.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8067036].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author RimaNaj2011
      I can't believe this thread is going, but whatever I'll bump it up

      There's no right way to do things. Like someone said, they offer free websites and get 12 month social media contracts. Other people rent sites at a low fee and make XX,XXX a month and others work on single digit projects a month and make the same amount. There's many ways to go about this depending on your business model.
      Signature

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8067950].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author mervp
    To better objectify the pricing of a site, perhaps what the client can currently afford is relevant. And perhaps breaking down the work into components, and pricing each component fairly would help. If it's only a 5 page site, one can tell the business that "package 1" is cheap, but there is a definite roof to how much traffic it will get, or how much upkeep is worth it based on the limits of the site, etc.

    You could then talk about a "package 2" that is more of a traffic-generator, but not as robust as it could be, in order to be more affordable. Again, if this is broken down into segments it should be easier to justify both in selling it upfront, and in hindsight if the site doesn't perform as perfectly as the seller desired.

    Twenty properly SEOed articles and 200 quality backlinks, for example, is objectively worth something above zero, even if they do not sustain ongoing traffic after a year for whatever reason. If you've done $200 worth of such work on a site, you wouldn't want a company to call you a 'ripoff' just because it didn't give them the $2000 in value they were expecting.

    So it pays to present 2-3 packages to each company, say $100-200 per 5 page site, $500-$1000 for a 'basic' traffic generating site, and $1500-$2000 on up for a deluxe site with maximum traffic potential. Explain the actual value for each in terms of the base labor, included features, and in the projected earnings, then let them choose. This way there's enough disclosure and options provided to cover your pricing scheme, and to give the business realistic expectations about the value.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8068151].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author mhdeaton
    I just did a website for $10,000 cash and one for $3900 cash, and another for $1100 dollars worth of food. These prices included several months of backlinking and a Google + page. Just depends on, not just the niche, but the business owner and his level of knowledge about the true value of internet real estate. If someone wants a website I educate them on the value of SEO and backlinking straight away, if they don't see it my way, then ya $500 is fine, but the truth is where's the value in that?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8068580].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author x11joex11
    I'll be creating websites that actually convert into real customers using my previous skills in Adwords marketing and landing pages. I honestly believe what I have to offer is easily worth at least $3000, and will be charging this to clients. I will let you guys know if it works. I've very carefully crafted a sales pitch toward the angle of making money (with proof if I have to. In particular ... there are certain clients that I know 100% I can get them results, I'm prepared to spend $20 of my own dollars for advertising and create a simple landing page (modifying a similar site) as a test for their business and using 30 to 60 minutes of my time and give them a 'FREE' client, just so they can see it works. Sure I might get taken advantage of by a few people, but what is a $200 loss potentially and 2 hours of my time (or a paid worker in India @ $10/hr) if I get ripped off by a few people for a $3000 gain for the smart person that sees that it works and I can upsell further services to.

    I will let you guys know how my experiment goes.
    Signature

    -= Currently looking for craigslist & facebook experts =-

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8070007].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Kunle Olomofe
    I haven't posted in a long while due to lack of time mainly but this thread is forcing me to add my 2 cents... So I've found some time...

