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[Offliners] Do You Offer Copywriting Services?

by benbro
13 replies
I have a question for offliners who've been at it for a while - who also offer coywriting services to your clients.

Outsource Copy Writing or Do It In-House?

Do you hire/outsource third party copywriters or do you handle the copywriting yourself?

I ask because after reading Claude Whitacre's "Selling Local Advertising" offering and reading some of Chris Rivers comments; it just seems like a no-brainer.

i.e. clients not only need help with seo, web design, mobile and etc...But even more so, they need help with getting sales-driving copy.

Because after all, what good is it to drive traffic or get someone's attention only to have them immediately walk because they couldn't understand the offer.

But then again, given how much experienced copywriters charge, I'm wondering how practical it would be to offer sales writing (newspaper ads, mailing pieces and of course website copy) to my clients.

How do you handle it?

Thanks in advance for your answers!
#copywriting #offer #offliners #services
  • Profile picture of the author Arzak
    Good questions, I've been wondering if others offer copywriting services as well. I know some people that hire copywriters, but for their own work and campaigns, not clients'. It's actually pretty important and ties in with a lot of marketing so I think it can be something useful to offer by itself or part of your other services (you can say it's included for free or something).

    I have some good material on copywriting and sales that I'm going to go through to learn for myself. I'm going to leave the copywriting stuff to the copywriters until I'm confident about my skills.
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    • Profile picture of the author benbro
      Originally Posted by Arzak View Post

      Good questions, I've been wondering if others offer copywriting services as well. I know some people that hire copywriters, but for their own work and campaigns, not clients'. It's actually pretty important and ties in with a lot of marketing so I think it can be something useful to offer by itself or part of your other services (you can say it's included for free or something).

      I have some good material on copywriting and sales that I'm going to go through to learn for myself. I'm going to leave the copywriting stuff to the copywriters until I'm confident about my skills.
      You know what Arzak? Sounds like we're on the same page! I've been reading up on copywriting too and feel like it might make more sense to hire it out right now.

      But at the same time I've started thinking of some ways for me to start doing it where the consequences of messing up are nil. Downside is that will of course mean me doing something for free. But if it turns out that I learn from it, I'm sure it'll be worth it over the long term.
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      • Profile picture of the author Enfusia
        Hi,
        "The ability to organize words that sell is a super power" Dan Kennedy.

        I've been writing copy for 30 years and as such am still not qualified to tell you what to do but I would like to offer up my humble opinion.

        In the immortal words of Henry Ford "Do what you do best and for everything else hire an expert".

        "Lousy copywriters will cost you a fortune but Great copywriters will make you one" Patrick Shelley (AKA me).

        I've used these quotes to build my point that I will no explain.
        I'm just going to copy and past a small section from my site instead of writing it all out again. This is worth 1 1/2 minutes to read:

        "Your business sells X product for $99 (remember this is only an example). You spend $5,000 dollars to drive 10,000 potential prospects to your nice beautiful long copy sales page.

        In this example you're doing a Google Adwords campaign with really good buyer focused keywords so the traffic quality is not the issue.
        The problem is; the copy you thought you were getting a bargain price on doesn't convert all that well.


        With your 10,000 site visitors you sell .5% (1/2 a percent) which equals 50 sales X $99.00 = $4,950. Which means you lost $50 in advertising, you lost ALL of your product costs PLUS all of your time and hard work went down the drain as well.... painful to say the least.


        Now, you go out and hire really good copywriter to write a completely new sales page. The price is quite a bit higher but fair and you are hopeful that they will be able to help you solve your back breaking problem. Because let's face it, you can't continue to lose money like that, no one can.


        You get the new long copy sales page up, the designers did a great job it looks even better than before. You read it and you're so sold you'd even pay yourself for your own product.


        Next you drive 10,000 new prospects to the page with the EXACT SAME Adwords campaign and eagerly await the numbers.


        This time your site converts at an amazing 3% so you sold 300 units at $99.00 which equals $29,700 in sales and you just made a nice tidy profit.


        Keep in mind this was just an example. No matter what kind of business you run whether it's a Pizza parlor, Manufacturing facility, Dentists office, an Online Store or any type of business you can name, the amount per sale or the number of customers will be different but the general results remain the same. Great copy sells... period!"


        As you may have guessed, I'm a copywriter.