    1. Quit pricing web site design like you're pricing lollipops being sold down the street from your clients' houses. Web sites are not lollipops. They are business and often cash generating tools, price them as such. If a web site you build has the potential to earn a company 10's of millions of dollars are you really dumb enough to price your work so low you can hardly feed for a week on the pay you're getting from it? I have a deal with a client now where I've just had his web site done for $1,250, that's about a third of what I initially charged him. The slow economy really hit his relatively high powered company a little harder than he'd anticipated so he really couldn't afford to pay my real fee of almost $4,000 and 25% of total earnings from that site for at least a year, but he was desperate to have his web site done immediately. I knew some jack a** would come along and build him crap for like $300-$500 and he would still need me to come back and do the job again much better later so I pretty much told him as much. Here's what I did. I dropped my price to just over $1,000 as mentioned but didn't stop there, I basically said "Since you can't afford to pay what I really am worth for this job, I'll do you a deal, I'll take $1,250 up front now NOT ONE CENT LESS and 15% of your monthly earnings from that site for at least the first year, we can renegotiate up or down after that based on performance". I'd done my research and found that his monthly earnings could easily be up to $4,000 - $20,000 and even more per month (he sells advertising space in print and now wants to take it online as well). I offered to work on helping the site make money with my skills as a veteran web marketer of course and had the web site built TO SELL based on the level of conversion rate optimization, publicity and marketing I was going to be doing over the short and long term. Bottom line, I could have caved and said to myself "This guy will just give this to some newbie or desperate or clueless 'web designer' for a few bucks if I don't drop my price to sh** so lets just get this deal done for whatever he can pay, I'll even do it free if he kisses my a** just right!" But I didn't cave in. He did. My potential earnings are now $7,000+ - $36,000 (or even more!) from the site over at least a year. And I'll be working on that site only once a week for only a few hours per day (i.e. 2-5 hours max per day once a week). Oh by the way, I also got him to throw in a modern fully equipped office space right in his office block in a choice part of town (I get to use the address free of charge rent free, cheeky I know and I get free quality publicity thrown in by having an article a month published in his high profile local newspaper currently only distributed to high networth individuals in the city, plus I got him to agree to a small monthly fee of around $340 just for me coming in once weekly too. I'd say I got a far better deal than if I had just caved in at $300 - $500 JUST TO CLOSE THE SALE.

    2. Yes it is possible to build a "web site" in less than 45 minutes or even 15 minutes if you're flash gordon, but those kinds of sites are MOST UNlikely to be world class, premium quality, 100% totally absolutely bespoke, killer, conversion-powered, conversion rate optimized, seriously cash-generating-in-mind-developed web sites. They are kinda like lollipops, and yes can and should be priced like the crap they are for crap pay.

    3. Do the kind of sites in no. 2 above to get your feet wet, to get some fast cash rolling in, fast, to give to those who seriously will NEVER be able to afford or care to pay for or ever need the opposite of these types of sites. Don't however make a career out of this market, I doubt you'll ever enjoy it or profit greatly from it over the long term, but even if you do, what do you want to tell your great grand kids you used to do once upon a time, sell crap for a living or add quality to the world of marketing and increase to the bottom line of your clients balance sheets, with a nice mansion for yourself to show for it (hopefully Think about this very seriously even though it is said here tongue in cheek.

    4. Choose your level of maturity in this business, if you're a lollipop seller, know it, admit it and tell your clients that's what you do. If you're a master consultant and/or service provider or wish to be, then make up your mind and work hard to become that. Trust me when you've worked to get to that level you will NEVER price yourself at the rate of a cup of coffee or... a lollipop

    5. Do what you like. The world is big enough to let the smart guys find the smart clients who spend their money smartly in order to generate a smart income as well as to accommodate the guys who are PLAYING at doing business with their own web sites and the chaps happy to provide their sweat and expertise for a song.

    I've spent years trying to convince people to see the light about pricing because it helps them, me and the market to thrive. But I find that some people will never leave the rat race mindset behind and will waste my time and that of other serious folks trying to convince themselves and other poor saps to stay where they are. I'm not one to give up easily, but this particular argument is getting old so I'm not really expecting to change too many minds, just a few savvy enough to really "hear" what I'm saying.

    Best of luck,

    Kunle Olomofe
    Signature
    Celebrity Marketing Formula - How To Quickly Become A Celebrated Authority In ANY Industry/Niche... Coming Soon.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8070484].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Brent48
      Good post Karl Olomofe I think you are absolutly correct. I also agree
      that the debate is getting old and only the savy ones will hear what you are Saying!
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8072684].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
    The problem almost all of you have is that you're caught up in price instead of delivering results. When you truly care about the business and company you're helping, you will succeed. When price points and how to not leave money on the table becomes your focus, I believe you are doomed.

    Truly take an interest in others, and you will achieve success you never imagined. The best way to getting people to care about you and your business is to show that you care about theirs. People get interested in you, when you show interest in them.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8070896].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author DaniMc
      Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

      The problem almost all of you have is that you're caught up in price instead of delivering results. When you truly care about the business and company you're helping, you will succeed. When price points and how to not leave money on the table becomes your focus, I believe you are doomed.

      Truly take an interest in others, and you will achieve success you never imagined. The best way to getting people to care about you and your business is to show that you care about theirs. People get interested in you, when you show interest in them.
      You are right. Looking over the thread, I am guilty of focusing on the price aspect. Delivering value is the most important factor.

      At the same time, I feel price is a reflection of value. I also feel that when providers price too low, they miss a lot of opportunities because they don't have enough free capital built into their business.
      Signature
      Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8071056].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Kunle Olomofe
        Originally Posted by Dan McCoy View Post

        You are right. Looking over the thread, I am guilty of focusing on the price aspect. Delivering value is the most important factor.

        At the same time, I feel price is a reflection of value. I also feel that when providers price too low, they miss a lot of opportunities because they don't have enough free capital built into their business.
        You focused on the price aspect bcos that's what the OP was asking about unless I missed something.

        As you said as well price and value go hand in hand. And this discussion has been truly helpful for some trust me. If you tell someone you price too low cos ur offer is too basic, price higher by offering more (value) you're telling them to provide more so they can charge more so they can have more to grow too. It's all interwoven.

        Bottom line this discussion is about price, value comes as a given and where it isn't implied it has been expressly stated--read the really good posts here.

        In my view our job is to make more money for the client, we want to charge more so we can ethically hold ourselves to making more for the client.

        I'm honestly not seeing where there is a conflict of interest that will ultimately ruin a service provider and/or consultant's business based on the above.

        Cheers,

        Kunle
        Signature
        Celebrity Marketing Formula - How To Quickly Become A Celebrated Authority In ANY Industry/Niche... Coming Soon.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8071296].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author NickSway
    Charge $499 one time fee and then a $49/month for hosting an maintenance.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8101144].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author SoundsGood
    Wow. This thread explains a lot. I posted an ad on Craigslist a while back, advertising web design service to local businesses. I found businesses looking for a $1500 website but wanting to pay $99 or less. Now I think I'm starting to understand why.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8102894].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author RockNRolla
    This thread has been quite the eye opener! Now I know for sure that these crazy ads on Gumtree selling 5 page websites for £99 aren't just scam ads!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8105040].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Justin Says
    Back in the day you had to buy a camera, camcorder, phone, cd player, tv, vcr, computer, compass, calculator, calendar, pen/papper, clock, map, etc.

    Now all you need is a smart phone for a low price.. heck you don't even need a data plan as long as you can access WiFi.

    Things get easier.. it's how we progress. And in turn prices tend to go down. And that's okay..
    Signature

    My name is Justin Lewis, with Business Optimizer I've been in business for 6 years online with multiple six figure years, here are the tools that have helped me the most: Increase your reviews with this free Review Handout

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8105269].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author bwh1
    This thread is a perfect example why it started to suck to get into Offline Marketing.

    There are a lot of service minded people around which don't know how to Market - seriously.

    All the talk about pricing means squad if you don't start to look at it from the customers perspective.

    WHAT IS IT WORTH FOR A CLIENT TO HAVE A OFFLINE MARKETING SYSTEM IN PLACE?

    That's the question which has to be answered (in FIGURES) and based on the business it can be that the setup (of the system, not the site alone) is valued at $700.- or maybe it's valued at 2k or even more depending on competition and complexity. As Marthy stated, maybe you charge nothing for a good monthly contract or you barter something valuable.

    There is no flat fee which covers all.

    And I personally refuse to build websites without to setup a Marketing system for direct response marketing results - it doesn't get your client any results.

    So if you just build him a 5 page website which get him 1 additional pizza sale a week, then even $150.- is too much for the site IMO.

    Stop to sell services and sell solutions which have a clear goal - then you can charge 15 - 20% from what you can add to a businesses bottom line per month.

    And always go for recurring contracts, this is a must for keeping your business healthy.

    G.
    Signature

    Affiliates Wanted! Make anywhere from 42,- to $72 in commissions. Simply Recommend the Best QuickBooks Pro Video Course available at Clickbank.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8105478].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author bwh1
    I remember a story which might give some of you a clue to all this.