        Patrick
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        The Secret To Success In Any Business
        Yes, Any Business!
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        • Profile picture of the author benbro
          Originally Posted by Enfusia View Post

          Hi,
          "The ability to organize words that sell is a super power" Dan Kennedy.

          I've been writing copy for 30 years and as such am still not qualified to tell you what to do but I would like to offer up my humble opinion.

          In the immortal words of Henry Ford "Do what you do best and for everything else hire an expert".

          "Lousy copywriters will cost you a fortune but Great copywriters will make you one" Patrick Shelley (AKA me).

          I've used these quotes to build my point that I will no explain.
          I'm just going to copy and past a small section from my site instead of writing it all out again. This is worth 1 1/2 minutes to read:

          "Your business sells X product for $99 (remember this is only an example). You spend $5,000 dollars to drive 10,000 potential prospects to your nice beautiful long copy sales page.

          In this example you're doing a Google Adwords campaign with really good buyer focused keywords so the traffic quality is not the issue.
          The problem is; the copy you thought you were getting a bargain price on doesn't convert all that well.


          With your 10,000 site visitors you sell .5% (1/2 a percent) which equals 50 sales X $99.00 = $4,950. Which means you lost $50 in advertising, you lost ALL of your product costs PLUS all of your time and hard work went down the drain as well.... painful to say the least.


          Now, you go out and hire really good copywriter to write a completely new sales page. The price is quite a bit higher but fair and you are hopeful that they will be able to help you solve your back breaking problem. Because let's face it, you can't continue to lose money like that, no one can.


          You get the new long copy sales page up, the designers did a great job it looks even better than before. You read it and you're so sold you'd even pay yourself for your own product.


          Next you drive 10,000 new prospects to the page with the EXACT SAME Adwords campaign and eagerly await the numbers.


          This time your site converts at an amazing 3% so you sold 300 units at $99.00 which equals $29,700 in sales and you just made a nice tidy profit.


          Keep in mind this was just an example. No matter what kind of business you run whether it's a Pizza parlor, Manufacturing facility, Dentists office, an Online Store or any type of business you can name, the amount per sale or the number of customers will be different but the general results remain the same. Great copy sells... period!"


          As you may have guessed, I'm a copywriter.


          Patrick
          Wow, way to make a point. Yes, can definitely tell you're a copywriter. What you said makes a lot of sense. Thanks Patrick.
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          • Profile picture of the author Enfusia
            Just to be sure. I hope my point was clear.

            Guys, hire a copywriter!

            Putting new tile in your bathroom is do it yourself type stuff, copywriting is not!

            Patrick
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            The Secret To Success In Any Business
            Yes, Any Business!
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            • Profile picture of the author benbro
              Thanks Patrick. Point well taken sir!
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              "Everything you can imagine is real." – Pablo Picasso

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  • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
    I do most of the copy for clients but...and this is REALLY important...I don't call it
    copywriting.

    Most local business owners have no idea of the value of good sales copy so I
    sell a sales letter or a lead generating report etc etc.

    And educate them on why it's important and the potential dollar value to them
    of the solution.


    There are a whole pile of different ways to help a business using copy but the
    mistake many copywriters make is in trying to sell copywriting services instead
    of selling solutions that can make the business real sales and profits.

    Kindest regards,
    Andrew Cavanagh
    Signature
    Old School Copy Like This Is BACK & Converting Like Crazy!
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  • Profile picture of the author hbteos234
    I too have been writing my own copy but recently starting to understand that perhaps hiring it out may make more sense. The variable that I am completely not sure about though is the cost. What are we taking about for copywriting? is it tens, hundreds or thousands?
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    • Profile picture of the author Jack Bastide
      well it's not 10's or 100's

      Originally Posted by hbteos234 View Post

      I too have been writing my own copy but recently starting to understand that perhaps hiring it out may make more sense. The variable that I am completely not sure about though is the cost. What are we taking about for copywriting? is it tens, hundreds or thousands?
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  • Profile picture of the author DaniMc
    If you want to continue to grow your business, memorize these words - Scalable and Repeatable.

    It is neither scalable nor repeatable for you to learn to write copy yourself. Even if you turn into the very best in the world, which is very, very unlikely and would take an extremely dedicated effort for several decades, you would still be limited by the clock. There are only 24 hours in a day.