    There was once a manufacturer which had a product line paralyzed based on a mechanical problem causing him a loss of 1k a day.

    He called the first 24h services to have a look at it - the guy charged him a measly $500 bucks upfront to come over. The factory owner was thrilled to get a cheap fix.

    After about 5 hours of looking and trying the guy gave up and walked away, unable to fix the problem to get the line running.

    He anyhow walked away with the 500 dollars they agreed on and the line stand still for another day costing another 1k for the factory owner (actually 1.5k together with the service fee).

    The Factory owner called the second service guy which asked him 2k, but only if he would be able to get the line working - "That's damn expensive.." he thought, but great "I have to pay nothing upfront - there's no risk for me" - so he asked the guy to come over.

    The guy came, looked at the machine, tweaked here and there a bit and in about 10 minutes he got the line working again.

    The business owner was baffled and asked - "Man, you ask an outrageous 2k from me to come over and fix my line in 10 minutes - how comes you charge so much for this?"

    The answer was...

    "Because I know how to fix it".

    Moral of the story.

    Your worth what you know and can do for others.

    G.
    Signature

    Affiliates Wanted! Make anywhere from 42,- to $72 in commissions. Simply Recommend the Best QuickBooks Pro Video Course available at Clickbank.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8105560].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Justin Says
      Originally Posted by bwh1 View Post

      I remember a story which might give some of you a clue to all this.

      There was once a manufacturer which had a product line paralyzed based on a mechanical problem causing him a loss of 1k a day.

      He called the first 24h services to have a look at it - the guy charged him a measly $500 bucks upfront to come over. The factory owner was thrilled to get a cheap fix.

      After about 5 hours of looking and trying the guy gave up and walked away, unable to fix the problem to get the line running.

      He anyhow walked away with the 500 dollars they agreed on and the line stand still for another day costing another 1k for the factory owner (actually 1.5k together with the service fee).

      The Factory owner called the second service guy which asked him 2k, but only if he would be able to get the line working - "That's damn expensive.." he thought, but great "I have to pay nothing upfront - there's no risk for me" - so he asked the guy to come over.

      The guy came, looked at the machine, tweaked here and there a bit and in about 10 minutes he got the line working again.

      The business owner was baffled and asked - "Man, you ask an outrageous 2k from me to come over and fix my line in 10 minutes - how comes you charge so much for this?"

      The answer was...

      "Because I know how to fix it".

      Moral of the story.

      Your worth what you know and can do for others.

      G.
      Whew that's an excellent story!

      And I do agree

      I think people just feel I'm charging too low because of their own experiences, but $75 - $100/hr to me is great and I've changed peoples lives with literally 1 email that they paid me $150 for. While I've had others pay me $300 for 15 minutes that helped them increase their conversions 4x.

      It's definitely a knowledge game, but to me $100 for a single hour of work is amazing.. it just boggles my mind sometimes.

      Would I charge $3,000 to someone that was willing to pay it, of course. Would I charge $10,000 to a company if I knew I could increase their profits x3, absolutely. But at the same time I like to start small by getting them setup with a basic site and progressing from there. I never said, hey build a site and walk away without helping them any further and I think that's what a lot of people in this thread are mistaken about.

      One company I helped originally build a website for (which took me 45 minutes in total) paid me $200 but since then they pay me $200-$300 every 2 weeks to come back and maintain the site which literally takes me anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour and I have fun doing it.

      Ah anyways, thanks for the story
      Signature

      My name is Justin Lewis, with Business Optimizer I've been in business for 6 years online with multiple six figure years, here are the tools that have helped me the most: Increase your reviews with this free Review Handout

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8108894].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author InsightIM
    LOL, love it. And the GlenGary Glen Ross speech is one of my favorites and he got nominated or won something for that speech and its the only scene he's in in the movie, which I also watched after seeing the speech on youtube.

    Here's some worthwhile advice. There's a program called "Action Selling". There's a short book that is by the same guy that is called "Selling Your Price". (There's a whole series of books that are great on the action selling program.)