    Scalable - Hiring others to do the work is how a business grows. None of us can succeed alone. We simply MUST leverage the work of other competent people. If it is someone's drive in life to be a great copywriter, then hire THEM to do it for you. Even a mediocre writer who is doing what they love will do a far better job than you if writing is not your passion.

    Repeatable - If you can find one competent writer, you can find more. Don't build your business on a foundation that requires you to be like Atlas and hold it all up. Start, right from day one, building a foundation that you can stand upon and build upon and guide the workers in the labor.

    Doing it yourself FEELS (at first) like the less risky way of going about it. The truth is, learning to do it all yourself is one of the most risky things you can do. You are only one mishap away from financial ruin. I have seen the effects this can have on a person. One day you have it all - a year later you are a broke, divorced, alcoholic with no friends.

    The least risky investment you can make is in other people and the distribution of labor. Don't do it yourself. Find someone who loves to do it, and pay them.
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    Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
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    • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
      Originally Posted by Dan McCoy View Post

      If you want to continue to grow your business, memorize these words - Scalable and Repeatable.

      It is neither scalable nor repeatable for you to learn to write copy yourself. Even if you turn into the very best in the world, which is very, very unlikely and would take an extremely dedicated effort for several decades, you would still be limited by the clock. There are only 24 hours in a day.

      Scalable - Hiring others to do the work is how a business grows. None of us can succeed alone. We simply MUST leverage the work of other competent people. If it is someone's drive in life to be a great copywriter, then hire THEM to do it for you. Even a mediocre writer who is doing what they love will do a far better job than you if writing is not your passion.

      Repeatable - If you can find one competent writer, you can find more. Don't build your business on a foundation that requires you to be like Atlas and hold it all up. Start, right from day one, building a foundation that you can stand upon and build upon and guide the workers in the labor.

      Doing it yourself FEELS (at first) like the less risky way of going about it. The truth is, learning to do it all yourself is one of the most risky things you can do. You are only one mishap away from financial ruin. I have seen the effects this can have on a person. One day you have it all - a year later you are a broke, divorced, alcoholic with no friends.

      The least risky investment you can make is in other people and the distribution of labor. Don't do it yourself. Find someone who loves to do it, and pay them.

      This is great advice.

      A few points I think I should make:

      1. You should build the business you want with the lifestyle you want.

      If you want a small business that makes you a good income and you want
      to do copywriting yourself then go with that.

      If you want a huge business with a huge income then you're probably going
      to have to outsource.


      2. Ultimately I don't hire people to do things at all. At a certain point that
      reaches a scaling limit to.

      I simply pass the entire project onto someone who I know can do the job
      and take a percentage of any fee they charge.

      That's a model that matches the level of effort I'm willing to put into
      a client I don't want to work with personally (specifically I'm not willing
      to put ANY effort into a client like that at all so I pass the work on).


      So that puts me at both ends of the extreme...doing the work myself
      or passing it on for a percentage of the fees.

      But other business models make a lot more sense for other people.

      It really depends on what you want out of your business and your
      life.

      The wonderful thing about selling your services to brick and mortar
      businesses is that you can build the kind of business and lifestyle
      you want.

      It's your choice.

      Kindest regards,
      Andrew Cavanagh
      Signature
      Old School Copy Like This Is BACK & Converting Like Crazy!
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      • Profile picture of the author benbro
        Originally Posted by AndrewCavanagh View Post

        I do most of the copy for clients but...and this is REALLY important...I don't call it
        copywriting.

        Most local business owners have no idea of the value of good sales copy so I
        sell a sales letter or a lead generating report etc etc.

        And educate them on why it's important and the potential dollar value to them
        of the solution.


        There are a whole pile of different ways to help a business using copy but the
        mistake many copywriters make is in trying to sell copywriting services instead
        of selling solutions that can make the business real sales and profits.

        Kindest regards,
        Andrew Cavanagh
        Great point, Andrew. I have already started thinking of ways to get around using that word to clients. So far the best I've come up with is sales writing or sales driven content. And of course, the term sales copy is somewhat common place too.

        Originally Posted by hbteos234 View Post

        I too have been writing my own copy but recently starting to understand that perhaps hiring it out may make more sense. The variable that I am completely not sure about though is the cost. What are we taking about for copywriting? is it tens, hundreds or thousands?
        I had that same question at first. I have seen a few here on the wf in the high hundreds but as HB234 said most seem to be above that threshold.