    In these books it talks about how everything now days is a commodity. Our products can be bought somewhere else cheaper, our services can be bought somewhere else cheaper, everything is a commodity in a global market.

    We all have competitors in India and Russia and in most of the world that lives off of less than a few bucks a day. We charge so much for our time because we live in the wealthiest most opportunity filled country in the world. We HAVE to charge what we charge because it is very expensive to live in America.

    Is my time worth $500 an hour? YES! I hate making less than $200 an hour, and usually pis and moan to my wife and friends about having to do it. I believe YOUR time is worth $500 an hour if you can solve the kinds of problems that are worth solving for $500 an hour. I've paid attorneys $360 an hour for patent work. I've paid Jiffy Lube $45 for the 10 minutes it took them to change my oil.

    We don't just build websites, we solve problems. If you paid $120,000 dollars for a website like Tyson Foods just did last year to a company in my city, you'd probably feel ripped off, but Tyson Foods doesn't. Probably because that website was a heck of a deal in my opinion.

    Websites are a commodity. I can build a great one in a day or so. But the problems that the website solves are a solution that is more valuable than the website. And the traffic to the website is worth paying lots for too.

    You will NEVER keep a satisfied customer if you charge $2000 for a 5 page website when someone in china can do it for $20. But if you know what problems your customer is wanting to solve, and you solve them, that solution is worth WHATEVER that customer is willing to pay. That's what the free market system is all about. Market value is determined by the BUYER, not the seller, and ONLY after they buyer PAYS the seller.

    The big deal is that the Value is not the value to the seller, its the value to the buyer. The sellers idea of value in the case of a website comes from the time and effort invested in the creation of it. But you're also missing the point if you think that the value to the buyer is determined by sales figures. Most businesses can't tell you what their break even point is, let alone how much money their website makes them. Value to the buyer could be branding, a cool look and feel, or something as simple as the owner in a video walk on in the lower right corner. It all depends on what the buyer is looking for.

    That's my opinion.

    PS I've charged $4000 for 2 lines of code. And I've done entire optimized ecommerce sites that brought in sales for clients for free, and I own 2 offline businesses one doing websites for small businesses and one doing tree removal so I know what's going on in the economy too.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8108207].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author bwh1
      Originally Posted by InsightIM View Post


      PS I've charged $4000 for 2 lines of code. And I've done entire optimized ecommerce sites that brought in sales for clients for free, and I own 2 offline businesses one doing websites for small businesses and one doing tree removal so I know what's going on in the economy too.
      Great. You obviously know how to sell.

      Maybe I should add that price is NOT an argument if you target solutions.

      You ALWAYS have to ask your client what problem he like (and need) to solve.

      Having a $250 dollar website does not solve problems.

      Having a website at Google's first page resolves a problem, but that means that $250 don't cut it.

      It's like the difference of printing a business card or advertising the business at main street where all the clients are.

      Not the same in terms of value and results.

      So start to sell to your potential customers solutions and make a difference in their lives.

      G.
      Signature

      Affiliates Wanted! Make anywhere from 42,- to $72 in commissions. Simply Recommend the Best QuickBooks Pro Video Course available at Clickbank.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8109959].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Justin Says
        Originally Posted by bwh1 View Post

        Having a $250 dollar website does not solve problems.
        Again, the amount spent doesn't relate to the value...

        If we keep jumping around thinking that a $10,000 website is better than a $500 website we are going to be wasting our time.

        It's all about who's building the site, if they can continue to offer a valuable service, and how much effort they put into the build.

        I know from my own experience that someone can put more effort into something while getting paid far less.. And the value shows from that effort.
        Signature

        My name is Justin Lewis, with Business Optimizer I've been in business for 6 years online with multiple six figure years, here are the tools that have helped me the most: Increase your reviews with this free Review Handout

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8116806].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author nikswf
    it's depends on client. but i think anything between $500 to $1000 is good as per complication of website and things client required. best way is checkout competitors services and price first and check their portfolio and if you can do better than that charge some good amount like $1500 or so.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8110128].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author bonvideo
    Have three Proposal mock ups included for them to choose from each on a different budget.
    Let them choose and ask you questions. Price range should go from as low as $550 usd up to $2300 usd. it is a numbers game really. - It is up to them and their budget, once they know the facts make sure that if they choose the low cost budget, they agree with you on expanding or improving their website ever 3 - 6 months.
    For example adding new services, like credit card processing or a coupons system, etc.

    This has worked best for me for over 10 years now people want to see mock ups! and numbers beow them that's all you need when it is about selling websites.

    Have great day!

    Maurice
    Signature
    Affiliates! Top CANADA HEALTH STORE. Worldwide Shipping. Visit Now for Wholesale Pricing & More!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8110183].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Alexchan338
    Sorry for my interruption, but I have really learned alot just spending time to read every single response of this thread.

    Anyways, carry on.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8112661].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author watsonovedades
    I cannot sleep reading this thread, thanks to all for the posts i learned a lot seriously
    Signature
    Whatever your mind can conceive and BELIEVE you can achieve
    Follow me on Twitter - @DineroConPc
    I talk about Affiliate Marketing Methods
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8124858].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author wellcool
    I think some of you guys should read this - Breaking the Time Barrier - in terms of putting a price on your services.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8235323].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
    This thread is just so enlightening as to peoples perspective on what to charge and as I see it...

    The question is generic and never really expounds on the purpose of the web site. There is more then one purpose to have a web site and since that wasn't really revealed every ones answer is going to be based on their own understanding of what "THEY" think a web site should be used for.

    Lets not get into the many different ways a website can actually be built which can vary the cost greatly to deliver it.

    Personally I like to deliver sites that are custom designed graphically and that is a large part of the cost's in many cases because it's a brand we are dealing with.

    I had a client that we did a site for and after we showed them the wire frames, they ended up re-branding the whole company because the concept art if you, will was outstanding and they wanted to elevate there image to the new look.

    And just to bring a little perspective I charge a minimum of $900 for a custom designed landing page. Yes landing page as in a single html page.
    Signature
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8235702].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author eClicker
    I will jump into the pile for the fumble and say I would charge $850...lol But I outsource that work sooooo...
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8237445].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author cpoalmighty
    My take on it is a little different and simple
    "Charge whatever you want, it's your business!"
    Around the world and probably right in the other neighbourhood, people sell the same things for different prices...why?...because you are dealing with different people with a different set of needs. Find out what he wants....estimate your time accordingly...and value the project based on your time and expertise of course
    Signature
    Host Ultimo LLC
    Home Page | Get A Website Quote | Direct Link to our Trial SSD Hosting. Instant setup
    We host, design and develop XHTML5/CSS3 {PHP} codeigniter for Wordpress | Ubersmith | WHMCS

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8240368].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
      You can't multiply time which is why time based charges keep you in a job, even as a business owner.

      What every one should be charging for is the experience and knowledge we learned over the years.

      So when I want to charge $600 bucks to install word press and some basic plugin, its not because it only take a couple of minutes it's because I learned how to do it properly. It's the little things like not using admin as the user name that prevent troubles down the line for the customer.

      I know some people are going to rage on me for saying I charge that much and I'm ripping people off. I could care less because most business owners have no clue and for them to take the time to learn how to do it from start to finish it ends up taking up a lot of their time.

      Originally Posted by cpoalmighty View Post

      My take on it is a little different and simple
      "Charge whatever you want, it's your business!"
      Around the world and probably right in the other neighbourhood, people sell the same things for different prices...why?...because you are dealing with different people with a different set of needs. Find out what he wants....estimate your time accordingly...and value the project based on your time and expertise of course
      Signature
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8240655].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author bwh1
        Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

        You can't multiply time which is why time based charges keep you in a job, even as a business owner.

        What every one should be charging for is the experience and knowledge we learned over the years.

        So when I want to charge $600 bucks to install word press and some basic plugin, its not because it only take a couple of minutes it's because I learned how to do it properly. It's the little things like not using admin as the user name that prevent troubles down the line for the customer.