        Originally Posted by Dan McCoy View Post

        If you want to continue to grow your business, memorize these words - Scalable and Repeatable.

        It is neither scalable nor repeatable for you to learn to write copy yourself. Even if you turn into the very best in the world, which is very, very unlikely and would take an extremely dedicated effort for several decades, you would still be limited by the clock. There are only 24 hours in a day.

        Scalable - Hiring others to do the work is how a business grows. None of us can succeed alone. We simply MUST leverage the work of other competent people. If it is someone's drive in life to be a great copywriter, then hire THEM to do it for you. Even a mediocre writer who is doing what they love will do a far better job than you if writing is not your passion.

        Repeatable - If you can find one competent writer, you can find more. Don't build your business on a foundation that requires you to be like Atlas and hold it all up. Start, right from day one, building a foundation that you can stand upon and build upon and guide the workers in the labor.

        Doing it yourself FEELS (at first) like the less risky way of going about it. The truth is, learning to do it all yourself is one of the most risky things you can do. You are only one mishap away from financial ruin. I have seen the effects this can have on a person. One day you have it all - a year later you are a broke, divorced, alcoholic with no friends.

        The least risky investment you can make is in other people and the distribution of labor. Don't do it yourself. Find someone who loves to do it, and pay them.
        Hey Dan, I like how you put it. Makes an awful lot of sense to me. Thanks for sharing!

        Originally Posted by Cobaki View Post

        I think it's better if you hire your copywriter. There are many offering these services at reasonable prices if you just know where to look. I find it more efficient compared to doing it all on your own. I am not really an expert on this but based on the comments of others, I feel more comfortable of hiring one.
        I appreciate it Cobaki. Guess I will have to get in the habit of always looking out for good copywriters who are also very reasonable. Thanks!

        Originally Posted by AndrewCavanagh View Post

        This is great advice.

        A few points I think I should make:

        1. You should build the business you want with the lifestyle you want.

        If you want a small business that makes you a good income and you want
        to do copywriting yourself then go with that.

        If you want a huge business with a huge income then you're probably going
        to have to outsource.


        2. Ultimately I don't hire people to do things at all. At a certain point that
        reaches a scaling limit to.

        I simply pass the entire project onto someone who I know can do the job
        and take a percentage of any fee they charge.

        That's a model that matches the level of effort I'm willing to put into
        a client I don't want to work with personally (specifically I'm not willing
        to put ANY effort into a client like that at all so I pass the work on).


        So that puts me at both ends of the extreme...doing the work myself
        or passing it on for a percentage of the fees.

        But other business models make a lot more sense for other people.

        It really depends on what you want out of your business and your
        life.

        The wonderful thing about selling your services to brick and mortar
        businesses is that you can build the kind of business and lifestyle
        you want.

        It's your choice.

        Kindest regards,
        Andrew Cavanagh
        Hi Andrew, I could see how what you said about passing entire projects on and collecting a fee could apply to copywriting. The only part I wonder about is will they be inclined to balk at a several thousand dollar copywriting quote when my entire service package is less than that. How do you get around that (assuming that the copywriting costs more than your marketing services)?
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        "Everything you can imagine is real." – Pablo Picasso

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        • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
          Originally Posted by benbro View Post

          Hi Andrew, I could see how what you said about passing entire projects on and collecting a fee could apply to copywriting. The only part I wonder about is will they be inclined to balk at a several thousand dollar copywriting quote when my entire service package is less than that. How do you get around that (assuming that the copywriting costs more than your marketing services)?
          I would like to but I rarely refer on copywriting clients because
          the specialized nature of it means if they're ready to hire me
          there's probably no one else I can really recommend to them.

          But if someone is willing to pay thousands of dollars for copywriting
          they already know what they want generally speaking...they're
          marketers who understand the value of copy and they have a
          budget.


          On the other hand if it's a business looking for help to make more
          sales and profits then I'm never talking about copywriting and the
          people I would pass the project onto aren't talking about that
          either.

          They're talking about implementing strategies that can bring in
          more sales and profits (even if they are actually mainly copy
          based like lead generating reports, email follow up and sales
          copy online).

          I hope that makes it more clear.

          Kindest regards,
          Andrew Cavanagh
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          Old School Copy Like This Is BACK & Converting Like Crazy!
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