        I know some people are going to rage on me for saying I charge that much and I'm ripping people off. I could care less because most business owners have no clue and for them to take the time to learn how to do it from start to finish it ends up taking up a lot of their time.
        As long as there are clients paying for what you offer and they are happy with what they get you are golden.

        Usually the ones which charge low fees are those which are not sure what they are doing and can't attach a value to the service they offer.

        G.
        Signature

        Affiliates Wanted! Make anywhere from 42,- to $72 in commissions. Simply Recommend the Best QuickBooks Pro Video Course available at Clickbank.

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8240704].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author downr
    I would charge for this thread.

    Took some time to go thru all the posts, but was definately worth it.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8240697].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author rizy
    Creating a website by customizing a premium theme: $500 is enough.
    Similar method plus local SEO: $1500 is enough.

    Creating a website from scratch: $1500 is enough.
    Similar method plus local SEO: 2500 is enough.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8241044].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author DABK
      Enough for whom? Under what circumstances?

      All the above thread is hinges on several factors that a lot of people don't seem to take into consideration.

      The value of anything for sale is based on what the seller and buyer say it is.

      The market value of real estate is the value a typical, knowledgeable buyer, acting not under pressure and having the money to back up his desire and a typical, knowledgeable seller, who's not under pressure to sell.

      Which means, the value of a 3-bedroom, brick ranch, with a full, finished basement, that's in excellent condition is $100k in one neighborhood, $753,000 in another.

      But next to the $100k ranch you can find a 2 story 5-bedroom house that everyone says it's worth at least $175,000 and next to the $753,000 you find one that's worth $379,000.

      And, in every market, there's a bunch of sellers who want too much, buyers who're never willing to pay enough to get the house they want.

      The same with business owners and marketers.

      There are many markets for a website. And there are many types of websites (the one your bank uses has got to cost a lot more than the one your church has.)

      The whole point: value of a website is always dependent on 2 parties and their circumstances. A 5-page brochure website vs a 5-page website that gives away a freebie in exchange for an email address and has a 12-email message sequence have different values to people who make them. To some business owners too.

      The "trick" for the website maker is to find the business owner for whom the type of website the web maker builds is worth just as much as it is to the web maker.



      Originally Posted by rizy View Post

      Creating a website by customizing a premium theme: $500 is enough.
      Similar method plus local SEO: $1500 is enough.

      Creating a website from scratch: $1500 is enough.
      Similar method plus local SEO: 2500 is enough.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8241344].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author rizy
    @DABK
    There is also another market you are missing, and that market is kind wholesale. I am using the word carelessly as selling 30 sites a month is clearly anything but wholesale. The point is I want lots of customers, and for that reason I charge them a price that is reasonable to build my clients a good looking website that represents their brand and values. Now starting prices of 500 are not good enough for the time that I am offering, and I hate up selling instead of offering a complete solution, but it is a start that has to be taken and compromised with because it works. But you should always create different channels to market different niche and provide different solutions. But I am speaking through a more national perspective, if you are local and can do face to face you should obviously be charging more.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8241695].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author DABK
      I wasn't missing that market. I was merely stating that in the mobile website world, there are several markets. The same as in real estate, dentistry, or anything else.

      Part of the value of a mobile website is the overhead of the web maker. Part of it is the greed of both parties... how much profit do you want. Part is the setup the maker has (how fast/how many he/she/it/they can produce in a given period).

      Part of the value has to do with the skill of the maker and the level of skill the buyer requires.

      My point was that, when you say a certain amount is 'enough,' you're not saying something meaningful unless you give other information.

      If you live in a part of the world where the average person earns $400/month and you sell to people in the same part of the world, enough is different than if you live in a part of the world where the average salary is $4000 a month and you're selling to people in the part of the world where you live.




      Originally Posted by rizy View Post

      @DABK
      There is also another market you are missing, and that market is kind wholesale. I am using the word carelessly as selling 30 sites a month is clearly anything but wholesale. The point is I want lots of customers, and for that reason I charge them a price that is reasonable to build my clients a good looking website that represents their brand and values. Now starting prices of 500 are not good enough for the time that I am offering, and I hate up selling instead of offering a complete solution, but it is a start that has to be taken and compromised with because it works. But you should always create different channels to market different niche and provide different solutions. But I am speaking through a more national perspective, if you are local and can do face to face you should obviously be charging more.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8242918].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author denniqhahn
    Old thread but lots of good tips I still can't sell my products all I can market is a popular free products. People just refuse to buy whatever I do.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9174743].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author DABK
      Maybe you're presenting them to the wrong crowd?

      Originally Posted by denniqhahn View Post

      Old thread but lots of good tips I still can't sell my products all I can market is a popular free products. People just refuse to buy whatever I do.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9175551].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Justin Lewis
    I'd like to note that my prices and time have increased with experience. I'm finding that there are a lot of businesses out there that will not spend below a certain amount. They already have that number in their head.

    For example I offer one service for $1,500/mo but I went to someone without mentioning that amount and they were willing to pay $1,600/mo for half the work.

    It's interesting how my mind has changed over the course of time but it's definitely a great learning experience and I thank all of your for the criticism
    Signature

    My name is Justin Lewis, with Business Optimizer I've been in business for 6 years online with multiple six figure years, here are the tools that have helped me the most: Increase your reviews with this free Review Handout

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9176201].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author infamous dave
    For all of you who doubt that a simple Wordpress website could be worth $2000.......I work as a sales and marketing manager for a small manufacturing company. We have paid web developers for several different websites over the years and the last 2 sites have been Wordpress websites. We have paid anywhere from $2,000 to $3,000 for these plus hourly fees for customization and hosting.

    Now I have learned to build these sites on my own but I am still the only one in the office who has a clue how to do it and a few years ago we were tickled pink to pay that amount for our websites. We saw the value in a good website no matter if it was a theme or custom so it was an easy decision to pull the trigger.

    If your customers won't pay $500-$2,000 for a website that they will have for several years and potential make thousands of dollars from, either you are not showing them value or you are working with the wrong clientele.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9176326].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author quick_silver
    I would probably charge around $650-$700+ depending on the apps and other things they need. The reason I would charge that is because my preferred rate is $65 per hour and I put around 10-12 hours into it, and again, it depends on their specific needs. Direct question=direct answer, just saying...
    Signature

    Get web hosting for $79 per year from a well-respected company based in Omaha, Nebraska. https://www.websnoogie.com

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9179767].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
    How much you charge is not really important.

    What is important is how much value you deliver.

    If you make a business more profits than what they pay you in
    fees then you've delivered a valuable service.

    Talking about how much to charge for a 5 page website is completely
    the wrong mindset.

    What you want to be thinking about is how you can make that pizza
    shop a boatload of extra sales and profits.

    eg. Get existing customers onto an email list so you can send out offers
    at will (especially for the more quiet times of the week).

    When you do special deals make sure a high percentage of them are for
    high net profit lines so the business is making a great profit even when
    they're offering a great deal.

    Just 2 ideas.

    If you do that math you'll quickly work out 2 ideas like that can be worth
    many thousands of dollars in extra profit over a month so charging a decent
    fee upfront and a decent ongoing fee is not a problem.

    On the other hand if all you're thinking is how much can you charge for a 5
    page website you're doing the business an incredible disservice.

    Kindest regards,
    Andrew Cavanagh
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9182176].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author quick_silver
    Like some others who posted on here, I tend to do a package type price. What is assumed is that the pizza business is going to sign up, but what is not discussed is the conversion optimization of the web design company. I have been doing this a lot of years, and used many different methods, and simply setting rates and performing the work seems to perform better than the other models.

    I have charged 1000's of dollars for websites in the past, but it all depends on how much the perspective client can be educated on the things they need to make their business grow, and that is part of accessing the client's needs.

    The reality is some clients just want a brochure website with nothing else, and at the end of the day, you can ramp up the most awesome models for sales, but if you don't have conversions because you have not properly accessed what the clients wants after educating them, your business is doomed, and no awesome method on sales will save you.
    Signature

    Get web hosting for $79 per year from a well-respected company based in Omaha, Nebraska. https://www.websnoogie.com

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9182264].message }}

Trending Topics